Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Luke Skywalker at his strongest point vs The Sith Emperor Tenebrae/Vitiate at his strongest point.

The assertion has been made that no single Jedi can stand against the Sith Emperor. How many agree I wonder.

People generally have no grasp of the capabilities of the Sith Emperor. He dominates and destroys several VERY VERY powerful individuals simultaneously.

If there is any being in the history of Star Wars Galaxy that can handle Luke Skywalker in his prime, it IS Lord Vitiate. Because he is unlike any foe Luke has met in combat and has surprises of his own. However, it will be an incredible fight.

And Luke Skywalker may also have a chance to win, if he manages to properly grasp the capabilities of Lord Vitiate - but this is unlikely in a single encounter.

Lord Vitiate is like an organic weapon of mass destruction.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
People generally have no grasp of the capabilities of the Sith Emperor. People in Star Wars, or people in real life?

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
People in Star Wars, or people in real life?
I am talking about current scenario. Many have not read the Revan's novel yet. But people will get to know what Lord Vitiate is capable of. I am not concerned about this because details will eventually leak out.

In Star Wars mythos:

Lord Vitiate is a mystery to most inhabitants of the Republic at least. You cannot expect most things to get recorded. Only opinions in many cases. Not to forget that the Jedi Temple was destroyed during the time of re-emergence of Lord Vitiate.

Even the events of Sith Triumvirate are no less then a mystery in the greater span.

Lord Nyriss pointed out that many who faced the Sith Emperor did not survived to tell their tales. She stated that he is has killed THOUSANDS of individuals by himself.

Skywalker has more impressive and much more extensive combat feats; even Vitiate's ability to dominate minds is unlikely to be effective: Skywalker not only resisted the Colony-enhanced might of UnuThul, but in fact was able to manipulate him through the Force instead.

I'd be interested in an adequate argument in defense of Vitiate, though.

I doubt you'll get one.

Nephthys
I doubt you'll get one.

Ha, that's not the first time I've been told that! excellent

















Wait a sec--
mmm

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
She stated that he is has killed THOUSANDS of individuals by himself. A number I'm sure Luke is no stranger to.

In bed. he

Originally posted by Nephthys
I doubt you'll get one.

For someone who didn't do a good job arguing his point in the other thread, you sure like to type.

I made but two posts. Were you expecting Shakespeare?

No, shakespeare's gay... Oh wait, yes.

Shakespeare's also a superior rapper to Dr. Seuss.

Originally posted by RevanSpoilers
Skywalker has more impressive and much more extensive combat feats; even Vitiate's ability to dominate minds is unlikely to be effective: Skywalker not only resisted the Colony-enhanced might of UnuThul, but in fact was able to manipulate him through the Force instead.

I'd be interested in an adequate argument in defense of Vitiate, though.
Again, this is all SPECULATIVE. Skywalker does not have more impressive feats. He has a long list of feats and some of them are impressive in their own right.

That colony-enhanced might of UnuThul means nothing unless you establish his feats here.

Lord Vitiate demonstrated greatest command in mind-dominating abilities in the whole of Star Wars mythos to date. His mental assault is very dangerous. He just mind-r*p*ed 100 powerful Sith Lords simultaneously. This speaks for itself.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
A number I'm sure Luke is no stranger to.
Depends upon the quality.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I doubt you'll get one.
It is very easy actually.

I'd fogotten about UnuThul. To be honest that Luke was able to resist him does all but prove he has the ability to resist Vitiates telepathy imo. He was titanically strong.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I'd fogotten about UnuThul. To be honest that Luke was able to resist him does all but prove he has the ability to resist Vitiates telepathy imo. He was titanically strong.

How does being able to resist one prove that he can resist the other? Is there a hierarchical comparison between the two?

Originally posted by Nephthys
I'd fogotten about UnuThul. To be honest that Luke was able to resist him does all but prove he has the ability to resist Vitiates telepathy imo. He was titanically strong.
Unless UnThul broke and made many powerful Sith or Jedi simultaneously his mental slave with relative ease, your point means nothing.

Establish the mind dominating feats of UnuThul here.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
How does being able to resist one prove that he can resist the other? Is there a hierarchical comparison between the two?

What do you mean? I merely think that being able to resist someone so titanically powerful and skilled with telepathy indicates that he can do the same against Vitiate.

I mean, there aren't many direct hierarchial comparisons in the mythos but we don't need them to debate versus fights.

