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Neji vs gaara. They beat naruto and sasuke and now they are going at it for a trip to the finals. Who wins??

Gaara. Gentle fist is useless against that sand barrier, and while rotation can temporarily knock the sand away, it's only a matter of time until he's worn down.

Lesse, I guess Neji's best chance is to try and rotate into him (like he did at the end of the fight with Naruto) and blow the sand away, but overall I don't rate his odds at very good.

Neji: Sand Armor is useless against chakra injection at Gaara's chakra points. Neji also has the speed to go up against Gaara's auto-defense because his speed is able to not only keep up with Lee's but it trumps Lee's speed the entire time.

Neji's defense is even more "ultimate" than Gaara's based on-panel commentary from other characters.


This all adds up a bad match-up for Gaara. Gaara would be better if he moved around more, actually. It's just a bad match up. The spikey hair thing Jiraiya does is probably the best counter for what Neji does. Even Suigetsu is a crappy matchup against Gentle Fist styles because it doesn't rely on brute force but only striking chakra points. Pretty much everyone is a bad matchup for Neji besides those that can keep Neji from touching them like Gaara or Jiraiya. I just see Neji's speed and ultimate defense being the two things needed to overcome Gaara.


Would someone ultra fast like Guy or A be the ultimate ban of Neji? I would think so. Someone fast enough to keep Neji's grubby little hands/fingers off of them but quick enough to get decisive strikes against him.

Gaara. Pretty handily.

Lee's faster, it's just that Neji can keep up and only needs to do shallow hits. Lee's a 4, Neji's a 3. Nor does Neji have the gates, which is when Lee was really able to do damage.

Lee's trying to use just-speed and strength to counteract a host of Neji's advantages, but speed is a poor match for rotation, and Gentle Fist grants an inherent HtH advantage, so Neji wins.


But those advantages help less against the more relentless sand attack, and don't help get through sand as well as the gates do.

Not to mention the Ax crazy demon monster inside of Gaara at the moment.

Wonder if Gaara would try something similar to what he did with Kimimaro? Burying him alive and junk.

Originally posted by Q99
Lee's faster, it's just that Neji can keep up and only needs to do shallow hits. Lee's a 4, Neji's a 3. Nor does Neji have the gates, which is when Lee was really able to do damage.

Lee's trying to use just-speed and strength to counteract a host of Neji's advantages, but speed is a poor match for rotation, and Gentle Fist grants an inherent HtH advantage, so Neji wins.


But those advantages help less against the more relentless sand attack, and don't help get through sand as well as the gates do.

Lee is faster but Neji is a movement genius. Keep in mind that Neji only has to inject chakra: he doesn't actually have to land a solid blow like Lee.

And Lee never got taken down by Neji with the rotation: it was simple taijutsu.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Not to mention the Ax crazy demon monster inside of Gaara at the moment.

Wonder if Gaara would try something similar to what he did with Kimimaro? Burying him alive and junk. I don't think hed try buying him perspnally. Gaara back during the exams didn't seem to use as much a variation of abilities as he did during his fight with kimimaro.

i see neji replicating all of lee's sand dodging feats (prior to taking off his weights and up) as lee's speed was specifically developed to attempt to overcome neji's. neji can't be attacked from normal blind spots and his defense if caught with something he can't really dodge like when lee slipped on sand already laid out on the ground (before he took his weights off) can be covered by kaiten.

neji's strikes would bust right through the sand shell

Neji's strikes had trouble against sound spider guy's gold armor.



Granted against most people, but the sand armor is an issue in this specific case.

Or if he goes into sand-ball mode, I don't think Neji can break it very well.

Originally posted by Q99
Neji's strikes had trouble against sound spider guy's gold armor.
Granted against most people, but the sand armor is an issue in this specific case.

I disagree since he injected it through Hinata's jacket, clothes, and skin. Those chakra points are several inches deep.

Without evidence, we can probably conclude that he can do his chakra injection from an even further distance away...making the case even better for why you must keep him at a distance. This is Gaara from the Chunin exams.

Originally posted by Q99
Or if he goes into sand-ball mode, I don't think Neji can break it very well.

I don't think he needs to break it. Isn't he a 26-27 from the third databook? He has some level 3 seals, as well. If Gaara bunkers down he's spending his chakra holding the ball. Neji can still see into stuff...and through. It will be hard to attack him and hit him with anything because he has pretty much perfected his tech.


Also, I do not think Gaara would ball up right from the beginning. He seems to be more powerful outside of his ball.


Edit - Wait. Forgot this is Neji from chunin exams, as well. Maybe Neji doesn't have a chance. Neji needs his speed and seals to do well.

I thought it was current Neji versus Chunin exam Gaara.


Originally posted by psycho gundam
neji's strikes would bust right through the sand shell

I see this as well. He can disrupt chakra with his gentle fist. I don't see why the chakra Gaara is using to hold it together, would not be disrupted, as well.

Gaara could bunch himself in a little sand ball and masturbate for a few minutes while Neji hopelessly tries to break through it. Then, when Gaara is done fapping, with a casual and gunk-filled hand he crushes Neji like a bug with Sand Coffin. Flawless victory.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Gaara could bunch himself in a little sand ball and masturbate for a few minutes while Neji hopelessly tries to break through it. Then, when Gaara is done fapping, with a casual and gunk-filled hand he crushes Neji like a bug with Sand Coffin. Flawless victory.

Cause Neji's ultimate defense is totes not considered superior to Gaara's. trololololololool

By Tenten.

Yeah man cause Tenten's opinion of Neji's defense is not biased at all. estahuh

Naruto thinks Gaara has the Ultimate Defense. He has fought Neji.

Originally posted by NemeBro
By Tenten.

Yeah man cause Tenten's opinion of Neji's defense is not biased at all. estahuh

I see no reason to think she was being biased nor is she wrong.


Prove me wrong.


Also, long range attacks birches:

http://www.mangareader.net/93-261-7/naruto/chapter-256.html



I demand we use current versions of both characters. If we don't change it...I will take the pizza with me.

Current Gaara would stomp the ever living shit out of current Neji.

edit- Wow; I forgot TenTen actually did anything in that fight.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I see no reason to think she was being biased nor is she wrong.


Prove me wrong.


Also, long range attacks birches:

http://www.mangareader.net/93-261-7/naruto/chapter-256.html



I demand we use current versions of both characters. If we don't change it...I will take the pizza with me. Other than the fact that Gaara's defense has two layers, is instantaneous and can only be outmatched by ****ers like Lee (Who had speed beyond some jounin), and... Well really what has Neji's defense reflected? I can't think of much.



... Current versions?

Really?

Current Gaara would make Neji his nancy ***** with much less effort than chunin Gaara would make Neji his nancy *****.

So you have nothing other than saying, "Well, I think it's better for no reason other than I think it's better"?

Originally posted by NemeBro

Really?

Current Gaara would make Neji his nancy ***** with much less effort than chunin Gaara would make Neji his nancy *****.

Nah, Neji just does his rotation thing while the sand tsunami comes down.


Then Neji shortens the distance. Gaara will try a coffin: Neji rotates.

Comes closer.

Gaara tries another sand tsunami, Neji movies closer while Gaara tries to make the sand Tsunami. Then he rotates.


Then he's within striking distance of his long distance attack. Then he knocks Gaara on his ass...and Gaara tries grabbing Neji with sand on the feet but Neji could see it coming a mile away with his x-ray vision and he...get this...rotates again.


Then Gaara tries sand bullets and Neji moves out of the way, effortlessly and Gaara tries grabbing his feet again, adding in a sand coffin and Neji...rotates.


And finally, Neji is in striking distance...disables all of Gaara's chakra networks easily, right through his sand armor.


Finishes it off with a killing strike to Gaara's heart (yes, homo).


At any point, did I gimp Gaara? Nope. I gave him more time and credit to do his things than Gaara deserves.

"No u" isn't an argument dadudemon.

I find it admittedly pretty funny that you think Neji's little ballerina dance will block a sand tsunami (Ignoring the fact that, even if he is unharmed by the initial attack, he would be buried).

For ****s sake.

In order to use the heavenly palms spin only works when Neji's stationary; the moment he tries to move it'll stop working.

Gaara's sand can hover nigh on indefinitely. Once Gaara surrounds Neji with the sand Neji's surrounded and he has no way of pushing it away for good. It would be like him trying to use the spin while underwater. As long as he's spinning he can keep the water away sure, but as soon as he stops the ocean will just rush right in.

Neji can never beat current Gaara. He wouldn't even be able to reach Chuunin Exam Gaara, since he can apparently teleport at will.

Yeah...changing this to current versions would put Neji at an even bigger disadvantage. Gaara is able to make Kage look pathetic.

And I'd imagine Gaara's sand armor would work in the way that Kidomaru's gold armor did.

The webs were used to slow the spin, sand could do similar.


Also, simply wearing Neji out by making his Rotation a lot is probably a winning strategy. As long as Gaara keeps his distance and makes Neji do it, the Hyuga will run out of steam.



