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Stipulations:

Standard Comic Vs. forum combat rules (i.e., .5 km starting distance at beginning of battle, "general knowledge of opponent" stips, etc.).

Sauron is in physical form.

All Star Wars characters are armed with light sabers.

Battle takes place in the Arena from Attack of the Clones (with the arena being proportionately enlarged to allow for the .5 km starting distance).

Discuss.

Team Sauron wins.

Oh, and one more stipulation, which should really go without saying:

This is movie incarnarions only. No book feats are admissable for any character.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
Oh, and one more stipulation, which should really go without saying:

This is movie incarnarions only. No book feats are admissable for any character. Who wins, delph ?

Force-speed + battle-precog = a decapitated witch king (by yoda), Sarumon(by Palpatine) and Sauron(by Vader).

Though Vader make opt to just crush Sauron via the Force, if it's the slower suited Vader.

Originally posted by Robtard
Force-speed + battle-precog = a decapitated witch king (by yoda), Sarumon(by Palpatine) and Sauron(by Vader).

Though Vader make opt to just crush Sauron via the Force, if it's the slower suited Vader. The Witch King destroys their light sabers via the same way he destroyed Gandalf's staff. Saruman tks them all over the place and Sauron swings his mace which equals end game.

Originally posted by quanchi112
The Witch King destroys their light sabers via the same way he destroyed Gandalf's staff. Saruman tks them all over the place and Sauron swings his mace which equals end game.

Witch King can't react faster than any of the Force-users. Lighsabres are technology, they're not magical; so there is no precedent in the Witch King doing this.

Sarumon can't react faster than any of the Force-users. Force team senses some TK attack (due to battle-procog); they can Force-push/pull/crush him first.

Sauron can't react faster than any of the Force-users. Vader could be crushing him like a tin-can .5 seconds after the fight starts.

Speed and precog win.

Originally posted by Robtard
Witch King can't react faster than any of the Force-users. Lighsabres are technology, they're not magical; so there is no precedent in the Witch King doing this.

Sarumon can't react faster than any of the Force-users. Force team senses some TK attack (due to battle-procog); they can Force-push/pull/crush him first.

Sauron can't react faster than any of the Force-users. Vader could be crushing him like a tin-can .5 seconds after the fight starts.

Speed and precog win. Since when was it proven the Witch King can only do so to magical materials. The staff was physical and was destroyed so is the handle of the light saber.

Yes, he can. Palpatine showed Yoda's poor reflexes when he slowly raised his hand and blasted him before he could get his hands up in defense. Saruman tk's him all over the place.

Sauron invokes fear in his enemies and swings his mace. It isn't hard to see that these guys go down in epic fashion. Sauron is simply too powerful for these thee especially considering he has the Witch King and Saruman backing him along with their abilities.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Since when was it proven the Witch King can only do so to magical materials. The staff was physical and was destroyed so is the handle of the light saber.

Yes, he can. Palpatine showed Yoda's poor reflexes when he slowly raised his hand and blasted him before he could get his hands up in defense. Saruman tk's him all over the place.

Sauron invokes fear in his enemies and swings his mace. It isn't hard to see that these guys go down in epic fashion. Sauron is simply too powerful for these thee especially considering he has the Witch King and Saruman backing him along with their abilities.

Considering he's never exploded anything else and Gandalf was trying to use the stave's magic against him when he did, it's on you to show WK can destroy anything with a scream. Go. Also, Jedi/Sith can react/attack first.

No, one poor showing doesn't dispel the countless showing of Jedi/Sith reaction-time and battle-precog.

Sauron gets crushed in his armor by Vader before he can do anything of worth.

You're to LoTR what RJ was to Harry Potter. At least you choose to fanboy something that's great, I'll give you that.

Not to mention that the futuristic space materials that Lightsabers are made of would be quite a bit harder to explode than the wood of Gandalfs staff.

Originally posted by Robtard
Considering he's never exploded anything else and Gandalf was trying to use the stave's magic against him when he did, it's on you to show WK can destroy anything with a scream. Go. Also, Jedi/Sith can react/attack first.

No, one poor showing doesn't dispel the countless showing of Jedi/Sith reaction-time and battle-precog.

Sauron gets crushed in his armor by Vader before he can do anything of worth.

You're to LoTR what RJ was to Harry Potter. At least you choose to fanboy something that's great, I'll give you that. With limited screen time all you need to show is it occurring once. It was made of physical material just like a lightsaber. There's no precedent it needs to be magical.

I never claimed it did but these three have the powers to negate their skill.

Sauron would dominate Vader or any sith. They'd likely be in awe of his presence like the alliance was. The ring would seduce any sith and easily.

I miss Rj. It's a shame because I'm on a movie kick now so my time here will be short but intense. Originally posted by Nephthys
Not to mention that the futuristic space materials that Lightsabers are made of would be quite a bit harder to explode than the wood of Gandalfs staff. The Balrog wasn't able to destroy Gandalf's staff and he was pretty powerful wouldn't you say ?

When did the Balrog try and fail to break his staff?

Originally posted by Nephthys
When did the Balrog try and fail to break his staff? The staff was resisting his attacks so if he could have broken it he would have.

Originally posted by quanchi112
With limited screen time all you need to show is it occurring once. It was made of physical material just like a lightsaber. There's no precedent it needs to be magical.

I never claimed it did but these three have the powers to negate their skill.

Sauron would dominate Vader or any sith. They'd likely be in awe of his presence like the alliance was. The ring would seduce any sith and easily.


He exploded a magical bit of wood; that's it. Evening saying that the Witch King can explode anything (he can't), he's still slower. Any of the three will sense his scream before it happens and he'll have his helmet crushed around his invisible face.

They don't have the speed though and the "power" is debatable.

Sauron gets crushed in his armor. After he's dead or left all gimpy like, a Sith would likely take the ring; maybe a weaker-willed Jedi. But that's not what this thread is about.

Originally posted by quanchi112
The staff was resisting his attacks so if he could have broken it he would have.


No that was his magic. Fail harder plz!

Originally posted by Robtard
He exploded a magical bit of wood; that's it. Evening saying that the Witch King can explode anything (he can't), he's still slower. Any of the three will sense his scream before it happens and he'll have his helmet crushed around his invisible face.

They don't have the speed though and the "power" is debatable.

Sauron gets crushed in his armor. After he's dead or left all gimpy like, a Sith would likely take the ring; maybe a weaker-willed Jedi. But that's not what this thread is about. Yoda didn't sense Palpatine's slow raising hand attack. Obi didn't sense Darth Maul's tk push.

I don't think the lightsaber can kill an undead wraith especially considering there are no females in the thread.

They don't need the speed when far slower attacks have hit Yoda and caught Obi unaware. They have the means to do so.

I don't think minus a ring or finger loss they can easily destroy sauron since the Nazgul were so hard to kill and they are far weaker than Sauron with the master ring.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No that was his magic. Fail harder plz! So the Balrog attacking Gandalf who had his staff isn't proof he was unable to destroy his staff ? LOL.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So the Balrog attacking Gandalf who had his staff isn't proof he was unable to destroy his staff ? LOL.

What?

He didn't try to destroy his staff. He swung at him with his sword and Gandalf blocked it with a magic bubble.

44kBN340vd4

Obviously the Balrog just doesn't have the ability that the Witch King used to destroy it. Hell, the Balrog doesn't even use magic in the movies.


Now prove that the Witch King can make their lightsabers explode given that they're harder and more durable than Gandalfs pussy-ass staff. And that he can do this before getting a lightsaber shoved through his forehead. Aragorn beat his ass with a buggering torch, imagine how effective a Lightsaber will be against him.

Gandalf blocked the Balrog's attack with the power of Glamdring, his sword, and his magic.

The Sith win this.

Force grab weapons, Force lightning, Force choke, and then light saber hack & slash. Precog is the winning factor here.

Also, the Sith would be anything but intimidated by Sauron's presence. The Isildur used the sword Narsil to cut off Sauron's fingers, while wearing battle "Sauron" body armor, so the light sabers would do more damage by far.

Originally posted by Nephthys
What?

He didn't try to destroy his staff. He swung at him with his sword and Gandalf blocked it with a magic bubble.

44kBN340vd4

Obviously the Balrog just doesn't have the ability that the Witch King used to destroy it. Hell, the Balrog doesn't even use magic in the movies.


Now prove that the Witch King can make their lightsabers explode given that they're harder and more durable than Gandalfs pussy-ass staff. And that he can do this before getting a lightsaber shoved through his forehead. Aragorn beat his ass with a buggering torch, imagine how effective a Lightsaber will be against him. Yes, Gandalf resisted his attack with his staff which was right in front of the Balrog. Acting as if he could have destroyed it when his magic was resisting his fire attacks is just plain reaching.

The Balrog is a very powerful being who despite all his power can't just negate his staff which shows you how formidable the Witch King really is.

So you feel the material which comprises the handle is too hard for the Witch King to destroy ? You're just plain reaching you can disagree all you want but I know deep down you agree with me. You either believe it or you don't we both watched each scene so acting like there's more hidden proof when you just really want the star wars characters to win is silly.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, Gandalf resisted his attack with his staff which was right in front of the Balrog. Acting as if he could have destroyed it when his magic was resisting his fire attacks is just plain reaching.

The Balrog is a very powerful being who despite all his power can't just negate his staff which shows you how formidable the Witch King really is.

So you feel the material which comprises the handle is too hard for the Witch King to destroy ? You're just plain reaching you can disagree all you want but I know deep down you agree with me. You either believe it or you don't we both watched each scene so acting like there's more hidden proof when you just really want the star wars characters to win is silly.

No he didn't. He used his magic, and by the looks of it Gladring, as Impediment said. Watch the scene again and you can clearly see that Gandalf is holding up his right hand to block the attack, which is his swordhand. The Balrog never attacked or did anything to his staff. Acting like his staff is uber because the Balrog didn't break it is insane because it never tried to. Stop being insane Quan.

The Balrog never uses magic. The comparison fails. End of.

How is that reaching? Star Wars materials are hundreds of thousands of times harder than steel. You think the Witch King can shatter the lightsabers? Fvcking prove it. But of course you won't. I look forward to you dodging the issue in your reply. It should be fun reading.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No he didn't. He used his magic, and by the looks of it Gladring, as Impediment said. Watch the scene again and you can clearly see that Gandalf is holding up his right hand to block the attack, which is his swordhand. The Balrog never attacked or did anything to his staff. Acting like his staff is uber because the Balrog didn't break it is insane because it never tried to. Stop being insane Quan.

The Balrog never uses magic. The comparison fails. End of.

