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Sorry, I'm writing a story and I don't know who else to ask. In my story, a fictional country declares war on NATO and invades the west coast of the U.S, U.K, and Italy. However, I don't know if I want to give this fictional country nuclear capabilities, and the question i am wondering is that, if the country doesn't have any nukes, will NATO still nuke them for the invasion, or will they inact a similar land invasion

I dont see nukes being used unless their small tactical ones for fear of MAD.

What fictional country?

In real life there's not a lot of countries that can challenge NATO in an even slightly conventional war.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
What fictional country?

In real life there's not a lot of countries that can challenge NATO in an even slightly conventional war.

The fictional country in my story, which has roughly the military might of the USSR, but I don't know if I want to give them nukes unless they need them to as a deterrant to wage a conventional war

It's unlikely that any country would use nukes on their own soil but they may well nuke the fictional invader's cities in retaliation.

Perhaps some kind of dilemma in that the invading troops families were wiped out and the desire for revenge against the weariness of the pointless losses of war could play a part in your story...depends on whether you're looking at the story from a presidential/commander perspective or telling the story of an infantryman.

Originally posted by jaden101
It's unlikely that any country would use nukes on their own soil but they may well nuke the fictional invader's cities in retaliation.


Yeah that's what I mean. I want the fictional country to invade the NATO states, but for NATO to wage a conventional campaign and not just nuke the invading country. That's why I am trying to figure out whether I should give the invading country a nuclear stockpile, as a deterrent to keep NATO from bombing them when they invade

That would depend on who wins the fight. If the western countries see no other alternatives than yes, they would use nuclear weapons. It would be an absolute last resort, though. If they can repel the invasion without using nuclear warheads than they prolly wouldn't use them.

just to be a stick in the mud, but even at its height, the ussr would have been painfully unable to invade America.

also, such an invasion (uk and us) would by necessity have to begin with aircraft carriers and naval/air based combat, else the British and American air forces would obliterate any landing force.

in terms of nukes though, Blax has it IMHO.

I am assuming hes fictional country is going to have some sort of advantage otherwise I wonder why he would put them up against such combatants.

no, for sure, I'm just saying, like I said, stick in the mud and all that

Fair enough. I am curious though what this advantage is.

invisibility

Originally posted by Burning thought
Fair enough. I am curious though what this advantage is.

It's the third largest country in the world with a population of 300 million and a GDP pf 2.4 trillion (yes I choose these exact numbers). It is filled with natural resources allowing a self-sufficient economy. It has the 3rd largest military in the world and the 4th largest military expenditures. The country (called Braslavia) is run by a dictator (Think Stalin meets Milosevic) who has an irredentist desire to conquer the other 7 nations on the continent and slaughter the minorities who now posses these countries. One of the countries is a new UN state and, despite warning from NATO, the Braslavians invade, causing NATO to declare war. This is the third country Braslavia has conquered however, and they manage to push back NATO. Now with jingoist rage at foreign interference, they launch invasions of the US, UK, France, and Italy

Does this sound plausible?

I guess the bigger question is what about those facts would allow the nation to cross the ocean and land enough troops in America that they would be able to occupy significant portions of it?

like, your country's GDP is only 1 trillion more than Canada's.

/shrug

you could make it work, but Braslavia is going to need essentially future tech.

EDIT: or somehow make a surprise attack with a high number of aircraft carriers (?)

If you don't mind my asking, what would a military need to launch a surprise invasion on a NATO state. Or rather what would need to be sabotaged?

He could probably choose a number of things aside from brute strength like sneak attacks and such. Some sort of new large scale amphibious craft that can allow this country to drop so many troops. Wouldnt work on the UK though, cant see them not only getting past most of modern Europe then actually being a threat to America afterwards unless this is a future where America have broken their economic spines and are a step back on the "tech" scale.

So I suggest if you have no problem with creating something that does not technically exist then this amphibious idea would probably be your best bit, other than that I can imagine most countries would be able to defend themselves even if you took out some major elements. What about fuel? mass attacks on all oil centers or w/e?

I think you are better off making the fake country fight another fake country then you can make up what you want. If it is a real Country it would be hard. I too wrote about a war between two fake countrys in one of my books and I found it easier. Also I did not use nukes but did the invastion with knifes and guns instead.

I'm probably going to give them plot device tech, but if they are smart enough to develop such tech, should they also have a nuclear stockpile?

