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there's a lack of feats, so implied power is best bet

assume they are out for the kill since neither wants the other to ever interfere with/alter their agents on Earth again.

Cyttorak Stomps

Cytorrak was talking a lot of shit about the Serpent and getting revenge.

I don't think Serpent can do a thing to Cytorrak.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Cytorrak was talking a lot of shit about the Serpent and getting revenge.

yeah, but i couldn't really decide what that meant to their respective power levels. none of the assembled demons seemed all that interested in directly challenging the serpent..... even mephisto said it was crazy to attack him directly. i want to say that scene implied serpend>any of the assembled demons, at least individually, but it's hard to say for certain.

They never faced off so all we have to go by is either implied power or feats. In terms of implied power I'd say Serpent. He's gone up against Odin and no Demon Lord wants a piece of him. Cyttorak was the big bully in the War of the Seven Heavens showdown over who would get to claim Strange as their soldier, till the Vishanti showed up and put a stop to the bickering, so that's got to count for something (but I still say Serpent).

In a war between Cyttorak's Avatar and Serpent's minion, Cyttorak's Avatar came out on top with the Serpent TPing his slave away at the last second before a huge blast could potentially kill him. Having said that, Cyttorak only has one avatar, the Serpent powers seven Worthy plus his one herald (Skadi). So I'm going with the Serpent here again.

As of now : Serpent (but this is all speculation).

Originally posted by leonidas
yeah, but i couldn't really decide what that meant to their respective power levels. none of the assembled demons seemed all that interested in directly challenging the serpent..... even mephisto said it was crazy to attack him directly. i want to say that scene implied serpend>any of the assembled demons, at least individually, but it's hard to say for certain.

That was an interesting scene. A lot of guys in that one scan, with Shuma Gorath flying around as well.

Serpent doesn't have a lot going for him right now. The shield so far is his only noteworthy feat.

The Silver Surfer said the Serpents might threatened to surpass the Power Cosmic.

mmm

Originally posted by leonidas
yeah, but i couldn't really decide what that meant to their respective power levels. none of the assembled demons seemed all that interested in directly challenging the serpent..... even mephisto said it was crazy to attack him directly. i want to say that scene implied serpend>any of the assembled demons, at least individually, but it's hard to say for certain.

Didn't Mephisto also say that atleast in pursuing revenge Cyttorak would be unstoppable or something like that?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
The Silver Surfer said the Serpents might threatened to surpass the Power Cosmic.

If Mephisto's little talk with Nightmare is any indicator I'm not surprised, given what Nightmare has accomplished in the past. But then again, it's might, perhaps, someday, somewhere, some time etc.

*Shrug*

I'm just trying to give people an idea of the Serpents power.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
*Shrug*

I'm just trying to give people an idea of the Serpents power.

I'm well aware of that, just a comment that actually built upon you own, because honestly if the Serperts with the fear of humans alone is capable of Challenging Odin, imagine him getting maybe a hundred planets or a thousand, and unlike Nightmare he doesn't require his "slaves" to be asleep, so sure his potential is pretty freaking huge. (Based on the nightmare Mephisto therapy session.)

If his powers can extent in that way, then he'll definitely be beyond Galactus after like one more conquered planet.

Personally, I think he's closer to his peak and can't just keep on growing like the Chaos King. Just mo.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
If his powers can extent in that way, then he'll be beyond Galactus after like one more conquered planet.

Depending on how you percieve the battle between Odin and Galactus etc. yes or no.

Anyways yes the Serpent has potential, based on what Nightmare accomplished (battling Eternity) with feasting on fear.

Originally posted by Utrigita
Depending on how you percieve the battle between Odin and Galactus etc. yes or no.

Anyways yes the Serpent has potential, based on what Nightmare accomplished (battling Eternity) with feasting on fear.

Even if someone is more Galactus biased, they can't possibly believe the gap was that big. No matter how you think the two came off looking individually, Odin still fought a fed Galactus and severely injured him, reducing him to a hungry state.

