Current Hulk vs Current Colossus vs Current Thor

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TheHulk
No Prep,No BFR and this fight takes place in a clear open grassland

All Fighters are going all out...ummm for Thor he can go warrior madness(10 min)

DickBlazer
In theory none of these guys can be harmed. With no bfr fight goes forever if all three written to abilities. Of course Colossus is a wild card. Heard he did ok against the massively powerful kuurth.

Yes Thor could do the pis vortex thing to cancel the jem as before with Juggs but no way hulk gives him the time to do it and no hammer for Thor is bad

Thor fanboys ?

cdtm
Without bfr, Thor gets taken out eventually. If he can take out Hulk before his warriors madness expires, I guess Colossus beats him for the win, otherwise he'll have a hard time putting Hulk down for the count himself..

Bouboumaster
Hulk thunderclap these two clowns out of the existence

the Darkone
Thor unleashed cosmic storms that will rock Colossus and Hulk, Thor goes WM it's over he is no longer holding back and will do some serious damage.

TheHulk
Originally posted by Bouboumaster
Hulk thunderclap these two clowns out of the existence laughing

TheHulk
Originally posted by DickBlazer
In theory none of these guys can be harmed. With no bfr fight goes forever if all three written to abilities. Of course Colossus is a wild card. Heard he did ok against the massively powerful kuurth.

Yes Thor could do the pis vortex thing to cancel the jem as before with Juggs but no way hulk gives him the time to do it and no hammer for Thor is bad

Thor fanboys ? Me??? no i ain't a fanboy 4th favorite though....

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by cdtm
Without bfr, Thor gets taken out eventually. If he can take out Hulk before his warriors madness expires, I guess Colossus beats him for the win, otherwise he'll have a hard time putting Hulk down for the count himself..

Why are you assuming that Colossus will beat Thor?

cdtm
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Why are you assuming that Colossus will beat Thor?

He's basically the Juggernaut now, making him invulnerable to physical harm. Without bfr, it's his fight to win, with a stalemate being the alternative.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by cdtm
He's basically the Juggernaut now, making him invulnerable to physical harm. Without bfr, it's his fight to win, with a stalemate being the alternative.

If he's anything like the classic Juggernaut, Thor can hurt him.If it comes down to the force field, Thor can pull a Mjolnir trick out of his *ss but that depends on what mental state he's in.

What makes you think he'd beat current Hulk as well?

h1a8
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
If he's anything like the classic Juggernaut, Thor can hurt him.If it comes down to the force field, Thor can pull a Mjolnir trick out of his *ss but that depends on what mental state he's in.

What makes you think he'd beat current Hulk as well?
I'm against the theory that Juggs invincibility lies in his forcefield. I know comics support both theories but I say Juggs skin is indestructible to physical might and his force field just keeps him from being touched.

cdtm
Originally posted by h1a8
I'm against the theory that Juggs invincibility lies in his forcefield. I know comics support both theories but I say Juggs skin is indestructible to physical might and his force field just keeps him from being touched.

In his fight against the Exemplers, even his clothes were stated as indestructible.

I'm a big fan of Juggernaut, and force field = invulnerability is the outlier, from what I've seen..

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by h1a8
I'm against the theory that Juggs invincibility lies in his forcefield. I know comics support both theories but I say Juggs skin is indestructible to physical might and his force field just keeps him from being touched.

You can think whatever you like. Juggernaut has been hurt and rocked too many times for anyone to pretend he's conclusively invulnerable without his force field. He was referencing his force field when mentioning his durability from the earliest days so it's not even a recent development.

I'm going to the comic shop tomorrow and I'll check out Uncanny. It'll be interesting to see how Colossus Juggernaut stands up to the Worthy Juggernaut physically. I'll laugh my ass off if Cain proves to be superior to Peter.

Originally posted by cdtm
In his fight against the Exemplers, even his clothes were stated as indestructible.

I'm a big fan of Juggernaut, and force field = invulnerability is the outlier, from what I've seen..

Funny that you mention the battle with the Exemplars. It's one of the issues that have him being hurt.

Nah.

quanchi112
Hulk wins.

cdtm
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus




Funny that you mention the battle with the Exemplars. It's one of the issues that disprove that he's invulnerable without his force field.


No it doesn't. The physical attacks weren't doing anything to him, it was the psychic attack that did him in. The narration makes this pretty clear.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by cdtm
No it doesn't. The physical attacks weren't doing anything to him, it was the psychic attack that did him in. The narration makes this pretty clear.