How is that reaching? Star Wars materials are hundreds of thousands of times harder than steel. You think the Witch King can shatter the lightsabers? Fvcking prove it. But of course you won't. I look forward to you dodging the issue in your reply. It should be fun reading. Yes, due to the magic being used by the staff the staff didn't break. If Balrog could break his staff while magic is being used he would have done so. Breaking the staff while using magic is quite a feat and this is proof of it. The Balrog is far me powerful than any jedi with a lightsaber. Far more powerful because it's a more powerful universe due to magic.

Balrog uses power which fails against the staff. Boom.

Do you think the star wars handles can resist an attack from the Balrog while not breaking ?

Can't wait to hear you sidestep this question.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, due to the magic being used by the staff the staff didn't break. If Balrog could break his staff while magic is being used he would have done so. Breaking the staff while using magic is quite a feat and this is proof of it. The Balrog is far me powerful than any jedi with a lightsaber. Far more powerful because it's a more powerful universe due to magic.

Balrog uses power which fails against the staff. Boom.

Do you think the star wars handles can resist an attack from the Balrog while not breaking ?

Can't wait to hear you sidestep this question.

Why would the staff break? Nothing is being done to it you dolt! The attack only hits the shield. The staff doesn't even come into play.

No he doesn't. No it doesn't. Un-Boom.

Yes. Easily.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Why would the staff break? Nothing is being done to it you dolt! The attack only hits the shield. The staff doesn't even come into play.

No he doesn't. No it doesn't. Un-Boom.

Yes. Easily. The staff is causng the magic the resistance so while using magic isn't very durable but not when the Witch King wants to you know break it. Point proven and victory.

The staff's magic is superior to balrog's power in that it resists. I'm right as rain.


So the handle can resist the power of the Balrog based on it surviving what ?

Those sabre handles are durable, in EP3 Obi Wan's did survive a long fall.

Not saying they'd survive a Balrog's fire sword should it come to a direct hit(it wouldn't), but they're definitely more durable than Sauron's gauntlet/fingers.

Originally posted by Robtard
Those sabre handles are durable, in EP3 Obi Wan's did survive a long fall.

Not saying they'd survive a Balrog's fire sword should it come to a direct hit(it wouldn't), but they're definitely more durable than Sauron's gauntlet/fingers. So did Yoda but he isn't durable enough to resist a balrog's attacks.

That sword would slice off Yoda's fingers or Palpatine's as well.

Originally posted by quanchi112
The staff is causng the magic the resistance so while using magic isn't very durable but not when the Witch King wants to you know break it. Point proven and victory.

The staff's magic is superior to balrog's power in that it resists. I'm right as rain.


So the handle can resist the power of the Balrog based on it surviving what ?

No, Gandalf is causing the magic obviously. Just because the staff starts to glow doesn't means its doing anything. Also lol, learn 2 spell noob. I can't even understand the rest of this sentence. Magic isn't very durable? But not when the Witch King wants to break it? Wtf?

Gandalfs magic stops the attack. But as I said its completely irrelevent. The Balrog attacked him with his sword. The Witch King attacked him with magic. The two attacks are completely different.

It can emit enough heat to melt foot-thick blast doors without damage and its made from materials hundreds of thousands of times harder than steel. I call this a no-brainer.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So did Yoda but he isn't durable enough to resist a balrog's attacks.

That sword would slice off Yoda's fingers or Palpatine's as well.

A Balrog would never hit someone as small, fast and agile as Yoda, so it's an irrelevant statement.

Place Yoda or Palpatine in the Balrog scene; either of them force-push the Balrog off the bridge or outright destroy the bridge by using some ruble from the wall/ceiling. No need for fancy theatrics.

Plus how much cutting force or impact does the Balrog's sword really have? The Balrog isn't even that strong. It smacks Gandalf multiple times while they're falling and the frail old man just shrugs it off. Color me unimpressed.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Since when was it proven the Witch King can only do so to magical materials.

Read this thread for why that line of reasoning is lame.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=13209976


But, for an even better reason why the Witch King can't explode stuff beyond the magical staff's of other wizards:

Originally posted by dadudemon
And, Gandalf's Magical Staff seemed to "magically" reform itself for his Mithlond appearance, which occured many minutes later. Now, this is mostly baseless, but we can be more correct in assuming that the Witch King can only explode the magical staff of weaker wizards, but not anything else. That's about as far of a conclusion that we can make. Anything beyond that will net you contradictions such as: why didn't he "explode" other things...especially in the battle that he DIED.

And this:

Originally posted by dadudemon
The only thing, ever, that he explodes is Gandalf's staff: a magical artifact directly tied to the Wizard. We could say "movie feats" only and say he can only explode Gandalf's staff. However, I don't like that. I would rather say that it's "magic vs. magic" and conclude that it shows that the Witch King had greater magical ability and their clash of wills showed the destruction of the symbol of Gandalf's magic.




Originally posted by Nephthys
Star Wars materials are hundreds of thousands of times harder than steel.

Prove that using only the movies or movie commentary.

Well, I never thought I would see another LOTR fanboy here. To bad your on the wrong side man. It jsut isnt feasible for any of them to beat one of the Sith or Yoda.

Learn a bit about Star Wars please. The Yoda thing with lightning, it was the greatest jedi of the time against the greatest sith ever. They both screw with each others precog. And the Obi-Wan part? Not related, but it was a padawan vs a sith lord.

As it is, team SW wins, LOTR loses badly. Oh, and the prophecy on the WK? Yeah, debated to hell.

Originally posted by Pwned
As it is, team SW wins, LOTR loses badly. Oh, and the prophecy on the WK? Yeah, debated to hell.



Good times..and one of the reasons I started liking you as a poster.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Prove that using only the movies or movie commentary.

Various sourcebooks on the movies have entries on the materials used in SW.

The Witch King and all his boys get their shit rocked and scared off by an unshaven man with a torch (Who also jams said torch into Witch King's face, leaving the WK an arm-flailing pussy), and he gets killed by a midget and a woman, who while admittedly is a good fighter, is no Sith or Jedi.

Saruman gets punked by Gandalf, and gets stabbed in the back by Grima Wormtongue. Oh, and he got his shit wrecked by walking trees.

Sauron gets laid low by a broken sword wielded by an injured man.

Lol.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No, Gandalf is causing the magic obviously. Just because the staff starts to glow doesn't means its doing anything. Also lol, learn 2 spell noob. I can't even understand the rest of this sentence. Magic isn't very durable? But not when the Witch King wants to break it? Wtf?

Gandalfs magic stops the attack. But as I said its completely irrelevent. The Balrog attacked him with his sword. The Witch King attacked him with magic. The two attacks are completely different.

It can emit enough heat to melt foot-thick blast doors without damage and its made from materials hundreds of thousands of times harder than steel. I call this a no-brainer. So a staff glowing is just for what a lighting effect ? I get it you are really emotionally invested as a long time star wars fan in the outcome of the thread but at least be honest with me. The point is Witch King's magic is enough to overcome Gandalf's magic while the Balrog's power isn't enough to do so. If you point the Death Star at Gandalf he isn't warding off the effect due to the power. Get it ?


So you feel that a light saber can't even break the handle since the energy is coming through it ? This is just getting plain sad. I guess a torch can't burn another torch as it's already burning and thus immune to fire.

Originally posted by Robtard
A Balrog would never hit someone as small, fast and agile as Yoda, so it's an irrelevant statement.

Place Yoda or Palpatine in the Balrog scene; either of them force-push the Balrog off the bridge or outright destroy the bridge by using some ruble from the wall/ceiling. No need for fancy theatrics. I'm not saying it would happen I am asking if it did happen would the handle survive intact ? You know I am right so just admit it.

Yoda can't easily force push the Balrog and he'd still catch Yoda on the way down with his fire whip. Yoda stood there like a jackass just resisting the material Dooku tossed at Obi and Anakin. Balrog unlike inanimate objects is going to resist.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Read this thread for why that line of reasoning is lame.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=13209976


But, for an even better reason why the Witch King can't explode stuff beyond the magical staff's of other wizards:



And this:








Prove that using only the movies or movie commentary. Wrong. We see he destroyed his weapon due to his magic/power so to assume it's only due to the tie in of some sort of magical willpower thing without any proof is baseless indeed. A lightsaber gets just broken. Accept it.

Originally posted by Pwned
Well, I never thought I would see another LOTR fanboy here. To bad your on the wrong side man. It jsut isnt feasible for any of them to beat one of the Sith or Yoda.

Learn a bit about Star Wars please. The Yoda thing with lightning, it was the greatest jedi of the time against the greatest sith ever. They both screw with each others precog. And the Obi-Wan part? Not related, but it was a padawan vs a sith lord.

As it is, team SW wins, LOTR loses badly. Oh, and the prophecy on the WK? Yeah, debated to hell. Palpatine slowly raises his hand and then blasts Yoda. You don't need precog to understand what he is doing. Yoda was stupid and was caught off guard by one of the most telegraphed and slow attacks ever on screen.


Originally posted by NemeBro
The Witch King and all his boys get their shit rocked and scared off by an unshaven man with a torch (Who also jams said torch into Witch King's face, leaving the WK an arm-flailing pussy), and he gets killed by a midget and a woman, who while admittedly is a good fighter, is no Sith or Jedi.

Saruman gets punked by Gandalf, and gets stabbed in the back by Grima Wormtongue. Oh, and he got his shit wrecked by walking trees.

Sauron gets laid low by a broken sword wielded by an injured man.

Lol. Getting stabbed in the back while dominating your opponent means you were caught off guard. None of the sith or jedi here are females so looks like they can't kill the Witch King. Whoops.

Cutting off a finger is how he was defeated which was a lucky strike he wasn't beaten in combat like Palpatine was by Windu nor did he even die. The ring would corrupt Palpatine and Vader to the tune of them becoming Gollums themselves in time. Palpatine nor Vader's will approaches Sauron's.


Sauron only has to swing his mace in their general direction while no one can kill or defeat the Witch King here.

Since my post was ignored:

Originally posted by Impediment
Gandalf blocked the Balrog's attack with the power of Glamdring, his sword, and his magic.

The Sith win this.

Force grab weapons, Force lightning, Force choke, and then light saber hack & slash. Precog is the winning factor here.

Also, the Sith would be anything but intimidated by Sauron's presence. The Isildur used the sword Narsil to cut off Sauron's fingers, while wearing battle "Sauron" body armor, so the light sabers would do more damage by far.





Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, due to the magic being used by the staff the staff didn't break. If Balrog could break his staff while magic is being used he would have done so. Breaking the staff while using magic is quite a feat and this is proof of it. The Balrog is far me powerful than any jedi with a lightsaber. Far more powerful because it's a more powerful universe due to magic.

