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Who wins if Loki fights like this:

Loki wins. Especially if he fights like this:

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/4245/thor600003.th.jpg http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/2319/thor600004.th.jpg

Magic is a bad matchup for the Hulk but I still see the Hulk taking this.

yeah probably loki with his magic..

Loki destroys him.

umar didn't seem to be able to do anything to hulk....

Loki.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Magic is a bad matchup for the Hulk but I still see the Hulk taking this.

If Loki fights as indicated in the OP (flying, illusions, all ranged attacks while never coming within melee range), how can The Hulk possibly win?

surtur loki wouldn't win imo. he became exhausted quite quickly and had to flee but surtur caught him anyway. loki could obviously bfr him at any point. he could turn intangible and invisible as well and make it a stalemate. i'm not sure if he could simply transmute him. probably, but i never really like just saying that is possible at any point because it opens up a lot of other possibilities. otoh umar DID transmute hulk in the past, but this hulk is something else entirely. if someone thinks liko CAN transmute him, i get it. i even admit it is likely. i just don't feel comfortable with the thought.

Originally posted by leonidas
umar didn't seem to be able to do anything to hulk....

she fought him?

she wanted him out of her dimension. she didn't seem too pleased that he was continually blowing it up.

hulk

Originally posted by leonidas
she wanted him out of her dimension. she didn't seem too pleased that he was continually blowing it up. Not so true, she open up a portal for them to leave. http://www.shoutmix.com/smileys/thumbsup.gif

but was unable to force them to go iirc....?

Umar or at the very least Doctor Strange illustrated that even at this level, magic is still a reliable tactic against the Hulk.

Originally posted by guy222
hulk

How does the Hulk win?

Originally posted by vansonbee
Not so true, she open up a portal for them to leave. http://www.shoutmix.com/smileys/thumbsup.gif

From what I recall it was not her that opened the portal it was Monica back on earth using the wishing machine after everything went to hell when Foom come back to earth and Jen and Rick when crazy absorbing all that gamma radiation.

Umar was the one that brought the Hulk to the Dark Dimension and both Strange, Foom, and Tyrannus were able to leave granted by different methods.I see not reason if she wanted it why she would not be able to send him back.She seemed to be just annoyed at the destruction at the beginning but later on seem pretty happy that the portal appeared and she could get rid of them.

Thing is she seemed to be subject to what ever effects presented themselves from using the wishing well just like everyone else so that could be the reason

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
If Loki fights as indicated in the OP (flying, illusions, all ranged attacks while never coming within melee range), how can The Hulk possibly win? Hulk is bridging that gap and he will break Loki very quickly.

What do you mean bridging that gap?

You mean The Hulk is going to fly and see through all of Loki's illusions?

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
What do you mean bridging that gap?

You mean The Hulk is going to fly and see through all of Loki's illusions? Hulk will get his hands on Loki sooner or later. Loki for all his tricks has always been Thor's b----.

Current Hulk vaporize Loki

Originally posted by quanchi112
Hulk will get his hands on Loki sooner or later. Loki for all his tricks has always been Thor's b----.

Thor also has the means to dispel Loki's illusions and counter his sorcery through Mjolnir, though.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Thor also has the means to dispel Loki's illusions and counter his sorcery through Mjolnir, though.

Yeah it's been pretty well established that it's less of Thor's power (not so say he's not powerful) and more of Thor being a counter to Loki. They are pretty comparative really

Pretty much.

I agree Thor's physical superiority definitely plays a factor, but when Loki begins doing stuff such as making copies of himself, turning invisible, shape shifting, and everything else, Thor winds up busting out more exotic techniques in order to best him.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Thor also has the means to dispel Loki's illusions and counter his sorcery through Mjolnir, though. Loki's illusions won't bother the Hulk much. It's just a matter of time here. Loki can't put him down whereas the Hulk does as soon as he gets ahold of him.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Loki's illusions won't bother the Hulk much. It's just a matter of time here. Loki can't put him down whereas the Hulk does as soon as he gets ahold of him.

They have before in the past, though. Granted, that was classic Hulk, but Loki hardly exerted himself in doing so and while Hulk has come a long way since then, so too has Loki.

I just think Loki's power set and cunning is a uphill battle to overcome for a one dimensional brick, albeit a very powerful one such as Hulk.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
They have before in the past, though. Granted, that was classic Hulk, but Loki hardly exerted himself in doing so and while Hulk has come a long way since then, so too has Loki.

I just think Loki's power set and cunning is a uphill battle to overcome for a one dimensional brick, albeit a very powerful one such as Hulk. Hulk's gotten so out of control powerful lately I honestly don't even think Loki would even want a piece of him.

Hulk's proven time and time again how formidable he is. I just don't see Loki as being powerful enough to even really slow him down.

Lol.

Hulk ftw

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
What do you mean bridging that gap?

You mean The Hulk is going to fly and see through all of Loki's illusions?