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/3061/jug8thdayp30.jpg

It helps to double check before you start making claims so adamantly. I'm pretty sure we also saw him getting hurt or at least physically affected when trading blows with Stonecutter or whatever.

Colossus-Big C
juggs doesnt need the fircefield to be invunerable, get that shit out of here.

Rage.Of.Olympus
You not liking it doesn't change what's printed.

Colossus-Big C
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
You not liking it doesn't change what's printed. its not that i dont like it, its just simply not true.

Rage.Of.Olympus
When did all the showings that have him being physically hurt or affected without the force field stop being canon?

Colossus-Big C
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
When did all the showings that have him being physically hurt or affected without the force field stop being canon? when did all of the showings of him not needing it stop being cannon, there aremore showings of him not needing it than otherwise

JakeTheBank
It just means the force field is handled inconsistently with writers and there's room for argument for both sides.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
when did all of the showings of him not needing it stop being cannon, there aremore showings of him not needing it than otherwise

I haven't read every single one of Juggernaut's appearances to say for certain either way but in a fair amount of his appearances, he attributes his durability to his force field and gets physically affected without it. At the very least, you can't have as adamant of a stance as you do.

The other problem with Juggernaut is that people take something small and run with it. A writer might have Cain no sell a punch from like f*cking Colossus and his fans take that as proof that nothing can harm him including the elites which is just silly.

This isn't to say Juggernaut doesn't have his high points. Cannonball knocked himself out flying into Cain once.

I don't dislike Juggernaut contrary to popular believe but I have a real problem when people pretend nothing can or ever has harmed him. I mean, I've seen idiots argue multiple times that not even Odin can put him down straight up or something and these kind of stances are just mind boggling to me.

cdtm
You say that like it's a common thing.

How many times has he been knocked out? How many times has he bled, compared to bricks like Thor or Superman?

Conquests attacks may have caused him pain, but they didn't injure him.. None of the physical attacks in that arc did.

Worthy Juggernaut having his blood boiled and not even being bothered by it, shrugging off all physical attacks, that's all things classic Juggernaut is capable of..

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by cdtm
You say that like it's a common thing.

How many times has he been knocked out? How many times has he bled, compared to bricks like Thor or Superman?

Juggernaut being hurt? It's happened often enough that at the very least the force field reliability can be argued as an inconsistency.

Without mental attacks being involved in some way? Like maybe once or twice, it a rare occurrence. Then again, he usually fights the X-men and their strongmen is Colossus. If you want to get really specific we can analyze all his combat showings to reach some sort of average. He can't have had too many battles.

Obviously Cain hasn't bled nearly as many times as Thor/Superman (On the flip side they also have higher highs) but I'm not arguing Cain is less durable than them or anything. But if you take away the force field and put him in a slug fest with either of the two, it's not going to be one sided by any means like some pretend. It'll go back and forth, Cain will be getting rocked.

This also touches on a problem I mentioned earlier that tends to spring up with Cain. If he gets hurt and doesn't start bleeding or no sells a punch from Colossus, it's not in itself evidence that he can't bleed or be hurt.

Originally posted by cdtm
Conquests attacks may have caused him pain, but they didn't injure him.. None of the physical attacks in that arc did.

Not sure if serious.

Originally posted by cdtm
Worthy Juggernaut having his blood boiled and not even being bothered by it, shrugging off all physical attacks, that's all things classic Juggernaut is capable of..

I don't think you can say for sure. Juggernaut did have a high end showing (The D'Spayre mini) but at the same time exotic attacks have been proven effective such as the scene with Nimrod or Rogue's touch.

We'll see how the power of the Juggernaut compares to the power of the Worthy.

cdtm
Cain will get staggered, sure. He still has human equilibrium, and apparently can feel pain to some degree. By and large, physical force alone hasn't put him down, though, even when War Hulk with his celestial tech upgrades knocked him around.

There's a reason World War Hulk opted for battlefield removal, instead of trying to beat him down like he did nearly everyone else in that storyline.

DarkOdin
Thor hands Down although currec hulk and Big C have a huge amp current Thor is wearign Odin armor and has the Odinsword plus Mjolnir stick out tongue

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by cdtm
Cain will get staggered, sure. He still has human equilibrium, and apparently can feel pain to some degree. By and large, physical force alone hasn't put him down, though, even when War Hulk knocked him around.

There's a reason World War Hulk opted for battlefield removal, instead of trying to beat him down like he did nearly everyone else in that storyline.

He can feel pain and based on almost every encounter I've seen of him with an elite strong men, his win is not a foregone conclusion. I'd wager that War Hulk would have taken Cain down sooner or later based on their fight.