Balrog uses power which fails against the staff. Boom.

Do you think the star wars handles can resist an attack from the Balrog while not breaking ?

Can't wait to hear you sidestep this question.

The fact that the LOTR universe utilizes magic proves nothing as to who is stronger.

Gandalf's source of magic is not, nor has it ever been, his staff. His staff is merely a conduit for his magic. The fact that Gandalf survived the fall from the Bridge of Khazad-dum, chased the Balrog from the depths of Moria to the highest heights of the mountain, fought the Balrog for two days, and then summoned lightning to power Glamdring to make the kill, without his staff, proves that he, not a stick, is magic. Gandalf is a mystical being, almost like an angel.

If anything, the handles to a light saber would not break due to a blow from the Balrog's fire sword, rather the grip of the Jedi/Sith holding it would.





However, since the Balrog is not even in this fight, let's stick with the fighters at hand, shall we?

Originally posted by Impediment
Since my post was ignored:









The fact that the LOTR universe utilizes magic proves nothing as to who is stronger.

Gandalf's source of magic is not, nor has it ever been, his staff. His staff is merely a conduit for his magic. The fact that Gandalf survived the fall from the Bridge of Khazad-dum, chased the Balrog from the depths of Moria to the highest heights of the mountain, fought the Balrog for two days, and then summoned lightning to power Glamdring to make the kill, without his staff, proves that he, not a stick, is magic. Gandalf is a mystical being, almost like an angel.

If anything, the handles to a light saber would not break due to a blow from the Balrog's fire sword, rather the grip of the Jedi/Sith holding it would.





However, since the Balrog is not even in this fight, let's stick with the fighters at hand, shall we? Yes, I know the magic doesn't completely reside in his staff but more or less him. My point was Gandalf's conduit wasn't able to be destroyed despite the Balrog's power. That says something about how powerful gandalf's magic is.

I disagree about a handle surviving from the power of the Balrog. Look at the size and what he was capable of. Collateral damage alone just look at his sheer weight and imagine the amount of force he brings to bear.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Getting stabbed in the back while dominating your opponent means you were caught off guard. None of the sith or jedi here are females so looks like they can't kill the Witch King. Whoops.

Cutting off a finger is how he was defeated which was a lucky strike he wasn't beaten in combat like Palpatine was by Windu nor did he even die. The ring would corrupt Palpatine and Vader to the tune of them becoming Gollums themselves in time. Palpatine nor Vader's will approaches Sauron's.


Sauron only has to swing his mace in their general direction while no one can kill or defeat the Witch King here. 1. The Witch King can clearly be wounded. And he can be made to run away like a pussy by a torch, since he is weak to fire and heat. What does a lightsbaer emanate Quan?

2. He was beaten in combat because he's an idiot. Palpatine, corrupted? Fat chance. The One Ring has nothing to offer him, Palpatine wields a Force (Kekeke) far greater than it. And that's an irrelevant point you're bringing up to support your shitcake of an argument. Palpatine or Vader or Yoda effortlessly crush Sauron. What happens after is irrelevant.

3. Yoda, Sauron, or Vader only have to make a gesture in Sauron's general direction to crush his wrist and separate the ring from him. Oh, and Yoda is not a man of woman born either.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Various sourcebooks on the movies have entries on the materials used in SW.

That's what I thought. You don't have anything that can be used in the MVF.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Wrong. We see he destroyed his weapon due to his magic/power so to assume it's only due to the tie in of some sort of magical willpower thing without any proof is baseless indeed. A lightsaber gets just broken. Accept it.

The burden of proof is on you to prove that it works on things other than other magical beings doing a battle of wills.


Since I clearly proved that line of reasoning wrong (you just have to read a bit further in the same post you quoted my quote from), it's a futile attempt on your part.

Originally posted by NemeBro
1. The Witch King can clearly be wounded. And he can be made to run away like a pussy by a torch, since he is weak to fire and heat. What does a lightsbaer emanate Quan?

2. He was beaten in combat because he's an idiot. Palpatine, corrupted? Fat chance. The One Ring has nothing to offer him, Palpatine wields a Force (Kekeke) far greater than it. And that's an irrelevant point you're bringing up to support your shitcake of an argument. Palpatine or Vader or Yoda effortlessly crush Sauron. What happens after is irrelevant.

3. Yoda, Sauron, or Vader only have to make a gesture in Sauron's general direction to crush his wrist and separate the ring from him. Oh, and Yoda is not a man of woman born either. 1. A saber isn't fire itself so I don't see it causing the level of fear from the Nazgul as a open flame does. Jedi aren't being burned in close proximity if a saber is almost at your skin.

2.A lucky strike is a lucky strike. Palpatine was actually tactically disarmed which is a legit win over him. No luck to it Windu was simply better. Palpatine is corrupted already so why wouldn't he lust after an object of great power ? He's obsessed with power so this would play right into his hands I mean Gandalf feared his reactions and he's a man of morals and good judgment unlike Palpatine who is all about himself. Sauron could defeat them in a group. He's on another level.

3.They don't run around crushing people's wrists I mean why not do so to every non jedi/sith. It's just another desperate tactic when he knows he's beaten to make stuff up.

Originally posted by dadudemon
That's what I thought. You don't have anything that can be used in the MVF.



The burden of proof is on you to prove that it works on things other than other magical beings doing a battle of wills.


Since I clearly proved that line of reasoning wrong (you just have to read a bit further in the same post you quoted my quote from), it's a futile attempt on your part. You have to prove it worked due to being magic only through a battle of wills. You made the claim not me.

Well, of the Balrog hit the hilt then I would concede that the casing might be damaged or even destroyed. However, I think that is entirely unlikely to happen, since all three Force users are Master level. I think they'd know better

Originally posted by quanchi112
You have to prove it worked due to being magic only through a battle of wills. You made the claim not me.

And I did prove it.


Do you really want me to requote myself a second time (cause that's rude to do...on my part).

Originally posted by quanchi112
1. A saber isn't fire itself so I don't see it causing the level of fear from the Nazgul as a open flame does. Jedi aren't being burned in close proximity if a saber is almost at your skin.

2.A lucky strike is a lucky strike. Palpatine was actually tactically disarmed which is a legit win over him. No luck to it Windu was simply better. Palpatine is corrupted already so why wouldn't he lust after an object of great power ? He's obsessed with power so this would play right into his hands I mean Gandalf feared his reactions and he's a man of morals and good judgment unlike Palpatine who is all about himself. Sauron could defeat them in a group. He's on another level.

3.They don't run around crushing people's wrists I mean why not do so to every non jedi/sith. It's just another desperate tactic when he knows he's beaten to make stuff up. 1. I'm sorry, are you under the impression that torch>lightsaber? Lightsaber slashes at WK, WK is burned, WK runs away crying. Lightsabers can melt through reinforced blast doors far harder than steel. It's like comparing a bon-fire to a welding torch, only in this case the welding torch is much, much hotter.

2. "Luck" implies it wasn't due to the skill or lack of skill of the opponents present that it happened. If during a UFC fight, your opponent rushes towards you flapping his arms and yelling like an idiot, exposing his chin, it isn't luck that allowed you to down with with a blow to the chin. It was your opponent being a dumbass. And Windu would beat the shit out of Sauron too, so I don't see your point. Sidious also beat Yoda. Because relative to Star Wars the One Ring is not an object of great power. Mind control? Ability to command vast armies? All this Palpatine has already. Sauron is a pussy in comparison, he is in slow motion when compared to their speed. You haven't proved shit, as usual.

3. Mace kind of did crush Grievous' ribcage, hence the hacking cough in the films. And they don't do that to the Sith and Jedi because they can defend against it with the Force.

Originally posted by NemeBro
3. Mace kind of did crush Grievous' ribcage, hence the hacking cough in the films. And they don't do that to the Sith and Jedi because they can defend against it with the Force.

We went through that, already, back in '09. We can't use that feat because it is not a movie feat. In the AVF, we could...

Even then it's dubious at best. First, Grievous has his cough well before then. Secondly, there are quotes indicating that the force abilites in the show are exagerated. And finally, it doesn't fit into the narrative of Labrynth of Evil.

Originally posted by dadudemon
We went through that, already, back in '09. We can't use that feat because it is not a movie feat. In the AVF, we could... I was under the impression that it tied into the movie, so it could be used.

But whatever. It's a stupid rule.

Originally posted by NemeBro
I was under the impression that it tied into the movie, so it could be used.

But whatever. It's a stupid rule. It was retconned anyway. The new CGI series shows that Greivous' had the cough even before Mace crushed his chest.

Not that matters. More than enough evidence is shown in the movies that proves a Jedi is capable of crushing a chest/larynx etc.

All I really got out of what you said is that the CGI series is ****ing garbage.

Aye, it sucks.

I remember when Grievous was pretty badass.

Such times have been long forgotten it seems.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I'm not saying it would happen I am asking if it did happen would the handle survive intact ? You know I am right so just admit it.

Yoda can't easily force push the Balrog and he'd still catch Yoda on the way down with his fire whip. Yoda stood there like a jackass just resisting the material Dooku tossed at Obi and Anakin. Balrog unlike inanimate objects is going to resist.


Which I already said yes to, should the Balrog hit the hilt it would probably break; it's still an irrelevant point. Though the Balrog wasn't able to break Gandalf's sword with his flame-sword, so there is room to argue, but again, it's irrelevant.

Yoda could Push the Balrog off the that narrow bridge, he stopped several tons of rubble that had a large amount of momentum behind it. A rock monster made of smoke and shadow should be easier. Battle-precog allows Yoda to easily avoid the whip.

Instead of side-tracking the thread with irrelevant points, maybe try to prove your side. So far Jedi/Sith > This LoTR crew, rather easily too.

Originally posted by NemeBro
I remember when Grievous was pretty badass.

Such times have been long forgotten it seems.

The times, they are a-changing.

Grievous was only really a bad-ass in the 2003-2005 Star Wars: Clone Wars, correct?

Then again, most everyone was more bad-ass in that series, Mace taking out an army of droids with his fist, Yoda lifting a hill etc.

He was pretty damn good in the EU books as well.

Originally posted by dadudemon
And I did prove it.


Do you really want me to requote myself a second time (cause that's rude to do...on my part). You didn't prove it you threw out a wild theory and expected people to accept it. I am not easily led astray.

Originally posted by NemeBro
1. I'm sorry, are you under the impression that torch>lightsaber? Lightsaber slashes at WK, WK is burned, WK runs away crying. Lightsabers can melt through reinforced blast doors far harder than steel. It's like comparing a bon-fire to a welding torch, only in this case the welding torch is much, much hotter.