Perhaps. We'll have to wait and see. I wonder how this arc will reflect on Odin and where his power comes from.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Even if someone is more Galactus biased, they can't possibly believe the gap was that big. No matter how you think the two came off looking, Odin still fought a fed Galactus and severely injured him, reducing him to a hungry state.

This is not the place Rage

As for the topic itself, yes the Serpent has potential but I don't know how much to lay into Mephistos comment concerning Cyttorak.

Originally posted by Utrigita
This is not the place Rage

As for the topic itself, yes the Serpent has potential but I don't know how much to lay into Mephistos comment concerning Cyttorak.
Fair enough.

IIRC, when Mephisto said Cytorrak was unstoppable, he was referring to his shit talking.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Fair enough.

IIRC, when Mephisto said Cytorrak was unstoppable, he was referring to his shit talking.

I just want a bit more information regarding the fight before I turn it into a all out trench war

It's entirely possible, I couldn't quite get if Mephisto was refering to Cyttorak seeking revenge or was making fun of his general avatars.

Originally posted by Utrigita
based on what Nightmare accomplished (battling Eternity) with feasting on fear.

But didn't Nightmare's trick involve the fact that at any one time a good chunk of the sentient beings in the Universe are asleep and that's what he used to put Eternity into a coma? It wasn't anything to do with fear.
http://marvel.com/universe/Eternity

It is now canon that gods in the Marvel Universe are powered by faith. I don't know what the Serpents power levels without leeching of the Earths populations fear would be.

The story of Odin vs. the Serpent was told in New Mutants #31. I presume he was powered by an entire population the last time that happened and Odin scorched the Earth back then too in order to prevent it from happening.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
It is now canon that gods in the Marvel Universe are powered by faith. I don't know what the Serpents power levels without leeching of the Earths populations fear would be.

It was mentioned by Odin in Thor Annual 5

It was mentioned earlier in Incredible Hercules #117 by Athena, that if the Skulls conquer Earth and humanity is displaced and the Gods forgotten/not worshiped that Atum would come and destroy them all.

And now this. It's almost beyond dispute now that Earth Gods in Marvel depend on their worshipers.

where does this battle take place? if it's in the crimson cosmos, cyttorak would win.

Originally posted by zopzop
They never faced off so all we have to go by is either implied power or feats. In terms of implied power I'd say Serpent. He's gone up against Odin and no Demon Lord wants a piece of him. Cyttorak was the big bully in the War of the Seven Heavens showdown over who would get to claim Strange as their soldier, till the Vishanti showed up and put a stop to the bickering, so that's got to count for something (but I still say Serpent).

In a war between Cyttorak's Avatar and Serpent's minion, Cyttorak's Avatar came out on top with the Serpent TPing his slave away at the last second before a huge blast could potentially kill him. Having said that, Cyttorak only has one avatar, the Serpent powers seven Worthy plus his one herald (Skadi). So I'm going with the Serpent here again.

As of now : Serpent (but this is all speculation).

Possibly another avatar of Cyttorak: Behemoth.
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/maneleph.htm

As for the Hell Lords not wanting to fight the Serpent, that's weird considering Shuma Gorath, Dormammu, and Asteroth were there during the gathering. Even Galactus took notice of Asteroth when she arrived. Given a chance, Asteroth was implied to consume the universe. Sounds more like the new bad guy is getting played up at the expense of the veterans. For now it's implied he may be more powerful than any hell lord but in time I have no doubt his power ranking will drop. I would like to also add that Shuma Gorath, Dormammu, and Cyttorak are not Hell Lords truly. Some writers like to put them in that category for a few stories but none act like Hell Lords at all. No one travels into their extra dimension by dying.

