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Achilles has one spear, his shield, and one sword. Legolas is armed with his trusty bow and arrows. It's like the movies no matter how often he shoots an arrow he never runs out. The fight starts 30 feet apart. Achilles wants the glory of killing the guy with the highest body count out of the fellowship. Winner ?

I added that extra line...did you see it?

Originally posted by Korto Vos
I added that extra line...did you see it? You have to admit though even the dwarf was killing heavily armored orcs like it was going out of style. Achilles would have mopped the floor with them as well.

Quanchi, this:

Blooms kills Pitt

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Quanchi, this:

Blooms kills Pitt If the fight starts out with him looking and aiding his gf then I can see Legolas winning as well. If Achilles is taking a crap I can see Legolas winning then as well but I can't see him winning with Achilles ready for combat and focusing on him.

Bloom was such a coward in that film. I hate thinking of that role it weirdly hurts Legolas in my eyes.

Legolas snipes Achilles's ankle while he's running at him and it's all over.

Originally posted by The Silent Hero
Legolas snipes Achilles's ankle while he's running at him and it's all over. How is that happening based on Achilles feats ?

I mean Achilles's lifesaver is his shield. But if he needs to close down the distance between him and the Elf, he has to break free from shield-cover and rush forward; this would be the time for Legolas to spam-fire arrows at the heel.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
I mean Achilles's lifesaver is his shield. But if he needs to close down the distance between him and the Elf, he has to break free from shield-cover and rush forward; this would be the time for Legolas to spam-fire arrows at the heel. Achilles knocked out an arrow out of midair with his sword in which he wasn't even looking in the general direction of.

Achilles is more impressive to me.

He would have beaten all the Orcs alone.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Achilles knocked out an arrow out of midair with his sword in which he wasn't even looking in the general direction of. When was this?

It doesn't matter anyway. From 30' Achilles has to close distance and run at him, after flinging his spear futilely of course. He can't cover his entire body with his shield, so he'll probably want to defend his torse/head.

Legolas snipes his ankles and it's all over.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You have to admit though even the dwarf was killing heavily armored orcs like it was going out of style. Achilles would have mopped the floor with them as well.

Gimli actually beats Legolas in the kill count.

Originally posted by The Silent Hero
When was this?

It doesn't matter anyway. From 30' Achilles has to close distance and run at him, after flinging his spear futilely of course. He can't cover his entire body with his shield, so he'll probably want to defend his torse/head.

Legolas snipes his ankles and it's all over. Grieves.

Originally posted by Mindset
Grieves. They were made of leather I believe, might as well not be there for all the difference it will make.

Achilles' sole defense here is his shield. At the rate Legolas can fire those arrows, and with that accuracy, Achilles will know that he can't break from cover to throw the spear. Legolas is also accurate enough to target Achilles' legs. Given the size of his shield, Killees' extremities are very exposed. In his match against Boagrius, the shield covers just above the tip of his helmet down to his pectorals. That's a lot of abdomen, pelvis, and legs for Legolas to target.

Assuming even that Achilles' shield can withstand all those arrows, it will be a very, very slow advance toward Legolas--and that's assuming that Achilles' can block every shot. Which I doubt.


I'd give this to Legolas, at least 8/10 times. Maybe Achy can huck his spear and take Legolas with him a few times.

Really?

They only start 30 feet apart. That takes like 2-3 seconds to cover at most. Which means he has to survive at most 3 arrows and thats being generous.

And Legolas won't move? I'm not impressed enough by Achilles' speed to say he'll be dodging Legolas' arrows. Especially at 30 feet. Legolas clearly knows armor/defenses. He won't be shooting for the part where the shield goes. He'll be shooting the ankle or thigh. The shields in that movie were small. Give Achilles' a shield the size of the Spartans' (though nor bronze) and I'll be inclined toward him winning. But if not, I'm siding with Legolas.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
And Legolas won't move?

If he is running, he isn't shooting arrows. If he isn't shooting, the gap will close.

And yes in the movies, Legolas does just stand there, except he usually kills his targets with one arrow, and switches to using an arrow as a melee weapon if they get close.

Fair enough, though I'm still heartily convinced that he'll pop an arrow in to Achilles' Achilles before time's up.

Originally posted by The Silent Hero
When was this?

It doesn't matter anyway. From 30' Achilles has to close distance and run at him, after flinging his spear futilely of course. He can't cover his entire body with his shield, so he'll probably want to defend his torse/head.

Legolas snipes his ankles and it's all over. Why does he have to cover his entire body ? The guy was easily blocking arrows and knocking them out of the air with his sword. The only reason his achilles was hit was because of the position of his body with him being completely unaware of the situation. Originally posted by ares834
Gimli actually beats Legolas in the kill count. When ?

Legolas most certainly isn't gonna shoot Achilles in the ankle while Achilles is facing Legolas.

He will block and deflect all arrows shot at him while approaching.
Then Legolas will be forced to use blades where Achilles takes him down.

The problem is Legolas doesn't even get his blades in this fight so it's even easier.

Originally posted by The Silent Hero
They were made of leather I believe, might as well not be there for all the difference it will make. The grieves deflected Hector's sword.

It has metal on top of leather.

Legolas has punched through orc iron(steel?) armor, Achilles' bronze and leather shouldn't pose too much trouble. Not that it matters, Elf can place an arrow just about wherever he wants, while on the move too.

Originally posted by Robtard
Legolas has punched through orc iron(steel?) armor, Achilles' bronze and leather shouldn't pose too much trouble. Not that it matters, Elf can place an arrow just about wherever he wants, while on the move too. Achilles can knock arrows out of the air with his sword while looking at the sunset.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Achilles can knock arrows out of the air with his sword while looking at the sunset.

Legolas is a far superior archer than any of the Trojans and he can deliver them in rapid-fire while surfing down some steps on a shield. Achilles has little chance here.

Originally posted by Robtard
Legolas is a far superior archer than any of the Trojans and he can deliver them in rapid-fire while surfing down some steps on a shield. Achilles has little chance here. Achilles is far superior to the cannon fodder even Gimli was mowing down in massive numbers. Achilles is on another level and can throw a spear practically as far as Legolas can shoot an arrow.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Achilles can knock arrows out of the air with his sword while looking at the sunset.
Look, when the battle starts Achilles will (after tossing his spear) likely raise his shield up and charge. That leaves his legs exposed, unless you can realistically picture him brandishing his blade around his ankles to block arrows, while on the move? Or the other way, equally impractical, he puts his shield low and defends his upper body with a blade. His extremities are exposed here no matter what he does.

Legolas has at least three shots and he never misses, and the distance gets closer with every step Achilles takes so it's harder to "swat arrows".

Can someone point out where in the movie Achilles does this btw??? I don't want to go through the whole movie.

Originally posted by Mindset
The grieves deflected Hector's sword.

It has metal on top of leather. It was a glancing blow, an elvish arrow meanwhile would go through like a bullet, I mean they pierce thick Uruk breastplates so what's a strip of metal.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Achilles is far superior to the cannon fodder even Gimli was mowing down in massive numbers. Achilles is on another level and can throw a spear practically as far as Legolas can shoot an arrow.

LoL, masturbate Achilles some more, it's sad and hilarious.

Legolas(in TTT) shot an Orc off a Warg that was much farther away than Achilles could ever dream of tossing a spear.

Watch the battle against Boigrius. Achilles covers ground very fast and is in close combat within seconds.

The same will happen to Legolos

Originally posted by The Silent Hero
Look, when the battle starts Achilles will (after tossing his spear) likely raise his shield up and charge. That leaves his legs exposed, unless you can realistically picture him brandishing his blade around his ankles to block arrows, while on the move? Or the other way, equally impractical, he puts his shield low and defends his upper body with a blade. His extremities are exposed here no matter what he does.

Legolas has at least three shots and he never misses, and the distance gets closer with every step Achilles takes so it's harder to "swat arrows".

Can someone point out where in the movie Achilles does this btw??? I don't want to go through the whole movie.

It was a glancing blow, an elvish arrow meanwhile would go through like a bullet, I mean they pierce thick Uruk breastplates so what's a strip of metal. No, it wasn't a glancing blow, he swung the sword and Achilles blocked it with his grieve.

