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Substitute Vader as killing his cousin. This is a one on one duel. Achilles equipment can't be cut by the lightsaber and no force powers for Vader. Who wins this sword/saber fight ?

Very nice, this is a tough one. I'd be inclined toward Achilles due to how freaking awesome he was as a non-Force user. But if Anakin is still allowed his Force-precognition, I think I'd go for him more times than not.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Very nice, this is a tough one. I'd be inclined toward Achilles due to how freaking awesome he was as a non-Force user. But if Anakin is still allowed his Force-precognition, I think I'd go for him more times than not. I think his precog is still fair here. Gimme a number out of 10 matchups you feel Vader wins here.

Anakin wins 6 or 7 times out of 10.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Anakin wins 6 or 7 times out of 10. Achilles wins.

Can Vader still use his force powers to amp himself?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Achilles wins.

Why am I not surprised you'd say that? uhuh

I value Vader's precognitive abilities enough to put him at 6/10. Though, if Achilles' shield is also saber-proof, then the favour swings back his way. Achilles is a master at using his shield defensively and offensively, while Vader's film feats feature sole proficiency in blade-only combat.


But yeah, give him the Force as a weapon and it'll be 10/10.

Precog is a major factor but a still think shield and tactical slashes will win this for Archilles.

Achilles drags Vader behind his chariot.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Why am I not surprised you'd say that? uhuh I have a habit of being right.Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I value Vader's precognitive abilities enough to put him at 6/10. Though, if Achilles' shield is also saber-proof, then the favour swings back his way. Achilles is a master at using his shield defensively and offensively, while Vader's film feats feature sole proficiency in blade-only combat.


But yeah, give him the Force as a weapon and it'll be 10/10. The shield along with his spear and sword are all saber proof.

Another poster used to do this long ago, boost the character he wanted to win will gimping the character he wanted to lose.

What's the point though, as any outcome can be dictated this way. I could have Mary Jane defeat Superman with the proper boosting/gimping combo.

Originally posted by Robtard
Another poster used to do this long ago, boost the character he wanted to win will gimping the character he wanted to lose.

What's the point though, as any outcome can be dictated this way. I could have Mary Jane defeat Superman with the proper boosting/gimping combo.

I think if MJ sat on his face she would win!

Originally posted by Robtard
Another poster used to do this long ago, boost the character he wanted to win will gimping the character he wanted to lose.

What's the point though, as any outcome can be dictated this way. I could have Mary Jane defeat Superman with the proper boosting/gimping combo. You're no fun.



I'm thinking Achilles with full shield and spear.

If Anakin has precognition, how does he lose this fight?

Originally posted by Robtard
Another poster used to do this long ago, boost the character he wanted to win will gimping the character he wanted to lose.

What's the point though, as any outcome can be dictated this way. I could have Mary Jane defeat Superman with the proper boosting/gimping combo. This thread is about seeing who is the better swordsman. Achilles is just a slightly superhuman/highly skilled warrior he had no way out getting past a force choke. Originally posted by Korto Vos
If Anakin has precognition, how does he lose this fight? You still have to be able to keep up and your body has to react accordingly. Precog isn't an autowin and we've seen Yoda hit before by an obvious attack. You know I will never quit referring to this.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Precog isn't an autowin and we've seen Yoda hit before by an obvious attack. You know I will never quit referring to this.

LOL, I'll just copy-paste all my posts from the Battlezone regarding that!



Seriously though, if Anakin is able to 'see' Achille's attacks before they happen, that's an overwhelming advantage.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
LOL, I'll just copy-paste all my posts from the Battlezone regarding that!



Seriously though, if Anakin is able to 'see' Achille's attacks before they happen, that's an overwhelming advantage. It is but look at how incredibly skilled Achilles was. hector was no slouch either and Achilles completely dominated him. Now I know jedi/sith are over any other warrior in troy but my point is Achilles was well beyond anyone in one on one battle. I think without the sabers destroying his weapons he wins. Anakin was definitely beatable.

"teh zone!!!111" Anakin, who trounced Dooku 1 vs. 1, is probably second to only Yoda and Sidious in the films.

Honestly, the way Vader lost against Obi-Wan was complete PIS.

Obi-Wan: "It's over Anakin, I have the high ground."

Like WTF? Was Anakin supposed to drop his lightsaber and dunk himself into the lava?

Seriously, this should have happened:

Anakin: *Jumps to the top of the hill* "It's over Obi-Wan, I have the high ground."

This is why Star Wars without the exposition of the novels and EU is kinda lame. All we have are perceived film feats and the various interpretations of them. EU Vader, Force or not, would trounce Achilles. But films alone, I'm not so impressed by Anakin's skills as to give him "Win, cuz precog." Against an ordinary man, sure, but against someone with the speed, reflexes, and overall skill as Brad Pitt, I'm not as confident. Throw in a saber resistant shield, something no Jedi in the films is ever seen going up against, and my money's on Achilles more often than not.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
This is why Star Wars without the exposition of the novels and EU is kinda lame. All we have are perceived film feats and the various interpretations of them. EU Vader, Force or not, would trounce Achilles. But films alone, I'm not so impressed by Anakin's skills as to give him "Win, cuz precog." Against an ordinary man, sure, but against someone with the speed, reflexes, and overall skill as Brad Pitt, I'm not as confident. Throw in a saber resistant shield, something no Jedi in the films is ever seen going up against, and my money's on Achilles more often than not.

This is very true. Nevertheless, we see Jedi being able to dodge futuristic blaster fire from all sides.

Besides, if we are under the notion that Anakin is just under par of Yoda, he *should* be winning this fight.

Should be. But Yoda's tiny size and erratic movements would be incredibly hard for any one to land a blow on. I wouldn't give Achilles many victories in that match-up. But as they've been displayed, Jedi precognitive powers aren't very impressive. We see plenty of them drop at Geonosis, plenty more Masters fall to clones, and Darth Retard watching in awe as Kenobi takes forever to get the jump on him. PIS removed, it would seem precognition comes and goes, often at random times. And at the most, precognition allows them a split second of warning to react appropriately. Frankly, I see Achilles, a man who's become what he is without the aid of mental powers, overwhelming that timeframe.

One thing about Anakin also. Anakin lost his first battle against Dooku and came back with help again. I am not saying Anakin wasn't better in round 2 but most don't live through a loss like he has. Anakin also at his most skilled went down against Obi whom he was a better fighter than.

Anakin is highly overrated and lost to opponents he was more skilled than. Achilles was >>than Hector and >>>>>than anyone else by far in Troy.

Originally posted by quanchi112
One thing about Anakin also. Anakin lost his first battle against Dooku and came back with help again. I am not saying Anakin wasn't better in round 2 but most don't live through a loss like he has. Anakin also at his most skilled went down against Obi whom he was a better fighter than. All of this makes so much more sense with the extended universe. S'why the PT can go suck a chode. In the party zone.

2 29 in the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyuknIqvofk

Korto, does something this awesome maybe change your mind ? I mean he does so easily while not even focusing or looking at the archer.

Originally posted by quanchi112
This thread is about seeing who is the better swordsman. Achilles is just a slightly superhuman/highly skilled warrior he had no way out getting past a force choke.
Fair enough.

The Vader/Kenobi fight in Ep3 is probably a faster pace of sword play and acrobatics than anything Achilles was shown doing.

The Force-Precog also gives Vader an edge. Achilles has his own type of battle-precog though, there's just less of it in his one film.

Originally posted by quanchi112
2 29 in the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyuknIqvofk

Korto, does something this awesome maybe change your mind ? I mean he does so easily while not even focusing or looking at the archer.

Anakin could have done all that imo.

In the second movie he jumps off a speeder and lands on a another one about a mile below him with perfect timing. That level of skill and awareness is something Achilles has never accomplished, nor could ever with his abilities.

Originally posted by Robtard
Fair enough.

The Vader/Kenobi fight in Ep3 is probably a faster pace of sword play and acrobatics than anything Achilles was shown doing.

The Force-Precog also gives Vader an edge. Achilles has his own type of battle-precog though, there's just less of it in his one film. Well I don't know about that. Anakin also lost that fight due to being mind blowingly stupid. Pre cog has failed so many times it won't be a huge edge if at all.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Anakin could have done all that imo.

In the second movie he jumps off a speeder and lands on a another one about a mile below him with perfect timing. That level of skill and awareness is something Achilles has never accomplished, nor could ever with his abilities. Well Anakin hasn't done it. The manner in which he stormed the beach with one boatload of troops and took it is far more impressive than Anakin storming the jedi temple with thousands of clone troopers.

Anakin is better at jumping I will give him that but if these two have a spear vs. saber tossing contest for ACCURACY I think Anakin would definitely be shown up.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Well I don't know about that. Anakin also lost that fight due to being mind blowingly stupid. Pre cog has failed so many times it won't be a huge edge if at all.


He lost due to rage and Kenobi being a total bad-ass himself; Achilles lost to a girly-man with a bow, so let's just focus on their best and not drag this into idiocy. Point stands, compare that fight to Achilles', it's a faster level of swordsmanship and acrobatics.

Precog has worked far more times than it failed. Count how many times Jedi have successfully blocked blaster-fire; it's more than the times they didn't and/or were surprised. So you can drop that baseless statement, it's not saving Achilles here.

Originally posted by Robtard
He lost due to rage and Kenobi being a total bad-ass himself; Achilles lost to a girly-man with a bow, so let's just focus on their best and not drag this into idiocy. Point stands, compare that fight to Achilles', it's a faster level of swordsmanship and acrobatics.

Precog has worked far more times than it failed. Count how many times Jedi have successfully blocked blaster-fire; it's more than the times they didn't and/or were surprised. So you can drop that baseless statement, it's not saving Achilles here. Kenobi isn't a badass. He lost to an inferior opponent in combat and showed in an extended fight he couldn't best him prior to. Achilles was spooning a woman at the time so in combat he's undefeated unlike Anakin who needs a rematch to best everyone of note.

In an up close fight with someone of Achilles precog isn't winning this. Achilles skill was knocking off arrows while not even focusing on them due to skill alone.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Kenobi isn't a badass. He lost to an inferior opponent in combat and showed in an extended fight he couldn't best him prior to. Achilles was spooning a woman at the time so in combat he's undefeated unlike Anakin who needs a rematch to best everyone of note.

In an up close fight with someone of Achilles precog isn't winning this. Achilles skill was knocking off arrows while not even focusing on them due to skill alone.

Kenobi is a bad-ass, your need to downplay is irrelevant. He fared extremely well against Darth Maul while only a padawan.

Vader's precog has far more showings than Achilles' couple, he's also the superior acrobat. Achilles' precog failed him in the end as well, nice of you to ignore this.

Is Achilles your next MVF man-crush? Cos your methods are telling.

Originally posted by Robtard
Kenobi is a bad-ass, your need to downplay is irrelevant. He fared extremely well against Darth Maul while only a padawan.

Vader's precog has far more showings than Achilles' couple, he's also the superior acrobat. Achilles' precog failed him in the end as well, nice of you to ignore this.

Is Achilles your next MVF man-crush? Cos your methods are telling. If by faring extremely well you mean being beaten and getting lucky while Maul taunted him then sure.

Vader's precog failed to prevent him from jumping to his doom against Obi. His precog was so off even Obi actually saying you can't do it you will lose had no effect. Precog is so overrated I can't believe it's an actual point.

Just because Achilles wins there's no reason to cry about it.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Well Anakin hasn't done it. The manner in which he stormed the beach with one boatload of troops and took it is far more impressive than Anakin storming the jedi temple with thousands of clone troopers.

Anakin is better at jumping I will give him that but if these two have a spear vs. saber tossing contest for ACCURACY I think Anakin would definitely be shown up.




He most certainly has done it. Anakin has repeatedly over the movies walked through battles batting blaster fire away by the dozens.

Accuracy?! He leapt off a speeder and landed on a moving speeder miles below him. That is insane accuracy. Furthermore, Anakin has such accuracy that he can angle his lightsaber blade just so that the blaster bolt bounces off it and hits what he wants it to. Again, far greater accuracy that Achilles. When he bounces arrows off his sword into other people let me know.


Originally posted by quanchi112
In an up close fight with someone of Achilles precog isn't winning this. Achilles skill was knocking off arrows while not even focusing on them due to skill alone.

hh3_PECr1VI

1.40 he replicates the feat you're hyping so much with contemptuous ease.

Originally posted by quanchi112
If by faring extremely well you mean being beaten and getting lucky while Maul taunted him then sure.

Vader's precog failed to prevent him from jumping to his doom against Obi. His precog was so off even Obi actually saying you can't do it you will lose had no effect. Precog is so overrated I can't believe it's an actual point.

Just because Achilles wins there's no reason to cry about it.

Considering he was a Padawan, he fare extremely well.

Yet again, we see Force Battle-Precog work more time than it failed. So your statement is just further downplaying.

Vader/Kenobi fight in EP3 show he's better than Achilles at swordsmanship, hes clearly the better acrobat and he has blocked many-multiples of blaster-fire rounds compared to Achilles blocking a few arrows.. All you can do is downplay the character you want to see lose.

Originally posted by Nephthys


He most certainly has done it. Anakin has repeatedly over the movies walked through battles batting blaster fire away by the dozens.

Accuracy?! He leapt off a speeder and landed on a moving speeder miles below him. That is insane accuracy. Furthermore, Anakin has such accuracy that he can angle his lightsaber blade just so that the blaster bolt bounces off it and hits what he wants it to. Again, far greater accuracy that Achilles. When he bounces arrows off his sword into other people let me know.




hh3_PECr1VI

1.40 he replicates the feat you're hyping so much with contemptuous ease. Achilles stormed the beach with just one boatload of men. He was up against hundreds and the environment was much more wide open than one room with around 20 men/droids.

Yes, his precog can help with jumping off a speeder.....that isn't saving him in a one on one duel here. Achilles makes great fighters look like average men unlike Anakin who has been beaten twice.

Arrows also seem to move faster than blaster fire.

Originally posted by Robtard
Considering he was a Padawan, he fare extremely well.

Yet again, we see Force Battle-Precog work more time than it failed. So your statement is just further downplaying.

Vader/Kenobi fight in EP3 show he's better than Achilles at swordsmanship, hes clearly the better acrobat and he has blocked many-multiples of blaster-fire rounds compared to Achilles blocking a few arrows.. All you can do is downplay the character you want to see lose. He lost. He didn't last that long and went down to a mere force push because he was rob raging all over the place.

It fails in battles with an opponent with a saber. It failed him against Dooku and Obi. It fails him here. I am consistent with the movies you aren't.

