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This is something I've wondered about for a while, but never really had the chance to do. Let's see how Metroid's various horrors stack up to the Great Devourer. I'm declaring the manga usable here, just because.

A splinter fleet of, let's say Kraken (subject to change,) takes on 3 different planets. Said planets are as normal, with exceptions and stipulations outlined below. The win condition for each planet is either destroying the Tyranid invaders or convincing them to find something else to eat. Tyranid win condition is cleaning the planet of life. This is primarily a ground battle, Tyranid ships can launch Mycetic Spores and other transports, or collect the biomass or whatever they do. Tyranids move on after each battle, but are reverted their original forces.

1. Aether/Dark Aether - Tyranids vs. Ing
- Neither the Galactic Federation nor Space Pirates are present.
- Dark Samus is not present.
- Luminoth are gone, but their technology is available to any that can use it. Light crystals protect Tyranids from Dark Aether but do not heal them.
- Portals to Dark Aether don't need to be activated and are instead constantly open.

2. SR388 - Tyranids vs. Metroids vs. X-Parasites
- Free for all, essentially. X and Metroids will not work together.
- X consider Metroids priority targets, but will attack Tyranids in order to get stronger hosts.

ALTERNATE SCENARIO - Metroids and X will work together, and they hate Tyranids.

3. Phaaze - Tyranids vs. Phazon.
- Dark Samus is active.
- Space Pirates are not present.

Regardless of who actually wins, the resulting hybrid monstrosity invades Nosgoth.

How large of a Tyranid force per planet?

It's a splinter fleet, so a few dozen Hive Ships. Let's say around 50, with all the Tyranids they can carry.

Well, the battle against the X basically depends on the Norn Queen of said splinterfleet. If it can adapt against the X the Tyranids roll them with impunity.

Adopting Metroid DNA as Samus did could help, too. And these are the freakin' Tyranids we're talkin' aboot, so yes...


Edit: Been way too long since I played Prime II, so I forget a lot about the Ing.
Poor Nosgoth. T_T

'k, then, we can start with the X. Manga, so right to left.

http://metroid-database.com/manga/official_vol_1_en/ch_0004/scaled/sc_metroid_v01_ch004_0011.png
http://metroid-database.com/manga/official_vol_1_en/ch_0004/scaled/sc_metroid_v01_ch004_0012.png
http://metroid-database.com/manga/official_vol_1_en/ch_0004/scaled/sc_metroid_v01_ch004_0013.png

This being the fastest they've been seen to work, digesting the creatures and then mimicking them over the course of just a few seconds. Then, X can asexually divide into multiple clones over a few hours.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4wKoILZ9JE#t=23s

Then, once mimicked, killing the X just puts it back into gel form, where it's effectively immune to physical attack, or at least missiles. If it can escape, it doesn't take long for the X to reform its body: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2ErIS8cDIA#t=3m15s

As long as the X get a few Tyranids, they can clone them, and it'd be pretty difficult to kill them physically before it reforms the killed form. They probably would need Metroid DNA to kill them permanently with any kind of ease, though that might be difficult in itself...

On Metroids, they're pretty resilient in themselves. Larval Metroids can tank Super Missiles unfrozen, and plasma will just bounce off things like Omegas and Queens.

Super Missile power: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqZJ0_82Fs0#t=1m10s

Rough Bolter analogue, I would think. Then we have tiny Larvas tanking that like it's nothing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqszxx7mdd0#t=1m52s

Queen vs. PowerWaveIcePlasma: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWvGdNh3neM#t=2m24s

I imagine the Tyranids could take them out with enough firepower, but smaller Tyranids probably aren't killing them easily.

Ing stuff. They possess things.

Corpses- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmrW0keIwjQ#t=53s

Giant bugs- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBqLpKhOH1g#t=2m40s

Originally posted by The Scenario
'k, then, we can start with the X. Manga, so right to left.

http://metroid-database.com/manga/official_vol_1_en/ch_0004/scaled/sc_metroid_v01_ch004_0011.png
http://metroid-database.com/manga/official_vol_1_en/ch_0004/scaled/sc_metroid_v01_ch004_0012.png
http://metroid-database.com/manga/official_vol_1_en/ch_0004/scaled/sc_metroid_v01_ch004_0013.png

This being the fastest they've been seen to work, digesting the creatures and then mimicking them over the course of just a few seconds. Then, X can asexually divide into multiple clones over a few hours.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4wKoILZ9JE#t=23s

Then, once mimicked, killing the X just puts it back into gel form, where it's effectively immune to physical attack, or at least missiles. If it can escape, it doesn't take long for the X to reform its body: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2ErIS8cDIA#t=3m15s

As long as the X get a few Tyranids, they can clone them, and it'd be pretty difficult to kill them physically before it reforms the killed form. They probably would need Metroid DNA to kill them permanently with any kind of ease, though that might be difficult in itself...

