HP Doomsday vs SBP

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red_turtle
who wins

killer_creed
Prime.

Cogito
Prime has more and better feats.

When matched up against Superman, I'd say both did comparable damage with comparable ease.

With BFR on, Prime wins easy. Without BFR....I don't know, maybe DD can push the slugfest into the night and win when SBP is weaker. Maybe not. Overall I'd say Prime is more impressive.

quanchi112
Prime wins.

red_turtle
who is the toughest guy prime was able to beat? as far as i remember konner gave him a lot of trouble, not to mention supergirl and superman owning him, also lets bring the fact the slashes always beat him up , amazo? lets bring the fact he is scared to death of amazo, lets also bring the fact he was helpless against the black lanterns, sodom yat gave him trouble? oh yeah and his recent showing? Lol thats just a low herald feat

Cogito
Prime no-sold Mordru's attacks in Lo3W.

He busted through and BFR'd the Anti-Monitor into deep space.

He's taken on ridiculous lineups like masses of GLs, Earth Heroes, and Supermen with pretty little effort.

He trashed Sodam Yat Ion actually with remarkable ease.

Superboy did give him trouble, which is a weird inconsistency. Average Prime would have cut him in half with HV easily. The Teen Titans ending I think we can all write off.

quanchi112
@Cognito

You can't write showings off just because you don't like them.

Sundipped
Originally posted by Cogito
Prime no-sold Mordru's attacks in Lo3W.

He busted through and BFR'd the Anti-Monitor into deep space.

He's taken on ridiculous lineups like masses of GLs, Earth Heroes, and Supermen with pretty little effort.

He trashed Sodam Yat Ion actually with remarkable ease.

Superboy did give him trouble, which is a weird inconsistency. Average Prime would have cut him in half with HV easily. The Teen Titans ending I think we can all write off.

That fight against the TT's should be shown under the comic definition of jobbing. No words needed.

-Pr-
Originally posted by quanchi112
@Cognito

You can't write showings off just because you don't like them.

If they're inconsistent they can be considered low feats or SvsF depending on the instance.

quanchi112
Originally posted by -Pr-
If they're inconsistent they can be considered low feats or SvsF depending on the instance. They can be considered inconsistent or against his general portrayal but we can't completely ignore them. If it's one showing it won't counter all his other feats anyways.

-Pr-
Originally posted by quanchi112
They can be considered inconsistent or against his general portrayal but we can't completely ignore them. If it's one showing it won't counter all his other feats anyways.

Then why argue about it?

Cogito
Originally posted by quanchi112
@Cognito

You can't write showings off just because you don't like them.

If it were his only showing, or one of only a couple showings he had, then it would indeed be ridiculous to give credence to it.

...But it's a massively low showing that was forced to occur too quickly and illogically because of the reboot. That's not Prime's fault. It's may or may not even be the writers' fault.

red_turtle
Originally posted by Cogito
Prime no-sold Mordru's attacks in Lo3W.

He busted through and BFR'd the Anti-Monitor into deep space.

He's taken on ridiculous lineups like masses of GLs, Earth Heroes, and Supermen with pretty little effort.

He trashed Sodam Yat Ion actually with remarkable ease.

Superboy did give him trouble, which is a weird inconsistency. Average Prime would have cut him in half with HV easily. The Teen Titans ending I think we can all write off.

bu bfr anti monitor after anti monitor was hurt and injured thats not a win

canon folder GLs? oh come on who doesnt beat them? i would say black adam was on par with him as far as team trashing, and still the canon folder rule doesnt help prime as he got owned by DC heroes, the flash f amily,black lanterns, and of course teen titans

sodom yat is nothing impressive, to add more he gave prime a fight and some trouble and he just got his powers so he didnt know perfectly how to use them

so basically superman is the strongest one he defeated ?

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by red_turtle
bu bfr anti monitor after anti monitor was hurt and injured thats not a win

canon folder GLs? oh come on who doesnt beat them? i would say black adam was on par with him as far as team trashing, and still the canon folder rule doesnt help prime as he got owned by DC heroes, the flash f amily,black lanterns, and of course teen titans

sodom yat is nothing impressive, to add more he gave prime a fight and some trouble and he just got his powers so he didnt know perfectly how to use them mhmm

mmm

I like this guy. sneer

carver9
Originally posted by red_turtle
bu bfr anti monitor after anti monitor was hurt and injured thats not a win

canon folder GLs? oh come on who doesnt beat them? i would say black adam was on par with him as far as team trashing, and still the canon folder rule doesnt help prime as he got owned by DC heroes, the flash f amily,black lanterns, and of course teen titans

sodom yat is nothing impressive, to add more he gave prime a fight and some trouble and he just got his powers so he didnt know perfectly how to use them

so basically superman is the strongest one he defeated ?

Good post.

-Pr-
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
mhmm

mmm

I like this guy. sneer

Originally posted by carver9
Good post.

mmm

Sundipped
Originally posted by red_turtle
bu bfr anti monitor after anti monitor was hurt and injured thats not a win

canon folder GLs? oh come on who doesnt beat them? i would say black adam was on par with him as far as team trashing, and still the canon folder rule doesnt help prime as he got owned by DC heroes, the flash f amily,black lanterns, and of course teen titans

sodom yat is nothing impressive, to add more he gave prime a fight and some trouble and he just got his powers so he didnt know perfectly how to use them

so basically superman is the strongest one he defeated ?

About Black Adam.....remember he got knocked away from the tower after "tickling" Prime. Prime>>>>>BA. Primes team thrashing was more impressive. Look at who all was there:

http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/9126/everyoneone47cb65.th.jpg http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/6345/everyoneone248c0d1.th.jpg

Plus he tanked 3 Guardian blasts simultaneously and made one have to self destruct when Prime gripped his face.

carver9
Originally posted by Sundipped
About Black Adam.....remember he got knocked away from the tower after "tickling" Prime. Prime>>>>>BA. Primes team thrashing was more impressive. Look at who all was there:

http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/9126/everyoneone47cb65.th.jpg http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/6345/everyoneone248c0d1.th.jpg

Plus he tanked 3 Guardian blasts simultaneously and made one have to self destruct when Prime gripped his face.

Prime had a lil help during that fight and CIS played a huge role in that fight as well (just like Adams). Has Prime had any type of single, one on one fights against anyone worth mentioning?