Originally posted by Robtard
Legolas(in TTT) shot an Orc off a Warg that was much farther away than Achilles could ever dream of tossing a spear. That's like saying Bullseye can't hit DareDevil because he can't miss shots. Yet Daredevil saw each shot coming and dodged them good.

Achilles' shield will ensure the first shot from Legolas misses.
The thrown spear will ensure Legolas must evade before firing his next shot.
By the time Legolas shoots his second arrow, Achilles is already close.

Those arrows are still as fast as as normal arrows. Achilles wins this simply due to Legolas having no close combat capabilities.

Achilles wins. Arrows move at a finite speed regardless of the archer's skill and always move in a straight line, regardless of the archers skill. Ergo, Legolas' archery skills here will be useless. Achilles will block every shot with his sheild than lop his head off.

Originally posted by The Silent Hero
Look, when the battle starts Achilles will (after tossing his spear) likely raise his shield up and charge. That leaves his legs exposed, unless you can realistically picture him brandishing his blade around his ankles to block arrows, while on the move? Or the other way, equally impractical, he puts his shield low and defends his upper body with a blade. His extremities are exposed here no matter what he does.

Legolas has at least three shots and he never misses, and the distance gets closer with every step Achilles takes so it's harder to "swat arrows".

Can someone point out where in the movie Achilles does this btw??? I don't want to go through the whole movie.

It was a glancing blow, an elvish arrow meanwhile would go through like a bullet, I mean they pierce thick Uruk breastplates so what's a strip of metal. Uhm, Legolas taking out mere fodder and you exaggerating him shooting multiple arrows all over his body aren't making it a credible point. Achilles can parry arrows with just his sword. He can also dodge the arrows as he's dodged spears as well.

Achilles can block them and Legolas missed hitting Gandalf the white so there goes he never misses argument. Legolas tears through fodder but Achilles makes great warriors look like fodder unlike Legolas.

Post what ? When he knocks an arrow out of the air with his sword ?

Originally posted by Robtard
LoL, masturbate Achilles some more, it's sad and hilarious.

Legolas(in TTT) shot an Orc off a Warg that was much farther away than Achilles could ever dream of tossing a spear. Arguing Achilles wins because he does isn't being a fanboy. If I was the only one arguing against a mountain of posters maybe that makes sense but here I am in the majority so let go of your personal rivalry with me due my superiority.

I said almost. It shows Achilles strength is far greater than Legolas.

Originally posted by Placidity
If he is running, he isn't shooting arrows.

Really?
Apparently, he can put out 2 arrows per second with pin-point accuracy, while skating down stairs on an infantry shield, as demonstrated in The Two Towers, yet, he can't walk and shoot at the same time? Funny concept.

One needs to understand that Legolas had centuries to practice his skills with a bow and has done so in various battles. Throughout the films, he doesn't even miss once, while delivering shots from virtually impossible positions with likewise unbelieveable accuracy.

Even if Achilles starts this just 30 feets away, he will look like a pincushion, before he can close the distance and even assuming that he is capable somehow making it into close quater combat with Legolas: the Elf has been shown to simple stab enemies with his arrows.

And while Achilles in the movie represents the peak of human combat ability of his time, Legolas abilities in terms of agility and cognition are clearly superhuman. That makes it hard to believe, that, even if Achilles should make it into the infight, he would be able to take down Legolas.

Though, he most likely ends up with arrows through his limbs before he even gets the chance to hit the elf.

@Borbarad-- We aren't saying he misses but his arrows can be blocked. Gandalf did so and quite easily.

Oh. Fun. Logical fallacies for starters.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Arguing Achilles wins because he does isn't being a fanboy.


You're right. That would be arguing in circles or a plain use of ipsedixitism. Fortunately, both don't win debates.



Appeal to majorities don't make sense - hence being another one of those "logical fallacies".



The only "superiority" you have demonstrated so far, is your superior ability to summon logical fallacies out of nowhere instead of delivering anything close to a reasonable argument.



Since we've seen Legolas killing Trolls and freaking Oliphants, I can only wonder, how "greater strenght" would be an issue here. The point is, that Achilles won't make it into melee range and even if he does, it's debateable whether or not he could hit Legolas (agility!) with a spear or a sword, while the elf might either stab him with an arrow or keep shooting in melee combat (both of which he has done before).

Originally posted by quanchi112
@Borbarad-- We aren't saying he misses but his arrows can be blocked. Gandalf did so and quite easily.

I didn't know that Achilles is capable of using magic now...

Originally posted by quanchi112

Post what ? When he knocks an arrow out of the air with his sword ? Yeah, I mean what scene or part in the movie did he do this I wanna know.

Originally posted by Borbarad
Oh. Fun. Logical fallacies for starters.



You're right. That would be arguing in circles or a plain use of ipsedixitism. Fortunately, both don't win debates.



Appeal to majorities don't make sense - hence being another one of those "logical fallacies".



The only "superiority" you have demonstrated so far, is your superior ability to summon logical fallacies out of nowhere instead of delivering anything close to a reasonable argument.



Since we've seen Legolas killing Trolls and freaking Oliphants, I can only wonder, how "greater strenght" would be an issue here. The point is, that Achilles won't make it into melee range and even if he does, it's debateable whether or not he could hit Legolas (agility!) with a spear or a sword, while the elf might either stab him with an arrow or keep shooting in melee combat (both of which he has done before).



I didn't know that Achilles is capable of using magic now... I never said being in the majority makes me right I said it goes against his claim I'm a fanboy because other people agree with my points and my outcome. Don't confuse what I stated or try to twist it around.

So Achilles easily knocking and blocking arrows out of the air while not even looking at them isn't proof to my point ? Well color me surprised.

Strength won't be the deciding factor this comes down to skill but seeing as how Achilles' skills with any weapon you place in his hands I think it's safe to say his feats are greater than Legolas'. Legolas' most impressive feats are taking out fodder whereas Achilles also easily takes out fodder. When you pit Legolas, Gimli, and Aragorn up against Gandalfl the white the combined lot of them looked inferior.

Doesn't bode well for your side at all.

There is no way Legolas' arrow stabbing move will have any effect on Achilles' abilities.

Legolas has no blade his only hope is the speed of his shooting and accuracy.

Achilles will repel the first or second arrow before throwing his spear.

By the time Legolas readjusts his grounding Achilles would already be near.

Originally posted by The Silent Hero
Yeah, I mean what scene or part in the movie did he do this I wanna know. 229 in.

He is fighting men right in front of him while casually blocking and knocking out two arrows aimed for him. he's focusing on what's in front of him as well not just one opponent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyuknIqvofk

Legolas gets hit with the jumpstab

Originally posted by quanchi112
229 in.

He is fighting men right in front of him while casually blocking and knocking out two arrows aimed for him. he's focusing on what's in front of him as well not just one opponent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyuknIqvofk


Those were spears.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Those were spears. No, they weren't.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I never said being in the majority makes me right I said it goes against his claim I'm a fanboy because other people agree with my points and my outcome. Don't confuse what I stated or try to twist it around.


No. You said that being right makes you right, which is kind of funny. Then you sited the "majority" to support the notion that you can't be a fanboy. This in a forum, in which people will argue even the most hopeless cases against characters, if they just dislike the characters enough - see any thread involving Potter characters here. So where was you point again?



Which he doesn't do. I've watched the clip you've posted, and it shows him blocking spears, with the exception of one arrow that - coincidentally - hits his shield, after he has put it back on his back. We don't see him going all "Scorpion King" and deflect arrows with his blade, I'm afraid.



Again, I have absolutely no idea, why you keep siting Gandalf. The guy is a magic user, for God's sake - and one of the most powerful present in the LotR universe, which are known for leveling armies on their own. Not even remotely compareable sitautions.

And of course, Legolas mostly downs "fodder", because that's the targets present to him in the LotR universe. They don't pit him up against really "skilled" opponent, but then again, he personaly kills an Oliphant and a Troll, with the first feat being totally out of question for Achilles.



Since your argument is based on nothing but your missinterpretation of on screen evidence, I'd say my side wins.

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, they weren't.

Yes. They were. Unless you want to assume, that the soldiers Achilles cuts down did attack him with arrows in their hands or jumped at him unarmed, in order to hinder his advance with their piled up bodies.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Those were spears. The first one looks like an arrow.

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, they weren't.

