Mace Windu vs Maul and Dooku

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Kotor3
Who wins?

DARTH POWER
Dooku's tough enough on his own. And Maul is no slouch. So its a bit overkill IMO. Team 10/10.

Zett
Yeah agree, the duo wins 10/10. Dooku would be able to do this on his own (in fact he is equal to Mace with saber and better in the force). But with Maul on his side? No contest.

axel_jovan
Duo wins, hands down.

Darth_Glentract
Mace just can't hang with both of them at once.

KuRuPT Thanosi
Where is it stated Dooku is superior to Windu in the force... if it's not said.. what feats clearly show this to be true.

truejedi
yeah, mace has more force feats, tbh...

ares834
Dooku almost effortlessly dispatched Sora Bulq with the force... That's more impressive than any thing Mace has done if we exclude the cartoon.

truejedi
if? lovely. yeah, Sidious is Kiiiiinda a chump if we exclude the cartoon. Dooku isn't very good at all if we exclude the time he almost effortlessly dispatched Sora Bulq with the force.

ares834
The cartoon is supposedly exaggerated so there is a reason that it can be excluded. However, I have yet to see comics be stated as such.

truejedi
Did you miss where Windu used the force against Grievous? Did you miss the cartoon? How much is the cartoon exaggerated? Can YOU say? Cause sorry, but who made you judge?

ares834
If the cartoon is exagerated, which according to Filoni it is and Borbarad claims someone calls it exagerated in the commentary, then the source is unreliable. You're right I don't know how exagerated it is and therefore I would not use it all. For or against charaters.

truejedi
and yet you would use a COMIC strip? where the only thing that backs your argument is your OWN interpretation of what the picture shows you?

ares834
Lol. Is that your argument. That my interpretation is somehow flawed... Lol. Dooku shoots lightning at him knocking him out... That's what happens no interpretation needed.

truejedi
how long did it take? for the lightning to knock him out, i mean?

Eminence
Such as...


Selective memory there, eh?

That Dooku has engaged or bested on-screen/paper more characters of note than any other figure in canon is literally incontestable. Further, a completely unprecedented number of his engagements are against multiple adversaries, and of all such contests that immediately come to mind he cowed or dispatched one or more foes with his command of the Force (Bulq, Ventress/Naa'leth/Karis, Ventress/Savage, Obi-Wan).


No more time than it took Tholme to protest vocally and attack, which is secondary because even taken to its inevitable conclusion your angle here is irrelevant. There are at least half a dozen other instances I can think of right now in which Dooku downs or incapacitates a prominent Force-sensitive warrior with a single burst of lightning, at least five of which occur on film or in animation, to say nothing of his telekinetic prowess. It is consistent with these showings and the most direct interpretation of the comic one would take to conclude that Bulq's incapacitation took a couple of seconds at best.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Eminence
Further, a completely unprecedented number of his engagements are against multiple adversaries, and of all such contests that immediately come to mind he cowed or dispatched one or more foes with his command of the Force (Bulq, Ventress/Naa'leth/Karis, Ventress/Savage, Obi-Wan).




This.

Plus feat wise Dooku has been shown to lift more with his TK:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfIEdlba5ZQ

Originally posted by truejedi
and yet you would use a COMIC strip? where the only thing that backs your argument is your OWN interpretation of what the picture shows you?

Thing is Dooku dominates guys like Bulq (with the Force) on a consistent basis in different mediums including the movies.

The reason a lot of us are sceptical of Mace's uberness in the cwmini, is:

1. It was a one-off. We've never seen him do anything like that again.
2. It happened only in that one medium which many sources have called exaggerated.