Sundipped
^ What help? He was fighting both corps.

carver9
Wasn't a pissed Sinestro there along with other villians?

Sundipped
Look at the first scan. He had his hands full.

Sundipped
My bad. Edit - look at second scan.

-Pr-
Originally posted by carver9
Wasn't a pissed Sinestro there along with other villians?

He was at the battle, but he was fighting Hal and Kyle.

carver9
Originally posted by Sundipped
Look at the first scan. He had his hands full.

Adam took on more impressive teams imo and the numbers that usually goes up against him is enormous. It really doesnt matter because the people that they are taking on, Black Adam and Prime shouldn't do as well as they did.

Looking at single battles, Black Adam fts are superior. Looking at team battles, I would still give the edge to Adam.

Sundipped
Originally posted by carver9
It really doesnt matter because the people that they are taking on, Black Adam and Prime shouldn't do as well as they did.


Prime should but not BA. BA is basically</=Supes. Prime has shown to be consistently beyond both.

quanchi112
Originally posted by -Pr-
Then why argue about it? Because it's different than ignoring it.Originally posted by Cogito
If it were his only showing, or one of only a couple showings he had, then it would indeed be ridiculous to give credence to it.

...But it's a massively low showing that was forced to occur too quickly and illogically because of the reboot. That's not Prime's fault. It's may or may not even be the writers' fault. It must be factored in with all the other showings as well.

carver9
Originally posted by Sundipped
Prime should but not BA. BA is basically</=Supes. Prime has shown to be consistently beyond both.


Who had Prime walked through to make you believe he should be capable of running through high tier beings withotu Adam being unable to do so? Prime got stalemated by a rookie Ion who just received his powers. Prime also had a hard time with Conner as well. His solo fights isn't all that great and a pissed Superman would have gave Prime a hellava fight if it came down to it.

Prime fts involves taking on teams and if that is the reason you think so highly of him then you need to count a lot of other people as well INCLUDING Adam.

-Pr-
Originally posted by carver9
Who had Prime walked through to make you believe he should be capable of running through high tier beings withotu Adam being unable to do so? Prime got stalemated by a rookie Ion who just received his powers. Prime also had a hard time with Conner as well. His solo fights isn't all that great and a pissed Superman would have gave Prime a hellava fight if it came down to it.

Prime fts involves taking on teams and if that is the reason you think so highly of him then you need to count a lot of other people as well INCLUDING Adam.

A rookie Ion that had Kryptonian level stats. Conner is the exception, not the rule. He always has been.

h1a8
Any being that can move planets around like toys, can resist universal destroying blasts, can shatter dimensions with punches is FAR BEYOND
Black Adam or any herald level being. This ridiculousness has just got to stop.

Sundipped
Originally posted by carver9
Who had Prime walked through to make you believe he should be capable of running through high tier beings withotu Adam being unable to do so? Prime got stalemated by a rookie Ion who just received his powers. Prime also had a hard time with Conner as well. His solo fights isn't all that great and a pissed Superman would have gave Prime a hellava fight if it came down to it.

Prime fts involves taking on teams and if that is the reason you think so highly of him then you need to count a lot of other people as well INCLUDING Adam.

Let me ask you...are you saying BA = Prime? Just the fact that Prime wrecks herald level teams should give you the assumption that any 1 herald would be useless. Not the case aside from WW3 for BA.

Prime ko'ed Earth 2 Supes with hv. A pissed Supes is not going to faze a already pissed Prime. As PR pointed out Conner is the exception but lol at you saying it was a stalemate with Ion. Does this look like a stalemate to you?

http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/7816/primevsion13fe77fb.th.jpg

leonidas
Originally posted by h1a8
Any being that can move planets around like toys, can resist universal destroying blasts, can shatter dimensions with punches is FAR BEYOND
Black Adam or any herald level being. This ridiculousness has just got to stop.

thumb up

as for the fight, i really have no idea....

Slaanesh
Originally posted by Sundipped
Prime ko'ed Earth 2 Supes with hv. A pissed Supes is not going to faze a already pissed Prime. As PR pointed out Conner is the exception but lol at you saying it was a stalemate with Ion. Does this look like a stalemate to you?

Ion was doing great until he got lead poisoning..

Cogito
Originally posted by Slaanesh
Ion was doing great until he got lead poisoning..

He really wasn't. He was getting his ass kicked before he got a lead pipe shoved up said ass.

Originally posted by h1a8
Any being that can move planets around like toys, can resist universal destroying blasts, can shatter dimensions with punches is FAR BEYOND
Black Adam or any herald level being. This ridiculousness has just got to stop.

thumb up

Originally posted by carver9
Prime fts involves taking on teams and if that is the reason you think so highly of him then you need to count a lot of other people as well INCLUDING Adam.

His team fights are ridiculous. Black Adam never fought the likes of dozens of GLs, Supermen, Guardians, Justice Society, etc. all at the same time.

Even if you take out his fights, just take a look at his other feats:
Dimension busting
Tossing planets around the universe
Heat Vision capable of cutting through Superman and GL shields like a hot knife through butter
Flying through 300mile thick GL construct wall
Laughing off attacks from Mordru
Surviving universe busting explosion
etc.

Originally posted by red_turtle
bu bfr anti monitor after anti monitor was hurt and injured thats not a win

canon folder GLs? oh come on who doesnt beat them? i would say black adam was on par with him as far as team trashing, and still the canon folder rule doesnt help prime as he got owned by DC heroes, the flash f amily,black lanterns, and of course teen titans

sodom yat is nothing impressive, to add more he gave prime a fight and some trouble and he just got his powers so he didnt know perfectly how to use them

so basically superman is the strongest one he defeated ?
Anti-Monitor was hurt, but Prime still flew through pure anti-matter with no problem.

Given me another example of a character that tears through even "fodder" GLs so easily. By the way, many of those GLs were legit.

Sodam Yat is impressive. Kyle with Ion I'd call Trans. That's Ion tossed in a human body. Start with a Daxamite and things go up fast. Sodam Yat may have been a relative rookie, but he wasn't that fresh. He had already done some impressive stuff with a ring.



90% of the time Prime is defeated by plot devices, not any number of heroes.