2.29 right? Are you talking about the arrows that hit his shield when he puts it on his back? Because other than that he just parries 2 spearmen and kills them. I don't see him knocking arrows out of the air with his sword at that point.

Originally posted by Mindset
The first one looks like an arrow.

Its the guys spear. You can see it in his hand after Achilles cuts him.

Nm, it's a spear.

Originally posted by the ninjak
That's like saying Bullseye can't hit DareDevil because he can't miss shots. Yet Daredevil saw each shot coming and dodged them good.

Achilles' shield will ensure the first shot from Legolas misses.
The thrown spear will ensure Legolas must evade before firing his next shot.
By the time Legolas shoots his second arrow, Achilles is already close.

Those arrows are still as fast as as normal arrows. Achilles wins this simply due to Legolas having no close combat capabilities.

Non sequitur response. I was responding to Quanchi saying Achilles could throw a spear almost as far as Legolas can shoot an arrow. Which is nothign more than him masturbating Achilles, as is his MO in here.

So I have no idea why you ranted. But you scripted, that's no way to win an argument. Legolas NEVER misses, no matter the distance, angle or what he's doing, be it standing, surfing down stairs or balancing on an Olyphant. So Achilles blocks one arrow with his shield, fine; that's likely possible, the second arrow delivered a split-second later hits him in tender spot; it's all down-hill from there.

Originally posted by Borbarad
No. You said that being right makes you right, which is kind of funny. Then you sited the "majority" to support the notion that you can't be a fanboy. This in a forum, in which people will argue even the most hopeless cases against characters, if they just dislike the characters enough - see any thread involving Potter characters here. So where was you point again?



Which he doesn't do. I've watched the clip you've posted, and it shows him blocking spears, with the exception of one arrow that - coincidentally - hits his shield, after he has put it back on his back. We don't see him going all "Scorpion King" and deflect arrows with his blade, I'm afraid.



Again, I have absolutely no idea, why you keep siting Gandalf. The guy is a magic user, for God's sake - and one of the most powerful present in the LotR universe, which are known for leveling armies on their own. Not even remotely compareable sitautions.

And of course, Legolas mostly downs "fodder", because that's the targets present to him in the LotR universe. They don't pit him up against really "skilled" opponent, but then again, he personaly kills an Oliphant and a Troll, with the first feat being totally out of question for Achilles.



Since your argument is based on nothing but your missinterpretation of on screen evidence, I'd say my side wins.



Yes. They were. Unless you want to assume, that the soldiers Achilles cuts down did attack him with arrows in their hands or jumped at him unarmed, in order to hinder his advance with their piled up bodies. My point was arguing for a character the majority agrees with wins isn't being a fanboy. That's only evident or more likely the case when it's one man vs. everyone else. I'm right you're wrong let's move on.

The first one could be a spear but the second definitely is an arrow and we can tell since it sticks in his shield. Also he put his shield where it needed to be while fighting men directly in front of him as opposed to the shield being in the right place at the right time.

Gandalf has to use the magic prior to the arrow hitting him which shows he has the reflexes to do so. The magic is irrelevant just like Achilles has the reflexes to do so while fighting other opponents in his path let alone just focusing on him.

He kills them eventually yes, but the one instance he's up against a skilled opponent in Gandalf he looks rather ineffective.

Unlike you I won't downplay someone's feats in order to persuade those to latch onto my side. Achilles wins.

Achilles makes the best fighters look pedestrian while Gandalf made Legolas, Gimli, and Aragorn combined look pedestrian.

Originally posted by Nephthys
2.29 right? Are you talking about the arrows that hit his shield when he puts it on his back? Because other than that he just parries 2 spearmen and kills them. I don't see him knocking arrows out of the air with his sword at that point. First one is probably a spear the second is definitely an arrow. It being a spear shows how incredibly strong he is to casually dismiss a spear as opposed to an arrow.

Originally posted by quanchi112
My point was arguing for a character the majority agrees with wins isn't being a fanboy. That's only evident or more likely the case when it's one man vs. everyone else. I'm right you're wrong let's move on.


Arguing for a character, based on the demonstrably false perception of an action of a character in a movie, would count as fanboyism, though. Or is that plain and simple idiocy.



He just parries two spears and stop arguing it. The arrow that lands in his shield is visibly thinner than the two spears he parries before. So you're wrong. Accept it and move on.



Gandalf is a godlike being, equipped with abilities well beyond that of mortals. And it's not irrelevant, that he used magic, because he could just have summoned an protective shield, similar to what he used against the Balrog, with the arrow being deflected by it, which would make his reflexes irrelevant. Please stop this nonsense. You're wrong, end of story.



Do you want to compare Achilles to Gandalf? Seriously? If not, your "argument" still doesn't make sense.



Unlike you, I don't need to make feats up in order to support my argument.

jQzO_rJUnkA

Here. Watch the #1 scene and accept that Achilles is nothing compared to Legolas. Hell. Scenes #2 and #3 also establish, that Legolas is, simple put, superhuman - unlike Achilles.



This is getting annoying. You essentially say this: "Because a godlike entity makes Gimli, Aragorn and Legolas look like pedestrians, Legolas is going to lose against a skilled mortal." Does that translate into a sound argument in your plane of existance, because it certainly doesn't in the realms of us feeble mortals, where logic is still used.

I'm trying to find these arrows people keep saying that he knocks aside, but all I see are spears being parried.

Spears, both of them. He does block an arrow with his shield though.

Originally posted by quanchi112
First one is probably a spear the second is definitely an arrow. It being a spear shows how incredibly strong he is to casually dismiss a spear as opposed to an arrow.

Both of them were spears.

And no, it doesn't.

Achilles will catch the arrows in his teeth then remove Legolas' head with his shield.

Legolas killed a Uruk with a shield, so he has shield-feats over Achilles too.

Originally posted by Borbarad
Arguing for a character, based on the demonstrably false perception of an action of a character in a movie, would count as fanboyism, though. Or is that plain and simple idiocy.
What have I falsely perceived ? be a little more specific.

He parries heavier shields while fighting opponents in front of him. He blocks an arrow with his shield. The arrow doesn't find his shield he moves his shield to block the arrow. So we know he's strong enough to easily parry spears and quick enough to easily block an arrow with his shield. Looks like I am winning.

Saying he's a godlike being when we've seen the Witch King easily trounce him and Saruman easily best him with tk which causes bruises and minor cuts is utterly hilarious. He still has to summon the shield. The shield isn't automatically in place unless you can prove it. Gandalf a character who needs an entire party to defeat a cave troll isn't what I would deem godlike but then again maybe this impresses you. To each their own I always say.


I am saying if Gandalf has the reflexes to do so and since we've already seen Achilles show reflexes to block arrows while engaging other men in swordfights then I'd say the evidence strongly leans towards my views. But then again you're the same poster who thinks throwing the word godlike in front of a character is a debating point.

Saying Achilles isn't superhuman when we see him throw spears, parry spears out of the air while fighting other men, or toy with the best fighters in Troy is completely absurd.

Legolas loses when his throat is cut so he's a mortal to just like Achilles. You trying to get into an adjective war to exaggerate Legolas isn't debating.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Both of them were spears.

And no, it doesn't. Not the one he blocked with his shield.

Originally posted by quanchi112
What have I falsely perceived ? be a little more specific.


Him blocking arrows with his swords, which he did never do.



Nope. That just looks as if you have no idea about fighting and physics. I'm not surprised by that fact, since you seem to be one of the kind of people that doesn't have an idea about many things. Just to give you an idea of what happens: He moves the spear sidewards, which doesn't require much strength at all, unless the guy holding a spear pushes it sidewards. Which would be illogical, since you want to trust forward with a spear, which is what the guys on screen do. Strength feat? Not seen.

He parries heavier shields? Seriously. What does the "heavyness" of the shield have to do with his ability to "parry" them? The shield simple clash, most likely without any strength put behind them, because shields aren't offensive weapons and his opponent were focused on nailing him down with their spears. Strength feat? Entirely nonexistant.

And the arrow, of course. He moves the shields on his back and when it's there, an arrow hits it from behind. Chalking that up to Achilles skill rather than coincidence, means you assume he is capable of precognition, because the arrow was most likely not even fired, when he put the shield there. As he clearly does not possess precognition, it is more reasonable to chalk the event up to coincidence. Feat for Achilles? Not present.

