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The ultimate wizard from Harry Potter meets the ultimate wizard from Lord of the Rings. Gandalf is substituted in here and is aiding Harry Potter. His mission is bring down Voldemort. He catches him alone in the school of Hogwarts. Two men enter one man leaves.

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But in all seriousness, Potterverse magic (IMO at least) seems far more efficient and effective than Middle Earth magic, so I think Voldemort can take this

Easily.

Gandalf > the Balrog > Voldermort /truth

Originally posted by Robtard
Gandalf > the Balrog > Voldermort /truth Based on what ? How long would it take Voldemort to beat the Balrog ?

Voldemort.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Based on what ?

How long would it take Voldemort to beat the Balrog ?

The films.

He couldn't, which is the point of Gandalf > the Balrog > Voldermort.

Originally posted by Robtard
The films.

He couldn't, which is the point of Gandalf > the Balrog > Voldermort. One avada kedavra would be all it takes. He's powerful enough to bring down a protective barrier that seemed far more durable than a Balrog.

Gandalf uses the spell that was knocking Nazghul around in the air, which proceeds to break all of Voldemort's bones, killing him.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Gandalf uses the spell that was knocking Nazghul around in the air, which proceeds to break all of Voldemort's bones, killing him. Gandalf had his staff easily broken by the Witch King. Voldemort's far more powerful than Gandalf and has much deadlier spells and is by far more powerful.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Gandalf had his staff easily broken by the Witch King. Voldemort's far more powerful than Gandalf and has much deadlier spells and is by far more powerful. Voldemort isn't the Witch King.

Your argument sucks.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Gandalf uses the spell that was knocking Nazghul around in the air, which proceeds to break all of Voldemort's bones, killing him.

Can you post that scene?

I think he's referring to Gandalf's flashlight trick in RotK. While he's busy trying that on Voldemort, he'll be dropping dead from a Killing Curse.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I think he's referring to Gandalf's flashlight trick in RotK. While he's busy trying that on Voldemort, he'll be dropping dead from a Killing Curse. I'm afraid you are mistaken.

The "flashlight" was shown to have tangible effects on the Nazghul and their mounts.

This will kill or seriously injure Voldemort on impact.

Oh, and Avada Kedavra can be blocked by rocks or a mother's love. The notion that it can affect a Maiar is pretty amusing.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Gandalf uses the spell that was knocking Nazghul around in the air, which proceeds to break all of Voldemort's bones, killing him.

Originally posted by Robtard
Gandalf > the Balrog > Voldermort /truth




Plus staffs are bigger than wands.

Originally posted by quanchi112
One avada kedavra would be all it takes. He's powerful enough to bring down a protective barrier that seemed far more durable than a Balrog.

Death spell has to hit first and it can both be dodged or block by something as mundane as a wooden door.

Voldermort took on a protective shield, big whup. Barriers don't hit back; Balrogs do.

I'm just not seeing it. Potter magic just seems far to versatile and efficient for Gandalf to overcome

Originally posted by NemeBro
Voldemort isn't the Witch King.

Your argument sucks. No, it doesn't considering one kill spell is all he needs and he dies. One flick of his wrist and Gandalf dies. Originally posted by Robtard
Death spell has to hit first and it can both be dodged or block by something as mundane as a wooden door.

Voldermort took on a protective shield, big whup. Barriers don't hit back; Balrogs do. When did Gandalf show off his acrobatic I will dodge your attacks type stuff ? Balrogs can't close the distance on someone who can teleport and has offensive power and a one shot kill spell in their arsenal like Voldemort.

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, it doesn't considering one kill spell is all he needs and he dies. No.

Originally posted by Robtard

Voldermort took on a protective shield, big whup. Barriers don't hit back; Balrogs do.

Aren't you just reversing your argument from the "McClane vs Van Zan" thread?

Originally posted by quanchi112
When did Gandalf show off his acrobatic I will dodge your attacks type stuff ?

Balrogs can't close the distance on someone who can teleport and has offensive power and a one shot kill spell in their arsenal like Voldemort.

When? Hahaahaahaahaha. When he was fast enough to stop/counter Legolas's arrow, Gimli's hatchet and Aragorn all at once.

That's a non sequitor response. Gandalf > the Balrog > Voldermort

Originally posted by Robtard
When? Hahaahaahaahaha. When he was fast enough to stop/counter Legolas's arrow, Gimli's hatchet and Aragorn all at once.

That's a non sequitor response. Gandalf > the Balrog > Voldermort He blinded them and didn't dodge anything. Nice try.

Gandalf stands there while the Witch King destroys his staff like a chooch and fights hand to hand most of the time.

Voldemort kills people all the time with the killing curse with minor flicks of his wrist in a world of wizards not a world of hobbits and orcs.

Originally posted by NemeBro
No. So Gandalf somehow survives ? Seriously, bro.Originally posted by Lestov16
Aren't you just reversing your argument from the "McClane vs Van Zan" thread? I see you are catching onto his game of double standards.

Originally posted by NemeBro
I'm afraid you are mistaken.

The "flashlight" was shown to have tangible effects on the Nazghul and their mounts.

This will kill or seriously injure Voldemort on impact.

UeXAz_pGAHE


http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-crossarms.gif


Er........ this scene?

Originally posted by Nephthys
UeXAz_pGAHE


http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-crossarms.gif


Er........ this scene? This is the most laughable stance ever seen taken by Nemebro at this point. He just made stuff up and you called him out. Well done. He said kill him on impact.

Originally posted by Nephthys
UeXAz_pGAHE


http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-crossarms.gif


Er........ this scene? Yep, that scene.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Yep, that scene.

http://i.neoseeker.com/mgv/60953-Shadow%20of%20Death/953/109/applejack_notsureifserious_display.png

Originally posted by NemeBro
Yep, that scene. Where is this scene are they shown injured or almost killed ?

It can physically move and push the large Nazghul creatures whose names I forget.

Clearly that makes it what? Class 5 at least.

Enough to kill Voldemort.

Originally posted by NemeBro
It can physically move and push the large Nazghul creatures whose names I forget.

Clearly that makes it what? Class 5 at least.

Enough to kill Voldemort.

It didn't 'push' or 'move' anything. It was a bright light and they got spooked by it.

Class 5 feathers maybe.

I didn't realise Voldemort had the same disease as the villian from Unbreakable in this thread.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He blinded them and didn't dodge anything. Nice try.

Gandalf stands there while the Witch King destroys his staff like a chooch and fights hand to hand most of the time.

Voldemort kills people all the time with the killing curse with minor flicks of his wrist in a world of wizards not a world of hobbits and orcs.


He countered/blocked both the arrow and axe. Death spell won't be a problem. So nice try with you trying to downplay; it's not happening though.

Witch King > Voldermort too. So you have no point.

Death spell is fail against Gandalf as shown above, accept it.

Originally posted by NemeBro
It can physically move and push the large Nazghul creatures whose names I forget.

Clearly that makes it what? Class 5 at least.

Enough to kill Voldemort. It drove them off they weren't shown to harbor any physical pain and a torch once drove them off wielded by Aragorn I guess the torch is all that's needed to kill Voldemort under your loopy logic.

In fact I am saving your post for every time I need a laugh.

Originally posted by Nephthys
It didn't 'push' or 'move' anything. It was a bright light and they got spooked by it.

Class 5 feathers maybe.

I didn't realise Voldemort had the same disease as the villian from Unbreakable in this thread. It physically drove them off, obviously.

Originally posted by Robtard
He countered/blocked both the arrow and axe. Death spell won't be a problem. His staff gets broken then since it destroys what it hits followed by another killing spell.

Originally posted by quanchi112
It drove them off they weren't shown to harbor any physical pain and a torch once drove them off wielded by Aragorn I guess the torch is all that's needed to kill Voldemort under your loopy logic.

In fact I am saving your post for every time I need a laugh. A torch jammed in Voldemort's head would indeed kill him were it not for horcruxes.

You are learning.

Originally posted by quanchi112
His staff gets broken then since it destroys what it hits followed by another killing spell.

Nice of you to edit my post and ignore the points that destroyed yours.

Witch King > Voldermort. Voldermort isn't breaking Gandalf's stave.

Gandalf blinds Voldermort and then cuts his head off. Or he could just TK him to death; I prefer the former.

Originally posted by NemeBro
A torch jammed in Voldemort's head would indeed kill him were it not for horcruxes.

You are learning. Just because a torch defeated Nazgul that doesn't mean a man wildly swinging it beats Voldemort. Just like a light that drives off a few Nazgul wouldn't drive off Voldemort. The funny thing is you claimed hurt or kill when nothing even close to that is even hinted at.

Originally posted by Robtard
Nice of you to edit my post and ignore the points that destroyed yours.

Witch King > Voldermort. Voldermort isn't breaking Gandalf's stave.

Gandalf blinds Voldermort and then cuts his head off. Or he could just TK him to death; I prefer the former. You edited your post. I don't ever skip or delete your post.

A man once defeated the Witch King by wildly swinging a torch so no he isn't even in the same league as Voldemort.

We see his stave broken and we see the killing curse break whatever it hits yet you claim it resists. LOL.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Just because a torch defeated Nazgul that doesn't mean a man wildly swinging it beats Voldemort. Just like a light that drives off a few Nazgul wouldn't drive off Voldemort. The funny thing is you claimed hurt or kill when nothing even close to that is even hinted at.

Even if the light doesn't hurt Voldemort (It will) it will still blind him.

And TK sufficient to harm Gandalf/Saruman will kill Voldemort pretty good.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You edited your post. I don't ever skip or delete your post.

A man once defeated the Witch King by wildly swinging a torch so no he isn't even in the same league as Voldemort.

We see his stave broken and we see the killing curse break whatever it hits yet you claim it resists. LOL.

If you say so.

If Voldermort's robe were lite of fire, he would be crying as well. Witch King screams, Voldermort is feared and his twig shatters.

Death spell can be blocked by stone and wood. Gandalf's stave > a tombstone and wooden door.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Even if the light doesn't hurt Voldemort (It will) it will still blind him.

And TK sufficient to harm Gandalf/Saruman will kill Voldemort pretty good. Based off of what can we conclude it hurts anyone ? You are making the claim and in the scene there's no physical pain even hinted at so please back it up.

So a light can blind and defeat Voldemort ? You've got to be kidding. I mean wtf. Based off of what in the hp films suggest shining a bright light in Voldemort's face bests him....really ?

Voldemort kills him with one spell. The tk was just causing minor cuts and bruises. Voldemort kills him despite maybe being scratched by tk.

Originally posted by Robtard
If you say so.

If Voldermort's robe were lite of fire, he would be crying as well. Witch King screams, Voldermort is feared and his twig shatters.

Death spell can be blocked by stone and wood. Gandalf's stave > a tombstone and wooden door. Voldemort is more powerful than the Witch King and it only works on someone you are more powerful than. Voldemort avada kedavra's faster than the Witch King can do so anyways.