It doesn't prove he's better than Achilles by any stretch of the imagination. Anakin for all his jump flips it got him nowhere against an inferior opponent. Achilles is his superior and toyed with Hector. The closest the second greatest swordsman got was grazing his chest plate.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Achilles stormed the beach with just one boatload of men. He was up against hundreds and the environment was much more wide open than one room with around 20 men/droids.

Yes, his precog can help with jumping off a speeder.....that isn't saving him in a one on one duel here. Achilles makes great fighters look like average men unlike Anakin who has been beaten twice.

Arrows also seem to move faster than blaster fire.


Geonosis was bigger and every single enemy had blaster rifles, as opposed to the, what 5 or 6 archers on the beach. Furthermore Anakin fought extensively in the Clone Wars and was in fact the War-Hero of the whole thing. In the Clone Wars movie (which was apparantly so unpopular youtube had limited videos of it) he fights a ****ton of droids and pretty much casually owns the lot of them. And lets not forget the Hanger scene from ROTS when he and Obi-Wan defeat about 50 droids again wih ease.

Yes it is. Anakin's incredible precog and awareness can only be a big advantage in the fight. Its far above the 'skill' you claim will give Achilles the win. Anakin has better feats period and will defeat Achilles. Also Achilles only does fight average men. Anakin fights superhumans. Do the math.

Well they are not. It just seems that way because blaster bolts are very bright.


Also Anakin's robot-hand is much stronger than Achilles is. It was able to support the wieght of 3 grown men without much difficulty. Anakin is definately stronger than Achilles.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Geonosis was bigger and every single enemy had blaster rifles, as opposed to the, what 5 or 6 archers on the beach. Furthermore Anakin fought extensively in the Clone Wars and was in fact the War-Hero of the whole thing. In the Clone Wars movie (which was apparantly so unpopular youtube had limited videos of it) he fights a ****ton of droids and pretty much casually owns the lot of them. And lets not forget the Hanger scene from ROTS when he and Obi-Wan defeat about 50 droids again wih ease.

Yes it is. Anakin's incredible precog and awareness can only be a big advantage in the fight. Its far above the 'skill' you claim will give Achilles the win. Anakin has better feats period and will defeat Achilles. Also Achilles only does fight average men. Anakin fights superhumans. Do the math.

Well they are not. It just seems that way because blaster bolts are very bright.


Also Anakin's robot-hand is much stronger than Achilles is. It was able to support the wieght of 3 grown men without much difficulty. Anakin is definately stronger than Achilles. The droids are very slow to react and would easily be owned once you close the gap. Human opponents attacks would be harder to anticipate due to the stupidity of the droids. They line up and make it easy to be owned.

His precog failed him twice in his first Dooku fight and even against an inferior please don't jump Anakin you can't win Obi. Being told you can't win and doing so anyways shows precog isn't as impressive as you previously thought.

Anakin isn't tossing that spear as far as Achilles is. His hand really didn't help him against Obi either.

Originally posted by quanchi112
The droids are very slow to react and would easily be owned once you close the gap. Human opponents attacks would be harder to anticipate due to the stupidity of the droids. They line up and make it easy to be owned.

His precog failed him twice in his first Dooku fight and even against an inferior please don't jump Anakin you can't win Obi. Being told you can't win and doing so anyways shows precog isn't as impressive as you previously thought.

Anakin isn't tossing that spear as far as Achilles is. His hand really didn't help him against Obi either.

What and those soldiers on the beach weren't? They practically ran on to his sword. And no actually its the other way around since the droids are attacking from a distance and because Anakin was sorrounded on all sides by them. Not the mention the Super Battledroids which fire extremely quickly and powerfully.

His precog failed against Dooku is something you hold against him? Dooku was one of the most skilled fighters in the Jedi Order and was an even more powerful Sith Lord. The man was fighting mother ****ing Yoda equally. And yet Anakin defeated him in both ROTS and the Clone Wars movie. And Obi-Wan was another Jedi, so again, a superhuman opponent.

Indeed. Anakin would toss it much farther. Obi-Wan was able to block the blows of Grievous, a cyborg who punched a dent in a Star Ship hull. Obi-Wan is also much stronger than Achilles. And yeah it did, or did you miss the part where Anakin was manhandling Obi-Wan in CQC.

Originally posted by Nephthys
What and those soldiers on the beach weren't? They practically ran on to his sword. And no actually its the other way around since the droids are attacking from a distance and because Anakin was sorrounded on all sides by them. Not the mention the Super Battledroids which fire extremely quickly and powerfully.

His precog failed against Dooku is something you hold against him? Dooku was one of the most skilled fighters in the Jedi Order and was an even more powerful Sith Lord. The man was fighting mother ****ing Yoda equally. And yet Anakin defeated him in both ROTS and the Clone Wars movie. And Obi-Wan was another Jedi, so again, a superhuman opponent.

Indeed. Anakin would toss it much farther. Obi-Wan was able to block the blows of Grievous, a cyborg who punched a dent in a Star Ship hull. Obi-Wan is also much stronger than Achilles. And yeah it did, or did you miss the part where Anakin was manhandling Obi-Wan in CQC. No, they didn't he not only was fighting against multiple foes directly in front of him but he casually deflected arrows while doing so. In the clip you provided Anakin isn't being tested by anyone else and blocks the blaster fire. The lost of the room was filled by bureaucrats not elite fighters. It'd be me posting a video of Achilles tearing through a room of scared politicians and acting like you should be wowed.

I take into consideration the times against skilled fighters it fails. It fails him all the time and against Dooku it failed him badly twice in one fight. He stupidly rushed right in yet you claim precog is awesome ? LOL. One force blast is something precog should clue you in on.

I don't see Anakin tossing it anywhere near the distance Achilles has been shown able to do.

Grievous was stronger than Anakin so blocking a blow doesn't prove he's uber strong. Obi also blocked his attacks and survived his flesh being hit by Grievous.


Anakin wasn't manhandling him he tried choking him but was kicked off pretty quickly. It was a back and forth battle where Obi kicked him to the ground as well. Neither seemed that strong.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He lost. He didn't last that long and went down to a mere force push because he was rob raging all over the place.

It fails in battles with an opponent with a saber. It failed him against Dooku and Obi. It fails him here. I am consistent with the movies you aren't.

It doesn't prove he's better than Achilles by any stretch of the imagination. Anakin for all his jump flips it got him nowhere against an inferior opponent. Achilles is his superior and toyed with Hector. The closest the second greatest swordsman got was grazing his chest plate.

Technically he won, as he lived and Maul died. So you're wrong again and you need to watch the film.

You mean to another opponent with Force Battle-Precog, well sure, it's a battle of like-powers. Considering the battle of Genosis alone and the hundreds, if not thousands of shots the Jedi faced, you're consistent with only thing, your ability to downplay and at the fool. Good job.

Showing Vader being a faster swordsman and acrobat does prove exactly that. You have no argument, only downplaying the one you want to see lose.

Originally posted by Robtard
Technically he won, as he lived and Maul died. So you're wrong again and you need to watch the film.

You mean to another opponent with Force Battle-Precog, well sure, it's a battle of like-powers. Considering the battle of Genosis alone and the hundreds, if not thousands of shots the Jedi faced, you're consistent with only thing, your ability to downplay and at the fool. Good job.

Showing Vader being a faster swordsman and acrobat does prove exactly that. You have no argument, only downplaying the one you want to see lose. Yes, he McClaned his way through the fight. He lost and then found a way to win as the enemy gloated.

Against skilled opponents it fails. It failed him twice against Dooku and once against Obi an inferior opponent. All stated in the film as well. Achilles isn't shooting blaster fire against him either and unlike Achilles who took over the beach with a much smaller force Anakin was doomed until the reinforcements of Yoda showed up.

He isn't faster or is he more effective. Being effective is the key word. Losing isn't really leaving the Achilles side in awe.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, he McClaned his way through the fight. He lost and then found a way to win as the enemy gloated.

Against skilled opponents it fails. It failed him twice against Dooku and once against Obi an inferior opponent. All stated in the film as well. Achilles isn't shooting blaster fire against him either and unlike Achilles who took over the beach with a much smaller force Anakin was doomed until the reinforcements of Yoda showed up.

He isn't faster or is he more effective. Being effective is the key word. Losing isn't really leaving the Achilles side in awe.

LoL, so you make a stupid statement, it's shown to be wrong and you still try to downplay. Typical.

Probably because Dooku at the time was a far superior Force-user. Point stills no matter how you down-play, Force Battle-Precog works many, many, many more times than it fails and Achilles loses here because of it, among other factors.

Yet the battle with Kenobi on Mustafar proves Vader is both faster and far more agile. Accept it and just deal with your new Achilles fanboyism.

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, they didn't

They did.

Originally posted by quanchi112
he not only was fighting against multiple foes directly in front of him but he casually deflected arrows while doing so.

No he didn't.

Originally posted by quanchi112
In the clip you provided Anakin isn't being tested by anyone else and blocks the blaster fire.

So, its still more impressive than anything Achilles has done now that your arrow-blocking feat has been revealed to be a lie.

Originally posted by quanchi112
The lost of the room was filled by bureaucrats not elite fighters. It'd be me posting a video of Achilles tearing through a room of scared politicians and acting like you should be wowed.

He blocked a shot to his back without looking at it and with such skill that he managed to hit the droid with the reflected shot. You should be wowed.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I take into consideration the times against skilled fighters it fails. It fails him all the time and against Dooku it failed him badly twice in one fight. He stupidly rushed right in yet you claim precog is awesome ? LOL. One force blast is something precog should clue you in on.

Jesus Christ how many times do I have to point out that Dooku and Obi-Wan were also Force users and also had precognition and Force powers? Will 50 be enough for you?

Originally posted by quanchi112
I don't see Anakin tossing it anywhere near the distance Achilles has been shown able to do.

Yes he could.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Grievous was stronger than Anakin so blocking a blow doesn't prove he's uber strong. Obi also blocked his attacks and survived his flesh being hit by Grievous.

What? I have no idea what you're trying to prove here. You pretty much just repeated my points.


Originally posted by quanchi112
Anakin wasn't manhandling him he tried choking him but was kicked off pretty quickly. It was a back and forth battle where Obi kicked him to the ground as well. Neither seemed that strong.


And yet they have feats proving that they have some degree of superstrength.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Against skilled opponents it fails.


As much as I hate through tear to another of your so called "arguments". You are wrong.. If precognition would fail against skilled opponents, the first swing in a lightsaber duel would also be the last. Jedi and Sith can move far faster than ordinary human beings, demonstrated at the beginning of "The Phantom Menace".

Here, we are already at the point, at which Achilles get cut down by a lightsaber before he does even realize that the fight has started. The same thing would happen to Jedi and Sith, whenever they engage in a lightsaber duel, if it wasn't for their precognition.

In fact, movie canon demonstrates that precognition is efficient enough, to allow Yoda to deflect about 40 blaster bolts from 8 different directions in about 4 seconds, at the scene in "Revenge of the Sith" in which the Jedi Master and Obi-Wan fight Clone Troopers in front of the Jedi Temple. Seriously: Can Achilles even come up with anything close to that amount of attacks, not even mentioning Grievous wielding four seperate blades, which movements Kenobi was apparently able to predict and counter? I don't think so.



And explained above. Those opponents can place in so many possible attacks, that, at a certain point, precognition may be "overloaded". The point is, that Achilles can't even come close to that, and hence doesn't stand a chance against Anakin.



The ration of droids and Jedi in the arena was 1000 to 1. If you show me 20.000 or 30.000 enemies, awaiting Achilles at the beach, I will gladly accept this "feat" as compareable to the Battle of Geonosis. Until then, you're argument is senseless and you may want to get some knowledge about Star Wars before discussing related topics.



According to movie canon, Anakin could run circles around Achilles and cut him down, before his opponents does even notice he is in a fight. Not to mention the swings Anakin would deal out, powered by his entire mechanical arm which had enough strength to hold the weight of himself, Kenobi and Palpatine combined. Wonder if Achilles can even parry that, without suffering from broken bones....

Originally posted by Robtard
LoL, so you make a stupid statement, it's shown to be wrong and you still try to downplay. Typical.

Probably because Dooku at the time was a far superior Force-user. Point stills no matter how you down-play, Force Battle-Precog works many, many, many more times than it fails and Achilles loses here because of it, among other factors.

Yet the battle with Kenobi on Mustafar proves Vader is both faster and far more agile. Accept it and just deal with your new Achilles fanboyism. It didn't have anything to do with overall skill Anakin raged his way into the fight and didn't think whereas Obi knew that was a stupid thing to do. Precog didn't help Anakin out with force lightning which is easy to block.

It works against fodder, sure but against skilled opponents Achilles could tell him not to try something and Anakin would anyways and lose. Guy is an idiot.

No, it doesn't. Achilles is moving out of the way of Hector's attacks with ease. He yells at him to get up. Achilles toyed with the best fighter out of the entire movie. He also spared him early on because he was a glory hound and wanted the whole world to see. Vader has no honor and his greatest feats involve winning rematches.

Precog is vague and is less impressive than Achilles own reflexes and skill level.

Originally posted by Nephthys
They did.
His skill level defeated them easily. You attempting to downplay Achilles will get you nowhere.

Wrong.


Actually casually deflecting a spear is an even better showing. It shows how strong he is while taking on fighters. He also easily blocks an arrow while fighting other men as well.


Anakin didn't have anyone else in his face like Achilles did. Achilles was taking down an army unlike Anakin who slaughtered politicians and droids. LOL.

That doesn't change the fact precog should make you aware of an obvious attack while skill level determines the victor. Anakin got hit by obvious attack after obvious attack showing precog to be vague and quite worthless.

Without proof it's just a claim.

Wrong.


Casually parrying a spear is super strength not choking Obi like a woman.

Originally posted by quanchi112
It didn't have anything to do with overall skill Anakin raged his way into the fight and didn't think whereas Obi knew that was a stupid thing to do. Precog didn't help Anakin out with force lightning which is easy to block.

It works against fodder, sure but against skilled opponents Achilles could tell him not to try something and Anakin would anyways and lose. Guy is an idiot.

No, it doesn't. Achilles is moving out of the way of Hector's attacks with ease. He yells at him to get up. Achilles toyed with the best fighter out of the entire movie. He also spared him early on because he was a glory hound and wanted the whole world to see. Vader has no honor and his greatest feats involve winning rematches.

Precog is vague and is less impressive than Achilles own reflexes and skill level.

