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Liberals allegedly sympathize with the plight of poor and middle class (though not white suburbanites), and yet every discussion on how unchecked immigration hurts the working poor involves dismissing relevant points with DEY TUK OUR JERBS or some castigation about being xenophobic.

What gives, lefties? Aren't you supposed to be on the side of the poor?

Immigrants are really poor

Immigrants are liberally poor.



Case closed.

So you're okay with them making every other American poor (particularly unskilled workers and the shrinking middle class)?

Personally I don't agree with your assessment at all.

Then you disagree with facts.

ooooooooh, he told you Bardock

I think it is more complicated than you are making it out to be, Zeal. Like the money they put back into the system, including taxes, taking jobs that would not exist otherwise, and that no Americans would take, and the far decreased prices of certain goods.

Immigration is not a bad thing in itself, illegal immigrants aren't necessarily bad either. I assume you are not mad at teenagers for taking jobs.

The only people that Liberals care about are themselves.

That seems like an outrageous and incorrect claim. Liberals, like conservatives are people, and many of them care about many different things besides themselves.

Certain ideals associated with American liberalism however are very much designed to care about a mass of people not just yourself.

Illegal immigrants only do the jobs Americans "won't do" because those jobs do not pay enough for Americans to want to do them. If we naturally let market forces go to work, the wages of those jobs would rise until the jobs became attractive to Americans, and then Americans would take those jobs. To allow illegal immigrants to undercut Americans while simultaneously helping out large corporations at the expense of our nation is anti-American.

I assume you are against free trade then?

Originally posted by Zeal Ex Nihilo
Illegal immigrants only do the jobs Americans "won't do" because those jobs do not pay enough for Americans to want to do them. If we naturally let market forces go to work, the wages of those jobs would rise until the jobs became attractive to Americans, and then Americans would take those jobs. To allow illegal immigrants to undercut Americans while simultaneously helping out large corporations at the expense of our nation is anti-American.

Or some jobs would just not get done, or be outsourced to other countries, or prices for the goods produced by these jobs would rise significantly. Again it's a complex issue and the stance of "Illegals steal our jobs" is too simplistic and outright wrong in many cases.

To not invite and assimilate hard working people into the USA is Anti-American, to not cherish and support immigration is Anti-American.


Anti-American is also a meaningless phrase.

Originally posted by inimalist
I assume you are against free trade then?
Absolutely. Unless a country is fully developed and willing to trade freely with us, free trade has no right to exist.

Illegals depress American wages.

Originally posted by Zeal Ex Nihilo
Absolutely. Unless a country is fully developed and willing to trade freely with us, free trade has no right to exist.
This may be the only thing you've said that I agree with. Obviously, if you try and compete with a country that has a much lower minimum wage, you're going to get your ass kicked. People have been suckered into a plan that a three year old could see the holes in.

Originally posted by Zeal Ex Nihilo
Absolutely. Unless a country is fully developed and willing to trade freely with us, free trade has no right to exist.

I'd agree with that actually

and I get your point, the same thing was seen when the Berlin wall came down and when the EU started opening up travel between member states, and huge amounts of unskilled labour moved from eastern Europe into the West, it caused massive impacts on a global level.

though, I feel open trade is far more deleterious to the American poor, its not like Latinos are coming and taking all the manufacturing sector jobs in America. Those jobs don't exist any more because they have moved to nations were labour is relatively free.

Originally posted by Zeal Ex Nihilo
Illegal immigrants only do the jobs Americans "won't do" because those jobs do not pay enough for Americans to want to do them. If we naturally let market forces go to work, the wages of those jobs would rise until the jobs became attractive to Americans, and then Americans would take those jobs. To allow illegal immigrants to undercut Americans while simultaneously helping out large corporations at the expense of our nation is anti-American.

Then you'll be bitching that your $0.65 orange of before is costing you $2.84 now.

Originally posted by Bardock42
That seems like an outrageous and incorrect claim. Liberals, like conservatives are people, and many of them care about many different things besides themselves.

Certain ideals associated with American liberalism however are very much designed to care about a mass of people not just yourself.

If you say so.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Immigrants are really poor

yeah uh? they pay no income tax. and what I do see, half of them are saving money and living better than some Americans

Originally posted by alltoomany
yeah uh? they pay no income tax. and what I do see, half of them are saving money and living better than some Americans

They're living the American dream, good for them.

Originally posted by alltoomany
yeah uh? they pay no income tax. and what I do see, half of them are saving money and living better than some Americans
Half of americans don't pay income taxes. They still get hammered by state taxes, sales tax etc. That said, if they're becoming more prosperous than Americans, its because they work harder and save up. In which case, we should be welcoming them because they're obviously better at this kind of stuff than natives.

Originally posted by Robtard
They're living the American dream, good for them.

YES! They save thier money then take it back to thier native country with them. most of them only shop amoung there own kind but they will steal from an american... I agree living the dream!

Originally posted by alltoomany
YES! They save thier money then take it back to thier native country with them. most of them only shop amoung there own kind but they will steal from an american... I agree living the dream!

It's their money, they should be allowed to spend it as they wish, no?

Pretty sure most immigrants don't travel back to their native country to shop.

America's routinely steal from other Americans and I don't agree with your "immigrants are thieves" blanket-statement. Some are, sure.

Its good. I like it..!!