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They fight in the Geonosis Arena.


Both are their strongest incarnations.

I'm more impressed by Malgus' Force powers, and Dooku's sabers. Dooku 6/10---even the most powerful Force wielders tend to get up close with their sabers a lot.

I lean Malgus.

Malgus and Vidican vs Kao Cen Darach looks very similar to Dooku vs Anakin and Obi-Wan. In this fight he showed nice brutal strength and rage, but his force powers looks quite poor.
When he confront Satele Shan on Alderan he was mutch better with a saber, but his force powers were still weak.
In battle of jedi temple his powers lokks very nice, but his strongest enemy - Ven Zallow - dies by his lightsaber.

Dooku on the other hand was able to defeat his enemies by the force (Kenobi, Bulq).
He was also great duelist, one of the best in history.

Force: 6/10 for Dooku

Sabers: Dooku... but Malgus's brutal strengch might be very problematic for him

All-out: 6-7/10 for Dooku i think

Truthfully I've yet to see much in the way of impressive Force-powers from Malgus. Though that may just be a result of poor representation of him by certain peoples.

Dooku 7/10

Dooku 7-8/10

Malgus beats the living hell out of him with the force. Sabers, probably dooku.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
General summary:

Malgus is physically much stronger then Dooku.

Is he?

Here we can see Anakin tear apart droids with his bare hands:

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i99/rapchill/SW_Visionaries_054.jpg

And here we can see Dooku blocking both Anakin and Obi-Wan at the same time one handed:

http://members.shaw.ca/david.p.z.888/star_wars/pics/count_dooku_final.jpg

Here (3.37) we can see Grievous punch a dent in a Starship hull:

sSlksBVfVkQ&feature=related

And here we can see Dooku treat Grievous like a broken-armed child:

wOhaGOuufFc

BTW, here is the RotS description of Grievous:

'The electrodrivers that powered Grievous's limbs could move them faster than the human eye can see; when he swung his arm, it and his fist and the lightsaber within it would literally vanish: wiped from existence by sheer mind-numbing speed, an imitation quantum event. No human being could move remotely as fast as Grievous, not even Obi-Wan-but he didn't have to.'


Theres also a matter of Yoda carrying a house-sized gun on his back in Clone Wars volume 3 (comic). But even I'm iffy on that one.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
He can tolerate very strong Force attacks. And hold his own against his opponents even in the worst of the times.

And Dooku cannot? Remember that Dooku engaged in a Force duel with Yoda and stalemated. The same Yoda who would go on to Force Push hundreds of battle droids off a bridge and telekintically own 2 tank carrier transport ships in the Battle of Corescant.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Malgus is not weak in any department. He can tire out Dooku and overwhelm him with his overpowering strikes.

Or Dooku could dance around his lightsaber like he did with Oppress.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Stop underestimating Malgus. He is much more powerful then Assaj Ventress.

Don't underestimate Asajj. Shes pretty hardcore.

Watch as she telekinetically owns some Clone Troopers in hysterically over the top fashion:

OA6Hk6yDjho&feature=related

(3.00 onwards)

Ok, I have to admit, that scene is way too funny. haermm


oHU-gF7xhqQ&feature=related

Also she displays impressive abilities here. Illusionment, Speed, Telekinesis, its all good stuff. She's also Force Crushed a Jedi Masters heart and animated corpses in the comics. And Force Choked Anakin and Kenobi at the same time in the CGI cartoon.

BfNwkqmAfXc&feature=related

1.17. Yoda is such a badass.

That was beautiful, Neph.

*Sniffle*

I <3 The Clone Wars cartoon.

I agree with what you posted Neph, but to be fair:



Yoda wasn't bothering going on the offensive in the Force against Dooku. He was just blocking. If he had decided to go all out, Dooku would have definitely lost then and there. It was Dooku who just prematurely claimed his Force might was on level with Yoda's and decided to move onto sabers.

Yoda won the 'Force exchange' against Sidious in ROTS, who is surely stronger in the Force than Dooku.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Yoda won the 'Force exchange' against Sidious in ROTS, who is surely stronger in the Force than Dooku.

And how did Yoda win this?

Yoda's TK of the pod versus Sidious' was arguably greater since Sidious didn't even attempt to reverse it. In the subsequent Lightning battle, Yoda overpowered Sidious conclusively. Also, the pods made active sounds because they were being manipulated via the antigrav controls when Sidious was using them. Just turn the volume up.

Since Yoda and Dooku don't directly compare TK in such a manner in the movies, we can't argue much here. But if you introduce EU, it leans towards Yoda.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Yoda's TK of the pod versus Sidious' was arguably greater since Sidious didn't even attempt to reverse it.

He only noticed it when it was a few meters away. He was too busy chuckling up a storm. Or maybe he just thought it was easier to just jump out the way.

Originally posted by Nephthys
He only noticed it when it was a few meters away. He was too busy chuckling up a storm. Or maybe he just thought it was easier to just jump out the way.

Point being, Yoda stopped a pod coming downwards at a considerable speed. Sidious with equal timing was unable to replicate the feat on a pod moving slower against gravity. Yoda's ability to stop the pod took literally one second.

Also to clarify on my earlier post, I'm including Clone Wars feats as well.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Also, the pods made active sounds because they were being manipulated via the antigrav controls when Sidious was using them. Just turn the volume up.

I did and the sound is present even when Yoda hurls the pod back.

oniMEjk-174

From 0:31 to 0:42, the antigravity functions remain audible. With that in mind, Yoda's feat is a lot less impressive.

Originally posted by PencilInEyelulz
I did and the sound is present even when Yoda hurls the pod back.

oniMEjk-174

From 0:31 to 0:42, the antigravity functions remain audible. With that in mind, Yoda's feat is a lot less impressive.

HD videos are always good to use.

The audible "whirling" sound is more pronounced when Sidious is sending forth pods than when Yoda is sending his back. If you watch from 0:26 - 0:29 or so, the sound of the pod whirling stops dead when Yoda raises his hands, and it continues to be markedly less pronounced than when Sidious is using the pods. In fact, when it whips up around the Sith Lord, the sound of the pod rotating in a circle is much louder.

The point being that Sidious is not superior because of "superior TK" as has been argued previously; that title still belongs to Yoda. Even if you assume that Yoda is manipulating the pod the same way (which is odd given that he had the power to dead-stop it and then he put it into a spinning motion) the point remains that Sidious did not even consider stopping it. He jumped to the side immediately.

So if you're comparing Yoda to Sidious in TK alone, Yoda's feat is superior because of:

- His dead-stop.
- The fact that Sidious refused to attempt to dead-stop something else moving upwards as opposed to downwards.

If you argue thusly:

- Whirling sound, therefore there is some anti-grav in effect. Yoda added the spin and relied on the antigrav to carry the pod up.

Then you must also admit this:

- The speed of the descending pod which Yoda dead-stopped was faster than the one Yoda sent upwards which Sidious immediately fled before.

In either case, my point stands

Excuse the delay; you'd be surprised at how little one can find on Star Wars senate platforms and there repulsorlifts.



Because the thrum stops entirely when Yoda halts the pod, I presume that the noise is meant to dictate the pod's speed {i.e. the quicker the thrum, the faster the pod is moving}.



I'm not sure how it would be odd to assume. The antigrav systems {if that is indeed what that noise is and not, say, extraneous sound intended to enhance the epic feel of the scene} are audible even when Yoda is manipulating the pod and while the thrum is slower than when Palpatine threw it, I would argue it is just as loud, if not louder as it approaches him.



Your argument in favor of Yoda's superiority is contingent on the idea that Palpatine was incapable of stopping the slower pod {I agree that the pod was slower returning to Sidious than it was leaving him}. But I submit that his evasion of it isn't necessarily indicative of incapability.

I just say Yoda is greater in Force due to the 'Lightning exchange.'

Yoda landed on the edge of the repulsorpod, in a precarious position when he was blasted with the Sidious's Force Storm. Yet still, he was able to catch it bare-handed, gather its energy, and redirect it upon the Dark Lord (had he not been smaller and at the ledge, he wouldn't have fallen; not to mention, Sidious smack in the middle of the pod, where he had a much greater chance of holding onto the pod).

I'd say that that would be a more convincing argument in favor of Yoda's superiority in the Force than the argument with the pods; if the antigrav systems were functional, Sidious had to overwhelm them in order to force the pods down.

But even then I'm not sure that it's meant to be interpreted that way, given that into 2011 the supplement material dictates Yoda was outmatched in that final struggle.

Yeah, there are multiple sources that say Yoda lost that fight. The RotS novel is another.

Originally posted by PencilInEyelulz
Excuse the delay; you'd be surprised at how little one can find on Star Wars senate platforms and there repulsorlifts.

I understand this very well. No worries.



It's true that the thrumming increases as the pod increases in velocity. This is directly tied to the argument that the thrum means the antigrav is in effect. Before this scene, you see Sidious wrench free multiple pods and raise them slightly before sending them forward. As the pods ascend, the thrumming grows in intensity and remains that way as they streak down at Yoda and well past him in some cases.

In the scene where Yoda stops one, the thrumming drops to almost nothing immediately. You can conceivably draw two conclusions from this:

- Yoda overcame the antigrav and is holding the pod in a TK grip.

- The antigrav recognized that its movement was restricted by the TK and stopped itself from resisting. This is ludicrous and unable to be substantiated.

So the logical thing to assume here is that Yoda stopped the pod dead, antigrav and all, with his telekinesis. In a heartbeat.



The whirling sound still comes from the pod underneath, but its tempo slow and it is barely audible. Again, if the volume and tempo of the pod is indicative of its antigrav exerting effort (a logical conclusion) then Yoda's pod delivered little to no effort at all to aid his TK versus Sidious' demonstration.

Also, I'm not sure how you're hearing it as louder when it's coming towards Sidious in this scene. I'm wearing headphones, with the sound up on "painful", and I cannot detect much above a trace of the whirl above the overwhelming sound of the rotation Yoda put on the pod.



That's stretching the evidence to support your conclusion though. It is entirely possible that Sidious could replicate the feat. it is entirely possible Dooku or Obi-Wan or Anakin could replicate the feat. But without canon evidence to demonstrate those facts, the arguments must rely on what is empirical, not just conjecture.

Let's break this down:

1. You're a big bad Sith Lord. You've murdered a few top level Jedi with relative ease.

2. You believe you've planned for every eventuality, but Yoda, the most powerful Jedi alive, comes knocking at your door.

3. You engage in a saber fight in which you lose your blade and are forced to retreat.

4. From a position of height and advantage, you rain down senatorial pods as Yoda struggles for a means to counter attack.

5. You are well aware of your own limitations and powers in the realm of the Force, having studied it in secret for decades.

6. Yoda sends a pod back at you at a slower velocity. You want to demonstrate superiority and win this fight. What do you do?

A. Throw the pod back with disdainful ease.

B. Throw it aside and rain lightning down on him.

C. Run away because you know you can't defeat him in a matched contest of Force TK strength.

How else am I to take the available evidence?



The pods are able to move in any direction. If Sidious is manipulating the controls, then it's very likely he can just send them blazing forward in whatever direction he likes with a small push. Also, unlike Yoda he is intimately familiar with the pods and their abilities.



Given that analysis of supplemental material is less open to discussion than the highest canon material available, I don't see the point of bringing this up. If you intend to hold all viewpoints of Lucasfilms' handbook brigade as absolute and binding and disregard the movies, your HD video clip is irrelevant to the discussion.

For the sake of both brevity and sanity, I'd like to keep this somewhat concise. If I fail to address something you regard as a major point, just let me know.



I'm not necessarily contesting this; it's perfectly believable that Yoda is powerful enough to overcome the platform's antigrav systems in order to keep it somewhat immobile. {After all, Sidious would have had to overwhelm the systems in order to throw it down at Yoda to begin with.}

My point, though, is that when the time comes to hurl the pod back, the sound you identify as the functioning antigrav systems is audible and therefore assisting Yoda in his endeavor. Unless I misread you, you're suggesting that he somehow shut them off; why would he do that? That would only make the task harder and he's not exactly in a position to recklessly expend vital energy {Sidious is already in a position to press his advantage with Yoda occupied with the pod}. Additionally, I see no reason for the antigrav systems to not lend significant assistance when their explicit function is to make the platforms levitate.



We know based on Dooku's EU and television feats that he is an incredibly powerful telekinetic; telekinesis is arguably the most central ability of Force users. Lucas, Filoni, and Dooku himself have made it emphatically clear that Sidious is more powerful than the Count. If Dooku is able to casually lift a plethora of massive stone monoliths simultaneously during the Savage Opress arc, and Sidious is more powerful than him, why would we assume that he would be incapable of stopping a Senate platform? It seems unreasonable to me that you would suggest him to be incapable of such a feat, when the evidence {through feats and quotes} indicates that he is more than capable of it.



Sidious was in a position of decisive advantage over Yoda in at least two occasions and didn't capitalize on it: once when Yoda was unconscious and then when Yoda was dealing with the final pod. Both times, he opted to gloat or cackle rather than exploit his superior position. Are we to assume, then, that because he didn't, he couldn't?

Perhaps Sidious opted to evade the pod and leap aside because he sought an even more decisive advantage? After all, the second Sidious touches down in his new pod, Yoda has seemingly vanished-- perhaps Sidious evaded the pod rather than stop it in order to deal with Yoda's inevitable attack?



I see no evidence to indicate that Sidious is manipulating the controls.



My point is that these various authors and writers employed by LucasFilm have interpreted the scene from the film to depict Palpatine's superiority, even six years after its release. Why should what you or I interpret supercede what they do?

Originally posted by PencilInEyelulz
We know based on Dooku's EU and television feats that he is an incredibly powerful telekinetic; telekinesis is arguably the most central ability of Force users. Lucas, Filoni, and Dooku himself have made it emphatically clear that Sidious is more powerful than the Count. If Dooku is able to casually lift a plethora of massive stone monoliths simultaneously during the Savage Opress arc, and Sidious is more powerful than him, why would we assume that he would be incapable of stopping a Senate platform?

Good point.

mfIEdlba5ZQ

Another impressive Force showing from the Count.

That was the feat I referenced.

Yeah, thats what reminded me of it.

It's pretty badass.

And if that is weaker than what Sidious can muster, I don't see a Senate platform befuddling him.

I am waiting for a response.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Is he?
Yes.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Here we can see Anakin tear apart droids with his bare hands:

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i99/rapchill/SW_Visionaries_054.jpg
Big deal?

Darth Malgus charges towards the Starship engine, hits it, tears through it, and tolerates that explosion:

http://i41.tinypic.com/30j5qol.png

http://i39.tinypic.com/2hyfivb.png

Not enough?