OneDumbG0
^ He was beat by the Earth heroes in Sinestro Corps War before the sun rose. Also beaten by the Flashes after they BFR'ed him to the future in Infinite Crisis. Originally posted by h1a8
Any being that can move planets around like toys, can resist universal destroying blasts, can shatter dimensions with punches is FAR BEYOND
Black Adam or any herald level being. This ridiculousness has just got to stop. But not the Teen Titans. vin

Sundipped
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ He was beat by the Earth heroes in Sinestro Corps War before the sun rose.

Not quite ODG. He was getting rocked but he wasn't defeated.

red_turtle
Originally posted by Cogito




Anti-Monitor was hurt, but Prime still flew through pure anti-matter with no problem.

Given me another example of a character that tears through even "fodder" GLs so easily. By the way, many of those GLs were legit.

Sodam Yat is impressive. Kyle with Ion I'd call Trans. That's Ion tossed in a human body. Start with a Daxamite and things go up fast. Sodam Yat may have been a relative rookie, but he wasn't that fresh. He had already done some impressive stuff with a ring.



90% of the time Prime is defeated by plot devices, not any number of heroes.

dude anti monitor was hurt and injured prime surprised him thats not a feat

the GLs were just a canon fodder at this point any villian would do the same as prime doomsday black adam or what ever and those GLs were nobodies anyway

kyle with ION a trans? thats a strech he didnt do anything to be put as trans , i would even say that thor could handle him his ass, as i said before i will say again he just recieven the ION power he didnt know how to use it properly and still he manage to beat up SBP until that plot device that helped prime

Lol 90% of the time prime is defeated by plot device? so basically you are saying that when ever prime is fighting during the night and not during a full sunny day its PIS? you know what it can work both ways i can clame that when ever prime fights during the sunlight its a plot device since IT IS his plot device , besides lets not forget that in all those fights prime had his power suit which maintains the sunlight energy and he still got beat up

tell me something what impressive 1 on 1 fights did he have? he fought conner and he had trouble i would even say they were at the same league

he got humiliated by the flash family , got humiliated by amazo and was scared like some child

the DC heroes owned him big time until the sun rose

superman and supergirl was enough to take him down and make him cry

lets also not forget sodam yat as i pointed out just got his powers and already was causing troubles to prime until the plot device which helped prime

the black lanterns were too much for him to handle like he said if i cant beat you i will join you

and of course how can we not forget the recent teen titans beating him up it was very humiliating

you call all those PIS even with the fact they are the majority? well i will call his other strong feats PIS because he can break reality (with a plot device) and drag planets as much as he wants but when i see fight after fight after fight prime getting stalmeted by heralds and constantly being showed as conner match and league i will just laugh at his few uber feats and thats the real prime a herald

Sundipped
Originally posted by red_turtle
the DC heroes owned him big time until the sun rose


I would take time out to respond to your whole post but I'm sure Cogito will respond back. This stood out however. I'm having trouble trying to see where Prime was "owned big time". Prime was wasting them 1 by 1 untill they damaged his armor.

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by Sundipped
Not quite ODG. He was getting rocked but he wasn't defeated. I'm not getting into the whole "the fight never ended" argument again. It's semantics and, frankly, it would equally apply to Superman Prime's "wins" also.

Omega Vision
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I'm not getting into the whole "the fight never ended" argument again. It's semantics and, frankly, it would equally apply to Superman Prime's "wins" also.
Here's what I'm wondering: if Prime was close to being beaten (and I agree, he was, though only because he was running out of power due to having his artificial solar supply destroyed) why didn't the heroes simply grab him back and finish the job?

Sundipped
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Here's what I'm wondering: if Prime was close to being beaten (and I agree, he was, though only because he was running out of power due to having his artificial solar supply destroyed) why didn't the heroes simply grab him back and finish the job?

They couldn't because the sun was rising.

Sundipped
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I'm not getting into the whole "the fight never ended" argument again. It's semantics and, frankly, it would equally apply to Superman Prime's "wins" also.

shifty Reminiscent of the Odin vs. Thanos debate huh?

One thing about Prime's fights tho is either he's bfr'ed or beats the opposition to a pulp. A convincing conclusion either way.

red_turtle
Originally posted by Sundipped
shifty Reminiscent of the Odin vs. Thanos debate huh?

One thing about Prime's fights tho is either he's bfr'ed or beats the opposition to a pulp. A convincing conclusion either way.

strange but it was the opposite with the titans as he was beaten down to a pulp confused

OneDumbG0
^ Shush. Nobody wants to talk about Kon-El and Bart Allen matching Prime. Despite them doing it three times each. Originally posted by Sundipped
shifty Reminiscent of the Odin vs. Thanos debate huh?

One thing about Prime's fights tho is either he's bfr'ed or beats the opposition to a pulp. A convincing conclusion either way. Flashes beat him off-panel in the future. And Prime's respective opposition in Infinite Crisis, Sinestro Corps War and Legion of 3 Worlds was still fighting. Those groups of heroes still had to deal with the other crises that were going on after all (save for Prime's second rampage in Infinite Crisis where he was the last threat).

Let's be careful about overgeneralizing that every single hero that got in Prime's way was ktfo for the rest of storyline. Because that's simply not true. If you go by foes that Prime actually legitimately "pulped," he pulped Superboy twice, killed/maimed a few Teen Titans, pulped depowered Kal-L, pulped Ion, killed several GLs/YLs, and killed a few Legionnaires. Everybody else that got in his way was knocked around but they were still fighting.

It wasn't like Death of Superman or even World War Hulk where each consecutive foe, or group of foes, was ktfo for virtually the rest of the story. It was more like World War III, a bunch of ko's, some casualties, but the majority of heroes were still in it in the end.

h1a8
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ He was beat by the Earth heroes in Sinestro Corps War before the sun rose. Also beaten by the Flashes after they BFR'ed him to the future in Infinite Crisis. But not the Teen Titans. vin He's even further beyond them than BA.

OneDumbG0
^ Not really seeing it. WWIII Black Adam was only stopped via plot device as well. Beat the living crap out of the Marvel family several times the way Prime beat the crap out of a few Kryptonians. Teth couldn't be stopped by the combined heroes either. This is after an entire week of fighting and with no benefit of another huge crisis spreading the heroes thin.

In fact, WWIII Black Adam never got challenged by Kon-El or Bart Allen three times a piece or defeated by the Teen Titans. WWIII BA > SMP? vin

-Pr-
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Shush. Nobody wants to talk about Kon-El and Bart Allen matching Prime. Despite them doing it three times each.

