Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

?

Depends on whether you believe Scathan is greater than the Living Tribunal.

I don't.

Scathan disapproves of that over rated moron and proceeds to wax that @$$! If his brother interferes, he gets his wings clipped and owned too.

Lucifer wins

Scathan

Lucy.

Lucifer as well.

Lucifer wins

Lucifer

good seeing u

scathan doesn't approve

What could Lucy do to Scathan?

His best OFFENSIVE feats are what exactly? Extinguishing a couple thousand souls in Beijing? Stalemating a weakened Michael?

On the other hand, I don't know what exactly Scathan can do to Lucy. The guy has tanked a multi-verse creating blast, as well as almost everything the Basanos threw at him.

My guess is since neither have the offensive capabilities to damage one another, they either stalemate, or Scathan muzzles Lucy and leaves him.

Originally posted by Glorificus
My guess is since neither have the offensive capabilities to damage one another, they either stalemate, or Scathan muzzles Lucy and leaves him.

Scathan can do more than muzzle the over rated pretty boy. People forget that after Scathan owned the Protege with the muzzle, the LT asked Scathan to remove the muzzle and RESTRAIN the Protege as the LT passed judgement. Think about this. Scathan restrained a being that was more powerful than the LT and every other cosmic assembled at that trial. If the LT had asked Scathan to rip the Protege's head off, I believe 100% that he had the power to do it too.

Celestial wins

Scathan.

Protege

http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/9969171_Guardians_Of_The_Galaxy_16_16.jpg

Lucifer.

scathan

Consider this:
Scathans best feat is capturing and holding a person...
Who at the peak of his power never defeated anyone
Or defended himself against anyone.
And the statement that protege was equal to the one above all... Must be hyperbole or maybe an error in judgment... Because being above everything and getting stopped by scatham implies he wasn't.

its canon according to the editor

i had a nice conversation with em

as mr m always said if u have a problem ask marvel

Originally posted by rotiart
Consider this:
Scathans best feat is capturing and holding a person...
Who at the peak of his power never defeated anyone
Or defended himself against anyone.
And the statement that protege was equal to the one above all... Must be hyperbole or maybe an error in judgment... Because being above everything and getting stopped by scatham implies he wasn't.

Pretty much. Being above everyone sometimes gets thrown out a lot.

Just becasue he was above the LT doesn't mean he is automatically equal to the one above all. We don't know how big of a gap there is between the LT and TOAA. For all we know, LT may be a dust particle to TOAA. Getting to LT and and filling that gap and greaching TOAA is beyond anything protege can do and this allowed Scanthan to judge him. Lucifer, in comics challenges God. That's alot more than a mere dust particle can accomplish. Lucifer Wins.

Lucifer.

Scathan wins.

Lucifer wins, Scathan aint doing shit here.

Originally posted by zopzop
Scathan can do more than muzzle the over rated pretty boy. People forget that after Scathan owned the Protege with the muzzle, the LT asked Scathan to remove the muzzle and RESTRAIN the Protege as the LT passed judgement. Think about this. Scathan restrained a being that was more powerful than the LT and every other cosmic assembled at that trial. If the LT had asked Scathan to rip the Protege's head off, I believe 100% that he had the power to do it too. Lucifer would beat LT

no he's not

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Pretty much. Being above everyone sometimes gets thrown out a lot.

especially when dc wins

Scathan has one feat: muzzling Protege. Said feat rendered Protege powerless because he was no longer able to see the other cosmics, subsequently stopping him from duplicating any of their powers.

That same 'tactic' wouldn't really apply to Lucifer, imo- ie. he wouldn't automatically become powerless if Scathan were to muzzle him.

what's lucy best feat galan

Originally posted by guy222
no he's not Yes he would

Originally posted by guy222
what's lucy best feat galan Being the second most powerful being in dc after the presence as stated on panel

Probably tanking a multiversal big bang at ground zero, then proceeding to warp those raw energies into a physical creation, via hiz maximum will powa.

thank u

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
Being the second most powerful being in dc after the presence as stated on panel

who is the presence

where is he

why did morrison **** up dc's hierarchy

personal goal or drugs

i respect ur choice, mine is different no harm in that

Prescence is there god

morrison differs

carnivean usurped the presence's power

Guy I have no idea what you guys talked about but this is what I think.
Protege while he had vast power was unskilled or did not know how to auto defend himself.

Thus Scathan exploite weakenesses inherent to protege...

Cause somehow I just can't see the real "TOAA" being defeated by anyone.