Malgus tolerates direct hits of rocket propelled grenades and powerful explosions:

http://i41.tinypic.com/zxa4ip.png

http://i39.tinypic.com/10wmvie.png

Originally posted by Nephthys
And here we can see Dooku blocking both Anakin and Obi-Wan at the same time one handed:

http://members.shaw.ca/david.p.z.888/star_wars/pics/count_dooku_final.jpg
Check this video:

wOLANti8UCY

During 2:27 - 2:29, Malgus uses one hand to grab the neck of a Jedi, lifts him up from the ground, and breaks his neck, and he uses other hand to cut down another Jedi with his lightsaber simultaneously.

And we all know that how that duel ended for Count Dooku. Anakin alone overpowered him with overwhelming strikes when he was enraged. Malgus gets enraged too.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Here (3.37) we can see Grievous punch a dent in a Starship hull:

sSlksBVfVkQ&feature=related
He is a machine. Not surprised.

Originally posted by Nephthys
And here we can see Dooku treat Grievous like a broken-armed child:

wOhaGOuufFc
Dooku used the Force to manhandle Grievous. And that isn't a big deal. Obi-Wan also send Grievous packing with his Force push. Grievous has no defence against force attacks. Malgus will reduce him to spare parts.

Malgus send a powerful Jedi Master packing with a single kick:

http://i44.tinypic.com/9rkode.png

And then Malgus force pushed the Jedi Master so hard that he hit the wall with such a force that he broke through it (like a cyborg) and landed on the other side in humiliating manner;

http://i42.tinypic.com/2hevokm.png

The Jedi Master himself was very strong. However, he was no match for Malgus.

Originally posted by Nephthys
BTW, here is the RotS description of Grievous:

'The electrodrivers that powered Grievous's limbs could move them faster than the human eye can see; when he swung his arm, it and his fist and the lightsaber within it would literally vanish: wiped from existence by sheer mind-numbing speed, an imitation quantum event. No human being could move remotely as fast as Grievous, not even Obi-Wan-but he didn't have to.'
Does not matters. Malgus has dominated powerful adversaries.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Theres also a matter of Yoda carrying a house-sized gun on his back in Clone Wars volume 3 (comic). But even I'm iffy on that one.
He would be using the Force.

Originally posted by Nephthys
And Dooku cannot? Remember that Dooku engaged in a Force duel with Yoda and stalemated. The same Yoda who would go on to Force Push hundreds of battle droids off a bridge and telekintically own 2 tank carrier transport ships in the Battle of Corescant.
It was not a stalemate. Dooku realized that he would not be able to hold Yoda much longer and distracted him by attempting to crush Anakin and Obi-Wan with a large object. Yoda decided to save the Jedi. Dooku is impressive. But what Malgus accomplished in Aldeeran puts him above Dooku without second thoughts.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Or Dooku could dance around his lightsaber like he did with Oppress.
What are the accomplishments of Oppress with lightsaber?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Don't underestimate Asajj. Shes pretty hardcore.

Watch as she telekinetically owns some Clone Troopers in hysterically over the top fashion:

OA6Hk6yDjho&feature=related

(3.00 onwards)

Ok, I have to admit, that scene is way too funny. haermm

oHU-gF7xhqQ&feature=related

Also she displays impressive abilities here. Illusionment, Speed, Telekinesis, its all good stuff. She's also Force Crushed a Jedi Masters heart and animated corpses in the comics. And Force Choked Anakin and Kenobi at the same time in the CGI cartoon.
Those cartoons are very funny. Thanks for sharing.

I admit, she is impressive. However, not in the league of Malgus.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Good point.

mfIEdlba5ZQ

Another impressive Force showing from the Count.
That is impressive.

However;

Malgus fell into the Force, roared, and hounded down the street, his anger lending his speed.

The Jedi held his ground. At twenty meters, the Jedi raised his lightsabers aloft to either side and drew them both down with a flourish.

Too late the rumble of the falling buildings penetrated the haze of Malgus's anger. An avalanche of duracrete and transparisteel crached down on him from either side of the street.

Malgus stood in a pocket under a mountain of rubble, legs bent, the power from his upraised hands preventing several tons of duracrete and steel from crushing him. Dust made his already troubled breath more difficult. He coughed as the words of his father echoed in his mind.

He'd been sloppy, so lost in his need for revenge that he'd failed to properly evaluate the Jedi's power. He's surrendered his reason to bloodlust. But no more. With an effort of will, he contained his anger, controlled it, made it a whetstone against which he sharpened his power. Using the Force, he blew the rubble up and away from him. It fell with a crash on the adjacent buildings. A Force-augmented leap carried him out and over the heap. The Jedi's eyes widened as Malgus hit the street. Malgus sneered and charged.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
I agree with what you posted Neph
Malgus is stronger then Count Dooku. He is much more overwhelming then Anakin Skywalker.

Count Dooku will put up a decent fight but he will go down against Malgus.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Yoda wasn't bothering going on the offensive in the Force against Dooku. He was just blocking. If he had decided to go all out, Dooku would have definitely lost then and there. It was Dooku who just prematurely claimed his Force might was on level with Yoda's and decided to move onto sabers.

Yoda won the 'Force exchange' against Sidious in ROTS, who is surely stronger in the Force than Dooku.
Yes. I agree with this.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Big deal?

Darth Malgus charges towards the Starship engine, hits it, tears through it, and tolerates that explosion:

http://i41.tinypic.com/30j5qol.png

http://i39.tinypic.com/2hyfivb.png

Um................... so?

That..... isn't a feat of strength for him. He just jumped at it with his lightsaber held out in front of him. Look, you can see it more clearly here. Besides, he's wearing armor, which no doubt protected him.


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Not enough?

Malgus tolerates direct hits of rocket propelled grenades and powerful explosions:

http://i41.tinypic.com/zxa4ip.png

http://i39.tinypic.com/10wmvie.png

Again, not a feat of strength. Malgus' armor protected him. Plus, this is where his face gets damaged.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Check this video:

wOLANti8UCY

During 2:27 - 2:29, Malgus uses one hand to grab the neck of a Jedi, lifts him up from the ground, and breaks his neck, and he uses other hand to cut down another Jedi with his lightsaber simultaneously.

The strength needed to lift a man/woman/alien one-handed is good I guess, but nowhere near that needed to rip (futuristic) metal apart with ones bare hands. Also he does not break the Jedi's neck. At least, not by anything I saw. And cutting someone down is not a strength feat either.

So Anakin is stronger.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
And we all know that how that duel ended for Count Dooku. Anakin alone overpowered him with overwhelming strikes when he was enraged. Malgus gets enraged too.

Malgus does not have the unlimited power of Anakin Skywalker to call upon. In that fight Anakin tapped into his true potential, which as stated by George Lucas (iirc) was twice that of Darth Sidious, the man heralded and widely believed to be the most powerful Sith Lord in history.


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
He is a machine. Not surprised.

Nor am I.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Dooku used the Force to manhandle Grievous. And that isn't a big deal. Obi-Wan also send Grievous packing with his Force push. Grievous has no defence against force attacks. Malgus will reduce him to spare parts.

Um, no, you seem to have missed the point. All throughout the duel we can see Dooku block Grievous' strikes easily one-handedly. Considering the cyborg has enough strength to dent hulls, that is extremely impressive, and speaks for the Count's Force-assisted strength.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Malgus send a powerful Jedi Master packing with a single kick:

http://i44.tinypic.com/9rkode.png

Quite impressive. But not enough to tip anything in in his favor. He'll need more than kicks to take down Dooku. Grievous was also able to kick Obi-Wan across a room and the Count still schooled him, as seen above.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
And then Malgus force pushed the Jedi Master so hard that he hit the wall with such a force that he broke through it (like a cyborg) and landed on the other side in humiliating manner;

http://i42.tinypic.com/2hevokm.png

The Jedi Master himself was very strong. However, he was no match for Malgus.

So?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Does not matters. Malgus has dominated powerful adversaries.



It does not matter? The fact that Grievous is capable of moving far and away faster than any human being (including Malgus) in history does not matter? You yourself salivate over some random Siths lightsaber blurring and the fact that Grievous can move so fast his arms vanish from sight, imitating a quantum even Does. Not. Matter?

Bullshit. That Dooku was capable of treating an opponent with that level of speed, as well as the strength I provide above, like child with a wooden stick speaks wonders of his ability in lightsaber combat.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
He would be using the Force.

So? All Jedi use the Force to amplify their physical attributes.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
It was not a stalemate. Dooku realized that he would not be able to hold Yoda much longer and distracted him by attempting to crush Anakin and Obi-Wan with a large object. Yoda decided to save the Jedi. Dooku is impressive.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you are not privy to the Counts thoughts. So you cannot make assumptions about why he decided to withdraw.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
But what Malgus accomplished in Aldeeran puts him above Dooku without second thoughts.

No it doesn't. That Malgus can survive the beating Satale gave him is impressive, but it won't allow him to survive a lightsaber stab.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
What are the accomplishments of Oppress with lightsaber?

OCuJwz0DQDA

i-ri6BwLK6g&feature=related

And now for his fight against Dooku:

gwSaevwaTJc

A very impressive showing from Dooku imo.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Those cartoons are very funny. Thanks for sharing.

I admit, she is impressive. However, not in the league of Malgus.

Your welcome. You should watch them, they're great.

I would be inclined to agree with you. However, that Dooku was able to so effortlessly dominate her speaks of his power and abilities.


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
That is impressive.

However;

Malgus fell into the Force, roared, and hounded down the street, his anger lending his speed.

The Jedi held his ground. At twenty meters, the Jedi raised his lightsabers aloft to either side and drew them both down with a flourish.

Too late the rumble of the falling buildings penetrated the haze of Malgus's anger. An avalanche of duracrete and transparisteel crached down on him from either side of the street.

Malgus stood in a pocket under a mountain of rubble, legs bent, the power from his upraised hands preventing several tons of duracrete and steel from crushing him. Dust made his already troubled breath more difficult. He coughed as the words of his father echoed in his mind.

He'd been sloppy, so lost in his need for revenge that he'd failed to properly evaluate the Jedi's power. He's surrendered his reason to bloodlust. But no more. With an effort of will, he contained his anger, controlled it, made it a whetstone against which he sharpened his power. Using the Force, he blew the rubble up and away from him. It fell with a crash on the adjacent buildings. A Force-augmented leap carried him out and over the heap. The Jedi's eyes widened as Malgus hit the street. Malgus sneered and charged.

Malgus only supported 'several tons' of rubble. A quick look on Dictionary.com reveals that 'several' means 'Being of a number more than two or three but not many'. The weight of the pillars Dooku casually supported was likely dozens of tons, well above what Malgus accomplished.



Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Malgus is stronger then Count Dooku. He is much more overwhelming then Anakin Skywalker.




No he isn't.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Um................... so?

That..... isn't a feat of strength for him. He just jumped at it with his lightsaber held out in front of him. Look, you can see it more clearly here. Besides, he's wearing armor, which no doubt protected him.




Again, not a feat of strength. Malgus' armor protected him. Plus, this is where his face gets damaged.



The strength needed to lift a man/woman/alien one-handed is good I guess, but nowhere near that needed to rip (futuristic) metal apart with ones bare hands. Also he does not break the Jedi's neck. At least, not by anything I saw. And cutting someone down is not a strength feat either.

So Anakin is stronger.



Malgus does not have the unlimited power of Anakin Skywalker to call upon. In that fight Anakin tapped into his true potential, which as stated by George Lucas (iirc) was twice that of Darth Sidious, the man heralded and widely believed to be the most powerful Sith Lord in history.




Nor am I.



Um, no, you seem to have missed the point. All throughout the duel we can see Dooku block Grievous' strikes easily one-handedly. Considering the cyborg has enough strength to dent hulls, that is extremely impressive, and speaks for the Count's Force-assisted strength.



Quite impressive. But not enough to tip anything in in his favor. He'll need more than kicks to take down Dooku. Grievous was also able to kick Obi-Wan across a room and the Count still schooled him, as seen above.



So?





It does not matter? The fact that Grievous is capable of moving far and away faster than any human being (including Malgus) in history does not matter? You yourself salivate over some random Siths lightsaber blurring and the fact that Grievous can move so fast his arms vanish from sight, imitating a quantum even Does. Not. Matter?

Bullshit. That Dooku was capable of treating an opponent with that level of speed, as well as the strength I provide above, like child with a wooden stick speaks wonders of his ability in lightsaber combat.



So? All Jedi use the Force to amplify their physical attributes.



Correct me if I'm wrong, but you are not privy to the Counts thoughts. So you cannot make assumptions about why he decided to withdraw.



No it doesn't. That Malgus can survive the beating Satale gave him is impressive, but it won't allow him to survive a lightsaber stab.



OCuJwz0DQDA

i-ri6BwLK6g&feature=related

And now for his fight against Dooku:

gwSaevwaTJc

A very impressive showing from Dooku imo.



Your welcome. You should watch them, they're great.

I would be inclined to agree with you. However, that Dooku was able to so effortlessly dominate her speaks of his power and abilities.




Malgus only supported 'several tons' of rubble. A quick look on Dictionary.com reveals that 'several' means 'Being of a number more than two or three but not many'. The weight of the pillars Dooku casually supported was likely dozens of tons, well above what Malgus accomplished.








No he isn't.


Nice...

LeGend can't even prove how Malgus will be able to overcome Count Dooku, and yet he continues to argue that he can be compared to Darth Bane. Yeah, there's no way in hell

Sorry for my interference here, but I simple have to participate in this:

Originally posted by PencilInEyelulz
I'm not necessarily contesting this; it's perfectly believable that Yoda is powerful enough to overcome the platform's antigrav systems in order to keep it somewhat immobile. {After all, Sidious would have had to overwhelm the systems in order to throw it down at Yoda to begin with.}

My point, though, is that when the time comes to hurl the pod back, the sound you identify as the functioning antigrav systems is audible and therefore assisting Yoda in his endeavor. Unless I misread you, you're suggesting that he somehow shut them off; why would he do that? That would only make the task harder and he's not exactly in a position to recklessly expend vital energy {Sidious is already in a position to press his advantage with Yoda occupied with the pod}. Additionally, I see no reason for the antigrav systems to not lend significant assistance when their explicit function is to make the platforms levitate.

I'm rather certain, you are both not getting the point of antigravity devices. As the name "antigravity" already suggests, those things are designed to counter gravity - nothing more. So why should they work against or for either Sidious or Yoda?

Technically, they just have to prevent, that the pods are affected by gravity (hence "antigravity", but force pushs or pulls, regardless in which direction they are aimed, would not benefit from this, since the pods wouldn't provide any force to aid / counter those force powers utilized against them, as those forces are not gravity.