Gandalf's stave can be destroyed and no matter the object it gets destroyed.

Can't Voldemort just pull out the Fiendfyre and flame-grill Gandalf? I know he fought the Balrog, but i don't think he's fireproof

Originally posted by Lestov16
Can't Voldemort just pull out the Fiendfyre and flame-grill Gandalf? I know he fought the Balrog, but i don't think he's fireproof Yes. He has a variety of ways in which he can kill gandalf.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Voldemort is more powerful than the Witch King and it only works on someone you are more powerful than. Voldemort avada kedavra's faster than the Witch King can do so anyways.

Gandalf's stave can be destroyed and no matter the object it gets destroyed.

How is someone who is a chicken-shit at heart, would be cowering in fear and have most of his magic taken away the second his little wand explodes be more powerful? Ava Kedavara wouldn't work on the Witch King, he's already dead, dude.

By someone more magically powerful and has the power of "death" at his disposal, Voldermort isn't, thanks for playing.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes. He has a variety of ways in which he can kill gandalf.

While this is true in the general sense, it's not Ava Kedavara or Fiend Fyre. As proven, death spell can be blocked and that fire spell is too slow. Gandalf wasn't bothered my the Balrog's flaming body and magma, so even if Fiend Fyre were a fast casting spell, it might not bother Gandalf.

Only way Voldermort can realistically win here is if Gandalf commits suicide.

Originally posted by Robtard
How is someone who is a chicken-shit at heart, would be cowering in fear and have most of his magic taken away the second his little wand explodes be more powerful? Ava Kedavara wouldn't work on the Witch King, he's already dead, dude.

By someone more magically powerful and has the power of "death" at his disposal, Voldermort isn't, thanks for playing. It attacks the soul, bro. He'd be released from his prison.

A fire basilisk would own the Witch King since a torch already owned him and fire is a huge weakness.

Voldemort isn't a chicken at heart the entire wizarding world won't even mention his name he's that scary. The Witch King wouldn't last a few minutes against him.

Fire basilisk or avada kedavra.

Originally posted by quanchi112
It attacks the soul, bro. He'd be released from his prison.

A fire basilisk would own the Witch King since a torch already owned him and fire is a huge weakness.

Voldemort isn't a chicken at heart the entire wizarding world won't even mention his name he's that scary. The Witch King wouldn't last a few minutes against him.

Fire basilisk or avada kedavra.

He's undead. He has no soul, Sauron took it already.

Voldermort's not a basilisk and the Witch King's Fell Beast > a basilisk.

Voldermort is a coward at heart; this is a defining character trait. Witch King would just exploit his cowardice and fear him into submission/wetting himself.

Stop trying to derail the thread with the Witch King though, he's not here, luckily for Voldermort.

Originally posted by Robtard
He's undead. He has no soul, Sauron took it already.

Voldermort's not a basilisk and the Witch King's Fell Beast > a basilisk.

Voldermort is a coward at heart; this is a defining character trait. Witch King would just exploit his cowardice and fear him into submission/wetting himself.

Stop trying to derail the thread with the Witch King though, he's not here, luckily for Voldermort. He does have a soul. If he didn't have a soul he wouldn't be able to survive. LOL.

Voldemort can create a basilisk which is greater than a torch that defeated him.

Voldemort is afraid of death not Gandalf. Gandalf was afraid of the power ring the wussie. Witch King is afraid of torches and fire. Voldemort could crush the Witch King and gandalf at the same time.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He does have a soul. If he didn't have a soul he wouldn't be able to survive. LOL.

Voldemort can create a basilisk which is greater than a torch that defeated him.

Voldemort is afraid of death not Gandalf. Gandalf was afraid of the power ring the wussie. Witch King is afraid of torches and fire. Voldemort could crush the Witch King and gandalf at the same time.

Yeah, that made no sense.

Voldermort's would be feared into crying in the corner and his wand would be shattered before that spell went off.

Considering Gandalf would be bringing death upon Voldermort, he'd probably piss himself at the mere sight of Gandalf too.

Stop trying to derail the thread with the Witch King. If you need to be spanked in a Voldermort Vs With King thread too, go make one.

Originally posted by Robtard
Yeah, that made no sense.

Voldermort's would be feared into crying in the corner and his wand would be shattered before that spell went off.

Considering Gandalf would be bringing death upon Voldermort, he'd probably piss himself at the mere sight of Gandalf too.

Stop trying to derail the thread with the Witch King. If you need to be spanked in a Voldermort Vs With King thread too, go make one. The point is Sauron controlled him he didn't take his soul out of his body or anything. If so provide the proof.

Orcs didn't even fear Gandalf the White. Who feared the guy ? really ? Voldemort scared an entire world. He's basically harry potter's Sauron. The big bad villain who intimidates his entire fictional universe.

Voldemort is a less powerful Dumbledore with a less powerful staff than the Elder wand. He'd welcome Gandalf to come on in.

I am glad you concede Voldemort beats the pair.

Originally posted by Robtard
While this is true in the general sense, it's not Ava Kedavara or Fiend Fyre. As proven, death spell can be blocked and that fire spell is too slow. Gandalf wasn't bothered my the Balrog's flaming body and magma, so even if Fiend Fyre were a fast casting spell, it might not bother Gandalf.

Only way Voldermort can realistically win here is if Gandalf commits suicide. The spell destroys what it hits so Gandalf losing his staff means he is screwed. The fire basilisk isn't that slow and is very powerful. gandalf isn't known for his graceful speedy moves either.

Gandalf is nowhere near as formidable or powerful as Voldemort.

Voldemort cannot kill the Witch King of Angmar for a few reasons:

1. The prophecy of 'No man can kill me' - If I remember correctly, wasn't it Eowyn who killed the Witch King. Voldy is a man, therefore reason # 1
2. The Witch King was neither living or dead. He was enslaved to power of the Ring/s therefore reason # 2.

Why can't Voldy defeat Gandalf? Didn't Gandalf say to Aragorn "300 lifetimes I have spent and now I have no time." How old is Voldemort? Gandalf probably has far more powers at his disposal and has fought in numerous wars. Gandalf is the fantasy equalivant of Anderson Silva.

Voldy's a man?


I'll need confirmation of that. http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-colbert.gif

Originally posted by Darth Truculent
Voldemort cannot kill the Witch King of Angmar for a few reasons:

1. The prophecy of 'No man can kill me' - If I remember correctly, wasn't it Eowyn who killed the Witch King. Voldy is a man, therefore reason # 1 Voldemort has the killing curse which isn't on the table in lotr. He also can defeat him with a giant fire basilisk since a torch previously did so.

His soul/body was still bound to Sauron and he was still defeated in the movies despite this.
He might have more powers and probably does which I am sure will see in the Hobbit but let's not speculate as to how formidable they will be. I also know Voldemort's powers are pretty formidable as he stands now. I doubt Gandalf will have anything as impressive as the killing curse or the giant fire basilisk.

Voldemort is the baddest wizard in a world of wizards.

Gandalf wins. His magiks is older.

Originally posted by the ninjak
Gandalf wins. His magiks is older. What does being older have to do with anything ? Voldemort's magic is more powerful and far more formidable.

Originally posted by quanchi112
The spell destroys what it hits so Gandalf losing his staff means he is screwed. The fire basilisk isn't that slow and is very powerful. gandalf isn't known for his graceful speedy moves either.

Gandalf is nowhere near as formidable or powerful as Voldemort.

The spell is designed to kill the living; it can be dodged or blocked though. Maybe learn something first; then argue: http://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Killing_Curse

Also of note, Harry survived the spell before and Gandalf > Harry.

You got that wrong, it's still Gandalf > the Balrog > Harry Potter > Voldermort.

Originally posted by Robtard
The spell is designed to kill the living; it can be dodged or blocked though. Maybe learn something first; then argue: http://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Killing_Curse

Also of note, Harry survived the spell before and Gandalf > Harry.

You got that wrong, it's still Gandalf > the Balrog > Harry Potter > Voldermort. Yes, and the physical barrier while blocked is also destroyed, genius.

Harry survived it because it attacked the part of Voldemort's soul inside him. None of this applies to Gandalf. None of it. Please at least attempt something relevant to this discussion.

Voldemort>>>torch>>>Witch King>gandalf>Balrog.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, and the physical barrier while blocked is also destroyed, genius.

Harry survived it because it attacked the part of Voldemort's soul inside him. None of this applies to Gandalf. None of it. Please at least attempt something relevant to this discussion.

Voldemort>>>torch>>>Witch King>gandalf>Balrog.

Tombstone in one of the films wasn't destroyed, genius.

Gandalf being far more powerful here is relevant to this thread. Please attempt to follow the discussion instead of ranting and bringing in irrelevant points.

Incorrect, again. Gandalf wins.

lol

Thanks for the copy and paste...

Originally posted by Robtard
Tombstone in one of the films wasn't destroyed, genius.

Gandalf being far more powerful here is relevant to this thread. Please attempt to follow the discussion instead of ranting and bringing in irrelevant points.

Incorrect, again. Gandalf wins. Whatever it hits is destroyed. If it hits the titanic the piece it hits get destroyed not the entire ship.

Gandalf doesn't have anything more powerful to bring to the table here which is even remotely as powerful as a giant fire basilisk or the killing curse.

How does Gandalf win ? At least attempt to debate.

As I established in the previous thread, Gandalf is hardly a significant threat to powerful combatants. He doesn't have what it takes to win this.

Originally posted by Nephthys
As I established in the previous thread, Gandalf is hardly a significant threat to powerful combatants. He doesn't have what it takes to win this. If you are referring to the Terminator thread, I pretty handily won that thread. You established nothing at all, short of your ability to deny evidence.

A single telekinetic thrust will cave Voldemort's face in. Gandalf, and by powerscaling, Saruman, are magnitudes more durable than Voldemort. They are injured by eachother's telekinesis.

I don't think I need to prove Gandalf the White is more powerful than both.

A single thrust of his staff, and Voldemort finds himself suffering from a severe case of deadness.

Your butthurt makes me hard.

Your lies are so naughty.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Your butthurt makes me hard.

Your lies are so naughty. If you're going to flaunt your hard-on in front of me, you'd better have the balls to put it to work.

Last time I checked my previous post was unanswered. I'm not the one without the balls to follow through.

Gandalfs TK is weaksauce.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Last time I checked my previous post was unanswered. I'm not the one without the balls to follow through.

Gandalfs TK is weaksauce. Do you brush your face against an anthill, to argue with feeble insects who don't even care to listen?

Also, that was a sexual proposition, but you missed it. A shame, you really missed out. estahuh

In terms of lifting things, I would mostly agree, in that it doesn't seem very prolongable. More a bust of force incited by will really. But it is powerful enough to wound Gandalf and Saruman, who are clearly much much much more durable than Voldemort. It also, Saruman's anyway, was able to propel him toward the top of Isengard's tower.