2. "Luck" implies it wasn't due to the skill or lack of skill of the opponents present that it happened. If during a UFC fight, your opponent rushes towards you flapping his arms and yelling like an idiot, exposing his chin, it isn't luck that allowed you to down with with a blow to the chin. It was your opponent being a dumbass. And Windu would beat the shit out of Sauron too, so I don't see your point. Sidious also beat Yoda. Because relative to Star Wars the One Ring is not an object of great power. Mind control? Ability to command vast armies? All this Palpatine has already. Sauron is a pussy in comparison, he is in slow motion when compared to their speed. You haven't proved shit, as usual.

3. Mace kind of did crush Grievous' ribcage, hence the hacking cough in the films. And they don't do that to the Sith and Jedi because they can defend against it with the Force. 1. Wrong. The Witch King himself forms a flaming sword and lightsabers while powerful don't emit the heat of a torch. I also don't remember it ever being proven or stated the Witch King was one of the Nazgul driven off in part 1. The torch was to prove a point about the fire not consuming the rest of it just like the lightsaber won't be consumed either.

2.You are comparing a guy losing a few fingers to a ufc fight. First off in the ufc you don't or can't ko ten guys prior to fighting another guy in the same night. Luck implies a one on one fight he has no chance against Sauron which he doesn't. Cry more. Sidious didn't beat Yoda he stalemated him long enough for reinforcements to arrive. Palpatine held the higher ground and the environment also greatly benefited him.

3.Not applicable here. Desperation is running through your veins I see.

Originally posted by Robtard
Which I already said yes to, should the Balrog hit the hilt it would probably break; it's still an irrelevant point. Though the Balrog wasn't able to break Gandalf's sword with his flame-sword, so there is room to argue, but again, it's irrelevant.

Yoda could Push the Balrog off the that narrow bridge, he stopped several tons of rubble that had a large amount of momentum behind it. A rock monster made of smoke and shadow should be easier. Battle-precog allows Yoda to easily avoid the whip.

Instead of side-tracking the thread with irrelevant points, maybe try to prove your side. So far Jedi/Sith > This LoTR crew, rather easily too. Thanks for conceding the point. Victory feels great. Gandalf's magic resisted.

Yoda didn't avoid Palp's blast nor did he see Dooku as he sat there and watched helplessly tk attack his friends. Yoda isn't easily beating the Balrog at all. I myself could see it going either way.


Sauron's power, Saruman's abilities, and the Witch King cannot be killed by a man. That seals the deal.

"lightsabers while powerful don't emit the heat of a torch"

Your trolling/baiting was pretty good for a time, but that right there definitely ruined your game. Sorry, brah.

Originally posted by quanchi112
1. Wrong. The Witch King himself forms a flaming sword and lightsabers while powerful don't emit the heat of a torch. I also don't remember it ever being proven or stated the Witch King was one of the Nazgul driven off in part 1. The torch was to prove a point about the fire not consuming the rest of it just like the lightsaber won't be consumed either.

Gandalf: The Witchking of Angmar. You've met him before. He stabbed Frodo on Weathertop.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Thanks for conceding the point. Victory feels great. Gandalf's magic resisted.

Yoda didn't avoid Palp's blast nor did he see Dooku as he sat there and watched helplessly tk attack his friends. Yoda isn't easily beating the Balrog at all. I myself could see it going either way.


Sauron's power, Saruman's abilities, and the Witch King cannot be killed by a man. That seals the deal.

You already ****ed up by making your baiting/trolling obvious. Game ended, was fun while it lasted.

Originally posted by ares834
Gandalf: The Witchking of Angmar. You've met him before. He stabbed Frodo on Weathertop. I wasn't 100 percent sure. Originally posted by Robtard
You already ****ed up by making your baiting/trolling obvious. Game ended, was fun while it lasted. Not trolling just some trash talking that males tend to do from time to time.

I do tend to debate along with it and it's just my opinion in the end so take it however you will.Originally posted by Robtard
"lightsabers while powerful don't emit the heat of a torch"

Your trolling/baiting was pretty good for a time, but that right there definitely ruined your game. Sorry, brah. Did you even understand my point ? No, of course not you looked for any way to parachute out of this debate. My point is you hold a torch an inch away from someone's face you'll feel the heat and it'll burn you unlike a saber which has to make contact.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Not trolling just some trash talking that males tend to do from time to time.

I do tend to debate along with it and it's just my opinion in the end so take it however you will.

Trolling/baiting can be humorous if done well; not mad at you for it. As I said, was fun while it lasted.

LOL!

Is this Quanchi vs. KMC here? I skim this thread and see everyone else responding to him...bwahaha, go Quan, bad@ss one-man army...

Originally posted by quanchi112
1. Wrong. The Witch King himself forms a flaming sword and lightsabers while powerful don't emit the heat of a torch. I also don't remember it ever being proven or stated the Witch King was one of the Nazgul driven off in part 1. The torch was to prove a point about the fire not consuming the rest of it just like the lightsaber won't be consumed either.

2.You are comparing a guy losing a few fingers to a ufc fight. First off in the ufc you don't or can't ko ten guys prior to fighting another guy in the same night. Luck implies a one on one fight he has no chance against Sauron which he doesn't. Cry more. Sidious didn't beat Yoda he stalemated him long enough for reinforcements to arrive. Palpatine held the higher ground and the environment also greatly benefited him.

3.Not applicable here. Desperation is running through your veins I see. 1. Are you being deliberately obtuse? He ran like a little pussy from a torch. You can't counter that, and you have admirably proven that. And if you paid attention you would know it was the Witch King. A torch sent him screaming. A lightsaber will **** him up.

2. Since losing a few fingers made Sauron lose that fight yes. Sidious made Yoda run away. Yoda himself admitted Sidious was too powerful. He beat him. Stop being an idiot (Though I guess that would be like asking water to stop being wet). Also, I can't help but notice you aren't actually providing reasons why Sauron can win, beyond "he's on another level." Stop posting here, leave my internet, and never come back.

3. Vader crushed a room with the Force in RotS. Crai moar.

Now go.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You didn't prove it you threw out a wild theory and expected people to accept it. I am not easily led astray.

I did not present a "theory" I presented evidence for why he can't just explode random objects.

Counter-argue that point by showing where he explodes anything other than a magical object. Anything.

What you want to do is chalk it up to CIS (that's why he died, if he can explode any object like you're claiming). He didn't explode any object but one magical one in a battle of magical wills.

Originally posted by Robtard
Trolling/baiting can be humorous if done well; not mad at you for it. As I said, was fun while it lasted. My opinion isn't trolling. Originally posted by NemeBro
1. Are you being deliberately obtuse? He ran like a little pussy from a torch. You can't counter that, and you have admirably proven that. And if you paid attention you would know it was the Witch King. A torch sent him screaming. A lightsaber will **** him up.

2. Since losing a few fingers made Sauron lose that fight yes. Sidious made Yoda run away. Yoda himself admitted Sidious was too powerful. He beat him. Stop being an idiot (Though I guess that would be like asking water to stop being wet). Also, I can't help but notice you aren't actually providing reasons why Sauron can win, beyond "he's on another level." Stop posting here, leave my internet, and never come back.

3. Vader crushed a room with the Force in RotS. Crai moar.

Now go. 1. A torch that burned him. The light saber won't set him on fire it will just cut him. The Witch King can just destroy the light saber's handle.

2.So you believe Isildur can defeat Sauron one on one in a forum fight ? You really are lost......Obi Wan Kenobi. Palpatine made him flee after his backup arrived and he bought enough time and distance to do so. Palpatine didn't defeat him he stalemated him. Windu beat Palpatine that's a legit win not your opponent leaving because backup has arrived and you're 400 yards away from your opponent. Sauron's power/his ring all he has to do is swing his mace in the general vicinity and they die. He can defeat them all in one swipe. Watch the fotr if you haven't already.

3.Vader never crushed someone's wrist acting like he can do so when he hasn't isn't a legit debating tactic you already were desperate enough to try to bring in clone wars material.




Originally posted by dadudemon
I did not present a "theory" I presented evidence for why he can't just explode random objects.

Counter-argue that point by showing where he explodes anything other than a magical object. Anything.

What you want to do is chalk it up to CIS (that's why he died, if he can explode any object like you're claiming). He didn't explode any object but one magical one in a battle of magical wills. Your theory is flawed. It's this simple he can destroy an object with magic or nothing backing it up that his magic is superior to. Trying to say it has to be magical without any proof is reaching. Just because he didn't do so doesn't mean he couldn't. We see Gandalf heat Aragorn's sword up which was non magical so I fail to see your point. You are wrong and just because Gandalf didn't heat anyone else's sword up that doesn't mean he couldn't. Do you understand how movies work ?

Originally posted by quanchi112
1. A torch that burned him. The light saber won't set him on fire it will just cut him. The Witch King can just destroy the light saber's handle.

2.So you believe Isildur can defeat Sauron one on one in a forum fight ? You really are lost......Obi Wan Kenobi. Palpatine made him flee after his backup arrived and he bought enough time and distance to do so. Palpatine didn't defeat him he stalemated him. Windu beat Palpatine that's a legit win not your opponent leaving because backup has arrived and you're 400 yards away from your opponent. Sauron's power/his ring all he has to do is swing his mace in the general vicinity and they die. He can defeat them all in one swipe. Watch the fotr if you haven't already.

3.Vader never crushed someone's wrist acting like he can do so when he hasn't isn't a legit debating tactic you already were desperate enough to try to bring in clone wars material. 1.Lightsabers don't "cut," they burn you, they incinerate what they touch. So instead of just getting caught on fire, he will just lose his head.

No, the only things ever to be magically destroyed like that are Wizard's staves. It's meant to represent a superior Wizard destroying a weaker Wizard's power. Show me them just destroying anything else, by all means.

2. I believe he already did. No, Yoda admitted Palpatine was too powerful, and this was after he sent Yoda crashing down hundreds of feet. Yoda admitted he was better, period. I don't give a shit about Windu beating Palpatine, stop bringing up irrelevant details in some futile attempt to distract me. Yoda survived being thrown hundreds of feet to the ground. Which is demonstratably a better durability feat than what Sauron can dish out. Anyone here can defeat Sauron with one gesture.

3. WK never destroyed anyone but a wizard's weapon, stop pretending he can. Vader has crushed the throats of his opponents, why not the wrist? Beyond that, I already proved how much faster the Jedi/Sith are in another thread. Stop.