That being said, I completely disagree with the theory of the sounds being generated by the antigrav devices (holy shit...imagine that annoyingly humming sound when all damn Senate pods would be floating through the air), which doesn't mean that they weren't active. I see this as a general indicator of the pods moving through the air - the faster they move, the louder the sound becomes. I haven't noticed any similar sound (in volume) during the various other Senate scene we saw in the Trilogy. But maybe somebody wants to check that.



Since when does "more powerful" as a general statement mean "superior in every single aspect of force use"? It is very well possible, that Dooku - either through a special talent or extensive training - has developed power in the field of telekinesis that topple those of his Sith master. I'm not saying that this is or must be the case...just saying that it could be possible.



I think, Sidious was unable to stop that pod in that selected situation. Why?
The answer is rather simple: In addition to the momentum of the pod thrown at him, Sidious had to consider the possibility, that Yoda would keep pushing that pod. So stopping it would have meant to risk a direct test of powers with the Jedi Master who could have benefited from the fact, that he had already thrown an object in Sidious direction and just would have needed to add some more power to it to speed it up an - as final result - crush the Sith Lord with it.



Do you seriously believe this?
I'm rather sure you're giving those authors far too much credit. They had an authorized interpretation of the scene in form of the RotS novel - so why do the already done work once again? Any statement refering to that particular scene, uses the same wording that is utilized in the RotS novel. Coincidence? Hardly. I can site several examples, which demonstrate clearly, that SW authors are rather good with the C&P.

Just for example: The description of Ragnos having "tremendous physical strength and a frightening grasp on the Dark Side" made it from Kreia's mouth right into the New Essential Chronology and can also be found in The Essential Guide through the Force. I don't think that three authors examined the source material on Ragnos and then came to the exact same conclusion with the exact same wording...

And the same is probably the case for the "interpretations" of the scene in RotS, which are all based on a early version of the script that doesn't necessarily represent what happens in the final version of the (movie) canon.

I recall that similar noises were heard during the Senate scene in The Phantom Menace, but that might have been from the camera droids.



Telekinesis is arguably the most common and visible {as funny as that sounds} manifestation of Force power. If the Count's telekinetic powers eclipsed Palpatine's, I don't imagine that Dooku would feel particularly threatened by Sidious nor do I imagine that the authorities at LucasFilm would be so emphatic about Palpatine's superiority.



Perhaps. I haven't personally ruled out the idea that Sidious couldn't stop it, I just found it unlikely.



I do.
I'm not sure your example with Ragnos is appropriate, for a number of reasons. First, the source material in question is infinitely more popular and canonically more important than KotOR II. Likewise the characters involved are more popular and canonically more important than Ragnos, who isn't a high profile character even in the EU. Third, the near identical wording of the descriptions of Ragnos contrast with the varied and different descriptions of the duel between Yoda and Sidious.

It is unreasonable to assume that these authors, six years after the fact, only deal with an unrevised script.

Neither one of you have proven how Dooku would overcome a force beast like Malgus, other than posting the same crap ad infinitum. If dooku wins, it will be with a saber..

Malgus' Force beastly status has yet to be verified I'm afraid.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Malgus' Force beastly status has yet to be verified I'm afraid. If that were the case, then your argument would be "dooku wins because he has more feats to his name"? Lol

Originally posted by Sith Sorcerer
Neither one of you have proven how Dooku would overcome a force beast like Malgus, other than posting the same crap ad infinitum. If dooku wins, it will be with a saber.. *COUGH Dooku is sexy and he knows it COUGH*

Originally posted by Sith Sorcerer
If that were the case, then your argument would be "dooku wins because he has more feats to his name"? Lol


No, not really.

Dooku has more feats than Abeloth or Nihilus, yet both are obvious Force Titans. If Malgus was really so fantastical then his superiority would be undeniable.

And yet..... I deny! abcmwahaha

Originally posted by Nephthys
No, not really.

Dooku has more feats than Abeloth or Nihilus, yet both are obvious Force Titans. If Malgus was really so fantastical then his superiority would be undeniable.

And yet..... I deny! abcmwahaha Lol so is zon3akin better than Abeloth and Nihilus

Originally posted by Nephthys
so how strong is zone

Um.....

mmm

........ Well he was strong enough to pretty much take out Dooku whenever he wanted at he end, which even Yoda wasn't able to do. But Dooku was heavily fatigued and drained by that point, which no doubt factored in, especially as Anakin was just getting stronger.

I'd hazard a guess that he's around Yoda's level, but the description of him just getting stronger and stronger as the fight went on is really unique. So its hard to say.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Um................... so?

That..... isn't a feat of strength for him.
He augmented his strength with the Force before he made that move. You think that it is easy to carve your way through heavy machinery like that? Continue to read below.

Originally posted by Nephthys
He just jumped at it with his lightsaber held out in front of him.
Lightsabers do not cut through starship parts like knife through butter with minor effort. Impressive strength is required to cut through such heavy machinery. And Malgus was not hacking and slashing.

Here is another analogy; you have a saw in your hand that is lethal enough to cut through heavy wood. However, your physical strength would determine that how fast you cut through it.

Get the point?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Look, you can see it more clearly here. Besides, he's wearing armor, which no doubt protected him.
There is a limit to protection of body armor. If body armor is enough withstand powerful explosions, then how come heavily armored Tanks and Droids get destroyed by them? The energy and heat that such explosions release are enormous. Again, you are not making any sense.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Again, not a feat of strength. Malgus' armor protected him. Plus, this is where his face gets damaged.
Sometimes I wonder if I am arguing with a kid. If body armor can protect you from missiles and rocket propelled grenades, who needs Tanks and gigantic Droids in battles? Use your brain. Malgus himself was physically very strong. Now show me comparable example from Anakin.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The strength needed to lift a man/woman/alien one-handed is good I guess,
You guess? Try it youself, genius. You need a cyborg to do that.

Originally posted by Nephthys
but nowhere near that needed to rip (futuristic) metal apart with ones bare hands.
Anakin would be augmenting his strength with the Force. Jedi gets superhuman capabilities from the Force.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Also he does not break the Jedi's neck.
The Jedi is pretty much immobilized.

Originally posted by Nephthys
At least, not by anything I saw. And cutting someone down is not a strength feat either.
Try lifting a man with one hand and use your sword against other to strike him down simultaneously. Then come back.

Originally posted by Nephthys
So Anakin is stronger.
No, he is not.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Malgus does not have the unlimited power of Anakin Skywalker to call upon.
There is no such thing as unlimited power. Every one has limits, even in Star Wars.

Originally posted by Nephthys
In that fight Anakin tapped into his true potential, which as stated by George Lucas (iirc) was twice that of Darth Sidious, the man heralded and widely believed to be the most powerful Sith Lord in history.
And against Obi-Wan, what happened?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Nor am I.
The example was unnecessary.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Um, no, you seem to have missed the point. All throughout the duel we can see Dooku block Grievous' strikes easily one-handedly. Considering the cyborg has enough strength to dent hulls, that is extremely impressive, and speaks for the Count's Force-assisted strength.
That is Count Dooku's dueling style. Even Darth Malak dueled with single hand. Malgus also often duels with single hand. And he can also augment his strength with the Force.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Quite impressive. But not enough to tip anything in in his favor. He'll need more than kicks to take down Dooku.
Agreed.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Grievous was also able to kick Obi-Wan across a room and the Count still schooled him, as seen above.
Obi-Wan is not a powerful force user.

Originally posted by Nephthys
So?
So it proves that Malgus is capable of performing powerful force attacks. And he will make the duel difficult for Count Dooku.

Originally posted by Nephthys


It does not matter? The fact that Grievous is capable of moving far and away faster than any human being (including Malgus) in history does not matter?
Random Sith? Lord Adrass is no random Sith. Did you even watched the Decieved video and read about him in the novels?

Originally posted by Nephthys
You yourself salivate over some random Siths lightsaber blurring and the fact that Grievous can move so fast his arms vanish from sight, imitating a quantum even Does. Not. Matter?
Grievous being a machine is capable of performing impressive feats. However, this is not sufficient to put him on par with powerful Jedi and Sith. No droid is ever a match for a powerful Sith or Jedi.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Bullshit. That Dooku was capable of treating an opponent with that level of speed, as well as the strength I provide above, like child with a wooden stick speaks wonders of his ability in lightsaber combat.
Again, Dooku's schooling of Greivous is not impressive example. His dueling with Yoda is much better example.

Originally posted by Nephthys
So? All Jedi use the Force to amplify their physical attributes.
Yes. And this example is irrelevant.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you are not privy to the Counts thoughts. So you cannot make assumptions about why he decided to withdraw.
Then why did he ran away? He could have ended Yoda right there, if he was that much capable.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No it doesn't. That Malgus can survive the beating Satale gave him is impressive, but it won't allow him to survive a lightsaber stab.
I can accept this. Keep in mind that Count Dooku's force abilities will be useless against Malgus.

Member Sith Sorcerer is correct in his assumption that if Malgus goes down, it will be because of lightsaber stab.

Originally posted by Nephthys
OCuJwz0DQDA

i-ri6BwLK6g&feature=related
These are good animations. More realistic then those funny cartoons.

Oppress is slower then Vindican in both of these videos.

Originally posted by Nephthys
And now for his fight against Dooku:

gwSaevwaTJc

A very impressive showing from Dooku imo.
Oppress is physically stronger then Count Dooku and send him packing at 1:04. Count Dooku heavily relied on Force lightning to stop him.

Opress is good with lightsaber. However, he has no prominent kills to his name. These videos do no put him on par with Malgus. Not even close.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Your welcome. You should watch them, they're great.

I would be inclined to agree with you. However, that Dooku was able to so effortlessly dominate her speaks of his power and abilities.
Again, see the third video above. Diffferent characters can pose different challenges depending upon their capabilities. Malgus is considerably harder battle for Count Dooku.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Malgus only supported 'several tons' of rubble. A quick look on Dictionary.com reveals that 'several' means 'Being of a number more than two or three but not many'. The weight of the pillars Dooku casually supported was likely dozens of tons, well above what Malgus accomplished.
Again, you dare assume on weight of those objects? Don't do it without proper backing.

Several tons does not means 2 or 3. It means more. Not too many but still can be impressive number.

Also, Malgus threw them away like ragdolls.

Originally posted by Nephthys


No he isn't.
Yes, he is. There is no example here that puts Count Dooku on par with Malgus's physical strength and also his tolerance.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Nice...
You lack logical thinking. His points lack logical reasoning too. He is just impressed by single hand dueling style of Count Dooku. Count is not unique in this regard.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
LeGend can't even prove how Malgus will be able to overcome Count Dooku,
You have better arguments? Then post here instead of these baseless one-liners.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
and yet he continues to argue that he can be compared to Darth Bane. Yeah, there's no way in hell
Darth Bane is massively overhyped. Like all other characters, he has moments of glory and also failures.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
He augmented his strength with the Force before he made that move. You think that it is easy to carve your way through heavy machinery like that? Continue to read below.

Well, yes. Its a lightsaber, it can cut through pretty much anything.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Lightsabers do not cut through starship parts like knife through butter with minor effort.

Proof of this? Do you have an example of a lightsaber struggling to cut through an engine?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Here is another analogy; you have a saw in your hand that is lethal enough to cut through heavy wood. However, your physical strength would determine that how fast you cut through it.

Get the point?

Incorrect. The sharpness of the saw would also play a significant part. The sharper the blade, the less resistence to my cuts. And a lightsaber has the best cutting power in the galaxy.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
There is a limit to protection of body armor. If body armor is enough withstand powerful explosions, then how come heavily armored Tanks and Droids get destroyed by them? The energy and heat that such explosions release are enormous. Again, you are not making any sense.

Well for a start they got destroyed by direct hits, while Malgus was not directly hit, he was just caught up in the explosion. Secondly he's a Sith Lord, so of course he has the best armor available. Thirdly, they're just battle droids. You might as well ask why stormtroopers get shitty mass-produced armor while Vader gets armor that can deflect a direct lightsaber strike.

And fourthly, his armor did protect him. What, do you think it played no part at all? That the explosion only hit his head, the only exposed part of him. Come on.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Sometimes I wonder if I am arguing with a kid.

Legend, don't patronize me. No-one, myself included, takes you seriously. Count yourself lucky I'm bored enough to stoop to debating you.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
If body armor can protect you from missiles and rocket propelled grenades, who needs Tanks and gigantic Droids in battles? Use your brain.

If body armor can protect you from lightsaber strikes, why need stormtroopers?

Typical blind Legend.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Malgus himself was physically very strong. Now show me comparable example from Anakin.

Again, how the **** does that show he's strong? Did he punch the explosion!?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You guess? Try it youself, genius. You need a cyborg to do that.

Or the ability to use the Force. Are you really this ignorant or are you just doing a good impression.

You yourself have said that Jedi can amplify their physical strength with the Force. Guess what, alot of Jedi can do this. Being able to lift someone one-handed is not a particularly overwhelming feat. In Tales of the Jedi Exar Kun and Sylvar both replicate this.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Anakin would be augmenting his strength with the Force. Jedi gets superhuman capabilities from the Force.

No dumbass, he's using his robotic hand. You can't augment a robot hand with the Force.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
The Jedi is pretty much immobilized.

Again, so what? He just lifted him up. Theres nothing indicating he snapped his/her neck.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Try lifting a man with one hand and use your sword against other to strike him down simultaneously. Then come back.

You're a real idiot, you know that?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
There is no such thing as unlimited power. Every one has limits, even in Star Wars.

I was using a colorful turn of phrase.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
And against Obi-Wan, what happened?

Anakin did not tap into his true potential, instead becoming a feral, insane lunatic.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
The example was unnecessary.

No it wasn't you utter insect. That you are too blind to understand basic logic does not make the point unnecessary. The point being that Grievous is incredibly strong, stronger than Malgus, and Dooku was able to block him with one hand.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
That is Count Dooku's dueling style. Even Darth Malak dueled with single hand. Malgus also often duels with single hand. And he can also augment his strength with the Force.

THAT DOES NOT CHANGE THE POINT!

Dooku is strong enough to easily block a cyborg with superstrength with ONE HAND! That alone proves that he is more that capable of dealing with Malgus' pitiful strength. I can't tell at this stage whether your actually missing the point or if you're pretending to be ignorant because you know you can't refute my points legitimately.


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Agreed.

Good.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Obi-Wan is not a powerful force user.

He is, but whatever, its not important.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
So it proves that Malgus is capable of performing powerful force attacks. And he will make the duel difficult for Count Dooku.

So what? We're talking about Malgus' physical strength, not his Force strength. You think Dooku cannot also perform powerful Force attacks? Please.


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Random Sith? Lord Adrass is no random Sith. Did you even watched the Decieved video and read about him in the novels?