Also, Gandalf breaks Voldemort's wand ftw, giggity.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Do you brush your face against an anthill, to argue with feeble insects who don't even care to listen?

Also, that was a sexual proposition, but you missed it. A shame, you really missed out. estahuh

In terms of lifting things, I would mostly agree, in that it doesn't seem very prolongable. More a bust of force incited by will really. But it is powerful enough to wound Gandalf and Saruman, who are clearly much much much more durable than Voldemort. It also, Saruman's anyway, was able to propel him toward the top of Isengard's tower.

Also, Gandalf breaks Voldemort's wand ftw, giggity.


Every day. Theres an infestation of the things in the institution.

Dun care. I'm straight anyways.

Gandalf and Saruman are not especially durable at all. And those bursts of force were only hard enough to make them pratfall, lol. I'm sure Voldemort will survive somehow.

Gandalf has never demonstrated such fine control with TK and he hasn't won't get out a 'your wand is broken' before he eats a death spell.

Originally posted by NemeBro
If you are referring to the Terminator thread, I pretty handily won that thread. You established nothing at all, short of your ability to deny evidence.

A single telekinetic thrust will cave Voldemort's face in. Gandalf, and by powerscaling, Saruman, are magnitudes more durable than Voldemort. They are injured by eachother's telekinesis.

I don't think I need to prove Gandalf the White is more powerful than both.

A single thrust of his staff, and Voldemort finds himself suffering from a severe case of deadness. You say magnitudes more durable when Grima stabs Saruman into submission. You can't seem to make up your mind here. Tk might give him a bruise on his cheek or cause a tummy ache of some kind but these is a man's fight. Most of the time Gandalf just bumps someone in the head with his staff on the battlefield which doesn' treally cause all that much damage if any.

Voldemort wins, babe.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Whatever it hits is destroyed. If it hits the titanic the piece it hits get destroyed not the entire ship.

Gandalf doesn't have anything more powerful to bring to the table here which is even remotely as powerful as a giant fire basilisk or the killing curse.

How does Gandalf win ? At least attempt to debate.

Incorrect again. Watch the films; read the wiki-link.

He brings death to Voldermort and quickly. That's enough to win the thread.

LoL, already covered over and over. Magic or he could smash Voldermort's head apart. TK + Sword = dead Voldermort. /thread.

Originally posted by Robtard
Incorrect again. Watch the films; read the wiki-link.

He brings death to Voldermort and quickly. That's enough to win the thread.

LoL, already covered over and over. Magic or he could smash Voldermort's head apart. TK + Sword = dead Voldermort. /thread. Blocked means in the wiki link that it doesn't keep going any further if it hits an object.

How does he bring death quickly to Voldemort ? Name one character he brought death swiftly to. Please.

The avada kedavra kills Gabdalf dead. His staff can be destroyed and the avada kedavra destroys it. What is Gandalf going to do with Voldemort swipes his wand causing it to cut him or using Crucio.

He can choose to torture Gandalf if he so desires.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Every day. Theres an infestation of the things in the institution.

Dun care. I'm straight anyways.

Gandalf and Saruman are not especially durable at all. And those bursts of force were only hard enough to make them pratfall, lol. I'm sure Voldemort will survive somehow.

Gandalf has never demonstrated such fine control with TK and he hasn't won't get out a 'your wand is broken' before he eats a death spell.

Don't lie to me boy.

Not especially durable at all? I guess I must of imagined Gandalf falling kilometers while taking punches to the face from a Balrog that was crumbling the stonework of Moria physically as it chased them. I've seen Luffy punch people full force without knocking them into the horizon. That doesn't actually take away from his strength feats. Please stop this.

Yeah no. All it takes is a quick thrust of his staff to at the very least incapacitate Voldemort. If he survives the first, the next will kill him.

The magic of LotR, though subtle and less versatile, is being underrated.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You say magnitudes more durable when Grima stabs Saruman into submission. You can't seem to make up your mind here. Tk might give him a bruise on his cheek or cause a tummy ache of some kind but these is a man's fight. Most of the time Gandalf just bumps someone in the head with his staff on the battlefield which doesn' treally cause all that much damage if any.

Voldemort wins, babe.

Grima stabbed a Saruman whose power had been broken. Not to mention a knife kind of can lessen the strength to durability difference.

The TK will kill Voldemort, who has no notable durability feats I can recall.

Gandalf "bumping someone on the head" with his staff kills Orcs with a single hit.

Try harder.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Blocked means in the wiki link that it doesn't keep going any further if it hits an object.

How does he bring death quickly to Voldemort ? Name one character he brought death swiftly to. Please.

The avada kedavra kills Gabdalf dead. His staff can be destroyed and the avada kedavra destroys it. What is Gandalf going to do with Voldemort swipes his wand causing it to cut him or using Crucio.

He can choose to torture Gandalf if he so desires.

Nor does it "destroy" objects, watch the damn films and pay attention, man.

Told you already. TK + sword would easily do it. Various minions of Sarumon. Did you watch any of the LoTR films?

If it hit him, sure, Gandalf's corporeal body would likely die. It isn't though. His staff can be destroyed by the likes of the Witch King, not a spell designed to kill the living. Easy, he'll TK first.

No, he couldn't, he'd be dead here; rather quickly too.

In truth, Gandalf doesn't have to kill Voldermort to win, he could simply use the fear-magic he used on Bilbo in the beginning of Fellowship and just scare Voldermort into submission; leaving him whimpering in the corner; wetting himself. This would be the easiest way.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Don't lie to me boy.

Not especially durable at all? I guess I must of imagined Gandalf falling kilometers while taking punches to the face from a Balrog that was crumbling the stonework of Moria physically as it chased them. I've seen Luffy punch people full force without knocking them into the horizon. That doesn't actually take away from his strength feats. Please stop this.

Yeah no. All it takes is a quick thrust of his staff to at the very least incapacitate Voldemort. If he survives the first, the next will kill him.

The magic of LotR, though subtle and less versatile, is being underrated.



Grima stabbed a Saruman whose power had been broken. Not to mention a knife kind of can lessen the strength to durability difference.

The TK will kill Voldemort, who has no notable durability feats I can recall.

Gandalf "bumping someone on the head" with his staff kills Orcs with a single hit.

Try harder. His staff was broken not his power. Being stabbed by such a weenie and yet you brag about his durability. Seriously, did you watch the movies in the past 5 years ?

The tk didn't kill anyone. I mean seriously. You use attacks from lotr that don't kill anyone yet claim they can kill. You don't know the first thing about debating. Watch me learn from me.

No, it doesn't. Show me him killing an orc with a single hit. I've seen that staff just knock people down like that crazy old bastiche who burned to death.

Voldemort has several ways to crush him.Originally posted by Robtard
Nor does it "destroy" objects, watch the damn films and pay attention, man.

Told you already. TK + sword would easily do it. Various minions of Sarumon. Did you watch any of the LoTR films?

If it hit him, sure, Gandalf's corporeal body would likely die. It isn't though. His staff can be destroyed by the likes of the Witch King, not a spell designed to kill the living. Easy, he'll TK first.

No, he couldn't, he'd be dead here; rather quickly too.

In truth, Gandalf doesn't have to kill Voldermort to win, he could simply use the fear-magic he used on Bilbo in the beginning of Fellowship and just scare Voldermort into submission; leaving him whimpering in the corner; wetting himself. This would be the easiest way. Shopw me one instance of it not destroying what it hits. You seem to think if it hits the empire state building that if the building isn't destroyed then it failed.

Voldemort has tk of his own. Gandalf used tk in a losing battle against saruman and only managed to knock old man Saruman to the ground with minor cuts and bruises. LOL. The tk hits about as hard as McClane which isn't very hard.

Glad you agree gandalf dies. Just like in the potter films their souls aren't destroyed just their corporeal bodies. So why mention it here like Gandalf is special in the regard he lives on just like every other HP character after death.

The spell destroys objects which get in the way. Gandalf's staff has already been destroyed by someone who was owned by a torch. Not only that the man swung it wildly and the Witch King was unable to best him. That's who bested Gandalf.

Voldemort is far quicker and will have Gandalf on his back writhing in pain.

Bilbo is a hobbit who is scared of someone over 6 foot let alone a wizard. Voldemort would laugh release a fire basilisk and proceed on to destroy the entire hobbit village just because he's mean.

Originally posted by quanchi112
His staff was broken not his power. Being stabbed by such a weenie and yet you brag about his durability. Seriously, did you watch the movies in the past 5 years ?

The tk didn't kill anyone. I mean seriously. You use attacks from lotr that don't kill anyone yet claim they can kill. You don't know the first thing about debating. Watch me learn from me.

No, it doesn't. Show me him killing an orc with a single hit. I've seen that staff just knock people down like that crazy old bastiche who burned to death.

Voldemort has several ways to crush him. Shopw me one instance of it not destroying what it hits. You seem to think if it hits the empire state building that if the building isn't destroyed then it failed.

Voldemort has tk of his own. Gandalf used tk in a losing battle against saruman and only managed to knock old man Saruman to the ground with minor cuts and bruises. LOL. The tk hits about as hard as McClane which isn't very hard.

Glad you agree gandalf dies. Just like in the potter films their souls aren't destroyed just their corporeal bodies. So why mention it here like Gandalf is special in the regard he lives on just like every other HP character after death.

The spell destroys objects which get in the way. Gandalf's staff has already been destroyed by someone who was owned by a torch. Not only that the man swung it wildly and the Witch King was unable to best him. That's who bested Gandalf.

Voldemort is far quicker and will have Gandalf on his back writhing in pain.

Bilbo is a hobbit who is scared of someone over 6 foot let alone a wizard. Voldemort would laugh release a fire basilisk and proceed on to destroy the entire hobbit village just because he's mean.

The tombstone in the graveyard scene, so that. Show me one instance where the death-spell "destroyed" something, especially something powerful like Gandalf's magical staff.

I said "TK+sword", genius, read; then reply. TK knocks Voldermort on his ass and stuns him; sword splits his bald head in twain.

Watch the films and pay attention, Gandalf has a sword too. Though a staff to the face would end Voldermort.

I said "if" the spell should hit him; it won't though. You're arguing a moot point yet again.

Wrong; repeating fail over and over won't make it true. The death-spell is a killing spell, not a "destroy everything it hits boom!" as you're ranting.

Wrong yet again, at least you're consistent. Gandalf is far quicker; his TK takes an instant, unlike Voldermort spells where he has to do a phaggy little hand-motion and mutter an incantation.

Wrong, it was a form of magical fear that Gandalf used, as we see him change appearance and the room darkens; it would fear Voldermort just the same. Fight's over before it starts; Voldermort cowers and wets himself. Gandalf wins. The end.