Please, Quano, your just repeating one thing over and over. Yes, we all know the WK and Sauron are very powerful. The problem is, extended contact to a lightsaber can melt blast doors. And it doesnt even take long, maybe a second and a half. (TPM first scenes, Jinn tries to get into bridge)

WK has no prophetic defence, Sauron is a quite a bit slower than Yoda, and Yoda also fights by jumping all around the place, they will be lucky to catch him.
Vader can choke Saruman without much problem.
Palps has lightning. He just fires it at whoever is left over, and well, LOTR team loses pretty badly. The super-human powers among the SW team are a far cry from the LOTR team. LOTR is mainly song and faith magic, or these guys case, Morgul. (Any fanboy knows what that translates as ;-D)
Its just the speed and range that team SW has that beats LOTR. Dont get me wrong, I wish LOTR could win, and if we could go by books, this would be FAR closer, but we cant.

A si-Dhuath u-orthor. U or le a u or nin.

I couldnt put in the accents, but still

If we could ALL come up with a new argument/rebuttal, it would be nice.

Someone counter this:

Palpatine uses Force lightning on Witch King, creating fire and making WK run around like a pansy and fall off of a cliff.

Vader uses Force hold/crush/grab on Saruman to crush his larynx to prevent spell casting, hold his body at bay or throw it around, and grab his staff to cornhole him with it.

Yoda pulls some G Shit and jumps around like a crack head who drank 10 Red Bulls to dodge Sauron and hack & slash to dismember his hand and the One Ring.

All of the Force users have precog which aids their win.

Originally posted by NemeBro
1.Lightsabers don't "cut," they burn you, they incinerate what they touch. So instead of just getting caught on fire, he will just lose his head.

No, the only things ever to be magically destroyed like that are Wizard's staves. It's meant to represent a superior Wizard destroying a weaker Wizard's power. Show me them just destroying anything else, by all means.

2. I believe he already did. No, Yoda admitted Palpatine was too powerful, and this was after he sent Yoda crashing down hundreds of feet. Yoda admitted he was better, period. I don't give a shit about Windu beating Palpatine, stop bringing up irrelevant details in some futile attempt to distract me. Yoda survived being thrown hundreds of feet to the ground. Which is demonstratably a better durability feat than what Sauron can dish out. Anyone here can defeat Sauron with one gesture.

3. WK never destroyed anyone but a wizard's weapon, stop pretending he can. Vader has crushed the throats of his opponents, why not the wrist? Beyond that, I already proved how much faster the Jedi/Sith are in another thread. Stop. 1. The point is they don't set you ablaze. That still won't kill the Witch King. It was definitely stated no man could do so.

I don't need to. The point is they destroy a wizard's conduit of power in their staff. I already stated gandalf altered Aragorn's sword so acting as if he couldn't destroy it is nonsensical since he's demonstrated the ability to effect a nonmagical sword and destroy magical weapons. 2+2=4.

2.That isn't a forum fight that's Sauron destroying man after man in on brutal war. If you don't know the difference between this how can any further debate be expected of you ? Yoda admitted he failed. being too powerful really doesn't mean much here it's are you skilled enough to defeat your opponent with a saber or not. Yoda was unable to kill Dooku and I feel he always lacked the killer instinct required to finish upper level opponents but that doesn't mean he was outmatched only that he failed in defeating Palpatine with the opportunity he did have.

Gandalf also can fall much further but that doesn't mean he can laugh off a Sauron mace swipe. You are mistaking a lucky fall to his flesh being made of something other than flesh. Being ko'd by Palpatine's lightning also makes him look rather pathetic since no one else has been ko'd by his lightning.

3.Gandalf affected someone's weapon that isn't magical. Claiming mages can only destroy magical weapons when we've seen them affect other non magical weapons is just being dishonest. We both know this to be the case.

Because Vader hasn't done so it isn't in character for him to suddenly start crushing wrists. You need a eat to support this otherwise you're just powerset arguing.

Originally posted by Pwned
Please, Quano, your just repeating one thing over and over. Yes, we all know the WK and Sauron are very powerful. The problem is, extended contact to a lightsaber can melt blast doors. And it doesnt even take long, maybe a second and a half. (TPM first scenes, Jinn tries to get into bridge)

WK has no prophetic defence, Sauron is a quite a bit slower than Yoda, and Yoda also fights by jumping all around the place, they will be lucky to catch him.
Vader can choke Saruman without much problem.
Palps has lightning. He just fires it at whoever is left over, and well, LOTR team loses pretty badly. The super-human powers among the SW team are a far cry from the LOTR team. LOTR is mainly song and faith magic, or these guys case, Morgul. (Any fanboy knows what that translates as ;-D)
Its just the speed and range that team SW has that beats LOTR. Dont get me wrong, I wish LOTR could win, and if we could go by books, this would be FAR closer, but we cant.

A si-Dhuath u-orthor. U or le a u or nin.

I couldnt put in the accents, but still In virtually every debate if it goes on long enough circular arguments arise and repeating yourself becomes frequent.

WK can't be killedby any male. Period. He's also skilled and has shown the power to destroy objects. Sauron doesn't have to pinpoint him just strike in the general direction. When he amps himself with the ring we see how much more powerful his strikes become.

Saruman can fireball Vader to death. His saber can't stop the entire fireball. Saruman also displayed very impressive tk abilities which were more impressive battlewise than Vader. Vader choking random schlubs to death isn't impressive.

Palpatine's lightning isn't powerful. Sauron and the Witch King could straight up tank it. I mean Luke shook after the effects after under it for an extended period of time so why not two beings who are vastly more powerful.

You don't need to go books here.

Sorry about getting your name wrong btw, I noticed that


And no, a Man can kill the WK, I believe the wording was "Stop! You will not succeed, for his death is not at the hands of Man." or something along those lines. It doesnt mean that a man CANT kill him, it means a man WONT kill him. He can die perfectly well by a sword to the face from Aragorn. If you want, go to the LOTR forum and look up the debate. I think it got around 15-50 pages of debating it, so it will give you the answer you seek.

Vader can deflect the fireballs via the Force. He deflects Hans blaster shots in ESB, while Sarumans fireballs travel noticably (cant spell today) slower.
And yes, Sauron must still make contact with his mace to kill people, look at Elendil in FOTR.
And Palps lightning is more powerful than you let on, it threw Yoda back, threw Mace out a window, and had Luke writhing on the ground in obvious agony.

And like I said, I just WISH we could use the books for LOTR. They show a characters power far better than the movies.

Originally posted by Pwned
Sorry about getting your name wrong btw, I noticed that


And no, a Man can kill the WK, I believe the wording was "Stop! You will not succeed, for his death is not at the hands of Man." or something along those lines. It doesnt mean that a man CANT kill him, it means a man WONT kill him. He can die perfectly well by a sword to the face from Aragorn. If you want, go to the LOTR forum and look up the debate. I think it got around 15-50 pages of debating it, so it will give you the answer you seek.

Vader can deflect the fireballs via the Force. He deflects Hans blaster shots in ESB, while Sarumans fireballs travel noticably (cant spell today) slower.
And yes, Sauron must still make contact with his mace to kill people, look at Elendil in FOTR.
And Palps lightning is more powerful than you let on, it threw Yoda back, threw Mace out a window, and had Luke writhing on the ground in obvious agony.

And like I said, I just WISH we could use the books for LOTR. They show a characters power far better than the movies. I don't recall it being his destiny to die to a woman only that a man couldn't kill him. If you link me I will read it.

No, he can't. That fireball surrounded Gandalf's entire body. Show me something that surrounded with the sheer size of the fireball vader deflecting from the movies. Blaster shots are nowhere near the size of the fireball.

Look at the other foes. Sure sometimes he does make contact but with the ring amping him he doesn't need to do so. The lightning blasted away on Windu for a time and he isn't a very powerful guy to begin wit outside the lightsaber and his force powers. Yes, it hurts but Sauron is obviously a lot more powerful than a human being which the force lightning hasn't killed as of yet we can attribute a death due to the force of it aline.

I think the movies do a good enough job. Look at how badass Gandalf was while fighting the Balrog.

You have a point with Gandalf.

An antagonist killing a protagonist? What?

Ahem : "Size matters not. Look at me, judge me by my size do you? Hmm?"

Ill try and find the thread, but it may take a bit.

Vader doesn't need to deflect the fireball. His entire body is armored.

No, I still think he needs to deflect it, because I am not quite sure how much his armor will hold up to it. It will keep him alive, sure, but it may damage his suit.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Vader doesn't need to deflect the fireball. His entire body is armored. Force lightning shorted it out and Luke walked away just fine. A fireball will do worse damage than a brief blast of force lightning.Originally posted by Pwned
You have a point with Gandalf.

An antagonist killing a protagonist? What?

Ahem : "Size matters not. Look at me, judge me by my size do you? Hmm?"

Ill try and find the thread, but it may take a bit. Yeah, it's just we don't have a lot of feats but we can tell by common sense and what we did see how mighty these characters are. Legolas is the feat king from the series but Gandalf made him look pathetic. That doesn't mean Legolas has a chance against gandalf despite having more feats is my point. But take your time I'm interested in reading the thread if I find the time.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Force lightning shorted it out and Luke walked away just fine. A fireball will do worse damage than a brief blast of force lightning.



Lightning shorted him out because Vader is on life-support and walks around with a fvckton of cybernetic parts. Force Lightning is seriously damaging for him. A fireball will do nothing but singe his cape.

Especially given that his armor is made from the same materials as starships.

Yeah, I see where your coming from there. They really should have gone a bit more by the book for their respective power level things, its way off kilter. But I still have to say that, despite Gandalf being powerful in both, Gandalf>WK, and all that stuff, team SW still wins. The force just changes this around to much, and team LOTR just cant keep up with their magic. Sauron will get maybe 1 swing on Yoda, and Yoda can either
A) Lift him with the force or
B) Jump around like a guy on steroids with ADHD and kill Sauron with his lightsaber. That would be sufficient to take down Saruman as well, and Yoda has shown better TK feats by lifting the X-Wing, same with Vader, duelling AND using TK (ESB, Bespin) and crushing that whole room in ROTS.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Lightning shorted him out because Vader is on life-support and walks around with a fvckton of cybernetic parts. Force Lightning is seriously damaging for him. A fireball will do nothing but singe his cape.