I don't plan on them winning any invasion campaigns of course, but at the same time I don't want it to be too easy for NATO to ward them off, and I don't want a nuclear conflict on the table

I guess.

I read a prophecy once that stated, that the Northern King (Germany), would launch a counter attack on the Southern King (Iran) because of terrorist attacks aimed on Southern Europe (Spain and Italy).

It stated that terrorists residing in Morocco, and Persia (Iran) would be the cause of many deaths in those countries, and thus Germany, and a United Europe would strike back, and crush the Southern King (Iran).

The wild thing is that France holds the power in Europe right now, but Germany will be next in line to hold it. What are the chances?

I found this

http://bible.cc/daniel/11-40.htm

Originally posted by Stoic
I found this

http://bible.cc/daniel/11-40.htm Jesus?

Dude, please don't spam my thread. i'm really trying to brainstorm for ideas here and I don't need a bunch of crap polluting it

Originally posted by Lestov16
I'm probably going to give them plot device tech, but if they are smart enough to develop such tech, should they also have a nuclear stockpile?

I don't plan on them winning any invasion campaigns of course, but at the same time I don't want it to be too easy for NATO to ward them off, and I don't want a nuclear conflict on the table If nukes are the only thing you're worried about, just mention something about an anti-missile shield making nukes and inter-continental missiles useless.

It's tech that is currently being worked on today, therefore it won't be much of a stretch to bring it up in the story.

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
If nukes are the only thing you're worried about, just mention something about an anti-missile shield making nukes and inter-continental missiles useless.

It's tech that is currently being worked on today, therefore it won't be much of a stretch to bring it up in the story.

Missile shields already exist, we just don't know how effective they are.

An alternate justification is suspected allies who also have nukes. MAD is pretty good deterrent.

Invent some sort of nuclear reaction nullifier. Would be a good excuse for an energy crisis too.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Missile shields already exist, we just don't know how effective they are.

That's what I just said, you ****ing pterodactyl.

You're a very angry black man tonight, aren't you Blax?

Am I the only one who's noticing his freaking 20 foot wingspan?

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!

ellipsis

I didn't ask for this

NATO would only use nuclear weapons as an absolute last resort against a country without them.

But as many here have said there's no way a country like Braslavia would be able to overwhelm NATO barring some incredibly unfair technological advantage. Maybe give them control of space based weapons?

Originally posted by Lestov16
It's the third largest country in the world with a population of 300 million and a GDP pf 2.4 trillion (yes I choose these exact numbers). It is filled with natural resources allowing a self-sufficient economy. It has the 3rd largest military in the world and the 4th largest military expenditures. The country (called Braslavia) is run by a dictator (Think Stalin meets Milosevic) who has an irredentist desire to conquer the other 7 nations on the continent and slaughter the minorities who now posses these countries. One of the countries is a new UN state and, despite warning from NATO, the Braslavians invade, causing NATO to declare war. This is the third country Braslavia has conquered however, and they manage to push back NATO. Now with jingoist rage at foreign interference, they launch invasions of the US, UK, France, and Italy

Does this sound plausible?

No, that sounds impossible. The GDP of the top ten NATO members alone is 30 trillion. NATO alone spends 1/3rd of your countries GDP in military spending (and your country apparently only has the 4th largest amount of military spending). It's basically like Germany decided to attack the US, UK, France and Italy (which would not go well). Additionally, how does your country even invade these places? It would have to have a terrific navy to start land attacks on any one of these countries.

Originally posted by Lestov16
It's the third largest country in the world with a population of 300 million and a GDP pf 2.4 trillion (yes I choose these exact numbers). It is filled with natural resources allowing a self-sufficient economy. It has the 3rd largest military in the world and the 4th largest military expenditures. The country (called Braslavia) is run by a dictator (Think Stalin meets Milosevic) who has an irredentist desire to conquer the other 7 nations on the continent and slaughter the minorities who now posses these countries. One of the countries is a new UN state and, despite warning from NATO, the Braslavians invade, causing NATO to declare war. This is the third country Braslavia has conquered however, and they manage to push back NATO. Now with jingoist rage at foreign interference, they launch invasions of the US, UK, France, and Italy

Does this sound plausible?