Originally posted by Robtard
The tombstone in the graveyard scene, so that. Show me one instance where the death-spell "destroyed" something, especially something powerful like Gandalf's magical staff.

I said "TK+sword", genius, read; then reply. TK knocks Voldermort on his ass and stuns him; sword splits his bald head in twain.

Watch the films and pay attention, Gandalf has a sword too. Though a staff to the face would end Voldermort.

I said "if" the spell should hit him; it won't though. You're arguing a moot point yet again.

Wrong; repeating fail over and over won't make it true. The death-spell is a killing spell, not a "destroy everything it hits boom!" as you're ranting.

Wrong yet again, at least you're consistent. Gandalf is far quicker; his TK takes an instant, unlike Voldermort spells where he has to do a phaggy little hand-motion and mutter an incantation.

Wrong, it was a form of magical fear that Gandalf used, as we see him change appearance and the room darkens; it would fear Voldermort just the same. Fight's over before it starts; Voldermort cowers and wets himself. Gandalf wins. The end. Which movie ? You know there's a thing called youtube not some oh yeah the tombstone out of like 8 movies.

Tk didn't stun anyone long enough for Gandalf to charge his sword and run in and attack. In fact the tk battle was back and forth. Two old men attacking the other's liver spots.

Yes, a sword he will never ever get to use since Voldemort can apparate, can blast physical beams of energy, can wave his wand and bring unspeakable agony upon the Dalf, and can one shot kill.

It will hit him. Voldemort will barrage him with attacks while Gandalf's best efforts will be a bright light or tk that causes as much pain as a severe wedgie.

It destroys objects it hits and kills living peeps.

Gandalf was getting tk'd left and right in an instant. He was slow. Voldemort is shown blocking blasts easily aimed at him. The guy is much quicker and has far better ranged attacks along with them being far more powerful. He can apparate unlike Gandalf.

Gandalf used this tactic against a weakminded hobbit not against anyone in battle so claiming it works against the dark lord is about as pathetic as you can get.

Voldemort starts this fight by tking Gandalf on his ass across the room giving him a major gash. While he's struggling to come too Voldemort starts eating hobbits right in front of him. Gandalf screams no, I can't take this and charges his sword and does himself in.

Hahahaaahahahaaaahaahhahahahaaahhahaaa, now you're scripting the fight, how RJ of you.

Gandalf wins because he's better. Accept it and move on, your fanboy is showing.

Originally posted by Robtard
Hahahaaahahahaaaahaahhahahahaaahhahaaa, now you're scripting the fight, how RJ of you.

Gandalf wins because he's better. Accept it and move on, your fanboy is showing. I am the great quanchi.

Voldemort wins because he's more handsome, more powerful, and faster than the geriatric he's facing.

Didn't Aragorn's sword burn his hand and seemed to be on fire when they encountered Gandalf in Fangorn? Gandalf didn't speak a word when he blocked a thrown axe, an arrow shot at him from point-blank range and a sword thrust. Voldemort's wand might begin to burn or his body before he would be able to speak a word.

If a little kid can beat Voldemort, then how can Voldemort expect to beat Gandalf who killed a Balrog after two days of fighting? This Balrog was no mere Balrog either. The Balrog of Morgoth . . . Morgoth was worse and more powerful than Sauron.

Gandalf has experience and knowledge not only from formal magic training, but other teachers like the Elves. It is similiar to Jedi or Sith training where each student has multiple teachers, but Gandalf had hundreds of years of training from various diferent Masters. How many years did Voldemort have?

If Voldemort fought in the War of the Ring, he wouldn't survive the Battle of Helms Deep, The Seige of Minas Tirith or the Battle of the Black Gate. It was dirty, close fighting where a wand would be useless and magical powers. The only useful tool is a sword.

Originally posted by Darth Truculent
This Balrog was no mere Balrog either. The Balrog of Morgoth . . . Morgoth was worse and more powerful than Sauron.

lol

All Balrogs are Balrogs of Morgoth as they were all his servants.

Listening to Bad Religion kinda makes me forget some of my knowledge of the top of my head. Sorry.

No worries.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Don't lie to me boy.

Not especially durable at all? I guess I must of imagined Gandalf falling kilometers while taking punches to the face from a Balrog that was crumbling the stonework of Moria physically as it chased them. I've seen Luffy punch people full force without knocking them into the horizon. That doesn't actually take away from his strength feats. Please stop this.

Yeah no. All it takes is a quick thrust of his staff to at the very least incapacitate Voldemort. If he survives the first, the next will kill him.

The magic of LotR, though subtle and less versatile, is being underrated.


You didn't imagine it, but Frodo did. It was just a dream, remember.

With Luffy he has solid feats that prove his strength. That they don't go flying is narrative convenience. The staff thrusts do not have established power behind them.

Prove the power of these staff thrusts. Plus Quan makes a good point with Saruman getting shanked by Wormtongue.


By the way, are we counting the extended editions in this?


Originally posted by Darth Truculent
If Voldemort fought in the War of the Ring, he wouldn't survive the Battle of Helms Deep, The Seige of Minas Tirith or the Battle of the Black Gate. It was dirty, close fighting where a wand would be useless and magical powers. The only useful tool is a sword.

I disagree. Replace Gandalf with Voldemort in the War of the Ring and things would have gone much smoother. Voldemort alone would have wrecked the 3 battles you mentioned, at the least doing much, much more damage than Gandalf with his sword. Voldemort just has so much more offensive magic than him.

Originally posted by Nephthys
You didn't imagine it, but Frodo did. It was just a dream, remember.

Yeah, only it wasn't just a dream. It was reality. Inception mindfvck!



Clearly you didn't see Gandalf stripping Saruman of his powers, and hence the only reason why Wormtongue was able to kill him.




Yes, it's part of the film...




Y'know, Gandalf and the other Istari were sent from the Undying Lands not to showcase their magical abilities, but counter Sauron, not by power, but by rallying the Free Peoples of Middle Earth.

If Gandalf wanted to go all-out, he would have caused a lot more devastation than just hewing down Orcs with Glamdring.

----------------------------------

I'm entering this fray:

Gandalf kills Voldemort.


BTW, Gandalf seems to have a sense of precognition, in that he already counters the Three Hunter's ambush with blinding light. And then he practically owns them in the next several seconds.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Yeah, only it wasn't just a dream. It was reality. Inception mindfvck!

QWBBQHDBGJkL****!

(Prove it)

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Clearly you didn't see Gandalf stripping Saruman of his powers, and hence the only reason why Wormtongue was able to kill him.

I also didn't see where Super-durability is a part of a wizards powers, nor when Gandalf stripped him of said durability.


Originally posted by Korto Vos
Yes, it's part of the film...


Not the original film as seen in cinema's. I'm merely unsure of what the forum policy is on extended editions.


Originally posted by Korto Vos
Y'know, Gandalf and the other Istari were sent from the Undying Lands not to showcase their magical abilities, but counter Sauron, not by power, but by rallying the Free Peoples of Middle Earth.

If Gandalf wanted to go all-out, he would have caused a lot more devastation than just hewing down Orcs with Glamdring.

Yes, yes, Nemebro's already informed me about hwo 'uber' the Istari really are and how they're all being held back etc.....

....But where is this said in the movie? Furthermore, that wasn't my point.

The point is that he didn't go all-out. Voldemort would.

----------------------------------


Originally posted by Korto Vos
I'm entering this fray:

Gandalf kills Voldemort.


BTW, Gandalf seems to have a sense of precognition, in that he already counters the Three Hunter's ambush with blinding light. And then he practically owns them in the next several seconds.


Well that or he knew they were there and was actively seeking them out.

Originally posted by Nephthys
QWBBQHDBGJkL****!

(Prove it)

Gandalf: "Through fire and water. From the lowest dungeon..."

Gandalf and the Balrog land in the water at the end of their free-fall. When they came out of the water, they would have found themselves at the lowest dungeon.





Gandalf: "Saruman, your staff is broken."

Gandalf expelled Saruman from the order of Istari (aka removed his powers), and shattered his staff to prove it.







They weren't deleted scenes, but additional scenes meant for the trilogy that were removed to keep the cinematic versions in reasonable film times.





Yeah, I argued that in the Balrog thread as well, which I should probably return to, but meh, whatever...




All right, but in fight, we are assuming Gandalf isn't held back by the conditions of his presence at Middle-Earth, but instead will fight freely.




Possibly, but Aragorn and Legolas are master trackers, and would have detected another presence before said figure would have discovered them.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Gandalf: "Through fire and water. From the lowest dungeon..."

Gandalf and the Balrog land in the water at the end of their free-fall. When they came out of the water, they would have found themselves at the lowest dungeon.

Thats very weak evidence if ever I saw it. I think its a bit much to say the dream 100% happened from 2 obscure sentences.

Do better.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Gandalf: "Saruman, your staff is broken."

Gandalf expelled Saruman from the order of Istari (aka removed his powers), and shattered his staff to prove it.

Yis, yis, I know that. I'm just saying, I would have thought that durability wouldn't leave him because of his staff being broken, it would be more about his physical body.

But who cares, he doesn't have uber durability anyway.





Originally posted by Korto Vos
They weren't deleted scenes, but additional scenes meant for the trilogy that were removed to keep the cinematic versions in reasonable film times.


Again, I'd like forum policy to decide.


Originally posted by Korto Vos
All right, but in fight, we are assuming Gandalf isn't held back by the conditions of his presence at Middle-Earth, but instead will fight freely.

No, he never used these uber powers you're talking about and he's never mentioned having them in the movies. Its in the forum rules, movie feats only.


Originally posted by Korto Vos
Possibly, but Aragorn and Legolas are master trackers, and would have detected another presence before said figure would have discovered them.

So? He obviously knew they were there. He went to them, remember. They stop stock still in the middle of a clearing and waited for him to find them.

Givening him precognition because of this is stupid. If he had precognition he'd have known about the Balrog pulling him down into Moria.

UunqBAHBDo8

Please explain to me again how Gandalf wins this?

f7egAVqmH4Q


44kBN340vd4



p1Vyhve9gtg

He doesn't. Gandalf's never shown the magical capacity to counter the myriad of spells that Voldemort has at his command. To give Gandalf due credit, he showed rather impressive speed and reflexes blocking Gimli's and Legolas' attacks in TTT, but I doubt very much that he's going to be tossing aside a Killing Curse or the Cruciatus Curse so easily.


And what's this repeated nonsense that "Gandlaf is a Maiar, so he can't be killed"? Despite the fact that the Ainur beings are never actually mentioned in the films, The Return of the King does in fact show a Maiar being stabbed in the back (by a Man) and landing on a wooden spike---dead.