Originally posted by Nephthys
What do you mean? I merely think that being able to resist someone so titanically powerful and skilled with telepathy indicates that he can do the same against Vitiate.

I mean, there aren't many direct hierarchial comparisons in the mythos but we don't need them to debate versus fights.
What are UnuThul's accomplishments with his mind dominating abilities?

Originally posted by Nephthys
What do you mean? I merely think that being able to resist someone so titanically powerful and skilled with telepathy indicates that he can do the same against Vitiate.

I mean, there aren't many direct hierarchial comparisons in the mythos but we don't need them to debate versus fights. I mean unless we know the makeup of unuthul, it's not a valid comparison. Granted that it would definitely favor in an argument towards Luke, but it's iffy at best.

Here is some details of the showdown of between Luke and UnuThul:

Luke reached out in the Force and found Raynar reaching back,
descending rapidly from the command deck atop the bridge structure.

Raynar's presence was as murky and heavy as always, and as soon as Luke felt it, it began to press down inside, urging him to turn back.

Luke did not resist. He was going to leave, he wanted to leave . .

. with Raynar. Luke began to exert his own will, pulling Raynar toward him, using Raynar's own power against him by binding their presences together with memories from their past: of how Luke had once helped protect Raynar's family from the Diversity Alliance, and how he had later helped Raynar's father destroy a terrible virus that could have caused a galaxywide plague. They were going to leave together. UnuThul wished Luke to go, Luke wished UnuThul to go with him, and so they would go together.

UnuThul wished it.

The weight inside suddenly diminished as Raynar started to retreat.
Luke tried to stop him, to find some part of his former student that he could hold on to. But UnuThul still had the power of the Colony behind him, and he called on that power to break the bonds of remembrance the Jedi Master had so quickly woven. His murky presence wrenched free, and the heaviness vanished from inside Luke's chest.

The highlighted part makes it clear that Luke has history with UnuThul (his former student) and makes him realize his past in which Luke helped his family a lot. This sounds like Dun Moch and it works because of Luke's history with UnuThul.

He tries similar approach again. In the final engagement between the two, Luke uses his strength in the Force to choke UnuThul and simultaneously make him realize through Dun Moch that the killicks would devour their own worlds and destroy themselves. But UnuThul is not easily convinced and fells unconscious.

UnuThul has been described like this:

The pain of losing an arm might have forced a common Jedi to stop fighting, but Raynar was no common Jedi. He had the Force potential of the Colony to draw on, and he did that now, swinging his remaining hand up to hurl Luke down the corridor as he had done before.

Yes, this is feat. He draws power from that Colony to continue fighting.

However, UnuThul never displays any incredible Force powers against Luke. At best, he performs a Force push which does sends Luke packing but his guard is down at that moment. Later on, UnuThul attempts to deal with Luke on the basis of his skills with the Lightsaber. A foolish move and display of naivety. As pointed out here;

Awed by their own strength, they so often believed strength was the answer to every problem. Luke was older and wiser. While Raynar swung, he pivoted.

Funny thing is that how easy it has become to destroy the MYTH surrounding the Luke Skywalker and the power of his opponents. Luke worshipping at its peak.

This duel has nothing on Sith Emperor, whose experience and command of the Force is incredible. His mental assault is completely different in nature and on a whole new level. His dark side powers are overwhelming and rip through the defences of even extremely powerful Jedi like butter.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Funny thing is that how easy it has become to destroy the MYTH surrounding the Luke Skywalker and the power of his opponents. Luke worshipping at its peak.

Oh yeah... Not impressive at all. It's not like UnuThul wasn't drawing upon the power of countless Kiliks. Oh wait.



Really? I seem to recall Revan holding his won for a while. Sure the Emperor is powerful... But Luke is on a different level.

Originally posted by ares834
Oh yeah... Not impressive at all. It's not like UnuThul wasn't drawing upon the power of countless Kiliks. Oh wait.
His Force attacks were nothing. He performs Force push and that's it.

Originally posted by ares834
Really? I seem to recall Revan holding his won for a while. Sure the Emperor is powerful... But Luke is on a different level.
Not by a significant margin. Revan performed an amazing feat when he send the Emperor packing with it. No other Jedi has done this before.

Luke came close when he once faced Abeloth but he only channelled the Light side of the Force. Luke is damn good. Bot nothing God-like.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
His Force attacks were nothing. He performs Force push and that's it.