Especially given that his armor is made from the same materials as starships. Wrong. Force lightning had less impact on Luke and for a much longer time than on Vader's suit. It's laughable you're claiming Vader's suit is uber when it seems weaker than Luke's skin.Originally posted by Pwned
Yeah, I see where your coming from there. They really should have gone a bit more by the book for their respective power level things, its way off kilter. But I still have to say that, despite Gandalf being powerful in both, Gandalf>WK, and all that stuff, team SW still wins. The force just changes this around to much, and team LOTR just cant keep up with their magic. Sauron will get maybe 1 swing on Yoda, and Yoda can either
A) Lift him with the force or
B) Jump around like a guy on steroids with ADHD and kill Sauron with his lightsaber. That would be sufficient to take down Saruman as well, and Yoda has shown better TK feats by lifting the X-Wing, same with Vader, duelling AND using TK (ESB, Bespin) and crushing that whole room in ROTS. Yoda doesn't lift his opponents except to toss them back and I can honestly see the power of the ring resisting it.

Yoda can jump and flip all he wants in the end Sauron will still swing it in his general direction so he will die. Yoda's most impressive feats are focusing entirely on lifting inanimate objects. It doesn't translate into anything more than force pushing Palpatine when he got the drop on him.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Wrong. Force lightning had less impact on Luke and for a much longer time than on Vader's suit. It's laughable you're claiming Vader's suit is uber when it seems weaker than Luke's skin.

You idiot. Vader is primarily composed of machines and has a fvcking life-support pack strapped to his chest. Palpatines lightning shortcircuited his electronic parts. Also Palpatine was obviously torturing Luke with a low-level blast of lightning. When Vader lifts him up Palpatines lightning is intense enough to silouette his skeleton through the suit, which was not seen when he was using it on Luke, as obviously Palpatine took off the kiddie-gloves and went for the kill.

LNYtN6gwwyY

If you seriously think Vaders metal fvcking body is weaker than Lukes skin then you are truly a drooling retard and I won't bother to reply to you.

Furthermore in ESB Luke fullon hits Vader with his lightsaber and all it does is produce some sparks:

-4FSI5ut6a0

4.50. The same Lightsabers that easily melt through blast-doors.


I win. I will be claiming my victory fellatio shortly.

Originally posted by Nephthys
You idiot. Vader is primarily composed of machines and has a fvcking life-support pack strapped to his chest. Palpatines lightning shortcircuited his electronic parts. Also Palpatine was obviously torturing Luke with a low-level blast of lightning. When Vader lifts him up Palpatines lightning is intense enough to silouette his skeleton through the suit, which was not seen when he was using it on Luke, as obviously Palpatine took off the kiddie-gloves and went for the kill.

LNYtN6gwwyY

If you seriously think Vaders metal fvcking body is weaker than Lukes skin then you are truly a drooling retard and I won't bother to reply to you.

Furthermore in ESB Luke fullon hits Vader with his lightsaber and all it does is produce some sparks:

-4FSI5ut6a0

4.50. The same Lightsabers that easily melt through blast-doors.


I win. I will be claiming my victory fellatio shortly. Don't lose yourself into name calling, sport. Palpatine did have lower level blasts until he admitted Luke was going to die and still had Luke under fire for an ample amount of time which did really nothing he didn't hop right back up and walk away from. Weak sauce.

Vader's suit is obviously more durable but a fireball would also fry his circuits just like the lightning did which really only hit him indirectly. Luke took much more punishment than Vader so yes Vader's suit failed him and was easily short circuited.

Yes, lightsabers are hot but unlike torches they don't set things on fire which was my entire point. At least understand my points before declaring a victory you will never have.

http://files.sharenator.com/retard_1_Dont_laugh-s600x480-39631.jpg


GG Quan. Troll harder next time.

yoda1

Originally posted by Nephthys
http://files.sharenator.com/retard_1_Dont_laugh-s600x480-39631.jpg


GG Quan. Troll harder next time. Concession accepted.

Quan, you are literally the worst debator I've ever met.

You are an utter joke.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Your theory is flawed. It's this simple he can destroy an object with magic or nothing backing it up that his magic is superior to. Trying to say it has to be magical without any proof is reaching. Just because he didn't do so doesn't mean he couldn't. We see Gandalf heat Aragorn's sword up which was non magical so I fail to see your point. You are wrong and just because Gandalf didn't heat anyone else's sword up that doesn't mean he couldn't. Do you understand how movies work ?

Again, not a theory.

To re-type your argument in a more readable form:

1. It's this simple: he can destroy any object with magic (of similar size to Gandalf's staff lest we commit a no-limits fallacy)

or

2. He can only destroy magical objects that also have magic backing them up in a battle of wills. The staff blowing up was only a show of Gandalf being overpowered in a battle of wills.


You assert 1.

I assert #2 because:

1. The MVF Golden Rule. You must stick to what is seen on screen.
2. The Witch King could have easily saved himself if he could apply that same power to similarly sized objects. He didn't, therefore, he can't.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Trying to say it has to be magical without any proof is reaching.

Since it was seen onscreen, you cannot debate it. It is not up for debate. You cannot contradict it. It happened. That's the MVF Golden Rule.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Just because he didn't do so doesn't mean he couldn't.

And just because he didn't, doesn't mean he could. You didn't think about that counterargument when you typed that out, did you?

Originally posted by quanchi112
We see Gandalf heat Aragorn's sword up which was non magical so I fail to see your point.

That was Gandalf, not the Witch King. In order for your point to be valid:

The Witch King would have had to magically act on Aragorn's un-magical sword in the same way he acted on Gandalf's staff.


That did not occur.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You are wrong and just because Gandalf didn't heat anyone else's sword up that doesn't mean he couldn't.

On the contrary, I have not presented anything that contradicts what is seen on screen but you are. You are the one that is wrong based upon the MVF Golden Rule.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Do you understand how movies work ?

Yes, but do you understand how the fundementals of argument work?



Originally posted by Nephthys
Quan, you are literally the worst debator I've ever met.

You are an utter joke.

I disagree. Even in the context of KMC, you have him beat, hands down.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Quan, you are literally the worst debator I've ever met.

You are an utter joke. If you're going to insult me at least spell debater properly it irks me. It's a frequently misspelled word which I can no longer tolerate. My case is simple here and it's backed by the movies I don't make up wrist smashing feats just move on.

Originally posted by quanchi112
If you're going to insult me at least spell debater properly it irks me. It's a frequently misspelled word which I can no longer tolerate. Woah. You've really gotta sort out some priorities.


Oh and you forgot to put a semicolon between 'it' and 'irks'. That irks I.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Again, not a theory.

To re-type your argument in a more readable form:

1. It's this simple: he can destroy any object with magic (of similar size to Gandalf's staff lest we commit a no-limits fallacy)

or

2. He can only destroy magical objects that also have magic backing them up in a battle of wills. The staff blowing up was only a show of Gandalf being overpowered in a battle of wills.


You assert 1.

I assert #2 because:

1. The MVF Golden Rule. You must stick to what is seen on screen.
2. The Witch King could have easily saved himself if he could apply that same power to similarly sized objects. He didn't, therefore, he can't.



Since it was seen onscreen, you cannot debate it. It is not up for debate. You cannot contradict it. It happened. That's the MVF Golden Rule.



And just because he didn't, doesn't mean he could. You didn't think about that counterargument when you typed that out, did you?



That was Gandalf, not the Witch King. In order for your point to be valid:

The Witch King would have had to magically act on Aragorn's un-magical sword in the same way he acted on Gandalf's staff.


That did not occur.



On the contrary, I have not presented anything that contradicts what is seen on screen but you are. You are the one that is wrong based upon the MVF Golden Rule.



Yes, but do you understand how the fundementals of argument work?





I disagree. Even in the context of KMC, you have him beat, hands down. I choose option 1 with the added bonus you have to be more powerful than Gandalf's magic as well. The Witch King was case in point.

1.Yes, we see an object destroyed that was magical in nature and thus more powerful than a regular staff. We also see Gandalf affect a nonmagical weapon. Common sense begins to creep in here at some point.

2.It's like Gandalf with his Saruman feat. Why didn't he do so against Saruman the first time ? Just because someone doesn't use the same tactic every time they fight doesn't mean they lack the ability to do so.

Gandalf affected a nonmagical item with magic. If you cannot connect the dots then it's your problem. I disagree with you and this won't change.

We see another mage do so against a nonmagical item why can't the Witch King ?

We see Gandalf also destroy a staff so logically we conclude magically based characters can affect magical items and nonmagical items because Gandalf did so. How is this so hard ? Really ?

I do understand the fundamentals of debating but if you are going to ignore common sense and the fact Gandalf showed off magic can affect magical and nonmagical items all the same. To assume it couldn't anyways is simply asinine.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Woah. You've really gotta sort out some priorities.


Oh and you forgot to put a semicolon between 'it' and 'irks'. That irks I. That's fine but people not knowing how to spell a debater when this is all you do on here is just bad form especially when criticizing someone else's debating. I'd like to get back to the topic at hand.

Fixing...

Originally posted by quanchi112
I'd like to get back to the task at hand. There. The iconic end piece to many a KotOR conversation.

nerd

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Fixing...

There. The iconic end piece to many a KotOR conversation.

http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/at+hand

Bigger nerder.

Some of us were born with ugly mugs...

So not all of us can balance our nerdiness with our "good" looks.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I disagree. Even in the context of KMC, you have him beat, hands down.

http://watusayin.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/facepalm_implied.jpg

Dick a eat go.

RJ has obviously high-jacked your account: the use of an internet meme coupled with a genital, sex, or poop insult.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Don't lose yourself into name calling, sport. Palpatine did have lower level blasts until he admitted Luke was going to die and still had Luke under fire for an ample amount of time which did really nothing he didn't hop right back up and walk away from. Weak sauce.

In which he was still not pouring in all of his juice. When he shocks Mace Windu with full power his skeleton is illuminated briefly (like Vader's). Thus, Luke was obviously not taking a full blast.



Fire doesn't cause short circuits... facepalm



Lightsaber are far hotter than torches...

Originally posted by quanchi112
Just admit defeat and all will be forgiven.

I didn't know that I'd even joined the debate.

Originally posted by ares834
In which he was still not pouring in all of his juice. When he shocks Mace Windu with full power his skeleton is illuminated briefly (like Vader's). Thus, Luke was obviously not taking a full blast.



Fire doesn't cause short circuits... facepalm



Lightsaber are far hotter than torches... He was hitting Luke with his full blast he says he will die now. Just because we don't see his skeleton flash that isn't proof of anything.

Fire would damage his suit beyond repair and thus kill him.

Yes, they are but when you're cut by one they won't set you on fire like a torch.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Just admit defeat and all will be forgiven.

Except that it was directly seen on screen that it was a battle of wills. Ignoring what is seen on screen does not make you right.