And where's this fantastic magical combative prowess that Gandalf is claimed to possess? Last I recall he wasn't disintegrating Orcs or Uruks with his powers---he was fighting close-quarter melees with a sword in Fellowship and RotK (as both Grey and White, respectively). Where are his death blasts, his incinerating columns of fire, his teleportation? Voldemort has all that, and more. What's Gandalf going to use to counter him? His flashlight? His ability to crack rocks? His bubble shield that he never used more than twice despite how incredibly useful it would have been? Maybe he's going to wreck the shit out of Voldemort's wand, because it's made of wood---though I wonder how many non-magical catapults and siege weapons he could have destroyed at Pelennor and why he abstained.



One Avada Kedavra and it's all over for Gandalf.

Originally posted by Nephthys
You didn't imagine it, but Frodo did. It was just a dream, remember.

Lol no.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
He doesn't. Gandalf's never shown the magical capacity to counter the myriad of spells that Voldemort has at his command. To give Gandalf due credit, he showed rather impressive speed and reflexes blocking Gimli's and Legolas' attacks in TTT, but I doubt very much that he's going to be tossing aside a Killing Curse or the Cruciatus Curse so easily.


And what's this repeated nonsense that "Gandlaf is a Maiar, so he can't be killed"? Despite the fact that the Ainur beings are never actually mentioned in the films, The Return of the King does in fact show a Maiar being stabbed in the back (by a Man) and landing on a wooden spike---dead.

And where's this fantastic magical combative prowess that Gandalf is claimed to possess? Last I recall he wasn't disintegrating Orcs or Uruks with his powers---he was fighting close-quarter melees with a sword in Fellowship and RotK (as both Grey and White, respectively). Where are his death blasts, his incinerating columns of fire, his teleportation? Voldemort has all that, and more. What's Gandalf going to use to counter him? His flashlight? His ability to crack rocks? His bubble shield that he never used more than twice despite how incredibly useful it would have been? Maybe he's going to wreck the shit out of Voldemort's wand, because it's made of wood---though I wonder how many non-magical catapults and siege weapons he could have destroyed at Pelennor and why he abstained.

One Avada Kedavra and it's all over for Gandalf.

Gandalf solos.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lekav3qHWP1qdhswm.jpg

Voldermort can't get pasted his uber-shield.

Originally posted by ares834
Lol no.

Why not?

Originally posted by Robtard
Gandalf solos.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lekav3qHWP1qdhswm.jpg 8mNDmrwOChk

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
8mNDmrwOChk

I'm not listening to some wannabe Jew.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_23Bfe9wiMsk/SXegIJ3_yRI/AAAAAAAAABs/v3cilyHKytQ/s320/bolo.jpg

Voldermort can't get past Gandalf's uber shield. /thread

Voldemort can get past Gandalf's PIS shield. /thread

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Voldemort can get past Gandalf's PIS shield. /thread

Too bad PIS/CIS doesn't ever factor into these fights for obvious reasons, ergo Gandalf solos again. He's the better wizard.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Why not?


Because it's not... It's what happened, and if you seriosuly think it was all a dream... Well you would be an idiot. That's really all that needs to be said.

Originally posted by Robtard
Too bad PIS/CIS doesn't ever factor into these fights for obvious reasons Oh well that's good. I hate all that taunting, exposition and peacocking in epic duels. PIS sucks.


Avada Kedavra. Voldemort solos in 1.8 seconds.

Gandalf dodges and breaks his wand.

Originally posted by ares834
Gandalf dodges and breaks his wand. And a pink elephant from space crushes them all.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Oh well that's good. I hate all that taunting, exposition and peacocking in epic duels. PIS sucks.

Avada Kedavra. Voldemort solos in 1.8 seconds.

Gandalf could dodge/block (see reflexes in TT) with staff/sword or he could raise his magical shield that was powerful enough to block a giant fire-sword wielding by a super-strong being.

Gandalf solos in 1.0 seconds.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
And a pink elephant from space crushes them all.





Gandalf was shown to be able to react fast enough to block an arrow and a throwing axe almost simultaneously. He can dodge an Avada Kadavra or at least block it once with his sword.

Originally posted by Robtard
Gandalf could dodge/block (see reflexes in TT) with staff/sword or he could raise his magical shield that was powerful enough to block a giant fire-sword wielding by a super-strong being.

Gandalf solos in 1.0 seconds. "I am the servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the Flame of Anor. The Dark Fire shan't avail you, Flame of Udun."---took about 10 seconds actually.


"Avada Kedavra"---about 1.5. Unblockable Killing Curse vs. Fire Shield.


And as we can see here:

JQee3ag4niE


Gandalf's possess the ability to easily and swiftly blast non-magical beings in to oblivion with his uber magical death rays that travel faster than arrows. The video doesn't show that because Gandalf was just trying to pull the wool over Pippin's eyes, just in case Pippin was a spy for Voldemort.

Originally posted by ares834
He can dodge an Avada Kadavra or at least block it once with his sword. Swords can block the Unblockable Killing Curse? I didn't know that his sword had a loved one who died for it...

Originally posted by ares834
Because it's not... It's what happened, and if you seriosuly think it was all a dream... Well you would be an idiot. That's really all that needs to be said.

Well lookie here, I have the actual movie to back me up.

As Frodo clearly says at 4.00, 'Its just a dream.' Now unless you have some actual goddamn proof, I'm sticking to the above line.

http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-thumbsup.gif

Originally posted by Nephthys
Well lookie here, I have the actual movie to back me up.

As Frodo clearly says at 4.00, 'Its just a dream.' Now unless you have some actual goddamn proof, I'm sticking to the above line.

http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-thumbsup.gif What are you refuting?

The beginning scene was just a dream.


(Is what I'm saying.)

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Swords can block the Unblockable Killing Curse? I didn't know that his sword had a loved one who died for it...

The spell is shown being stopped my metal and concrete etc... A sword is metal and therefore would stop it, although would likely be destroyed in doing so.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Well lookie here, I have the actual movie to back me up.

As Frodo clearly says at 4.00, 'Its just a dream.' Now unless you have some actual goddamn proof, I'm sticking to the above line.

http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-thumbsup.gif

Common sense. The scene is there to show us what happens... Just like the scenes where we see Voldemort walking into Harry's house in SS. Plus it agrees with what Gandalf says to Aragorn later on.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The beginning scene was just a dream.


(Is what I'm saying.) Gandalf falling with the Balrog? What about:

"But you fell."

"Through fire. And water."

Originally posted by ares834
The spell is shown being stopped my metal and concrete etc... A sword is metal and therefore would stop it, although would likely be destroyed in doing so. Very well.

"Avada Kedavra! Damn. Avada Kedavra!"


What then?

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Very well.

"Avada Kedavra! Damn. Avada Kedavra!"


What then?

Dodge.

Nah, but in all honesty if Voldemort uses some of his other spells he should win quite easily.

Originally posted by ares834
Common sense. The scene is there to show us what happens... Just like the scenes where we see Voldemort walking into Harry's house in SS. Plus it agrees with what Gandalf says to Aragorn later on.

SS?

Well those scenes are explained by Harry, you know actually being there at the time, as opposed to Frodo.

I'm still asking for proof. And common sense is ain't it.



Hardly positive confirmation. Besides, he didn't fall through any fire that I recall.

Originally posted by Nephthys
SS?

Well those scenes are explained by Harry, you know actually being there at the time, as opposed to Frodo.

I'm still asking for proof. And common sense is ain't it.

Hardly positive confirmation. Besides, he didn't fall through any fire that I recall.

Sorcerous Stone. And the scene where Voldermot walking to his house does not have Harry there yet we are led to believe it is factual, just like Balrog fight.

Fell through the Balrog's fire.

Originally posted by ares834
Sorcerous Stone. And the scene where Voldermot walking to his house does not have Harry there yet we are led to believe it is factual, just like Balrog fight.

Fell through the Balrog's fire.

Well if you don't accept the first handwave then you can accept it as it being because Harry has a peice of Voldemorts soul inside him. Simples.

He fell through no fire. I just checked.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Well if you don't accept the first handwave then you can accept it as it being because Harry has a peice of Voldemorts soul inside him. Simples.

The point is we are led to believe it's true. The same for TTT. It's there to show us what happened.



Then you missed the part where he fell on the Balrog's flaming back...

Originally posted by ares834
The point is we are led to believe it's true. The same for TTT. It's there to show us what happened.



Then you missed the part where he fell on the Balrog's flaming back...

I would be inclined to agree, but they chose to make it a dream. And as a dream, it isn't acceptable as evidence.

He fell through no fire.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
"I am the servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the Flame of Anor. The Dark Fire shan't avail you, Flame of Udun."---took about 10 seconds actually.


"Avada Kedavra"---about 1.5. Unblockable Killing Curse vs. Fire Shield.


And as we can see here:

Gandalf's possess the ability to easily and swiftly blast non-magical beings in to oblivion with his uber magical death rays that travel faster than arrows. The video doesn't show that because Gandalf was just trying to pull the wool over Pippin's eyes, just in case Pippin was a spy for Voldemort.

That wasn't Gandalf casting the spell, that was him boasting and trying to keep the Balrog at bay. When the Balrog finally attacked, it took him less than second to raise his shield.

Ava Kedavara will fail, dodged, blocked or magically shielded against.

No one said anything about "uber magical death rays" that don't exist concerning Gandalf , that's the pro-Voldermort fanboys. Gandalf wins because he's more powerful and Voldermort's go-to spell (the death-spell) won't work on Gandalf for stated reasons.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I would be inclined to agree, but they chose to make it a dream. And as a dream, it isn't acceptable as evidence.

Whatever. It's quite clear it is intended to be taken as fact but if you want to be stubborn about it...



Um... When he fell onto the Balrog's back he fell through the flames on the Balrog's back.

Originally posted by ares834
Um... When he fell onto the Balrog's back he fell through the flames on the Balrog's back.

I don't remember that.


Do you have a yew toob clip of that?

I could not find one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44kBN340vd4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44kBN340vd4

At around 3:40.

Originally posted by Darth Truculent
Didn't Aragorn's sword burn his hand and seemed to be on fire when they encountered Gandalf in Fangorn? Gandalf didn't speak a word when he blocked a thrown axe, an arrow shot at him from point-blank range and a sword thrust. Voldemort's wand might begin to burn or his body before he would be able to speak a word.

If a little kid can beat Voldemort, then how can Voldemort expect to beat Gandalf who killed a Balrog after two days of fighting? This Balrog was no mere Balrog either. The Balrog of Morgoth . . . Morgoth was worse and more powerful than Sauron.

Gandalf has experience and knowledge not only from formal magic training, but other teachers like the Elves. It is similiar to Jedi or Sith training where each student has multiple teachers, but Gandalf had hundreds of years of training from various diferent Masters. How many years did Voldemort have?

