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Fight on Planet Vegeta

http://images.myfavoritegames.com/gallery-db-z-gt-x/Screenshots/Dragonball_Z/14._Majin_Buu_Saga/230._Super_Saiyan_3/230-45.jpgVShttp://images.profileengine.com/large/432580144/ultimate.gohan

Prolly Gohan, though in that Wrath of the Dragon movie SSJ3 Goku came out on top against Hirudegarn where Gohan and the others couldn't, but that probably doesn't hold too much weight since it was just a movie (and most likely non-canon at that).

Mystic Gohan.


I think it was made clear that Mystic Gohan was the strongest un-fused character.

mmm

I get the impression the main difference is endurance (SSJ3 can only be maintained for so long, Mystic doesn't need any power to keep going), and Mystic doesn't mess with your head and make you as battle-focused as the SSJ modes.

So yea, Mystic Gohan, but in a long fight.

Chou Gohan is the strongest unfused character the DBZ-verse has ever produced and he was manhandling a version of Buu whom Goku was afraid of fighting even with Vegeta's help.

I don't honestly see how this could even be a close fight.

Goku was never afraid of fighting the Buu Gohan fought until he absorbed Gohan. Agree that Gohan wins here though.

Mystic Gohan should be above him. I see it like this: Mystic Gohan>SuperBuu>SSJ3 Goku> Fat Buu> Majin Vegeta

I think SSJ3 was stronger than Super Buu as well.

I'll reiterate the endurance difference. SSJ3 could only be held for a relatively short time, Mystic is indefinite, so even if SSJ3 Goku is stronger, he might or might not be able to win in time, and against Mystic, he definitely can't last long enough.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I think it was made clear that Mystic Gohan was the strongest un-fused character.
This.

This one is a tough one, but i think Goku ssj3 takes this one. Goku has more knowledge when it comes to fighting and did you see the fight that Goku did with kid buu... COME ON!

Goku> Kid buu. There is a part in dbz while Vegata was fighting kid buu and Goku said that he could have won if he did not play around so much.

Mystic Gohan> Kid Buu

Gohan Absorbed Buu> Gotenks abosrbed Buu> Kid Buu> Super Buu

Pretty sure it was implied that even regular Super Buu was stronger than Kid Buu. Just that Kid Buu was more dangerous because of his increasingly destructive behavior without the goodness of the Kais inside him.

Regular Super Buu isn't stronger than Kid Buu. I also believe its a myth that even Gohan Buu ie stronger than Kid Buu when all in all, it isn't true. Goku withstood a thrashing from Gohan Buu and him and Vegeta was beaten to a pulp by him. By the time Goku made it to the Ki planet to face Kid Buu, his powers increased to high levels due to him healing after the major damage he withstood before facing Kid Buu which is the reason he was able to fight on even footing against Kid Buu.

Goku wins this.

I think hes basing it on when goku said that him and vegeta would be killed if they left buus body and fought superbuu. I see where he is coming from but I see kid buu as being>superbuu both from his fight with vegeta and ssj3 goku, and that goku and vegeta were noticing that buus power was increasing while he turned back to kidbuu.

Mystic Gohan wins this. Mystic or "chou" Gohan is the strongest unfused character in DBZ. A better fight would be Goku after the ten years are up (when he fights uub) vs Super Buu. The zenkai power up I believe it is called (the one where they get stronger after being beaten up) became inconsequential later on in the series, especially by the buu saga. Super buu > kid buu. They were worried about kid because he is a crazy mo fo and unpredictable. If I remember right, at one point Goku actually wanted to go get Gohan to fight buu instead of him and vegeta combined.

Originally posted by Damborgson
I think hes basing it on when goku said that him and vegeta would be killed if they left buus body and fought superbuu. I see where he is coming from but I see kid buu as being>superbuu both from his fight with vegeta and ssj3 goku, and that goku and vegeta were noticing that buus power was increasing while he turned back to kidbuu.