Yes the Hulk would see through the illusion, he has done so in the past, and has feats to prove it.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
They have before in the past, though. Granted, that was classic Hulk, but Loki hardly exerted himself in doing so and while Hulk has come a long way since then, so too has Loki.

I just think Loki's power set and cunning is a uphill battle to overcome for a one dimensional brick, albeit a very powerful one such as Hulk.

The Hulk vaped Fin Fang Foom with the sweat that was coming off of him. Loki would be dead in seconds.

It depends in character Loki is his own worse nightmare and Hulk keels him.

Originally posted by Stoic
Yes the Hulk would see through the illusion, he has done so in the past, and has feats to prove it.



The Hulk vaped Fin Fang Foom with the sweat that was coming off of him. Loki would be dead in seconds.

Which illusions has Hulk seen through? And Loki's illusions specifically have been shown to effect Hulk in the past.

Prove it would kill Loki in seconds when Loki can just go intangible/teleport/make himself radioactive/etc.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Which illusions has Hulk seen through? And Loki's illusions specifically have been shown to effect Hulk in the past.

Prove it would kill Loki in seconds when Loki can just go intangible/teleport/make himself radioactive/etc.

Do you recall what happened in WW Hulk with Dr. Stranges astral self? The Hulk has always had the ability to detect BS.

Do you recall how resistant he is to things like magic, and psychic assaults when he's pissed off enough? You see these things can be called PIS if they happen only once, but if they continue happening, there comes a time that you have to say that it's one of his capabilities.

In the Dark Dimension I forget what those Juggernauts were named (The Forgotten Ones?) Those guys are pure magic, and the Hulk dealt with multitudes of them like they were feather weights. Nova Prime who in my opinion is a beast, had troubles with one or two.

The Hulk was literally unfazed by hit to the head by Bi-Beast, and the original baddass Wendigo, and the leader of the Troyjans hitting him at once.

Loki would die.

Originally posted by Stoic
Do you recall what happened in WW Hulk with Dr. Stranges astral self? The Hulk has always had the ability to detect BS.

Do you recall how resistant he is to things like magic, and psychic assaults when he's pissed off enough? You see these things can be called PIS if they happen only once, but if they continue happening, there comes a time that you have to say that it's one of his capabilities.

In the Dark Dimension I forget what those Juggernauts were named (The Forgotten Ones?) Those guys are pure magic, and the Hulk dealt with multitudes of them like they were feather weights. Nova Prime who in my opinion is a beast, had troubles with one or two.

The Hulk was literally unfazed by hit to the head by Bi-Beast, and the original baddass Wendigo, and the leader of the Troyjans hitting him at once.

Loki would die.

Yes, I recall that moment. Doesn't invalidate all past history and neither does it somehow lessen Loki's trickery which have fooled Odin before. And I'm going out on here on a limb and say Odin's ability to detect "BS" is greater than that of Hulk's.

Ok, cool. Still doesn't invalidate or lessen Loki's ability.

Same as above.

Same as above.

I'm not disputing Hulk's badassery or his raw power, but against Loki, who's specifically fighting to the best of his ability and not simply brawling with Hulk, it's a tough fight for Hulk to win. I don't see whats so difficult about realizing that Hulk, a straight forward brick with top tier strength/durability/etc, would have issues with a guy who quite literally does not have to physically engage him in battle.

And using Thor as a reasoning for why Hulk would do as good or better is faulty as Thor specifically has the means to combat Loki's sorcery and illusions (ie. Mjolnir).

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Yes, I recall that moment. Doesn't invalidate all past history and neither does it somehow lessen Loki's trickery which have fooled Odin before. And I'm going out on here on a limb and say Odin's ability to detect "BS" is greater than that of Hulk's.

Ok, cool. Still doesn't invalidate or lessen Loki's ability.

Same as above.

Same as above.

I'm not disputing Hulk's badassery or his raw power, but against Loki, who's specifically fighting to the best of his ability and not simply brawling with Hulk, it's a tough fight for Hulk to win. I don't see whats so difficult about realizing that Hulk, a straight forward brick with top tier strength/durability/etc, would have issues with a guy who quite literally does not have to physically engage him in battle.

And using Thor as a reasoning for why Hulk would do as good or better is faulty as Thor specifically has the means to combat Loki's sorcery and illusions (ie. Mjolnir).

Well said!

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Yes, I recall that moment. Doesn't invalidate all past history and neither does it somehow lessen Loki's trickery which have fooled Odin before. And I'm going out on here on a limb and say Odin's ability to detect "BS" is greater than that of Hulk's.

Ok, cool. Still doesn't invalidate or lessen Loki's ability.

Same as above.

Same as above.

I'm not disputing Hulk's badassery or his raw power, but against Loki, who's specifically fighting to the best of his ability and not simply brawling with Hulk, it's a tough fight for Hulk to win. I don't see whats so difficult about realizing that Hulk, a straight forward brick with top tier strength/durability/etc, would have issues with a guy who quite literally does not have to physically engage him in battle.