Originally posted by quanchi112
There is no proof whatsoever it's a battle of wills. None all we know is they have the power to destroy an object. That's it.


Ah. I understand you're game, now: ignore what was seen on screen so you can support your position.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Gandalf affected a nonmagical object so why can't Witch King ? are you saying this magical tactic only works on magical items despite seeing Gandalf affect a nonmagical item all the same ? This is preposterous.

I have already explained why despite your strawman.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Witch King broke the staff and so did Gandalf. There's never been anything suggesting their magic can only affect magical items. So to suggest it can't affect regular wooden sticks is just silly.

This is another strawman on your part. You're not even responding to what I said, at this point.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I am not giving him a feat he didn't have I am simply saying by way of common sense their magic can affect nonmagical items. You have no proof this was a battle of wills so you concede the point. You're making a claim you cannot back up.

Except that it was a battle wills quite clearly seen on screen and Gandalf lost.

And the burden of proof is on you to support that the Witch King can explode non-magical items. You still haven't provided anything.


Originally posted by quanchi112
1. Mage or wizard you catch my drift don't waste my time with the semantics of the wordplay used here.

Sure, but as something as serious as LotR, you should probably shy away from incorrect name labels or people will nerd rage on you.

Originally posted by quanchi112
2.You made the claim so it's up to you to prove it.

No, I claim a lack of evidence and support my position with the golden rule. You're making the actually claim of a feat from the Witch King that is simply not there.

Originally posted by quanchi112
3.The witch King destroyed an object I never said he can cause a blade to burn even though whoops he did so to his own blade. Whoops.

There's so much wrong with what you're trying to do here. I mean, really?

1. Nonmagical blade.
2. Magical blade.

Figure it out.

Originally posted by quanchi112
The Witch King broke a staff backed my magic. Game over.

I know: you should have conceded this point long ago. Now that you have, we can move on.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Except that it was directly seen on screen that it was a battle of wills. Ignoring what is seen on screen does not make you right.

We're still talking about that?

Quan, if it wasn't a battle of wills then what was it? Did Harry magically overpower Voldemort? Did he click his heels together 3 times and wish for it?

Originally posted by dadudemon
Except that it was directly seen on screen that it was a battle of wills. Ignoring what is seen on screen does not make you right.



Ah. I understand you're game, now: ignore what was seen on screen so you can support your position.



I have already explained why despite your strawman.



This is another strawman on your part. You're not even responding to what I said, at this point.



Except that it was a battle wills quite clearly seen on screen and Gandalf lost.

And the burden of proof is on you to support that the Witch King can explode non-magical items. You still haven't provided anything.




Sure, but as something as serious as LotR, you should probably shy away from incorrect name labels or people will nerd rage on you.



No, I claim a lack of evidence and support my position with the golden rule. You're making the actually claim of a feat from the Witch King that is simply not there.



There's so much wrong with what you're trying to do here. I mean, really?

1. Nonmagical blade.
2. Magical blade.

Figure it out.



I know: you should have conceded this point long ago. Now that you have, we can move on. I am not talking about Harry and Voldemort I am referring to LOTR.

I am not ignoring anything you are acting as if your theory holds weight when it doesn't while ignoring magical powers affecting non magical items.

I am repeating myself at this point as neither side is budging.

I don't care if people nerd rage on me I will smite them as I smite any who stand in my way.

Witch King destroyed an item thus he can destroy items with his powers.

1.Magical powers can affect nonmagical things/beings
2.Magical powers can affect magical things/beings

Unless you have proof to suggest otherwise.

It's up to you to prove your claim. I don't have to prove your negative wrong you have to prove your theory is correct.Originally posted by Nephthys
We're still talking about that?

Quan, if it wasn't a battle of wills then what was it? Did Harry magically overpower Voldemort? Did he click his heels together 3 times and wish for it? Wrong movie, sport.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I am not talking about Harry and Voldemort I am referring to LOTR.

Thanks.....for clearing that up?

Originally posted by quanchi112
I am not ignoring anything you are acting as if your theory holds weight when it doesn't while ignoring magical powers affecting non magical items.

Covered this already. No circles.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I am repeating myself at this point as neither side is budging.

You have yet to counter (you cant'). So don't try and pretend that "one side or another" is or is not budging.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I don't care if people nerd rage on me I will smite them as I smite any who stand in my way.

Fail.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Witch King destroyed an item thus he can destroy items with his powers.

1.Magical powers can affect nonmagical things/beings
2.Magical powers can affect magical things/beings

Unless you have proof to suggest otherwise.

Actually, the burden of proof is on you and I've explained why. I cannot assert a negative. You must prove that he can destroy non-magical items that are not undergoing a battle of wills.

Originally posted by quanchi112
It's up to you to prove your claim. I don't have to prove your negative wrong you have to prove your theory is correct.

I already did prove my point: he can't destroy anything that is:

1. non-magical.
2. Is not undergoing a battle of wills between a sufficiently powerful wizard and himself.
3. It's against the MVF Golden Rule to give him abilities he wasn't seen on screen.



You must prove that he can destroy non-magical items that are not undergoing a battle of wills between a sufficiently powerful wizard and himself. I've already provided proof that he can't because he didn't to save his own life.



Originally posted by quanchi112
Wrong movie, sport.

And his point went right over your head.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Thanks.....for clearing that up?



Covered this already. No circles.



You have yet to counter (you cant'). So don't try and pretend that "one side or another" is or is not budging.



Fail.



Actually, the burden of proof is on you and I've explained why. I cannot assert a negative. You must prove that he can destroy non-magical items that are not undergoing a battle of wills.



I already did prove my point: he can't destroy anything that is:

1. non-magical.
2. Is not undergoing a battle of wills between a sufficiently powerful wizard and himself.
3. It's against the MVF Golden Rule to give him abilities he wasn't seen on screen.



You must prove that he can destroy non-magical items that are not undergoing a battle of wills between a sufficiently powerful wizard and himself. I've already provided proof that he can't because he didn't to save his own life.





And his point went right over your head. Oh dear.

Your theory hasn't been proven though it's just a theory until you prove it.

You haven't backed your claim yet this is a battle of wills so you must concede the point.

I've shown other magic wielders affect non magical items who also destroyed a staff so it's already been shown in the LOTR it's possible.

1.You haven't proven that. He didn't destroy anything nonmagical which is different than he can't.
2.You can't prove this so it's just a theory of yours.
3.It's an ability he was seen using. Not making feats up.

That's false. Characters do lots of things otherwise and Gandalf didn't destroy Saruman's staff the first time they fought and he was defeated so there goes your whole explanation. The Witch King was winning and was cheapshotted. She posed no threat under her own abilities and he was caught off guard by the treacherous hobbit.

No, it didn't.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Wrong movie, sport.


Answer the question. If Harry didn't overpower him based on Will then what did he overpower him based on?

I don't care if you're currently talking about a different movie, answer this question or conceed that Harry overpowered Voldemort through Will.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He was hitting Luke with his full blast he says he will die now. Just because we don't see his skeleton flash that isn't proof of anything.

And just because he says "you will die" doesn't mean he is using full power... It just means he is going to kill him, but he could do so slowly. Heck look what happend to Palpatine when he takes a strong continuous blast... Luke was neither illumintaed or badly disfigured... It seems that Luke clearly wasn't tanking Palps full powered lightning.



So don't say short curcuit. And considering a Lightsaber has trouble melting his suit it's doubtful fire will do a lot of damage.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Your theory hasn't been proven though it's just a theory until you prove it.

My theory is proven and it's fact because it can't be disproven.

Again, circles.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You haven't backed your claim yet this is a battle of wills so you must concede the point.

I have because ...watch the scene again. Again, you're talking in circles.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I've shown other magic wielders affect non magical items who also destroyed a staff so it's already been shown in the LOTR it's possible.

I've countered this point already. You're talking in circles.


Originally posted by quanchi112
1.You haven't proven that. He didn't destroy anything nonmagical which is different than he can't.
2.You can't prove this so it's just a theory of yours.
3.It's an ability he was seen using. Not making feats up.

1. I have. You have yet to prove otherwise.
2. I did.
3. He hasn't.

And I have covered the whys with evidence for points 1-3, as well. Again, circles.

Originally posted by quanchi112
That's false.

It's true. No what? More circles?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Characters do lots of things otherwise and Gandalf didn't destroy Saruman's staff the first time they fought and he was defeated so there goes your whole explanation.

Incorrect: Gandalf and Saruman are around the same magical level. The Witch King also comes from a different magical stock than either of those two: I've covered this point already.

Lastly, this does not even come close to addressing my "explanation": that's non sequitur of you.

Originally posted by quanchi112
The Witch King was winning and was cheapshotted.

How can you say cheap shot when he had many seconds to explode some things before getting the death blow? You know...the point I made already that you're overlooking yet again?

Originally posted by quanchi112
She posed no threat under her own abilities and he was caught off guard by the treacherous hobbit.

"How can you say cheap shot when he had many seconds to explode some things before getting the death blow? You know...the point I made already that you're overlooking yet again?"





Originally posted by quanchi112
No, it didn't.

It did because your post showed a direct lack of understanding his point.




Originally posted by ares834
So don't say short curcuit. And considering a Lightsaber has trouble melting his suit it's doubtful fire will do a lot of damage.

Touché. I forgot about Luke's lightsaber pretty much bouncing off of Vader's shoulder in ESB. A similar strike against an unarmored bar patron, from Obi Wan, took that fella's arm right off. That should clearly display that Vader has quite the durable armor.

We only need to look at episode 1 to see how easily lightsabers cut through the metal droids.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Answer the question. If Harry didn't overpower him based on Will then what did he overpower him based on?

I don't care if you're currently talking about a different movie, answer this question or conceed that Harry overpowered Voldemort through Will. I said in that instance Harry did overcome him through willpower based on what occurred previously to give him the inner strength.

Originally posted by ares834
And just because he says "you will die" doesn't mean he is using full power... It just means he is going to kill him, but he could do so slowly. Heck look what happend to Palpatine when he takes a strong continuous blast... Luke was neither illumintaed or badly disfigured... It seems that Luke clearly wasn't tanking Palps full powered lightning.



So don't say short curcuit. And considering a Lightsaber has trouble melting his suit it's doubtful fire will do a lot of damage. We already saw him torture him prior to. To suggest he was going with the manner of power is contradicted by the meaning of his words.

The only one who was scarred was Palpatine who got it redirected right back into his face. I feel if he just focused on Luke's face with the same blasts he hit his body with the same thing would have happened.

A brief lightning blast short circuited it so it's obviously not as uber as you claim.

Originally posted by dadudemon
My theory is proven and it's fact because it can't be disproven.