Goku also said that Kid Buu is stronger and faster than before.

Originally posted by carver9
Regular Super Buu isn't stronger than Kid Buu. I also believe its a myth that even Gohan Buu ie stronger than Kid Buu when all in all, it isn't true. Goku withstood a thrashing from Gohan Buu and him and Vegeta was beaten to a pulp by him. By the time Goku made it to the Ki planet to face Kid Buu, his powers increased to high levels due to him healing after the major damage he withstood before facing Kid Buu which is the reason he was able to fight on even footing against Kid Buu.

Goku wins this.
False.
Kid Buu is the most dangerous form because of his reckless nature.
But that doesn't necessarily mean it is his strongest form.
It is his base form, meaning it is his 2nd weakest form (Fat Buu was the weakest).

Buuhan is the strongest Buu version, which was easily toyed around by SSJ1 Vegetto (who is widely believed to be the strongest character in the DB saga, sans the non-canon GT).

False again.
SSJ3 Goku loses
Toriyama has said that Mystic Gohan was the strongest unfused character in the DB saga.

BTW I forgot to add that for this fight Goku will not suffer from the stamina issue.

This isn't a contest, Gohan stomps hard here. SSJ3 Goku is trash compared to SSJ3 Gotenks and Mythic Gohan.

Goku actually implies that he is as strong as SSJ3 Gotenks.

Though yeah, Mystic Gohan wins.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Goku actually implies that he is as strong as SSJ3 Gotenks.

Though yeah, Mystic Gohan wins.

Are you referring to where he says he could kill Fat Boo? Fat Boo isn't as strong as Super Boo who got pwned by Gotenks.

When Goku showed up after Gohan fought Boo, Boo clearly calls Goku inferior to everyone else. He's been lapped.

Originally posted by Toshi
Are you referring to where he says he could kill Fat Boo? Fat Boo isn't as strong as Super Boo who got pwned by Gotenks.

When Goku showed up after Gohan fought Boo, Boo clearly calls Goku inferior to everyone else. He's been lapped.

No I'm referring to when Supreme Kai asks Goku if Gotenks is stronger than him, he seems to dismiss the notion while saying he can also go SSJ3, but notes how incredibly impressive it is that they have achieved that at such a young age.

Inferior to everyone else? Don't recall this. That would be a funny thing to say, considering Piccolo was there before.

Originally posted by stargun
Chou Gohan is the strongest unfused character the DBZ-verse has ever produced and he was manhandling a version of Buu whom Goku was afraid of fighting even with Vegeta's help.

I don't honestly see how this could even be a close fight.

Did you not see super saiyan 3 goku fighting both super buu with gotenks absorbed and kid buu. Besides the only reason gohan continued his fight with super buu after he absorbed both super saiyan 3 gotenks and piccolo was because he had no other alternative, but goku did. Don't you think goku knew just how much stronger kid buu was than himself, but that didn't stop him from putting up one hell of a fight. Besides there is more to fighting than speed and strength, goku has often fought opponents stronger than himself and he still comes out on top anyway because he makes up for the power difference with his fighting spirit, inner strength and fighting experience, goku has far more fighting experience than gohan and he is more skilled. Plus gohan always gets weaker due to hardly ever training, whilst goku just keeps getting stronger from constant training and from fighting on the battle field against his greatest enemies, because goku is a pure blooded saiyan and because he has such natural ability goku has so many things making him become stronger all the time, they tried to make a few heirs to goku's role but no one has ever had the essential qualities necessary.