Ah, nice, ignore your previous points were retarded and deftly try to switch to another fight/scene. You need to watch EP3 too then, as you have no idea what you're talking about, Vader and Kenobi where exchanging blows in the beginning, faster than Achilles was shown doing.

LoL, it also clearly works against other Jedi/Sith, as they're both employing Battle-Precog during their duels. Works more often than fails, just accept it and deal. Basic Star Wars knowledge.

Hector isn't anywhere close to what Vader would be bringing. Your argument boils down to "Achilles defeated far lessor opponents than Vader, so he wins here", which is retarded.

Precog is not "vague", if you bothered to watch EP1 Qui-Gon Jin clearly explains it. You're fanboying Achilles again.

Originally posted by Borbarad
As much as I hate through tear to another of your so called "arguments". You are wrong.. If precognition would fail against skilled opponents, the first swing in a lightsaber duel would also be the last. Jedi and Sith can move far faster than ordinary human beings, demonstrated at the beginning of "The Phantom Menace". We see Palpatine slowly raise his hand and blast Yoda before he can block and redirect the force lightning so you're wrong. If precog was so on all the time they'd never be caught off guard by something so obvious to a mere human such as myself. Also think about how stupid Anakin has been when Dooku and Obi have defeated him. Obi even told him what would happen. Oh precog. It's funny.
The jedi and sith have incredible skill and reflexes just like Achilles just not as much so. That means they don't get cut down by every attack. Achilles never goes down to an opponent he is facing. He crushes everyone in his path unlike Anakin, the McClane of the Star Wars universe.

Yoda can deflect fodder blasts but by the same token get hit by a slow moving old hand of force blast. Achilles can parry heavy spears while easily dominating fodder so in the end this is more impressive than just deflecting blaster fire which doesn't appear to be very fast to begin with.

Achilles would disarm Grievous very quickly as well. Grievous wasn't very formidable at all.

If Obi's attack which he told him is enough to best him why can't Achilles ? Seriously, be serious. K.




Proof ? Achilles is a character who stormed the beach against incredible odds and won rather easily. Anakin is a guy who knew he couldn't win despite having numerous jedi against fodder. Dooku wasn't involved with the fighting yet the movie made it very clear they had no chance.
What movie canon ? Achilles parries spears while fighting which is a strength feat directly related to combat while you want to compare lifting feats. LOL.

It's like saying Ronnie Coleman the bodybuilder can beat Mike Tyson based on his superior strength. It's funny.

Originally posted by Robtard
Ah, nice, ignore your previous points were retarded and deftly try to switch to another fight/scene. You need to watch EP3 too then, as you have no idea what you're talking about, Vader and Kenobi where exchanging blows in the beginning, faster than Achilles was shown doing.

LoL, it also clearly works against other Jedi/Sith, as they're both employing Battle-Precog during their duels. Basic Star Wars knowledge.

Hector isn't anywhere close to what Vader would be bringing. Your argument boils down to "Achilles defeated far lessor opponents than Vader, so he wins here", which is retarded.

Precog is not "vague", if you bothered to watch EP1 Qui-Gon Jin clearly explains it. You're fanboying Achilles again. I acknowledged he parried spears which is actually more impressive than arrows, honestly. I also acknowledged he easily blocked an arrow with his shield while engaging other men.

They parried each other blows and the fight slowed down dramatically after that. We also see slow kicks knock Anakin on his ass. See unlike Anakin Achilles doesn't have anyone remotely on his level.

Failing to realize jumping at your opponent with precog will lose you the battle along with your enemy saying it makes him stupid. So which is it ? Why didn't precog keep him from being incredibly stupid and arrogant ?

Hector is incredibly skilled and isn't as far away from vader as you'd like to think. If Hector actually posed a challenge maybe you'd have something but he was toyed with by Achilles.

I've given examples of it failing so acting like it's this 100 percent we always know what's happening next is a flat out lie.

Game. Set. Match.

Originally posted by quanchi112
We see Palpatine slowly raise his hand and blast Yoda before he can block and redirect the force lightning so you're wrong. If precog was so on all the time they'd never be caught off guard by something so obvious to a mere human such as myself. Also think about how stupid Anakin has been when Dooku and Obi have defeated him. Obi even told him what would happen. Oh precog. It's funny.


And now we think a little bit about suspension of disbelief and it's application in debates regarding fictional material. We know how fast the Jedi can move (TPM). We know the limits of the precognition of Kenobi and Yoda (RotS). Ignoring both, will generate false results. You do ignore them, in lieu to establish your favorised characters as victor in this fight.

There is no way for Achilles to keep up with Anakin's speed. There is no way for Achilles to overload Anakin's precognition. Therefore, Achilles gets killed. End of story.



Has any opponent attacked Achilles with the equivalent of ten blaster bolts per second or the speed of Grievous? No. Can Achilles put the equivalent of those attacks out? No. So he has no way to overcome a Jedi's defense and likewise no way to counter their offense. We can easily sum that up with the statement: Achilles will be killed.



Math for idiots: 40 blaster bolts are more than two spears. Seriously.



Ignoring the mental state of Anakin in the situation is almost too funny. It was sheer idiocy on Anakin's side to try the move he tried, because he was overconfident and half mad. This is not the condition in which he will face Achilles. And Achilles can't defeat him, because he wouldn't even remotely be capable of replicating Kenobi's speed.



I'd love to read some coherent argument from you. Would you mind typing one down? I must have missed the point in the AotC movie, where RotS Anakin showed up, in order to storm a place, inhabited by maybe 2 or 3 times the troops that he, himself, was bringing to the battle. Which is exactly what Achilles did. Seriously. Count the Troy soldiers on the beach, instead of assuming they had some innumerable army stationed there. It's almost too funny.



According to the movie canon, that shows Jedi are capable of moving so fast, that humans can only perceive them as blurs. According to the movie canon, that shows them deflecting several dozen attacks in their direction. Achilles is totally screwed.

Originally posted by Borbarad
And now we think a little bit about suspension of disbelief and it's application in debates regarding fictional material. We know how fast the Jedi can move (TPM). We know the limits of the precognition of Kenobi and Yoda (RotS). Ignoring both, will generate false results. You do ignore them, in lieu to establish your favorised characters as victor in this fight. I am citing examples of precog failing. You failing to acknowledge this is why I don't take it easy on you.
Anakin isn't faster than Achilles and doesn't possess anywhere near the skill of Achilles. Overloading it ? Obi told him not to do something and he did so anyways. That's not overloading it yet he was defeated all the same. Dooku's force lightning didn't overload it either. Anakin is stupid in combat.

For one blaster fire doesn't seem all that fast. Achilles storming the beach is far more impressive than either of these instances. Achilles can decimate his foes while being attacked by ranged weapons and do so with ease. So far a force lightning blast beat him and Anakin used an attack Obi even told him would fail. LOL.


Since when was he attacked by 40 blaster bolts at the same time ? You are just making things up now.


Here's you again trying to say nuh uh this doesn't count. Anakin had a headache and needed to poop so he wasn't at his best. Spare me the fanboy routine I cite actual evidence while you throw adjectives and baseless claims around. Achilles is far more skilled and was easily dodging Hector's attacks.


You threw an exaggerated number and ignored the fact he had some of the greatest jedi present and on his side against the fodder.

We've seen humans kill them easily and them fail to block blaster fire after order 66 was ordered. Watch the movies, guy. That's how they wipe out the entire jedi order. Most of them don't even see it coming yet precog.

Originally posted by quanchi112
His skill level defeated them easily. You attempting to downplay Achilles will get you nowhere.

That doesn't disprove the fact that they all but ran onto his sword. You attempting to downplay the droids will only result in me doing the same to the Trojan soldiers.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Wrong.

Wrong? Everyone agrees that he blocked spears, not arrows. That you can't see it desn't make me wrong, quite the opposite.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Actually casually deflecting a spear is an even better showing. It shows how strong he is while taking on fighters.

No it doesn't.

Humans can deflect spears. How the hell do you think we've fought against them in the 2 million years we've been fighting with them. Plus, spears move a hell of a lot slower than arrows, so no, it isn't even better. I mean by your logic:

SbzihjSUeLs

Oh look, Anakin and Obi-Wan easily deflecting spears (or equivilent).

Originally posted by quanchi112
He also easily blocks an arrow while fighting other men as well.

When? Show me please.


Originally posted by quanchi112
Anakin didn't have anyone else in his face like Achilles did. Achilles was taking down an army unlike Anakin who slaughtered politicians and droids. LOL.

Considering Achilles didn't even deflect any arrows I'm still saying Anakins feat is >>>> his.

Originally posted by quanchi112
That doesn't change the fact precog should make you aware of an obvious attack while skill level determines the victor. Anakin got hit by obvious attack after obvious attack showing precog to be vague and quite worthless.

Borbarad answered this superbly.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Without proof it's just a claim.

He's displayed the strngth to be able to do it.


Originally posted by quanchi112
Wrong.

No, you did just repeat my point. If perhaps you could repeat what you said in a clearer manner we could continue.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Casually parrying a spear is super strength not choking Obi like a woman.

Parrying a spear is not superstrength.

I could parry a freaking spear and I'm tiny.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I acknowledged he parried spears which is actually more impressive than arrows, honestly. I also acknowledged he easily blocked an arrow with his shield while engaging other men.

They parried each other blows and the fight slowed down dramatically after that. We also see slow kicks knock Anakin on his ass. See unlike Anakin Achilles doesn't have anyone remotely on his level.

Failing to realize jumping at your opponent with precog will lose you the battle along with your enemy saying it makes him stupid. So which is it ? Why didn't precog keep him from being incredibly stupid and arrogant ?

Hector is incredibly skilled and isn't as far away from vader as you'd like to think. If Hector actually posed a challenge maybe you'd have something but he was toyed with by Achilles.

I've given examples of it failing so acting like it's this 100 percent we always know what's happening next is a flat out lie.

Game. Set. Match.


Non stop with the shifting tactics, clown. If Achilles had knocked arrows out of the air, that actually would be more impressive than blocking a couple of spear-lunges. Let me guess, you'll next start ranting how Achilles blocked sword-blows too and how that's somehow super-human? The shield to the back block was the most impressive thing he did, but it pales in comparison with Vader blocking shitloads of blaster-fire.

Downplaying Vader again. Expected.

Vader jumped because he was a arrogant *******. That isn't saving Achilles here, the fight will be over in seconds; Vader isn't raging and losing his cool.

LoL, now Hector and Vader are similar. Further downplaying.

Precog isn't infallible; no one has said that it was, so nice little STRAWMAN. Preog does work more times than it fails and most importantly in this fight, Achilles isn't dancing his way past Vader's Battle-Precog.

Downplaying and making up shit while arbitrarily calling a win, nothing new from you.

Originally posted by Nephthys
That doesn't disprove the fact that they all but ran onto his sword. You attempting to downplay the droids will only result in me doing the same to the Trojan soldiers.
He killed them due to his skill level not that they were schlubs. He made even the most skilled opponents come off as schlubs unlike Anakin.

I said he did probably just block spears. Yes, it is since with the velocity and the weight of it makes this more impressive.


Combat and the ease and accuracy o fspears being tossed in this movie was definitely superhuman. In real life we can't even the best of us toss spears this distance or with the sheer force. That yoube video shows two jedi teaming up against one opponent whereas Achilles is fighting multiple opponents while casually parrying spears and blocking arrows.



When? Show me please. It's what he uses the shield to block.



You really are comparing killing politicians and droids to his beach feats ? Honestly.

Borb is another star wars apologist. I don't think so.



I honestly can't remember what I said.

Throwing a spear hundreds of yards and casually deflecting spears while in combat are examples of super strength.

Originally posted by quanchi112


Throwing a spear hundreds of yards and casually deflecting spears while in combat are examples of super strength.

Hundreds of feet, as Hector's horsemen were already upon the temple. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2P6xhGNuwU

Blocking a spear thrush doesn't take super-strength, stop being a moron, it's past being cute.

Originally posted by Robtard
Non stop with the shifting tactics, clown. If Achilles had knocked arrows out of the air, that actually would be more impressive than blocking a couple of spear-lunges. Let me guess, you'll next start ranting how Achilles blocked sword-blows too and how that's somehow super-human? The shield to the back block was the most impressive thing he did, but it pales in comparison with Vader blocking shitloads of blaster-fire.

Downplaying Vader again. Expected.

Vader jumped because he was a arrogant *******. That isn't saving Achilles here, the fight will be over in seconds; Vader isn't raging and losing his cool.

LoL, now Hector and Vader are similar. Further downplaying.

Precog isn't infallible; no one has said that it was, so nice little STRAWMAN. Preog does work more times than it fails and most importantly in this fight, Achilles isn't dancing his way past Vader's Battle-Precog.

Downplaying and making up shit while arbitrarily calling a win, nothing new from you. You still don't get it. The blocking of it wasn't the most impressive part the most impressive part was casually doing so while fighting other warriors.

Blocking blaster fire with your complete concentration isn't as impressive.

I am merely citing evidence.

So Vader brings his arrogance here as well. You can't conveniently leave out his characteristics.

Vader is greater just not to the extent you are implying.

It isn't useless but my examples of it being flat out not there. Someone of Achilles skill level this is coming down to skill.

Originally posted by Robtard
Hundreds of feet, as Hector's horsemen were already upon the temple. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2P6xhGNuwU

Blocking a spear thrush doesn't take super-strength, stop being a moron, it's past being cute. This coupled with his spear throwing feats proves he's superhuman. Quit downplaying.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You still don't get it. The blocking of it wasn't the most impressive part the most impressive part was casually doing so while fighting other warriors.

Blocking blaster fire with your complete concentration isn't as impressive.

I am merely citing evidence.

So Vader brings his arrogance here as well. You can't conveniently leave out his characteristics.

Vader is greater just not to the extent you are implying.

It isn't useless but my examples of it being flat out not there. Someone of Achilles skill level this is coming down to skill.

So now that your "he blocked spears" fell flat, you're shifting to the shield, which I pointed out was the one impressive thing. Clown.

It is when it's coming from hundreds of foes and from many angles at once. battle of Genosis, Jedi where seen successfully doing this more times than failing.

No, you're being a clown, downplaying, making shit up and then shifting, it's all you have.

If you didn't pick up on it in the film, Achilles bleeds arrogance, he's completely full of himself. But that's neither here nor there. Achilles is clearly outmatched.

Achilles has skill, he's not getting pasted and/or everwhelming Vader's Battle-Precog though.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He killed them due to his skill level not that they were schlubs. He made even the most skilled opponents come off as schlubs unlike Anakin.