For now, I'll go with Cyttorak. Being the new kid on the block and getting a break from writers doesn't do it for me.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Possibly another avatar of Cyttorak: Behemoth.
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/maneleph.htm

As for the Hell Lords not wanting to fight the Serpent, that's weird considering Shuma Gorath, Dormammu, and Asteroth were there during the gathering. Even Galactus took notice of Asteroth when she arrived. Given a chance, Asteroth was implied to consume the universe. Sounds more like the new bad guy is getting played up at the expense of the veterans. For now it's implied he may be more powerful than any hell lord but in time I have no doubt his power ranking will drop. I would like to also add that Shuma Gorath, Dormammu, and Cyttorak are not Hell Lords truly. Some writers like to put them in that category for a few stories but none act like Hell Lords at all. No one travels into their extra dimension by dying.

For now, I'll go with Cyttorak. Being the new kid on the block and getting a break from writers doesn't do it for me.

That's interesting, I've never even heard of Behemoth.

But yeah that scan made zero sense (the one with the demon Congress). Gorath, Dormammu, Asteroth are AT LEAST Odin level and Odin waxed Serpent and his minions (check out the New Mutants Fear Itself tie in). Meh, Fraction is turning out to be Bendis lite.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Possibly another avatar of Cyttorak: Behemoth.
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/maneleph.htm

As for the Hell Lords not wanting to fight the Serpent, that's weird considering Shuma Gorath, Dormammu, and Asteroth were there during the gathering. Even Galactus took notice of Asteroth when she arrived. Given a chance, Asteroth was implied to consume the universe. Sounds more like the new bad guy is getting played up at the expense of the veterans. For now it's implied he may be more powerful than any hell lord but in time I have no doubt his power ranking will drop. I would like to also add that Shuma Gorath, Dormammu, and Cyttorak are not Hell Lords truly. Some writers like to put them in that category for a few stories but none act like Hell Lords at all. No one travels into their extra dimension by dying.

For now, I'll go with Cyttorak. Being the new kid on the block and getting a break from writers doesn't do it for me.

I'd like to know why Jesus Christ was joining them in there.

http://i898.photobucket.com/albums/ac186/Sise-Neg/2021101-journey_into_mystery_627_013___copy__2_.jpg

Originally posted by CortSether
I'd like to know why Jesus Christ was joining them in there.

Marvel Jesus is a Hell Lord yah didn't know? Probably one of Gaea's sons but degenerated into a Hell Lord after killing his disciples and consuming them.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Possibly another avatar of Cyttorak: Behemoth.
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/maneleph.htm

As for the Hell Lords not wanting to fight the Serpent, that's weird considering Shuma Gorath, Dormammu, and Asteroth were there during the gathering. Even Galactus took notice of Asteroth when she arrived. Given a chance, Asteroth was implied to consume the universe. Sounds more like the new bad guy is getting played up at the expense of the veterans. For now it's implied he may be more powerful than any hell lord but in time I have no doubt his power ranking will drop. I would like to also add that Shuma Gorath, Dormammu, and Cyttorak are not Hell Lords truly. Some writers like to put them in that category for a few stories but none act like Hell Lords at all. No one travels into their extra dimension by dying.

For now, I'll go with Cyttorak. Being the new kid on the block and getting a break from writers doesn't do it for me.

Aestroth presence was causing devastation across the universe without even truly attacking it. I think that statement was pretty much true.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Possibly another avatar of Cyttorak: Behemoth.
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/maneleph.htm

As for the Hell Lords not wanting to fight the Serpent, that's weird considering Shuma Gorath, Dormammu, and Asteroth were there during the gathering. Even Galactus took notice of Asteroth when she arrived. Given a chance, Asteroth was implied to consume the universe. Sounds more like the new bad guy is getting played up at the expense of the veterans. For now it's implied he may be more powerful than any hell lord but in time I have no doubt his power ranking will drop. I would like to also add that Shuma Gorath, Dormammu, and Cyttorak are not Hell Lords truly. Some writers like to put them in that category for a few stories but none act like Hell Lords at all. No one travels into their extra dimension by dying.

