Who can take JLA/Avengers Krona?

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Stoic
Does anyone have any idea because I can't think of one entity capable of taking him down, based on on level that he was operating on... sans the PIS feat that actually stopped him.

TELL MEEEE!!!! big grin

zopzop
Do pre retcon Beyonder and MM count? If not : Scathan, Protege, PISless LT, Mxy, Mandrakk, GEB, any competent HotU user, HoM Wanda, MJJ, any competent user of the Nexus of All Realities. Honorable mention : any competent Starbrand user (the LT feared it).

JakeTheBank
Dr. Doom.

Stoic
Originally posted by zopzop
Do pre retcon Beyonder and MM count? If not : Scathan, Protege, PISless LT, Mxy, Mandrakk, GEB, any competent HotU user, HoM Wanda, MJJ, any competent user of the Nexus of All Realities. Honorable mention : any competent Starbrand user (the LT feared it). Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Dr. Doom.



But what I don't get, is that how any of those guys are above an Infinity Gauntlet user, and if that's not enough, what about all of those other powerful artifacts?

Wasn't Krona more powerful than all of those artifacts combined, or is my perceptions of JLA/Avengers wrong?

zopzop
Originally posted by Stoic
But what I don't get, is that how any of those guys are above an Infinity Gauntlet user, and if that's not enough, what about all of those other powerful artifacts?

Wasn't Krona more powerful than all of those artifacts combined, or is my perceptions of JLA/Avengers wrong?

The LT is easily above the IG/Cosmic Cube/etc.... he's multiversal. As is the Protege (who surpassed him) and Scathan (who manhandled the Protege) and the HotU (which owned the LT and all other abstracts in 616 reality). GEB is an evil Presence (both are multiversal). Mandrakk was above even that. Mxy, MJJ, Nexus of All Realities, and HoM Wanda are OMNIVERSAL.

With the Starbrand, Erishikegal had power enough to challenge the LT and upset the balance of power in the multiverse.

Prep-Man
on dc side
carnivore from supergirl
wally the god boy
lucifer
mxy
shadow oblivion

guy222
wish dc had brought back wally

love the carnivore storyline

anyhoo, lt ftw

abhilegend
Quan's Thanos (If odin can't drop thanos, no one can. Odin is above TOAA and presence.)

Carver's Hulk (Hulk thunderclapped a freakin' dimensional barrier cast by Umar, a freaking dimensional barrier.)

H1a8 and shokosugi's superman (My calculations predict that force of 50 earth would be sufficient for combo to ko or THIS B LEVEL VILLAIN IS NO MATCH FOR SOOOPERMANNN......)

Wangster No.2
Wang takes him deeply!!!

cdtm
Drunk Lobo.

Cogito
Originally posted by zopzop
The LT is easily above the IG/Cosmic Cube/etc.... he's multiversal. As is the Protege (who surpassed him) and Scathan (who manhandled the Protege) and the HotU (which owned the LT and all other abstracts in 616 reality). GEB is an evil Presence (both are multiversal). Mandrakk was above even that. Mxy, MJJ, Nexus of All Realities, and HoM Wanda are OMNIVERSAL.

Hold up.

You trying to tell me that:
1. Mxy, MJJ, etc., because they've had the term "omniversal" thrown around, are greater than the likes of LT, HotU, GEB, the Presence, etc?
2. That Mandrakk is above the GEB/Presence?

confused

zopzop
Originally posted by Cogito
Hold up.

You trying to tell me that:
1. Mxy, MJJ, etc., because they've had the term "omniversal" thrown around, are greater than the likes of LT, HotU, GEB, the Presence, etc?
2. That Mandrakk is above the GEB/Presence?

confused

Don't be confused, it's simple really.

Concerning DC -
Mxy is beyond question. He destroyed and remade the entire DC OMNIVERSE. So there goes the Presence and GEB.

The Primal Monitor was so above DC's 52 universes that it seemed like an amoeba when he discovered it. Mandrakk if I'm not mistaken was his probe. So there goes that.

Concerning Marvel
Merlyn said that if MJJ wasn't stopped he posed a threat to the omniverse and would be the "new God playing dice with reality". A weaker alternate universe version of him took UNIVERSAL NULLIFICATION to destroy and it was said this trick wouldn't work on the 616 version. So yeah.

HOM Wanda remade the ENTIRE MARVERL OMNIVERSE with her Chaos Wave. Not even the HotU in Thanos' hands accomplished that (there were realities outside the scope of what he absorbed, Death's dimension was just one of them).

Cogito
Originally posted by zopzop
Mxy is beyond question. He destroyed and remade the entire DC OMNIVERSE. So there goes the Presence and GEB.

Sigh...ok. WF Mxy had one feat that was, bar none, the greatest display of power in comics. If that's all you want to look at, then fine, go ahead. I, for one, won't accept him above the likes of the Presence.

Originally posted by zopzop
The Primal Monitor was so above DC's 52 universes that it seemed like an amoeba when he discovered it. Mandrakk if I'm not mistaken was his probe. So there goes that.
The Primal Monitor is (maybe, 100% unproven) greater than the Presence, and because of that Mandrakk is too? That's pushing things hard.


Originally posted by zopzop
Concerning Marvel
Merlyn said that if MJJ wasn't stopped he posed a threat to the omniverse and would be the "new God playing dice with reality". A weaker alternate universe version of him took UNIVERSAL NULLIFICATION to destroy and it was said this trick wouldn't work on the 616 version. So yeah.

HOM Wanda remade the ENTIRE MARVERL OMNIVERSE with her Chaos Wave. Not even the HotU in Thanos' hands accomplished that (there were realities outside the scope of what he absorbed, Death's dimension was just one of them).