O RLY?

Yt4G6RPrO64

At 0.43 you can see Anakin fighting off the lightsaber instructor of the Jedi Order (basically one of the most skilled Jedi with a lightsaber) while throttling another Jedi.

What were you talking about Anakin not making skilled opponents look like schlubs?


Originally posted by quanchi112
I said he did probably just block spears.

So..... you admit that you were wrong? Gooooooooood.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, it is since with the velocity and the weight of it makes this more impressive.

No it doesn't. You've been told this multiple times already Quan, deflecting a spear is not superhuman.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Combat and the ease and accuracy o fspears being tossed in this movie was definitely superhuman. In real life we can't even the best of us toss spears this distance or with the sheer force.

Meh, its nothing Anakin couldn't do with the feats that we've provided. His strength and accuracy is beyond Achilles'. Heres another one I forgot.

r4D7Roe-llM&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PL9BB1939002E968E7

At 4.48 Anakin leaps onto Padmes bed and cuts two freaking caterpillers in half that are on top of her without touching her with his blade. Could Achilles have done something that precise and accurate that quickly? I think not.

Originally posted by quanchi112
That yoube video shows two jedi teaming up against one opponent whereas Achilles is fighting multiple opponents while casually parrying spears and blocking arrows.

Teaming up? Obi-Wan blocks both Magnaguards at the same time at the start of the fight. Thats much more impressive that deflecting a bloody spear.


Originally posted by quanchi112
You really are comparing killing politicians and droids to his beach feats ? Honestly.

We're not talking about him killing politicians. We're talkinh about him blocking a blaster shot completely blind with ease. Something that Achilles has never done.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Borb is another star wars apologist. I don't think so.

Borb is probably the smartest person I know. So I do think so.


Originally posted by quanchi112
Throwing a spear hundreds of yards and casually deflecting spears while in combat are examples of super strength.

The spear thing is not an example of superstrength. The spear toss I'll give you. But Anakins own feats of superstrength stand as well. So its not like Achilles is going to overpower him.

Originally posted by quanchi112
This coupled with his spear throwing feats proves he's superhuman. Quit downplaying.

What you're saying doesn't equate to super-strength or anything super-human. Just a skilled fighter. Stop being a clown.

I'm still pulling for Achilles based solely on visuals, but there is absolutely no way he's superhuman. Very strong, very skilled, very fast. But not superhuman. He's just the pinnacle of the human condition, but there's nothing super about him.



Except his hair, which flows in waves of divinity.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I'm still pulling for Achilles based solely on visuals, but there is absolutely no way he's superhuman. Very strong, very skilled, very fast. But not superhuman. He's just the pinnacle of the human condition, but there's nothing super about him.

Except his hair, which flows in waves of divinity.

So you're saying Achilles wins because Brad Pitt is way hotter than Hayden Christensen. At least you're honest about your bias, kudos.

Woah easy there. Luciens a good guy.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Woah easy there. Luciens a good guy.

I'm not making fun of his mansexuality; I've no problem that he prefers to putt from the rough, that's his business.

But he did say "visuals", so I assumed he was talking about Brad Pitt's ripped body.

Totally. His rippling muscles alone are proof enough.


I favour Achilles because, I guess, of what we don't see from Anakin. The novels and EU tell us the Jedi are super fast (the RotS novel states Mace and Palpatine fight "as blurs" to even Anakin's perception), but we don't see it. I've got nothing against a filmmaker saying "this is what I intend", but for our purposes in this forum, that makes things tough. Fact is, Anakin, Obi-Wan, Grievous, Maul etc., don't move super fast, or with any stated super strength (Grievous excepted). As I said earlier, arguing Star Wars without the EU is kinda lame. The visuals (the choreography, the sword fights etc) are all really cool, flashy, and fast... just not anything special. The actors are limited to their own ranges, and for that, so are the characters.


I'm not sure what this forum allows when it comes to 'intended reality' vs. 'visual reality', but nothing Anakin did in the prequels, strength or speed-wise, is enough to convince me he's a superhuman. At least not enough to overwhelm Achilles and his saber resistant weaponry.

And I'm having trouble buying the film version of precog as an insta-win. We know it exists because Qui-Gon said so, but it's shown to be incredibly faulty, especially in melees. In fact, deflecting blaster bolts seems to be it's one and only use. That and podracing.

Don't forget this scene:

uIMXsacUlDA

Man I love the OT.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
And I'm having trouble buying the film version of precog as an insta-win. We know it exists because Qui-Gon said so, but it's shown to be incredibly faulty, especially in melees. In fact, deflecting blaster bolts seems to be it's one and only use. That and podracing.

Against other Force-User with Battle-Precog, which is important. If we saw non-Force sensitive types defeating Jedi in melee duels left and right, you'd have a point.

Grevious is the one exception, but he's he a four-armed cyborg specially trained to fight against Jedi.

Originally posted by Robtard
Against other Force-User with Battle-Precog, which is important. If we saw non-Force sensitive types defeating Jedi in melee duels left and right, you'd have a point.

Grevious is the one exception, but he's he a four-armed cyborg specially trained to fight against Jedi. I know, but then what do they look when they're fighting non-Force users, such as Achilles? I like to try to avoid making arguments based on what I imagine to be fact. If I started doing that I'd have to add '112' to the end of my name.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I know, but then what do they look when they're fighting non-Force users, such as Achilles? I like to try to avoid making arguments based on what I imagine to be fact.

If I started doing that I'd have to add '112' to the end of my name.

If they didn't have the many feats of blocking blaster-fire more times than not blocking it, I'd agree with you. But it's there, the Battle-Precog; while not infallible, it's a serious advantage over someone who doesn't have it; especially in a 1v1 fight.

Haha, good one.

I guess. Though I feel obliged to bring up Jedi Master and Council member, Cole "The Man" Trebor. Pew pew, gotcha.


F*cking prequels.

Well remember, Jango was timing his shots there. Mountie training proves it.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I guess. Though I feel obliged to bring up Jedi Master and Council member, Cole "The Man" Trebor. Pew pew, gotcha.


F*cking prequels.

As noted, it's not infallible and he blocked how many shots before he was killed?

We also see Jango try the same exact maneuver on Mace a short time later; but it completely fails. Seems Battle-Precog scales with a Jedi's skill/mastery of the Force.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I am citing examples of precog failing. You failing to acknowledge this is why I don't take it easy on you.

You fail to understand the why here, which turns your "argument" into a nonsensical rant devoid of reason. It is clearly established within the movies, that to defeat a Jedi in combat, you either need a huge amount of firepower or the help of the force. None of that is available to Achilles, hence he goes down.



Stop boring me with your lack of knowledge. If you would be so kind to take a look at the scene at the beginning of "The Phantom Menace", in which Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon run away from the Droidekas, you could see, that they sprint down the rather long corridor in split seconds. I don't see Achilles coming close to moving that fast.

In terms of skill - I agree with you. Anakin does have less practice with his weapon than Achilles has. Yet, due to the fact, that it's practically weightless, he has the advantage of being capable of wielding it around far faster than Achilles can do with his sword. Not mentioning the advantages of precognition (which he did possess even as 9 year old child) and his - partly artificial - strength.



As I said: Context is important and you're ignoring it completely. By your logic, Achilles was simple shot with an arrow - because we can ignore how he was totally not focussed on what was going on around him. Does that make sense to you?

Yoda did decimate his foes, while being attacked with semi automatic range weapons from eight different persons. What Achilles did totally pales in comparison.



40 blaster bolts in about 4 seconds. Please read. And it happens, when Obi-Wan and Yoda fight their way into the Jedi Temple. You can count them for yourself:

bRV-C9qBaYA



And how skilled was Hector exactly? This kind of "debate" is rather boring. If you aren't capable of understanding movies, get out of the movie versus forum.



I would advise you to go and count the number of opponents in both instances. You should pay special attention to the background action in the battle scenes in "Attack of the Clones" in the arena, because what you will see, is single Jedi taking on 10 or more opponents at the same time.



What was it you didn't understand about the concept of precognition and superior firepower? They were betrayed by an army of Clones, that should have been absolutely loyal to them. Imagine this: Your "Jedi senses" (aka precognition) warn you, that you will get stabbed by your best friend in a second. Naturally, you would doubt that - and get stabbed. This is what happened to the Jedi, and it won't happen when an attack is expected already.

Likewise, almost all Jedi kills were performed by superior firepower. We see Anakin leading and entire legion of Clone Troopers into the Jedi Temple. We see a single Padawan taking it up with several Clone Troopers. We see, that the Jedi that are gunned down during Order 66, usually get shot by 6 or more Clones from close range with semi automatic weapons.

I still don't see Achilles coming up with sufficient abilities to beat Jedi precognition or their force enhanced speed / strength.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Borb is probably the smartest person I know.

Profiled.

Originally posted by Robtard
What you're saying doesn't equate to super-strength or anything super-human. Just a skilled fighter. Stop being a clown. Did you watch the movie ? Honestly. If you think any human alive or that has ever lived is capable of this then you've done lost your mind.

Originally posted by Robtard
So now that your "he blocked spears" fell flat, you're shifting to the shield, which I pointed out was the one impressive thing. Clown.

It is when it's coming from hundreds of foes and from many angles at once. battle of Genosis, Jedi where seen successfully doing this more times than failing.

No, you're being a clown, downplaying, making shit up and then shifting, it's all you have.

If you didn't pick up on it in the film, Achilles bleeds arrogance, he's completely full of himself. But that's neither here nor there. Achilles is clearly outmatched.

Achilles has skill, he's not getting pasted and/or everwhelming Vader's Battle-Precog though. It all was impressive and my point has always been about the relative ease in which he accomplished this while his focus was also elsewhere.

Blocking it isn't as impressive as fighting off opponents while casually blocking it as well. You gotta start looking at the complete picture here, hoss.


The issue isn't arrogance at all the issue is arrogance which costs Anakin. Achilles doesn't lose or have a crippling weakness due to arrogance such as Anakin. Big diff.

Originally posted by Nephthys
O RLY?

Yt4G6RPrO64

At 0.43 you can see Anakin fighting off the lightsaber instructor of the Jedi Order (basically one of the most skilled Jedi with a lightsaber) while throttling another Jedi.

What were you talking about Anakin not making skilled opponents look like schlubs?




So..... you admit that you were wrong? Gooooooooood.



No it doesn't. You've been told this multiple times already Quan, deflecting a spear is not superhuman.



Meh, its nothing Anakin couldn't do with the feats that we've provided. His strength and accuracy is beyond Achilles'. Heres another one I forgot.

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At 4.48 Anakin leaps onto Padmes bed and cuts two freaking caterpillers in half that are on top of her without touching her with his blade. Could Achilles have done something that precise and accurate that quickly? I think not.



Teaming up? Obi-Wan blocks both Magnaguards at the same time at the start of the fight. Thats much more impressive that deflecting a bloody spear.




We're not talking about him killing politicians. We're talkinh about him blocking a blaster shot completely blind with ease. Something that Achilles has never done.



Borb is probably the smartest person I know. So I do think so.




The spear thing is not an example of superstrength. The spear toss I'll give you. But Anakins own feats of superstrength stand as well. So its not like Achilles is going to overpower him. We don't see enough of the video and he's clearly more skilled than she is anyways. Someone like Obi he should just cut through like butter and it's even stated he's his superior by Obi himself yet he finds a way to lose.

That along with throwing a spear is superhuman. Humans can't casually do so like he did in the movie Troy.

I think it's accurate yes I could see Achilles doing so as well. Next.

Deflecting a bloody spear isn't the entire impressive feat it's what else he did while fighting his opponents all while making it look like it was nothing.

Achilles can block arrows with his shield while not even focusing on the archer while being attacked head on.

If you think using as many adjectives which have little to nothing to do with an actual point I can't see why else you'd be impressed.

Originally posted by Borbarad
You fail to understand the why here, which turns your "argument" into a nonsensical rant devoid of reason. It is clearly established within the movies, that to defeat a Jedi in combat, you either need a huge amount of firepower or the help of the force. None of that is available to Achilles, hence he goes down.

So you're saying without the force or a huge amount of firepower no amount of skill can ever defeat a jedi and sith in combat ? You're worse than I thought. I have cited examples and you have ignored them.

This isn't a sprint and we've seen Jango Fett pose a huge problem for Obi. Fett isn't some uber force wielding precog sporting son of a gun he's just a highly skilled bounty hunter, guy. Now while Qui Gonn would beat him in a race that doesn't mean he spanks his ass into the dirt in combat. I guess Usain Bolt is tougher than Pacquiao.

Achilles doesn't seem at a disadvantage at all despite his weapon weighing more than Vader's here. Precog didn't help him against Obi or Dooku. His arrogance blinds him. He believes in himself to the point of being delusional.


Yes, Yoda has went through random foes like they were ants but then again so has Achilles. Then again Yoda isn't Anakin either. Then again Yoda with his vaunted precog couldn't see an attack from Palpatine coming. He wasn't overwhelmed and what Palpatine's intentwas in the scene was obvious to even an idiot.


Two highly skilled jedi here not one. That changes everything.


Skilled enough to dominate his cousin and to show himself far superior to the giant wielding the hammer in combat. far better of a fighter than the guy who Achilles defeated with one jump stab.

10 or more opponents per jedi should be an easy victory to someone of their skill level considering the clones are mere fodder.


Not at all. If your a jedi you trust your precog. You've been aware of it for years and know it well. In some instances we see jedi deflect blaster fire and easily falter. In other instances we see jedi completely taken by surprise. All in all precog isn't as ironclad as you'd like it to be and the movies make it plain as day.
But some jedi aren't even aware of what's occurring until they are shot. With the clones you need massive numbers because they are clearly outclassed by the jedi.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Did you watch the movie ? Honestly. If you think any human alive or that has ever lived is capable of this then you've done lost your mind.

It all was impressive and my point has always been about the relative ease in which he accomplished this while his focus was also elsewhere.

Blocking it isn't as impressive as fighting off opponents while casually blocking it as well. You gotta start looking at the complete picture here, hoss.

The issue isn't arrogance at all the issue is arrogance which costs Anakin. Achilles doesn't lose or have a crippling weakness due to arrogance such as Anakin. Big diff.


Non sequitur response yet again, good job. We're talking about Achilles supposed(by you) super-strength; being a skilled spear-thrower and blocking a spear thrust doesn't eqaute to super-human strength. Clown.

Again, nothing to do with super-human strength, which is what you were jabbering about.

repeat: Again, nothing to do with super-human strength, which is what you were jabbering about.