Those also aren't solid. Thin gold greatly reduced it, remember, and silica is harder than gold.

It's not just thickness that matters. The harder the defense, the more it'll take to get through.




Gaara's jinchuuriki status means he can use chakra like water and still beat plenty of foes. Chunin exam Neji only had a stamina of 2.



Ah, yea, I could definitely see current Neji beating Chunin Gaara. His rotation can probably fling the sand away a lot further, giving him more room to counterattack, and he has more attack power (Ninjutsu rating 2.5 vs 4 means he's outputting a lot more chakra in his strikes, speed's at 4 which is now enough to be a serious issue for Gaara like you note, etc.) and wider range of attacks as well.

gaara didn't have that much sand though, not enough sand to warrant him defending say neji opening up with keiten and then going straight into 8-trigrams: 64 palms while gaara's sand is still "recovering"

Gaara can make sand. 64 palms has been beaten in two ways, both of them options for Gaara here.

during the chuunin exam days he didn't seem to be that resourceful

He was. Using clones, 3rd eye, etc. Sasuke Retrieval arc was not that far away from Chunin exams.

doesn't count

also, kidomaru's armour thing specifically blocks chackra as kidomaru was obviously kishi's anti-neji "coming of age" obstacle.

Neither of those statements are arguments.

how?

1) "gaara can make sand". true, but he was minus the shukaku's evil intent clouding his actions

2) "gaara's sand shell will protect him from gentle fist". not exactly since kidomaru's armour specifically stops chackra passage as well as blunt trauma. gaara's shell isn't known to have the chackra blocking property and it was damaged by a peer of neji's.

iirc kidomaru was oneshotted (the one attack that landed) right? hard to remember

1. Shukaku was still around when he was making sand later on. Chunin Exam Gaara is still shown to be intelligent so it's illogical to assume he wouldn't gather sand to use against a strong opponent.

2. Sand Armor might work in the same way Kidomaru's gold armor worked. It was strong enough to stand up to Lee's punches, which are pretty strong. Kido was oneshotted without armor on.

iirc neji did some sort of chackra thing through the thread in his shoulder that heavily damaged kidomaru.

anyway, kidomaru's armour stops chackra attacks on-panel, the only thing that saved him from getting completely destroyed by neji within like 2 minutes. blocking neji's finger chackra was the x-element i don't think gaara's has unless specifically stated.

Yes. Through the mouth. He then pummels him unarmored.

Kidomaru blocked his attacks with armor. Gaara has armor than also blocks attacks from strong fighters like Lee. Neji's attack requires him to get close to the actual chakra points. Armor makes this hard.

you can't avoid the fact that kidomaru's armour has a special property to it, yes both armours require close combat but that's not what we're discussing atm

iirc neji explained that he releases chackra from his tenketsu and when he strikes his chackra is what does the damage, not his actual blows.

The special property it had was it's gold, that's all. That, and chakra. Armor is harder for stuff to pierce.

And I'll note Gaara's sand has an 'x-element'/special property too- it's full of chakra as well.

I didn't recall it specifying that it blocks chakra. It does though, apparently. Though considering the things Gaara's armor has actually taken to the face, I think it's dense enough to protect his chakra points.

Originally posted by Q99
The special property it had was it's gold, that's all. That, and chakra. Armor is harder for stuff to pierce.

And I'll note Gaara's sand has an 'x-element'/special property too- it's full of chakra as well. chackra that neji's attacks can sever.

yeah no, it wasn't gold, it was gold-like and kidomaru knew he had to use it when facing a hyuuga for the specific benefit to defend against their gentle fist. oro instructed him at some point

let me find the scan

here we go

http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/007.jpg

in the next page kidomaru still makes it clear he needs to stay the hell away from neji even with a trump card in his armour.

http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/008.jpg

that pretty much settles that

Granted. Still, a layer of chakra-filled sand is thicker than that and is still going to provide protection.

That was one of the best fights in the manga. sighs. I miss old Naruto.

It was. But I dunno if I'd say all the old fights were good.

Zabuza was the most awesome guy in the history of Naruto arguably.

Neji still wins. He has ground to spin on before a sand tsunami occurs.

But I forgot this is chunin exam Gaara...so that's out.


So Gaara gets his sand stuff he showed up to his first fight with Sasuke.

If that's the case, Neji wins this even easier than I thought. He rarely has to spin. He can dissipate the chakra in various techniques to get them to fail: that's what he did when he was in the water prison made by Kisame. Arguably, that's a post chunin exam feat...but the principle seems very simple so I see no reason Neji would not be able to do that: he just has to see the chakra and dissipate it by injecting his own. He can do both at the chunin exam.

So I say that even if Gaara holes up in his ball...neji can cause it to crumble with his chakra injection and x-ray vision combo.



Gaara is toast.

Or Gaara just grabs Neji's ankle, immediately stopping him from using his ballerina spin, and proceeds to kill him.

Post-chunin exam Gaara would crush Neji. Partly because he can ****ing fly.

Also because, Gaara, even back during Chuni bossness, could make his own sand from the ground, does the rotation affect the ground below his feet?

Am I the only one who remembers Gaara is packing a giant demon inside him? :l

He doesn't actually need it.

I know. But even if it were to be argued that Neji could beat Gaara, he has no chance at all if Shukaku so much as flexes his chakra.

I'm struggling to remember Neji disrupting something physical yet infused with chakra like Gaara's sand.

When does this happen again?

http://www.mangareader.net/93-198-10/naruto/chapter-193.html

Teh webs are infuzed with catra.

I can't help but notice they are much thinner than the amount of sand Gaara can dish out, and not backed up by Biju-level chakra. estahuh

But thanks for that, I honestly couldn't remember.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Or Gaara just grabs Neji's ankle, immediately stopping him from using his ballerina spin, and proceeds to kill him.


Gaara definitely grabs Neji's foot form under the ground for several reasons.
1. Neji doesn't have the x-ray vision to see that coming

2. Neji doesn't have the reflexes to dodge it.

3. Gaara showed that he could use the under the ground sneak attack before at at the chunin exams.


Oh, wait, none of those are true.

Eat it. estahuh




Originally posted by NemeBro
Post-chunin exam Gaara would crush Neji. Partly because he can ****ing fly.

You're right because:

1. Neji has no way of attacking someone from a distance post-chunin exame.

2. Flying gives Gaara the absolute advantage.



Oh, wait, none of that is true, either.


Eat it. estahuh

Originally posted by NemeBro
Also because, Gaara, even back during Chuni bossness, could make his own sand from the ground, does the rotation affect the ground below his feet?

Since this is a question and Gaara is not smart enough to do that at the exams, no.

http://www.mangareader.net/93-199-7/naruto/chapter-194.html

Let's be clear that it is that metal that can specifically block chakra. Obviously, sand can't. It's not a special chakra blocking material. lol lol olo lol olalsdfjlasdkfj;alskfdj

Neji can close the distance fast enough and work on auto defenses. Frankly, Gaara was kind of an idiot back then and it would cost him some wins. Neji 6/10.

So what I'm being told here is, even though Chunin Exam Gaara is shown to be intelligent, we're going to not allow his later feats but we're going to allow Neji to have his feats from the same arc.

What are those intelligent feats that Gaara pulled over the chunin exams arc? While the character has been depicted as tactically competent later, his younger version didn't strike me as an accomplished strategist at all.

Using the third eye to cheat, using a fast substitution to catch his opponent off guard, using the gourd to cushion his fall, and using the third eye to keep an eye on Sasuke-kun.

Now, if I were to ask for Neji's...."I'd get discovered a couple of techs on his own" and...about it. Databook also puts them both at 2.5 for intelligence. So stuff.

Not that it matters. Neji could be the most intelligent character in the series and Shukaku would still eat him.

None of those feats would work on a chakra detecting opponent though

Except one of them did.

Using a quick substitution to catch an opponent off guard.

^ He didn't have his Byakugan on at that point. PIS vin

Naruto came out looking like a bawss though.

Indeed. And that is the key to beating Neji: Catch him off guard. Or attack like crazy until he dies. Gaara can do both.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Using the third eye to cheat, using a fast substitution to catch his opponent off guard, using the gourd to cushion his fall, and using the third eye to keep an eye on Sasuke-kun.

Now, if I were to ask for Neji's...."I'd get discovered a couple of techs on his own" and...about it. Databook also puts them both at 2.5 for intelligence. So stuff.

Not that it matters. Neji could be the most intelligent character in the series and Shukaku would still eat him. way to downplay neji's sharingan-like feats when he copied techniques that he wasn't even supposed to see.

golden byakugan

Did he copy them? I figured he just discovered them on his own.

Reason I downplay them is they are not particularly useful* here. He can figure out how Gaara's tech works easily but he would already know that. So what other feats does he have that would be useful.

*Note: Just because the feats are not really useful, the jutsu are very useful.