If they were truly matching him, then he's either not that powerful, or those two got a huge amp.

OneDumbG0
^ No indication of amps. In all seriousness, it was probably something like four parts psychological, one part physical. But that one part physical is important. No matter how rattled you are, if you can't feel their punches, you're not going to run away. And Prime felt em.

Sundipped
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Shush. Nobody wants to talk about Kon-El and Bart Allen matching Prime.

We sure don't. mad



It's a longer list if you include Guardian Amp Prime but I'm not sure if thats applicable.

Anyway yeah, valiant effort for those who managed to survive. wink

Sundipped
Originally posted by red_turtle
strange but it was the opposite with the titans as he was beaten down to a pulp confused

-Pr-
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ No indication of amps. In all seriousness, it was probably something like four parts psychological, one part physical. But that one part physical is important. No matter how rattled you are, if you can't feel their punches, you're not going to run away. And Prime felt em.

So what actual conclusion are you coming to? That Prime is herald level and not above it?

OneDumbG0
^ That Prime isn't "faaar" above WWIII Black Adam and Prime isn't above being soundly beaten by the entire Teen Titans roster in an issue-long fight where they're working flawlessly as a team.

red_turtle
Originally posted by Sundipped


how was it jobbing? every time prime fought conner he got trouble and was matched at somr point, this time it was conner + titans and they owned him, its not the first time you know he got owned by superman and super girl combined and he got owned by a bunch of DC heroes before the sun rose, and the flash family? there punches hurt him as hell to the point he escaped... face it SBP is just a herald

-Pr-
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ That Prime isn't "faaar" above WWIII Black Adam and Prime isn't above being soundly beaten by the entire Teen Titans roster in an issue-long fight where they're working flawlessly as a team.

Ah...

Cogito
Originally posted by Sundipped
I would take time out to respond to your whole post but I'm sure Cogito will respond back.

Alright let's do this. What follows will be rather incomplete because I'm short on time, and will mostly only touch on the Sinestro Corps War

I'm not sure what I'm arguing though.
Is the claim that SBP is weaker than HP DD?
That SBP is weaker than WWIII Black Adam?

Whatever, let's go.

Originally posted by red_turtle
just recieven the ION power he didnt know how to use it properly and still he manage to beat up SBP until that plot device that helped prime

Without posting scans of the fight, Sodam Yat punched SBP once, hit him with one GL blast of some sort, and heat visioned him once before he got his ass beat and impaled. There was not so much as a grunt of pain.

Then Ion fights some more, gets a few good hits on SBP. That is, until SBP beats him so bad he "feels the incessant blows and the bones splintering and cracking beneath his feat" and Ion asks himself if this is where he's going to die.

Originally posted by red_turtle
dude anti monitor was hurt and injured prime surprised him thats not a feat

O rly? Lets start at the beginning.

Anti-Monitor's mere touch scars a Guardian
"Their Guardian (Anti-Monitor) is dead!" Anti-Monitor disagrees
SBP immediately kills Anti-Monitor by busting through him

Ok, so what do we have here. A touch of antimatter can harm and kill a Guardian, yet it does absolutely nothing to SBP when he flies straight through it.

Originally posted by red_turtle
the GLs were just a canon fodder at this point any villian would do the same as prime doomsday black adam or what ever and those GLs were nobodies anyway

Canon fodder?
I see not only two lesser GLs, but also Kilowog, Alan Scott, Superman, Powergirl....
and Guardians

Originally posted by red_turtle
kyle with ION a trans?

Say what you will, but Kyle without Ion is a legit high herald.

Originally posted by red_turtle
Lol 90% of the time prime is defeated by plot device? so basically you are saying that when ever prime is fighting during the night and not during a full sunny day its PIS?

No, I'm not saying fighting at night is PIS. I'm saying he's defeat by plot forces - the Speed Force, Guardian suicide, imminent reboot, and the like.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ He was beat by the Earth heroes in Sinestro Corps War before the sun rose.

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb378/CogitoXP/SBPDrained.jpg
http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb378/CogitoXP/SBPDrained2.jpg

States very plainly in these scans that SBP needed the armor at night because he was so drained from being held prisoner for a year in a red sun. While he's absolutely weaker at night than during the day, he is nearly completely drained without the use of his armor in this specific instance in time. This is not a normal nighttime power level for him sans armor.

Even without armor, though, his HV cuts through Superman with ease

And let's look at who fights SBP and beats him pre-sunrise.

We have, among others: Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, Miss Martian, Alan Scott, Zauriel, Starman...Serious heavy hitters all of them. And this was immediately following his fight with Superman, Supergirl, and Power Girl.

And of course that was after his initial welcoming party

I'd keep going with this, and maybe I'll follow up with more, but I'm out of time now.

Sundipped
Originally posted by red_turtle
how was it jobbing? every time prime fought conner he got trouble and was matched at somr point, this time it was conner + titans and they owned him, its not the first time you know he got owned by superman and super girl combined and he got owned by a bunch of DC heroes before the sun rose, and the flash family? there punches hurt him as hell to the point he escaped... face it SBP is just a herald

One thing that urks me is the WG lasso incident. In SC it was a non factor:

http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/3926/primvs744e71d4.th.jpg

But here vs. the Titans Prime is struggling with it. That move is what gave the TT's the upper hand and they were able to collectively beat him. disgust

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/2190/sbp5.th.jpg

I sort of expected the writers to give Conner some kind of redemption. After all he is the hero and therefore I wouldn't give that victory precedence over all of Prime's other accomplishments/feats.

Prime shot hv right through Supes during SC indicating Prime is way out of his league. The group Prime fought got what (a couple punches in) before the sun came up? That's nowhere near close to being owned

As far as the Flashes are concerned, look how many it took to successfully bfr him. It was no cakewalk.

http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/3576/primevssuperboy1446c554.th.jpg

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by Sundipped
One thing that urks me is the WG lasso incident. In SC it was a non factor:

http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/3926/primvs744e71d4.th.jpg

But here vs. the Titans Prime is struggling with it. That move is what gave the TT's the upper hand and they were able to collectively beat him. disgust

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/2190/sbp5.th.jpg At the same time, Red Star's attack was totally hurting Prime in Sinestro Corps War:

http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/10/25/1539595/primvs7.jpg

... while Prime no-sold Red Star's attack in Teen Titans.

http://s3d2.turboimagehost.com/t/8803505_08.jpg Originally posted by Sundipped
I sort of expected the writers to give Conner some kind of redemption. After all he is the hero and therefore I wouldn't give that victory precedence over all of Prime's other accomplishments/feats.