Originally posted by KAIKAGE
Did you not see super saiyan 3 goku fighting both super buu with gotenks absorbed and kid buu. Besides the only reason gohan continued his fight with super buu after he absorbed both super saiyan 3 gotenks and piccolo was because he had no other alternative, but goku did. Don't you think goku knew just how much stronger kid buu was than himself, but that didn't stop him from putting up one hell of a fight. Besides there is more to fighting than speed and strength, goku has often fought opponents stronger than himself and he still comes out on top anyway because he makes up for the power difference with his fighting spirit, inner strength and fighting experience, goku has far more fighting experience than gohan and he is more skilled. Plus gohan always gets weaker due to hardly ever training, whilst goku just keeps getting stronger from constant training and from fighting on the battle field against his greatest enemies, because goku is a pure blooded saiyan and because he has such natural ability goku has so many things making him become stronger all the time, they tried to make a few heirs to goku's role but no one has ever had the essential qualities necessary. kid buu wasnt the strongest buu gohan couldve defeated him and its not like goku was winning against gotenk buu he wouldve lost had the fusion not worn off.

Originally posted by yungz22
kid buu wasnt the strongest buu gohan couldve defeated him and its not like goku was winning against gotenk buu he wouldve lost had the fusion not worn off. Goku wasn't winning against kid buu either but he destroyed him anyway. And why did they not have gohan fight kid buu, they could have if they wished for it, heck goku was suggesting bringing both mystic gohan and super saiyan 3 gotenks to the planet to fight kid buu but vegeta didn't think it would be enough. Plus the old kai didn't think super saiyan 1 or 2 gogeta would be enough to beat kid buu.

Originally posted by KAIKAGE
Goku wasn't winning against kid buu either but he destroyed him anyway. And why did they not have gohan fight kid buu, they could have if they wished for it, heck goku was suggesting bringing both mystic gohan and super saiyan 3 gotenks to the planet to fight kid buu but vegeta didn't think it would be enough. Plus the old kai didn't think super saiyan 1 or 2 gogeta would be enough to beat kid buu.


I think that's false, Goku thought bringing Gohan would be largely enough as I saw it.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Inferior to everyone else? Don't recall this. That would be a funny thing to say, considering Piccolo was there before.

By everyone else I meant Boo said that Goku wasn't "in their league" anymore. The league of Boo, Gotenks and Gohan.

Originally posted by Bentley
I think that's false, Goku thought bringing Gohan would be largely enough as I saw it. Then why did vegeta not agree to bring both gohan and gotenks to fight kid buu, they wouldn't have fallen for the absorption again.

Originally posted by KAIKAGE
Then why did vegeta not agree to bring both gohan and gotenks to fight kid buu, they wouldn't have fallen for the absorption again.

Vegeta wanted the Earthlings to take care of themselves for once, kind of like in the ending of the Dragon saga during GT, so he wanted to use the Genkidama.

I remember debating in a similar topic over at the myfavoritegames.com forums seven years ago. Ah, good times.

I just hope it wasn't the same people participating in this debate.

Originally posted by Bentley
I just hope it wasn't the same people participating in this debate.
I doubt it. However, I'm disappointed in the lack of evidence in this thread. Debating isn't about arguing for the right side, it's about providing evidence, and help people come to rational conclusions based off that evidence.

http://i.imgur.com/R8AP8.png

There you go, Goku admitting that he and Vegeta are too weak to fight Super Buu.

Originally posted by Astner
I doubt it. However, I'm disappointed in the lack of evidence in this thread. Debating isn't about arguing for the right side, it's about providing evidence, and help people come to rational conclusions based off that evidence.

http://i.imgur.com/R8AP8.png

There you go, Goku admitting that he and Vegeta are too weak to fight Super Buu.

I don't think Goku was including his Super Saiyan 3 transformation.

As shown later on, we know that he can go ss3 in his state. Not sure why he wouldnt include it in that scene.

Originally posted by BloodRain
As shown later on, we know that he can go ss3 in his state. Not sure why he wouldnt include it in that scene.

I know he can go Super Saiyan 3 but he had a habit of underating himself to make others happy (Vegeta in that instance). He knew how Vegeta felt about his transformation. To think Goku at Super Saiyan 3 couldn't stop that form.of Buu is insane.

