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The Shape changer Werewolves from Twilight battles the werewolves from Underworld. Who is superior?

I think this thread has bene done before.


Both are super human. However, the Twilight werewolves could fight almost on even "foot" with the Twilight vamps. The Twilight vamps are leagues better than the Underworld vamps.


By the transitive relational property (math...bare with me), can we conclude that A > C?

I am not sure. The Twilight werewolves have less "mobility" than the Underworld version. The Underworld versions can standup and user their arms like hoomanz.

I agree. The TwiWolves kill TwiVamps. Lycans get mauled.

Anyone say Lucian or William?

Wasn't the New Moon Twi Wolves the size of a horse? I heard they had to be re sized to be smaller in Eclipse.

Well the U Wolves do have arms and are able to grab and bite. If Raze manage to jump on one of the Twi Wolves back and clutch them from there. I can see this as an advantage.

Originally posted by the ninjak
I agree. The TwiWolves kill TwiVamps. Lycans get mauled.

Yes, the Twi-Wolves are around the size of small-ish horses. They appear to be stockier (sp?) than a horse but smaller in height. So they may be around the same mass.

William was a pure blood - the very first Werewolf Tannis told Selene and Michael. Lucian was the next generation of Werewolf. Both Lucian and William have hundreds of years of combat experience. TwiWolves do not due to the fact they are mortal. Jacob had his ass handed to him by a New Born - he couldn't face Lucian or William in a fight. Besides, William would turn Forks into his personal playground and the Cullens wouldn't be able to stop him. Thousands of pure-blood Lycans in Forks.

Ugh I hate when people challenge Twilight things, they're written as "the perfect monster" with no flaws, just benefits. From the start, they have an unfair advantage because Stephenie Meyer wrote a tween series where the vampires sparkle and the werewolves can choose when to change. The only downsides are found in being human.

So I can never answer these things fairly, I always take fifty points off of the twi-creatures just for the principle of the thing.

Other then the elder vamps in Underworld the average vampire seems scared to take on a werewolf alone

Originally posted by golem370
Other then the elder vamps in Underworld the average vampire seems scared to take on a werewolf alone

Yep, most non-elder vampires need weapons (and lots if it) to put down a Lycan (and even then usually fail). Elders like Viktor on the other hand, can bitchslap them with ease.

That suddenly made me think... why didn't Amelia own the Lycans in the first movie? I know they were ambushed, but with her keen senses, superior strength and speed she should've been able to kill them all or at least flee.

Originally posted by Placidity
Yep, most non-elder vampires need weapons (and lots if it) to put down a Lycan (and even then usually fail). Elders like Viktor on the other hand, can bitchslap them with ease.

That suddenly made me think... why didn't Amelia own the Lycans in the first movie? I know they were ambushed, but with her keen senses, superior strength and speed she should've been able to kill them all or at least flee.


There were several "elder" lycans in that group...maybe.


If they had Raze and Lucian, they could probably take down a train car full of vampires with one being an elder.


Remember that Lucian was a bit more than a match for Viktor. Amelia is younger than Viktor.

So having two "elder" Lycans against only 1 elder and some fodder should be a landslide victory for the Lycans. Consider that it looks like a group of Lycans did the killing (look at the massacre as Selene investigates the mess).




Side note: Amelia is the most unexplored interesting character from the Underworld series. A female elder vampire: Come ON! They should have kept her around until at least 2...or given her some feats with screen time.

Viktor punked Raze because he had already been a vamp for at least a few decades to a century before Raze even got turned. The gap wasn't that great between he and Lucian though, especially since Lucian was the first Lycan.

Amelia got torn up because I believe she got turned long after Michael turned Viktor, so while she was the 3rd oldest vampire in existence, it wasn't enough.

I'm going with the Underworld werewolves. The Twilight wolves didn't do shit aside from run and try to bite things.

Hey guys, is it ever stated that Lycans grew stronger with age? It has always been in my view that werewolves did not become stronger with age unlike vampires (not specifically talking about Underworld).

The fact that William and Lucian are special Lycans/Werewolves makes it even harder to work out.

Originally posted by Psychotron
I'm going with the Underworld werewolves. The Twilight wolves didn't do shit aside from run and try to bite things.