For now, I'll go with Cyttorak. Being the new kid on the block and getting a break from writers doesn't do it for me.

Looks like Set was there too. I think the illustrator was just being dumb. Why would Elder Gods and extra-dimensional entities even care about being considered "Satan"?

Originally posted by CortSether
Looks like Set was there too. I think the illustrator was just being dumb. Why would Elder Gods and extra-dimensional entities even care about being considered "Satan"?

He's trying to connect the pieces group them. It's a nice cameo for them but they don't really belong there except Chthon.

Any scan of the panel with the hell lords

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
He's trying to connect the pieces group them. It's a nice cameo for them but they don't really belong there except Chthon.

I can understand the parallels between Chthon and Satan, but he's not supposed to be able to leave his dimension since it's said that it would take too much energy for a dimensional rift large enough, which is why he has to use hosts. At least that's how I remember the explanation.

Is this It

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/57606/1546651-monsters.jpg

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
Is this It

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/57606/1546651-monsters.jpg

WTH? Where is that from?

Originally posted by zopzop
WTH? Where is that from? Lol why did you say wth?

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
Lol why did you say wth?

I'm usually on point when it comes to Elder God appearances but I never saw that. Where is it from?

Originally posted by zopzop
I'm usually on point when it comes to Elder God appearances but I never saw that. Where is it from? I have no idea, i found it in chthon comicvine bio

Originally posted by zopzop
But didn't Nightmare's trick involve the fact that at any one time a good chunk of the sentient beings in the Universe are asleep and that's what he used to put Eternity into a coma? It wasn't anything to do with fear.
http://marvel.com/universe/Eternity

I was under the impression that it was because of the fact that 1/3 of the universe fell asleep and nightmare giving them nightmares, in turn feasting on their fear was capable of accomplishing what he did.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Possibly another avatar of Cyttorak: Behemoth.
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/maneleph.htm

As for the Hell Lords not wanting to fight the Serpent, that's weird considering Shuma Gorath, Dormammu, and Asteroth were there during the gathering. Even Galactus took notice of Asteroth when she arrived. Given a chance, Asteroth was implied to consume the universe. Sounds more like the new bad guy is getting played up at the expense of the veterans. For now it's implied he may be more powerful than any hell lord but in time I have no doubt his power ranking will drop. I would like to also add that Shuma Gorath, Dormammu, and Cyttorak are not Hell Lords truly. Some writers like to put them in that category for a few stories but none act like Hell Lords at all. No one travels into their extra dimension by dying.

For now, I'll go with Cyttorak. Being the new kid on the block and getting a break from writers doesn't do it for me.

While I agree with most of what you say ( not quite imo taking the OP into consideration but nvm) I'm curious if you couldn't apply the exact same logic to Asteroth as your doing to the Serpent?

since Serpent avatar Kuurth is more powerful than Cyttorak avatar Juggernaut..i'm gonna say Serpent wins..

except kurrth.... lost.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
It is now canon that gods in the Marvel Universe are powered by faith. I don't know what the Serpents power levels without leeching of the Earths populations fear would be.

The story of Odin vs. the Serpent was told in New Mutants #31. I presume he was powered by an entire population the last time that happened and Odin scorched the Earth back then too in order to prevent it from happening.

While I think it's clear that worship can affect the power of Gods to different degrees depending on the writer, for the most part, a large chunk of their might is independent from worship. I wouldn't apply the Serpent's method of gaining power across the board. At least not yet.

I'm not sure whether it was the human race or not (The Serpent/Odin struggle seems to predate it) but this isn't the first time Odin has purged a place and wiped all memory of the Serpent from creation.

Originally posted by leonidas
except kurrth.... lost.

it was clearly state in the comic that Kurrth is more powerful than Jugg in every ways..he lost because of his own power..