And who did Vader lose to? Another guy who would wipe his ass with Achilles. So Vader's arrogance is irrelevant here, the fight will be over in seconds with Achilles' head rolling on the floor.

Originally posted by Robtard
Non sequitur response yet again, good job. We're talking about Achilles supposed(by you) super-strength; being a skilled spear-thrower and blocking a spear thrust doesn't eqaute to super-human strength. Clown.

Again, nothing to do with super-human strength, which is what you were jabbering about.

repeat: Again, nothing to do with super-human strength, which is what you were jabbering about.

And who did Vader lose to? Another guy who would wipe his ass with Achilles. So Vader's arrogance is irrelevant here, the fight will be over in seconds with Achilles' head rolling on the floor. That along with his other feats suggest super strength, hoss.

That has to do with a super battle awareness.

Are you saying he doesn't have superhuman strength ?

You making baseless claims again. It's what you do best. Achilles kills this overrated sith lord.

Originally posted by quanchi112
We don't see enough of the video and he's clearly more skilled than she is anyways. Someone like Obi he should just cut through like butter and it's even stated he's his superior by Obi himself yet he finds a way to lose.

That along with throwing a spear is superhuman. Humans can't casually do so like he did in the movie Troy.

I think it's accurate yes I could see Achilles doing so as well. Next.

Deflecting a bloody spear isn't the entire impressive feat it's what else he did while fighting his opponents all while making it look like it was nothing.

Achilles can block arrows with his shield while not even focusing on the archer while being attacked head on.

If you think using as many adjectives which have little to nothing to do with an actual point I can't see why else you'd be impressed.

You asked for him treating elite fighters like Schulbs, and thats what it shows. He loses to Obi-Wan because he's basically going insane at that point and as the movies show Jedi's emotions heavily affect their abilities.


Throwing the spear could be seen as being slightly superhuman. So? He isn't overpowering Anakin just like Grievous, who is much stronger than Achilles couldn't overpower Obi-Wan. But deflecting the spear was not even slightly superhuman.


Well you would be lying. Did you factor in that its night and Achilles would barely be able to see? I doubt it seeing as you are a massive fanboy who has actually admitted to arguing your favourite characters win even if they really dont due to bias. 'If your a real fan you'd never give up arguing for your fav characters, ever!'


That makes him highly skilled, it doesn't make him superhuman. Plus, you were never arguing it was everything else he did. You were arguing 'It being a spear shows how incredibly strong he is to casually dismiss a spear as opposed to an arrow.' That deflecting a spear shows superstrength. Which it does not.


As already explained to you theres no way he purposfully blocked that arrow. Continuing to assert that he did will get you nowhere with me.


I think casually kicking your ass while using a second language is pretty impressive yes. Though really its his detailed and eloquent logic that impresses me.

Originally posted by quanchi112
That along with his other feats suggest super strength, hoss.

That has to do with a super battle awareness.

Are you saying he doesn't have superhuman strength ?

You making baseless claims again. It's what you do best. Achilles kills this overrated sith lord.

Once again with the circular BS. Show some feat that takes "super-human strength" or STFU already.

Stop dancing, that wasn't the immediate topic and you didn't think of Achilles' battle awareness until I told you about it. You should thank me.

I've not seen super-human strength from Achilles.

Kenobi > Achilles isn't baseless and LoL on accusing me of what you're known for.

Originally posted by Robtard
Once again with the circular BS. Show some feat that takes "super-human strength" or STFU already.

Stop dancing, that wasn't the immediate topic and you didn't think of Achilles' battle awareness until I told you about it. You should thank me.

I've not seen super-human strength from Achilles.

Kenobi > Achilles isn't baseless and LoL on accusing me of what you're known for. Throwing a spear hundreds of yards is super human. Acting like it isn't is superdumb.

Wrong. He did have a battle awareness so acting like it's precog when it's obviously not since this only exists is star wars is kinda silly.

How far can the infamous robtard chuck a spear ? I am guessing 700 yards. What's your best toss, hoss ?

Kenobi isn't in Achilles' league. He'd get the Hector treatment. I can picture him strapping Obi to his chariot with you unable to watch in place of his wife's role incessantly sobbing. You're the romantic interest Obi never had in the films.

Originally posted by Nephthys
You asked for him treating elite fighters like Schulbs, and thats what it shows. He loses to Obi-Wan because he's basically going insane at that point and as the movies show Jedi's emotions heavily affect their abilities.


Throwing the spear could be seen as being slightly superhuman. So? He isn't overpowering Anakin just like Grievous, who is much stronger than Achilles couldn't overpower Obi-Wan. But deflecting the spear was not even slightly superhuman.


Well you would be lying. Did you factor in that its night and Achilles would barely be able to see? I doubt it seeing as you are a massive fanboy who has actually admitted to arguing your favourite characters win even if they really dont due to bias. 'If your a real fan you'd never give up arguing for your fav characters, ever!'


That makes him highly skilled, it doesn't make him superhuman. Plus, you were never arguing it was everything else he did. You were arguing 'It being a spear shows how incredibly strong he is to casually dismiss a spear as opposed to an arrow.' That deflecting a spear shows superstrength. Which it does not.


As already explained to you theres no way he purposfully blocked that arrow. Continuing to assert that he did will get you nowhere with me.


I think casually kicking your ass while using a second language is pretty impressive yes. Though really its his detailed and eloquent logic that impresses me. He used his rage and it worked against Dooku in their rematch. Not my fault the guy is an idiot and goes against Obi's advice and gets beaten because he's stupid. Achilles isn't stupid yet Anakin is a man ruled by his own emotions. Point Achilles.

I am glad you admit he's superhuman. Since you concede I will now kick a man while he's down. I'm a gentleman you know.

This is just drivel of a star wars fanatic who can't stand someone pointing out the downside of precog and the character flaws of Anakin. Blame Lucas.

It not only backs up he's strong it backs up how incredibly focused he is to everything taking place around him and seems like a far better awareness than Anakin who jumps into his doom despite protests from his opponent.

He's an incredibly skilled warrior who didn't get lucky it was all through awareness and skill. Acting like he just put his shield by chance is just desperation and a fear you're losing the debate which is justified since you are.

I am not impressed by his wordplay it's just another attempt to keep the focus off of the debate at hand. I've seen many falter against me and try this tactic before.

We know that Anakin can see the future. This can be proved when he dreams that Padme will die giving birth. We also know that no matter what Anakin does to try and stop it, his "pre-cogs" come true.

So here goes the situation -

Three weeks before the battle, Anakin wakes up on account of a bad dream. He finds himself feeling very violent - his hand is gripped on the sheets as if he's holding a light-saber. At the very end of his dream, he "sees" that he had cut a strange-looking, half-dressed man, in half. . He doesn't even see anything about the ankle. He doesn't need to - he has a freakin' light saber. And let me just say - that if a light saber can cut a human in half, nothing's going to stop it from going through a shield, I don't care how pimped out the thing is.

So the day comes. Anakin feels deja-vu from his dream, Achilles enters, Anakin thinks he's come for Padme, he does one of his crouching tiger, hidden dragon Jedi jumps, instantly closing the thirty feet. Achilles has had five seconds, at the most, to come in, take a look at the man with the angry face and the fire-sword coming toward him, feel an impending sense of doom, and then he's on the floor. He can't feel below his waist because he doesn't have a below the waist anymore, he can spot it ten feet away from him, both legs skewed.

His last thought : "Really should've prepared more for this, especially as I'm coming from a place where the fastest vehicle is a chariot, and here they race machines at insane speeds.. what is a machine anyway...?"

Anakin decapitates Achilles.

Brad Pitt's beautiful face stares blankly up at the sky.

The End.

Really take the 'writer' part of your name siriusly, don't you?

I just like to make sure there can be no other interpretation other than what I mean. Plus I have insane WIP. It's fun to type when you can go this fast.

Wikipedia's disambiguation list for 'WIP' didn't help me at all.

He was clearly talking about the Western Independence Party.

Originally posted by Placidity
He was clearly talking about the Western Independence Party. "She." And I meant to say WPM - words per minute.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He used his rage and it worked against Dooku in their rematch. Not my fault the guy is an idiot and goes against Obi's advice and gets beaten because he's stupid. Achilles isn't stupid yet Anakin is a man ruled by his own emotions. Point Achilles.

And when he fought Obi-Wan he was so pissed and insane that he was choking Padme the person who he killed children for. In this fight Anakin is not that insane and angry.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I am glad you admit he's superhuman. Since you concede I will now kick a man while he's down. I'm a gentleman you know.

No, I said it 'could be seen as slightly superhuman.' Its pushing the peak of what a human can do. Anakin is beyond human.

Originally posted by quanchi112
This is just drivel of a star wars fanatic who can't stand someone pointing out the downside of precog and the character flaws of Anakin. Blame Lucas.

Do you deny that you said that? Because I recall it quite clearly. To be honest I'm starting to question the logic of debating with a guy who has freely admitted to extreme fanboyism, that he'll argue for his favourite characters regardless of logic or common sense and that he'll never give up doing so.

So yeah, I'll probably not bother replying again.

Originally posted by quanchi112
It not only backs up he's strong it backs up how incredibly focused he is to everything taking place around him and seems like a far better awareness than Anakin who jumps into his doom despite protests from his opponent.

It doesn't back up that he's strong, as you've been informed. And it does not prove he has better awareness than Aankin considering Anakin can sense things happening in other rooms, can perfectly cut two worms with a surgeons precision in the dark while leaping onto a bed, can leap off a speeder onto another speeder (without injury btw) and can block shots to his back without looking.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He's an incredibly skilled warrior who didn't get lucky it was all through awareness and skill. Acting like he just put his shield by chance is just desperation and a fear you're losing the debate which is justified since you are.

You can't prove he did it on purpose. So drop it.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I am not impressed by his wordplay it's just another attempt to keep the focus off of the debate at hand. I've seen many falter against me and try this tactic before.

You know he's German right? You should be impressed by his wordplay. But whatever, he is far smarter than you.

Originally posted by Borbarad
What examples have you sited exactly? Order 66? Obvious application of superior firepower against the Jedi falling victim to it? All duels present in the movie? Examples of force users fighting force users. Where is your point?
It wasn't always superior firepower it was catching them completely off guard. Yoda only reacted a moment before they were going to kill him just the same. Precog can and has failed. It fails all the time it just aids them is all. It's not some kind of autowin reasoning which you seem rather obsessed about.

It showed a highly skilled opponent can take on a highly skilled jedi. Obi was in for the fight of his life against someone with weaponry unlike a jedi sword. Windu easily destroyed him as well further proving Obi is vastly exaggerated and yet he still managed to defeat Anakin.


I am citing examples from the same character which he still seems to make in rots as further evidence. He does stupid things which lose him fights. He gets frustrated and is arrogant to the point of it costing him a fight. Achilles stormed beaches and practically had no battle scars from constantly being in war time situations. That's one of the funniest reasons and most desperate tactics I've yet seen. I don't cite Achilles' spotless war time life as proof of anything I cite what we see on screen. The guy was a man among boys. Vader found a way to lose against someone who was inferior to him with a light saber.

I understood exactly this sort of tactic. You want to use a much more maneuverable character as legit evidence for something Anakin can do. Sorry, Yoda was above Anakin and we both know it. Obi was specifically not sent against Palpatine despite wanting too because he wasn't good enough to go up against him yet Yoda was.


The cousin was well above any average soldier as shown by his march into Hector. He was clearly outmatched by Hector who was well beyond any normal soldier as well. The giant slew multiple men and was taking arrows into his body without really slowing down. Hector managed to defeat him but it was much closer than Hector's win over his cousin.

I don't think so. Anakin despite being so on was overrated and lost to an opponent who knew himself to be inferior to Anakin. Achilles was hands down so far and away better than everyone else while at Anakin's best he was around Obi level.

The humans though are much quicker to react than a droid wit his lack of mobility which is a huge weakness. Achilles won his battle as well with a much smaller force whereas Anakin needed a lot of backup to stand a chance.


I've already given other examples such as Anakin's precog failing him against Dooku and Obi. I have also given an example of Yoda's precog failing to recognize the most obvious force lighting blast ever.


Yes, which give more weight to my precog is vague and isn't an automatic I know what's coming right before it happens like you make it sound.

Originally posted by Nephthys
And when he fought Obi-Wan he was so pissed and insane that he was choking Padme the person who he killed children for. In this fight Anakin is not that insane and angry. I agree he's an emotional nutcase. He's also been arrogant for the entire third movie so he isn't just nuts he firmly believes he can do so because he's bought into his own hype.




No human is ever capable of doing anything remotely close to this. It's not even close. It's superhuman.
That was a joke I made at the time in which some of you really took to hear. I like Maul more than Windu by leaps and bounds but fully understand Windu bests him.


Yes, it does if Anakin can't even tell jumping an opponent will lose him the fight he has much better awareness. He also has a much better control over his own emotions unlike Anakin who is a mess the entire third film. It's obvious he did. It's obvious the portrayal was this guy is such a badass this is how awesome he is when storming a beach outmanned and facing off against fire archers. The guy is the definition of calm, cool, and collected. Luck is something for weak feebs such as McClane.




I know he's into his own hype. I know you are a borb fanboy. He profiled your worship. Probably laughing his ass off with his german friends at you.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Throwing a spear hundreds of yards is super human. Acting like it isn't is superdumb.

Wrong. He did have a battle awareness so acting like it's precog when it's obviously not since this only exists is star wars is kinda silly.

How far can the infamous robtard chuck a spear ? I am guessing 700 yards. What's your best toss, hoss ?

Kenobi isn't in Achilles' league. He'd get the Hector treatment. I can picture him strapping Obi to his chariot with you unable to watch in place of his wife's role incessantly sobbing. You're the romantic interest Obi never had in the films.

It wasn't some super-human throwing feat/distance, as we see the horsemen quickly approaching the temple, stop masturbating Achilles. A very impressive throw, not "super-human strength" though.

Another reversal attempt, sorry; no ones buying it. You should thank me for making you aware of Achilles' battle-awareness.

More clown games. You need to prove Achilles has "super-human strength", not it's true until someone disproves it. You have nothing except clown-games though.

Kenobi is well beyond Achilles, just about any Jedi is. Idiot, I was gay for Qui-Gon Jin, not Kenobi.

Originally posted by Robtard
It wasn't some super-human throwing feat/distance, as we see the horsemen quickly approaching the temple, stop masturbating Achilles. A very impressive throw, not "super-human strength" though.