Prime shot hv right through Supes during SC indicating Prime is way out of his league. The group Prime fought got what (a couple punches in) before the sun came up? That's nowhere near close to being ownedSo Kon-El doing it three times and Bart Allen doing it three times deserves no consideration?

Phantom Zone Zod shot hv right through Superman in For Tomorrow. Hell, kid Chris Kent shot hv right through Zod during Last Son. Originally posted by Sundipped
As far as the Flashes are concerned, look how many it took to successfully bfr him. It was no cakewalk.

http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/3576/primevssuperboy1446c554.th.jpg Yeah, Bart Allen shoulda just beat the crap out of him straight-up instead of bothering with time-travel. vin

JakeTheBank
Honestly, I think the only reason why Kon fares surprisingly well against Prime is because of him being Johns' favorite Titan, who also penned Infinite Crisis, SCW, and Lo3W, as well as the whole "Superboy vs. Superboy" draw.

In any case, I do think Prime is unfairly given "pre-crisis" level power levels, when he's really not, imo.

-Pr-
He really isn't.

JakeTheBank
Honestly, I don't consider Prime to be decisively all that much more powerful than New Earth Kal-El if/once he cuts loose. shrug

-Pr-
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Honestly, I don't consider Prime to be decisively all that much more powerful than New Earth Kal-El if/once he cuts loose. shrug

That's honestly the way I've always seen it; though for a long time on this forum it's been the minority view.

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by Cogito
http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb378/CogitoXP/SBPDrained.jpg
http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb378/CogitoXP/SBPDrained2.jpg

States very plainly in these scans that SBP needed the armor at night because he was so drained from being held prisoner for a year in a red sun. While he's absolutely weaker at night than during the day, he is nearly completely drained without the use of his armor in this specific instance in time. This is not a normal nighttime power level for him sans armor. http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/10/25/1539595/primvs3.jpg

States very plainly in this scan that SBP was nearly whole again due to his armor. So the heroes beat him down from when he was nearly whole again. Just an fyi.

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by -Pr-
That's honestly the way I've always seen it; though for a long time on this forum it's been the minority view.

Yeah, and Kal's got way more experience using his powers and in ways aside from just brute strength and lethal force. And in virtually every instance of a Prime/Kal showdown, Kal was trying to redeem Prime or reason with him instead of just kick his ass. Ultimately, I think Prime is a bit more powerful, but he wouldn't rage stomp Kal one on one in a real fight, imo.

-Pr-
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Yeah, and Kal's got way more experience using his powers and in ways aside from just brute strength and lethal force. And in virtually every instance of a Prime/Kal showdown, Kal was trying to redeem Prime or reason with him instead of just kick his ass. Ultimately, I think Prime is a bit more powerful, but he wouldn't rage stomp Kal one on one in a real fight, imo.

I was always of the opinion that an actual fight between them was a toss up, if both of them are bringing their a-game.

Cogito
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/10/25/1539595/primvs3.jpg

States very plainly in this scan that SBP was nearly whole again due to his armor. So the heroes beat him down from when he was nearly whole again. Just an fyi.

This is true. My point was merely that he wasn't 100%. Furthermore, between when he said that and when he got beat down he did a substantial amount of fighting and was exposed to red solar radiation (albeit with the armor on). We don't know exactly how that affected him.

It's clear from the portrayal that he was drained right before the sun came up and then rejuvenated after, so he wasn't 100%. As I said in my first post in this thread, HP DD might have a decent shot at winning if he could push the fight into the night and face a weakened SBP.

I do apologize, though, for perhaps insinuating more weakness than may have been the case.

Sundipped
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
At the same time, Red Star's attack was totally hurting Prime in Sinestro Corps War:

http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/10/25/1539595/primvs7.jpg

... while Prime no-sold Red Star's attack in Teen Titans.

http://s3d2.turboimagehost.com/t/8803505_08.jpg

Inconsistancies in both cases but the difference is the laso turned the tide and proved to be Primes downfall. To Red Star's credit, Prime did admit he had power. Don't hear a compliment from him too often.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
So Kon-El doing it three times and Bart Allen doing it three times deserves no consideration?

As stated earlier, Kon-El is the exception. I'll give Bart credit where credit is due.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Phantom Zone Zod shot hv right through Superman in For Tomorrow. Hell, kid Chris Kent shot hv right through Zod during Last Son.

Don't know the circumstances behind those cases but I don't wanna say Kryptonians show weaknesses toward their own powersets. Seems more believable for Prime to be able to do so. His ko'ed Earth 2 Supes/Wondergirl, sniped Zariel, sliced Gls in half, hurt Guardians, etc.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Yeah, Bart Allen shoulda just beat the crap out of him straight-up instead of bothering with time-travel. vin

You know, I really don't know why they potray him being fearful of the Flashes. Especially after his reaction/reflex speed has been shown to be on par with 3 simultaneously. I just don't get it. confused1

http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/7369/realvsclone85000acb.th.jpg

red_turtle
Originally posted by Cogito


Without posting scans of the fight, Sodam Yat punched SBP once, hit him with one GL blast of some sort, and heat visioned him once before he got his ass beat and impaled. There was not so much as a grunt of pain.

Then Ion fights some more, gets a few good hits on SBP. That is, until SBP beats him so bad he "feels the incessant blows and the bones splintering and cracking beneath his feat" and Ion asks himself if this is where he's going to die.



O rly? Lets start at the beginning.

Anti-Monitor's mere touch scars a Guardian
"Their Guardian (Anti-Monitor) is dead!" Anti-Monitor disagrees
SBP immediately kills Anti-Monitor by busting through him

Ok, so what do we have here. A touch of antimatter can harm and kill a Guardian, yet it does absolutely nothing to SBP when he flies straight through it.



Canon fodder?
I see not only two lesser GLs, but also Kilowog, Alan Scott, Superman, Powergirl....
and Guardians



Say what you will, but Kyle without Ion is a legit high herald.