In short: You're wrong, you lose. And, just to add some spice: You now clearly exhibit fanboyish behaviour, which you tried to deny previously.



Not realizing, that the Witch King and Saruman are likewise superhuman beings is the only hilarious thing here. Gandalf is a magic user, that can literally destroy any ordinary being with ease - which would, just to clarify that for you, include Achilles.



Are we talking about the same Gandalf, who is also capable of defeating a Balrog on his own? Your lack of grasp on the LotR story makes me wonder, why you try to encoporate characters from that realm in your arguments or make cases against them. Gandalf happens to be a Maiar, which are angelic beings serving the Gods of the LotR world. Comparing them to mere mortals - as you keep doing - is utter nonsense.

And who knows what kind of magic Gandalf summoned. He blinds the trio upon meeting them, even before Legolas does lose an arrow at him, so there might be a shield already in place. The fact remains, that Gandalf doesn't react in the scene, but acts, which renders your argument void. End of story. You're - suprise - wrong again.




Holy mother of God.
First: As Gandalf is already visible using magic, before one of the trio makes a move, it is very well possible, that he summoned a shield or started to manipulate Legolas arrow, before it was even shot. Your argument about reflexes is thereby gone. Accept it and move on.

Secondly: We have already proven that Achilles doesn't deflect arrows. Handing in the previously defeated point once more, constitutes as argument ad nauseam, which is another logical fallacy. That aside, it makes you look like an utter moron.

Thirdly: The straw man at the end also serves you well. If you're aspiring the position as worst debater ever, that is. It doesn't help your argument and neither does it help to attack mine. In fact - provided your lack of knowledge in the field and your severe allergy against logic, you might want to stop posting before embarassing yourself further.



No. It's completely reasonable, as you keep missinterpreting the movie. He throws spears? Damn. He must be godlike. He parries spears out of the air? Holy shit. Where? I just see him parrying spears in the hands of soldiers he fights, which even I can do? Hardly superhuman. He toys with the best fighters in Troy. Great. Are those superhuman? I strongly doubt it.



Right. However. Demonstrating that Legolas is capable of combat related feats that Achilles will never be capable of shows his superiority over the greek hero. Hence, he will simple kill Achilles, who, as a human being, doesn't have anything to put him in a position to defeat the elf. He will end up as a human pincushion on or the other way around. End of story.

Achilles is not a regular human.

It was alluded to that he was the same as his mythological counterpart.

Originally posted by Borbarad
Him blocking arrows with his swords, which he did never do. I already acknowledged it's more impressive with spears than arrows. I already pointed out he blocked an arrow easily with his shield.


No, that's false. We see the force of a spear thrust multiple times in the movie and elite strength is required to casually knock it away a mere microsecond before it impales you. You stopping to insulting because you're losing a debate is an insecurity you must learn to keep in check. Defense mechanism or not it's not appreciated.
I said he parries heavier spears. Spears are heavier than arrows. What's hard to understand here ? It requires more strength to alter an object of greater weight with the force it's coming in then say something that weighs a lot less like say an arrow.
Chalking it up to skill is plainly obvious. The guy is on another level and to be incredibly skilled with these reflexes doesn't mean you have to have precog just great battlefield awareness due to his experience. The entire movie shoves it down our throats how great of a warrior he is. You failing to get it shows a comprehension problem I am glad I don't share.
Keep making baseless claims and personal attacks it's a sign of losing a debate.

Saruman is stabbed to death by Wormtongue. How superhuman of him. The Witch King along with the other Nazgul are handily defeated by Aragorn wildly swinging a torch and a sword. Be honest have you seen the movies at all ? I mean a woman and a hobbit manage to kill the Witch King yet you're saying he's SUPERZHUUMANZ.


Yes, after a whole day's worth of fighting and a storm charged sword blast. That's a book thing nowhere in the movie is this ever gone into or even remotely covered. There's a difference, friend. Keep the adjectives coming.
Show Gandalf ever having a shield in place prior to. He reacts just like he burns the sword. His reflexes make Legolas look rather unimpressive.

Wrong he reacts accordingly after their attacks showing his reflexes are greater than theirs. If he reacted prior to Aragorn's sword would have burned prior to their combined attack.

He doesn't need to parry them he can easily block them. He also has shown to easily do so while not even looking at the archer so with only half his focus on the archer he does so. Doesn't look good for a guy whom Gandalf made look incredibly pedestrian.

Says the guy who ignores the movies, throws adjectives around constantly like saying Maiar is an actual debating point, ignores Gandalf's defeats, ignores Witch King's loss to Aragorn, ignores Achilles feats, I'd say it's a compliment.

Achilles has shown he can definitely take on a skilled archer and not only that but do so while cutting through fodder along the way. One opponent against Achilles has never failed well and Legolas only fares well against foes Gimli slays easily as well.

Can Gimli defeat Achilles now ?

Originally posted by Mindset
Achilles is not a regular human.

It was alluded to that he was the same as his mythological counterpart. Not only that but his feats show him to be superhuman. Saying someone wins because they are so and so has never been an actual point. It's rather concessionary talk imo.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Not the one he blocked with his shield.

He didn't block it. It hit his shield. It was luck.

Originally posted by Nephthys
He didn't block it. It hit his shield. It was luck. He moved the shield to do so. Achilles wasn't lucky with anything he did. He was precise and the best warrior out of the movie. You know he did so on purpose.

I can see him putting the shield there for the purpose of blocking any arrows, but not necessarily that arrow at that exact moment. Good timing on his part.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He moved the shield to do so. Achilles wasn't lucky with anything he did. He was precise and the best warrior out of the movie. You know he did so on purpose.

He put it on his back. He doesn't even acknowledge the arrow. If he was trying to block it why not just raise his shield? Since the shield is in his left hand and the arrow comes from his left it would have been much easier and more efficient to just raise his shield a few feet. Plus, from the angle it would have been impossible for him to see it anyway.

No need to take up Quanchi's debating tactic of downplaying, Achilles moved the shield to his back to block the arrow. He's a bad-ass fighter with superb battle-awareness; he's not winning her though.

I think Lucien is right in this. He put it there to block arrows, but not that arrow. Simply good timing.

Originally posted by Nephthys
He put it on his back. He doesn't even acknowledge the arrow. If he was trying to block it why not just raise his shield? Since the shield is in his left hand and the arrow comes from his left it would have been much easier and more efficient to just raise his shield a few feet. Plus, from the angle it would have been impossible for him to see it anyway. He knew placing his shield there would block it otherwise why the f do it ? It's obvious his skill didn't have him doing random lucky things. Movies don't have to jive with reality it's pretty obvious he was superhuman.Originally posted by Robtard
No need to take up Quanchi's debating tactic of downplaying, Achilles moved the shield to his back to block the arrow. He's a bad-ass fighter with superb battle-awareness; he's not winning her though. Oh so now you want to be my apprentice.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I think Lucien is right in this. He put it there to block arrows, but not that arrow. Simply good timing.

Is it possible? Yes. But how the fight looks, it seems he's just a bad-ass fighter with superb battle-awareness.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Oh so now you want to be my apprentice.

Funny. Achilles still loses to the elf despite said arrow-feat.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I already acknowledged it's more impressive with spears than arrows. I already pointed out he blocked an arrow easily with his shield.

And you have been told, that you're wrong here again, since the spears aren't thrown at thim.



Would you please stop trying to argue fundamental laws of physics, just to construct feats for your character of choice? If I throw or otherwisely move an object at your direction, you can easily alter it's direction, by applying a force to its side. Common sense should tell you that and I find it hard to believe, that I have to explain that to you. This is exactly what Achilles does to the spears and any human would be capable of replicating this show of "elite strength".



The point is, that the spears are not thrown at them. And your lack of knowledge in the physics department becomes even more apparent here. The key factor here is not weight but speed. Obviously, an arrow shot at you has more speed than a spear thrown at you and is, therefore, harder to deflect. In case, you still don't understand the concept: It's harder to dodge a bullet shot from a gun, than dodging a spear thrown at you, despite the bullet does weigh far less than the spear. Reason? Speed.



How does he react on an arrow not even shot when he makes his move? Answer and stop attempting to dodge the point. Either Achilles does possess precognition (and you have prove for that), or he is just lucky in that particular scene.