Again, circles.



I have because ...watch the scene again. Again, you're talking in circles.



I've countered this point already. You're talking in circles.




1. I have. You have yet to prove otherwise.
2. I did.
3. He hasn't.

And I have covered the whys with evidence for points 1-3, as well. Again, circles.



It's true. No what? More circles?



Incorrect: Gandalf and Saruman are around the same magical level. The Witch King also comes from a different magical stock than either of those two: I've covered this point already.

Lastly, this does not even come close to addressing my "explanation": that's non sequitur of you.



How can you say cheap shot when he had many seconds to explode some things before getting the death blow? You know...the point I made already that you're overlooking yet again?



"How can you say cheap shot when he had many seconds to explode some things before getting the death blow? You know...the point I made already that you're overlooking yet again?"







It did because your post showed a direct lack of understanding his point.






Touché. I forgot about Luke's lightsaber pretty much bouncing off of Vader's shoulder in ESB. A similar strike against an unarmored bar patron, from Obi Wan, took that fella's arm right off. That should clearly display that Vader has quite the durable armor.

We only need to look at episode 1 to see how easily lightsabers cut through the metal droids. Post a link where peter jackson states it as a fact and I will concede otherwise you have to concede.

This isn't Harry Potter. There is no need to watch the scene again.

No, you didn't counter it. Based on how you argue gandalf can do so but the Witch King can't. If you don't see something then you don't believe it's possible even though we did see the feat.

You have to prove it's different. All of these characters possessed magical abilities and we see less of the Witch King than Saruman or Gandalf so we see less feats. It's simple.

He was stabbed in the back so that takes a little of your concentration away. I mean Saruman was stabbed in the back and he wasn't all over the place either.

No, it really didn't.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I said in that instance Harry did overcome him through willpower based on what occurred previously to give him the inner strength

Harry forced his spell back before his parents arrived. In fact by the looks of it forcing the bead of light to touch Voldemorts wand is what causes them to manifest.

Originally posted by Nephthys
L-Qm27bhaYw

3.30. Harry forces Voldemorts spell back into his wand.

4.05 the light touches Voldemorts wand.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Harry forced his spell back before his parents arrived. In fact by the looks of it forcing the bead of light to touch Voldemorts wand is what causes them to manifest.



4.05 the light touches Voldemorts wand. I already agreed in this instance Harry won the battle of wills so why post the videos when I agreed.

You said it was because of what had previously occured. Clearly this is untrue unless Harry gets inner strength from being tortured and watching Cedric snuff it.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Post a link where peter jackson states it as a fact and I will concede otherwise you have to concede.

This isn't Harry Potter. There is no need to watch the scene again.

No, you didn't counter it. Based on how you argue gandalf can do so but the Witch King can't. If you don't see something then you don't believe it's possible even though we did see the feat.

You have to prove it's different. All of these characters possessed magical abilities and we see less of the Witch King than Saruman or Gandalf so we see less feats. It's simple.

He was stabbed in the back so that takes a little of your concentration away. I mean Saruman was stabbed in the back and he wasn't all over the place either.

No, it really didn't.


f7egAVqmH4Q

STFU and deal with that. awesome

Why Peter Jackson cut that scene out from the theatrical I'll never know, it's a great scene, especially the face Gandalf makes when his staff explodes.

It's probably because it never happened in the book and Gandalf was supposed to be more powerful than an underling of a fellow Maia.

Not neccesarily. Maia are sometimes killed by mortals. And in the book even Gandalf wasn't sure he could defeat the Witchking at Gondor.

Originally posted by ares834
Not neccesarily. Maia are sometimes killed by mortals. And in the book even Gandalf wasn't sure he could defeat the Witchking at Gondor.

Yes, necessarily. No mortal killed any Maia at any time: just destroyed their physical bodies. That's the whole point of Sauron's little adventures...his body was destroyed but his soul remained.


Edit - Also, that thing you refer to about Gandalf is an apples to oranges comparison. Gandalf did not know how real the curse was upon the Witch King. He had no way of knowing if he could actually win...however, that does not mean that his "magic" was weaker than the Witch King's...which was my point: Gandalf was the more powerful magical user.

Originally posted by dadudemon
f7egAVqmH4Q

STFU and deal with that. awesome Makes it all the more hilarious how Eowyn literally made him her *****.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Edit - Also, that thing you refer to about Gandalf is an apples to oranges comparison. Gandalf did not know how real the curse was upon the Witch King. He had no way of knowing if he could actually win...however, that does not mean that his "magic" was weaker than the Witch King's...which was my point: Gandalf was the more powerful magical user.

And before you say it, Ares...


Yes, I am aware "man" was what the "curse" was about. But that's splitting hairs. Gandalf was called an "old man" in that extended scene.


However, they never clashed like that. In fact, it was Gandalf that scared the Nazgul away in RotK. So it should be obvious that his statements were more about the dubiousness of him actually being able to kill the Witch King rather than him admitting that his arcane arts were superior to his own.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Yes, necessarily. No mortal killed any Maia at any time: just destroyed their physical bodies.

An irrelevant distinction. For example, men die but their spirits remain behind.



Not all maia were able to continue their influence after death. The Balrogs for example remained dead.

Originally posted by ares834
An irrelevant distinction. For example, men die but their spirits remain behind.

Not irrelevant specifically for Maia and the like...because...they can reform their physical bodies. Like I said, apples to oranges.



Originally posted by ares834
Not all maia were able to continue their influence after death. The Balrogs for example remained dead.

Again, wrong as well. Most likely, they go to the Abyss or Void (Abyss is in the Timeless Halls ... but super duper far away from the Creator, and the Void is just that: a void with no connection to anything except things like the Door of Night...but most likely the Abyss. There is not "eternal" destruction for Maia...even ones corrupt by Melkor.)

Originally posted by dadudemon
Not irrelevant specifically for Maia and the like...because...they can reform their physical bodies. Like I said, apples to oranges.

Not all Maia were able to. As I stated, when a Balrog's body was destroyed they were unable to reform or return. Furthermore, Gandalf won't be able to truly kill the Witchking either. And usually the term death refers to the destruction of the body. Heck, IIRC, Gandalf even said he died in his battle with the Balrog.



I never once said the Balrogs were eternaly destroyed. My understanding was their spirits lingered around but were completely impotent and unable to reform. This is also what happens to Sauron when his ring is destroyed.

Originally posted by ares834
Not all Maia were able to. As I stated, when a Balrog's body was destroyed they were unable to reform or return. Furthermore, Gandalf won't be able to truly kill the Witchking either. And usually the term death refers to the destruction of the body. Heck, IIRC, Gandalf even said he died in his battle with the Balrog.

K, so what I said. Thank you for conceding.

Originally posted by ares834
I never once said the Balrogs were eternaly destroyed. My understanding was their spirits lingered around but were completely impotent and unable to reform. This is also what happens to Sauron when his ring is destroyed.

K. So what I said, yet again.



Keep it mind, it started with you saying this:

Originally posted by ares834
Maia are sometimes killed by mortals.



I could point out that you backpedaled and are pretending to not have said what you did.

Originally posted by dadudemon
K, so what I said.

Which is why I said it's an irrelevent distinction between destroying a body and dying... Hell, Tolkien at one point says Sauron was "slain".





When did I pretend to say they weren't killed? I've been saying they were killed the entire time.

Originally posted by dadudemon
f7egAVqmH4Q

STFU and deal with that. awesome What is this supposed to prove ?

Originally posted by Nephthys
You said it was because of what had previously occured. Clearly this is untrue unless Harry gets inner strength from being tortured and watching Cedric snuff it. When it came down to it Harry found his inner strength over Cedric's body.

Okay, I'm going to be honest. Here's on this fight goes.

Saruman burns the metal of the lightsabers, Palpatine and Yoda let go, Darth Vader calls them pansies.

Darth Vader chokes Saruman.

Feeling schooled, Yoda and Palpatine pick up their lightsabers and grumble about today's generation.

Witch King, who didn't like Saruman anyway because of his insanely manly voice swings at Yoda. Only since Yoda is half the size of his flail, misses entirely and gets chopped up by Yoda.

All three saber throw at Sauron, and he dies too.


Or something to the same effect. I appreciate how powerful Sauron is implied to be, but come on. If he can't even beat Obiwan and Yoda this match is spite. Jedi are just in a league of their own.

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
Makes it all the more hilarious how Eowyn literally made him her *****.

Nah, if it wasn't for Merry's backstab, Eowyn would have had her head caved in.

Originally posted by Robtard
Nah, if it wasn't for Merry's backstab, Eowyn would have had her head caved in.

Yup. She had already lost her bating arm.

Originally posted by Robtard
Nah, if it wasn't for Merry's backstab, Eowyn would have had her head caved in. Finally some honesty.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Finally some honesty.

No need to be spiteful, dude.

Originally posted by dadudemon
It's not. We must be clear by making that distinction with almost all of the Maia because...they can reform their physical bodies and mortals cannot.

True. But when a physical body is destroyed I consider that dying. Whether or not they can resurrect themseleves is inconsequential to me.

Edit: And I would once again point out that Tolkien said Sauron was slain in battle.



What point may I ask?

Originally posted by Robtard
No need to be spiteful, dude. You need to relax. Trash talking is kinda fun and is a form of male boding so let's continue to bond.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You need to relax. Trash talking is kinda fun and is a form of male boding so let's continue to bond.

YOU need to relax, doodoo head.

Originally posted by Robtard
YOU need to relax, doodoo head. Good. Hopefully this hatred the two of us currently have going on will spread like wildfire to the rest of this forum so this place can have life again.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Good. Hopefully this hatred the two of us currently have going on will spread like wildfire to the rest of this forum so this place can have life again.

This place wouldn't have fire again even if you butt-####ed it with the Torch of Gondor.

Originally posted by Robtard
This place wouldn't have fire again even if you butt-####ed it with the Torch of Gondor. That almost hurt my feelings but my heart is as cold as Sauron's.

Originally posted by quanchi112
That almost hurt my feelings but my heart is as cold as Sauron's.

I didn't say for you to **** your own ass with the Torch of Gondor.

Originally posted by Robtard
I didn't say for you to **** your own ass with the Torch of Gondor. I rescind your fandom to LOTR. Enjoy Harry Potter.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I rescind your fandom to LOTR. Enjoy Harry Potter.

You do not have the power and my antiharrypotterness in here is legendary and set in adamantium.

Originally posted by Robtard
You do not have the power and my antiharrypotterness in here is legendary and set in adamantium. Your banishment is to live alongside Rogue Jedi for eternity with only the Harry Potter films to comfort you.