Yes, you've posted both for me to read. He does not impress me in the slightest.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Grievous being a machine is capable of performing impressive feats. However, this is not sufficient to put him on par with powerful Jedi and Sith. No droid is ever a match for a powerful Sith or Jedi.

Yes it is sufficient. If you continue to ignore my evidence like a coward then I will stop replying to you. Oh and:

WIj7gIDFDe4

3 of those Jedi were Jedi Council Members.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Again, Dooku's schooling of Greivous is not impressive example. His dueling with Yoda is much better example.

Grievous is faster and stronger than Malgus. And Dooku toyed with him. This is an incredibly impressive feat.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Yes. And this example is irrelevant.

Dooku is capable of holding a saberlock with abeing who can lift a house-sized gun and its irrelevent? Ok, if you say so.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Then why did he ran away? He could have ended Yoda right there, if he was that much capable.

There were reinforcements in coming. Also if he had not left at that point he may not have been able to get off the planet and past any Republic ships. There are numerous reasons.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I can accept this. Keep in mind that Count Dooku's force abilities will be useless against Malgus.

As long as you keep in mind that the reverse is also true.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Member Sith Sorcerer is correct in his assumption that if Malgus goes down, it will be because of lightsaber stab.

Agreed. And since Dooku is superior to him with a lightsaber.....

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Oppress is slower then Vindican in both of these videos.


Oppress is physically stronger then Count Dooku and send him packing at 1:04. Count Dooku heavily relied on Force lightning to stop him.

Opress is good with lightsaber. However, he has no prominent kills to his name. These videos do no put him on par with Malgus. Not even close.

So? Speed doesn't matter as much as strength remember.

That Opress was able to do that and Grievous was not simply speaks about his strength, not Dooku's weakness. And Dooku was able to simply dance around his attacks without a lightsaber anyway.

Again your stupid rule of judging someone by 'prominent kills'. And why not? Opress is stronger than Malgus, can walk through less Jedi and has comparable Force Strength.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Again, see the third video above. Diffferent characters can pose different challenges depending upon their capabilities. Malgus is considerably harder battle for Count Dooku.

How does that respond to my point? Dooku dominating Asajj is a damn impressive feat for him given how powerful she is. Do not ignore this.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Again, you dare assume on weight of those objects? Don't do it without proper backing.

I have gotten a proper backing on them in the past, in the Dooku vs Vader thread. And they are easily over a dozen tons.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Several tons does not means 2 or 3. It means more. Not too many but still can be impressive number.

No, not impressive. Not even close.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Yes, he is. There is no example here that puts Count Dooku on par with Malgus's physical strength and also his tolerance.

Your lies are sour. Anakin is a monster. That you put Malgus above Zonakin, the fully-realised Chosen One, is laughable.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You lack logical thinking. His points lack logical reasoning too. He is just impressed by single hand dueling style of Count Dooku. Count is not unique in this regard.

No, You're completely missing his points. Dooku, being able to duel very strong opponents with one hand, proves that Dooku is far from a weakling himself.

Now if Dooku and Malgus were to have an arm wrestling match, I would most likely give it to Malgus. However, Malgus strength is not enough to overcome Dooku in an all out fight.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You have better arguments? Then post here instead of these baseless one-liners.

Nephthys already crushed your arguments. He has provided evidents in Dooku's superiority in TK and duelling skills, and you continue to argue. Sorry but we're not going to do what Sith Sorcerer wants us to do and place new comers up there with the big dogs just because they may look more badass. You need to provide proof that he can overcome someone like Dooku, and so far you have not provided proof for Malgus's superiority over Dooku.

GWy7ZwYf9CQ

That dart Dooku pulled out of his neck was some kind of drug imbued with nightsister magic. It took away Dooku's vision and dampened his force senses. Yet Dooku ended up sending all three nightsister (including Ventress) flying out of his window with a powerful burst of force lightning.

Ventress who is skilled and powerful enough to take on some of the best the jedi order had to offer, such as Kit Fisto, is absolutely no match for Dooku, even when she has help. Don't underestimate Ventress. Although she is not a full fledged sith, she is still a very gifted warrior.



Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Darth Bane is massively overhyped. Like all other characters, he has moments of glory and also failures.

And Malgus is all glory and no failures, right?

Get out of here. lol

Originally posted by Nephthys
Well, yes. Its a lightsaber, it can cut through pretty much anything.
This is very shortsighted logic. Lightsaber cannot cut through everything in the first place. Also, some objects are harder to cut through then others. Starship parts are typically made of very durable materials.

Here is an analogy: A shark can have mouth filled with razer sharp teeth which can cut through flesh like knives through butter. However, the bite force plays a significant role behind the total damage inflicted on the victim's body in a single chomp.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Proof of this? Do you have an example of a lightsaber struggling to cut through an engine?
Starship parts are very durable.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Incorrect. The sharpness of the saw would also play a significant part. The sharper the blade, the less resistence to my cuts.
Listen kid, you need some serious reality check.

I have performed this experiment myself. The saw is indeed designed to cut through the wood. However, the more force I apply, the faster I cut through.

Try this yourself.


It might be but still the force behind the strokes matter a lot.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Well for a start they got destroyed by direct hits, while Malgus was not directly hit, he was just caught up in the explosion.
Watch the video again. Malgus force jumped towards the Starship engine and destroyed it in mid-air:

http://i44.tinypic.com/301houd.png

And he tolerated all that explosion in the process.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Secondly he's a Sith Lord, so of course he has the best armor available.
Not necessarily. Jedi and Sith mostly rely on the Force to protect themselves from dangerous attacks, if they are strong enough.

And body armor offers limited protection. If you wear the best bulletproof jacket in the world, it will offer you good protection against bullets and sharpnel. However, it cannot save you from RPG hits.

Even in the Star Wars, forcefield offers good protection against heavy firepower.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Thirdly, they're just battle droids.
Battle Droids can be enormous in size and very heavily armored.

Watch this video:

PqkSzHOzQj4

At 1:41, the Bounty Hunter destroys a large Droid with a single rocket or RPG hit. And he uses the Forcefield to save himself from dangerous attacks.

Originally posted by Nephthys
You might as well ask why stormtroopers get shitty mass-produced armor while Vader gets armor that can deflect a direct lightsaber strike.
Stormtroopers are vulnerable to powerful explosions. Even Vader's armor offers limited protection against powerful explosions.

Here;

He raised his gloved hands to defend himself, but the battery continued until, with a crash, the apprentice ripped the energy field generator in the center of the room right out of the floor and hurled it at his former Master.

The generator exploded with greater force than he had expected, throwing him and everyone else to the floor. The transparisteel dome shattered. Debris rained everywhere. The sound of the explosion rang in his ears for an unnaturally long time afterward.

He was the first to his feet, striding across the rubble to where Darth Vader lay face-forward, gravely wounded and stripped of his armor in places. Flesh and machinery showed through the gaps. Finally, some real blood was flowing.

Originally posted by Nephthys
And fourthly, his armor did protect him. What, do you think it played no part at all? That the explosion only hit his head, the only exposed part of him. Come on.
His armor did not do any wonders. It cannot protect him from such powerful explosions. He used the Force to protect him.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Legend, don't patronize me. No-one, myself included, takes you seriously. Count yourself lucky I'm bored enough to stoop to debating you.
I don't care. I rely on logic and brain because I have some grasp of reality. You actually don't. Your assertions are particularly laughable in this thread.

Originally posted by Nephthys
If body armor can protect you from lightsaber strikes, why need stormtroopers?

Typical blind Legend.
Don't try to act smart genius. Why do armies use Amored Vehicles in battles? Because Armored Vehicles offer much greater protection to vulnerable troops from heavy firepower. Same logic applies in Star Wars.

Typical blind Nephthys who fails to understand any logic. Do you suck in IQ test?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Again, how the **** does that show he's strong? Did he punch the explosion!?
He was standing right there even after the impact of powerful explosions. That is bad@ss.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Or the ability to use the Force. Are you really this ignorant or are you just doing a good impression.
And you think that Anakin and Count Dooku are not using the Force to augment their strengths when they perform impressive moves? They always do.

Originally posted by Nephthys
You yourself have said that Jedi can amplify their physical strength with the Force. Guess what, alot of Jedi can do this. Being able to lift someone one-handed is not a particularly overwhelming feat. In Tales of the Jedi Exar Kun and Sylvar both replicate this.
Yes, same applies to Anakin and Count Dooku. Force is what grants Jedi and Sith superhuman abilities.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No dumbass, he's using his robotic hand. You can't augment a robot hand with the Force.
Tell that to Darth Vader. And you previously stated bare hands. Do you even understand the difference between a bare hand of flesh and a robotic hand?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Again, so what? He just lifted him up. Theres nothing indicating he snapped his/her neck.
Ok, my mistake. He choked him to death but he did this with his single hand. He also killed a prominent Sith Lord with his bare hands, remember?

Originally posted by Nephthys
You're a real idiot, you know that?
Then no need to belittle feats of Malgus.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I was using a colorful turn of phrase.
Stick to realism.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Anakin did not tap into his true potential, instead becoming a feral, insane lunatic.
This is no justification. He was trying just as hard against Obi-Wan. Difference is that Obi-Wan presented a different kind of challenge to him (Soresu) and Anakin failed to find an opening.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No it wasn't you utter insect. That you are too blind to understand basic logic does not make the point unnecessary. The point being that Grievous is incredibly strong, stronger than Malgus, and Dooku was able to block him with one hand.
I understood your point. Grievous is physically strong because of being machine. However, can he match the power of the Force? He cannot.

Originally posted by Nephthys
THAT DOES NOT CHANGE THE POINT!

Dooku is strong enough to easily block a cyborg with superstrength with ONE HAND! That alone proves that he is more that capable of dealing with Malgus' pitiful strength. I can't tell at this stage whether your actually missing the point or if you're pretending to be ignorant because you know you can't refute my points legitimately.
Do you even understand that how lightsaber dueling occurs? Count Dooku would have augmented his physical strength to withstand the powerful strokes of Grievous.

Originally posted by Nephthys
He is, but whatever, its not important.
Not like Dooku and Malgus.

Malgus can radiate power with just expressions of rage;

Anger refilled him, overcame him. A shout of hate, raw and jagged, burst from his throat. Power went with it, shattering a nearby column and sending a rain of stone shards through the room.

Originally posted by Nephthys
So what? We're talking about Malgus' physical strength, not his Force strength. You think Dooku cannot also perform powerful Force attacks? Please.
Did I said that Count Dooku cannot? However, he has limits. Because of his old age, he will tire out sooner.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yes, you've posted both for me to read. He does not impress me in the slightest.
Because of your epic fanboyism which is clouding your judgement.

You are impressed by Lsu taking on no-name Sith and Bane on no-name Dark Acolytes but you are not impressed by Malgus killing another powerful Sith Lord. Bravo.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yes it is sufficient. If you continue to ignore my evidence like a coward then I will stop replying to you. Oh and:

WIj7gIDFDe4

3 of those Jedi were Jedi Council Members.
Grievous is skilled. No one doubts this. However, he is not exceptional. If he was such a bad@ss, why he failed to defeat lone Obi-Wan?

And not all PT era Jedi were powerful. Many of them sucked.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Grievous is faster and stronger than Malgus. And Dooku toyed with him. This is an incredibly impressive feat.
And this is why you should not be taken seriously. What makes you think that Grievous stands a chance against Malgus? Malgus will school him with his force powers without much difficulty.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Dooku is capable of holding a saberlock with abeing who can lift a house-sized gun and its irrelevent? Ok, if you say so.
You so damn stupid. Yoda would have used the Force to lift that heavy object. What does that feat has any relevance to dueling abilities of Yoda?

Originally posted by Nephthys
There were reinforcements in coming. Also if he had not left at that point he may not have been able to get off the planet and past any Republic ships. There are numerous reasons.
Or Yoda would have subdued him?

Originally posted by Nephthys
As long as you keep in mind that the reverse is also true.
No. Malgus is more powerful then him.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Agreed. And since Dooku is superior to him with a lightsaber.....
This is just an assumption. He is not invincible in lightsaber combat. Just vastly overhyped. Malgus is capable of performing powerful strokes.

Originally posted by Nephthys
So? Speed doesn't matter as much as strength remember.
By speed, I mean't bladework. The bladework of Vindican is better then his.

Originally posted by Nephthys
That Opress was able to do that and Grievous was not simply speaks about his strength, not Dooku's weakness. And Dooku was able to simply dance around his attacks without a lightsaber anyway.
Assaj performed shitty moves to hit Count Dooku in the early stage. And he easily dodged her.

In addition, Count Dooku relied heavily on his force powers to stop Oppress who was more dominating then her because of his greater strength.

In the end, Assaj performed some good acrobatics to nullify the advantage of Count Dooku's dueling abilities and he once again relied on his force powers to disarm her.

Count Dooku is good. But he is not unstoppable. Thanks for the video though.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Again your stupid rule of judging someone by 'prominent kills'. And why not? Opress is stronger than Malgus, can walk through less Jedi and has comparable Force Strength.
You don't know if Oppress is stronger then Malgus. You are just speculating. Malgus has far more feats to his name in comparison.

Originally posted by Nephthys
How does that respond to my point? Dooku dominating Asajj is a damn impressive feat for him given how powerful she is. Do not ignore this.
Addressed above on the basis of the video you shared. Force powers of Count Dooku cannot stop Malgus.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I have gotten a proper backing on them in the past, in the Dooku vs Vader thread. And they are easily over a dozen tons.
Confirm through canonical sources. I will not accept speculations.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No, not impressive. Not even close.
Only in your deluded mind.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
This is very shortsighted logic. Lightsaber cannot cut through everything in the first place. Also, some objects are harder to cut through then others. Starship parts are typically made of very durable materials.

Here is an analogy: A shark can have mouth filled with razer sharp teeth which can cut through flesh like knives through butter. However, the bite force plays a significant role behind the total damage inflicted on the victim's body in a single chomp.

It can cut through steel easily enough. And prove that the thing Kao threw at him with 'very durable.' I'll be waiting.

And on the other hand I can press a blunt knife very hard against my finger and not break the skin, and yet a peice of paper can accidentally slice it open with very little pressure at all. This is because of how thin it is, which makes it very sharp. Now

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Starship parts are very durable.

'Confirm through canonical sources. I will not accept speculations.'

What, are you allowed to speculate and I am not? You are so full of shit.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Listen kid, you need some serious reality check.

I have performed this experiment myself. The saw is indeed designed to cut through the wood. However, the more force I apply, the faster I cut through.

Try this yourself.

Listen old man, you need to retire. Get yourself on a cruise somewhere and let a cabin boy pork you until you feel better about getting your ass kicked by me.

I did. First I tried to cut it with a spoon, putting alot of pressure on it, but I couldn't even make a little cut.

Then I used a saw, only putting a small amount of pressure on it. But it was still cut! I was so happy!