Be careful. It doesn't necessarily mean that sufficient physical force can't put him down which is the kind of thinking I have a problem with when it comes to the Juggernaut. For the record, Thor came pretty close to knocking Juggernaut out after he removed his force field. Tbf, DeFalco wrote a pretty powerful Thor.

Green Scar didn't slug it out with Juggernaut because he knew for the fight to have an actual conclusion, it'd take longer than he could afford. It's not an admittance of inferiority if that's what you're implying.

cdtm
There's also the fact the go to method of defeating Juggernaut for non psychics is battlefield removal. If he could be KOed by physical force, it probably would have happened by now... It's not like he hasn't fought Hulk enough times under different writers, ortaken on other "elite strongmen"..

Pak also has Skaar knock Juggernaut into orbit, so that's twice he wrote the character against someone he's trying to build up, and twice he didn't have him KOed by physical force.. And again, Pak had Hulk physically defeat EVERYONE in that arc, except Juggernaut. So why only him? Why have him knock out Thing, break Colossus's hands, knock out Zom possessed Strange, beat down Sentry, but not Juggernaut?

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by cdtm
There's also the fact the go to method of defeating Juggernaut for non psychics is battlefield removal. If he could be KOed by physical force, it probably would have happened by now... It's not like he hasn't fought Hulk enough times under different writers, ortaken on other "elite strongmen"..

So what are you arguing, that he can't be knocked out by beings in his weight class? He's been rocked, hurt, or worn down by their attacks on different occasions. Removing it as a possibility is not something I'd be comfortable with based on history. I'm not saying it would happen often (It's rare enough between most peers) but if it were to happen, it's not something I'd be surprised by. It might never happen but it's still a possibility. Under at least one writer, it was a real danger and DeFalco wrote an incredibly potent Juggernaut.

Originally posted by cdtm
Pak also has Skaar knock Juggernaut into orbit, so that's twice he wrote the character against someone he's trying to build up, and twice he didn't have him KOed by physical force.. And again, Pak had Hulk physically defeat EVERYONE in that arc, except Juggernaut. So why only him? Why have him knock out Thing, break Colossus's hands, knock out Zom possessed Strange, beat down Sentry, but not Juggernaut?

Your argument and line of thinking is flawed for more than one reason. Getting rid of Juggernaut was not an admission of inferiority but as a result of time running out, that was made pretty clear in the story. Hulk punting Monroe into the next state or entrapping Emma isn't an admission that he couldn't beat them straight up either. As a matter of fact, I would strongly argue Green Scar favored himself against Cain based on his dialogue. I'd also like to point out that the Juggernaut/Green Scar fight wasn't written by Pak and despite his fanboyism, when he likes a character, he balances shit out. Sentry and Strange were given a lot of respect.

The Sorrow
Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
when did all of the showings of him not needing it stop being cannon, there aremore showings of him not needing it than otherwise
When has "classic" Juggernaut not needed his forcefield to tank a very powerful attack?

brownqk
Hulk over these two

DARTH POWER
Not sure about Juggs invulnerability without the forcefield but in J2 (from the MC2U) had all Juggs powers minus the forcefield, and Hulk was shown to be his superior. He didn't get Ko'ed by him, but was in serious pain, and was clearly going to be put down before the fight was stopped.

Devron87
@cdtm
"Pak also has Skaar knock Juggernaut into orbit, so that's twice he wrote the character against someone he's trying to build up, and twice he didn't have him KOed by physical force.. And again, Pak had Hulk physically defeat EVERYONE in that arc, except Juggernaut."

actually during the x-men mini the writer is Gage Christos not Pak,
also in Hulk 634 Green Scar say:"but even in the war in new york,even yesterday in vegas,i was holding back"
pretty clear..........

Sr J-Bieb
Wasn't current Colossus and Juggernaut beating each other to the point of bleeding?

Colossus-Big C
Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Wasn't current Colossus and Juggernaut beating each other to the point of bleeding? They beat the living shit out of each other and ironically destroyed a few cities , but colossus enchantment overpowered the serpents when he used his unstoppability vs kuurts unstoppability

Sr J-Bieb
Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
They beat the living shit out of each other and ironically destroyed a few cities , but colossus enchantment overpowered the serpents when he used his unstoppability vs kuurts unstoppability I hope you know that isn't a good thing when you're trying to prove someone is invincible

But what would you know, like really

Rage.Of.Olympus
I haven't stopped by to get the comic yet but according to the guy I know, the two were beating the piss out of each other and Cain proves to be stronger. Colossus uses some intelligence and balances it out with his unstoppable enchantment, then the two collide and Cain's runes build to critical mass or something.