And using Thor as a reasoning for why Hulk would do as good or better is faulty as Thor specifically has the means to combat Loki's sorcery and illusions (ie. Mjolnir).

The thing is that throughout the hulks history, he has had the ability to detect astral beings, this may not be one of Odins powersets, so while Odin may be more powerful than the Hulk, an ability is an ability. Grabbing Strange sort of diffuses Loki's ability to slip out the back door by becoming intangible correct?

Many people may remember what happened to the Visions attempts to harm the Hulk in his intangible form. It was turned back on him, and instead of Hurting the Hulk, he was instead hurt.

I didn't use Thor as a means to determine how well the Hulk would do against Loki, that may have been Quanchi.

My thing is that Loki fighting to the best vs the Hulk of 634 may not be enough. This is the reason that I vrought up the Forgotten Ones, they are pure magic, and the Hulk in the past was completely over run by them, this time was far different.

I just can't see Loki doing well at all, even with his magics against the Hulk when he simply will not hold anything back. This simply means that the Hulk would continue to grow in power with no end in sight. Marvel wrote the Beyonder saying that the Hulk was an infinite power, and from what I know, this statement has not been retconned. The Hulk isn't just a one trick pony, we all saw that he has long distance attacks.

A few things :

a) Hulk CAN see astral forms, it's an ability of his (mentioned on panel and in his handbook entry) so Loki in astral form will be spotted
b) The Hulk incident when he grabbed Dr. Strange's astral body was in a dimension in which things were more dense than things on Earth, that's how Hulk was able to touch Strange
c) The Mindless Ones of the Dark Dimension gave Dormammu fits and he's stated to be about Odin level in power (for sure he's more powerful than Classic Loki). If Hulk really was mowing through them left and right, that's a damn impressive feat

Originally posted by zopzop
A few things :

a) Hulk CAN see astral forms, it's an ability of his (mentioned on panel and in his handbook entry) so Loki in astral form will be spotted
b) The Hulk incident when he grabbed Dr. Strange's astral body was in a dimension in which things were more dense than things on Earth, that's how Hulk was able to touch Strange
c) The Mindless Ones of the Dark Dimension gave Dormammu fits and he's stated to be about Odin level in power (for sure he's more powerful than Classic Loki). If Hulk really was mowing through them left and right, that's a damn impressive feat


Well said and all true.

Originally posted by Stoic


In the Dark Dimension I forget what those Juggernauts were named (The Forgotten Ones?) Those guys are pure magic, and the Hulk dealt with multitudes of them like they were feather weights. Nova Prime who in my opinion is a beast, had troubles with one or two.




They vary I have seen the Nova example I have also seen them be cut in half by blade using and adamantium sword simply restore themselves.But have also seen them get be destroyed by The Thing and Thor and taken down by a shotgun.

Originally posted by zopzop
A few things :

a) Hulk CAN see astral forms, it's an ability of his (mentioned on panel and in his handbook entry) so Loki in astral form will be spotted
b) The Hulk incident when he grabbed Dr. Strange's astral body was in a dimension in which things were more dense than things on Earth, that's how Hulk was able to touch Strange
c) The Mindless Ones of the Dark Dimension gave Dormammu fits and he's stated to be about Odin level in power (for sure he's more powerful than Classic Loki). If Hulk really was mowing through them left and right, that's a damn impressive feat

Why does any of those matter when Loki's illusions have directly worked on The Hulk in the past?

Loki's magic is superior to Strange's so what does it matter how The Hulk fared against Strange?

Sorry but Loki's illusions have worked on High End Skyfathers like Surtur (an amped Surtur mind you) and Odin (the Godfather of all Skyfathers); The Hulk aint seeing through them...

Classic Loki a low end reality warper at times and would toy with Classic Hulk.

Loki might not be able to put the Hulk down with sheer raw power, but he still takes this. Even based on the latest arc.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Loki might not be able to put the Hulk down with sheer raw power, but he still takes this. Even based on the latest arc.


How does he take this? The Hulk isn't just fists, he also has shown energy projection, so what happens when Loki get hit by it? Your comment makes it seem too one sided, and I don't agree with it whatsoever.

Still going with Hulk here I have no faith in Lokis ability to finish this fights

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Loki's magic is superior to Strange's so what does it matter how The Hulk fared against Strange?

This is debatable :

Noob Strange doing what Loki can't, snatching Mjolnir from Thor's hand:
http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/5559/strangethor9oa.th.jpg


Strange stripped of his artifacts vs Loki :
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/8626/thor73110vr.th.jpg

Originally posted by Stoic
How does he take this? The Hulk isn't just fists, he also has shown energy projection, so what happens when Loki get hit by it? Your comment makes it seem too one sided, and I don't agree with it whatsoever.

The easiest would be an indirect attack such as attacking Banner's soul or some such. His energy projection will be just as ineffective as his fists if Loki doesn't want to get hit. That's okay because he won't. Okay? I don't really care.