It's not like we have on panel LT unleashing an multiversity ending attack and protege tanking it then getting owned by Scathan.

Now correct me if I'm wrong cause I know I posted it here a Lon time ago...
But it was Scathan the hawk god and lt in a room discussing what to do when lt states they may have need of the eye of agamotto to defeat protege...

And yet Scathan does it alone? Doesn't that sound a little odd? They didn't even need it in the end. :-/

Lucifer still wins Scathan is the overrated one

Originally posted by rotiart
Guy I have no idea what you guys talked about but this is what I think.
Protege while he had vast power was unskilled or did not know how to auto defend himself.

Thus Scathan exploite weakenesses inherent to protege...

Cause somehow I just can't see the real "TOAA" being defeated by anyone.

It's not like we have on panel LT unleashing an multiversity ending attack and protege tanking it then getting owned by Scathan.

Now correct me if I'm wrong cause I know I posted it here a Lon time ago...
But it was Scathan the hawk god and lt in a room discussing what to do when lt states they may have need of the eye of agamotto to defeat protege...

And yet Scathan does it alone? Doesn't that sound a little odd? They didn't even need it in the end. :-/

i got a reply from that editor....he said it was canon

always believed both were needed to stop the protege

i can post the scans soon

Originally posted by Galan007
Scathan has one feat: muzzling Protege. Said feat rendered Protege powerless because he was no longer able to see the other cosmics, subsequently stopping him from duplicating any of their powers.

That same 'tactic' wouldn't really apply to Lucifer, imo- ie. he wouldn't automatically become powerless if Scathan were to muzzle him.

Read the scans again Galan. After Scathan stopped the Protege's rampage and muzzled him, proving he was more powerful than any being assembled at the trial, the LT asked Scathan to remove the muzzle and RESTRAIN the Protege as the LT passed judgement. Scathan later approved of the judgement. The Protege didn't lose any powers he had copied just because he was muzzled, he still had their powers, hence why the LT asked Scathan to restrain him.

Scathan restrained a being that had duplicated the powers of every member of the cosmic trial, the LT included. If the LT asked Scathan to kill the Protege instead, he could have done it. The Handbook entry for the LT makes it crystal clear, Scathan saved the LT's ass.

Proof :
Beyonder, All reality in the hands of that child -
http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/9089/allreality.th.jpg

The powers and principalities confirm the statement -
http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/6536/confirmatin.th.jpg

Creation's new Lord -
http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/6893/truegodr.th.jpg

Scathan saves the court from annihilation -
http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/1913/finalstrike.th.jpg

Scathan is powerful enough to restrain the True God even when he removed the muzzle and the Protege was struggling -
http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/5378/restrain.th.jpg
He also approved of the LT's judgement

The LT was not needed to stop the Protege, at all. If Scathan wasn't there, Protege would be the one true God. Confirmation from the Handbook entry for the LT -
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/41615/1185369-lt_super.jpg

Originally posted by zopzop
Read the scans again Galan. After Scathan stopped the Protege's rampage and muzzled him, proving he was more powerful than any being assembled at the trial, the LT asked Scathan to remove the muzzle and RESTRAIN the Protege as the LT passed judgement. Scathan later approved of the judgement. The Protege didn't lose any powers he had copied just because he was muzzled, he still had their powers, hence why the LT asked Scathan to restrain him.

Scathan restrained a being that had duplicated the powers of every member of the cosmic trial, the LT included. If the LT asked Scathan to kill the Protege instead, he could have done it. The Handbook entry for the LT makes it crystal clear, Scathan saved the LT's ass.

Agreed. Scathan is the more likely winner. I can only see Lucifer possibly stalemating at best.

Wasn't Scathan at that meeting. I seem to remember him there when protege was copying

Originally posted by rotiart
Wasn't Scathan at that meeting. I seem to remember him there when protege was copying

Yup and he couldn't or didn't copy Scathan's powers, even after the muzzle was removed. Scathan ftw.

Lucifer prep ftw. He probably doesn't have to lay a finger on him.

I don't know about that. I seem to remember on panel him copying everyone present on panel which would include Scathan.

Thus protege was the combination of Lt hawkgod and Scathan....
But was defeated by only Scathan

Lucifer talks Scathan into disapproving himself.