A force push bolstered by the power of countless individuals... The only reason it didn't turn Luke into a smear was through Luke's onw power.



Lol... It created a small explosion nothing more. In fact, the explosion was so small that Revan merely staggered and the Emperor who didin't even prepare a defense was blown back but left relatively unharmed....

Lol @ Luke not being God-like. Yeah, he's just a regular old Force user who can resist the supermassive black hole at the centre of the universe and take on someone with 12 times as much raw power as him and win.

Originally posted by ares834
A force push bolstered by the power of countless individuals... The only reason it didn't turn Luke into a smear was through Luke's onw power.
Again, those countless individuals are collectively how much powerful? No quantification.

Luke was caught off-guard in the first case.

In the next case, he was ready and his defences were up.

Originally posted by ares834
Lol... It created a small explosion nothing more. In fact, the explosion was so small that Revan merely staggered and the Emperor who didin't even prepare a defense was blown back but left relatively unharmed....
Revan never channelled it. We don't know what he could do with such power. However, it was not a mere small and simple Force push like energy. It was Force itself in its purest form and both the raw power of the light and dark sides of the Force were behind it. The fact, that it send an incredibly powerful Sith Emperor packing is a big feat.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Lol @ Luke not being God-like. Yeah, he's just a regular old Force user who can resist the supermassive black hole at the centre of the universe and take on someone with 12 times as much raw power as him and win.
Hyperboles. Learn to distinguish between hyperbolic statements and real feats.

I don't know why you're replying to me. I can't even see your posts. Save yourself the trouble.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I don't know why you're replying to me. I can't even see your posts. Save yourself the trouble.
That does not stops me. I will address your all previous responses as well.

Bzzzzzzz bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

I'll convey the ignored one's remarks:
He wishes to apologize for his monumental stupidity and formally concedes his arguments to you, ending on a gentle prayer for forgiveness.

I do not accept. I do not forgive.

No mercy.

Originally posted by RevanSpoilers
I'll convey the ignored one's remarks:
He wishes to apologize for his monumental stupidity and formally concedes his arguments to you, ending on a gentle prayer for forgiveness.
Stick to your own matters.

He will get all the pending responses from me in other threads. That is what I have mean't.

Nephthys
I do not accept. I do not forgive.

No mercy.

He apparently has also vowed to never reproduce, for fear of spreading his... condition.

Originally posted by RevanSpoilers
He apparently has also vowed to never reproduce, for fear of spreading his... condition.
This is personal level attack. Don't resort to this cheap mindset again.

Careful, given all the ammo we have as far as your own attacks.

Originally posted by RevanSpoilers
Careful, given all the ammo we have as far as your own attacks.
I have not resorted to personal level attacks. There is clear distinction. There are limits that I do not cross and neither I would tolerate such thing from another member.

Words like genius, bullshit, numbskull are no where near to the cheap mentality that you displayed above.

Doesn't matter; word your future posts carefully and you can expect the same from us.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I have not resorted to personal level attacks. There is clear distinction. There are limits that I do not cross and neither I would tolerate such thing from another member.

Words like genius, bullshit, numbskull are no where near to the cheap mentality that you displayed above.

Like when you called me 'pathetic' not once, but twice? That seemed a little personal at the time.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Like when you called me 'pathetic' not once, but twice? That seemed a little personal at the time.
Ok. I will refrain from doing so.

Aren't we all supposed to unite against our fuhrer?

anyone notice that the mods have been harder on Z since he came out in-thread? interesting...

These damn racist, supporters of the death penalty bigots.. But no, it's just an overcompensation for incredible insecurity issues.

If you guys want to go all 'la resistance' could you at least make your own damn threads? I don't want mine to be closed down.

i have no resistance? I don't understand what you mean. ?

I only post here cause I don't know about this Tenanbrae person and figured he doesn't actually exist.

It doesn't matter DE, captain insecurity will find a reason to close it down.

I don't even understand anything.

I obviously don't condone taking potshots at a mod in-thread, cause that's just asking for it. I will say this though: We were told not to discuss Dr. Who in-thread, and no one said another word about it, and the thread was closed anyway.

Originally posted by truejedi
I don't even understand anything.

This is the kind of post that people save for future use.

Originally posted by truejedi
anyone notice that the mods have been harder on Z since he came out in-thread? interesting...