Another reversal attempt, sorry; no ones buying it. You should thank me for making you aware of Achilles' battle-awareness.

More clown games. You need to prove Achilles has "super-human strength", not it's true until someone disproves it. You have nothing except clown-games though.

Kenobi is well beyond Achilles, just about any Jedi is. Idiot, I was gay for Qui-Gon Jin, not Kenobi. It looks like it's further than a football field for sure which is 100 yards. So you believe a person can throw it just like Achilles did in the films ?

I'm right.

Unless you can prove someone can throw a spear as far and as accurate as Achilles did in the movie then my point stands. It's pretty obvious no human could replicate his feats making them superhuman.

Kenobi wasn't even beyond jango Fett who Windu bucked in 2 seconds. Obi would get worked by Achilles. Fifures you'd be gay for a guy who was easily sonned by boy Maul. Even my favorites mimic our debating relationship. Me winning you losing. You begging for help me beating your help as well.

Originally posted by quanchi112
It looks like it's further than a football field for sure which is 100 yards. So you believe a person can throw it just like Achilles did in the films ?

I'm right.

Unless you can prove someone can throw a spear as far and as accurate as Achilles did in the movie then my point stands. It's pretty obvious no human could replicate his feats making them superhuman.

Kenobi wasn't even beyond jango Fett who Windu bucked in 2 seconds. Obi would get worked by Achilles. Fifures you'd be gay for a guy who was easily sonned by boy Maul.

Even my favorites mimic our debating relationship. Me winning you losing. You begging for help me beating your help as well.

Look again, but remove your fanboy goggles first, it's far less than an football field. Measure the flight travel and how quickly Hector reaches the temple after.

Only in your own little mind.

Incorrect, the proof of burden is on you. That throw wasn't "super-human."

LoL, you need to watch the films and not rely on just youtube clips. Jango would shoot Achilles dead in 2 seconds though. You probably think Achilles would defeat Grivous too. The "I'm gay for Qui-Gon" was an obvious rebuttal joke to your clown-games, so calm down, nancy.

The hell are you ranting about now, are you patting yourself on the back again? How sad.

Originally posted by siriuswriter
We know that Anakin can see the future. This can be proved when he dreams that Padme will die giving birth. We also know that no matter what Anakin does to try and stop it, his "pre-cogs" come true.

So here goes the situation -

Three weeks before the battle, Anakin wakes up on account of a bad dream. He finds himself feeling very violent - his hand is gripped on the sheets as if he's holding a light-saber. At the very end of his dream, he "sees" that he had cut a strange-looking, half-dressed man, in half. . He doesn't even see anything about the ankle. He doesn't need to - he has a freakin' light saber. And let me just say - that if a light saber can cut a human in half, nothing's going to stop it from going through a shield, I don't care how pimped out the thing is.

So the day comes. Anakin feels deja-vu from his dream, Achilles enters, Anakin thinks he's come for Padme, he does one of his crouching tiger, hidden dragon Jedi jumps, instantly closing the thirty feet. Achilles has had five seconds, at the most, to come in, take a look at the man with the angry face and the fire-sword coming toward him, feel an impending sense of doom, and then he's on the floor. He can't feel below his waist because he doesn't have a below the waist anymore, he can spot it ten feet away from him, both legs skewed.

His last thought : "Really should've prepared more for this, especially as I'm coming from a place where the fastest vehicle is a chariot, and here they race machines at insane speeds.. what is a machine anyway...?"

Anakin decapitates Achilles.

Brad Pitt's beautiful face stares blankly up at the sky.

The End.

A-

Originally posted by Robtard
A-

I just needed to wax poetic about Brad Pitt. I'm sorry, I'm a girl. It has to be done.

Originally posted by Robtard
Look again, but remove your fanboy goggles first, it's far less than an football field. Measure the flight travel and how quickly Hector reaches the temple after.

Only in your own little mind.

Incorrect, the proof of burden is on you. That throw wasn't "super-human."

LoL, you need to watch the films and not rely on just youtube clips. Jango would shoot Achilles dead in 2 seconds though. You probably think Achilles would defeat Grivous too. The "I'm gay for Qui-Gon" was an obvious rebuttal joke to your clown-games, so calm down, nancy.

The hell are you ranting about now, are you patting yourself on the back again? How sad. Yes, which means more than a football field. Thanks for agreeing.

My mind is greater than yours.

Then provide an example of someone who can do so or has do so in real life otherwise if you cannot then it's superhuman.

Achilles would defeat anyone around Obi level 10/10.

I am stating a fact.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, which means more than a football field. Thanks for agreeing.

My mind is greater than yours.

Then provide an example of someone who can do so or has do so in real life otherwise if you cannot then it's superhuman.

Achilles would defeat anyone around Obi level 10/10.

I am stating a fact.

More clown tactics.

More self back-patting.

Not how it works, you're claiming he has super-human strength, you need to prove it. The longest javelin throw is close to 100meters, which is far longer than that scene depicted considering the spear's flight-time and how close Hector closed on the temple after. Now do your little dodge/fallacy dance flips for me. Go.

More fanboying.

Yet more self back-patting.

Originally posted by siriuswriter
I just needed to wax poetic about Brad Pitt. I'm sorry, I'm a girl. It has to be done.

I heard Brad Pitt doesn't brush his teeth every day.

Who does?

Originally posted by Robtard
More clown tactics.

More self back-patting.

Not how it works, you're claiming he has super-human strength, you need to prove it. The longest javelin throw is close to 100meters, which is far longer than that scene depicted considering the spear's flight-time and how close Hector closed on the temple after. Now do your little dodge/fallacy dance flips for me. Go.

More fanboying.

Yet more self back-patting. Saying clown tactics over and over isn't debating. I continue to do so while you repeat yourself like the Rain Man.

Throwing something as hard as you can for distance as opposed to throwing it a considerable distance along with hitting a moving target aren't the same things. LOL.

Achilles wins.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Saying clown tactics over and over isn't debating. I continue to do so while you repeat yourself like the Rain Man.

Throwing something as hard as you can for distance as opposed to throwing it a considerable distance along with hitting a moving target aren't the same things. LOL.

Achilles wins.

Using clown tactics which you do isn't debating, sorry.

So another dodge, called it.

Originally posted by Robtard
Using clown tactics which you do isn't debating, sorry.

So another dodge, called it. You keep conceding in every debate we have. Don't you have any self respect ?

So you feel throwing something as far as you can is the same thing as throwing something deadly accurate from 100 yards away ? Really ?

Originally posted by quanchi112
You keep conceding in every debate we have. Don't you have any self respect ?

So you feel throwing something as far as you can is the same thing as throwing something deadly accurate from 100 yards away ? Really ?

And more clown tactics coupled with self back-patting.

Must you resort to being a clown in every thread? You need to prove that Achilles' throw was "super-human" and not just a very impressive throw, you won't, because you can't. Why you dance the dance of the sugarplum fallacies. Moving on.

Sad thing, it doesn't even matte if Achilles' had "super-human strength" as you claim, Vader's still winning due to being faster, more agile and Force-precog.

Originally posted by Robtard
And more clown tactics coupled with self back-patting.

Must you resort to being a clown in every thread? You need to prove that Achilles' throw was "super-human" and not just a very impressive throw, you won't, because you can't. Why you dance the dance of the sugarplum fallacies. You're like my own personal hector. I toy with you.

I get it you feel normal people can perform the feats Achilles performed in the movies making them just human feats. I kinda think it's funny but more or less sad.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You're like my own personal hector. I toy with you.

I get it you feel normal people can perform the feats Achilles performed in the movies making them just human feats. I kinda think it's funny but more or less sad.

Lol, you edited out part of my response, truth hurts you that much so you dodge, eh. Clown.

Originally posted by Robtard
Lol, you edited out part of my response, truth hurts you that much so you dodge, eh. Clown. You edited it. I don't edit out anything save giant pictures from time to time.

Vader isn't more skilled nor as battle effective as Achilles is. Vader is controlled by his emotions whereas Achilles lives for glory and it will be glorious after he drags Anakin's dead body around for Palpatine to see.

LoL, I posted at 12:30; you replied at 12:33. You're a poor liar.

Telling how instead of facing that truth I posted, you dodge and do little flips again. Good monkey.

Vader wins, he's clearly better.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I agree he's an emotional nutcase. He's also been arrogant for the entire third movie so he isn't just nuts he firmly believes he can do so because he's bought into his own hype.

What and Achilles isn't arrogant? Anakin can back his arrogance up with genuinely superhuman abilities, and has defeated pretty much the most skilled swordsman in the Galaxy in single combat in the form of Dooku. He's better than Achilles.


Originally posted by quanchi112
No human is ever capable of doing anything remotely close to this. It's not even close. It's superhuman.

It really was not that far. You're just hyping the shit out of things like you always do. And again, Anakin has superhuman strength as well. So big ****ing deal.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, it does if Anakin can't even tell jumping an opponent will lose him the fight he has much better awareness.

As explained, Anakin is not as emotionally insane as he was in that fight with Obi-Wan. Plus Anakin had just fought a 30 minute fight at that point. Fatigue would be a factor.


Originally posted by quanchi112
It's obvious he did. It's obvious the portrayal was this guy is such a badass this is how awesome he is when storming a beach outmanned and facing off against fire archers. The guy is the definition of calm, cool, and collected. Luck is something for weak feebs such as McClane.

It being 'obvious' to you isn't an acceptable argument. It sure as hell wasn't obvious to me, for reasons I've already explained. If he was trying to block the arrow why not simply raise the shield and block it.


Originally posted by quanchi112
I know he's into his own hype. I know you are a borb fanboy. He profiled your worship. Probably laughing his ass off with his german friends at you.


As opposed to the entire forum laughing its ass off at you?

Originally posted by Robtard
LoL, I posted at 12:30; you replied at 12:33. You're a poor liar.

Telling how instead of facing that truth I posted, you dodge and do little flips again. Good monkey.

Vader wins, he's clearly better. I just responded to the part of your post you edited. My brain works quicker than yours does. Achilles still wins.

Oh Quanchi. Y u so Quanchi?

Originally posted by Nephthys
What and Achilles isn't arrogant? Anakin can back his arrogance up with genuinely superhuman abilities, and has defeated pretty much the most skilled swordsman in the Galaxy in single combat in the form of Dooku. He's better than Achilles. Achilles' arrogance doesn't make cause him to make stupid and irrational decisions while in combat. That's the entire point but maybe that german idol of yours can help you out. No, Anakin obviously hasn't. He never defeated in fair combat Yoda, Obi, Palpatine, or Windu. Sorry, you're exaggerating again. Achilles mops the floor with his movies best while Anakin sobs and pouts when he loses.



I don't hype things I lay them out fair. My nickname wouldn't be the Voice of Reason if I hyped things. Anakin can't even physically dominate Obi Wan so how is he going to do anything to Achilles ?


This is rots Anakin so he's an emotional wreck the entire time. The guy is just constantly obsessing over this. He wasn't fatigued he was just stupid. Obi knew he couldn't pull it off and even told him not too. That's one of the worst combat showings ever. Your opponent is giving you advice and like an idiot you hand over a victory due to arrogance.



There was no element of luck in the entire film when it came to his capabilities and skill. The movie made it plain as day he moved the shield to block the arrow. I guess when he blocked the spears out of the air he was just lucky as well. Every win just luck in your book. Lucky swings.

Laughing out of fear and desperation maybe.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Achilles' arrogance doesn't make cause him to make stupid and irrational decisions while in combat. That's the entire point but maybe that german idol of yours can help you out.

What about the time Achilles refused to fight because Agamemnon was mean to him? It cost hundreds of lives all because he was having a hissy fit.

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, Anakin obviously hasn't. He never defeated in fair combat Yoda, Obi, Palpatine, or Windu. Sorry, you're exaggerating again. Achilles mops the floor with his movies best while Anakin sobs and pouts when he loses.

Anakin defeated Dooku twice, and Dooku is the most skilled duelist in the movies according to George Lucas and Nick Gillard, the fight choreographer. So yeah, Anakin has.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I don't hype things I lay them out fair. My nickname wouldn't be the Voice of Reason if I hyped things.

Of course you don't. thats why you never claimed that Achilles blocked arrows with his sword, or that him deflecting a spear counts as superstrength, or that putting a shield on his back counts as precognition and awareness above that of someone who can sense things in other rooms, see the future and jump out of a flying car and land on a flying car a mile blow him driving at about a hundred miles per hour.

ALL HAIL THE VOICE OF REASON!


Originally posted by quanchi112
Anakin can't even physically dominate Obi Wan so how is he going to do anything to Achilles ?

Obi-Wan was blocking attacks from a cyborg that was strong enough to dent a space ships hull with his fist. Oh and:

pSwy412nttI

At 1.08 Anakin does overpower him.


Originally posted by quanchi112
This is rots Anakin so he's an emotional wreck the entire time.

No he isn't. When he defeated Dooku he was fine.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He wasn't fatigued he was just stupid.

He'd been fighting for half an hour on top of a river of magma! Though if you think Anakin has superhuman stamina thats fine by me.


Originally posted by quanchi112
There was no element of luck in the entire film when it came to his capabilities and skill. The movie made it plain as day he moved the shield to block the arrow. I guess when he blocked the spears out of the air he was just lucky as well. Every win just luck in your book. Lucky swings.

I'm not seing any proof. Just you waffling on as usual.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Laughing out of fear and desperation maybe.

People don't laugh out of fear and desperation.

They laugh out of derision.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I just responded to the part of your post you edited. My brain works quicker than yours does.

Achilles still wins.

The time-stamp on the posts don't lie, you silly retarded clown. It's okay though, if I were you debating me, I'd dodge me too. Moving on.

Let's get real though, the second Achilles sees Vader standing there with his golden hand, burning sword and having the Force at his disposal, Achilles will think Vader's one of the gods; likely Ares and will instantly drop to his knees and worship. This is how it ends, Achilles worshiping Vader.

Achilles fights gods, he doesn't afraid of anything.

Originally posted by quanchi112
It wasn't always superior firepower it was catching them completely off guard. Yoda only reacted a moment before they were going to kill him just the same. Precog can and has failed. It fails all the time it just aids them is all. It's not some kind of autowin reasoning which you seem rather obsessed about.


How, tell me, would Achilles catch Anakin unaware, when he is the only thing Anakin has to focus on because the two are engaging in a duel? Did I miss the part of the opening post, that says Achilles sneaks up to Anakin, with the latter meditating and not giving a damn about his surrounding and the fight starts in the split second before Achilles puts his spear or sword through Anakin? Because that would be the only situation, in which Achilles could hope to win this.