Originally posted by zopzop
Read the scans again Galan. Here we see that initially, Scathan was NOT restraining Protege after the muzzle was removed:

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/1152/guardiansofthegalaxy503.th.jpg

If Protege was still at his '> LT' levels after the muzzle was removed (as you say), you'd think he would have tried to defend himself in some way/shape/form (like he had been doing throughout the entire arc) as opposed to, you know, just standing there staring at LT. srsly


Don't care either way though. Protege was weaksauce, imo.

Originally posted by Galan007
Here we see that initially, Scathan was NOT restraining Protege after the muzzle was removed:

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/1152/guardiansofthegalaxy503.th.jpg

If Protege was still at his '> LT' levels after the muzzle was removed (as you say), you'd think he would have tried to defend himself in some way/shape/form (like he had been doing throughout the entire arc) as opposed to, you know, just standing there staring at LT. srsly


Don't care either way though. Protege was weaksauce, imo.

The Protege couldn't do anything with Scathan, the guy that owned him, standing right behind him ready for whatever the Protege was gonna throw at the court. He was the one that stopped the Protege's assault on the council, he was the one that muzzled the Protege (and the Protege with ALL the power he had accumulated, including the LT's own, couldn't break free of the muzzle), and he was the one restraining the Protege (and again the Protege couldn't break free of Scathan despite all the power he had) while the LT passed judgement. Scathan really was all that.

Protege was more powerful than the LT and on his way to becoming the new TOAA until Scathan stepped in. The part about him being more powerful than the LT isn't in dispute since it was confirmed on panel and in the handbook entry for the LT himself.

Anyway I'm thankful neither the Protege or Scathan were heard from again.

scathan is returning

Originally posted by zopzop
The Protege couldn't do anything with Scathan, the guy that owned him, standing right behind him ready for whatever the Protege was gonna throw at the court. He was the one that stopped the Protege's assault on the council, he was the one that muzzled the Protege (and the Protege with ALL the power he had accumulated, including the LT's own, couldn't break free of the muzzle), and he was the one restraining the Protege (and again the Protege couldn't break free of Scathan despite all the power he had) while the LT passed judgement. Scathan really was all that.

Protege was more powerful than the LT and on his way to becoming the new TOAA until Scathan stepped in. The part about him being more powerful than the LT isn't in dispute since it was confirmed on panel and in the handbook entry for the LT himself.

Anyway I'm thankful neither the Protege or Scathan were heard from again. I think you sort of missed my point. Initially, Scathan was not restraining Protege after removing the muzzle. So if Protege was still '> LT' at that point in time (like you said), why didn't he try to defend himself against LT, instead of staring at him like a scared child..?

I too am very glad they are gone. I loathe those characters.

One thing I wanna point out is the fact that Scathan before he is shown, unleashed a blast (orange rings of energy) that rocked everybody present except maybe LT. Then he appears standing with the same rings of energy around him. This happens right before he is shackled.

http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/5941/pro6s.th.jpg http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/2686/pro7p.th.jpg


Making Scathan more impressive is the fact that the super team of Hawkgod, Eternity, and LT opposed Protege and LT stated he may need extra power from Ancient 1's Amulet. Scathan flat out trumped everybody.

http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/4357/pro5y.th.jpg

Now guy says he's comming back so we'll soon see if this showing is pure PIS or not. Anything less than 2nd in command of the MU is unacceptable.

Originally posted by Galan007 I think you sort of missed my point. Initially, Scathan was not restraining Protege after removing the muzzle. So if Protege was still '> LT' at that point in time (like you said), why didn't he try to defend himself against LT, instead of staring at him like a scared child..? I too am very glad they are gone. I loathe those characters.

agreed.

Originally posted by Galan007
I think you sort of missed my point. Initially, Scathan was not restraining Protege after removing the muzzle. So if Protege was still '> LT' at that point in time (like you said), why didn't he try to defend himself against LT, instead of staring at him like a scared child..?

I too am very glad they are gone. I loathe those characters.

So what happened to the power the Protege absorbed? Did the muzzle remove it? Anyway you look at it, Scathan owned the Protege who was above the LT in power. This was further cemented at the very end when the LT was passing judgement on the Protege he had to draw power from the Eye of Agamotto. Why would he need to do that if the Protege wasn't above him in power?

Scathan >>>>>>Protege>>>>>>>>>>>LT.

i love that lt thought he needed the amulet to add to his power.

what a horrific arc that was, though at the time i seem to remember enjoying it. scathan was one of the dumbest, most illogical deux ex machinas i've ever seen. i'm going to go ahead and simply assume protege may have had lt's powers but had no inkling how to use them and therefore scathan was able to take him out with....whatever that ridiculous muzzle was. or maybe that muzzle would work on lt too? reed did shoot him once, after all so maybe it's LT who is being overrated by everyone....

lucifer is cooler, feats are less illogical, more concrete and he has the history of feats that that one-timer doesn't. lucifer ends him.