But dnt get me wrong Mace is still uber with the Force. Crushing 2 Destroyer droids comes to mind.

zoom3
Well, Mace Windu is Master of the Order(for all who don't know what that is, it's not the same thing as Grand Master; that's Yoda cool ), but Maul and Tyranus are both accomplished Sith Lords. Maul destroyed Black Sun evil face (and in the process and kill a Nightsister) and Tyranus was one of the best in the Order. He was a powerful force user and a skilled lightsaber fighter. Mace is a master of Vaapad, and also a skilled lightsaber fighter. He also almost killed Sidious, but against two Sith Lords, he would lose.

Arab Jedi
if Obi Wan could kill Maul, I am pretty sure Windu could easily. Dooku is powerful, but more powerful than Windu? I think they're about equal.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Arab Jedi
if Obi Wan could kill Maul, I am pretty sure Windu could easily.


mad mad mad mad mad mad mad mad mad

KuRuPT Thanosi
Still waiting to see the feats that put Dooku clearly above Mace... since when is the cartoon not canon?

ares834
Who said it was not canon? The thing with the cartoon is some authoritative sources claim it is exagerated.

Zett
Yeah, cartoon is included in the canon sources (as "C" canon). It means that cartoon is at the same canon level along with comics, some books, games etc.
In G-canon Dooku shows much better force feats.
In T-canon (TCW) Dooku also shows much better force feats.
In C-canon Dooku still shows better force feats:
-comics - Dooku looks much stronger
-cartoon - Mace looks better because of battle of Dantooine (in this case Mace's force feets are exaggerated - prove: AotC (battle of Geonosis), Shatterpoint, TCW (Death Trap, R2D2 come home) - in all of this sources he wasn't able to do, what he did in battle of Dantooine.
-books - Dooku looks a lot of better (in Yoda: DR he is clearly describe as a better force user).

Mizukage Yoda
Originally posted by Zett
Yeah, cartoon is included in the canon sources (as "C" canon). It means that cartoon is at the same canon level along with comics, some books, games etc.
In G-canon Dooku shows much better force feats.
In T-canon (TCW) Dooku also shows much better force feats.
In C-canon Dooku still shows better force feats:
-comics - Dooku looks much stronger
-cartoon - Mace looks better because of battle of Dantooine (in this case Mace's force feets are exaggerated - prove: AotC (battle of Geonosis), Shatterpoint, TCW (Death Trap, R2D2 come home) - in all of this sources he wasn't able to do, what he did in battle of Dantooine.
-books - Dooku looks a lot of better (in Yoda: DR he is clearly describe as a better force user).

The Clone Wars cartoon is also T-Canon, not only is it T-canon, but in G-canon material (ROTS commentary) they reference an incident regarding Mace Windu.
T-canon includes anything that has or will appear on the TV within the past decade or so. T means Television.

Zett
Any proves/quotes? I've one for You:

"C-canon is Continuity Canon, consisting of all recent works (and many older works) released under the name of Star Wars: books, comics, games, cartoons, non-theatrical films, and more" - starwars.wikia.com

"T-canon refers to the canon level comprising only the two television shows: Star Wars: The Clone Wars and the Star Wars live-action TV series. Its precedence over C-Level canon was confirmed by Chee."
- wikipedia

Mizukage Yoda
Originally posted by Zett
Any proves/quotes? I've one for You:

"C-canon is Continuity Canon, consisting of all recent works (and many older works) released under the name of Star Wars: books, comics, games, cartoons, non-theatrical films, and more" - starwars.wikia.com

"T-canon refers to the canon level comprising only the two television shows: Star Wars: The Clone Wars and the Star Wars live-action TV series. Its precedence over C-Level canon was confirmed by Chee."
- wikipedia

You just proved my claim with your quote.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
You just proved my claim with your quote.

No, he just proved you wrong. CWmini was C-Canon. T-Canon is just for the new show(s).

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Still waiting to see the feats that put Dooku clearly above Mace...

Its Mace who needs to prove himself on Dooku's level (with the Force).

When Mace completely dominates the likes of Obi-Wan, Ventress, Bulq, Savage with the Force while simultaneously fighting off another force user, then we can talk.