The floating eyeball would easily be see by Nejerz.

So that's out.



Still, Neji Weji wins this, hands (gentle fist hands, to be exact) down.

Make it again?

Not really.

Say what you want to say instead of not quoting people and using vague statements: that's what angsty teens (mostly girls) do on facebook.

Well you said he could seen by Neji. He has no shown genjutsu so I assume you mean for Neji to hit it, thus removing it from play. To which I think Gaara could reuse it anyway.

Gaara throws Sand in Neji's eyes and wins.vin

Originally posted by dadudemon
Gaara definitely grabs Neji's foot form under the ground for several reasons.
1. Neji doesn't have the x-ray vision to see that coming

2. Neji doesn't have the reflexes to dodge it.

3. Gaara showed that he could use the under the ground sneak attack before at at the chunin exams.


Oh, wait, none of those are true.

Eat it. estahuh

If Gaara misses once, he can do it again. Compare this to Neji, who won't be hitting Gaara with a single attack.

And... Seriously? He never showed he could use a below the opponent sneak-attack? Are you ****ing with me right now?

http://www.mangareader.net/93-64-5/naruto/chapter-59.html

http://www.mangareader.net/93-64-6/naruto/chapter-59.html

It was his first attack ever used in the entire series.



If you are under the impression that Neji having a mid-range at best ranged attack that didn't even harm his opponent begins to rival Gaara's potency at long-ranged combat, you are extremely deluded.

Flying does give Gaara a tremendous advantage, he could nuke Neji from hundreds of feet in the air and pile on more sand than Neji could handle.



Right, so we're just going to ignore that a sneaky attack from below was the first ever attack Gaara made in the series then? Good to know.

Gaara could easily just transform into Shukaku and rape-stomp Neji, if you really want to continue arguing this, you know.

Originally posted by NemeBro
If Gaara misses once, he can do it again. Compare this to Neji, who won't be hitting Gaara with a single attack.

Lies. Neji will be dissolving Gaara's sound and striking his chakra pionts over and over while avoiding all attacks from Gaara.

Originally posted by NemeBro
And... Seriously? He never showed he could use a below the opponent sneak-attack? Are you ****ing with me right now?

http://www.mangareader.net/93-64-5/naruto/chapter-59.html

http://www.mangareader.net/93-64-6/naruto/chapter-59.html

It was his first attack ever used in the entire series.

Scream at me all you want: that's not creating sand inside the ground and coming from the ground like you suggested earlier. That's using a low attack with his sand from his gourd.


Nice try...but you fail yet again.



Originally posted by NemeBro
If you are under the impression that Neji having a mid-range at best ranged attack that didn't even harm his opponent begins to rival Gaara's potency at long-ranged combat, you are extremely deluded.

If you were under the impression the Gaara can do anything to Neji before he closes the gap and one shots Gaara, you're deluded.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Flying does give Gaara a tremendous advantage, he could nuke Neji from hundreds of feet in the air and pile on more sand than Neji could handle.

Incorrect: Neji can avoid it and spin until his heart's content. He can slowly close the gap until he destroys Gaara with an attack that seems to work at about 20 meters. Suck it.



Originally posted by NemeBro
Right, so we're just going to ignore that a sneaky attack from below was the first ever attack Gaara made in the series then? Good to know.

Right, so we're just going to change our position to something that's stupid and countered already, anyway?


Read again:

"that's not creating sand inside the ground and coming from the ground like you suggested earlier. That's using a low attack with his sand from his gourd."

"aara definitely grabs Neji's foot form under the ground for several reasons.
1. Neji doesn't have the x-ray vision to see that coming

2. Neji doesn't have the reflexes to dodge it.

3. Gaara showed that he could use the under the ground sneak attack before at at the chunin exams.


Oh, wait, none of those are true."

Hey, you tried.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Gaara could easily just transform into Shukaku and rape-stomp Neji, if you really want to continue arguing this, you know.


Nah. Neji kills Gaara before Gaara gets close to finishing.


Again, nice try, but you just fail too much.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Well you said he could seen by Neji. He has no shown genjutsu so I assume you mean for Neji to hit it, thus removing it from play. To which I think Gaara could reuse it anyway.

Gaara throws Sand in Neji's eyes and wins.vin

I know exactly what your post was referring to. I Just find that vague posting style to be layme.


Neji avoids the sand thrown at his eyes and strikes Gaara at the same time.

Neji's Long Range attack?

...this?

Cause he certainly demonstrated that at the Chunin Exams. The Neji in this thread is Chunin Exam Neji, who has never used this technique before.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Neji's Long Range attack?

...this?

Cause he certainly demonstrated that at the Chunin Exams. The Neji in this thread is Chunin Exam Neji, who has never used this technique before.

We were discussing BOTH post time skip and chunin exam Neji in our discussions.


Go back through our posts and read through them. You'll see.

I see you deciding to do this, which was pretty lulzy.

Chunin Exam Gaara will kill Neji.

Current Gaara will obliterate Current Neji.

Current Neji *might* be able to beat Chunin Exam Gaara but Shukaku makes this seem very improbable.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
I see you deciding to do this, which was pretty lulzy.

Chunin Exam Gaara will kill Neji.

Current Gaara will obliterate Current Neji.

Current Neji *might* be able to beat Chunin Exam Gaara but Shukaku makes this seem very improbable.


Nah.

There's no need.


Current Neji kills current Gaara.


Chunin exam Neji kills chunin Gaara.

Chunin Neji MIGHT get beaten by current Gaara...but that version of Neji still has his defenses and can close the gap. He just may run out of chakra before he closes the gap in time.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Current Neji kills current Gaara.

Oh yes, the jonin is going to kill the Kazekage who has beaten 2 Kage within minutes of each other.

I can't even take this as a serious statement.


Originally posted by dadudemon
Chunin exam Neji kills chunin Gaara.

I guess if you ignore Gaara's strengths and intelligence sure. Don't forget to gimp him either.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Chunin Neji MIGHT get beaten by current Gaara...but that version of Neji still has his defenses and can close the gap. He just may run out of chakra before he closes the gap in time.

....What?

technically neji could hit sasuke in the face and turn his eyes off

Originally posted by psycho gundam
technically neji could hit sasuke in the face and turn his eyes off http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/images/smilies/eusa_think.gif if he was able to land a dead on shot then itd probably work. Also gentle fist chakra being forced into Sasuke's brain would probably give him some grief.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
technically neji could hit sasuke in the face and turn his eyes off

If Current Sasuke and Neji were to fight, Neji would not land a single hit.

Chunin Exam versions would be a much closer fight actually. CS might help Sasuke get the win but I don't think it would.

speaking of teh sauce, what do you guys think kishi is holding back at least his reappearance for, new costume?

only thing i can see sasuke doing right now is testing out his new abilities, he's definitely not taking part in any missions

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Oh yes, the jonin is going to kill the Kazekage who has beaten 2 Kage within minutes of each other.

I can't even take this as a serious statement.

It's just a bad matchup. Some people are better at killing others...specifically due to the abilities they have.




Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
I guess if you ignore Gaara's strengths and intelligence sure. Don't forget to gimp him either.

Only if you gimp and ignore Neji's abilities and strengths can you conclude that Gaara wins. So, the opposite is true of your statement; it is you gimping and ignoring Neji's awesome feats.



Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
....What?

I just simply stated that Chunin Neji MIGHT get beaten by current Gaara. That version of Neji, chunin exam Neji, still has his defenses and can close the gap against the currant form of Gaara. Neji just may run out of chakra before he closes the gap in time to land a strike against Gaara. Gaara still has more chakra than Neji, imo.

Originally posted by dadudemon
It's just a bad matchup. Some people are better at killing others...specifically due to the abilities they have.

Naruto was in a bad match up against Neji and won.

I'm actually very confused how to approach this argument.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Only if you gimp and ignore Neji's abilities and strengths can you conclude that Gaara wins. So, the opposite is true of your statement; it is you gimping and ignoring Neji's awesome feats.

By gimping Gaara, I mean taking away abilities shown after Chunin Exam but not taking away Neji's. There really is no logical reason to do so. Not once have I denied Neji access to any abilities. Though if we were to treat him the same as Gaara, Neji would lose.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Lies. Neji will be dissolving Gaara's sound and striking his chakra pionts over and over while avoiding all attacks from Gaara.

No, he really won't. You're overrating his reaction-time signifigantly. His best reaction feat is supposedly being able to react to Lee. While it proves he can react to a fast single opponent, it doesn't prove he can easily avoid any and all omnidirectional attacks which Gaara can bring to bear.

Beyond that, destroying (Not dissolving, he cut it) some chakra web does not prove he can dissolve and destroy densely packed sand (The auto shield alone is more durable than 5mm of steel) backed up by Biju-level chakra.



http://www.mangareader.net/93-64-7/naruto/chapter-59.html

"The sand in the air and on the ground can be controlled by Gaara's will."