Wow. Failing to miss Gandalf destroying Sarumans staff and casting him out of the order must have been hard work. The Witch King is killed by a weapon specifically designed to kill him. Another detail you missed. The Nazghul are defeated by Aragorn? Seriously? I just saw them driven off by fire, because they were spirits bound to their clothes, which means one could "disembody" them, but not "kill" them. Nevermind.



Oh. It's a book thing? Hardly.
Gandalf drops down a rather large way and survives? How? By being a normal human? I don't think so. He lived for millenia, which he outright proclaims. Ordinary human? In his confrontation with the Balrog, he says that he wields the power of the sun and serves the Secret Fire, the latter being the power of Illuvater himself. He also mentions that he was called Olorin in the West. Not to mention his "resurrection". More than enough allusions to his rank and his origin. That you fail to see them is not my problem.



uqB-o-R5BHQ

He is using magic several seconds before Legolas shoots at him. Just as I said.



He is already blinding them, when Aragorn turns around, which means that he is using magic at them already, before one of the trio makes a move at him. So, as usual, you're wrong.



Right. He will easily block Legolas arrows. The video I've previously posted shows Orcs being thrown backwards when hit by an arrow of the elf, showing the force put behind them. Achilles supposed skill in deflecting arrows is still nonexistant and so he will likely catch one, if Legolas aims properly. Also there still is the fact, that Gandalf uses magic at Legolas, before Legolas shoots and ignoring that doesn't get you anywhere. You have no argument.



Since I'm the person who does toss in evidence that constantly proves your interpretation of the movies wrong, you shouldn't really accuse me of ignoring the movies. Especially, since you constantly fail to grasp the context for all those scenes you're talking about.



Oh. He did?
I've never seen him taking on an archer with even compareable skill to Legolas. The one time where he does, he ends up with several arrows sticking in his body. Looks bad for your claims to Achilles "battle awareness" and "reflexes", huh? And giant freaking Oliphants are easy to slay? Trolls? Really? Pass what you're smoking.



Can you serve anything but red herrings?

Originally posted by Robtard
Funny. Achilles still loses to the elf despite said arrow-feat. He doesn't lose as he has his shield which can easily block arrows.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He doesn't lose as he has his shield which can easily block arrows.


Block the first arrow(singular), yes; the 2-3 that follow a heartbeat later find soft spots, Achilles' eyes, thighs, hand, shoulder or bicep.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He doesn't lose as he has his shield which can easily block arrows.

http://www.solarnavigator.net/images/troy_achilles_brad_pitt.jpg

I wonder, how he would manage to cover his entire body with that shield. With his Gandalf level magic?

Originally posted by Robtard
Block the first arrow(singular), yes; the 2-3 that follow a heartbeat later find soft spots, Achilles' eyes, thighs, hand, shoulder or bicep. He won't get off more than 3 arrows before he closes the gap. He can move his shield to any part of his body with his full attention if he can do so while fighting other warriors and not even looking at the archer from the feat I provided.

Originally posted by Borbarad
http://www.solarnavigator.net/images/troy_achilles_brad_pitt.jpg

I wonder, how he would manage to cover his entire body with that shield. With his Gandalf level magic? His battle awareness will defend the body part Legolas is aiming for. Pretty obvious.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He won't get off more than 3 arrows before he closes the gap. He can move his shield to any part of his body with his full attention if he can do so while fighting other warriors and not even looking at the archer from the feat I provided.


Three is more than enough to kill and Achilles is not blocking an arrow to his face and a heartbeat later blocking one to his thigh. Since you failed to notice, Legolas has legs and can move about by his own power, thereby keeping the gap, not that he'd need to, he's brutally lethal with his twin knifes.

Legolas wins, easily too. Nothing new in here, not even your same failed points, no matter how many times you repeat them.

Originally posted by Borbarad
And you have been told, that you're wrong here again, since the spears aren't thrown at thim. How do you know the spears aren't thrown at him ?


This along with the spear tossing feats shows him to have super strength. You can claim otherwise but the movie made it pretty clear.


The difference is simple the travel of speed isn't as great going from a spear tossed in the world of troy to an arrow as opposed to a bullet and an arrow.

Skill and battle awareness. It isn't called precog because that's a Star Wars only term. He wasn't aware of Paris' arrows until they struck him which is something I would imagine precog would clue him in on. It isn't the same thing.



Wow. Failing to miss Gandalf destroying Sarumans staff and casting him out of the order must have been hard work. The Witch King is killed by a weapon specifically designed to kill him. Another detail you missed. The Nazghul are defeated by Aragorn? Seriously? I just saw them driven off by fire, because they were spirits bound to their clothes, which means one could "disembody" them, but not "kill" them. Nevermind.
Gandalfl was more powerful than Saruman the second time around. Saruman didn't have any magical protections and Gandalf would be affected in the same manner if he had been stabbed in the same manner. The Witch King doesn't have to be killed to be defeated. Being beaten by a hobbit and a woman isn't impressive no matter how you want to sell it. Yes, the Nazgul were defeated by Aragorn you don't have to kill your opponent to defeat them. You are trying to claim winning is only when you kill your opponent which isn't always the case.

I didn't say he was a normal human he has powers a normal human doesn't have access to. That's vague adjectives which really don't prove anything. We've seen that humans, hobbits, dwarves, and elves can affect these beings.

Yes, but still blocks the arrow with his reflexes and magic.


Yes, but using the bright light doesn't mean all magical attacks are taking place at the same time.



Right. He will easily block Legolas arrows. The video I've previously posted shows Orcs being thrown backwards when hit by an arrow of the elf, showing the force put behind them. Achilles supposed skill in deflecting arrows is still nonexistant and so he will likely catch one, if Legolas aims properly. Also there still is the fact, that Gandalf uses magic at Legolas, before Legolas shoots and ignoring that doesn't get you anywhere. You have no argument.



Since I'm the person who does toss in evidence that constantly proves your interpretation of the movies wrong, you shouldn't really accuse me of ignoring the movies. Especially, since you constantly fail to grasp the context for all those scenes you're talking about.
Achilles is strong enough not to be thrown back. We also see him casually block an arrow as well without his full focus. legolas crushing or hurting mere fodder isn't proof of anything. It's like me saying look at Achilles here easily maul these two fodder guys that's what happens to Legolas. You incorrectly argued all magical attacks were in place in unison which isn't the case at all.


You skew and ignore evidence unlike me.

Achilles can block arrows while taking on multiple warriors so obviously with his full attention he can do so considering on an entire battlefield he wasn't hit by an arrow in combat mode. Achilles also doesn't die immediately and resists multiple arrows from Paris. He was there to protect the girl and without this along with the first arrow going right into his achilles tendon he'd have killed Paris.

You can't name one skilled opponent legolas has ever killed in battle.

Originally posted by Robtard
Three is more than enough to kill and Achilles is not blocking an arrow to his face and a heartbeat later blocking one to his thigh. Since you failed to notice, Legolas has legs and can move about by his own power, thereby keeping the gap, not that he'd need to, he's brutally lethal with his twin knifes.

Legolas wins, easily too. Nothing new in here, not even your same failed points, no matter how many times you repeat them. Not when he can easily block 3. Achilles can also throw his spear. You trying to dictate what happens and when isn't actual debating. I have provided proof of Achilles easily blocking an arrow while not even focusing on the archer.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Not when he can easily block 3. Achilles can also throw his spear. You trying to dictate what happens and when isn't actual debating. I have provided proof of Achilles easily blocking an arrow while not even focusing on the archer.

Because blocking shit-loads of arrows from an archer as skilled and fast as Legolas is something Achilles is seen doing? No, it isn't. He blocked one arrow and while it was very impressive; it's not enough to block multiples from an archer of Legolas' caliber, considering his speed and 100% accuracy.

Throw his spear? LoL, the 2 seconds it takes Achilles to coil-back and launch his spear means he leaves himself open to an arrow. Good job, you just killed Achilles again.

Cut all your dancing and bullshit away; your argument is: "Achilles was able to kill canon fodder and block one arrow from an archer no where close to Legolas' league, but he wins anyways."