If Voldemort fought in the War of the Ring, he wouldn't survive the Battle of Helms Deep, The Seige of Minas Tirith or the Battle of the Black Gate. It was dirty, close fighting where a wand would be useless and magical powers. The only useful tool is a sword. Voldemort wouldn't attempt a battle by himself at helms deep either. The forces he had charging Howgwarts would decimate that force. There wouldn't need to be clever tactics. It's also funny because Gandalf showed up towards the end and was never by himself so acting like it's fair to compare just Voldemort vs. an entire army of ten thousand isn't really fair either.

Originally posted by Robtard
Gandalf solos.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lekav3qHWP1qdhswm.jpg

Voldermort can't get pasted his uber-shield. The avada kedvara breaks his staff.

Originally posted by quanchi112
The avada kedvara breaks his staff.

Lovely, Avada Kedavra now breaks staffs as well, eh?

Gandalf automatically kicks in Blinding Light instantly, which if you didn't know, blinded/immobilized all of the Uruk-Hai during the Rohirrim charge at Helms Deep (yes, it's very powerful). And almost simultaneously he either shatters Voldemort's wand or burns Voldemort's hand or wand, rendering the Dark Wizard helpless.

For Voldemort's benefit, let us say he manages to aim Avada Kedavra (despite the Blinding Light) on target. Well, seeing how Gandalf can errect his Shield right away, he blocks that attack.

Voldemort could apparate to save himself, but without his wand, he's gone.

EDIT: And this is without even bringing up the Maiar argument, which theoretically is a default win for Gandalf.

Originally posted by Nephthys
You didn't imagine it, but Frodo did. It was just a dream, remember.

With Luffy he has solid feats that prove his strength. That they don't go flying is narrative convenience. The staff thrusts do not have established power behind them.

Prove the power of these staff thrusts. Plus Quan makes a good point with Saruman getting shanked by Wormtongue.


By the way, are we counting the extended editions in this?

1. No.

2. As does Gandalf. Physically fighting a Balrog for an extended period. The staff thrusts can wound people of Gandalf's durability. Also, ability to toss Gandalf to the top of Isengard. His TK is easily sufficient for killing someone of unremarkable durability like Voldemort.

3. Quan never makes a good point, and once more, his power was broken by that point. Though it's not really important, you don't have to be immune to stabbing to be much more durable than Voldemort.

4. Considering Grima only stabbed Saruman in said extended edition, I can only assume you are.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Lovely, Avada Kedavra now breaks staffs as well, eh?

Gandalf automatically kicks in Blinding Light instantly, which if you didn't know, blinded/immobilized all of the Uruk-Hai during the Rohirrim charge at Helms Deep (yes, it's very powerful). And almost simultaneously he either shatters Voldemort's wand or burns Voldemort's hand or wand, rendering the Dark Wizard helpless.

For Voldemort's benefit, let us say he manages to aim Avada Kedavra (despite the Blinding Light) on target. Well, seeing how Gandalf can errect his Shield right away, he blocks that attack.

Voldemort could apparate to save himself, but without his wand, he's gone.

EDIT: And this is without even bringing up the Maiar argument, which theoretically is a default win for Gandalf. Why wouldn't break a staff we have seen completely destroyed by the Witch King of all peeps ?

No, sorry I don't see this occurring. He may blind some Uruk hai or the Nazgul who were far from perfect or unbeatable (torches, dude). You are powerset arguing again. Claiming he does so then breaks the staff which he does not do ever in succession or in quickly without giving Voldemort the time to counter.

The shield can block a Balrog not Voldemort's powers. Voldemort easily dissipated the fire basilisk with his powers effortlessly when Dumbledore redirected it at him. Unlike Gandalf Voldemort can easily extinguish fire magic without having to erect a shield and flirt with danger up close and personal.

Voldemort's wand won't be broken. The magical user has to be greater in power and Voldemort's clearly his superior in that regard.

Saruman died as well as Gandalf died as the grey version. For the purposes of the forum that's a loss. Voldemort can't technically die without destroying the horcruxes but if either is killed they lose the thread without being permanently killed.

You got Yoda killed already now it seems you are out for vengeance with Gandalf. Voldemort slays another of your favorites.

Originally posted by ares834
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44kBN340vd4

At around 3:40.

I still don't see it. At that speed, the heat from the fire (if it is even hot) would not matter much. It would get mixed in with the icecold air around it.


If it would have been hot, his hair and clothes would have caught fire and we clearly see he was not immune to damage.


When Gandalf was grabbed by the fire whip, it did not burn him or his clothes...further proof that the flames are not necessarily hot.


It see it as more of a magical flame (it is) that is sort of look a room temperature flame (that's what it appears to be.



Keep in mind that we will just see rebuttals of "oh, well...Gandalf was IMMUNE!" or "Oh...uhh....Gandalf had shields UP man!"


There's no proof of that. The only time he used a shield against it, we clearly saw the shield.


Everything else would be adding abilities that do not exist.






However, I though you were saying that he phased THROUGH the Balrog with that flame comment.




Originally posted by quanchi112
Why wouldn't break a staff we have seen completely destroyed by the Witch King of all peeps ?

No, sorry I don't see this occurring. He may blind some Uruk hai or the Nazgul who were far from perfect or unbeatable (torches, dude). You are powerset arguing again. Claiming he does so then breaks the staff which he does not do ever in succession or in quickly without giving Voldemort the time to counter.

The shield can block a Balrog not Voldemort's powers. Voldemort easily dissipated the fire basilisk with his powers effortlessly when Dumbledore redirected it at him. Unlike Gandalf Voldemort can easily extinguish fire magic without having to erect a shield and flirt with danger up close and personal.

Voldemort's wand won't be broken. The magical user has to be greater in power and Voldemort's clearly his superior in that regard.

Saruman died as well as Gandalf died as the grey version. For the purposes of the forum that's a loss. Voldemort can't technically die without destroying the horcruxes but if either is killed they lose the thread without being permanently killed.

You got Yoda killed already now it seems you are out for vengeance with Gandalf. Voldemort slays another of your favorites.


I'll have to agree that the Wizard's shields are much more powerfult than the one Gandalf used against the balrog.


We saw the virtually impenetrable shield the Hogwarts school had on it and in a fit of rage, Voldy took down the shields...despite it standing up to massive bombardment for what appeared to be hours.


So, yes, Gandalf's shield is not comparable to the Wizard's shields, by feats.



If that strike from the Balrog was strong enough, it would have broken the bridge...but it didn't, so the strike was not uber powerful.




So, going by feats, yeah, the hogwarts shields is far stronger...and Voldy has the feat to take down Gandalf's shield but a large amount (we saw Gandalf's shields drop to just that single strike.)

BUT WAIT!

THERE'S MORE!

Some will say that the Balrog had anti-Gandalf shield magic in that strike. The problem: no evidence of that and it will not fly in the MVF. You gotsta have prooofs!

Originally posted by NemeBro
1. No.

2. As does Gandalf. Physically fighting a Balrog for an extended period. The staff thrusts can wound people of Gandalf's durability. Also, ability to toss Gandalf to the top of Isengard. His TK is easily sufficient for killing someone of unremarkable durability like Voldemort.

3. Quan never makes a good point, and once more, his power was broken by that point. Though it's not really important, you don't have to be immune to stabbing to be much more durable than Voldemort.

4. Considering Grima only stabbed Saruman in said extended edition, I can only assume you are.

1. As the discussion on the previous pages proved, yes.

2. Which only happened in a dream and so is unusable in the thread, so Gandalf has human durability. When Saruman did that he had Gandalfs staff, so it wasn't a base-level feat. If Gandalf could kill people with the TK why the **** didn't he do that in the many battles he was in? Using an explantion from the movies please.

3. This isn't a durability contest.

4. Which is why I'm asking. Because there a good and bad feats in the extended edition.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Why wouldn't break a staff we have seen completely destroyed by the Witch King of all peeps ?

Facepalm

Quan, you were claiming that Avada Kedavra would break Gandalf's staff. I questioned your statement, and your evidence is that because the Witch King broke Gandalf's staff (using his own unique magic), somehow Avada Kedavra, a Killing Curse, would have staff-shattering abilities.

Umm...no? That makes no sense.




Facepalm, again

I am arguing the sheer power of the Blinding Light. It completely immobilized hundreds and hundreds of Uruk-Hai during the Rohirrim charge.

"Far from perfect or unbeatable" - I'm demonstrating the magnitude of the Blinding Light, not touting the strength of the Nazgul or Uruk-Hai.

Now, unless you want to say that Voldemort has uber-powerful eyes, yes, the Dark Wizard will be blinded/immobilized by Gandalf's spell.

No, it's not "powerset arguing" if it occurs during The Two Towers. Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli ambushed Gandalf, and with a sense of precognition, the Istari immediately activated Blinding Light, shattered the projectiles, and burned the sword out of Aragorn's hand. All of this happened within seconds, and without Gandalf even trying.

As you can see, I'm not just bullshitting on the spot. I don't make arguments out-of-character. What is in character is that Voldemort will fire a blast of Avada Kedavra first, and Gandalf could unleash Blinding Light, kick in his Shield (which blocks the Killing Curse), and either shatter the wand/burn the wand in seconds.




Facepalm, galore

How are you assuming that the Shield won't block Voldemort's spells? You have no argument that it's a Balrog-only Shield; the Shield is a white bubble, not a flame-covered barrier (which, if it was, you could claim it's only against fire magic).

By your logic, I can say that Voldemort's spells have no effect against Gandalf (which actually, if one chooses to bring in the fact that the White Wizard is a MAIAR, then Gandalf automatically wins; for the sake of this thread, I'm choosing not to do so).

So what if Voldemort could do that? It has no relevance in this duel.



Great, that is your baseless opinion. Wands can be destroyed by just breaking them in half with your hands. Sorry, but Gandalf can easily break/burn a piece of magical wood.



Gandalf the Grey died against another Maiar, a Balrog, a creature of equal footing as him. And Gandalf stripped Saruman of his powers, expelled him from the order of the Istari, and shattered his staff. Wormtongue could only kill him because of that.

"Voldemort can't technically die without the Horcruxes"....okay...

...Gandalf the White can't be killed if his opponent isn't at least a demigod or higher. /Thread.



Where is this even coming from? Are you that insecure about the embarrassment you received during the Battlezone that you have to bring that up in every future argument with me?

Before, I thought you used to make actually rational arguments for Voldemort. But now, you are just coming across as a fanboy that can't accept the limitations of your character.

Yoda > Voldemort. Anyone who read that Battlezone would know I prevailed in that debate.

Gandalf > Voldemort. If others weren't agreeing with you, you would have been trounced before I even entered the fray by other posters.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I'll have to agree that the Wizard's shields are much more powerfult than the one Gandalf used against the balrog.

You have nothing backing this assertion.

That Shield blocked and broke the Balrog's flame sword. There was a massive amount of force behind that strike.