If you're going to act smug, at least make an attempt to be correct while doing so. And it is firmly established in Naruto canon that Gaara can create sand other than that in his gourd.

Oh hey look at this!

http://www.mangareader.net/93-64-10/naruto/chapter-59.html

http://www.mangareader.net/93-64-11/naruto/chapter-59.html

Notice how the sand didn't come from his gourd, but from the ground they were standing on.



I could say the same of you, only I'd actually be correct in doing so.



Keep telling yourself that.



Right because Neji can just keep on spinning while also moving huh? No, if he keeps on spinning, eventually he'll run out of chakra, which will happen long before Gaara does. Not to mention, as Blax showed us, he can use his sand to teleport as well. In fact, here is this gem:

http://www.mangareader.net/93-88-17/naruto/chapter-83.html

Even if Neji can land hits on him, why can't Gaara just replace himself with a sand clone? He managed it during Lee using the Lotus, which is faster than Neji.

Also, how will Neji react to this?

http://www.mangareader.net/93-117-12/naruto/chapter-112.html

http://www.mangareader.net/93-117-13/naruto/chapter-112.html

If Gaara does ball-up, he can still attack, and was able to wound Sasuke, who is faster than Neji.

Oh boy, and there is this too.

http://www.mangareader.net/93-109-10/naruto/chapter-104.html

http://www.mangareader.net/93-109-11/naruto/chapter-104.html

http://www.mangareader.net/93-109-12/naruto/chapter-104.html

http://www.mangareader.net/93-109-13/naruto/chapter-104.html

http://www.mangareader.net/93-109-14/naruto/chapter-104.html

Notice how Naruto, tapping into a little of the Kyuubi's chakra, broke the Kaiten. It required a Chidori to break Gaara's sand dome.



Save that line when you actually counter something.



Nope, disproved this.



1. While he does, to suggest that he can continue to avoid it to his heart's content until he can auto-pawn Gaara is asinine I'm afraid, especially when there is no evidence to suggest he is getting past Gaara's automatic defense.

2. Oh sure, he can dodge it. But he can't do it forever. Especially when it is coming in multiple directions, like it did that first dude, grabbing his hand and leg.

3. Well yes, yes he did.



That I did. I also succeeded.



Not based on the showings in the manga.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Chunin Neji MIGHT get beaten by current Gaara...

Haha, what?

Usrs?

You're not serious are you?

Jesus Christ this is stupid.

neji was right when he pontificated about destiny. lol

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Naruto was in a bad match up against Neji and won.


No he wasn't. Naruto was one that could create PERFECT mass shadow clones making it impossible for Neji to percieve which was the real Naruto. That's the perfect type of matchup for someone like Neji.


Also, Naruto could heal, rapidly, and then burst open his closed chakra points due to his Kyuubi Chakra. The absolute worst matchup for Neji was Naruto, IMO.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
I'm actually very confused how to approach this argument.


No worries: there's no need to counter because countering would make you wrong. You need to be correct so just side with me and then you never have to deal with approaching this, at all.



Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
By gimping Gaara, I mean taking away abilities shown after Chunin Exam but not taking away Neji's. There really is no logical reason to do so. Not once have I denied Neji access to any abilities. Though if we were to treat him the same as Gaara, Neji would lose.

I disagree: if you were to acknowledge Neji's abilities in their proper context, you'd conclude that even a sand Tsunami is not enough to stop Neji.

Originally posted by NemeBro
No, he really won't. You're overrating his reaction-time signifigantly. His best reaction feat is supposedly being able to react to Lee. While it proves he can react to a fast single opponent, it doesn't prove he can easily avoid any and all omnidirectional attacks which Gaara can bring to bear.

Beyond that, destroying (Not dissolving, he cut it) some chakra web does not prove he can dissolve and destroy densely packed sand (The auto shield alone is more durable than 5mm of steel) backed up by Biju-level chakra.


You're underestimating Neji's reaction time and quite severely.

And, yes, Neji can easily react to any all linear attacks that will come from any angle. Gaara isn't anywhere near strong and smart enough to figure out Neji's blind spot. Also, Neji was assumed to win the Chunin exams: the number 1 candidate for winning. This was stated even after the exam. Suck it.



Originally posted by NemeBro
http://www.mangareader.net/93-64-7/naruto/chapter-59.html

"The sand in the air and on the ground can be controlled by Gaara's will."

If you're going to act smug, at least make an attempt to be correct while doing so. And it is firmly established in Naruto canon that Gaara can create sand other than that in his gourd.

Oh hey look at this!

http://www.mangareader.net/93-64-10/naruto/chapter-59.html

http://www.mangareader.net/93-64-11/naruto/chapter-59.html

Notice how the sand didn't come from his gourd, but from the ground they were standing on.


So, let's get this straight...you think that you've destroyed that bigger point by only pointing out that Gaara can use the sand on the ground already there, right?

You do realize there was a whole lot more shit going on than just coming from the ground.


Let's go with seeing chakra flowing to the sand. Let's go with an omnidirectional field of vision. Let us also go with massive amounts of reaction speed.


Your point still fails horribly, no matter how much you rage about it. It does nothing to stop Neji.



Originally posted by NemeBro
I could say the same of you, only I'd actually be correct in doing so.

I know you are but what am I?



Originally posted by NemeBro
Keep telling yourself that.

I know you are but what am I?



Originally posted by NemeBro
Right because Neji can just keep on spinning while also moving huh?

YES! You do know he's spinning with his feat, right?

Additionally, my correct response to your statement is this:

Right because Gaara can create sand tsunami after sand tsunami at the chunin exams huh?

Originally posted by NemeBro
No, if he keeps on spinning, eventually he'll run out of chakra, which will happen long before Gaara does.

No, if he keeps on doing silly sand attacks he will eventually run out of chakra before Neji even breaks a sweat.


Originally posted by NemeBro
Not to mention, as Blax showed us, he can use his sand to teleport as well. In fact, here is this gem:

http://www.mangareader.net/93-88-17/naruto/chapter-83.html

Even if Neji can land hits on him, why can't Gaara just replace himself with a sand clone? He managed it during Lee using the Lotus, which is faster than Neji.


Right, so a person with omnidirectional x-ray vision will not be able to see Gaara try to use a sand-like substitution jutsu? Right? RIGHT?

Oh, you didn't think that argument through. Oh well. You tried. That's what counts.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Also, how will Neji react to this?

http://www.mangareader.net/93-117-12/naruto/chapter-112.html

http://www.mangareader.net/93-117-13/naruto/chapter-112.html

If Gaara does ball-up, he can still attack, and was able to wound Sasuke, who is faster than Neji.

Oh, you mean the balled up defense that I have already countered in this thread multiple times?

You mean the balled up defense that takes Gaara several pages to create?

You mean that?

Nice try, but we already know Neji can dissipate the chakra in the sand and get to Gaara WHILE dodging any an all attacks Gaara has shown to be throwing at Neji. Keep in mind that Gaara will not use very many directions of attacks at this point in the story. He's fairly linear. Neji can laugh off the attacks as he dodges over and over. In fact, Neji barely has to do anything. mwhahahahahahaahahahaha



Originally posted by NemeBro
Oh boy, and there is this too.

http://www.mangareader.net/93-109-10/naruto/chapter-104.html

http://www.mangareader.net/93-109-11/naruto/chapter-104.html

http://www.mangareader.net/93-109-12/naruto/chapter-104.html

http://www.mangareader.net/93-109-13/naruto/chapter-104.html

http://www.mangareader.net/93-109-14/naruto/chapter-104.html

Notice how Naruto, tapping into a little of the Kyuubi's chakra, broke the Kaiten. It required a Chidori to break Gaara's sand dome.


You mean the version of Naruto in the Kyuubi cloak mode that is absurdly stronger than most characters at this point? You mean the same Neji that barely got any rotation in before Naruto closes the gap?

You could at least be more honest in your arguments.

Don't forget about the instructor shitting himself over the chakra Naruto released. Hmm..imagine that...Naruto releases a shit ton of chakra to counter the ultimate chakra created barrier.

In perspective, there's very few shinobi alive that could counter Naruto when he's in that ultra-strong and fast biju cloak form. He stopped a giant ass snake dead in it's tracks. Not to mention that neji appears to JUST be entering into his defense mode.


Gaara doesn't have that speed nor power.

Don't forget about Ten Ten's analysis even AFTER having seen Gaara fight:

http://www.mangareader.net/93-109-12/naruto/chapter-104.html

mwhahahahahahaahahahahahaaaaa


Pwned, yet again.


I noticed your scans stopped right before page 15. Care to explain why you omitted the page that shits all over this entire thread? Hmmm? You think that's are you're breathing?





Originally posted by NemeBro
Save that line when you actually counter something.

You mean like every single time I have raped you in this thread? Good idea: I'll keep doing it.



Originally posted by NemeBro
Nope, disproved this.