Originally posted by Robtard
Because blocking shit-loads of arrows from an archer as skilled and fast as Legolas is something Achilles is seen doing? No, it isn't. He blocked one arrow and while it was very impressive; it's not enough to block multiples from an archer of Legolas' caliber, considering his speed and 100% accuracy.

Throw his spear? LoL, the 2 seconds it takes Achilles to coil-back and launch his spear means he leaves himself open to an arrow. Good job, you just killed Achilles again.

Cut all your dancing and bullshit away; your argument is: "Achilles was able to kill canon fodder and block one arrow from an archer no where close to Legolas' league, but he wins anyways." Achilles isn't even looking or focusing on the archer so yes it's impressive. Imagine what he can do if he is coming after one opponent rather than taking on an entire army whose attacks can come in front of him and from every direction.

Legolas wasn't very effective against gandalf either. Achilles isn't some orc fodder like opponent either. Achilles can toss it pretty quickly and while moving can find the opening to do so due to his battle awareness and skill level.

Achilles slaughtered two opposing armies greatest men in combat. He made the first alpha male look like a beta male. The same end result is here. Legolas isn't up against an orc and when he went up against someone skilled like Gandalf he looked rather pathetic.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Achilles isn't even looking or focusing on the archer so yes it's impressive. Imagine what he can do if he is coming after one opponent rather than taking on an entire army whose attacks can come in front of him and from every direction.

Legolas wasn't very effective against gandalf either. Achilles isn't some orc fodder like opponent either. Achilles can toss it pretty quickly and while moving can find the opening to do so due to his battle awareness and skill level.

Achilles slaughtered two opposing armies greatest men in combat. He made the first alpha male look like a beta male. The same end result is here. Legolas isn't up against an orc and when he went up against someone skilled like Gandalf he looked rather pathetic.

The footmen he took on have nothing on Legolas and he didn't personally take on an "entire army", he only had to deal with a few at a time. Stop masturbating Achilles, it's sad. He's a bad-ass fighter; you're making him suck.

Gandalf the White is an extremely powerful wizard and he used magic to counter Legolas. Considering he did, it's a plus for Gandalf; not a negative towards Legolas. Stop trying to downplay.

Legolas would have taken out the hulking champion and Hector much quicker. You keep bringing up "orcs" like that was all Legolas defeated. Shitloads of Uruks, Wargs, at least one troll and an Olyphant with crew. Achilles likely wouldn't be able to kill the cave troll, let along the Olyphant, so your argument fails.

Originally posted by Robtard
The footmen he took on have nothing on Legolas and he didn't personally take on an "entire army", he only had to deal with a few at a time. Stop masturbating Achilles, it's sad. He's a bad-ass fighter; you're making him suck.

Gandalf the White is an extremely powerful wizard and he used magic to counter Legolas. Considering he did, it's a plus for Gandalf; not a negative towards Legolas. Stop trying to downplay.

Legolas would have taken out the hulking champion and Hector much quicker. You keep bringing up "orcs" like that was all Legolas defeated. Shitloads of Uruks, Wargs, at least one troll and an Olyphant with crew. Achilles likely wouldn't be able to kill the cave troll, let along the Olyphant, so your argument fails. He has his complete attention so the evidence supports he can block archers attacks.

Considering it's the only highly skilled opponent Legolas attacks it doesn't bode well for him.

Legolas took out fodder I mean tossing Gimli at a bunch of them worked and rather easily. Gimli was terrible. Achilles wins here. he's not fodder unlike 100 percent of Legolas' kills.

Originally posted by Robtard
at least one troll Thankfully no more than that.

For now...

Originally posted by quanchi112
He has his complete attention so the evidence supports he can block archers attacks.

Considering it's the only highly skilled opponent Legolas attacks it doesn't bode well for him.

Legolas took out fodder I mean tossing Gimli at a bunch of them worked and rather easily. Gimli was terrible. Achilles wins here. he's not fodder unlike 100 percent of Legolas' kills.

Yes, one arrow, the two that follow a moment later he can't. He's never dealt with Legolas' speed and accuracy.

You keep ignoring that Legolas did more than just fight orcs, it won't make it true though.

See above. Uruks, troll, Olyphant. Ignoring and ranting won't make it go away. Screen-feats > your needs, condolences.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Thankfully no more than that.

For now...

In His House at Spinner's End, banned RJ waits dreaming

Originally posted by ares834
In His House at Spinner's End, banned RJ waits dreaming

Besides HP, was that Cthulhu-esque? Nice.

So we all agree Achilles drags Legolas behind his chariot?

Legolas never showed super duper firing speed. At the most, he seems capable of shooting once every 8th of a second.

2:44 in

Hardly super speed arrows there.

And, furthermore: check this shit out:

1 minute in

You're seriously going to sit here and tell me that Legolas couldn't take down one naked dude with a torch who was running in a straight line toward him, before said naked dude could run like 50 ****ing feet, despite the fact that thousands of lives were counting on him, yet he's going to take down someone with a huge ass shield and who is also twice as nimble and fast as any orc, and who is also half the distance?

Please.

EDIT- Furthermore I don't even know why people are bringing up the orc and the mumukill. Legolas had the help of 8 other ****ing people against the troll who had already weakened the hell out of it; and as for the mumuk, using that as any kind of credible feat is like saying I can beat Mike Tyson in a boxing match because I "destroyed an entire air craft carrier with my bare hands" by sneaking aboard, killing its crew then setting its engines to overheat. Give me a break. The arguments presented in here have been terrible.

Few things, brah.

"shooting once every 8th of a second" That's 8 arrows per second, that is super-duper-fast and well above what Legolas can do.

That clip in Fellowship is hardly Legolas' fastest. While surfing down the stairs on the shield, he fired far faster.

That "naked dude" wasn't naked and Legolas did hit him twice, it was CIS/PIS to further the plot considering we've seen Legolas take other mother****ers out easily with his bow.

Killing the Olyphant and crew does show Achilles' strength, speed, accuracy and agility. All of which would factor in this fight. Your example didn't follow. Don't start downplaying like Quanchi, you're above that.

legolas is a dead man

there are no pacts between lions and elves

Originally posted by GRIMNIR
legolas is a dead man

there are no pacts between lions and elves

Legolas isn't a man, he's an elf.

Originally posted by Robtard
Yes, one arrow, the two that follow a moment later he can't. He's never dealt with Legolas' speed and accuracy.

You keep ignoring that Legolas did more than just fight orcs, it won't make it true though.

See above. Uruks, troll, Olyphant. Ignoring and ranting won't make it go away. Screen-feats > your needs, condolences. This is one of the worst arguments I've ever heard. Ever. Legolas has never dealt with anyone of Achilles' skill level. Ever. You're such a simple man.

Legolas kills cannon fodder. Legolas didn't solo the troll he had an entire group helping him. I know context is lost upon someone as simple as you but I can smell the elvish taint on your person.

Achilles closes in on him while blocking his arrows with his shield and then easily kills him. Achilles 10/10.

Originally posted by quanchi112
This is one of the worst arguments I've ever heard. Ever. Legolas has never dealt with anyone of Achilles' skill level. Ever. You're such a simple man.

Legolas kills cannon fodder. Legolas didn't solo the troll he had an entire group helping him. I know context is lost upon someone as simple as you but I can smell the elvish taint on your person.

Achilles closes in on him while blocking his arrows with his shield and then easily kills him. Achilles 10/10.


Nah. Achilles gets "Boromired" by Legolas.

/Thread

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Nah. Achilles gets "Boromired" by Legolas.

/Thread Based on ?

The rest of the pro-Elf arguments in this thread.

Achilles will have to break shield cover and rush towards Legolas, and in doing so will expose parts of his body that Legolas *will* exploit.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
The rest of the pro-Elf arguments in this thread.

Achilles will have to break shield cover and rush towards Legolas, and in doing so will expose parts of his body that Legolas *will* exploit. They were exaggerated and I did forget about Legolas failing to killing a Uruk Hai running in a straight line to blow up the wall in time. The guy was utterly exposed with no way to defend himself and with all that on the line Legolas utterly failed. /thread.

Originally posted by Robtard
"shooting once every 8th of a second" That's 8 arrows per second,One shot per every 8th of a second would be one shot per every .8 seconds. That's less than two shots in three seconds.