Come at me bro

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
It might be but still the force behind the strokes matter a lot.

But he doesn't do a stroke. He just jumps at it with his lightsaber held out in front of him.

Watch the video again, 4.48 :

OzdCdRPESps

When he emerges from the flames his lightsaber isn't moving at all. He made no swing, he didn't attack at all, he just jumped at it.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Watch the video again. Malgus force jumped towards the Starship engine and destroyed it in mid-air:

http://i44.tinypic.com/301houd.png

And he tolerated all that explosion in the process.

Pfft, it didn't even set his cloak on fire.

That was a completely different example. It was not the same as the blasts the Trooper was firing at Malgus that destroyed those droids.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Not necessarily. Jedi and Sith mostly rely on the Force to protect themselves from dangerous attacks, if they are strong enough.

So Malgus wears that armor purely because it makes him look cool then?

Open your ****ing eyes.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
And body armor offers limited protection. If you wear the best bulletproof jacket in the world, it will offer you good protection against bullets and sharpnel. However, it cannot save you from RPG hits.

A bulletproof vest is not the same as futuristic full-body armor.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Battle Droids can be enormous in size and very heavily armored.

Watch this video:

PqkSzHOzQj4

At 1:41, the Bounty Hunter destroys a large Droid with a single rocket or RPG hit. And he uses the Forcefield to save himself from dangerous attacks.

Progression videos depict gameplay and are non-canon. That video is not useable as evidence.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Stormtroopers are vulnerable to powerful explosions. Even Vader's armor offers limited protection against powerful explosions.

Here;

He raised his gloved hands to defend himself, but the battery continued until, with a crash, the apprentice ripped the energy field generator in the center of the room right out of the floor and hurled it at his former Master.

The generator exploded with greater force than he had expected, throwing him and everyone else to the floor. The transparisteel dome shattered. Debris rained everywhere. The sound of the explosion rang in his ears for an unnaturally long time afterward.

He was the first to his feet, striding across the rubble to where Darth Vader lay face-forward, gravely wounded and stripped of his armor in places. Flesh and machinery showed through the gaps. Finally, some real blood was flowing.

His armor did not do any wonders. It cannot protect him from such powerful explosions. He used the Force to protect him.

Stormtrooper armor is vulnerable to sticks and rocks, as shown in RotJ. However here we can see Vaders armor tank Lukes direct ligtsaber strike:

7hsAybFZgdk

5.16.

As to that quote, so? Vader had been struck numerous times already by Starkillers lightsaber at that point, and the explosion of the shield generator was far bigger than anything Malgus faced.

But again you miss my point, which is that fodder like Stormtroopers and basic battle droids are not heavily as armored as Sith Lords will be. Its a basic part of warfare, the higher up you are, the greater your resources will be.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I don't care. I rely on logic and brain because I have some grasp of reality. You actually don't. Your assertions are particularly laughable in this thread.


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Don't try to act smart genius. Why do armies use Amored Vehicles in battles? Because Armored Vehicles offer much greater protection to vulnerable troops from heavy firepower. Same logic applies in Star Wars.

Typical blind Nephthys who fails to understand any logic. Do you suck in IQ test?

I don't try to act smart, it just comes naturally to me. http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-smug.gif

And we're not talking about Armored Vehicles, we're talking about shitty little battle droids.

No, I just.... don't test very well. :C

(Yes, I'm taking the piss out of you)


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
He was standing right there even after the impact of powerful explosions. That is bad@ss.



'Malgus iz moch kewler! He must be able to defeat that stoopid old Dooku!'


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
And you think that Anakin and Count Dooku are not using the Force to augment their strengths when they perform impressive moves? They always do.

So? Is Dooku not allowed o do that in this thread? I think he is, it is my thread after all.


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Yes, same applies to Anakin and Count Dooku. Force is what grants Jedi and Sith superhuman abilities.

Again, so ****ing what? Malgus no doubt does the same. The point is that Dooku can augment his strength to the point that Malgus' attacks are not going to matter to him.


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Tell that to Darth Vader. And you previously stated bare hands. Do you even understand the difference between a bare hand of flesh and a robotic hand?

Don't be pedantic. I showed the freaking image. Its not my fault you can't tell the difference between flesh and metal.


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Ok, my mistake. He choked him to death but he did this with his single hand. He also killed a prominent Sith Lord with his bare hands, remember?

Yes, I remember. He choked him to death. Truely he is the Hulk of Star Wars.


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
This is no justification. He was trying just as hard against Obi-Wan. Difference is that Obi-Wan presented a different kind of challenge to him (Soresu) and Anakin failed to find an opening.

Yes it is. Anakin defeated Dooku by tapping into his true power and by fighting at a level he has never achieved before or since. He was not in that state when he fought Obi-Wan. He was insane with anger and grief. He even Force Choked Padme, who he had done everything for including murdering children. Do you know how much a Sith's mental and emotional state can affect their performance. Why not look at Malgus. Only when he harnessed his rage was he able to defeat Kao. Anakin was not harnessing his rage, it was harnessing him.


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I understood your point. Grievous is physically strong because of being machine. However, can he match the power of the Force? He cannot.

That does not matter. I'm not talking about him fighting someone with the Force. Dooku fought him blade to blade and blocked his blows casually and with a single hand. This proves Dooku can fight against strong opponents easily.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Do you even understand that how lightsaber dueling occurs? Count Dooku would have augmented his physical strength to withstand the powerful strokes of Grievous.

And he can do the same against Malgus. With Malgus' only advantage being his strength, which Dooku can neutralise, Dooku will undoubtably win.


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Not like Dooku and Malgus.

Malgus can radiate power with just expressions of rage;

Anger refilled him, overcame him. A shout of hate, raw and jagged, burst from his throat. Power went with it, shattering a nearby column and sending a rain of stone shards through the room.

Actually that was a Force Scream. Anakin did the same thing at the end of RotS and during Labyrinth to break a roof.


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Did I said that Count Dooku cannot? However, he has limits. Because of his old age, he will tire out sooner.

It won't be an endurance contest. Dooku is superior in speed and technique and he'll kill Malgus before he starts getting tired.


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Because of your epic fanboyism which is clouding your judgement.

You are impressed by Lsu taking on no-name Sith and Bane on no-name Dark Acolytes but you are not impressed by Malgus killing another powerful Sith Lord. Bravo.


No, because he didn't do anything. He got the complete shit kicked out of him.


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Grievous is skilled. No one doubts this. However, he is not exceptional. If he was such a bad@ss, why he failed to defeat lone Obi-Wan?

And not all PT era Jedi were powerful. Many of them sucked.

Because Obi-Wan is also a bad@ss. You underestimate him.

Which is why Lucas referred to them as the Golden Age of the Jedi I'm sure.

Shaaki Ti, Aayla and Ki Adi Mundi did not suck. The were on the Council for a reason.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
And this is why you should not be taken seriously. What makes you think that Grievous stands a chance against Malgus? Malgus will school him with his force powers without much difficulty.

And this is why you should not be taken seriously. You miss my points and do not understand what I'm talking about. I am talking purely about lightsaber combat. Dooku was able to effortlessly fight off Grievous with his lightsaber one handed despite the cyborg generals extreme capabilities, which are beyond Malgus'. Now you've asserted that the fight will be decided in lightsaber combat. If Dooku can fight Grievous so easily despite him being Malgus' superior, how can you possibly believe Malgus can defeat the Count?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You so damn stupid. Yoda would have used the Force to lift that heavy object. What does that feat has any relevance to dueling abilities of Yoda?

I am not the stupid one. He carried it on his back, he did not use the Force. If Yoda is physically strong enough to do that and yet Dooku can lock lightsabers with him and not be overwhelmed, then that means that Dooku must be incredibly strong himself.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Or Yoda would have subdued him?

A possibility. Not one that you can prove though. And you know how much I detest speculation.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
No. Malgus is more powerful then him.

You have not even begun to demonstrate this.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
This is just an assumption. He is not invincible in lightsaber combat. Just vastly overhyped. Malgus is capable of performing powerful strokes.



Oh my! 'Powerful strokes!' That means he must be a fantastic duelist! Theres no way Dooku will be able to match 'powerful strokes'! I mean, he's only one of the greatest lightsaber fighters in the mythos! But thats nothing compared to 'powerful strokes!'

You are pathetic.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
By speed, I mean't bladework. The bladework of Vindican is better then his.

I disagree.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Assaj performed shitty moves to hit Count Dooku in the early stage. And he easily dodged her.

In addition, Count Dooku relied heavily on his force powers to stop Oppress who was more dominating then her because of his greater strength.

In the end, Assaj performed some good acrobatics to nullify the advantage of Count Dooku's dueling abilities and he once again relied on his force powers to disarm her.

Count Dooku is good. But he is not unstoppable. Thanks for the video though.

In what way were they shitty? Asajj is a very capable duelist. Even Darth Sidious refered o her as 'a skilled warrior.'

Dooku also dodged his blade easily enough. He made Savage's attacks look like jokes. Another indication of his fantastic duelling ability.

Yes, the Count is very strong to be able to do that. You yourself admitted how powerful and skilled she is in telekinesis, and yet he easily levitates and disarms her.

I never said he was unstoppable. Nor is Malgus. Dooku does not need to be unstoppable to defeat him.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You don't know if Oppress is stronger then Malgus. You are just speculating. Malgus has far more feats to his name in comparison.

Dooku was able to block Anakin and Grievous' blows without much effort and yet a single strike from Oppress sent him flying. And Anakin and Grievous are both stronger than Malgus.

Do the math.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Addressed above on the basis of the video you shared. Force powers of Count Dooku cannot stop Malgus.

'This is just an assumption. He is not invincible in Force combat. Just vastly overhyped. Dooku is capable of performing powerful Force attacks.'

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Confirm through canonical sources. I will not accept speculations.

Your hypocracy is astounding.

I'll do it when my internet connection is less shitty.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yes it is. Anakin defeated Dooku by tapping into his true power and by fighting at a level he has never achieved before or since.
How to you know this? Even if this is true, Anakin was still trying hard to overpower Obi-Wan as apparent from his assaults on him. We cannot ignore the fact that the strengths and weaknesses of Obi-Wan differ from those of Count Dooku.

Originally posted by Nephthys
He was not in that state when he fought Obi-Wan. He was insane with anger and grief.
By the time of Sacking of Coruscent, Malgus had learned to control his emotions perfectly. He used his emotions to actually fuel his power of the dark side. Anakin was not capable of doing this when he dueled with Obi-Wan. There is no comparison.

Originally posted by Nephthys
He even Force Choked Padme, who he had done everything for including murdering children.
He choked Padme before the duel but he did not knew that she would die. He still had hope for winning her back. He was not completely lost.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Do you know how much a Sith's mental and emotional state can affect their performance. Why not look at Malgus.
Yes, I am well aware of this. Malgus demonstrated exceptional control over his emotions during events of the Decieved.

Malgus used his distaste for Adraas to further feed his anger. He had requested that Darth Angral allow him to lead the attack alone, but Angral had insisted that Adraas lead the drop ship team.

Discarding his cloak, discarding the remaining restraints on his rage, Malgus joined the Sith charge, taking position before Adraas. Emotion fed his power, and its swell fairly lifted him from his feet. He felt the power of the dark side around him, within him.

He has vast experience and great command of the Force. He had one weakness; Eleena. He himself eliminated her so that she could not be used by others to exploit him emotionally.

Later on, he becomes even more powerful by doing this.

Thinking of Eleena blew oxygen on the embers of his anger. In life, Eleena had been his weakness, a tool to e exploited by rivals. In death, she had become his strength, her memory the lens of his rage.
He resided in the calm eye of a storm of hate. Power churned around him, within him. He did not feel as if he were drawing on the Force, using it. He felt as if he were the Force, as if he had merged with it.

He turns his weakness in to a source of exceptional strength.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Only when he harnessed his rage was he able to defeat Kao.
Yes

Originally posted by Nephthys
Anakin was not harnessing his rage, it was harnessing him.
That is a weakness of Anakin. He lacks the exceptional command of the dark side by that time.

Originally posted by Nephthys
That does not matter. I'm not talking about him fighting someone with the Force. Dooku fought him blade to blade and blocked his blows casually and with a single hand. This proves Dooku can fight against strong opponents easily.
Grievous is a physical brute but he cannot augment his physical strength with the Force. Get the point?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Like he nuetralized Oppress?

If Dooku augments his physical strength with the Force, so would Malgus. And Malgus would still have advantage because of his greater physical strength. There would be more power behind in his strokes in comparison to those of Count Dooku. Don't make half-@ssed assumptions.

No, like he nuetralized Anakin and Grievous's strength.

You're the one making half-assed assumptions. Malgus hasn't shown teh ability to augment his strength to that level. You're just assuming that he can do it without any proof at all. Weak. And you call me stupid.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Right. And Malgus repeated it again during his raid in the resting place of Lord Adrass destroying all objects around him.

Ok, cool I guess......

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
No, Count Dooku is not superior in speed and technique. Malgus performs lots of acrobatics in his duels. Endurance will matter in this struggle.

Performing loads of acrobatics does not make you a skilled duelist. It makes you a gymnist. Dooku going by feats is the superior fighter and swordsman. And he is much faster than Malgus. Sidious and Yoda were capable of blitzing multiple Jedi Masters at once, Sidious when he killed those trying to arrest him, and Yoda when he was training in a flashback and evaded Jedi Masters with lightsabers with ease, plus Yoda was able to keep up and in fact, disarm Sidious is lightsaber combat, proving he can move as fast as Sidous. And Dooku was able to keep up with Yoda. Thsi proves that Dooku has Force Speed beyond Malgus'

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Are you out of your mind?

Darth Malgus owned Lord Adrass, who was described in the form of black storm of energy.

Are you?

What does being a 'black storm of energy' even mean. Obviously thats simply hyperbole and a colorful metaphor. It doesn't make him impresive at all. All he demonstrated was the ability to use Force Lightning. The guy was trash.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
No, I don't. He is damn good but not exceptional. Count Dooku took good care of him.

Obi-Wan is very much exceptional. As Mace ut it, he was 'the master' of Soresu. And here is his fight against Grievous:

'So now, facing the tornado of annihilating energy that is Grievous's attack, Obi-Wan simply is who he is.

The electrodrivers powering Grievous's mechanical arms let each of the four attack thrice in a single second; integrated by combat algorithms in the bio-droid's electronic network of peripheral processors, each of the twelve strikes per second came from a different angle with different speed and intensity, an unpredictably broken rhythm of slashes, chops, and stabs of which every single one could take Obi-Wan's life. Not one touched him.