1. While he does, to suggest that he can continue to avoid it to his heart's content until he can auto-pawn Gaara is asinine I'm afraid, especially when there is no evidence to suggest he is getting past Gaara's automatic defense.

2. Oh sure, he can dodge it. But he can't do it forever. Especially when it is coming in multiple directions, like it did that first dude, grabbing his hand and leg.

3. Well yes, yes he did.

Only 3 was disproved. The first 2 counters you have are just your posturing and gimping Neji to net a win.

1. There's no evidence to show that Gaara's automatic defense does shit for him when Neji can dissipate the chakra infused into it. It falls to the ground, limp sand...and Gaara gets a palm to the chest and dies. Keep in mind that guy easily brushed aside Gaara's sand withOUT chakra injection to null it. Throw in some chakra injection and it becomes all the more easy to brush aside. It was a nice try on your part, though. You could do better.

2. Oh sure, Gaara can use sand attacks while remaining stationary, for ever. It won't drain his chakra at all when Neji is only using his eyes and jumping about at a moderate pace. Keep in mind that Neji had to deal with Lee on a daily basis and did it without Lee landing a single blow. Suck it.

3. And you still think this is somehow a good argument when Neji can see it coming? Lame. This is not even a good try. It's slow and Neji will see it coming before he can react with his uber reaction time.



Originally posted by NemeBro
That I did. I also succeeded.

Succeeded in failing and showing why your are biased and Gaara loses.



Originally posted by NemeBro
Not based on the showings in the manga.


Only to a person blinded with boners for Gaara. Reality: Neji hands Gaara's ass to him.



Originally posted by NemeBro
Haha, what?

Usrs?

You're not serious are you?

Jesus Christ this is stupid.

I think the only problem there is Neji's limited field of vision. Neji can STILL react to really fast objects thrown at him when they enter his field of vision. Gaara can try is sand bullets but Neji should be able to spin in time to destroy them...you know...like Neji did in the forest. It was only when that ultra fast arrow, that could fly right through trees and fell them, that Neji's reactions were pressed for time...yet he still deflected him. That version of Neji is improved, for sure, but there should be little difference other than his chakra stores.

Gaara will have a hard time killing even Chunin Neji. You need Genjutsu against him. Genjutsu or handseals with a shadow clone.

And, you may want to keep up that praying to Jesus: you're gonna need him with how much I'm killing you in this thread.

Originally posted by dadudemon
You're underestimating Neji's reaction time and quite severely.

I'm afraid not, don't be so butthurt.



Prove this.



Irrelevant and unsupported.



Irrelevant and no one but the people from the Sand knew Gaara's true capability.



Considering that was actually my point, yes. What are you talking about? I've responded to everything you said, you made no other vaguely worthwhile point.



So Gaara has omnidirectional attacks? Is that what this vague statement was saying? Good to know.



Not sure what relevancy this holds, that doesn't imply he can stop it. The notion that Neji can dissolve or destroy anything with chakra infused with it ever is unfounded and a No-Limits fallacy.



Never denied he had it, but that doesn't imply that his reaction-time is infallible.



He has good reaction-time, but you are overrating it.



Your point still fails horribly, no matter how much you rage about it. It does nothing to stop Gaara.



Show me him moving while using it.



Do be a dear and point out where I said that.



Afraid not.



That's not really my point. The point is he could manage to do it to a faster opponent than Neji.



And succeeded, obviously.



"No u" is not and never was an argument. Back up your posts with logic and evidence instead of blathering on nigh-incoherently.



If by "several pages" you meant "about 2 that we see on-panel", then yes. Sasuke couldn't stop it in time, Neji certainly can't.



Why yes I do.



Prove this.



Prove this as well.



He certainly can. Are they nearly as powerful as later? No, but he was shown to use such attacks against Lee, even while toying with him.



Prove this.



It is true that dying takes little effort.



Funny how he had to use more chakra to beat Gaara huh?



Couldn't stop it, if an opponent weaker than Gaara can go through and break it, it is not unreasonable to assume it is possible for Gaara.



And you could at least try to back your's up with evidence.



Are we now under the impression that Gaara doesn't have a lot of chakra?



Gaara required more of the Kyuubi's chakra as well as Gamabunta to stop. And... Well no, not really, sure he might be able to beat fodder ninja, but it is a good thing that Gaara isn't.



Oh wow and actually valid point, how about that? I admit to forgetting about this happening, though one could argue he used more chakra then due to the Kyuubi releasing naturally, and of course exagerrating his foxy features.



Because Gaara's sand is suddenly slow huh?



Gaara's sand is quite fast actually. Fast enough to automatically kill Neji immediately? Probably not. But the notion that he will automatically dodge and avoid every attack that Gaara makes is asinine.



Tenten wasn't on that page.

I assume you meant this?

http://www.mangareader.net/93-106-8/naruto/chapter-101.html

"He can release chakra from the entire body, and knock away physical attacks just with that. You could say it has power that surpasses Gaara's."

Not only is Tenten a fallible, biased party, but she's also referring specifically to the repulsing effect. Not its ability to keep Neji from being injured. And once more, can it block attacks from below?



Care to explain what about it shits over this entire thread?

Was it the part where Tenten assumed that it injured Naruto more than Neji for being the attacker? Which was not only proven wrong, but is irrelevant regardless since Gaara is a long-range fighter.

Or was it Tenten saying that no Genin can defeat Neji? You know... That statement that was proven wrong a page later. If you're using a fallible, biased character's statement as evidence, stop.



Your constant insulting me and condescending to me only hurts your credibility, rather than enhances it. You know that, right? It's the main reason why no one (And I do mean no one) likes to debate with you, has anyone actually told you this? Because if not, someone really needs to. Owait I just did. How lovely.

Uhuh. Afraid not.



Once more prove this. He could cut some thin webs with a chakra blade. Woopity doo.



Won't get through the sand armour. And no, going through Hinata's clothes=/=durable chakra infused armour.

If Neji were as powerful as you seem to believe, he'd be kicking the ass of the Raikage.

Oh by the way dadudemon why is it that when Neji was trapped in a bubble of water by a clone (Of a clone...) of Kisame, he didn't just dissipate it with Gentle Fist? I mean, it's just water with chakra infused in it, right? Not really much different than sand infused with chakra, right?



Yes because this couldn't possibly be the result of Guy being incredibly fast and strong, right? And you can of course prove that Guy was using no chakra right? Because you are aware that chakra isn't always visible when being used right?

And no, Guy's feats =/= Neji, Guy is superior to Neji in every way not relating to Neji's bloodline.



What Guy can do is not what Neji can do.



Right because Neji can Kaiten to infinity without ever depleting his chakra reserves, which are much smaller than Gaara's, huh? Neji had to deal with Lee on a daily basis, yes, but Lee used abilities on Gaara he never used on Neji. They failed to beat him, and Lee was nearly crippled.

I'm sorry, but Neji is not beating the main (Genin) antagonist of the arc, no matter how much you may want him to.



Please do prove it is slow. He can react to it, sure, but indefinitely? No. The only way Neji could win this fight is if Gaara toys with him like he did Lee.



Yeah man cause if you didn't notice by me calling Gaara boring not too long ago I am so biased for Gaara.



As the legendary dadudemon would put it: No u.



That doesn't imply Neji can withstand a relentless sand onslaught capable of creating tsunamis or protecting a section of a village from a bomb.



If you want to use Sand Four arc feats Gaara can literally bury Neji hundreds of feet underground before he crushes him.

But of course Neji will keep spinning to victory right!



Chunin Gaara might. Kage Gaara? Hahaha... No.



Are you now under the impression that anyone without those things will lose to Neji? Oh laudy.



I'm sorry, but I've clearly beaten you.

Originally posted by NemeBro
I'm afraid not, don't be so butthurt.

Afraid so. Don't mask your butthurt by saying others have it.



Originally posted by NemeBro
Prove this.

No.

If you are going to ask me about the fundamental mechanics of the byakugan, you can kindly GTFO out of the thread.

The "prove this" trolling will not work, by the way.





Originally posted by NemeBro
Irrelevant and unsupported.

So you respond with "nuh-uhhhh!"?


Supported.

Kidomaru

Intelligence: 4

Gaara: 2.5

Fact: No one figured out Neji's weakness until Kidomaru. Based on feats, it requires at least a 4 to figure out.

Suck it.


It is relevant because of this:

"And, yes, Neji can easily react to any all linear attacks that will come from any angle."

Unless you have an attack from Gaara that is faster than Kidomaru's arrow? (Not likely. It's one of the fastest projectile attacks in all of Naruto.


Originally posted by NemeBro
Irrelevant and no one but the people from the Sand knew Gaara's true capability.

That's an irrelevant point because it takes Gaara ages to fully awaken his beast and they saw all of Gaara's abilities minus the "go to beast mode" sand ball.



Originally posted by NemeBro
Considering that was actually my point, yes. What are you talking about? I've responded to everything you said, you made no other vaguely worthwhile point.