That's one scene out of the entire trilogy. Literally every other scene that shows Legolas firing his arrows shows him firing much slower. Why should I believe that that one scene shows Legolas' true firing speed when it's contradicted by literally every scene in the three films? Sounds like PIS to me, as it's completely inconsistent with the films.

How many non fodder orcs has Legolas taken out?



What feats of strength, speed, accuracy and agility did it show? How does this relate to fighting a single man who is faster, more agile, and stronger than anything Legolas fought on the Mumukill?

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
One shot per every 8th of a second would be one shot per every .8 seconds. That's less than two shots in three seconds.

Nah, an 8th means 1/8 (at least in this context when we are talking about fractions of a second) which means he would be firing an arrow every .125 seconds not .8 seconds.

An 8th in the context of "I'm ****ing saying it so I decide what the context of it is" dictates that an 8th is a shorthand I habitually use for saying 8/10th's.

Sorry for the confusion.

So you're saying he fires one every .8th of a second?

I'm saying he fires one every 8 minutes. My god, it's so simple.

That's a little much for an Elf.

Originally posted by quanchi112
This is one of the worst arguments I've ever heard. Ever. Legolas has never dealt with anyone of Achilles' skill level. Ever. You're such a simple man.

Legolas kills cannon fodder. Legolas didn't solo the troll he had an entire group helping him. I know context is lost upon someone as simple as you but I can smell the elvish taint on your person.

Achilles closes in on him while blocking his arrows with his shield and then easily kills him. Achilles 10/10.

Hahaaha, the reversal, you need new tactics.

Repeating BS and downplaying won't make Legolas' screen-feats go away.

Sure, if we go with your fantacized version of Achilles and your downplayed version of Legolas.

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
One shot per every 8th of a second would be one shot per every .8 seconds. That's less than two shots in three seconds.

That's one scene out of the entire trilogy. Literally every other scene that shows Legolas firing his arrows shows him firing much slower. Why should I believe that that one scene shows Legolas' true firing speed when it's contradicted by literally every scene in the three films? Sounds like PIS to me, as it's completely inconsistent with the films.

How many non fodder orcs has Legolas taken out?

What feats of strength, speed, accuracy and agility did it show? How does this relate to fighting a single man who is faster, more agile, and stronger than anything Legolas fought on the Mumukill?

You ****ed up the "8th" part and you ****ed up again with your math, but it's okay. But one shot in less than a second is enough here. That gives Legolas 3 (maybe 4)arrows before Legolas is in stabbing range.

Because we go with greatest feats here.

That question does not follow. Legolas has killed many an orc and Uruk with just one shot. Him not killing the torch-runner with two was a rarity and obviously done to further the plot.

Grabbing onto the swinging tusk and then climbing on it shows great strength and agility, killings the crew while bouncing up and down shows great accuracy. That scene also shows us that Legolas' bow has an extremely high amount of force behind it, as arrows fired were able to punch through the Oliphant's skull. He would need a very high level of strength to pull that bow back.

Everything in LoTR points to Achilles going down to arrows fired from a super-elf. Put Legolas is any of Achilles fight scenes, he does at least equally well. Put Achilles in several of Legolas fight scenes, he does worst or is dead. eg the Wargs; the Olyphant.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
The rest of the pro-Elf arguments in this thread.

Achilles will have to break shield cover and rush towards Legolas, and in doing so will expose parts of his body that Legolas *will* exploit. ...why?

He can run with his shield in front of him.

Originally posted by Mindset
...why?

He can run with his shield in front of him.

Any look totally gay? I don't think so.

Originally posted by Robtard

Put Achilles in several of Legolas fight scenes, he does worst or is dead. eg the Wargs; the Olyphant.

Legolas killing the Olyphant was indeed impressive, and one of the epic moments in the film for me. However, it is not a compelling argument, even a fallacy, to say because Achilles would not have been able to do the same feats thus he would lose to Legolas in an one on one fight.

All the skills Legolas may use in a more complex scenario have no bearing here. It is a plain environment, there are no opportunities for him to get creative. He literally just has to try to shoot Achilles within 2-3 seconds. Sure no one said he can't run, but thats not his style in the film, and it doesn't accomplish anything or change the argument.

Originally posted by Robtard
Any look totally gay? I don't think so.

He already boned Rose Byrne as proof of his manliness so I doubt he would care, especially if it meant not getting killed.

Originally posted by Robtard
Hahaaha, the reversal, you need new tactics.

Repeating BS and downplaying won't make Legolas' screen-feats go away.

Sure, if we go with your fantacized version of Achilles and your downplayed version of Legolas. I am bringing up times he has failed. His only successes were against fodder unlike Achilles which makes my argument more likely.

Legolas isn't 100 percent accurate shooting up people's nostrils like you elf fetishists would lead me to believe.

Originally posted by Placidity
Legolas killing the Olyphant was indeed impressive, and one of the epic moments in the film for me. However, it is not a compelling argument, even a fallacy, to say because Achilles would not have been able to do the same feats thus he would lose to Legolas in an one on one fight.

All the skills Legolas may use in a more complex scenario have no bearing here. It is a plain environment, there are no opportunities for him to get creative. He literally just has to try to shoot Achilles within 2-3 seconds. Sure no one said he can't run, but thats not his style in the film, and it doesn't accomplish anything or change the argument.

Disagreed for reasons stated, it showed us Legolas' strength, speed, agility and accuracy in a combat situation, all of which is above Achilles and would be factors in this fight.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I am bringing up times he has failed. His only successes were against fodder unlike Achilles which makes my argument more likely.

Legolas isn't 100 percent accurate shooting up people's nostrils like you elf fetishists would lead me to believe.

While ignoring that it obviously works against the likes of other Force-users, clown.

Legolas didn't miss once in all three films. If you're going to say he didn't have 100% accuracy please post a clip of him missing or name the scene, or just STFU with your ramblings already.

Legolas will wander the underworld blind, deaf, and dumb, and all the dead will know: This is Legolas. The fool who thought he could kill Achilles.

Originally posted by Robtard
While ignoring that it obviously works against the likes of other Force-users, clown.

Legolas didn't miss once in all three films. If you're going to say he didn't have 100% accuracy please post a clip of him missing or name the scene, or just STFU with your ramblings already. What does this have to do with force users this is Legolas. Try and stay on point.

Legolas was blocked and failed in bringing down the Uruk Hai who blew up the wall. He needed multiple arrows and his goal was to kill him prior to the explosion which means he failed against someone running in a straight line right in front of him without trying to defend himself at all. That's so abysmally terrible.

Achilles, 10/10.

Originally posted by quanchi112
What does this have to do with force users this is Legolas. Try and stay on point.

Legolas was blocked and failed in bringing down the Uruk Hai who blew up the wall. He needed multiple arrows and his goal was to kill him prior to the explosion which means he failed against someone running in a straight line right in front of him without trying to defend himself at all. That's so abysmally terrible.

Achilles, 10/10.

Yet another "you did it" reversal, boring. Moving on.

One lower showing doesn't counter the many, many higher showings were he killed orcs and uruks with a single shot or his battles with wargs, troll and the olyphant.

All you can do is downplay ad nauseum; been doing it from the start.

Originally posted by Robtard
Yet another "you did it" reversal, boring. Moving on.

One lower showing doesn't counter the many, many higher showings were he killed orcs and uruks with a single shot or his battles with wargs, troll and the olyphant.

All you can do is downplay ad nauseum; been doing it from the start. Concession accepted.

I used a showing in which thousands of men's lives were on the line where all he had to do was kill one Uruk Hai who isn't even defending himself run up to a wall in a straight line.

Achilles can casually block arrows with his shield and based off his skill and what not he easily closes the distance to Legolas. Gandalf also made him look terrible with help. Achilles would beat him and rather easily.

Originally posted by Mindset
Legolas will wander the underworld blind, deaf, and dumb, and all the dead will know: This is Legolas. The fool who thought he could kill Achilles.

Achilles wanders the underworld blind, deaf and dumb, and all the dead know: There goes Achilles. The fool who though he could kill Paris, girly-man of Troy.

If he wasn't macking on that dumb broad he would have killed Paris.

And if Legolas is macking on Gimli Achilles may have a chance in this fight.

If Achilles deems Legolas worthy of his sword there's nothing Legolas can do to survive.

At best he can prolong his inevitable death.