"Schism" and "Fear Itself" are easy -- "Fear Itself" happens before "Schism" (the only thing which would be confusing is Colossus' lack of a Juggernaut dome. However, the end of "Fear Itself" showed he could retract his armor. More will become clear as we go into "Uncanny X-" #1 about Colossus' relationship with the Juggernaut energies, but the short version is "it's something he consciously chooses to tap." In other words, in "Schism," he simply didn't.)

So it's basically that simple, he's been trying to hold it back. He's trying to control it unlike Cain. He will probably be like the Hulk, he starts out with his typical class 100 strength and then when the need arises he'll tap into Cyttorak. At least it will now make sense when he "team jobs" all over the place...

Not saying Big C is more powerful... have no idea who is more powerful between the two. But maybe thats the explanation behind his lack of force field etc....Colossus bleeding is PIS by the way.

there's no need to complicate things..it was right there in the comic..Colossus says that Kurrth is more powerful,stronger and faster..his only advantage is he's unstoppable..and he seems to go all out on Kurrth..looks to me like he's enjoying the fight..

Originally posted by Slaanesh
there's no need to complicate things..it was right there in the comic..Colossus says that Kurrth is more powerful,stronger and faster..his only advantage is he's unstoppable..and he seems to go all out on Kurrth..looks to me like he's enjoying the fight..

seems pretty weird for someone who is more powerful to get thrown around like a rag doll and pushed back even if every step back was a step closer to his destruction.

If he was really more powerful shouldn't he been able to STOP the Unstoppable Colossus?

Originally posted by Slaanesh
it was clearly state in the comic that Kurrth is more powerful than Jugg in every ways..he lost because of his own power..

yeah, that's fine, but ultimately colossus STILL beat him--his 'ability/power' was too great for kurrth to overcome. so who was really more powerful...?

bottomline--cyttorak's boy was gonna kill serpent's and serpent's guy had to be teleported away.

isn't cyttorak multiversal i.e. only one crimson cosmos. If so he could always recall all the juggernaut enhancements and wreck serpent imo...

Originally posted by nwg202
seems pretty weird for someone who is more powerful to get thrown around like a rag doll and pushed back even if every step back was a step closer to his destruction.

If he was really more powerful shouldn't he been able to STOP the Unstoppable Colossus?

the writer says Kuurth is more powerful..that's all there is to it..he clearly wanted to show that Jugg was unstoppable..doesn't make him more powerful than Kuurth..why??because the writer said so..


Originally posted by leonidas
yeah, that's fine, but ultimately colossus STILL beat him--his 'ability/power' was too great for kurrth to overcome. so who was really more powerful...?

bottomline--cyttorak's boy was gonna kill serpent's and serpent's guy had to be teleported away.

Kuurth was more powerful of coz..i get that from what i read..i don't know how u read it..but that's what i get from it..

Originally posted by Slaanesh
the writer says Kuurth is more powerful..that's all there is to it..he clearly wanted to show that Jugg was unstoppable..doesn't make him more powerful than Kuurth..why??because the writer said so..




Kuurth was more powerful of coz..i get that from what i read..i don't know how u read it..but that's what i get from it..

just depends on how you define 'more powerful'. he had a massive weapon, he may have been stronger, but.... what did those things mean in the end? colossus was more powerful as regards durability and unstoppability, clearly. and that won him the fight.

Originally posted by leonidas
just depends on how you define 'more powerful'. he had a massive weapon, he may have been stronger, but.... what did those things mean in the end? colossus was more powerful as regards durability and unstoppability, clearly. and that won him the fight.

it says he's more powerful in every way except Jugg is unstoppable..Kurrth is beaten by his own power..not Jugg..i don't know what u are arguing about..it's right there in the comic..

in everyway except unstoppability and durability. juggs was more powerful--stronger, better weapon--but what did it matter? who won the fight? he was beaten by his own power because the cyttorak enchantment>juggs' serpent amps. i'm not sure what you're arguing about either. the result speaks for itself.