After all, he had often walked unscathed through hornet-swarms of blasterfire, defended only by the Force's direction of his blade; countering twelve blows per second was only difficult, not impossible. His blade wove an intricate web of angles and curves, never truly fast but always just fast enough, each motion of his lightsaber subtly interfering with three or four or eight of the general's strikes, the rest sizzling past him, his precise, minimal shifts of weight and stance slipping them by centimeters.

Grievous, snarling fury, ramped up the intensity and velocity of his attacks-sixteen per second, eighteen-until finally, at twenty strikes per second, he overloaded Obi-Wan's defense. So Obi-Wan used his defense to attack. A subtle shift in the angle of a single parry brought Obi-Wan's blade in contact not with the blade of the oncoming lightsaber, but with the handgrip. -slice-

The blade winked out of existence a hairbreadth before it would have burned through Obi-Wan's forehead. Half the severed lightsaber skittered away, along with the duranium thumb and first finger of the hand that had held it.

Grievous paused, eyes pulsing wide, then drawing narrow. He lifted his maimed hand and stared at the white-hot stumps that held now only half a useless lightsaber.

Obi-Wan smiled at him.

Grievous lunged.

Obi-Wan parried.

Pieces of lightsabers bounced on the durasteel deck.

Grievous looked down at the blade-sliced hunks of metal that were all he had left in his hands, then up at Obi-Wan's shining sky-colored blade, then down at his hands again, and then he seemed to suddenly remember that he had an urgent appointment somewhere else.

Anywhere else.'

But I'm sure you're just going to say that Grievous is no match for a truly powerful Jedi blah blah blah.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Irrelevant. That statement does not means much. There were some great Jedi Masters in that Order. However, every member was not exceptional. And this is apparent from canonical sources approved by Lucas himself.

How can that statement not mean much. Its from George ****ing Lucas, talking about the Jedi as being the pinnacle of their entire history. Yes, not every member is exceptional, but the three that Grievous defeated damn sure were.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Snipped for space

I never said he was slow or unskilled. But he is not a match for Dooku, as I have proven again and again.


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Face palm intended? Are you DRUNK?

How come Yoda carry a large object on his back when he uses the Force to lift an X-Wing fighter or a senate Pod?

Damn man! You are indeed full of shit.

Are you questioning whether it actually happened? Because it did. What exactly was the point of this? Whats your reply? That its dumb? I agree its dumb. But its canon whether I like it or not. So shut up and accept it.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You detest speculation but you yourself are in to them? Fine joke of a person you are.

Also, you think Master Yoda cannot defeat Count Dooku in lightsaber combat?

Only idiots will take you seriously now.

If he could, why did he not do that in AotC?

Think carefully before you reply.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
He is comparabe to likes of Galen in this regard, as apparent from information provided above. No one has beaten him or managed to disarm him in lightsaber combat, genius.

Comparable to Galen in what way?

And so what if no-ones defeated him in lightsaber combat? That only proves that he's fought opponents weaker than him. Does that mean he cannot be defeated by anyone? Get your mouth off Malgus' cyborg cock and think again.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Watch again. Vindican has more refined lightsaber skills then those of Oppress. He is also faster then Darth Maul.

Stop overhyping every Tom, D**k, and Harry of PT era Jedi who stood up to Count Dooku. Count Dooku is not the greatest duelist in Star Wars mythos.

I disagree. Oppress showed a great amount of skill when he faced down that hanger full of battle-droids. He must of been deflecting about 20 blaster bolts a second or something.

No, you stop overhyping every character from the KotOR-era. Count Dooku is one of the greatest duelists, which is why you need to be pretty ****ing special to be put above him in that regard.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Look at her opening moves. Those were shitty when she tried to hit the Count. She is not PERFECT.

Thats merely the way the Clone Wars characters fight. If you think its shitty, thats your deal. But in canon, she is an extremely capable swordsman.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Oppress dueled much better then Assaj and overpowered Count Dooku in one instance. Of course, not every strike of his would do wonders. His performance was around 80% to that of Vindican in this video.

I would disagree personally, I think Asajj did better than him. I also think he would have kicked Vindicans ass.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Malgus has disarmed stronger opponents. He even disarmed Satele Shan who would own Assaj in any scenario.

Not with the Force. Dooku is so powerful that he can completely dominate even powerful and skilled opponents like Asajj Ventress easily. You yourself were impressed by her, remember.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Count Dooku lacks the power to defeat Malgus.

This is your opinion. I've shown that he is, and that he will.


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Did any force powers stopped Malgus before? Not even those of Satele Shan who would own Count Dooku in combat.

You have reached the epitome of bullshitting now.

Erm, yes. At the end of the Hope video. Malgus was defeated, remember?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You have been owned in these posts. You are not making any sense here. Just quit, looser.

I may be loose, but I'm not a looser. Whatever that is.

Anyway those pillars are easily 20 tons, and thats being conservative.

Originally posted by Nephthys
And I will reply as I have before: You have shown precisely zero evidence that Malgus blocked that explosion with the Force. Do so or drop the point.
Even the finest of the body armor cannot withstand powerful explosions. This has been proven with the example of Darth Vader. Malgus used the Force to protect him. Start using that brain of yours.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Because he's cooler? Because you have a hard-on for KotOR-era people? You've already dropped the pretext of objectivity when you posted an argument merely stating that he's badass.
Same applies to your Count Dooku can beat Malgus comments, genius. No shit sherlock, Malgus is more powerful. This is the reason.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Irrelevent. Dooku has shown dealing very well against superior strength than Malgus', and boosting himself to a level beyond Malgus without much difficulty. Malgus has not demonstated the ability to surpass him in boosting his strength. Since this is your only argument for Malgus being able to win, you fail utterly.
Grievous surpasses the power of the Force? I did not knew this.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Anyone can be overpowered, including Malgus. Oppress is stronger than Malgus as I have proven and Dooku has dealt easily with opponents stronger than Malgus before.
Oppress is not stronger then Malgus. You have proved nothing. Malgus has killed his opponents with bare hands.

Also, Oppress's defences are weak. He cannot withstand Force lightning attacks. Malgus could move through them and redirect them back at his opponents.

Do the math.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Well if you don't know that Anakin has a robotic hand, then why are you even debating, lol. And my point was flawless thank you very much. If not, explain to me the flaws.
You came up with this argument in the first place:

Originally posted by Nephthys
Here we can see Anakin tear apart droids with his bare hands

You even understand the meaning of bare hands? You knew he was using a robotic hand to perform that feat.

So much for Anakin being a hulkster.

Let's cut down these middle-men Sith, the real thread should be made:

Thrilla in Manila 2: Neph vs. Legend

Too soon, man. Too soon.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Are you questioning whether it actually happened? Because it did. What exactly was the point of this? Whats your reply? That its dumb? I agree its dumb. But its canon whether I like it or not. So shut up and accept it.
He would have been using the Force to augmented his physical strength to a enormous degree. I have this source.

If Jedi really focus, they can perform incredible feats.

Originally posted by Nephthys
If he could, why did he not do that in AotC?

Think carefully before you reply.
Master Yoda managed to disarm Sidious, right? And Darth Sidious is better duelist then Cound Dooku, right?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Comparable to Galen in what way?
On the basis of information provided in canonical sources. And this is before he reaches the Zone State at the end of Decieved.

Originally posted by Nephthys
And so what if no-ones defeated him in lightsaber combat? That only proves that he's fought opponents weaker than him. Does that mean he cannot be defeated by anyone? Get your mouth off Malgus' cyborg cock and think again.
No, his opponents were some of the best in Galaxy. And he was exceptionally skilled in lightsaber combat.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I disagree. Oppress showed a great amount of skill when he faced down that hanger full of battle-droids. He must of been deflecting about 20 blaster bolts a second or something.
Oppress is skilled. I acknowledged this. However, he is below Vindican what you have shown.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No, you stop overhyping every character from the KotOR-era. Count Dooku is one of the greatest duelists, which is why you need to be pretty ****ing special to be put above him in that regard.
There are so many names in Star Wars mythos who are one of the greatest duelists. Does this makes Count Dooku unique? No. He is damn good and I use him as a benchmark to judge others. This should clear your mind. You accuse me of overhyping and yet you are much more in it. I have decided to put an end to the silly overhyping of PT era characters in this forum. Deal with it.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Thats merely the way the Clone Wars characters fight. If you think its shitty, thats your deal. But in canon, she is an extremely capable swordsman.
She is. However, she also has a history of making mistakes and misjudgements like all others. In Star Wars, no one is perfect.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I would disagree personally, I think Asajj did better than him. I also think he would have kicked Vindicans ass.
No, Oppress cannot kick Vindican's @ss because Vindican can dominate him with his Force lightning attacks.

Also, Assaj showed her abilities in the final scene with Dooku. She was good there. However, Dooku disarmed her with his Force powers.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Not with the Force. Dooku is so powerful that he can completely dominate even powerful and skilled opponents like Asajj Ventress easily. You yourself were impressed by her, remember.
Malgus surpasses Dooku in Decieved. He employs traits that made Anakin unstoppable.

Originally posted by Nephthys
This is your opinion. I've shown that he is, and that he will.
Your opinion is shortsighted.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Erm, yes. At the end of the Hope video. Malgus was defeated, remember?
That was Satele Shan, one of the most powerful Jedi in Star Wars mythos as a whole. She has titanic force abilities. She wiped out

Originally posted by Nephthys
I may be loose, but I'm not a looser. Whatever that is.
Yes. I take my words back. You are a good debator. I give this to you. However, you lack in the logical depth. If you manage to overcome this weakness, you will be a formidable debator.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Anyway those pillars are easily 20 tons, and thats being conservative.
No, they are not 20 tons.

This Bus is 40 foot long and 10 tons.

http://platicasnocturnas.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/greyhound-bus.jpg

This Bus alone is bigger in mass, even if all those pillars are combined.

Ok, so I asked some good folks who know math and calculate wieghts alot in their section of KMC. And the rough weight I got back for those stones was about 210 tons. haermm


I told you I was being conservative.


Edit: The reason is that they have much more mass than the bus, which is mostly a lightweight frame on top of an engine and wheels. By comparison, the pillars are completely solid. And rock is very heavy.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Ok, so I asked some good folks who know math and calculate wieghts alot in their section of KMC. And the rough weight I got back for those stones was about 210 tons. haermm


I told you I was being conservative.


Edit: The reason is that they have much more mass than the bus, which is mostly a lightweight frame on top of an engine and wheels. By comparison, the pillars are completely solid. And rock is very heavy.
Those calculations are way off charts. Those guys suck in mass lessons. Looks can be deceiving.

The total weight of Statue of Liberty is at 225 tons (without concrete foundation) and it is considerably bigger then all of those stones combined which Dooku lifted.

These are the stones:

http://i44.tinypic.com/10z718g.png

Count Dooku lifted 6 large stones and 4 small stones in total.

Naw look at this comparable example:

http://www.stonecarving7th.com/images/statue10.jpg

http://www.stonecarving7th.com/garden/statue_10.html

Each statue is 7 feet tall and weighs 800 kg. These are comparable in size to those large stones lifted by Count Dooku. The smaller stones would be much lighter; around 300 - 400 kg.

Total estimated weight lifted by Count Dooku is around 6400 kg of mass realistically. 7000 kg being maximum possible at those sizes.

You're way off:

http://images.tribe.net/tribe/upload/photo/234/e4a/234e4a71-ac90-45db-b967-3a02d380f069

Picture of an 8 ton boulder.

http://photos.signonsandiego.com/albums/ucsdbear/bear02.jpg

Picture of a 100 ton boulder.

Originally posted by Nephthys
You're way off:

http://images.tribe.net/tribe/upload/photo/234/e4a/234e4a71-ac90-45db-b967-3a02d380f069

Picture of an 8 ton boulder.

http://photos.signonsandiego.com/albums/ucsdbear/bear02.jpg

Picture of a 100 ton boulder.
No, these examples are not valid.

Those are boulders and they are considerably bulkier in mass in comparison to those thin stones lifted by Count Dooku. Use your eyes.

The stone statues which I used for comparison are valid references for those stones lifted by Count Dooku.

Those 'thin stones' were taller by at the very least half again than Dooku, who's 1.9 meters tall and broader than his shoulders at every point save the very tops. Even the small ones were chest height.

We're looking at about 3 tons for the small ones and about 10-20 for the big ones.

The stone statues you posted were likely hollow.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Those 'thin stones' were taller by at the very least half again than Dooku, who's 1.9 meters tall and broader than his shoulders at every point save the very tops. Even the small ones were chest height.

We're looking at about 3 tons for the small ones and about 20 for the big ones.

The stone statues you posted were likely hollow.
Look carefully. The angles of the camera are actually tricky.

Those large stones are around 7 feet tall actually or slightly taller. And mass wise, they are comparable to those 7 feet tall statues that I showed above.

Here is the best angle:

http://i41.tinypic.com/t8rcqs.png

None of those stones can weigh as much as you claim.

You are unusally exaggerating here.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Look carefully. The angles of the camera are actually tricky.

Those large stones are around 7 feet tall actually.

Here is the best angle:

http://i41.tinypic.com/t8rcqs.png

None of those stones can weigh as much as you claim.

You are unusally exaggerating here.

How the hell is that the best angle? Its crap, you can't even see the ground. And even then you can see they're bigger than that by comparison to Opress, who is 2.23 meters tall according to Wookiepedia.

Imo, this is the best angle and this is what I'm going by:

http://i44.tinypic.com/10z718g.png

I'm taking this from the word of people I trust to get these things right. They've been calculating weights of objects for years.

Originally posted by Nephthys
How the hell is that the best angle? Its crap, you can't even see the ground. And even then you can see they're bigger than that by comparison to Opress, who is 2.23 meters tall according to Wookiepedia.
That is the best angle because it shows stones from both sides in perfect clarity.

At maximum, those large stones would be 9 feet tall but they thin out too much at the top side. The statues which I posted are still valid reference.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Imo, this is the best angle and this is what I'm going by:

http://i44.tinypic.com/10z718g.png
This angle is not perfect. The stones on the right of Dooku look much larger then they actually are.

Still if you compare Oppress with the large stone on the middle, you will notice that it is not much taller then him.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm taking this from the word of people I trust to get these things right. They've been calculating weights of objects for years.
They estimated 210 tons, right?

Do your own research instead or consult some real professionals.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
That is the best angle because it shows stones from both sides in perfect clarity.

At maximum, those large stones would be 9 feet tall but they thin out too much at the top side. The statues which I posted do not thin out like that. They are still valid reference.


This angle is deceiving. The stones on the right of Dooku look much larger then they actually are.


They estimated 210 tons, right?

Do your own research instead or consult some real professionals.


Either way, I gave them the whole video. So they can use all the angles to decide it.

'Larger han they really are'? Thats what we're trying to establish. We don't know how big they 'really are.' If they look that big, they are that big.