I did. It's your fault for not being able to keep up. Creating something from the ground was only one point of 3. The other two points still stand, even if you ignore Neji's abilities.



Originally posted by NemeBro
So Gaara has omnidirectional attacks? Is that what this vague statement was saying? Good to know.

He can certainly choose to attack Neji from any angle but he's limited to one or two and direct sand streams at that point in his life.

But, you actually missed the point of that statement. "A whole lote more shit going on" refers to the other 2 points which destroys the idea that Gaara slowly reaching from the ground with sand will do anything to Neji for reasons already pointed out.


Originally posted by NemeBro
Not sure what relevancy this holds, that doesn't imply he can stop it. The notion that Neji can dissolve or destroy anything with chakra infused with it ever is unfounded and a No-Limits fallacy.



Originally posted by NemeBro
Never denied he had it, but that doesn't imply that his reaction-time is infallible.

It is unnecessary to prove infinite reaction time from Neji: only enough time to trump anything Gaara has which Neji did in spades.



Originally posted by NemeBro
He has good reaction-time, but you are overrating it.

He has excellent reaction times: among the best of any ninja we have seen without precog or amping. That counts out Sage Mode, Raiton Armor and the sharingan.

You're actually overrating Gaara.



Originally posted by NemeBro
Your point still fails horribly, no matter how much you rage about it. It does nothing to stop Gaara.

I know you are but what am I?



Originally posted by NemeBro
Show me him moving while using it.

Show me where it states Neji has to remain stationary while using it.



Originally posted by NemeBro
Do be a dear and point out where I said that.

Do be a dear and look up the definition of "rhetorical question".


Hint: the answer to that question is this (and it has nothing to do with your pretentious projection of the question upon yourself): Gaara cannot spam sand tsunamis endlessly because he cannot do those at the point of the chunin exams and it requires too much chakra even if you can assume he does it over and over again.

Of course, you'll ask yourself "why does that point even matter to begin with?" Because that is what it would take to overwhelm Neji enough to keep him away.



Originally posted by NemeBro
Afraid not.

Afraid so. Gaara was gassed when fighting against Sasuke BEFORE going into his ball-charge-up-biju-mode.

Guess what Sasuke's speed was at the chunin exam when he fought Gaara?

3-3.5 (it may be 3.5).

Guess what Neji's is? 3-4.

Volume 13 is the cut off for the first databook. Volume 14 is where the second databook starts. So Neji and Sasuke are both between 3-4 with Sasuke being the slower one at the end of databook 2's timeline.

In the context of the chunin exams, Neji is about the same as Sasuke. We know for a fact that Neji had to be that fast to keep up with Lee. Lee, by the way, could never beat Neji.

So you have someone around the speed of Sasuke wearing Gaara down. Sucks being horribly wrong, doesn't it?




Gaara gets gassed and Neji delivers the killing blow before Gaara even has time to go bijuu mode. You'll cry about this, too, right?


Let's bring it back on point.

http://www.mangareader.net/93-86-9/naruto/chapter-81.html

Kankuro says that Neji and Gaara are the "two monsters" of the chunin exam. I guess that takes away the notion that Ten Ten is being biased, right? derpy derpy dooo!

And Neji had yet to reveal his signature moves such as his ultimate defense and 64 palm strikes. Oh boy. Good times. So Kankuro confirms that Neji is about the same as Gaara withOUT seeing Neji's signature moves. teehee.

But wait...Kankuro realizes that Neji is hiding those powers. mwhahahahahah


http://www.mangareader.net/93-86-10/naruto/chapter-81.html


It sucks for you to be on the losing end, post after post, doesn't it? mwhahahahaha


What if Gaara uses sand amor?


http://www.mangareader.net/93-88-9/naruto/chapter-83.html


Oh shiddd! lololololol More wasted stamina and chakra and it will do Gaara no good because Neji can just dissipate the chakra and cause it to crumble OR he could just go straight for the chakra points right through the sand. mwhahahahahaha

And then there's the statement that lee is nothing to Neji.

http://www.mangareader.net/93-89-14/naruto/chapter-84.html




Originally posted by NemeBro
That's not really my point. The point is he could manage to do it to a faster opponent than Neji.

So by avoiding my point, which directly counters yours, you think you've made a good point?

That's not how it works. You can't ignore counters.

Sasuke was only marginally faster than Neji...if at all. Databook says it all. Sasuke only improved to 3.5 by the second databook. That may include his chunin exam fight against Gaara. Neji improved to a solid 4 by the second databook. I will concede that Neji is probably at a 3 when he was at the chunin exams, however.

That still places Neji well within the range of Sasuke's speed. And that should make perfect sense to you: how can Neji keep up with ungated Lee? Simple: he's fast and has uber reactions. This is hardly a new argument for why Neji was so powerful.



Originally posted by NemeBro
And succeeded, obviously.

You mean failed, obviously. You've been buried so deep that you will not be able to recover form this. You've already used your best with your scans, earlier. I countered most of those. Now you have additional statements which make you fail.


Originally posted by NemeBro
"No u" is not and never was an argument. Back up your posts with logic and evidence instead of blathering on nigh-incoherently.

Pretending that my statement is a "no u" comment is never a proper counter. If you're too lazy to read a thread before posting arguments, don't participate in the threads. I am under no obligation to quote my posts to you and that came down from a global mod.



Originally posted by NemeBro
If by "several pages" you meant "about 2 that we see on-panel", then yes. Sasuke couldn't stop it in time, Neji certainly can't.

That fact that you even acknowledge 2 pages (it was about a chapter lol) is more than enough especially since Sasuke started all the way up the wall on the other side of the arena and run down to Gaara: that's not more than enough for a neji who is not stupid enough to go that far.

But, hey, it was a nice try on your part. (Actually, it wasn't. It was more dishonest arguing you attempted to do with scans.)



Originally posted by NemeBro
Why yes I do.

Of course you do. That's why it was countered.



Originally posted by NemeBro
Prove this.

It has been proven already. Go back and read the thread. If you want to pretend that Neji cannot disrupt the chakra in Gaara's sand, be my guest but you can kindly gtfo out of the threads for ignoring basic abilities from the participants.



Originally posted by NemeBro
Prove this as well.

Did, already, and multiple times.

Originally posted by NemeBro
He certainly can.

He cannot. He can cover up his enemy, but he does not use more than 2 main (he may have used 3 at one point) lines of sand for attacking.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Are they nearly as powerful as later? No, but he was shown to use such attacks against Lee, even while toying with him.

Pretending that he was toying with Lee when Gaara was shitting himself about how Lee's movements did not even seem human and how Gaara had to liquidate his gourd into sand to keep from getting destroyed by Lee is hardly honest on your part. "derpy do! Gaara toyed wit lee!"



Originally posted by NemeBro
Prove this.

His fight with Naruto and with Hinata, obviously.

Or did you forget about Neji shrugging off Naruto's surround and attack plan?




Originally posted by NemeBro
It is true that dying takes little effort.

Whew. Glad Gaara will die effortlessly at the hands of Neji, then, right?



Originally posted by NemeBro
Funny how he had to use more chakra to beat Gaara huh?

Funny how both Naruto and Gaara had to use their tailed beasts against each other when both Lee and Sasuke didn't, huh?

Ohhh shittt...you didn't think that argument through very much, huh? This is pretty common of you.



Originally posted by NemeBro
Couldn't stop it, if an opponent weaker than Gaara can go through and break it, it is not unreasonable to assume it is possible for Gaara.

lol

You say "weaker" but actually Naruto proved to be stronger withOUT using his tailed beast as much as Gaara did. On top of that, it is unreasonable to assume that Gaara can break through Neji's shield when it is considered more ultimate than Gaara's sand defense coupled with the fact that Gaara's sand will never make enough traction to do damage to Lee. Naruto's kyuubi most (not KCM) is obviously far stronger than anything any of the Chunin exam participants got to use. There is not greater strength feat than Naruto stopping the giant snake, from all of the exam participants. It's extremely unreasonable to assume that Neji's, who didn't even get full rotation in and didn't even have his shield up before Naruto made contact, shield will fall to Gaara's obviously slower and weaker sand.


Originally posted by NemeBro
And you could at least try to back your's up with evidence.

You mean you could actually stop pretending Neji's feats do not exist?





Originally posted by NemeBro
Are we now under the impression that Gaara doesn't have a lot of chakra?

"Afraid so. Gaara was gassed when fighting against Sasuke BEFORE going into his ball-charge-up-biju-mode."




Originally posted by NemeBro
Gaara required more of the Kyuubi's chakra as well as Gamabunta to stop. And... Well no, not really, sure he might be able to beat fodder ninja, but it is a good thing that Gaara isn't.

Incorrect: very few ninja alive have the feats to back up what Naruto does in his initial kyuubi chakra release. Most do not have the speed or strength to stand up to that form.

It is at the point of 3 tails that the list is very short: threatening even the lives of Kage/Sanin level.