And in terms of pure TK, what has Mace lifted greater than Dooku's Multiple Stone pillar feat??

Lord Lucien
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
The Clone Wars cartoon is also T-Canon, not only is it T-canon, but in G-canon material (ROTS commentary) they reference an incident regarding Mace Windu.
Lol yeah they'll do that.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
No, he just proved you wrong. CWmini was C-Canon. T-Canon is just for the new show(s).
That dual quote Zett provided seemed to simultaneously support and contradict Star Wars: The Clone Wars spot in canon. Guess it depends on the first quote's definition of 'cartoon'. It might just be referring top the 80's cartoons, Droids and Ewoks.

viddy9
Dooku used to be Windu's superior in the Jedi Order, he could take Windu by himself, Windu is overrated and arrogant. With Maul there as well, Windu would be dead within minutes.

Mizukage Yoda
Originally posted by Arab Jedi
if Obi Wan could kill Maul, I am pretty sure Windu could easily. Dooku is powerful, but more powerful than Windu? I think they're about equal.

Uhhh Maul is likely on par with TPM Windu. It is only post Vaapad training that Windu is soundly above him.

Batman-Prime
Team in an epic shitstomp.

truejedi
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Uhhh Maul is likely on par with TPM Windu.

based on what?

Zett
@truejedi
Wookie probably. It says that TPM Qui-Gon was almost on par with TPM Mace. And Maul was much better then Qui-Gon, yeah?

ares834
It does, but I looked for that quote in the source wookie says it is in and was unable to find it.

DARTH POWER
Its all just speculation.. We have no idea how powerful Windu was at that point..

But Im betting not as powerful as his AOTC/ROTS self.

So Maul probably was closer to Mace's league at that time than Obi-Wan was to Maul's league, which is what I believe Mizukage Yoda's point was.

Mizukage Yoda
Originally posted by truejedi
based on what?

It was stated that Qui-Gon and Mace were spar buddies they were at the very least on the same level.

truejedi
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
It was stated that Qui-Gon and Mace were spar buddies they were at the very least on the same level.

what? sparring buddies are on the same level now? Luke sparred with 7 Jedi Masters (and kicked their asses) in LOTF. so that means being ones sparring partner absolutely does NOT make you equals. Who did Yoda spar with, if no one was his equal?

Nephthys
Yoda didn't spar. Remember that before his duel with Dooku he hadn't practiced in ages. stick out tongue

Eminence
What book?

Nephthys
I think its in Fury. I remember it vaguely and I seem to recall that its after the Jedi move to their hidden base. I think its the scene where they come up with their plan to plant a tracker on Caedus' cape.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Nephthys
Yoda didn't spar. Remember that before his duel with Dooku he hadn't practiced in ages. stick out tongue

Yep Mace asks Yoda if he wants to spar in the comic "Schism" set a few months after AOTC. Yoda replies "Practice I had with Count Dooku. Good enough for me that was."

Originally posted by truejedi
what? sparring buddies are on the same level now?

Yeah so if he sparred equally with Qui-Gon its not unreasonable to assume in an all out he was probably roughly around Maul's level (Maul was considerably above Qui-Gon).

Remember this is 10 years before AOTC. And most people agree that even AOTC Mace is below ROTS Mace.

I would personaly put Mace's combat level something like this:

TPM Mace roughly = TPM Maul
AOTC Mace roughly = AOTC Dooku
ROTS Mace roughly = ROTS Sidious.

truejedi
we know nothing about those mace's. pure speculation on your part really, but it put it where you want, what does it really matter?

DARTH POWER
^ Yeah I did say on the last page its just speculation esp. regarding TPM Mace. We have a much better idea about AOTC Mace though. And of course we know what ROTS Mace can do.

But you're right, doesn't really matter.

I think the whole thing started by someone saying TPM Obi-Wan was =/> Maul, and someone else said thats crazy because that would put Padawan Obi-Wan close to TPM Mace's league..

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