On Metroids, they're pretty resilient in themselves. Larval Metroids can tank Super Missiles unfrozen, and plasma will just bounce off things like Omegas and Queens.

Super Missile power: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqZJ0_82Fs0#t=1m10s

Rough Bolter analogue, I would think. Then we have tiny Larvas tanking that like it's nothing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqszxx7mdd0#t=1m52s

Queen vs. PowerWaveIcePlasma: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWvGdNh3neM#t=2m24s

I imagine the Tyranids could take them out with enough firepower, but smaller Tyranids probably aren't killing them easily. Hm, thank you, thank you.

Well, lets start with SR388 then for this discussion.

Weird as this is to say, I think the first engagement would actually go fairly poorly for the Tyranids, simply because of the way the X work. Physically damaging them is hard, while destroying their hosts is not so much, the problem is the X themselves.

The thing is, depending on when this takes place, X may not be plentiful on SR388, because in Metroid II, they weren't even noticed IIRC, due to the dominance of Metroids on the world.

If we artificially boost the numbers of the X, or the hive fleet arrives before the Metroids lower the X's numbers to near invisible amounts, as I assume is happening in this thread, many of the lesser creatures will be taken over. Upon realizing the nature of the X, however, the hivemind would change tactics, and the Norn queen would set about trying to engineer an immunity. The easiest way to do that would be to capture Metroids. I think a few Genestealers or Lictors could pull this off easily enough. Once the Tyranids incorporated Metroid DNA into their broods they'd eventually roll over the X for a few reasons.

1. While the X can clone their hosts, the Tyranids lose nothing from their dead, and can reabsorb the biomass of the slain X hosts to create more Tyranids from them. Because the Tyranids will also start with an innitially longer force, this is a war of attrition the X simply cannot win.

2. The Tyranids will now be able to feed on the X directly, and work their genetics into their broods as well, improving them further and possibly allowing gaunts to self propagate or something.

Ofcourse the lynchpin here is the Metroid DNA, it becomes harder in the battle where the Metroids and X are all hugsy wugsy.

I doubt, though, that even if the X take some of the larger creatures they'll be able to win once the Tyranids have that Metroid DNA. I also doubt their ability to take some Tyranids over, such as Hive Tyrants and Zoanthropes, due to their psychic defenses.

Taking a few Carnifexen and warriors would be very good for the X, but their's another question I have about that.

See, the Warriors accompanying Hive Tyrants are directly descended from that Tyrant's own flesh to make the psychic bond between them even more potent. Could the Tyranids potentially still control their infected, temporarily neutralizing the X? Once the infected beasts who had remained under control re-enter the digestion pools, the X go with them, and the next batch will be immune.

Just thoughts.

As for the Metroids, they're an interesting enemy. Very durable and powerful, but I'm not sure they could stand up to some of the Tyranids' heavier weaponry, again I'll cite Zoanthropes. I think a warp blast or a lance from one of those could fell any Metroid, and I can see the Tyranids favouring them in this kind of a battle, as well.

If baby Metroids are captured it's entirely possible the Tyranids could even adopt or counter their energy draining abilities.

So, imho, it comes down to when the first metroid is captured, and whether the Tyranids can pull a second Octarius. The advantage of striking from orbit of the planet gives them a great deal of strategic flexibility, as well.

Eh. Thoughts?

***** get on MSN.

I do agree for the most part, and Zoanthropes and other psychic nastiness is one of the few thing the Tyranids have that the Metroids and X have no real way of dealing with. Though that depends on whether X can mimic psychic powers, too, and how they interact with the Hive Mind. I am declaring SR388 to be more or less mid Metroid and X war, though, a little while after the Metroids were released, just so each will have some substantial numbers.