No, I'm not saying fighting at night is PIS. I'm saying he's defeat by plot forces - the Speed Force, Guardian suicide, imminent reboot, and the like.



http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb378/CogitoXP/SBPDrained.jpg
http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb378/CogitoXP/SBPDrained2.jpg

States very plainly in these scans that SBP needed the armor at night because he was so drained from being held prisoner for a year in a red sun. While he's absolutely weaker at night than during the day, he is nearly completely drained without the use of his armor in this specific instance in time. This is not a normal nighttime power level for him sans armor.

Even without armor, though, his HV cuts through Superman with ease

And let's look at who fights SBP and beats him pre-sunrise.

We have, among others: Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, Miss Martian, Alan Scott, Zauriel, Starman...Serious heavy hitters all of them. And this was immediately following his fight with Superman, Supergirl, and Power Girl.

And of course that was after his initial welcoming party

I'd keep going with this, and maybe I'll follow up with more, but I'm out of time now.


the sodam yat fight? you basically see him giving prime trouble and making him bleed UNTIL that plot device kicked in and prime got the upper hand due to the plot device , Lol i find it ironic how you always clame if prime loses its due to plot device how ever in this fight prime won due to a plot device smile

SBP showed some good resistance to exploding forces as he showed to magic... how does it change the fact it counters your argument that prime owned anti monitor and that prime never does impressive in any fight ?

kyle without ION is not a high herald i think he is low- mid herald but thats an opinion thing, how ever for me ION kyle was the ordinary kyle as he just recieved his powers and didnt really know how to use them properly, and of course the plot device kicks in which didnt allow the fight to end properly... i think the writer wanted to say something by letting prime win due to a plot device

Lol so now ever force that defeated prime is suddenly a plot force? its like having superman fray his ass with the heat vision and then go and say "superman won because of the heat vision plot device" thats just rediculous, the speed force is something the flashes were able to create due to there power so that power defeated prime whats wrong with that? if thor owns somebody with a tornado its a plot device? get real, and SBP had his power suit almost in every one of those fights and he still gothis ass handed to him specially by the teen titans wink

it was stated that his power was almost fully restored and it was stated at the beginning of the arc, in the middle of that fight most chances his powers already were restored to normal levels

ok so his heat vision cuts superman with easy and the teen titans recent showing shows he cant even hurt a low herald with his heat vision so its 1 feat vs 1 feat whyshould we go by yours then?

heavy hitters? all i see is couple of heralds that it , and each of those heralds got a good lick on prime just like martian manhunter did, what about supergirl and superman owning him with there heat vision and make him cry for mommy? what about that? what about nobodies beating him down before the sun rose?

how about the flash family beating him down making him bleed and run away? 3 times!!!!!

and why wont you adress my point of conner giving him always a hard fight and hurting him?

i see that everytime it gets to prime people always make excuses like prime getting owned in the night its due to him being weaker but he got his power suit on so its full power prime, but when prime beats ION due to a plot device thats cool smokin'

and the recent teen titans fight is very valid but people choose just to ignore it like it didnt happen even with the fact that conner alone always gave prime serious trouble and that during all his fights he got licked by bunch of heralds all around so stop with this imaginary skyfather prime because he is just superman level

KuRuPT Thanosi
Originally posted by h1a8
Any being that can move planets around like toys, can resist universal destroying blasts, can shatter dimensions with punches is FAR BEYOND
Black Adam or any herald level being. This ridiculousness has just got to stop.

I see the term context has little meaning to you when you post...

Galan007
Originally posted by h1a8
Any being that can move planets around like toys, can resist universal destroying blasts, can shatter dimensions with punches is FAR BEYOND
Black Adam or any herald level being. I agree, actually. I think Prime is capable of beating any herald out there.

On another note, I'm unconvinced that Prime is much more powerful than H/P Doomsday (if at all.) Doomsday nearly killed Darkseid with something like 4 strikes (and that's back when Darky was written at some of his most powerful levels to date), he no-sold the OE and AF, he trounced an amped Superman multiple times, he owned Waverider, he utterly shit stomped the collective team-up of Kyle, Wally, J'onn, Dianna, Orion, and Plastic Man. Etc. etc.

In physical confrontations Prime is an absolute beast, no denying that... But so is H/P Doomsday. That makes this battle ridiculously hard to gauge.

leonidas
Originally posted by Galan007
I agree, actually. I think Prime is capable of beating any herald out there.

On another note, I'm unconvinced that Prime is much more powerful than H/P Doomsday (if at all.) Doomsday nearly killed Darkseid with something like 4 strikes (and that's back when Darky was written at some of his most powerful levels to date), he no-sold the OE and AF, he trounced an amped Superman multiple times, he owned Waverider, he utterly shit stomped the collective team-up of Kyle, Wally, J'onn, Dianna, Orion, and Plastic Man. Etc. etc.

In physical confrontations Prime is an absolute beast, no denying that... But so is H/P Doomsday. That makes this battle ridiculously hard to gauge.

ha! you took like.....13 lines to say what i said with one line and a thumbs up. i am efficient. nwoot

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by Sundipped
Inconsistancies in both cases but the difference is the laso turned the tide and proved to be Primes downfall. To Red Star's credit, Prime did admit he had power. Don't hear a compliment from him too often. Don't see him no-sell the one weakness he still has either. Teen Titans basically had to take him down straight-up. Originally posted by Sundipped
As stated earlier, Kon-El is the exception. I'll give Bart credit where credit is due. Don't see any reason to act like Kon-El didn't do what he did... three times over. Given another opportunity, he'd probably do it again. Originally posted by Sundipped
Don't know the circumstances behind those cases but I don't wanna say Kryptonians show weaknesses toward their own powersets. Seems more believable for Prime to be able to do so. His ko'ed Earth 2 Supes/Wondergirl, sniped Zariel, sliced Gls in half, hurt Guardians, etc.There are no circumstances. Phantom Zone Zod pierced Superman's shoulder with hv towards the beginning of their fight. When Zod was attacking Earth, lil Chris Kent pierced his hand with hv. No context necessary, same with Prime doing it to Superman. Powergirl threatened to neuter Prime with hv an instant before and I believe that she could. Piercing hv doesn't impress me. Originally posted by Sundipped
You know, I really don't know why they potray him being fearful of the Flashes. Especially after his reaction/reflex speed has been shown to be on par with 3 simultaneously. I just don't get it. confused1 Because 3 of them BFR'ed him and defeated him in the future off-panel so obviously he can't keep up with them. And Bart Allen beat him up twice thereafter solo. Clearly, Prime's not on their level of speed. Which is why he's scared of them.