Originally posted by NemeBro
Oh wow and actually valid point, how about that? I admit to forgetting about this happening, though one could argue he used more chakra then due to the Kyuubi releasing naturally, and of course exagerrating his foxy features.

I would say the form Naruto released against Neji had much more chakra involved than he did stopping the snake because Naruto's chakra actually became visible against Neji (but not so against the snake):

Mostly because Naruto is in cloaked mode and he released a shit ton of chakra to get there (much more than his training with Jiraiya because he said "but more"

http://www.mangareader.net/93-108-19/naruto/chapter-103.html

http://www.mangareader.net/93-109-4/naruto/chapter-104.html


Additionally, notice the speed at which Naruto is moving: he's much faster than before seeming to teleport similar to Lee against Gaara. Yet Neji easily keeps track of Naruto and follows his movements.





Originally posted by NemeBro
Because Gaara's sand is suddenly slow huh?

Yeah, it's fairly slow because it can be easily outpaced by ninja's of 3-3.5 speed.

That's stupid slow, actually. It's a weak defense to rely on. Most Genin are not nearly fast enough to make Gaara have to work, though, so it doesn't matter until he fights people like Neji, Lee, or Sasuke.



Originally posted by NemeBro
Gaara's sand is quite fast actually. Fast enough to automatically kill Neji immediately? Probably not. But the notion that he will automatically dodge and avoid every attack that Gaara makes is asinine.

Actually, the notion that Gaara's slow-ass sand is enough to keep up with Neji and everything he has is quite asinine. Gaara doesn't have complexity of control required to overwhelm Neji. Neji, just a short time after the konoha invasion, can almost keep pace with dozens of attacks coming in, simultaneously. Granted, he's better by then...but not by much.



Originally posted by NemeBro
Tenten wasn't on that page.

I assume you meant this?

http://www.mangareader.net/93-106-8/naruto/chapter-101.html

No my comment was one that was obvious. The scan is unrelated to Ten Ten's statement: it is to function why Naruto was able to disperse Neji's tech.



Originally posted by NemeBro
Not only is Tenten a fallible, biased party, but she's also referring specifically to the repulsing effect. Not its ability to keep Neji from being injured. And once more, can it block attacks from below?

In this particular regard, no she's not. Especially if you put it up to Kankuro's statement about Neji being a monster and grouping him into Gaara's category...and THEN shitting himself over the fact that Neji seems to be hiding his real powers.


And, of course it can block attacks from below and easily. Or do you not see the ground getting torn to shreds at every time Neji uses the tech?

Just look at that last scan I showed: the ground is not a crater from his chakra spinning.



Originally posted by NemeBro
Care to explain what about it shits over this entire thread?

Was it the part where Tenten assumed that it injured Naruto more than Neji for being the attacker? Which was not only proven wrong, but is irrelevant regardless since Gaara is a long-range fighter.

Or was it Tenten saying that no Genin can defeat Neji? You know... That statement that was proven wrong a page later. If you're using a fallible, biased character's statement as evidence, stop.

You have gone off on a tangent. Why in the world would you assume all of that when I clearly said the next page?

Ten Ten is not on the next page: the massive release of CHakra from Naruto IS, however, on the next page.



Originally posted by NemeBro
Your constant insulting me and condescending to me only hurts your credibility, rather than enhances it. You know that, right? It's the main reason why no one (And I do mean no one) likes to debate with you, has anyone actually told you this? Because if not, someone really needs to. Owait I just did. How lovely.

I apologize that you are butthurt and whine about being destroyed in a thread where you're clearly a blinded, dishonest, fanboy. And I do not care about people NOT wanting to debate with me: I only care about being right. Poor wittle baby feelings be damned.

Regardless, if you got butthurt over my obviously playful and silly insults, you need to get our more. Did I not include enough stupid smilies? Did I not include enough over-the-top and immature comebacks? Of course I did: you're just wanting to get mad about stuff because you're upset about something real world, most likely. When is the last time you rage posted recently like you did today? I cannot recall anything, of recent.

Calm down, bro. Don't be butthurt over something that I'm obviously having a laugh at.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Uhuh. Afraid not.

NUHH UHHH! You must do better than that.



Originally posted by NemeBro
Once more prove this. He could cut some thin webs with a chakra blade. Woopity doo.

Already done. You ignoring it will do nothing.

Prove that Gaara's sand will stand up to Neji's chakra injection techniques (and by extension, not be dissipated). That's what I thought. By feats, it will work and there's no reason other than fanboyism to assume otherwise. "Just cause I said so, Damnit! RAAWR!"



Originally posted by NemeBro
Won't get through the sand armour. And no, going through Hinata's clothes=/=durable chakra infused armour.

If Neji were as powerful as you seem to believe, he'd be kicking the ass of the Raikage.

Oh by the way dadudemon why is it that when Neji was trapped in a bubble of water by a clone (Of a clone...) of Kisame, he didn't just dissipate it with Gentle Fist? I mean, it's just water with chakra infused in it, right? Not really much different than sand infused with chakra, right?.

Says "several inches" against Spiderboy. So, afraid not, bro. On top of that, the armor easily crumbles to pieces IF Neji so desires to dissipate the chakra infused in the sand armor. And Neji will not be able to get through the Raikage's cloack because it appears to extend out to about the same distance as Neji can penetrate: Gaara's is less than an inch and it is very thin. Sand Armor is no a chakra shield: it is a sand shield. Only special materials that are specifically chakra sheilds (gold metal) are chakra shields. Unless you have evidence that Gaara's armor can protect against chakra injection? Go ahead, post it: I'll concede this point and say that Neji has no way of winning withOUT dissipating Gaara's sand armor.


About the bubble: oh you mean the same water bubble that Neji DID bust out of with his chakra release techs? I guess you forgot about that. Oh well. It was worth a try, though, wasn't it?



Originally posted by NemeBro
Yes because this couldn't possibly be the result of Guy being incredibly fast and strong, right? And you can of course prove that Guy was using no chakra right? Because you are aware that chakra isn't always visible when being used right?

And no, Guy's feats =/= Neji, Guy is superior to Neji in every way not relating to Neji's bloodline.

You obviously missed the point: the point is not about guy using his strength to fling the sand away. It is to show how easily it can be tossed aside with just physical force, alone. Neji can bring weak physical force but strong chakra dissipation to the table: two angles to attack the sand rather than just one.




Originally posted by NemeBro
What Guy can do is not what Neji can do.

"You obviously missed the point: the point is not about guy using his strength to fling the sand away. It is to show how easily it can be tossed aside with just physical force, alone. Neji can bring weak physical force but strong chakra dissipation to the table: two angles to attack the sand rather than just one."



Originally posted by NemeBro
Right because Neji can Kaiten to infinity without ever depleting his chakra reserves, which are much smaller than Gaara's, huh?

"Gaara cannot spam sand tsunamis endlessly because he cannot do those at the point of the chunin exams and it requires too much chakra even if you can assume he does it over and over again.

Of course, you'll ask yourself "why does that point even matter to begin with?" Because that is what it would take to overwhelm Neji enough to keep him away. "


Originally posted by NemeBro
Neji had to deal with Lee on a daily basis, yes, but Lee used abilities on Gaara he never used on Neji.

This somehow counters that Lee still broke through, pre-gates?

Oh, wait, it doesn't. And Lee doesn't have the ability to dissipate the chakra infused into Gaara's sand, as well.

Originally posted by NemeBro
They failed to beat him, and Lee was nearly crippled.

If only Lee could have used ninjutsu, huh? Like..I dunno...the ability to diffuse chakra in chakra infused materials AND the ability to shut off chakra flow.

Originally posted by NemeBro
I'm sorry, but Neji is not beating the main (Genin) antagonist of the arc, no matter how much you may want him to.

I'm sorry but they were both the main atagonists and we have on panel evidence of that...and that statement was made by Gaara's brother BEFORE he saw Neji's real abilities. Sorry, bro....but it was a nice try.



Originally posted by NemeBro
Please do prove it is slow. He can react to it, sure, but indefinitely? No. The only way Neji could win this fight is if Gaara toys with him like he did Lee.

Unfortunately, Gaara did not toy with Lee for long. And he did not toy with Sasuke as well...before becoming out of breath and taping into his biju chakra.



Originally posted by NemeBro
Yeah man cause if you didn't notice by me calling Gaara boring not too long ago I am so biased for Gaara.

Uh, yeah. The bias is obviously in favor of Neji and I caught you multiple times now trying to dishonestly manipulate scans in favor for Gaara, against Neji. You're either biased or I butthurt you so bad that you're raging and can't let it go. Oh, wait...it's the latter. My bad. I take back my statement: you're just raging, not bias.



Originally posted by NemeBro
As the legendary dadudemon would put it: No u.

Legendary? cry

hugs



Originally posted by NemeBro
That doesn't imply Neji can withstand a relentless sand onslaught capable of creating tsunamis or protecting a section of a village from a bomb.