Quick question, how long do you think it takes to incorporate DNA into Tyranids, and how effective are the traits? I know that Hive Guard seem to be Space Marines and Biovores are Orkoid somehow, but these are pretty minimal traits, and in the case of Zoanthropes they improved on something that the Tyranids could already do.



True, but I would think it depends on how many powerful Tyranids the X can take early on and how far the Tyranids can bring their immunity. I don't think slain X really leave a corpse. They usually just go back to their floating cell form. On the other hand, after an X has eaten a host it left a skeleton on at least 2 occasions. And X can go after corpses if they want.



That depends on what you mean by "infected" and how the X go about doing it. If you mean what happened to Samus, where she was infected, then went about as normal before falling into a coma, yes the Tyranid is still in control at that point. If you mean after the X has eaten the corpse and then mimicked the body (as what happened to the Hornoad), then I don't think so. See, the X don't really "control" the host so much as they just infect it, eat it from inside out, and then use the DNA to make a perfect copy on the spot. That Tyranid Warrior, if taken the quick route, will be eaten and the X will have made a completely new but identical Warrior right there. The X also sometimes play with DNA, too, like when they combined Space Pirate DNA with that of a fish to make Merman Pirates, or with Humans and slime to make slime monsters. Heck, one of them crossed Samus with a Hornoad to make this:
http://images.wikia.com/metroid/images/3/30/SA-X_True_Form.png

I think it might be possible after being mimicked if the Hive Tyrant's control of them is DNA based, but then the X are likely to just take that part out immediately, or combine the Warrior with something else.



Possibly, but I'm not so sure it's an instant process.

Also, X-Parasites are totally blanks!

I think it took days just for Tyranids attacking the planet in "warriors of ultramar" to adapt to the cold, before then hundreds if not thousands died in their holes and burrowed beneath the ground.

the last stat i remember about 'nids is that it usually takes about 100 or so days from initial spore siege to moving on to another planet. and the way they claim their dead is by ripper swarms. the masses of billions of the tiny little cat-sized things devour everything. plants, flesh, water.. hell even minerals.

after they gorge themsevles, they flop themselves all suicidal into gene pools of acids. taking all that dna they ate and melting it all into this giant tub of muck and bio-matter. the nids then form giant stalks of tendrils that reach out into space and feed the bioships in space that drain those pools. which gives the norn queens new dna from the assaulted species.

once the norn queen has it, she can start experimenting with the new dna into newly created tyranid bioforms. most (if not all) of tyranid creation happens in the biofleet. and they generally only reclaim their dead bio-mass that way. if they win an assault, they lose nothing. if they cant gain control of the planet, they lose massive expendatures of resources and biomass.

Those are cycles, actually. A non-defined time span.

In the codex they eat multiple worlds in a couple of weeks. Will find the quote and reply to everyone's posts later. Wanted to clear this up immediately.

please do. im going by the 4th edition codex i have in hand right now. and is that multiple worlds by attacking them all at once, or one at a time?

Originally posted by Matthias Fenris
please do. im going by the 4th edition codex i have in hand right now. and is that multiple worlds by attacking them all at once, or one at a time?

http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo141/ShinTwist_ScreamPaste/planeteaten.jpg

Takes a week to eat a planet there. There are other mentions of even less time I'm trying to dig up, but it's hard to remember specific page numbers and shit all the time, lol.

hmmmn... they really sped things up from 4th to 5th codex, then... O_o.. jesus.

Tyranid psychic powers come directly from the hive mind, so unless the mimic'd 'Thropes were connected to it, they couldn't use their powers, imho, and would simply lay on the ground and be super-intelligent.

Not long at all. As soon as the next batch of Tyranids is born, and even the existing broods have adaptability. For example, when (I think it was Naga) was fighting the Tau, they'd alter the physiology of their troops depending on the battlefield and Tau weaponry regularly, essentially as soon as conditions changed. As for actually incorporating whole new DNA? Eh, hard for me to really say. This is one of those rare subjects I've seen few actual statements on, but given the way Tyranids work I don't think it should take too awfully long.

There's the advantage Tyranids have, too, of being space borne, so this isn't really an issue since they can stand to wait.