Cogito
Originally posted by red_turtle
the sodam yat fight? you basically see him giving prime trouble and making him bleed UNTIL that plot device kicked in and prime got the upper hand due to the plot device , Lol i find it ironic how you always clame if prime loses its due to plot device how ever in this fight prime won due to a plot device smile

SBP showed some good resistance to exploding forces as he showed to magic... how does it change the fact it counters your argument that prime owned anti monitor and that prime never does impressive in any fight ?

kyle without ION is not a high herald i think he is low- mid herald but thats an opinion thing, how ever for me ION kyle was the ordinary kyle as he just recieved his powers and didnt really know how to use them properly, and of course the plot device kicks in which didnt allow the fight to end properly... i think the writer wanted to say something by letting prime win due to a plot device

Lol so now ever force that defeated prime is suddenly a plot force? its like having superman fray his ass with the heat vision and then go and say "superman won because of the heat vision plot device" thats just rediculous, the speed force is something the flashes were able to create due to there power so that power defeated prime whats wrong with that? if thor owns somebody with a tornado its a plot device? get real, and SBP had his power suit almost in every one of those fights and he still gothis ass handed to him specially by the teen titans wink

it was stated that his power was almost fully restored and it was stated at the beginning of the arc, in the middle of that fight most chances his powers already were restored to normal levels

ok so his heat vision cuts superman with easy and the teen titans recent showing shows he cant even hurt a low herald with his heat vision so its 1 feat vs 1 feat whyshould we go by yours then?

heavy hitters? all i see is couple of heralds that it , and each of those heralds got a good lick on prime just like martian manhunter did, what about supergirl and superman owning him with there heat vision and make him cry for mommy? what about that? what about nobodies beating him down before the sun rose?

how about the flash family beating him down making him bleed and run away? 3 times!!!!!

and why wont you adress my point of conner giving him always a hard fight and hurting him?

i see that everytime it gets to prime people always make excuses like prime getting owned in the night its due to him being weaker but he got his power suit on so its full power prime, but when prime beats ION due to a plot device thats cool smokin'

and the recent teen titans fight is very valid but people choose just to ignore it like it didnt happen even with the fact that conner alone always gave prime serious trouble and that during all his fights he got licked by bunch of heralds all around so stop with this imaginary skyfather prime because he is just superman level
Look, every character with more than one appearance has low feats. If you want to focus only on that, and ignore his long established history of super-team busting, GL Corps pissing their pants, Guardians and Flashes sacrificing their lives to oust him history then you're few people are ever going to take you seriously.

I mean honestly, do we only accept a Darkseid who gets Batkicked and falls down stairs? Do we only look at Squirrel Girl when she got owned by a baby? A Wolverine that got kicked by a deer?

PS: typing all this on a phone sucks

red_turtle
Originally posted by Cogito
Look, every character with more than one appearance has low feats. If you want to focus only on that, and ignore his long established history of super-team busting, GL Corps pissing their pants, Guardians and Flashes sacrificing their lives to oust him history then you're few people are ever going to take you seriously.

I mean honestly, do we only accept a Darkseid who gets Batkicked and falls down stairs? Do we only look at Squirrel Girl when she got owned by a baby? A Wolverine that got kicked by a deer?

PS: typing all this on a phone sucks

the characters you mentioned got much more higher feats to prove those one are PIS, with SBP thats not the case because all his one on one fights actually prove my side of the story and shows us that his team wrecking feats are just canon fodder law (and even that didnt help him much because he still gotabused by the flash team, teentitans,superman+supergirl,black lanterns, no names low heralds act act)

so the only things all those you got is him giving the GLs a fight? Lol you get my point now? wink

Sundipped
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Don't see him no-sell the one weakness he still has either. Teen Titans basically had to take him down straight-up.

Not sure what you're trying to say here. Prime wrecked Red Star both times. I know the TT's had to team up to beat him.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Don't see any reason to act like Kon-El didn't do what he did... three times over. Given another opportunity, he'd probably do it again.

That's why I said Kon-El was an exception. There's no doubt in my mind that it most likely will happen again no matter who's writing.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
There are no circumstances. Phantom Zone Zod pierced Superman's shoulder with hv towards the beginning of their fight. When Zod was attacking Earth, lil Chris Kent pierced his hand with hv. No context necessary, same with Prime doing it to Superman. Powergirl threatened to neuter Prime with hv an instant before and I believe that she could. Piercing hv doesn't impress me.

You are aware of Primes incredible damage soak/invulnerability right. He laughed off a combined Guardian assault. The same kind of assault in which 1 beam was incinerating SC heralds.

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/8197/93425095hs9.th.jpg

PG is not piercing Prime with mere hv.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Because 3 of them BFR'ed him and defeated him in the future off-panel so obviously he can't keep up with them. And Bart Allen beat him up twice thereafter solo. Clearly, Prime's not on their level of speed. Which is why he's scared of them.

If you ask me, Johns went overboard with Prime being susceptible to Bart (later on). I can cope with Bart (w/speed force amp) punking Prime but TLO3W's incident was a bit too much.

In a scan I showed earlier he displayed combat speed on par with 3 Flashes + Jay himself stated here that he's too strong he was helpless.

http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/39/flash6oroboros030ig4ov2.th.jpg

no expression Doesn't make much sense to me.

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by Sundipped
Not sure what you're trying to say here. Prime wrecked Red Star both times. I know the TT's had to team up to beat him.

That's why I said Kon-El was an exception. There's no doubt in my mind that it most likely will happen again no matter who's writing. Just that while you think Prime got shafted in a major way in his Teen Titans fight with the lasso leading to his defeat, he also benefitted in a major way in the fight by inexplicably no-selling a red sun energy attack.

Maybe because he can. And Prime isn't as unbelievably more powerful as you think. Or Kon-El isn't as unbelievably weaker as you think. Kon-El is a teambuster. Originally posted by Sundipped
You are aware of Primes incredible damage soak/invulnerability right. He laughed off a combined Guardian assault. The same kind of assault in which 1 beam was incinerating SC heralds.