I disagree, obviously. Sure, everything around Neji would be destroyed but Neji would be perfectly protected. We can go with PSI, if you'd like: if a Kunai throw by a Chakra enhanced Naruto (he was infused with a shit ton of it...more than he was at any point up to the fight). The PSI created by such a small Kunai at it's sharp tip would be vastly superior to the PSI that could be generated by a wall of sand..and not just by a little: a shit load more PSI would come from the super strong throw from Naruto.

Actually, thinking about it, Gaara would be better off trying to get through Neji's bubble with stabbing attacks as he could create far greater PSI at a sharp point with his sand.



Originally posted by NemeBro
If you want to use Sand Four arc feats Gaara can literally bury Neji hundreds of feet underground before he crushes him.

But of course Neji will keep spinning to victory right!

You're correct: the hundreds of feet is inaccurate, though. It's just a few feet.



Originally posted by NemeBro
Chunin Gaara might. Kage Gaara? Hahaha... No.

I think Neji has a chance if the fight starts at 20 meters or less. Granted, he may run out of chakra before he can close the gap in time...but I still think it is Gaara winning 8 out of 10 times...with Neji netting himself a killing strike about 2 out of 10.



Originally posted by NemeBro
Are you now under the impression that anyone without those things will lose to Neji? Oh laudy.

Yeah, pretty much. Even a taijutsu specialist is not enough for Neji.


You'd need someone like Guy, A, or B to compete with Neji in taijutsu. There's the problem with Neji also being able to start up his impenetrable shield. Would amped A be strong enough to break Neji's defense? Possibly. We know that kyuubi enhanced Naruto is strong enough to stop Neji when he barely got any rotation in...but what about full rotation? I dunno. We do not know the limits beyond tying Neji up with Ultra-thick spider webs (the strength of spiderwebs that size would vastly eclipse any materials (save it be carbon nano-tubes) that modern technology has to offer. Those spider webs slowed him down by PREVENTING the spinning. So at what point do we limit Neji's ultimate defense against physical force alone? Even the new Neji? I dunno...





Originally posted by NemeBro
I'm sorry, but I've clearly beaten you.

I'm sorry, but you're delusional.





Edit - About your rage concerning my obviously playful posting style with you: did you not tell me to STFU when I corrected one of my posts? Surely you realize that I am playing with you in the same way I observe you playing with myself and others: boisterous and obvious exaggeration of position. Keep in mind that I never said you were stupid or were an a**hole. Nothing like that. Only that I had caught you being dishonest in presentation and that I shit all over you arguments (da troof).

Is that so?

Based on this, I don't think it would take him very long at all.

there was a full moon though

Gaara is not a Saiyan.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Is that so?

Based on this, I don't think it would take him very long at all.

1. That's a full moon and at night.

2. Gaara clearly took much longer on any other day and had to ball up to start the transformation during the exams.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Gaara is not a Saiyan. he apparently has to work up a blood thirst when there isn't a full moon

not trying to take anything away from him but that's what it looks like *shrug*

Originally posted by psycho gundam
he apparently has to work up a blood thirst when there isn't a full moon

not trying to take anything away from him but that's what it looks like *shrug*

Yeah, that was mostly my point. Meh.



It seems to take him a while to change into his full-beast mode on non-full moon nights. Additionally, he didn't have to fully transform in order to bust out one long claw like that...

That means we do not have to see a contradiction to the Chunin Fight Gaara versus the Roof top Gaara.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Indeed. And that is the key to beating Neji: Catch him off guard. Or attack like crazy until he dies. Gaara can do both.

Neji won't be lowering his guard against someone like Gaara.
He still dies though. Chuunin Exam Neji wasn't nearly as impressive as Chuunin Exam Gaara or Sasuke Retrieval Neji for that matter.

^ he was uber during the chuunin exams.

neji's only mistake was deactivating his byakugan. he would have seen naruto underground (who apparently has byakugan himself enabling him to see where neji was)

you have to admit there was PIS there

My Naruto fanboyism makes me refuse to believe Naruto uppercutting Neji was PIS.

pained


I just...can't.....admit it....pained
pained
pained

Originally posted by psycho gundam
^ he was uber during the chuunin exams.

neji's only mistake was deactivating his byakugan. he would have seen naruto underground (who apparently has byakugan himself enabling him to see where neji was)

you have to admit there was PIS there Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Except one of them did.

Using a quick substitution to catch an opponent off guard. Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
^ He didn't have his Byakugan on at that point. PIS vin

Naruto came out looking like a bawss though.

kruemelmonsteryn0

And nah, Chuunin exam Neji was not uber.

stop.

neji stopped and told naruto two stories about his clan/past when he really didn't have to (within a story he does unfortunately); he had naruto dead to rights a few times and could have finished him if he wasn't bound by plot

i'll give naruto credit for not dying after getting all of his tenketsu shut off, that was pretty impressive considering it's basically certain death--possibly something to do with being uzumaki...or the title character....

Originally posted by psycho gundam
stop.

Hammer time!

http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/gifs/1236681958_hammer-time.gif

Originally posted by psycho gundam
stop.

neji stopped and told naruto two stories about his clan/past when he really didn't have to (within a story he does unfortunately); he had naruto dead to rights a few times and could have finished him if he wasn't bound by plot

i'll give naruto credit for not dying after getting all of his tenketsu shut off, that was pretty impressive considering it's basically certain death--possibly something to do with being uzumaki...or the title character....

facepalm2 I know it was PIS.

He was still not 'uber'. He'd have gotten his ass handed to him by Kidomaru faster than Hinata got hers from Neji.

neji had pretty high status is really what i meant.

lee owned sasuke just so he could see if he could style on another genius like neji, and he made sasuke look like shit with weights on (his speed with weights off was to hopefully overcome neji's ultimate defense/gentle fist)

he also dismissed team 10 like they were nothing and when he showed up to save team 7 he was displayed as kind of a big deal

as far as the kids went he was pretty up there, only one who made chuunin out of the whole lot of them

edit* he also was strong enough for naruto to resort to nine-tails chackra to defeat him, next time that happened is against curse mark sasuke at VOTE

Originally posted by psycho gundam
neji had pretty high status is really what i meant.

lee owned sasuke just so he could see if he could style on another genius like neji, and he made sasuke look like shit with weights on (his speed with weights off was to hopefully overcome neji's ultimate defense/gentle fist)

he also dismissed team 10 like they were nothing and when he showed up to save team 7 he was displayed as kind of a big deal

as far as the kids went he was pretty up there, only one who made chuunin out of the whole lot of them

edit* he also was strong enough for naruto to resort to nine-tails chackra to defeat him, next time that happened is against curse mark sasuke at VOTE

Status/hype doesn't mean a lot really, but yeah, he was hyped to be strong compared to most of his peers, which he was. Just not as strong as Chuunin Exam Gaara.

Sorry? You mean Jonin? Shikamaru became Chuunin, not Neji.

True, but considering Naruto had quickly gotten his shit pushed in by Neji, it just came out. He barely had any time to react to Naruto's speed in that form.
And you'll note that the same Naruto was no match for Sasuke with three tomoes. 313

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Status/hype doesn't mean a lot really, but yeah, he was hyped to be strong compared to most of his peers, which he was. Just not as strong as Chuunin Exam Gaara.


Well, I don't think that's true. Kankuro recognized Neji as being on par with Gaara. He said they were both "monsters". On top of that, he then speculated that Neji was holding back. I take that to mean that, potentially, Neji was the bigger monster.

Why?

Because at that point in the exam, Neji only showed basic abilities and not his best stuff. Yet Kankuro called him a monster on par with Gaara. Stands to reason that his suspicions, which came after his monster statement, lend to the idea that Neji was the bigger monster (minus full beast mode, of course).

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Sorry? You mean Jonin? Shikamaru became Chuunin, not Neji.

I knew what he meant but I did not need to correct him. uhuh




Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
True, but considering Naruto had quickly gotten his shit pushed in by Neji, it just came out. He barely had any time to react to Naruto's speed in that form.
And you'll note that the same Naruto was no match for Sasuke with three tomoes. 313

Really?

I thought that that Naruto was fairly even with 3 tomoe Sasuke.

Actually reading the series back then, Gaara's feats are kind of relatively shitty.

Eh. Due partly to this, and partly due to not wanting to make a four post response to dadudemon, I'm going to concede on normal Gaara beating Neji, though I think that Gaara by the time of the Sound Four arc and above is better than Neji, and if Gaara goes Shukaku, he is also stronger than Neji.

And I'm sorry for being mean dadudemon, you *****. estahuh

I know right?

Granted, Neji doesn't have good feats until the Retrieval arc either.

Lee is faster than neji but nejis defense and ability to see through Lee is why he appears faster. Neji can blast the Chakra from gaaras sand but sand has a large area and neji would require lots of chakra to close in. If shukakus released gaara definitely wins. Plus if neji closed in and got him in the trigrams gaaras biju chakra would be there though much less than narutos situation.