What like you?

Thanks but I'd rather take their word for it. They actually use math, instead of your bizzaro logic. They laughed when I gave them your estimate.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Either way, I gave them the whole video. So they can use all the angles to decide it.

'What they really are'? Thats what we're trying to establish. If they look that big, they are that big.

What like you?

Thanks but I'd rather take their word for it. They actually use math, instead of your bizzaro logic. They laughed when I gave them your estimate.
They are stupid. Don't judge me on the basis of Star Wars debates.

Tell them that the Statue of Liberty weighs 225 tons and it is considerably larger in comparison to these stones.

Also, show them the link of the statues that I posted here and used for reference. Don't just give them half-baked information.

Here is the link again:

http://www.stonecarving7th.com/garden/statue.html

There are different kinds of stones. Not all of them have the same weight.

Also

And that the statue of liberty is a, and I quote;

"a hollow colossus composed of thinly pounded copper sheets over a steel framework"

And the picture of the 100 ton boulder.

Originally posted by Nephthys
There are different kinds of stones. Not all of them have the same weight.
I know. There weight differs on the basis of their masses. But they make good comparisons.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Also

And that the statue of liberty is a, and I quote;

"a hollow colossus composed of thinly pounded copper sheets over a steel framework"
It is still gigantic in size and weighs a lot accordingly.

Originally posted by Nephthys
And the picture of the 100 ton boulder.
Again, boulder is an invalid comparison. Its mass is enormous.

It doesn't matter how gigantic it is. Its thin and lightweight.

The boulder was not an invalid comparison. Those pillars have at least equal mass to it.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
http://agg.pnnl.gov/projects/nwst.pdf

"Geologist Bruce Bjornstad stands on a 15-foot-tall, 100-ton boulder that may have been rafted to its current location near Kennewick, Wash., by a giant iceberg during one of the last great ice age floods. Photo courtesy of Bruce Bjornstad/PNNL" look at the foto in thar.

If you want to see what they're actually saying just click the blue (post) part. Just don't bother them.

Originally posted by Nephthys
It doesn't matter how gigantic it is. Its thin and lightweight.

The boulder was not an invalid comparison. Those pillars have at least equal mass to it.
Since when did boulder became a valid comparison to an Obilisk like structure?

I will present much better comparison and expose those idiots. Just wait.

It was a comparison of scale.

Originally posted by Nephthys
If you want to see what they're actually saying just click the blue (post) part. Just don't bother them.
15 foot tall boulder weighs 100 tons, right?

Now here is a comparison:-

Look at this Obilisk:

http://www.crystalinks.com/obelisksensuretI.jpg

This one is 68 feet tall and weighs 120 tons. It is gigantic in mass.

Now you get my point?

Originally posted by Nephthys
It was a comparison of scale.
Not a valid one at all.

Neph those numbers are absurdly high.

They're not mine. But these guys know their stuff. I trust their math.

Originally posted by Nephthys
They're not mine. But these guys know their stuff. I trust their math.
I know my stuff too. I am good at focusing on the logical depth of things.

Math cannot resolve this mystery. As I proved with my example.

We don't know the materials from which those stones are made of. Some materials are heavier then others.

Also, input from some professional stone smith would be required here.

Regardless, you picked up the wrong topic here.

It is impressive feat. It shows the potential of Count Dooku. Those stones combined would have weighed several tons. So be done with this.

Its far greater than Malgus' feat. Proving that Dooku is superior when it comes to telekinesis.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I know my stuff too. I am good at focusing on the logical depth of things.

Math cannot resolve this mystery. As I proved with my example.

We don't know the materials from which those stones are made of. Some materials are heavier then others.
Yeah. We can make reasonable assumptions. Stone has a range of values, and If you took the time you would be able to look at both the maximum and minimum physically possible results of the showings, as well as the average (as I have done).

No, that's stupid.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20091209163442AA62GdK

http://www.simetric.co.uk/si_materials.htm

Originally posted by Nephthys
Its far greater than Malgus' feat. Proving that Dooku is superior when it comes to telekinesis.
This is a different feat performed under different circumstances. Dooku is in a calm environment where he can focus properly and he lifted the stones for a moment and then let go. This is it.

Malgus prevented a mountain of rubble comprising of Duracrete and Steel objects from crushing him to death, and blew it apart in to different directions. And he performed this feat while being injured. Also, he becomes more powerful later on.

This showing of Count Dooku is not greater in comparison and neither it compares to it. Don't try to trump feats of Malgus on the basis of basless assumptions.

Originally posted by Nephthys
They're not mine. But these guys know their stuff. I trust their math.
They didn't do Math. They eyeballed it. I'm getting something like 1.2 tons for the big ones, not 24 tons.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
This is a different feat performed under different circumstances.

Malgus prevented a mountain of rubble comprising of Duracrete and Steel objects from crushing him to death, and blew it apart in to different directions. And he does this while being injured.

This showing of Count Dooku is not greater in comparison and neither it compares to it. Don't try to trump feats of Malgus on the basis of basless assumptions.

It was not a 'mountain of rubble'. That is purely hyperbole. The exact words were 'several tons.' As I have shown, the meaning of several is 'more than one or two but not many.'

Dooku however casually lifted upwards of 20 tons. Thats a far superior feat. Note that Opress went on to do the same, so he is also Malgus' superior.


Originally posted by Zampanó
They didn't do Math. They eyeballed it. I'm getting something like 1.2 tons for the big ones, not 24 tons.

They do enough math that I'm comfortable in taking their estimates over Legends (who is a fool) logic and sorry to say your (I don't know how good at math you are) math.

Thanks Zampano, your input is appreciated.

Even 1.2 tons is high estimate for these stones but close to being realistic in my opinion.

Zam, you said 2.18 tons in your post.

Originally posted by Nephthys
It was not a 'mountain of rubble'. That is purely hyperbole. The exact words were 'several tons.' As I have shown, the meaning of several is 'more than one or two but not many.'
So now you are arguing with canonical sources?

Too late the rumble of the falling buildings penetrated the haze of Malgus's anger. An avalanche of duracrete and transparisteel crashed down on him from either side of the street.

Malgus stood in a pocket under a mountain of rubble, legs bent, the power from his upraised hands preventing several tons of duracrete and steel from crushing him. Dust made his already troubled breath more difficult.

He is doing this while he has yet to clear his mind and focus properly. Do you understand?

Then he realizes his mistake and focuses properly and afterwards:

Using the Force, he blew the rubble up and away from him. It fell with a crash on adjacent buildings.

He throws away tons of rubble like ragdoll.

Also, several tons is just an expression. I can say that a Greyhound Bus weighs several tons. It is 10 tons to be exact.

However, I can say that Antonov An-225 weights many tons.

Here is an example:



Not enough?

Here is another one:



From the same article:



Get the point?

Originally posted by Nephthys Dooku however casually lifted upwards of 20 tons. Thats a far superior feat. Note that Opress went on to do the same, so he is also Malgus' superior.
Your mass figures are speculation. Stop this bullshit.

Your attempts to overhype things are getting too much now. You went as far as to get over-inflated figures from some blokes who have no idea of what they are talking about.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Zam, you said 2.18 tons in your post.
That I did. I transposed the numbers. Correction: 2.1 tons.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
So now you are arguing with canonical sources?

Too late the rumble of the falling buildings penetrated the haze of Malgus's anger. An avalanche of duracrete and transparisteel crashed down on him from either side of the street.

Malgus stood in a pocket under a mountain of rubble, legs bent, the power from his upraised hands preventing several tons of duracrete and steel from crushing him. Dust made his already troubled breath more difficult.

He is doing this while he has yet to clear his mind and focus properly. Do you understand?

No, I'm arguing with your interpretation of canonical sources. 'A mountain of rubble' is not a literal statement. It is pure exaggeration/hyperbole and means absolutely nothing. The meaningful part would be the 'several tons' part, as that has clearly defined boundaries, being more than two, but not much more.

Now as to him being not in a clear state of mind, that is largely irrelevent. It would be speculation at best to try to establish how much he could lift in a clear frame of mind.

Quit asking me if I understand. I'm not the one speaking in a foreign language. Of course I understand.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Then he realizes his mistake and focuses properly and afterwards:

Using the Force, he blew the rubble up and away from him. It fell with a crash on adjacent buildings.

He throws away tons of rubble like ragdoll.

Also, several tons is just an expression. I can say that a Greyhound Bus weighs several tons. It is 10 tons to be exact.

However, I can say that Antonov An-225 weights many tons.

Thats your words. Theres nothing in there indicating he threw them away with ease or 'like a ragdoll'.

You could, but you would be incorrect. I think 10, being 5 times larger than 2 would easily count as 'much more' larger than 2.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Get the point?

Yes, I get your points. They're not exactly quantum physics.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Your mass figures are speculation. Stop this bullshit.

Not at all. Even if we go by Zam's low-ball estimate the numbers would still add up to greater than 20 tons. 2.2 tons x by 8 is 17.6 tons, and thats not even taking into account the 6 small pillars.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No, I'm arguing with your interpretation of canonical sources. 'A mountain of rubble' is not a literal statement. It is pure exaggeration/hyperbole and means absolutely nothing. The meaningful part would be the 'several tons' part, as that has clearly defined boundaries, being more than two, but not much more.
I am well aware of your mindset. You deliberately attemp to belittle the feats performed by Malgus. I don't understand that why are you so baised against this particular character. Disliking does not justifies unfair judgement.

It is not a hyperbole. The author explicitly stated this. He imagined the rubble looking a like a mountain. After all, two buildings crashed on Malgus. That would leave lot of rubble.

You are taking the meaning of the term 'several tons' out of context here. The author did not intended to give an particular figure. Just like Drew did not gave any figure when he stated 'tons' in case of Kas'im.

It is up to personal preference of the authors. Some say tons; some say several tons; and some say many tons.

I presented the example of Whale shark. In one statement, the term 'several tons' was used to describe its mass.

Within the same article, in another statement, the term 'many tons' was coined for this animal.

You cannot even understand examples?

'Not much more' is also a vague terminology. We don't know that exactly what level is used for term 'many tons.'

Originally posted by Nephthys
Now as to him being not in a clear state of mind, that is largely irrelevent. It would be speculation at best to try to establish how much he could lift in a clear frame of mind.
Here;

He'd been sloppy, so lost in his need for revenge that he'd failed to properly evaluate the Jedi's power. He's surrendered his reason to bloodlust.

This is his state of mind when those buildings crashed on him.

The Jedi or Sith without proper focus is always vulnerable. And yet what he does is beyond the scope of many. For example, Lord Kas'im failed to do anything in a similar situation.

After he finds himself trapped beneath the rubble, he realizes his mistake and then clears his state of mind:

But no more. With an effort of will, he contained his anger, controlled it, made it a whetstone against which he sharpened his power. Using the Force, he blew the rubble up and away from him. It fell with a crash on the adjacent buildings. A Force-augmented leap carried him out and over the heap. The Jedi's eyes widened as Malgus hit the street. Malgus sneered and charged.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Quit asking me if I understand. I'm not the one speaking in a foreign language. Of course I understand.
No, you clearly don't. Do you even have this source? I guess, no.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Thats your words. Theres nothing in there indicating he threw them away with ease or 'like a ragdoll'.
What does the word blew means?

And the rubble crash landed on adjacent buildings. Do you realize how much distance would that be?

And then you claim that you understand things.

Originally posted by Nephthys
You could, but you would be incorrect. I think 10, being 5 times larger than 2 would easily count as 'much more' larger than 2.
No. Several tons does not means 2 exactly, you numbskull.

I have given examples of people using the term several tons for describing stuff that collectively weigh much more then 2 tons.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yes, I get your points. They're not exactly quantum physics.

Not at all. Even if we go by Zam's low-ball estimate the numbers would still add up to greater than 20 tons. 2.2 tons x by 8 is 17.6 tons, and thats not even taking into account the 6 small pillars.
Again, this is your assumption. We don't know if they weigh as much. It is all vague. But their size suggests that they are not extremely heavy. But over-all the weight would be 'several tons'.

Get over it.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I am well aware of your mindset. You deliberately attemp to belittle the feats performed by Malgus. I don't understand that why are you so baised against this particular character. Disliking does not justifies unfair judgement.

I am not biased against this particular character. But I am debating against him. Naturally I would be opposing certain arguments you present for him. I wouldn't be debating against him if I would do anything else.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
It is not a hyperbole. The author explicitly stated this. He imagined the rubble looking a like a mountain. After all, two buildings crashed on Malgus. That would leave lot of rubble.

It is exactly hyperbole. It is one of the archetypical exaggerations used. Something is 'as large as a mountain' or 'as fast as lightning'. The phrasing 'a mountain of rubble' is more or less the very definition of hyperbole. I'm studying English at university. Do you seriously think I can't stop such an obvious example of hyperbole? Its a clear exaggeration, two measly buildings cannot produce a mountain of rubble. A mountain is thousands of feet high.

Its hyperbole. End of discussion.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You are taking the meaning of the term 'several tons' out of context here. The author did not intended to give an particular figure. Just like Drew did not gave any figure when he stated 'tons' in case of Kas'im.

Incorrect. The very word 'several' indicates multiple tons but not many. By using that word he has given an indication of amount.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
It is up to personal preference of the authors. Some say tons; some say several tons; and some say many tons.

I don't thinl you can have personal preference for which parts of the English language apply to your words, and which do not.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I presented the example of Whale shark. In one statement, the term 'several tons' was used to describe its mass.

Within the same article, in another statement, the term 'many tons' was coined for this animal.

That someone used it as such does not make automatically correct. People slip up and use incorrect words all the time.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You cannot even understand examples?

'Not much more' is also a vague terminology. We don't know that exactly what level is used for term 'many tons.'

'Not much more' is a clear example of logic. Can something be 'not much more' than something if its 5 times larger than the original figure? I think not. Clearly 'several tons' would indicate less than 10 tons, if not much less.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Here;

He'd been sloppy, so lost in his need for revenge that he'd failed to properly evaluate the Jedi's power. He's surrendered his reason to bloodlust.

This is his state of mind when those buildings crashed on him.

The Jedi or Sith without proper focus is always vulnerable. And yet what he does is beyond the scope of many. For example, Lord Kas'im failed to do anything in a similar situation.

After he finds himself trapped beneath the rubble, he realizes his mistake and then clears his state of mind:

But no more. With an effort of will, he contained his anger, controlled it, made it a whetstone against which he sharpened his power. Using the Force, he blew the rubble up and away from him. It fell with a crash on the adjacent buildings. A Force-augmented leap carried him out and over the heap. The Jedi's eyes widened as Malgus hit the street. Malgus sneered and charged.