Better slap a pink triangle on myself and call the ACLU, amirite?


But in all seriousness, I think it's clear that Luke would be able to defeat this emperor dude. Luke's power in the Dark Nest Crisis trilogy eclipsed the combined Force potential of an entire planet singlehandedly. This is not even the most powerful version of Luke.

Later, he displays considerable aptitude for illusions, proving him proficient in the arena of mental powers. This goes as far as cloaking an entire fleet, and maybe a planet? (It's been a long time since I've read Invincible.)

In terms of sheer Force aptitude, I'm going to need a bit more than ridiculous Force lightning from the Emperor before I'm willing to count Luke Everloving Skywalker out of the race.

Luke 7/10

i'm still not even sure who this emperor dude is.. is this some book series i have completely missed?

Originally posted by truejedi
i'm still not even sure who this emperor dude is.. is this some book series i have completely missed?
(Actually, he has appeared in the book Revan, so you can't pull your usual anti-videogame bias schtick. If you'd take some time off from perpetuating the Master Race you might know that.)

((Much more fun to simply superimpose "Darth Sidious" over all of the arguments for this character and watch Legend argue for Gideon's old flame.))

(((Even with power creep, I think that the game designers will have to make a conscious effort to supplant Luke as the pinnacle of power, though The Imprisoned One looks to come close.)))

The Imprisoned one and Abeloth are gods while the emperor is close. I think Luke has a better chance than Sidious but I'm not sure how resisting the entire colony compares to the Emperor dominating an entire planet and hundreds of sith lords.

To say that there has been virtually nothing offered in evidence of the imprisoned Rakata would be generous; Vitiate's powers are enormously overhyped; and the critical difference between Luke resisting and overpowering the full mental and metaphysical might of the Colony is that, unlike the Sith Lords with Vitiate, we know that UnuThul was actively trying to impose his will on Luke.

Originally posted by RevanSpoilers
To say that there has been virtually nothing offered in evidence of the imprisoned Rakata would be generous; Vitiate's powers are enormously overhyped; and the critical difference between Luke resisting and overpowering the full mental and metaphysical might of the Colony is that, unlike the Sith Lords with Vitiate, we know that UnuThul was actively trying to impose his will on Luke. There's nothing overhyped about the Emperor's powers. I'd say Sidious has been overhyped because he is being declared a victor without any type of argument in his favor or any evidence relating to his supposed superiority.

Sidious' powers are well documented. I don't think any of us need an argument to know why he's a formidible combatant.

DS
There's nothing overhyped about the Emperor's powers.

The three individuals who have led the primary charge to declare Vitiate's supremacy have repeatedly ignored the fact that much of his power stems from an unconfirmed legend and a ritual which involved the participation of hundreds of Sith. There is only one individual besides myself who I know to have openly acknowledged this without rancor, and that would be Lucius.

Originally posted by RevanSpoilers
The three individuals who have led the primary charge to declare Vitiate's supremacy have repeatedly ignored the fact that much of his power stems from an unconfirmed legend and a ritual which involved the participation of hundreds of Sith. There is only one individual besides myself who I know to have openly acknowledged this without rancor, and that would be Lucius.

You keep calling it an unconfirmed legend, but the planet IS dead with the force. There is NO living being on that planet, and the Emperor is indeed immortal so while you may call it unconfirmed, it certainly seems to be legitimate. Again, no argument has been made for Sidious' superiority other than his vast resources.

DS
You keep calling it an unconfirmed legend, but the planet IS dead with the force.

The fact that the planet is dead does not confirm the details of the legend.

Originally posted by RevanSpoilers
The fact that the planet is dead does not confirm the details of the legend. Gives credence to it.

DS
Gives credence to it.

If I tell my nephew that he entered this world courtesy of a special delivery by a magical stork, does the very fact that he exists prove me correct?

I see no reason to assume that this is the case; if it were any other character being under scrutiny, we would not assume this to be true. If we must, then we must in turn take the quote that Sidious knows "almost all the known powers" and so forth to be true.

Originally posted by RevanSpoilers
If I tell my nephew that he entered this world courtesy of a special delivery by a magical stork, does the very fact that he exists prove me correct?

I see no reason to assume that this is the case; if it were any other character being under scrutiny, we would not assume this to be true. If we must, then we must in turn take the quote that Sidious knows "almost all the known powers" and so forth to be true.