Wonderful, Voldemort either:

A. broke a severely damaged shield (that was dented by a "massive bombardment"

B. knew the proper incantation to break this severely-damaged shield




Thanks for your opinion!





WHAA-?

The strike didn't break the bridge because all the force concentrated within it was directed against Gandalf, and the Shield absorbed all of that energy.





1. You claimed that the Hogwarts shield > Gandalf's Shield, but unless my eyes deceive me, I didn't see anything backing your assertion.

2. Voldemort took down a shield that severely damaged by a massive bombardment, and could have very well known the specific spell to remove such a barrier.



And you "gotsta have prooofs" that the Hogwarts shield > Gandalf's Shield.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I still don't see it. At that speed, the heat from the fire (if it is even hot) would not matter much. It would get mixed in with the icecold air around it.

Yeah, I never said Gandalf was immune to the flames but rather verifying what Gandalf said when he claimed that he "fell through fire and water."




Gandalf tanks Saruman's fireball... Clearly he has magic that does make him immune to fire.

Originally posted by Nephthys
1. As the discussion on the previous pages proved, yes.

2. Which only happened in a dream and so is unusable in the thread, so Gandalf has human durability. When Saruman did that he had Gandalfs staff, so it wasn't a base-level feat. If Gandalf could kill people with the TK why the **** didn't he do that in the many battles he was in? Using an explantion from the movies please.

3. This isn't a durability contest.

4. Which is why I'm asking. Because there a good and bad feats in the extended edition. Yeah no.

An obvious troll is obvious.

We can see the pit is very ****ing deep as early as Fellowship, no human could survive it and continue fighting.

Not responding to you while you spout idiotic bullshit.

@ Neph

If you're going to argue about dreams, I can say that the beginning scene was a flashback, and when Frodo yells "Gandalf," he could have been dreaming about something completely differently.

There's no proof otherwise :P

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Facepalm

Quan, you were claiming that Avada Kedavra would break Gandalf's staff. I questioned your statement, and your evidence is that because the Witch King broke Gandalf's staff (using his own unique magic), somehow Avada Kedavra, a Killing Curse, would have staff-shattering abilities.

Umm...no? That makes no sense. Why wouldn't it have a breaking or shattering effect on a staff we have seen broken otherwise. The killing curse isn't going to power it up. Yes, it makes perfect sense but you also foolishly believe the word Maiar means auto victory.





It stunned them for a mere moment. They were also footsoldiers of no real relevance either other than their immense numbers. Gandalf never used that in battle to gain an advantage only to allow friends a moment's reprieve or time to escape the enemy's clutches.
Voldemort might be taken aback for a moment but that's it. Yes, Gandalf taking out those three foes showed he was beyond them but who care we already know the Grey version once when he defeated the Balrog. Voldemort won't be charging Gandalf and this will only blind him for a moment. Voldemort's quick reflexes assure offensive magic coming quickly in succession immediately afterwards. Points to Voldemort's immediate counter to Dumbledore's attempt at drowning him.

The shield won't block it. Hell, Voldemort's all out energy burst is going to wreck his shield since he single handedly wrecked the Hogwarts reinforced shield. Only a fanatic would claim Gandalf's shield is more powerful than one reinforced by multiple wizards from the hp universe. I also don't believe this tactic could even destroy Voldemort's wand. I believe you have to be more powerful to do so otherwise Gandalf the grey would have done so initially against Saruman.


I am not saying the shield can only block a Balrog's attacks I am saying it isn't powerful enough to withstand someone of Voldemort's power in reference to Deathly Hallows Part 2 where he wrecks the Hogwarts shield basically on his own; well the lionshare of it anyways.


I am just saying how powerful he is to extinguish fire with a gesture unlike Gandalf who has to physically block it with his staff shield.



He can only do so if he is more powerful than Voldemort which he is not. It isn't logical to assume he can break any wizard's staff or wand unless he's more powerful than them which is why Gandalf the grey failed whereas Gandalf the white prevailed against Saruman. It's only logical.

Yes, he did die against a being who physically taxed him for over a day of fighting. Gandalf destroyed his staff and he was attacked and killed while not prepared for it. Gandalf would die if someone stabbed him in the face just like the Witch King did. The Witch King also broke Gandalf's staff that doesn't mean he depowered him only that he broke his staff and limited his options or magical might. Saruman was defenseless against the blades and without his shields or anything up which makes both he and Gandalf so formidable.


It's just a little trash talk I would have hoped you wouldn't take it so personally and as an affront to your sensibilities.

I am making a rational argument as others have been doing as well. I also think the reason most haven't chimed in is because of their personal dislike of me they don't want to give me the satisfaction of saying I won.

No, like always I thin the herd and at the end of the day prevail.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
@ Neph

If you're going to argue about dreams, I can say that the beginning scene was a flashback, and when Frodo yells "Gandalf," he could have been dreaming about something completely differently.

There's no proof otherwise :P


You could.




But you would be unsuccessful.




(I'm having computer problems atm so it might be a few days until I can properly reply)

Originally posted by quanchi112
Why wouldn't it have a breaking or shattering effect on a staff we have seen broken otherwise. The killing curse isn't going to power it up. Yes, it makes perfect sense but you also foolishly believe the word Maiar means auto victory.

Again, you make no sense.




It stunned them for enough time for the cavalry to rip through the line of pike defenses. In addition, it blinded hundreds of Uruks. Thus, a Blinding Light concentrated on a single opponent would be devastating.

I don't care if you think they have "no real relevance." Voldemort doesn't have light-resistant eyes; he will be as vulnerable as the Uruk-Hai.

And umm yes....Gandalf used it in battle, and he used it against an assault by Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli. Therefore, I can say that he will use it against Voldemort.



The "that's it" will be more than enough time for Gandalf to defeat him.



Umm, yeah, he might be able to aim one Avada Kedavra on target, but that will be blocked by the Shield.



You know of my logical counters against the Voldemort-destroying-Hogwarts-shield argument.

Again, you are making fanboy assumptions. Power level has nothing to do with magic that involves burning weapons or shattering objects. The Elder Wand, the strongest wand in HP lore, was snapped in half in the films without any magic.

This is Gandalf the White, btw.




Yes, the shield can block a single, directed concentrated attack, like against the Balrog's strike.





Are you kidding me? This is only illogical. You basically said, "I believe Gandalf isn't stronger than Voldemort. Therefore, he can't hurt him. He loses."

There's no argument in what you said whatsoever.



I have no idea where you are getting at with what you said here.




It came out of nowhere, which is why I became slightly irritated.



Sure Quanchi, whatever you say.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
It stunned them for enough time for the cavalry to rip through the line of pike defenses. In addition, it blinded hundreds of Uruks. Thus, a Blinding Light concentrated on a single opponent would be devastating.

I don't care if you think they have "no real relevance." Voldemort doesn't have light-resistant eyes; he will be as vulnerable as the Uruk-Hai.

And umm yes....Gandalf used it in battle, and he used it against an assault by Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli. Therefore, I can say that he will use it against Voldemort.




That was the Sun.


bqO5Fa3YHLM


Lol.


Originally posted by NemeBro
Yeah no.

An obvious troll is obvious.

We can see the pit is very ****ing deep as early as Fellowship, no human could survive it and continue fighting.

Not responding to you while you spout idiotic bullshit.

If you want to try your hand at arguing otherwise, do so. Merely stating your opinion isn't going to cut it I'm afraid.

If however, you'd like to run away and not respond like you did last time, go right ahead.


Originally posted by Korto Vos
@ Neph

If you're going to argue about dreams, I can say that the beginning scene was a flashback, and when Frodo yells "Gandalf," he could have been dreaming about something completely differently.

There's no proof otherwise :P

We see an sequence of events with Gandalf in them, then we see Frodo start awake right when Gandalf hits the water and shout 'Gandalf!' and then he mentions that he had a dream. And you expect to successfully argue that the two are not at all linked?


Naw.

Originally posted by quanchi112
The avada kedvara breaks his staff.

Stop making things up, the death-spell is a killing spell, not a "destroys everything I need it to" spell, you're now worse than RJ in here, good job.

Gandalf solos, his shields are impregnable to the likes of Voldermort and he's more powerful overall. Gandalf fights epic battles; Voldermort dies to the hands of a man-boy student wizard.

Originally posted by Nephthys


That was the Sun.

The Sun doesn't work that way. :-| Also, the Uruk-Hai aren't like goblins; they can fight in regular sunlight. Clearly, Gandalf amplified the light using his own magic.




We see a sequence of events with Gandalf battling the Balrog that are obviously meant to be a flashback (not a dream) demonstrating what happened after he fell off the Bridge of Khazad-Dum.

Yeah.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
The Sun doesn't work that way. :-| Also, the Uruk-Hai aren't like goblins; they can fight in regular sunlight. Clearly, Gandalf amplified the light using his own magic.




We see a sequence of events with Gandalf battling the Balrog that are obviously meant to be a flashback (not a dream) demonstrating what happened after he fell off the Bridge of Khazad-Dum.

Yeah.

The suddenness of the sun rising behind the charge and the Uruk's all looking directly at it blinded them, thats my interpretation, its what happens in the books iir, and its what the script says:




No mention is made of Gandalf doing anything. And even if he did, it isn't something that he can do any time he wants to and he certainly can't do it in this thread, which takes place inside Hogwarts.


I agree that the implication would be that this is what is happened after Gandalf fell. However, it is still a dream. And something being implied to happen is not proof. The forum rules are Screen feats only. A dream is not acceptable evidence. Frodo possesses no ability that lets him see things that happened to other people or any other kind of magical sight. It makes no sense that he can dream something that actually happened. It is not a flashback.

Where did you get that script from?

I clicked on the second Two Towers script link on Yahoo!, and saw this:

GANDALF: (looking down on Helms Deep. Theoden pauses and looks up) Theoden King stands alone.

EOMER: (riding up behind him) Not alone. (he raises his sword high) Rohirrim!

The Rohirrim ride up behind Eomer. The Uruk-hai stop fighting and look up.

THEODEN: Eomer.

EOMER: To the king!

Eomer, Gandalf and the Rohirrim ride down the steep hill towards the Uruks who surge forward holding their spears in front of them. As Gandalf nears the Uruks he sends out a bright white light from his staff, blinding the Uruk-hai. They ride over the Uruk-hai and into their masses, killing and fighting.

----------------------------------

No, if you want to play it that way Neph, you have zero proof that Frodo's dream about Gandalf was the opening scene.

When I said this earlier:




You replied:




I'm afraid my "very weak evidence" is better than what you have provided.

You're making an implication that the two are connected, even though you are refusing the obvious implication that the opening scene was an actual flashback.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Where did you get that script from?

I clicked on the second Two Towers script link on Yahoo!, and saw this:

GANDALF: (looking down on Helms Deep. Theoden pauses and looks up) Theoden King stands alone.