Originally posted by leonidas
in everyway except unstoppability and durability. juggs was more powerful--stronger, better weapon--but what did it matter? who won the fight? he was beaten by his own power because the cyttorak enchantment>juggs' serpent amps. i'm not sure what you're arguing about either. the result speaks for itself.

it matters cuz what i said was true..Kuurth is more powerful..u said it yourself..it doesn't matter if he lose he's still more powerful..that's all i've been trying to say..u keep bringing up Jugg beat him..i don't care about that..all i care is Kuurth is more powerful..

It's pretty clear by on panel evidence that Kuurth, durability wise at least, was no where near Colossunaught level. As soon as Colossusnaught was about to push Kuurth into the Runes and cause that huge explosion, the Serpent tped Kuurth away because he didn't want him to be destroyed. Colossusnaught wasn't as lucky and TANKED that big ass blast and kept right on charging. That right there told me who was winning that fight.

Originally posted by zopzop
It's pretty clear by on panel evidence that Kuurth, durability wise at least, was no where near Colossunaught level. As soon as Colossusnaught was about to push Kuurth into the Runes and cause that huge explosion, the Serpent tped Kuurth away because he didn't want him to be destroyed. Colossusnaught wasn't as lucky and TANKED that big ass blast and kept right on charging. That right there told me who was winning that fight.

agreed.

Originally posted by Slaanesh
it matters cuz what i said was true..Kuurth is more powerful..u said it yourself..it doesn't matter if he lose he's still more powerful..that's all i've been trying to say..u keep bringing up Jugg beat him..i don't care about that..all i care is Kuurth is more powerful..



who....
won.....
the.....
fight................?

kuurth's "power" advantage was<colossus's advantage since he was getting his a$$ kicked. whatever serpent gave was NOT enough to let juggs win. ergo, the POWER he gave to juggs was NOT enough. so, if he was stronger, and had a better weapon, who the hell cares?

Originally posted by Slaanesh
it matters cuz what i said was true..Kuurth is more powerful..u said it yourself..it doesn't matter if he lose he's still more powerful..that's all i've been trying to say..u keep bringing up Jugg beat him..i don't care about that..all i care is Kuurth is more powerful..

Not really even. Kuurth was stronger and broke Cluggernaut's bones but than that didn't really even slow him down. That's how powerful Cyttorak's avatar is.

Here's a reminder of what Cyttorak's avatar is all about.
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/3/36536/1142485-mystic1_super.jpg

Kuurth is more powerful than Jugg..it was said on panel..i don't care that he lose..he's more powerful..i'm not gonna agree with u guys..

Originally posted by Slaanesh
Kuurth is more powerful than Jugg..it was said on panel..i don't care that he lose..he's more powerful..i'm not gonna agree with u guys..

So how come he couldn't push Cluggernaut back? Would make sense if he was more powerful than him that he would be able to stop Cluggernaut's momentum right?

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
So how come he couldn't push Cluggernaut back? Would make sense if he was more powerful than him that he would be able to stop Cluggernaut's momentum right?

how the hell would i know..i'm not the writer..but the writer said Kuurth is more powerful..that's all that matters..maybe the writer wanted to prove that Jugg is unstoppable..even someone more powerful won't be able to stop him..that's what Jugg said in the comic..

Originally posted by Slaanesh
Kuurth is more powerful than Jugg..it was said on panel..i don't care that he lose..he's more powerful..i'm not gonna agree with u guys.. Lol would you give up already?

Colossus doesnt really know how powerful he is, that was just his opinions

nope

Yep, having his bones broken in his mind means he thought kuurth was more powerful were as we dont know the extent of kuurths injuries,

And colossus taked a blast that would have killed kuurth . Thats that

i disagree..he knows what he's talking about..what he says is what the writer think..

Originally posted by Slaanesh
i disagree..he knows what he's talking about..what he says is what the writer think.. No. What he says is what he thinks.

he's the one fighting..he knows what he's talking about..