Originally posted by Mindset
If Achilles deems Legolas worthy of his sword there's nothing Legolas can do to survive.

At best he can prolong his inevitable death.

Except defeat him with a combo of his superior Elven strength, speed, agility and accuracy you mean. Last I check, those mattered in a fight like this.

Originally posted by Mindset
If he wasn't macking on that dumb broad he would have killed Paris.

Achilles didn't have a shield in that scene, so the shot through his heel was mostly irrelevant.

Remove that first arrow from his foot; Achilles still dies to the arrow wounds in his abdomen.

Originally posted by Robtard
Except defeat him with a combo of his superior Elven strength, speed, agility and accuracy you mean. Last I check, those mattered in a fight like this. Not when all he has is arrows which will be blocked. His stats are barely superior to Achilles' own anyway; Achilles is more skilled. Originally posted by Robtard
Achilles didn't have a shield in that scene, so the shot through his heel was mostly irrelevant.

Remove that first arrow from his foot; Achilles still dies to the arrow wounds in his abdomen. Remove the arrow in his heel and he's invulnerable.

Canon.

Originally posted by Mindset
Not when all he has is arrows which will be blocked. His stats are barely superior to Achilles' own anyway; Achilles is more
skilled.

Remove the arrow in his heel and he's invulnerable.

Canon.

Considering we've only seen Achilles block one arrow and nothing suggest that the archers in Troy come close to Legolas who has never missed, it's an unfounded statement, "he'll just block everything."

The director of Troy has specifically said he left out the mythical aspects of Troy; most importantly, Achilles did not show any divine powers/origins(unless you have some screen proof?), he was just a very highly skilled human.

Originally posted by Robtard
Considering we've only seen Achilles block one arrow and nothing suggest that the archers in Troy come close to Legolas who has never missed, it's an unfounded statement, "he'll just block everything."

The director of Troy has specifically said he left out the mythical aspects of Troy; most importantly, Achilles did not show any divine powers/origins(unless you have some screen proof?), he was just a very highly skilled human. He just needs to block enough to get close to Legolas, which he will, with his shield that covers most of his body.

His mother can predict the future. Achilles has talked about meeting the gods. His brain explodes when he's shot through his heel.

Sorry, can't argue against canon, Rob. Achilles is invulnerable.

Originally posted by Mindset
He just needs to block enough to get close to Legolas, which he will, with his shield that covers most of his body.

His mother can predict the future. Achilles has talked about meeting the gods. His brain explodes when he's shot through his heel.

Sorry, can't argue against canon, Rob. Achilles is invulnerable.

Legolas' 100% hit rate > your wishes. The shield does not cover his whole body and he certainly needs to leave his head exposed.

So you don't have proof that movie Achilles was invulnerable like his poetic counterpart. Thought so.

Ignoring the film won't make your claims correct. Sorry, MVF rules.

He will hit his shield 100% of the time, cool.

His head has a helmet.

I provided the proof, not that he needs invulnerability to kill one pointy eared puff.

Originally posted by quanchi112
They were exaggerated and I did forget about Legolas failing to killing a Uruk Hai running in a straight line to blow up the wall in time. The guy was utterly exposed with no way to defend himself and with all that on the line Legolas utterly failed. /thread.

You realize that you're bringing up a moment of complete, obvious PIS?

Achilles's shield doesn't cover his entire body. Legolas aims for his enemies' weak spots. The Elf can fire an arrow every second. Based on Achilles' death scene, just a single arrow would be enough to slow him down.

Not to mention Legolas fires an arrow strong enough to pierce through a massive elephant's skull, I'm sure that the single arrow that hits Achilles packs more than enough punch to "Boromir" Achilles.

Originally posted by Robtard
Considering we've only seen Achilles block one arrow and nothing suggest that the archers in Troy come close to Legolas who has never missed, it's an unfounded statement, "he'll just block everything."

The director of Troy has specifically said he left out the mythical aspects of Troy; most importantly, Achilles did not show any divine powers/origins(unless you have some screen proof?), he was just a very highly skilled human. We've seen Legolas fail to kill a Uruk Hai running in a straight line without even protecting himself. That scene kinda makes Legolas look really bad and when you throw him up against someone who have the presence of mind to easily deflect arrows while engage in multiple sword fights it's not even competitive.

Originally posted by Mindset
He will hit his shield 100% of the time, cool.

His head has a helmet.

I provided the proof, not that he needs invulnerability to kill one pointy eared puff.

Haha, nice try.

Helmets aren't necessarily arrow-proof, especially from a bow that and drill into an Oliphant's skull.

No, you said "his mother can predict the future" and some other nonsense.

Originally posted by quanchi112
We've seen Legolas fail to kill a Uruk Hai running in a straight line without even protecting himself. That scene kinda makes Legolas look really bad and when you throw him up against someone who have the presence of mind to easily deflect arrows while engage in multiple sword fights it's not even competitive.

LoL, we've gone over this multiple times, downplaying many great showings while focusing on one lesser showing doesn't fly here.

I understand why you continue to do it, as it's all you're capable of, so continue to dance for me like a good organ-grinder monkey.

Originally posted by Robtard
Haha, nice try.

Helmets aren't necessarily arrow-proof, especially from a bow that and drill into an Oliphant's skull.

No, you said "his mother can predict the future" and some other nonsense. But his is.

Yea, his mother predicted the future. Didn't you see the movie?

Originally posted by quanchi112
We've seen Legolas fail to kill a Uruk Hai running in a straight line without even protecting himself. That scene kinda makes Legolas look really bad and when you throw him up against someone who have the presence of mind to easily deflect arrows while engage in multiple sword fights it's not even competitive.

Did you not read my post?

P.I.S.

Originally posted by Mindset
But his is.

Yea, his mother predicted the future. Didn't you see the movie?

The role of clown has been filled already, sorry.

Originally posted by Robtard
The role of clown has been filled already, sorry. I'm serious, you don't remember that part of the movie?

Originally posted by Mindset
I'm serious, you don't remember that part of the movie?

Obviosuly I do, why I said it doesn't equate to Achilles being invulnerable. But you know this and are just playing games. No worries.

I don't think you do.

You shouldn't be thinking.

One of us has to.

Looks like it has to be me.

You're thinking again; we just went over how you shouldn't. Tsk tsk.

Don't feel insecure, Rob, you're not the only person I'm superior to.

Quancho's already corned the market on self back-patting. You need a new angle, sir.

Quanchi is one of the others.

Shhh, I'm almost done with season 5.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
You realize that you're bringing up a moment of complete, obvious PIS?

Achilles's shield doesn't cover his entire body. Legolas aims for his enemies' weak spots. The Elf can fire an arrow every second. Based on Achilles' death scene, just a single arrow would be enough to slow him down.

Not to mention Legolas fires an arrow strong enough to pierce through a massive elephant's skull, I'm sure that the single arrow that hits Achilles packs more than enough punch to "Boromir" Achilles.



No, it's called a moment of failure. He's a person who can and has made mistakes and failed. I can site gandalf or this moment. The guy isn't hitting people's earlobes from hundreds of yards away. You can't dismiss and praise his higher showings against fodder.Originally posted by Korto Vos
Did you not read my post?

P.I.S. I don't ignore failure.Originally posted by Robtard
LoL, we've gone over this multiple times, downplaying many great showings while focusing on one lesser showing doesn't fly here.

I understand why you continue to do it, as it's all you're capable of, so continue to dance for me like a good organ-grinder monkey. I factor in everything. He's really great against fodder while he still can fail and against a skilled opponent such as Gandalf look utterly ineffective.

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, it's called a moment of failure. He's a person who can and has made mistakes and failed. I can site gandalf or this moment. The guy isn't hitting people's earlobes from hundreds of yards away. You can't dismiss and praise his higher showings against fodder. I don't ignore failure. I factor in everything. He's really great against fodder while he still can fail and against a skilled opponent such as Gandalf look utterly ineffective.

No, it's PIS. Legolas kills every other armored Orc in the films handily- suddenly, he fails to kill to slay the one unarmored Orc whose sole purpose is to be the suicide bomber that causes the Deeping Wall to explode, and hence drive the plot. Yes, that would fall under PIS.

Skilled opponent?

Legolas single-handedly kills a gigantic pachyderm and its entire howdah crew.