First, statements, especially those about potential, don't amount to much. Second, the HotU is most powerful than MJJ and Wanda and that's that.

Prep-Man
Mxy is not above Presence or GEB.

guy222
Originally posted by guy222
wish dc had brought back wally

love the carnivore storyline

anyhoo, lt ftw

a little boy with glasses and a baseball bat, wally claims to be an incarnation of God. nobody has proved him wrong yet. the omnipotent wally encountered supergirl(linda) several times in her "Earth Angel" days, giving her advice and support. he bears a strange resemblance to the carnivore, the voluntarily fallen angel who is supposed to be his opposite number

cdtm
Superman, easily.

T-vo.

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Dr. Doom.

Smart guy. thumb up

Space M ummy
Originally posted by Stoic
But what I don't get, is that how any of those guys are above an Infinity Gauntlet user, and if that's not enough, what about all of those other powerful artifacts?

Wasn't Krona more powerful than all of those artifacts combined, or is my perceptions of JLA/Avengers wrong?

The LT was demonstrated to be above the Infinity Gauntlet, on panel. This is why Warlock gave up the gauntlet in Warlock #1. A confrontation between the two would have resulted in warlock losing, and all reality destroyed in the process.

Pre-Retcon beyonder is the most powerful entity ever seen in comics. Quadrillions of times more powerful/vast that the omniverse combined.
Even at the end of secret wars, we find that he was holding back- there's no way to gauge how strong he actually was. Pre Retcon MM is lower tier but at that high of a level it doesn't even matter.

Nietzschean
Originally posted by Space M ummy
The LT was demonstrated to be above the Infinity Gauntlet, on panel. This is why Warlock gave up the gauntlet in Warlock #1. A confrontation between the two would have resulted in warlock losing, and all reality destroyed in the process.

Pre-Retcon beyonder is the most powerful entity ever seen in comics. Quadrillions of times more powerful/vast that the omniverse combined.
Even at the end of secret wars, we find that he was holding back- there's no way to gauge how strong he actually was. Pre Retcon MM is lower tier but at that high of a level it doesn't even matter.

LT didnt demonstrate what u should stated of him being above the Gauntlet.
Adam gave it up willingly do the consequences if they confronted each other.

it doesnt make anyone superior over the other in power but relative equal regardless of who won. erm

Space M ummy
Originally posted by Nietzschean
LT didnt demonstrate what u should stated of him being above the Gauntlet.
Adam gave it up willingly do the consequences if they confronted each other.

it doesnt make anyone superior over the other in power but relative equal regardless of who won. erm

he did, actually. Reversed the damage adam did (blowing away the abstracts present) just by saying so, and during the "hearing" stated that he would win in a confrontation between the two (though it would wreck all reality in the process), which adam "should be aware of, due to his mastery of time." Adam conceded this point.

that wasn't speculation, that was a demonstration of power and perception of alternate timelines between the two. Adam and the LT were NOT equals there.

Nihilist
Originally posted by Space M ummy
he did, actually. Reversed the damage adam did (blowing away the abstracts present) just by saying so, and during the "hearing" stated that he would win in a confrontation between the two (though it would wreck all reality in the process), which adam "should be aware of, due to his mastery of time." Adam conceded this point.

that wasn't speculation, that was a demonstration of power and perception of alternate timelines between the two. Adam and the LT were NOT equals there. thumb up Thats how i saw it LT didnt want a fight due to the damage that would be caused in a battle where they was only going to be one winner.

Damborgson
Krona was pretty beast. The grandmaster used the combined power of all those to restrain Krona from destroying both Universes.

http://images.wikia.com/marvel_dc/images/6/60/JLA_Avengers_Items_002.png

guys like HOTU Thanos, pre recton beyonder and pre recton MM would still stomp him though.

Space M ummy
Originally posted by Damborgson
Krona was pretty beast. The grandmaster used the combined power of all those to restrain Krona from destroying both Universes.

http://images.wikia.com/marvel_dc/images/6/60/JLA_Avengers_Items_002.png

guys like HOTU Thanos, pre recton beyonder and pre recton MM would still stomp him though.

of course. it's also important to note that the objects aren't all of equal power. it's not like you have 12 copies of the infinity gems (likely the most powerful) there.

Damborgson
Originally posted by Space M ummy
of course. it's also important to note that the objects aren't all of equal power. it's not like you have 12 copies of the infinity gems (likely the most powerful) there. Yeah. Casket of Ancient Winters isn't exactly on level witht he Ultimate Nulifier.

Nietzschean
Originally posted by Space M ummy
he did, actually. Reversed the damage adam did (blowing away the abstracts present) just by saying so, and during the "hearing" stated that he would win in a confrontation between the two (though it would wreck all reality in the process), which adam "should be aware of, due to his mastery of time." Adam conceded this point.

that wasn't speculation, that was a demonstration of power and perception of alternate timelines between the two. Adam and the LT were NOT equals there. LT restored order after adam knocked them all down. he didnt turn off the power of the gauntlet and the following page..

the LT outright says he will pass the ruling and see "IF" he has the power to enforce it. the LT. himself didnt know if he could stop Warlock and even if he could it would be two relatively equal opponents where one might win over the other.

you are acting as if the act of restoring order is the same as the power that caused it. a Nuke vs a construction crew...

Wang Lee
Originally posted by Stoic
Does anyone have any idea because I can't think of one entity capable of taking him down, based on on level that he was operating on... sans the PIS feat that actually stopped him.

TELL MEEEE!!!! big grin

Yo Momma?

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