That doesn't reply to my point. We know he can do better, because he goes on to do that, but we can't tell how much better he can be. Would he be able to lift, say, twice what he did there? Thrice? We have no way of knowing, and can only speculate at what his true upper limit would be. This is impossible to use in a debate, where speculation is pretty much worthless to use in your argument.

I also disagree quite heavily at it being 'beyond the scope of many'. Despite how much you've attempted to overhyper the feat, it is really not that impressive in the long run. Also Kas'im did not fail in a similar situation, because he was not in a similar situation. I'd hoped that you would understand that he's just blocked a Force Wave that levelled an entire temple and so was not able to block the collapse of said temple, but clearly you havn't.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
No, you clearly don't. Do you even have this source? I guess, no.

Why, are there pictures of how much he's lifting? You've given me the words, thats all a short story is and all I require to debate the text.


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
What does the word blew means?

And the rubble crash landed on adjacent buildings. Do you realize how much distance would that be?

And then you claim that you understand things.

Blew is the past tense of 'blow', which means to 'To be in a state of motion. Used of the air or of wind' or 'To move along or be carried by or as if by the wind'.

No, how wide are the streets?

Theres nothing wrong with my understanding.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
No. Several tons does not means 2 exactly, you numbskull.

I have given examples of people using the term several tons for describing stuff that collectively weigh much more then 2 tons.

Point out where I said that it did. Because I did not. And you question my understanding?

So? I could say that a Star Destroyer weighs 'several tons'. That would not make me correct.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Again, this is your assumption. We don't know if they weigh as much. It is all vague. But their size suggests that they are not extremely heavy. But over-all the weight would be 'several tons'.

Get over it.

Their size indicates they aren't extremely heavy? They're twice as tall as a human being and made out of solid rock! How the **** could they not be heavy?

The new weight is 118 tons total. Thats Bloodrains story and thats wha I'm sticking to.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Your comments show otherwise. And I never claimed Malgus is invincible. He is still among the upper tier Sith in Star War mythos as a whole.

No they don't. I've never said that Dooku was invincible, especially given that I provided the scene where he gets killed.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
It is not blank. It is the image of the explosion which is blinding at that moment. Do the math.

Its not adding up. When the camera moves directly into flames its hard to see? Yeah, no shit.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
They handled grenade explosions. Good enough? Rockets were too powerful for anything though.

Where? I just re-watched the trailer and I didn't see them handle grenade explosions. Are you lying?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Do you even bother rechecking the materials?

YQf1nas8BO4

From 1:07 to 1:11, 3 rockets are fired which destroy an entire advancing column of the Sith forces including Sith Warriors, Droids, and Troops. This move clears the path for the Republic Troops to launch an attack on the Sith Forces.



He does not destroy the entire advancing column. Jesus Christ. He destroy about 3 droids and some soldiers. We can clearly see later his rockets are enough to destroy 1 droid each at 1.29 and 1.33.

Your attempts to hype TOR up has gotten truly sad now.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Even the finest of the body armor cannot withstand powerful explosions. This has been proven with the example of Darth Vader. Malgus used the Force to protect him. Start using that brain of yours.

What, because one time after repeated beatings an explosion destroyed body armor, explosions are always going to destroy body armor. ****ing hell, how does that even slightly make sense?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Same applies to your Count Dooku can beat Malgus comments, genius. No shit sherlock, Malgus is more powerful. This is the reason.

No it can't. I've only posted evidence suggesting Dooku si stronger than Malgus. I've never posted something just because it makes him look cool. Get out of Malgus' bed and into the real world please.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Grievous surpasses the power of the Force? I did not knew this.

Motherfvcker, did I say that? I don't think so!

What I said was 'Grievous is stronger than Malgus.' Does than mean he's more powerful than the Force? NO, you idiot! It means hes stronger than Malgus! Can you respond to this logically or are you just going to 'misunderstand' me again?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Oppress is not stronger then Malgus. You have proved nothing. Malgus has killed his opponents with bare hands.

Opress is stronger going by feats. He was able to physically overpower Dooku when Dooku has had no problems dealling with Grievous and Anakin in the past.

And it doesn't make you strong if you strangle a guy.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Also, Oppress's defences are weak. He cannot withstand Force lightning attacks. Malgus could move through them and redirect them back at his opponents.

Do the math.

So? That was just because Dooku refused to teach him anything about Force Lightning so that Dooku could dominate him whenever he wanted and Opress couldn't fight back. I'm not saying Opress could beat Malgus, I'm saying he's physically stronger, and stronger in the Force.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You came up with this argument in the first place:



You even understand the meaning of bare hands? You knew he was using a robotic hand to perform that feat.

So much for Anakin being a hulkster.

Yes, it means a hand that is uncovered by any kind of fabric. Anakins hand was not. And yes, a robotic hand still counts as his hand.

How the **** does that eliminate the feat? He still ripped apart metal with his hand. He's still incredibly strong. And Dooku still blocked him and Obi-Wan one-handedly, as well as other times he's fought Anakin. What, do yo think he stopped having a robotic hand when he fought Dooku? That he grew his hand back? That it stopped being able to tear apart steel?

Now all bow before me. For I am Nephthys: King of the Nerds.

http://images.wikia.com/scrubs/images/8/85/2x19_King_of_the_nerds.jpg

Oh good gravy, a Fiver! I bow before thee, oh nerdy one.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I am not biased against this particular character. But I am debating against him. Naturally I would be opposing certain arguments you present for him. I wouldn't be debating against him if I would do anything else.
Yes, you are biased. You try to cheapen his feats and also the characters he engaged in combat. No matter how much you claim to be fair, your statements show otherwise. I am willing to reach an understanding with you, if you change your mentality here.

Originally posted by Nephthys
It is exactly hyperbole. It is one of the archetypical exaggerations used. Something is 'as large as a mountain' or 'as fast as lightning'. The phrasing 'a mountain of rubble' is more or less the very definition of hyperbole. I'm studying English at university. Do you seriously think I can't stop such an obvious example of hyperbole? Its a clear exaggeration, two measly buildings cannot produce a mountain of rubble. A mountain is thousands of feet high.

Its hyperbole. End of discussion.
It is not that much of an hyperbole. The rubble left by two buildings can be enormous in size. Not exactly comparable to a real mountain but still enormous for us. This is the intention of author.

Here is a good example:

http://luirig.altervista.org/cpm/albums/fema-12/05989-New-York--NY--September-21--2001----These-FEMA-rescue-workers---.jpg

Originally posted by Nephthys
Incorrect. The very word 'several' indicates multiple tons but not many. By using that word he has given an indication of amount.
What is the minimum predefined limit of 'many'?

Originally posted by Nephthys
I don't thinl you can have personal preference for which parts of the English language apply to your words, and which do not.
Authors can choose the words as they may like. They are not writing an essay on English grammer in the case of Star Wars.

Originally posted by Nephthys
That someone used it as such does not make automatically correct. People slip up and use incorrect words all the time.
Again, what is the minimum predefined limit of 'many'?

Originally posted by Nephthys
'Not much more' is a clear example of logic. Can something be 'not much more' than something if its 5 times larger than the original figure? I think not. Clearly 'several tons' would indicate less than 10 tons, if not much less.
Several tons can be any figure that is not too high.

Another example:


Source: http://www.travelchannel.co.uk/series-info.asp?series=People+of+the+Sea&ID=1408

Originally posted by Nephthys
That doesn't reply to my point. We know he can do better, because he goes on to do that, but we can't tell how much better he can be. Would he be able to lift, say, twice what he did there? Thrice? We have no way of knowing, and can only speculate at what his true upper limit would be. This is impossible to use in a debate, where speculation is pretty much worthless to use in your argument.
This is good point.

My intended point is that he is trapped under a large and heavy rubble and he prevents himself from getting crushed even when he is not in a clear state of mind. Then he focuses and throws the rubble away from him in different directions and the objects land on nearby buildings. And he performs this feat when he is badly injured as a result of his previous duel. This is very impressive feat and few may match him or do better under these circumstances.

Also, Malgus becomes more powerful afterwards.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I also disagree quite heavily at it being 'beyond the scope of many'. Despite how much you've attempted to overhyper the feat, it is really not that impressive in the long run. Also Kas'im did not fail in a similar situation, because he was not in a similar situation. I'd hoped that you would understand that he's just blocked a Force Wave that levelled an entire temple and so was not able to block the collapse of said temple, but clearly you havn't.
You don't understand the intensity of this feat. This is why you continue to underrate it. I don't think that 'many' would be able to perform this feat and that too under the stressful circumstances in which Malgus found himself.

Kas'im's situation is very similar. Yes, he engaged Bane in a duel before and he was fine. And yet Kas'im lacked the power to stop the rubble from crushing him.

In comparison, Malgus also engaged in a duel prior to this event and was seriously injured. But he still packed serious punch. No matter how much you try to elevate Kas'im, he is not as powerful as Malgus.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Why, are there pictures of how much he's lifting? You've given me the words, thats all a short story is and all I require to debate the text.
Unfortunately, there no pictures. However, the intended message is clear that Malgus is bad@ss.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Blew is the past tense of 'blow', which means to 'To be in a state of motion. Used of the air or of wind' or 'To move along or be carried by or as if by the wind'.
Here is more elaborated description:

A powerful stroke with a hand, weapon, or hard object.

A strong wind: "we're in for a blow".

Originally posted by Nephthys
No, how wide are the streets?

Theres nothing wrong with my understanding.
Width of street is not mentioned.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Point out where I said that it did. Because I did not. And you question my understanding?
But your statements are confusing. You are using 2 as a benchmark figure when there is no predefined limit of several. What is it? 10, 20, 30, 40.........? What?

Originally posted by Nephthys
So? I could say that a Star Destroyer weighs 'several tons'. That would not make me correct.
Star Destroyer is a gigantic vessel. Obviously we will use the term 'many tons'.

However, we can use the term 'several tons' for a large and heavy object. It may not be gigantic but it can be very large for us.

For example;

This thing weighs many tons:

http://www.airplane-pictures.net/images/uploaded-images/2008-1/16/9461.jpg

This things weighs several tons:

http://www.dimensionsguide.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/Tractor-Trailer.jpg

Intended message is that several tons can still be a decent figure. Not too much but impressive.

Get the point?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Their size indicates they aren't extremely heavy? They're twice as tall as a human being and made out of solid rock! How the **** could they not be heavy?

The new weight is 118 tons total. Thats Bloodrains story and thats wha I'm sticking to.
This is still way off charts.

Here is another shot:

http://i42.tinypic.com/2ag1abs.png

Now look at this Orbilisk made of Granite stone (solid material):

http://i42.tinypic.com/24mrdcn.png

This weighs around 1800 kg.

Do the math now.

I will respond to your other statemenst when I would have time.

http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ln1miqGuzb1qdvu92o1_400.jpg

Hey, I posted that first.

Nah.

Yah. Royalties, now.

I have about 10 pounds in all the world. You'll need to tear it from my cold, marble, oddly erotic hands first.

Sounds kinky. I'll need a passport though.

excellent

victory is mine

For the record, Dooku loses because Malgus attacks with FORCE RAGE and KINETIC ENERGY STRENGTH.

Oh, I know Malgus wins. Malgus can harness his RAGE. Therefore he is as powerful as Zonakin.

Which makes him almost as strong as dividing by zero.

whathefuk

Hax.

Dooku he had the better master and far more experience and brute strenght is not enough to break through dooku and dooku is far more poweful in the force so if sabers won't do the trick than the force will so in term of blade to blade combat I give the edge to dooku at a chance of 7/10, force abilities 9/10
All out I'd give him 7.5/10

I want to say Dooku but Malgus is just a straight up tank. He's so f***ing durable, he'd outlast Dooku and tire him out then pound on his ass similar to the ROTJ Luke vs Vader rage moment. Dooku will land his blows, but Malgus' armor will take the brunt of them.

Neph in 2011 is an interesting and quite beautiful sight indeed.

Originally posted by |King Joker|
Neph in 2011 is an interesting and quite beautiful sight indeed.

ILS and I have discussed this and have a theory. At some point between 2012-2014, Neph was taken and is now being impersonated by an alien lizard.

Keep an eye on his posts.

Actually it's funny because even though I feel I was "winning" this debate quite a lot (and still think Bane>Malgus), Legends arguments swayed me considerably into respecting Malgus immensely, even though I'd never have admitted that at the time.

So it's worth noting that a few of my arguments here are probably a bit deceptive.

Malgus isn't even near to be as strong as Zonakin. Zonakin would stomp him.

Malgus is - by small margin - inferior to Dooku and people of his league. Mace, Vader or Anakin - they all would beat Malgus. Malgus is good, but not that good.

Malgus wreck ! Everybody know that !

No!

Too bad Malgus is better than Bane in just about everything.

Originally posted by McP
Malgus isn't even near to be as strong as Zonakin. Zonakin would stomp him.

Malgus is - by small margin - inferior to Dooku and people of his league. Mace, Vader or Anakin - they all would beat Malgus. Malgus is good, but not that good.

Malgus is above Dooku though. I'd love to see Dooku ragdoll 3 of the Swtor protagonists while fighting a 4th. Or blast back the Swtor Strike Teams.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Malgus is above Dooku though. I'd love to see Dooku ragdoll 3 of the Swtor protagonists while fighting a 4th. Or blast back the Swtor Strike Teams.

Couldn't Malgus have just caught them unprepared?

Or is Zayne Carrick (back when he was at his most inept IIRC) simultaneously disarming the 5 masters of the Covenant of their lightsabers as he made his escape from Taris an actual indication of his raw power now?

That said, I'd agree with the assessment, just not the reasoning

I like more straight forward shows of force power like Dooku overpowering Anakin's TK in that desert fight in TCW. Makes A>B>C less messy.

3 times in a row? First he brings the Imperial Strike Team to it's knee's with lightning mid-conversation. Then at the end of that conversation he leaps down and blasts the team back (even if they were somehow off guard by that rather telegraphed attack I can't imagine them having NO defense). Then he ragdolls 3 of them mid-fight and holds them in the air while fighting the 4th. So even if they were off guard again, midcombat, that still suggests they couldn't break out of his hold and he could still fight the last one. Ragdolling someone without them being able to break free is a straight forward showing imo.

So I mean unless the Swtor protags are the dumbest bunch of yokels ever....

Originally posted by Nephthys
Malgus is above Dooku though. I'd love to see Dooku ragdoll 3 of the Swtor protagonists while fighting a 4th. Or blast back the Swtor Strike Teams.
Only half of that team is even Force Sensitive though.

And the 2 who aren't are Dooku+ Force users.....

Not really.

That being said, I have these too pretty even.

Kind of hard to deny that Nox is Dooku level at least.

It would be if I placed most of Nox's opponents highly, but I'm kind of one the fence about that placing.

Could go either way. I would give Dooku a 5.5-6/10 win tho.