But that isn't the quote about Sidious, is it now? If that were the quote, then it would be somewhat valid. That is, arguments could be made to support it. But the quote says that he knows all previous powers and creates others at his leisure, which you cannot give credence to.

And as I said, the fact that the planet is lifeless doesn't confirm all of the details anymore than my nephew's existence proves the idea that a magical stork brought him into being.

Originally posted by RevanSpoilers
And as I said, the fact that the planet is lifeless doesn't confirm all of the details anymore than my nephew's existence proves the idea that a magical stork brought him into being.

I'm not following, You're comparing a legend which is seemingly not only possible but very likely, in a fictional universe, to something in the real universe we know to be fictional. That's not a valid comparison.

What I'm saying is that we apply real world logic to this fictional universe; we can't conclude that the legend and its myriad of details are all true based on the fact that the planet is devastated. Nyriss observed what remained of the planet and still qualified the legend with an admission that she can't confirm its authenticity, i.e. it might not be true.

So why should we assume that it is? She is presented with the same facts that we are {she is, after all, the one who gives them to us} and she still emphatically states she cannot verify it.

in all seriousness though, i love video games, but not MMOs. what game are we talking about, and is it an MMO? AND, i didn't think Revan was out yet?

Tenebrae is the name of the Sith Emperor, who is the leader of the True Sith Empire that Kreia was talking about. He appears in The Old Republic, which is an MMO. You can see details in the thread in the Star Wars EU subforum.

the Old Republic? Is that the name of the game? I honestly thought all along when you guys mentioned that that you were simply talking about, well, the time period of the Old Republic. How does that work, if it is an MMO? It can't have a concrete story line with everyone playing it and constantly changing it can it?

Wookiepedia.

Official Website.

Its very story focused. Each class has its own storyline, companions etc.

yeah, an MMO just doesn't work with my schedule. anywhere just to read the storyline? would wiki be best for that?

Probably. Or ask Beefy. Hes got crazy beta access yo.

You've posted about this game in threads dedicated to this game waaaay too many times for this to be even remotely believable. Stop playing dumb.

i don't understand anything.

ok you guys, i'm sorry. i'm new here, and new to star wars, and i'm just trying to explain my opinions, but if you don't all stop flaming me and calling me names, then i can't help it, and i get my feelings all hurt.

I don't understand what i did to make you all mad, but I'm sorry. so sorry. actually i take it back, you are all mean, so i'm not sorry if you're only being mean.

Originally posted by truejedi
ok you guys, i'm sorry. i'm new here, and new to star wars, and i'm just trying to explain my opinions, but if you don't all stop flaming me and calling me names, then i can't help it, and i get my feelings all hurt.

I don't understand what i did to make you all mad, but I'm sorry. so sorry. actually i take it back, you are all mean, so i'm not sorry if you're only being mean.

Get off of tj's account.

it is possible that the Jedi could beat the empire if Luke snuck onto the death star and stealthed his whole team into Sidious's chambers and killed him. just sayin'.

It shouldn't be that tough. Likely Vitiate will just run onto his lightsaber. smurph

Originally posted by Nephthys
It shouldn't be that tough. Likely Vitiate will just run onto his lightsaber. smurph


Yes, this is a very dangerous possibility. Lord Vitiate seems to have fetish for Lightsabers.

Luke just needs a beautiful and attractive Lightsaber.

...This thread still relevant? Luke is now known to easily tear anyone apart o-o.

Vitiate is not a One, so... I'm definitely siding with Luke here.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Vitiate is not a One, so... I'm definitely siding with Luke here.

Keep in mind, this was posted in 2011. So... Yeah, there's that...
I guess Luke was considered weak as a Jedi back then? O.o

Or the Emperor was way overhyped. Luke grew stronger and the Emperor was shown to be significantly weaker than anticipated when this thread was made.

Well, keep in mind, the Emperor was weakened when taking on the Hero of Tython.

Lukes takes this, clearly.

Originally posted by NTJack0
Lukes takes this, clearly.

Obviously

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Well, keep in mind, the Emperor was weakened when taking on the Hero of Tython.
That's not what I'm talking about. People made it seem as if Vitiate was some sith master who ate planets with shear power when this isn't the case seen in game. Vitiate was way overhyped. And it's not as if Vitiate was on his hands and knees when they fought, as well as given the fact that he was allowed significant time to recover at least partially. He's strong, but he was never as strong as he was hyped up to be.