Originally posted by zopzop
This was further cemented at the very end when the LT was passing judgement on the Protege he had to draw power from the Eye of Agamotto. Why would he need to do that if the Protege wasn't above him in power?
Here's the funny part: beforehand, Protege was more powerful than LT+Eternity+Beyonder+Hawk God. So if Protege was still at the peak of his power when LT judged him at the end, the power LT was leeching from the ancient one's amulet would have needed to be significantly more powerful than Eternity+Beyonder+Hawk God, otherwise it wouldn't have made a difference.

...No way in hell the amulet contains anywhere near that amount of power.

God that story was horrid.

Originally posted by Galan007
Here's the funny part: beforehand, Protege was more powerful than LT+Eternity+Beyonder+Hawk God. So if Protege was still at the peak of his power when LT judged him at the end, the power LT was leeching from the ancient one's amulet would have needed to be significantly more powerful than Eternity+Beyonder+Hawk God, otherwise it wouldn't have made a difference.

...No way in hell the amulet contains anywhere near that amount of power.

God that story was horrid.

Hehe, feel my pain. Now you know how I felt when Bendis fxxked one of my favorite characters over in that recent New Avengers Annual

I love those Celestials and LT

http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/9979920_Guardians_Of_The_Galaxy_50-20.jpg http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/9979921_Guardians_Of_The_Galaxy_50-21.jpg http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/9979922_Guardians_Of_The_Galaxy_50-25.jpg http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/9979923_Guardians_Of_The_Galaxy_50-28.jpg http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/9979924_Guardians_Of_The_Galaxy_50-30.jpg http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/9979925_Guardians_Of_The_Galaxy_50-31.jpg http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/9979926_Guardians_Of_The_Galaxy_50-32.jpg

Originally posted by Galan007 Here's the funny part: beforehand, Protege was more powerful than LT+Eternity+Beyonder+Hawk God. So if Protege was still at the peak of his power when LT judged him at the end, the power LT was leeching from the ancient one's amulet would have needed to be significantly more powerful than Eternity+Beyonder+Hawk God, otherwise it wouldn't have made a difference. ...No way in hell the amulet contains anywhere near that amount of power. God that story was horrid.

pretty much all cosmic stories suck, imo. very few are good. sandman and lucifer being the best.

good read

everyone's opinion is different

gotta love powa

Sandman is considered by many to be the greatest comic book run of all time. Claremont's X-Men is not far behind. Kinda funny, because it's a story of abstract beings.

agreed

claremont was da man

Blah. Even if Scathan returns you can't expect to compare the two? I have no idea what guy is referring to buy consider how when starhawk was reintroduced.... During the current guardians of the galaxy...

And let's remember in our current cosmic hierarchy no mention is there of the hawk god...

Personally I'd think if there is a Scathan and he is weaker than the old gotg issues you could argue he is developing his power...

You could also argue a ret con. :-/

Overall though with regards to Scathan? As far as how powerful he is? All is saw him do was blind protege... A boy who's powers comes from observing people. :-/

win win for ole guy222

Lucifer hands down. He can exist as a concept entity.

Going with Lucifer.

Take away Lucifers powers, and I'd still vote for him.

is the new lucifer comic out

Hope not. It ended perfectly.

i have it

good read

Lucifer Morningstar ftw

.......

Originally posted by rotiart
Blah. Even if Scathan returns you can't expect to compare the two? I have no idea what guy is referring to buy consider how when starhawk was reintroduced.... During the current guardians of the galaxy...

And let's remember in our current cosmic hierarchy no mention is there of the hawk god...

Personally I'd think if there is a Scathan and he is weaker than the old gotg issues you could argue he is developing his power...

You could also argue a ret con. :-/

Overall though with regards to Scathan? As far as how powerful he is? All is saw him do was blind protege... A boy who's powers comes from observing people. :-/
There is no mention of the hawk God because that took place in the future; he may not be around yet. I heard a theory a long time ago that Hawkgod was Warlock in a more evolved form.

also rumored he was goin to replace eternity

Scathan the Approver wins.

Originally posted by lilshogun Lucifer hands down. He can exist as a concept entity.

what do u mean by this?