And yes. Precog has failed. I've explained to you - en detail - how and why. You remain ignorant to those facts and keep repeating your already defeated arguments, because you can't accept that Achilles is nowhere close to the combat abilities of a Jedi Knight, especially not one like Anakin Skywalker.



It showed, and I hate to repeat myself, somebody with A HUGE AMOUNT OF FIREPOWER being able to ESCAPE from a Jedi, given that Obi-Wan clearly survived the fight, in which he didn't even want to kill Jango. This still is an example of the - aforementioned - ability to "defeat" Jedi through use of superior firepower, and your attempt to gloss over it doesn't change that fact.



Again, your use of double-standards is outright hilarious. So he does stupid things which lose him fights? That's funny. Because I remember somebody kneeling down to the ground in the midst of a city raid and mass slaughter, which resulted in him being riddled with arrows? So is Achilles even more stupid than Anakin? I don't see how this actually affects a virtual fight between those two, unless you want to assume, that they go PIS all over the place and whack at each other, affected by some emotional delusion, in which case Anakin would still win.



I fail to see, why I should continue a debate with a person totally ignorant towards the topic he tries to talk about. The person you deem "inferior with a lightsaber", was one of the best lightsaber combatants the order had in the respective time frame, which is evident by the fact alone, that they chose Kenobi to deal with General Grievous. I also don't know how you conclude that Anakin is superior with a lightsaber to Kenobi. You do realize, that in their fight they look pretty much equal and the only other fight to judge the characters from was the fight against Dooku, in which Dooku offed Kenobi with force attacks - not by outduelling him.

So, thanks for - once again - basing your "argument" on a false assumption and making yourself look like an idiot.



Apparently, you need a lecture about Anakin's abilities, because you clearly unable to comprehend them:


as a nine year old, Anakin participated in one of the most dangerous sports in the Galaxy, that was based upon navigating vehicles moving with almost sonic speed on ground level through rather narrow race tracks. He was, in fact, the only human being in the Galaxy capable of participating in that sport, due to his superhuman reflexes (based on his accurate precognition).
being impressed with said abilities, Qui-Gon performs medi-chlorian testing on Anakin, with the result being that he is the potentially most powerful force user the Jedi Order has seen so far.
he "luckily" takes out pretty much the entire Trade Federation droid army on Naboo by destroying their command ship. This may seem like an incident, but if we have to trust on screen evidence, then, according to Obi-Wan Kenobi in "A new hope", there is nothing like "luck". Instead, an unusual amount of luck is testament to a high affinity to the force.
being 19 years old, he was capable of using his lightsaber with such accuracy, that he was capable of cutting through two objects on a human body with his blade, without even touching the body on which said objects lied (Neph has already served you the corresponding on screen evidence)
right after this scene, he jumps out of the speeder him and Obi-Wan are using and accurately predicts the exact millisecond in which he has to jump, in order to catch the speeder of the assassin several hundret feets below.
by this, he already demonstrates superhuman speed and durability. If you don't get what I mean, try to get a grip on a car moving at maximum speed, after having dropped several hundred feet down to it. Any human trying something like that, will be killed by the fall, or has his arm torn out in the process.
when he learns that his mother has died in a Tusken camp, he proceeds to slaughter the entire village. While you may want to chalk that up to the "fodder" he killed, those Tusken happen to be rather dangerous warriors, given the demonstrations of their aim in TPM and the lessons of Obi-Wan in ANH.
he then survives the battle in the arena of Geonosis - which is impressive enough, provided the position he started that battle from.
he managed to keep up with one of the most powerful Jedi Masters gone Sith. A unique fencer, with eight decades of training with a lightsaber.
in RotS he slaughters more "fodder" on his way to Dooku and on his way to Grievous.
he defeats the aforementioned Jedi Master gone Sith with eight decades of training in saber combat.
he slaughters much of the population of the Jedi Temple, including, but not limited to, Jedi Master Cin Drallig, one of the best combatants the Jedi order had, facing several other Jedi at the same time.
with likewise lack of effort, he slaughters the seperatist council, exhibiting the ability to accurately deflect blasterfire, coming in from behind his back, without even looking
he goes toe to toe with one of the most skilled lightsaber wielders of his order (Obi-Wan) in one of the most intense battles in the saga.
when he loses this, he somehow manages to survive getting both legs and an arm cut off, getting incinerated, and lying right next to a lava river. If you know, how freaking hot lava is, he again demonstrates an inhuman amount of durability and ability to take pain here.


Those are the feats that apply here and even if we would assume, that your invented feats for Achilles would have happened, Anakin would be still head and shoulders above the Greek warrior, due to the fact that he does possess superhuman reflexes, strength, speed and precognition.

Who cares?
Even Jedi padawans are regarded as unparalleled warriors within the Star Wars galaxy, with the Jedi Knights and Masters being above them, and with the likes of Anakin and Obi-Wan among the most skilled Jedi Masters. So they are the elite of a group of elite warriors, which belongs to an order of warriors with legendary skills. Skills not only present, just because of the Jedi using the Force, but also because each and everyone of them is trained from infancy on in the use of the lightsaber and the Force. The Jedi order is the Star Wars equivalent of Sparta in Ancient Greek.



You still fail to understand the fact that Obi-Wan is as superhuman as Anakin is. Achilles, on the other hand, is not. He is a very well trained human being, granted - better than anybody else, yet, he is still no superhuman. He would be baffled by a Jedi's speed, "reflexes", fighting skills and precognition. He can't keep up with that, no matter how hard he would try.



*facepalm*
The Jedi, according to Dooku, faced an army of droids outnumbering them one hundred to one maybe even 1000 to one. Where is the compareable enemy force in Achilles taking of the beach? Correct: It doesn't exists. Then again: How does it even matter. We're not discussing a virtual king of the beach contest here, but a fight to the death between just those two opponents.



Can it be, that all those examples happened against force users? What were the rules for defeating a force user again? Ah...yes. Having a huge amount of firepower or BEING A FORCE USER YOURSELF.



You're trying to downplay precog, because you know that Achilles stands no chance against it. Not that it matters, because Anakin's other feats alone put him far above human beings like Achilles.



I can assure you, that there is only person that causes me to "laugh my ass off" with my German friends here, and that would be you. It's also nice that you're bold enough to cast judgements on me, based on a few post in an internet forum - without even knowing the context. Did you acquire that kind of social competence along the way to your 60,000+ postings here? The sheer hilarity of proclaiming that I am "into my hype", when you run around here, presuming that you're a great debater, when just bringing bullshit to the table was too much, though. You shouldn't presume to be a vampire, just because you suck.

Never heard that one. Source?

Originally posted by Robtard
I heard Brad Pitt doesn't brush his teeth every day.

There are far grosser things.

Actually, I'm not really a Pitt fan... I prefer tough manly men to pretty boys.

Christian Bale, Jensen Ackles, Clive Owen.

Any of whom would trounce Achilles, because Achilles would want to fight them to prove his manly man-ness.

And we all know where that ends...

Originally posted by Nephthys
What about the time Achilles refused to fight because Agamemnon was mean to him? It cost hundreds of lives all because he was having a hissy fit. He didn't have any respect for his king who didn't have any respect for him along with any of his men or even his brother. That's called not being a puppet which Anakin had down pat in service to the emperor. I guess being a puppet impresses you. Wow.


No, he only defeated him once. Dooku defeated Anakin twice in the clones. Dooku isn't greater than Yoda, Windu, or Palpatine try and be serious for once.


All of what he did makes it easy to see the guy was capable of superhuman feats including strength, skill, battle awareness, etc. Anakin jumped to attack an inferior opponent who warned him it would lose him the fight. What precision what skill. Just call me Voice or Reason.



Obi wasn't anywhere near as strong as he was and needed a weapon to best him. Don't try comparing Obi's strength to Grievous' now. Yes, he does briefly in which Obi gets right out of. Weak sauce.



Yes, he did defeat Dooku after losing twice years prior and due to channeling his rage into killing an inferior opponent. Didn't work against Obi.


So had Obi. They were tired not about to pass out. Obi is level headed whereas Anakin isn't. That's what you want so be it. Yes, it's 'an awkward laugh because you are clearly outmatched.

The Voice of reason wins yet another.

Originally posted by Robtard
The time-stamp on the posts don't lie, you silly retarded clown. It's okay though, if I were you debating me, I'd dodge me too. Moving on.

Let's get real though, the second Achilles sees Vader standing there with his golden hand, burning sword and having the Force at his disposal, Achilles will think Vader's one of the gods; likely Ares and will instantly drop to his knees and worship. This is how it ends, Achilles worshiping Vader. You get so emotional. You also repeat yourself but what else would I expect.

What did Achilles do to the statue of Apollo ? Yeah, unlike you I cite what's in character whereas you rant based out of personal bias.

Anakin would probably ask him if he could help save that whore, Padme.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You get so emotional. You also repeat yourself but what else would I expect.

What did Achilles do to the statue of Apollo ? Yeah, unlike you I cite what's in character whereas you rant based out of personal bias.

Anakin would probably ask him if he could help save that whore, Padme.

Says the guy who spends 90% of his time crying and arguing ad nauseum points in here.

LoL, Vader is not some inanimate statue. What an idiot.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He didn't have any respect for his king who didn't have any respect for him along with any of his men or even his brother. That's called not being a puppet which Anakin had down pat in service to the emperor. I guess being a puppet impresses you. Wow.

FWOOSH!

Thats the sound of my point going over your head.


Originally posted by quanchi112
No, he only defeated him once. Dooku defeated Anakin twice in the clones. Dooku isn't greater than Yoda, Windu, or Palpatine try and be serious for once.

You've obviously never seen the Clone Wars movie, where Anakin duels Dooku and puts him on his ass at the end of it.

And in the duel on Geonosis Dooku and Yoda were relativly evenly matched.

Originally posted by quanchi112
All of what he did makes it easy to see the guy was capable of superhuman feats including strength, skill, battle awareness, etc. Anakin jumped to attack an inferior opponent who warned him it would lose him the fight. What precision what skill. Just call me Voice or Reason.

Nope. As usual you are inventing feats and overhyping shit. Anakin has superhuman abilities beyond Achilles. Seriously, how does Achilles deal with Force Speed? Anakins lightsaber will be bisecting him before he can flick his perfectly styled hair out of his eyes.


Originally posted by quanchi112
Obi wasn't anywhere near as strong as he was and needed a weapon to best him. Don't try comparing Obi's strength to Grievous' now. Yes, he does briefly in which Obi gets right out of. Weak sauce.

Obi-Wan was able to block Grievous' blows. Anakin not overpowering him does make him weak because Obi-Wan has already demonstrated the ability to deal with superstrong opponants like Grievous.


Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, he did defeat Dooku after losing twice years prior and due to channeling his rage into killing an inferior opponent. Didn't work against Obi.

So you admit Anakin defeated a swordsman beyond Achilles? Excellent.


Originally posted by quanchi112
So had Obi. They were tired not about to pass out. Obi is level headed whereas Anakin isn't. That's what you want so be it. Yes, it's 'an awkward laugh because you are clearly outmatched.

The Voice of reason wins yet another.


Wins another what? Another round of failing? Its not hard Quan, you're the only one participating in that game.



Originally posted by Turr_Phennir
Never heard that one. Source?


http://img.ponibooru.org/images/60/6073055ba3bd725cf6c67cf6cbd873c9

Originally posted by Borbarad
How, tell me, would Achilles catch Anakin unaware, when he is the only thing Anakin has to focus on because the two are engaging in a duel? Did I miss the part of the opening post, that says Achilles sneaks up to Anakin, with the latter meditating and not giving a damn about his surrounding and the fight starts in the split second before Achilles puts his spear or sword through Anakin? Because that would be the only situation, in which Achilles could hope to win this. Anakin was caught unaware of attacking Obi in which Obi even warned him. Do you pay attention at all ? Why must I leep on repeating myself. Anakin also focused on Dooku yet ran wildly right into force lightning. Precog's like unbeatable, right ? Nah, Achilles would pwn him and ride off with his broken body strapped to his chariot.
Yes, and you can't get past the times it has failed in humiliating fashion. The guy in this thread jumped at Obi despite his opponent saying you can't win with Obi having the higher ground. Precog failed.

It showed an inferior opponent almost best Obi who is clearly superior skill wise despite Obi's precog.


Achilles wasn't in direct combat with anyone and was seeing to the aid of his slave whorish girlfriend.

Anakin being defeated because he's stupid is completely different than someone shooting an arrow into your foot while your seeing to your property.
Obi admits Anakin is superior to him. You acting like I am ignorant is more projecting. Anakin was a problem and wasn't fully trusted at that point which is a good call. Dooku took care of him rather easily both fights. Anakin is superior with a saber and Obi ready admits his inferiority. The mere fact Anakin loses shows how combat stupid he is.
So, thanks for - once again - basing your "argument" on a false assumption and making yourself look like an idiot.


You gave a rather detailed mainly pointless rant about Anakin's feats. We all know his feats and his losses against Dooku twice and Obi is rather apparent. The rest is window dressing in which you really adjective up his meaningless feats and try to hype them into wow this guy might have a chance against Doctor Manhattan he's that formidable.

Originally posted by Borbarad
Who cares?
Even Jedi padawans are regarded as unparalleled warriors within the Star Wars galaxy, with the Jedi Knights and Masters being above them, and with the likes of Anakin and Obi-Wan among the most skilled Jedi Masters. So they are the elite of a group of elite warriors, which belongs to an order of warriors with legendary skills. Skills not only present, just because of the Jedi using the Force, but also because each and everyone of them is trained from infancy on in the use of the lightsaber and the Force. The Jedi order is the Star Wars equivalent of Sparta in Ancient Greek. Ok, but out of all of the empires of earth in Troy Achilles stood alone. Anakin wasn't looking down on everyone else like Achilles was out of his era' or movies respective elite warriors.


Achilles is superhuman as well. No one ever could pull off the feats Achilles does with ease while in combat you are trying to downplay Achilles feats. They are very much superhuman. He's skilled enough to parry a saber's attacks with his sword and shield.


You're just guessing now. Achilles is far better general in battle than Anakin but that's just one more thing he's better at.


Wrong. We've seen single shots hit them. We've also seen force users telegraph their attacks in which jedi have no been able to react despite their precog.

Achilles battle awareness is all he needs here. To casually knock spears out of the air while blocking arrows while engaging in sword fights right in front of you is proof enough.