Eh. I can see Carnifexen being taken over, and I can see large forces of them being produced by the X, but in that same token, the Tyranids will simply dispatch whatever is best suited to taking them down in the next wave, and truthfully I feel Carnifexen are the biggest Tyranid threat truly vulnerable to the X. A sufficient tide of venomous hormagaunts could clean up, assuming the Tyranids capture a Metroid. (Something easily accomplished by Lictors. In the fluff about six of them kill off a Warboss and his guard without casualties) Tyranids are, oddly enough, due to the way the Hive Mind works, some of the most cunning and strategically capable enemies in 40k. They have a great advantage in this over the X and Metroids in that they can make tactical decisions and adjust their strategies very easily.

So, really, the X would need to be very organised and take a lot of Tyranids, imho. Otherwise once the Tyranids got their hands on Metroid DNA I don't think they could realistically hold off the rest of the assault.

WHAT HAS SCIENCE DONE!? D:

Hm, if the innitial warrior is physically identical, could the Hive Mind not still control it, though? Since warriors are by definition soulless forms of meat designed to be conduits for the hive mind? I'm sure the X could adapt away from that or figure out what's wrong and turn it off in time, but this could also pose a potential problem for them.


So yes, this:



As for the X being blanks because they lack souls, that would make the Tyranids blanks, too. O-o Tyranids lack souls, apparently, lol. :P

So, my vote is that the Tyranids get Metroid DNA one way or the other and eventually take SR388. Nosgoth is invaded by giant, semi-transparent, soul eating space bugs!

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Tyranid psychic powers come directly from the hive mind, so unless the mimic'd 'Thropes were connected to it, they couldn't use their powers, imho, and would simply lay on the ground and be super-intelligent.

I thought I'd read that somewhere. 'k, so X can't copy psychic powers and this sucks for them. HOWEVER, given that X also copy memories and such, sitting there being super intelligent could be a decently good thing for them. This is also dependent on whether or not they can combine Zoathropes with other things to make them smarter, assuming they can even get close enough to infect Zoanthropes.



Wiki says it was Gorgon.
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Gorgon_(Hive_Fleet)#.To0pzP7NltM
Also says that in order to do it they used lots of small creatures as opposed to big ones. The X are going to be depending entirely on Tyranid weaponry, not exactly hard for new Tyranids to adapt to. Unless the X pull another Arachnus-X out of nowhere and make its claws shoot sonic booms, that is. But they've only done that once. This might make it harder for the Tyranids to adapt to Metroids, though.



True, nothing on the planet can really deal with this.



Ooh, a Carnif-X. That's more than big enough for the X to form a Core-X, and that opens the door to one of the X's more interesting adaptations: Beam Core-X.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2tiS84mmOI#t=35s
Behold, the soon to be Bio-Plasma Core-X. That is, assuming the Screamer Killers are even using it, but it seems a likely outcome. I like to think an Omega Metroid could take a Carnifex (or its X mimic) in a fight, but not easily. The best feat for one is tearing apart pretty big sections of a space station (the docking bay, in fact), one shotting Samus, and taking the vacuum of space like pros. As for Lictors, sure they're stealthy killers, but I'm not so sure about capture. Metroids are aggressive little guys, can a Lictor keep one still for long enough, or would they just go for killing them?



Well, the X are only as smart as their opponents. The X in Metroid Fusion had a station full of researchers and Samus' intelligence to work with, and became quite accomplished hackers and strategically cut Samus off from upgrades, locked her out of areas and so on. At one point they tried to sacrifice themselves in order to kill Samus and the Metroids, just so the other X on the planet could survive. Against Tyranids, they'd probably stay animalistic until they managed to infect a Zoanthrope or Hive Tyrant or something. Maybe Genestealers? Anything that can be pretty clever on its own. But yes, the Metroids very well could be the thing that seals the X's defeat.



Isn't that true of all Tyranids, though? Maybe it's just since Warriors are synapse creatures, but I remember reading that the Hive Mind could shut down the survival instincts of Gaunts and such and force to throw themselves at bullets just to waste the enemy's ammo. I really don't know what would happen since the X haven't dealt with anything like that before. I think they might have their own hivemind, but if so it's barely implied. Well, how do Warriors fare if cut off from the Hive Mind? Wait, unless they can't be, being synapse creatures and all.




Bah, the Hive Mind makes them replacement souls. Or something. Was kidding anyway.



That's a decent enough outcome. Now to put that back in 40K and see what happens. Though I do have a mental image of a mass of still active Metroid cells eating a reclamation pool and turning it to dust. Not likely, since that apparently only works on X, but funny.