It should be noted that Cytorrak also withdrew any power he invested in Cain. So it's all Serpent at this point. I hope Attuma does well against the Defenders.

If they were drawing blood or whatever, no one can sit there and claim that Juggernaut is undeniably invincible without his force field or something. Not with a straight face.

h1a8
IMO, nothing under Abstract level can harm the Juggs physically.
When a Godblast barely tickles then it is clear that only abstract level beings can harm him physically.

juggernaut74
Pretty much.

Starscream M
what comic did colossus and juggernaut fight in?

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by h1a8
IMO, nothing under Abstract level can harm the Juggs physically.
When a Godblast barely tickles then it is clear that only abstract level beings can harm him physically.

This is the kind of shit I have a problem with. Nothing short of Abstract can harm Juggernaut? What the f*ck kind of nonsense is that?

For the record, Juggernaut had his force field in that scene and even if he did tank it on the chest (Not the case), it doesn't suddenly mean all the numerous times he's been hurt don't count.

h1a8
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
This is the kind of shit I have a problem with. Nothing short of Abstract can harm Juggernaut? What the f*ck kind of nonsense is that?

For the record, Juggernaut had his force field in that scene and even if he did tank it on the chest (Not the case), it doesn't suddenly mean all the numerous times he's been hurt don't count.

Juggs was created to be ABSOLUTELY INDESTRUCTIBLE. It's even mentioned in the original OHOTMU and backed up by many comics.
From the high level things Juggs has resisted then anything SIGNIFICANTLY lower affecting him physically must be thrown out as PIS. Isn't that what we do to other characters (like Thor)?

IMO, it's the beauty of Marvel, that there is a humanoid character who is indestructible but is slow and has various other weaknesses. If Juggs wasn't totally indestructible then he would be a very boring and useless character.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by h1a8
Juggs was created to be ABSOLUTELY INDESTRUCTIBLE. It's even mentioned in the original OHOTMU and backed up by many comics

How the f*ck would you know what's backed up by comics or what the intention was behind Juggernaut's durability? You look at a few scans, maybe a bio, then you think you know everything about a character and ignore anything that contradicts your view.

Originally posted by h1a8
From the high level things Juggs has resisted then anything SIGNIFICANTLY lower affecting him physically must be thrown out as PIS. Isn't that what we do to other characters (like Thor)?

How many times does something have to happen before you accept it as a possibility?

I'm not saying that Hellcat tearing his flesh with her claws should suddenly be the norm but without hesitation, you'd use his best feat as the standard and damn everything else.

Every character has his bad days and good days. On a good day Cain is above most Top Tiers in raw durability but on a bad day he'll be hurt by some knives. The problem I have with Juggernaut is that it's always one extreme or the other. It's not how comics.

Perhaps the worst thing is that people go overboard with Cain. They take something small and assume it's evidence that nothing short of like Eternity can scratch on him. Confirmation bias at it's finest.

Originally posted by h1a8
IMO, it's the beauty of Marvel, that there is a humanoid character who is indestructible but is slow and has various other weaknesses. If Juggs wasn't totally indestructible then he would be a very boring and useless character.

I guess Juggernaut is a very boring and useless character. It's a shame though, if your interest wasn't relative to his durability, you might have become an actual fan.

Starscream M
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

I guess Juggernaut is a very boring and useless character. It's a shame though, if your interest wasn't relative to his durability, you might have become an actual fan. juggernaut is virtually indestructible...only psionic attacks have been known to hurt him. educate yourself!

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Starscream M
juggernaut is virtually indestructible...only psionic attacks have been known to hurt him. educate yourself!

Oh the irony.

The Sorrow
Hulk wins

TheHulk
Originally posted by The Sorrow
Hulk wins thumb up

Sr J-Bieb
Colossus gets his shit pushed in

h1a8
Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Colossus gets his shit pushed in

Not if he's anything like classic juggernaut.

Sr J-Bieb
Clearly he's not

Colossus-Big C
hulk kills thor as easy as bi beast

the ninjak
Originally posted by h1a8
Not if he's anything like classic juggernaut.
Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Clearly he's not
Colossus took dented damage from Kuurth/Cain Marko. Thor killed a Worthy and BFR'd another.

Thor>current Cytorrak/Colossus. Especially since Thor is wearing Odin's battle armor and wielding the Odinsword, Ragnarok. OP even gives him Warrior Madness.http://s977.photobucket.com/albums/ae259/the_ninjak/?action=view&current=img_022.jpg

So now Thor versus Hulk. Is Hulk Worthy or normal?

I'm still giving this to Thor.

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