I was just kidding about you having a large number of german friends though so slow down. I post a lot. You don't. I'm a better debater. You're not. Hey don't worry if it wasn't for people like you people like me wouldn't stand out.

This is a debate between you and Borbarad, but I can't help but respond to that last post.


Originally posted by quanchi112
Ok, but out of all of the empires of earth in Troy Achilles stood alone. Anakin wasn't looking down on everyone else like Achilles was out of his era' or movies respective elite warriors.


"Of all empires of earth in Troy"?

What?

You mean Mycenae and a coalition of Greek states vs. the city-state of Troy?

Not exactly "all empires of earth"...

And Anakin was one the the best warriors in the entire galaxy...



I haven't been reading this thread closely, but what exactly are the "superhuman" feats of Achilles?




I'm pretty sure the point was that the Jedi faced much more difficult opposition against blaster-firing droids that massively outnumbered them, which is definitely more impressive than storming a beach of archers who aren't outnumbering the Mymidons 100, or 1000-1.

And if you didn't know, Skywalker was known as the "Hero with No Fear," a moniker given to him for his exploits in the Clone Wars. He became a poster boy for Republic. There is a reason why Grievous says to Skywalker in ROTS: "Anakin Skywalker, I was expecting someone of your reputation to be a bit...older."




Where exactly is this "battle awareness"?

Perhaps, like Borbarad, you should provide a list of Achilles feats hmm?

Originally posted by Korto Vos
If Anakin has precognition, how does he lose this fight?

Truth.

However, he doesn't have precog. The OP says "no force powers".


That makes me think that he won't even be able to properly wield a lightsaber anymore because he's used to using it as a force user, not a layman.

The whole "gyroscoping" effect and everything...


So, I say Achilles wins 10 out of 10 times.


Basically, what the thread starter did was remove Vader's ability to know how to use a lightsaber by removing his force abilities. He would have to relearn how to use it without the force.


I want to see the thread amended to allow for force powers. But a new thread would have to be created with the Mod's approval.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Truth.

However, he doesn't have precog. The OP says "no force powers".


That makes me think that he won't even be able to properly wield a lightsaber anymore because he's used to using it as a force user, not a layman.

The whole "gyroscoping" effect and everything...


So, I say Achilles wins 10 out of 10 times.


Basically, what the thread starter did was remove Vader's ability to know how to use a lightsaber by removing his force abilities. He would have to relearn how to use it without the force.


I want to see the thread amended to allow for force powers. But a new thread would have to be created with the Mod's approval.

It seems Quanchi meant Anakin won't be able to use Force moves such as Push, Pull, or Choke. But Anakin still has his Force-fueled physical prowess and lightsaber skill.

Erm...I guess precognition is part of his physical prowess (how he used it to help him win the podrace)

Originally posted by Nephthys
SbzihjSUeLs

Oh look, Anakin and Obi-Wan easily deflecting spears (or equivilent).

lol


I was going to post that (I'm reading the whole thread, right now) but saw this post.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
It seems Quanchi meant Anakin won't be able to use Force moves such as Push, Pull, or Choke. But Anakin still has his Force-fueled physical prowess and lightsaber skill.

Erm...I guess precognition is part of his physical prowess (how he used it to help him win the podrace)

That may be what he meant, but he screwed up the OP (which is the law for this thread).

I want to see another thread made, really.


As it's being argued, no force TK?


In that case, 10/10 for Anakin. With ease...without effort.

Originally posted by Robtard
We also see Jango try the same exact maneuver on Mace a short time later; but it completely fails. Seems Battle-Precog scales with a Jedi's skill/mastery of the Force.

This, and while it gets quite stupid with Anakin's defeat against Obi-Wan, there no exceptions that come to mind (even the Yod and Sidious stuff the SW haters like to bring up. My opinion on that is that they both knew it would happen when it did but chose to avoid it to play off of each other's skills).

Originally posted by quanchi112
That along with throwing a spear is superhuman. Humans can't casually do so like he did in the movie Troy.


Wait, I remember something about that.

Do you have a vid of that throw?

If I remember that scene properly, yes, Achilles would be superhuman. Very superhuman, in fact. Show me the vid and I can help support your case.

Originally posted by Robtard
Non sequitur response yet again, good job.

Get your own lines, bub. uhuh

Originally posted by Nephthys
I think casually kicking your ass while using a second language is pretty impressive yes. Though really its his detailed and eloquent logic that impresses me.

I, as well. He argued for HP peeps long before it was "safe" to do so...and quite masterfully. He accomplished, with the same points that RJ used, in one post what RJ couldn't do for dozens of pages. 313

Originally posted by Turr_Phennir
Never heard that one. Source?

I, as well.

Neph
http://img.ponibooru.org/images/60/6073055ba3bd725cf6c67cf6cbd873c9

Seriously, what's the source?

Originally posted by Robtard
Says the guy who spends 90% of his time crying and arguing ad nauseum points in here.

LoL, Vader is not some inanimate statue. What an idiot. Vader is a guy prone to mistakes even obvious ones against skilled opponents. Achilles isn't ruled by his emotions and fear like Vader is. Originally posted by Nephthys
FWOOSH!

Thats the sound of my point going over your head.




You've obviously never seen the Clone Wars movie, where Anakin duels Dooku and puts him on his ass at the end of it.

And in the duel on Geonosis Dooku and Yoda were relativly evenly matched.



Nope. As usual you are inventing feats and overhyping shit. Anakin has superhuman abilities beyond Achilles. Seriously, how does Achilles deal with Force Speed? Anakins lightsaber will be bisecting him before he can flick his perfectly styled hair out of his eyes.




Obi-Wan was able to block Grievous' blows. Anakin not overpowering him does make him weak because Obi-Wan has already demonstrated the ability to deal with superstrong opponants like Grievous.




So you admit Anakin defeated a swordsman beyond Achilles? Excellent.





Wins another what? Another round of failing? Its not hard Quan, you're the only one participating in that game.






http://img.ponibooru.org/images/60/6073055ba3bd725cf6c67cf6cbd873c9 Your point was stupid.


Yoda was definitely his superior hence him fleeing the scene out of cowardice.

Achilles' awesome skill will definitely ward off Anakin's attacks. Watch Troy you can see him toy with highly skilled warriors if you don't believe me. Jango Fett can also give Obi a run for his money yet no force powers and someone of notable skill.

Obi shows he isn't anywhere near Grievous in terms of strength. That was obvious when he hit him. It's not even close nor did Obi have anything resembling super strength against Anakin and vice versa. Two scrubby boys wrestling around.

No, I admitted he defeated Dooku not that Dooku is beyond Achilles.

Uhm, you use double standards left and right somehow being tired or fatigued only affects Anakin's judgment not Obi's.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
This is a debate between you and Borbarad, but I can't help but respond to that last post.





"Of all empires of earth in Troy"?

What?

You mean Mycenae and a coalition of Greek states vs. the city-state of Troy?

Not exactly "all empires of earth"...These were the elite empires in the movie. It was pretty clear Achilles was by far the best warrior on the planet. Second place was a mountain away from him in terms of skill and awareness.
And he lost to Obi as well. With regards to the elite he was far from the top.


I posted a youtube link a bit ago. I can't remember which thread.


Achilles numbers weren't impressive but the point is he easily won. Anakin needed superior numbers which tipped the scales of battle in his side's favor.

Yes, Anakin just like Achilles stomps through canon fodder so there's no real advantage there.

When you see the youtube video he knows and can parry attacks coming from different angles while fighting off people in sword fights as well.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Wait, I remember something about that.

Do you have a vid of that throw?

If I remember that scene properly, yes, Achilles would be superhuman. Very superhuman, in fact. Show me the vid and I can help support your case.



Get your own lines, bub. uhuh



I, as well. He argued for HP peeps long before it was "safe" to do so...and quite masterfully. He accomplished, with the same points that RJ used, in one post what RJ couldn't do for dozens of pages. 313



I, as well. I might look for his feats on youtube and post them all up if I have the time and energy it was a long day.

Originally posted by quanchi112
These were the elite empires in the movie. It was pretty clear Achilles was by far the best warrior on the planet. Second place was a mountain away from him in terms of skill and awareness.
And he lost to Obi as well. With regards to the elite he was far from the top.

No, you have nothing to make such an assumption. If they were contemporaries, I could argue that Arjuna was the greatest warrior on earth. Nevertheless, I will admit Achilles was far superior to the rest of his peers.

And "far from the top." No...his loss was a combination of a severely wracked mental state + Lucas PIS .

While in "teh zone!," he thrashed Dooku. In this state, he's just behind Yoda, Mace, and Sidious, making him literally the fourth most powerful warrior in an entire galaxy (Do you understand what I'm saying? Galaxy much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much bigger than the Earth).



Lovely...want to tell me what the "superhuman" feat was?




Achilles had his Mymidons. Even if Anakin had other Jedi, they were "impossibly outnumbered," as Dooku stated, by blaster-fire wielding droids (y'know, guns fire bullets faster than arrows fire arrows). I don't understand what you mean by "superior numbers," when clearly the Separatists had many, many more droids.



That's not where I was getting at. You made a claim that Achilles was a better general, and I was telling you that Anakin became legendary because of his heroics in the Clone Wars.



Where is this video?

And how is this any more impressive than Anakin blocking blaster fire from droids in any direction. Or Obi-Wan and Yoda against elite Clones in the Jedi Temple.

Even if you could argue that Achilles has natural battle instinct that comes as limited precognition, Anakin's is much more developed and advanced.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I might look for his feats on youtube and post them all up if I have the time and energy it was a long day.

You had better look it up (when you're not tired), or else. uhuh

Here DDM and Korto

http://en.vidivodo.com/224899/achilles-leads-the-myrmidons

Originally posted by Robtard
Here DDM and Korto

http://en.vidivodo.com/224899/achilles-leads-the-myrmidons

Damn you. I'm at work and that link doesn't work.


I'll watch it in an hour.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Damn you. I'm at work and that link doesn't work.


I'll watch it in an hour.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtYWbMo4aZc&feature=related

Is the javelin throw supposed to the "superhuman" feat?

And the arrow that hits the back of the shield is supposed to be precognition?

Erm...okay.

ROTS Vader wins.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
No, you have nothing to make such an assumption. If they were contemporaries, I could argue that Arjuna was the greatest warrior on earth. Nevertheless, I will admit Achilles was far superior to the rest of his peers.

And "far from the top." No...his loss was a combination of a severely wracked mental state + Lucas PIS .
Okease don't start with the excuses. What's the point of debating if only their high showings count ? It's like saying their defeats/low moments suddenly didn't happen. Anakin wasn't able to best him either way and had more than enough time to do so against an inferior opponent.
I don't judge it based on this I judge based on movie verse. Whether a movie verse is the size of earth or the galaxy I gauge these warriors where they fit among the elites of each respective universe.



If someone else doesn't post it I will. Achilles didn't have many others and none were anywhere near close to his caliber on his boat. Wasn't Windu present along with Obi Wan I mean some of the baddest men in the galaxy. The laser fire doesn't seem anywhere near as fast as bullets and arguably is faster than arrows.

Most of it happened off screen. Not saying he isn't a force to be reckoned with but not to the extent Achilles was in his verse.

Youtube.

The massive landscape of what he was doing while fighting men in front of him and being aware of what's happening around him as in spears and arrows coming at his person.

Anakin's precog failed against Obi who even tried warning him.

That's not a javelin, that's a thrusting spear, boy.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Is the javelin throw supposed to the "superhuman" feat?

And the arrow that hits the back of the shield is supposed to be precognition?

Erm...okay.

ROTS Vader wins. He wasn't even looking in the direction of the archer and was fighting those who got in his way. I've seen far worse catch Vader off guard and defeat him.

How hard is it to cut through gold?

***READ MY WHOLE DAMN POST!***

I saw that scene, finally, on Youtube.


I need a high resolution movie and I'll calculate the speed of the spear throw.

Eyeball estimate: it was between 150-220 yards and the spearthrow is at about 200-400 km/h.


Blaster bolts range from 60 km/h (some closer quarters scenes like the trash compactor scene or the pre-"Obi Wan vs. GG scene) to 400 km/h via Jango's pistols (Jango was supposed to have some above quality "guns" so it should make sense that his bolts are faster). I believe we agreed on an average of 200 km/h to use in vs.threads (Jaden and I). So, knowing that...and know that Ki-Adi-Mundi was overwhelmed by 4-5 troopers firing at once, it's estimated that two dudes with hand guns (using high-velocity rounds), would be able to overwhelm battle precog from even the best Jedi Masters. (2 dudes firing hand guns at the same time would be equivalent to 6 clone troopers firing at once...due to speed of the "ballastic"...I know bolts are ballastics...but it's the same thing for the comparison).



Is 200-400 km/h > 6 * 200 km/h?


No. Achilles cannot overwhelm Anakin's battle precog with an uber fast spear throw.


Keep in mind that battle precog is NOT farseeing (which I've seen confused in MVF vs. debates many many times).


So, anyway, if someone has an HD video, I am more than willing to do a frame by frame and give an accurate speed/velocity of the spear throw.



We could make it more complex and tie in wind-resistance at STP (seems difficult but it's not: just use Fd = (1/2)*Da*(v^2)*Cd*A) * and then come up with the initial throwing velocity.


We know the mass (masses) of a thrusting spear(s) from bronze age/classical ages. We could use that to compare it to the initial velocity of a javelin throw in the olympics and compare that to peak humans to see how far into superhuman he really is IF both sides agree that we need to go further into this feat from Achilles.




I am not done: we can also do a "strikes per second" count. If each side wants to provide an HD video of each side's FASTEST strikes per second video, I will do a frame by frame on those, too, and come up with who is faster. Some would argue that Achilles not only strikes fast, he strikes smartly...making that comparison nulled. I believe that Anakin does the same...as does every Jedi (no one can argue that Jedi are not awesomely surgical in their strikes). So I think it's a fair comparison...even against an character like Achilles.


*I dislike it when people use jargon so here are the goods:

STP = standard temperature and pressure
Fd= force of drag
A = orthographic projection
Cd = drag coefficient
Da = density of the fluid (in this case, it's the atmosphere of the Earth)
v = velocity of stuff...

Originally posted by Mindset
How hard is it to cut through gold?

I know what you're talking about: the Apollo statue decap from Achilles.


That wasn't a clean cut so it would not reall work as cutting. It's a sheer force, technically...which is much more difficult to calculate. So much so that I'm not willing to do so because it would take me too long and I would just end up getting something wrong. Astner has access to MatLab...so we could ask him.

IIRC Gold is a notoriously soft metal.