PG is not piercing Prime with mere hv. I'm aware the Guardians didn't do anything but incinerate no-name Lanterns (not the SC Heralds) and got those same attacks no-sold by Cyborg Superman. Superman Prime actually yelped and then got outwrestled by one of the jobber Guardians.

Apparently the story and Superman disagree. Otherwise Superman wouldn't have chastized her for threatening to cross a line. Originally posted by Sundipped
If you ask me, Johns went overboard with Prime being susceptible to Bart (later on). I can cope with Bart (w/speed force amp) punking Prime but TLO3W's incident was a bit too much.

In a scan I showed earlier he displayed combat speed on par with 3 Flashes + Jay himself stated here that he's too strong he was helpless.

no expression Doesn't make much sense to me. Bart being amped with the Speed Force to fight Prime is a myth. Bart exhausted the Speed Force he absorbed to just travel backwards in time. It was exhausted to such a point that he fainted and didn't wake up until after Conner fought and died. He had, at best, residual Speed Force powers that faded completely. This should be more obvious now since Bart actually has blitzed Prime four times solo. Once right before the Speedforce BFR, once when he returned in Infinite Crisis (the instance we're speaking of), once when he returned in Legion of 3 Worlds and, yet again, once more in Teen Titans. Bart doesn't need an imaginary Speedforce amp to battle Prime; we know this because he definitely didn't have an amp the three other times he did it solo. While Bart hasn't demonstrated the ability to overcome him on his own, he can take him on.

Countering Flashes in one panel and then spending the rest of your encounters getting pummeled, outright defeated, or fleeing speedsters doesn't prove that Prime's speed was on par with 3 Flashes. It proves that his countering them was likely a result of him surprising them with his relative speed at first.

And using an alternate Jay Garrick who could be as slow or slower than the real Jay Garrick means very little. I think you're overgeneralizing and aggrandizing Prime's levels which end up crashing hard against the various "harsh" realities that we're discussing. None of this should be surprising or quizical.

Sundipped
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Just that while you think Prime got shafted in a major way in his Teen Titans fight with the lasso leading to his defeat, he also benefitted in a major way in the fight by inexplicably no-selling a red sun energy attack.

RS's attacks noticably had more of an affect the first time but he still admitted RS had power after no-selling them the second time around. This is not really that big a deal considering he still owned him with little difficulty twice.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Maybe because he can. And Prime isn't as unbelievably more powerful as you think. Or Kon-El isn't as unbelievably weaker as you think. Kon-El is a teambuster.

Didn't say Kon-El was a weakling but no question Prime is superior.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I'm aware the Guardians didn't do anything but incinerate no-name Lanterns (not the SC Heralds) and got those same attacks no-sold by Cyborg Superman. Superman Prime actually yelped and then got outwrestled by one of the jobber Guardians.

He yelped initially then laughed it off. Prime didn't get outwrestled. The Guardian had already initiated the self destruct process emitting that bright green light which broke Primes focus.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Apparently the story and Superman disagree. Otherwise Superman wouldn't have chastized her for threatening to cross a line.

So just because Supes said don't do it means it would have been done? You know better than that ODG. Prime pierced Supes twice. We know for a fact he can do it. Easily. HV may pierce the average Kryptonian but Prime has proven he is above average.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Bart being amped with the Speed Force to fight Prime is a myth. Bart exhausted the Speed Force he absorbed to just travel backwards in time. It was exhausted to such a point that he fainted and didn't wake up until after Conner fought and died. He had, at best, residual Speed Force powers that faded completely. This should be more obvious now since Bart actually has blitzed Prime four times solo. Once right before the Speedforce BFR, once when he returned in Infinite Crisis (the instance we're speaking of), once when he returned in Legion of 3 Worlds and, yet again, once more in Teen Titans. Bart doesn't need an imaginary Speedforce amp to battle Prime; we know this because he definitely didn't have an amp the three other times he did it solo. While Bart hasn't demonstrated the ability to overcome him on his own, he can take him on.

Countering Flashes in one panel and then spending the rest of your encounters getting pummeled, outright defeated, or fleeing speedsters doesn't prove that Prime's speed was on par with 3 Flashes. It proves that his countering them was likely a result of him surprising them with his relative speed at first.

And using an alternate Jay Garrick who could be as slow or slower than the real Jay Garrick means very little. I think you're overgeneralizing and aggrandizing Prime's levels which end up crashing hard against the various "harsh" realities that we're discussing. None of this should be surprising or quizical.

Bart did say he passed out in Tokyo when he came back so I'll concede to him not having an amp.

Prime did suprise the Flashes with his speed and most likely it did catch them off guard but what it also shows is his ability to fight back and connect with punches of his own while/after punches are being thrown at him. He has the ability to fight back (even against 3) but as you stated, in the other instances he just succumbs to only Bart. I would like to see a strictly Prime vs. Bart fight 1 on 1 without Prime being so emo to see how it would turn out.

Not overgeneralizing Prime. His track record (save Flashes) speaks for itself.

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by Sundipped
RS's attacks noticably had more of an affect the first time but he still admitted RS had power after no-selling them the second time around. This is not really that big a deal considering he still owned him with little difficulty twice.

He yelped initially then laughed it off. Prime didn't get outwrestled. The Guardian had already initiated the self destruct process emitting that bright green light which broke Primes focus. First time cost him a portion of his armor.

Ok. Prime failed to wrestle out of the jobber Guardians' grip. Originally posted by Sundipped
So just because Supes said don't do it means it would have been done? You know better than that ODG. Prime pierced Supes twice. We know for a fact he can do it. Easily. HV may pierce the average Kryptonian but Prime has proven he is above average.

Not overgeneralizing Prime. His track record (save Flashes) speaks for itself. Phantom Zone Zod did it easily and lil Chris Kent did it easily too. And while you may doubt whether Power Girl could have done it to Prime, the story highly suggests she could have and would have, had it not been for Superman. I'm just pointing out facts that establish that piercing Superman with hv is neither unprecedented, nor especially impressive considering who else has done it or its equivalent.

Kon-El and Flashes' performances aren't exceptional to me. I see them as consistent.

h1a8
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I see the term context has little meaning to you when you post...

I see no secret context in moving planets around like toys, surviving universal destroying blasts, and shattering dimension with punches based off pure strength.

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