Not really, considering his very limited stamina in that form when he became alive again, and even if we were to exclude that as a factor, it's pretty questionable/doubtful that he could beat up regular Super Buu the way Mystic Gohan did.

Toriyama confirmed that even SSJ3 Gotenks was more powerful than SSJ3 Goku (albeit by a supposeldly smaller margin). By that logic alone, in addition to comparing how Gotenks fared against the same form of Buu that Ultimate Gohan completely thrashed without effort (whereas Gotenks only began to gain the upper hand partway through an otherwise even fight), dialogue stated later on really doesn't matter since none of it outright contradicts anything that happened at these times.

Any implication of Kid Buu being the most powerful is translation error, and anything implying Goku being even close to the level of Buu after absorbing anyone minus Piccolo is non-canon filler (even in certain scenes, Goku fell on the losing edge against Buutenks alot faster than Gohan did, who, if anything, was fighting on even terms until Buutenks was playing guilt-trips on him). Even in Wrath of the Dragon, Gohan was caught off guard while Goku only gained an upper hand when he discovered and exploited Hildegarn's weakness (he made himself vulnerable when angered).

Goku's barely even in the top five of the good guys by the Buu-saga's closure, all things considered.

Originally posted by BloodRawEngine
Toriyama confirmed that even SSJ3 Gotenks was more powerful than SSJ3 Goku (albeit by a supposeldly smaller margin). By that logic alone, in addition to comparing how Gotenks fared against the same form of Buu that Ultimate Gohan completely thrashed without effort (whereas Gotenks only began to gain the upper hand partway through an otherwise even fight), dialogue stated later on really doesn't matter since none of it outright contradicts anything that happened at these times.

Any implication of Kid Buu being the most powerful is translation error, and anything implying Goku being even close to the level of Buu after absorbing anyone minus Piccolo is non-canon filler (even in certain scenes, Goku fell on the losing edge against Buutenks alot faster than Gohan did, who, if anything, was fighting on even terms until Buutenks was playing guilt-trips on him). Even in Wrath of the Dragon, Gohan was caught off guard while Goku only gained an upper hand when he discovered and exploited Hildegarn's weakness (he made himself vulnerable when angered).

Goku's barely even in the top five of the good guys by the Buu-saga's closure, all things considered.

Gohan disappointed me in the movie.

Part of that is Gotenks messed around a *lot*, and while strong is still really young and cocky, while Gohan was much more direct.

Originally posted by BloodRawEngine
Toriyama confirmed that even SSJ3 Gotenks was more powerful than SSJ3 Goku (albeit by a supposeldly smaller margin)

What? Goku himself said that Gotenks would be the stronger opponent before the ROSAT training. Hell there's an argument to be made that SSJ Gotenks post ROSAT is stronger than SSJ3 Goku...

EDIT: Eh scratch that pre-ROSAT SSJ Gotenks can probably take it up with the old man.

Super Vegito> Vegito> Buu(Gohan)> Buu(Gotenks, Piccolo)> Mistic Gohan> Super Buu(Piccolo, Gohan, Trunks)> Super Buu> SS3 Gotenks> SS3 Goku> Fat Buu> Majin Vegeta

RoSaT base Gotenks is as strong as fat Buu.

Goku needs Ssj3 to stall Fat Buu.

Ssj1 50x multiplier, and RoSaT Ssj1 Gotenks rapes the living shit out of Goku.

Then the fact that Gohan totally wrecked Super Buu, who is possibly superior to Ssj3 Gotenks, the difference in power is larger than between base Vegeta and Ssj3 Goku, or between Radditz and 1st form Frieza.

didnt base Gotenks get creamed by Fat Buu?



Goku stated he could have killed Fat Buu if he wanted to but wanted to give the boys a chance to save the day



Super Buu made it clear he was superior to SS3 Gotenks but let the fight drag out so he could absorb him when their fusion was fresh. he felt Gohans growing power and knew he needed to absorb Gotenks to stand a chance