No, it doesn't sound plausible, in the slightest (the military campaign, that is). You need to make it something like "best military in the world with a GDP of 20 trillion a year and 150 million people". Why? It's more than the US makes, less than half the people of the US, and allows for very wealthy citizens. A country with that kind of population and GDP, even for the last 20 years, would make such massive technological advancements that they could easily eclipse other countries in military prowess just through technology, alone. (you have to be careful, though: a country even a decade or two ahead of the current world could be dramatic due to the impending doom of AI or other smart technologies. For instance, in 20 years, we should have complete UAVs: able to carry out an entire mission with only directives from a human commander (it will gather it's own intel and decide a proper course of action based on a set of parameters). We have the technology and knowledge to do so now, but we simply don't due to the amount of labor it would take to produce such a product. The problem is money. If we could fund a 1-2 trillion dollar project that ONLY focused on smart UAVs, we could accomplish that task in about 5 years, no problems. With enough programmers, we could create AI, now....like, true AI. But our "general" processing power and resources are far too limited to produce such technology, currently. These are things you must consider. You may want to shift back the timeline to avoid such problems: shift back the timeline to 1985. You can then give them current US technologies like rail guns and drones. Problem solved and you avoid the issue of having your "feasibility" diminished because technology goes in a different direction than you envisioned for your militaries.)



Also, nuclear weapons are considered bad, mkay. Why? Because they destroy so much at once making it hard NOT to kill civies. It also creates nuclear fallout which is bad for everyone, mkay?



Solution: vacuum bombs. As powerful as low-yield nukes without the messy fallout. The US has them....Russia has them....They COULD eliminate our need for nukes, in the future.



In order to wage war against the 3 top NATO countries, you need to have them almost equal the 3 top NATO countries as far as resources go. Even a country that can match the US in military might would still quickly fall to NATO due to how many other countries there are in NATO that have decent military power (enough to turn the tide against an equally matched US, basically).



Also, don't forget to give your dictators and the people something that they can be right about. You don't want a very cut and dry "bad guy". They need to have credibility. Such as, "The NATO countries pretend to be righteous while spending billions on killing innocent people, each year. We only conquer those that oppose but wish for great personal freedom and sovereignty for each country we bring into our confederacy."

I thank you all for your advisement

And I was planning a naval offensive for the invasion. I need to find out what defense systems the U.S, France, Italy, and France have in place, which I hope wikipedia will help me with

Good enjoy writting it.

The UK are already deep into "intelligent drones", the Taranis. Also maybe the fictional country has access to several astute class subs, that would make a naval invasion easier.

Originally posted by Lestov16
I thank you all for your advisement

And I was planning a naval offensive for the invasion. I need to find out what defense systems the U.S, France, Italy, and France have in place, which I hope wikipedia will help me with
I think Germany would be a much greater threat than Italy tbh. Braslavia would be unwise to focus their attentions on Italy when there's a more advanced military with a greater GDP and a larger population that's left unchecked.

Also, what is China doing in all this? Just out of curiosity. China would be certain to get involved in some capacity if there was a chance of a total shift in the world balance of power.

Oh and one more thing: does Braslavia have any real basis? I mean obviously its fictional but is it supposed to be a supernation created from existing RL countries or is it just something like Kaznia from DC comics?

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I think Germany would be a much greater threat than Italy tbh. Braslavia would be unwise to focus their attentions on Italy when there's a more advanced military with a greater GDP and a larger population that's left unchecked.

Also, what is China doing in all this? Just out of curiosity. China would be certain to get involved in some capacity if there was a chance of a total shift in the world balance of power.

Oh and one more thing: does Braslavia have any real basis? I mean obviously its fictional but is it supposed to be a supernation created from existing RL countries or is it just something like Kaznia from DC comics?

Like Kaznia, which brings me to another problem, because the fictional continent it is located in resides in the North Atlantic (or where the North Atlantic would be)

Originally posted by Lestov16
Sorry, I'm writing a story and I don't know who else to ask. In my story, a fictional country declares war on NATO and invades the west coast of the U.S, U.K, and Italy. However, I don't know if I want to give this fictional country nuclear capabilities, and the question i am wondering is that, if the country doesn't have any nukes, will NATO still nuke them for the invasion, or will they inact a similar land invasion
How the **** is a country going to invade the United States, much less challenge NATO.

Originally posted by Zeal Ex Nihilo
How the **** is a country going to invade the United States, much less challenge NATO.

That's what I'm here to find out

November 8, 2016. All around the nation, youthful white faces peered intently at the television screen. A hush had settled over the nation as the ballots were counted. Then, like a peal of thunder shattering the silence: a triumphant cheer, a collective shout of exuberance with tearful embraces and waving flags. They had done it. They had really done it. President Barack Huissein Obama would preside for a third term.