EOMER: (riding up behind him) Not alone. (he raises his sword high) Rohirrim!

The Rohirrim ride up behind Eomer. The Uruk-hai stop fighting and look up.

THEODEN: Eomer.

EOMER: To the king!

Eomer, Gandalf and the Rohirrim ride down the steep hill towards the Uruks who surge forward holding their spears in front of them. As Gandalf nears the Uruks he sends out a bright white light from his staff, blinding the Uruk-hai. They ride over the Uruk-hai and into their masses, killing and fighting.

----------------------------------

No, if you want to play it that way Neph, you have zero proof that Frodo's dream about Gandalf was the opening scene.

When I said this earlier:




You replied:




I'm afraid my "very weak evidence" is better than what you have provided.

You're making an implication that the two are connected, even though you are refusing the obvious implication that the opening scene was an actual flashback.

The Internet Movie Script Database.

Perhaps there are multiple scripts. Yours is clearly wrong however, as we can see from the video I provided that no such light comes from Gandalf's staff.

--------------------------------


I'm not playing it any way. It was a dream! Its not my fault that the script-writer decided to make the scene in which Gandalf does all this awesome shit a dream sequence. I'm just calling it like it is.

Zero proof? Theres a scene about Gandalf and then Frodo wakes up calling for Gandalf waking up from a nightmare. It would only be more obvious that was what it was referencing to if Frodo winked at the friggin' audience. The scenes directly follow from each other and Frodo directly references that he was having a dream about Gandalf, who was the focus of the previous scene and which ended abruptly, just like every other nightmare sequence does in a movie where the character jumps awake screaming, just what happens in this case. It was a classic nightmare transition.

Yeah, Gandalf said he fell through fire and water. He did not say that he fell for a longass time, rode the Balrog like a mechanical bull and tanked its punches because he has 'super-durability.' His words in no way confirm that the beginning sequence actually happened.

And it can't be a flashback, because who the hell is flashing back? Frodo wasn't there. He didn't see Gandalf stabbing the Balrog like a boss.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The Internet Movie Script Database.

Perhaps there are multiple scripts. Yours is clearly wrong however, as we can see from the video I provided that no such light comes from Gandalf's staff.

The Sun doesn't suddenly just sporadically flash X10 brightness, especially during a rather convenient moment when the Rohirrim is about to crash into a line of Uruk-Hai pikes.

That, and the script that I saw, made it rather obvious to me that Gandalf played a role in what happened.

Anyway, I suppose we are in agreement with how brilliant that scene was, with the music, light, and echo of Gandalf's yell.

--------------------------------




Okay, I understand what you are saying.

BUT the reason why it is a flashback is because the very beginning is EXACTLY what happened during Fellowship of the Ring. And after he fell off the bridge, it was what happened to Gandalf immediately afterwards.

You don't dream what exactly happened in the past...

Originally posted by Korto Vos
The Sun doesn't suddenly just sporadically flash X10 brightness, especially during a rather convenient moment when the Rohirrim is about to crash into a line of Uruk-Hai pikes.

That, and the script that I saw, made it rather obvious to me that Gandalf played a role in what happened.

Anyway, I suppose we are in agreement with how brilliant that scene was, with the music, light, and echo of Gandalf's yell.

--------------------------------




Okay, I understand what you are saying.

BUT the reason why it is a flashback is because the very beginning is EXACTLY what happened during Fellowship of the Ring. And after he fell off the bridge, it was what happened to Gandalf immediately afterwards.

You don't dream what exactly happened in the past...

You've never seen the Sun shining through something with palpable intensity? :O

Meh, you can believe that if you wish, the scenes pretty ambiguous I giess. But my point still stands: It doesn't matter, this fight is inside Hogwarts and we don't know whether Gandalf can do it with out preperation.

Well I can certainly agree to that.

Well actually..... :Puts on science specs: ..... Most of our dreams are made up of memories etc.

Anyway, agree to disagree?

Originally posted by Nephthys
You've never seen the Sun shining through something with palpable intensity? :O

Meh, you can believe that if you wish, the scenes pretty ambiguous I giess. But my point still stands: It doesn't matter, this fight is inside Hogwarts and we don't know whether Gandalf can do it with out preperation.

Well I can certainly agree to that.

Well actually..... :Puts on science specs: ..... Most of our dreams are made up of memories etc.

Anyway, agree to disagree?

I agree that it is ambiguous, which is likely the reason why those two scripts provide different interpretations.

Yeah, the Sun is rising, but it always seemed to me that Gandalf decided to juice up the brightness by casting Blinding Light.

Well...he performed another instance of Blinding Light against the Nazgul, so it is in fact a viable option for him.

-----------------------------------------------------

Yeah, but dreams don't play out EXACTLY like our memories.

Sure, we can agree to disagree.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Again, you make no sense.




It stunned them for enough time for the cavalry to rip through the line of pike defenses. In addition, it blinded hundreds of Uruks. Thus, a Blinding Light concentrated on a single opponent would be devastating.
It makes perfect sense. The killing curse will break the object it hits in some fashion. We don't see it severely blind anyone and speculating on how badly it blinds someone without proof is just wishful thinking. I get it that you really, really want Gandalf to win despite him losing in epic fashion. You need something a little more impressive than a really bright flashlight.

Yes, he used it against three foes who couldn't make out his image but still shot the arrow and were going to attack him just the same hence the burning his sword feat. If it totally blocked their vision he wouldn't need to block the arrow or burn his sword.

No, since Dumbledore had a moment or so against Voldemort and couldn't successfully defeat him and since Gandalf himself doesn't smoke through his enemies in microseconds. Think about the duration of time required to take out a Balrog and then ask yourself if Gandalf even in your mind can win this with a few attacks. You know you don't believe it.

Then the shield is broken. If not Voldemort has more than enough power just based off energy beams to break through it based off his shield busting power in deathly part 2.

Yes, it does. Saying it doesn't makes no sense hence Gandalf allowing himself to be beaten the first fight. Yes, gandalf had the same mission each time but came back more powerful the second time around in order to fulfill his mission. As regards to Voldemort's shield breaking it's more impressive than any Gandalf power feat.


Wrong. Saying it can block any single attack is invoking a no limits fallacy. It depends on the severity of the power behind the attack not that it can block anyone's first attack. Voldemort's power feat is far more impressive than anything the Balrog did on screen.


Yes, there is an argument here. I am not saying Gandalf can't hurt him I am saying he can't break his wand. There's a huge difference in not being able to cause pain and not successfully breaking his wand any time he wants. You suggesting there isn't is illogical and nonsensical. Gandalf himself had it done to him due to being lower on the food chain than the Witch King in the movie. The tactic is off the table here against someone more powerful than he is.

My argument was Gandalf's durability doesn't change only when he uses magic to aid himself he is more resistant. If gandalf just stands there and allows Grima to stab him it's going to kill him. If Gandalf is actively fighting Grima will never gepast his shields or even be in a position to do so.

Well, I am making a rational argument here. You saying I am not doesn't change that fact.

Originally posted by Robtard
Stop making things up, the death-spell is a killing spell, not a "destroys everything I need it to" spell, you're now worse than RJ in here, good job.

Gandalf solos, his shields are impregnable to the likes of Voldermort and he's more powerful overall. Gandalf fights epic battles; Voldermort dies to the hands of a man-boy student wizard. I didn't say it destroys everything it hits just a piece or a part of it. You tried proclaiming my stance was similar to whatever it hits the entire object is destroyed despite the size, shape, or whatever of the object.

Who says Gandalf solos in a one on one thread ? LOL.

Voldmort's feats are by far more impressive and powerful. Gandalf's bright light and tk is weak sauce compared to a fire basilisk, his energy blasts. avada kedavra, or a charged up black matter energy attack.

Originally posted by quanchi112
It makes perfect sense. The killing curse will break the object it hits in some fashion. We don't see it severely blind anyone and speculating on how badly it blinds someone without proof is just wishful thinking. I get it that you really, really want Gandalf to win despite him losing in epic fashion. You need something a little more impressive than a really bright flashlight.

Wait whaa-? LOL, all I'm saying is what Robtard nicely restated above: how does Avada Kedavra have staff-shattering abilities? That's all I'm saying...



He wasn't trying to cause permanent blindness, lol. It was nowhere near the magnitude of it against the Nazgul or Uruk-Hai. Yet, it still was rather potent and caused the three to have difficulty even looking forward.



If Gandalf decided to Earthquake the Bridge right away, the Balrog would have fallen within seconds. Gandalf was tired, and had no desire battling the demon- he tried to command it to flee.

And besides, I don't see how his battle against the Balrog is relevant to this duel at hand.



That Shield handily blocked a mighty smash by an eighteen-foot demon.

Furthermore, against the Blinding Light, Voldemort may off-aim his spell, and will difficulty concentrating his attack against the shield.




I'll repeat it once more- if wands can be broken by mere force, and Gandalf has the capability of burning swords or shattering legitimate staffs, then it's completely logical he can do the same to Voldemort's stick.

Your power-level argument is nonsensical. Gandalf saw the channeling by the Witch-King and held his staff in defense; otherwise, he might have shattered the Nazgul's blade or burned its hilt. Power-level has no relevance.




Regardless of whatever you believe in, Gandalf wins this duel.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Wait whaa-? LOL, all I'm saying is what Robtard nicely restated above: how does Avada Kedavra have staff-shattering abilities? That's all I'm saying...
It breaks what it hits is what I am saying. It's like a regular blast from his wand. If it hits something it's taking some damage.

Well since it has never caused anything close to permanent vision loss or anywhere near what you claimed I will take that as a concession. The manner in which he used it in close combat makes Voldemort unable to study his face or see his nosehairs but enough of his body to attack him nonetheless just like Aragorn and the rest.


You can't call Gandalf was tired when it took him over a day to defeat the Balrog. He might not have desired a fight because who would but he wasn't tired or nearly depleted at that point. Gandalf was depleted after his day plus battle though. I don't think it matters either because this is a matchup thread not to see who does better or worse in the situations these characters found themselves in.


Yes, which shows the shield is powerful but nowhere near as powerful as the Hogwarts shield which was completely disintegrating those who ran into it. Voldemort is pretty accurate to it will definitely be hitting him or his shield. Legoals didn't seem to have a problem doing so and we don't see an accuracy problem from Voldemort.


I don't think so. In the lotr movies it was clear you need to be more powerful than your opponent to do so. You can disagree but to me it doesn't make any sense to be able to do so to anyone especially when the same tactic was used against gandalf.


No, the reason gandalf didn't do so is because he couldn't. Why sit there like an idiot or not take the offensive especially if you can shatter your opponents weapon. Gandalf didn't do so against saruman in their first battle because he wasn't powerful enough yet.

Nah, Voldemort wins in a stomp. This isn't close.