Well what else were Twiwolves going to do besides "bite things" ?

This is actually an interesting battle since I believe they are both equally vulnerable to each other. Twiwolves can rip them apart with their bite, and Lycans have razor sharp claws (slash to the throat might end it), a lesser bite and also a humanoid advantage.

Both are pretty fast although Twiwolves are shown to be able to catch Twivamps so that gives them a small advantage, however I think the humanoid Lycans give them a maneuverability advantage.

Healing factor-wise I think the Twiwolves are vastly inferior, Jacob was whining like a little girl for hours after having his ribs broken. I suspect it would take a Lycan far less time to heal from a similar injury. However, overall the point is likely moot because even though Lycans heal faster, it ain't going to help if they are missing a large chunk of flesh from a Twiwolf bite.

The thing I really want to know which will probably determine my view on the fight is the durability of the Twiwolves...not much indication of what level they are at. I mean Jacob got crushed, but that was by a new-born.

Undecided...

Some interesting ages I pulled from Wiki

Marcus - Over 1600 yrs old
Viktor - Over 1600
Amelia - 1400
Selene - 632

Lucian - 795
Raze - 600

In Underworld, two Lycans who were old/experienced enough to shift at will were going at it when Lucian broke it up. They were covered in cuts and gashes when they turned back human, and were healed in seconds.

And while the Lycan getting stronger with age thing isn't specifically stated, I think it's implied since the older lycans could take silver without many problems, shift at will, things of that nature. And it's not out of the question considering Micheal and William were essentially equal immortals, with the only difference ending up being what they were bitten by.

I'm just going to come into this thread and point out that Lucian seems to believe that, by the time of the first Underworld movie, he would be unable to take on Viktor, despite defeating him in the past.

This implies that even particularly powerful Lycans like Lucian don't seem to get stronger with age, or at least not to the same extent as a vampire.

Wasn't Lucian weakened by silver in RotL but able to force out multiple silver-bullets by flexing in Underworld?

If so, seems Lycans do become more powerful with age in some degree.

Didn't a single silver bullet kill him in Underworld though?

Haven't seen the film in years, but iirc, he was shot with many, many, many bullets and couldn't do that flex-and-melt-the-bullets-out move he had done earlier in the hallway.

Wouldn't surprise me if you're right though, shit films like these often care little over continuity.

I don't really feel like watching the movie to find out, lol.

Lucian had his problems with Viktor because he didn't want to take the chance of being beaten before he could spite him by making a hybrid.

And while he did get taken down by a single bullet, it was a prototype designed to pump a crazy amount of silver directly into a Lycan's bloodstream. Viktor would have gone down the same way if they'd come up with a UV bullet like that. Even then though, it took a while for it to kill him.

I really don't care enough for Underworld to go into a rage about them loosing but they do indeed loose, I think. Well considering that the TwiWolves are supposed to be almost as fast as the vampires in Twilight and just as strong, I'd give it to them.

I'm just guessing when I say all of this so if I'm wrong I appologize.

Lycans beat Twiwolves

How so? I mean even if the Twiverse is lame, they are pretty overpowered from what I've heard.

They're really not.

It only seems that way because the stronger vampires don't tend to be in movies.

Twilight is a pretty weak verse.

Twivamps are supposed to be as hard as stone or something. Underworld Lycans were tearing up stone walls as they ran on them.

Really? I though the Twiverse was full of overpowered Mary Sues with no weaknesses whatsoever. I mean aren't the typical weaknesses of lycanthropes or skinwalkers non-existent in that verse?

But if they're not that's cool too.

The werewolves don't have the traditional weaknesses because they aren't real werewolves. But they're often over hyped because they fought some twivamps, whoopty doo.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Really? I though the Twiverse was full of overpowered Mary Sues with no weaknesses whatsoever. I mean aren't the typical weaknesses of lycanthropes or skinwalkers non-existent in that verse?

But if they're not that's cool too.

Physically Twilight vampires are relatively strong compared to some vampires, and fast, but that's the only real advantage they have, and sometimes not even then, depending on the vampires in question.

The Twilight vampires are more durable than Underworld vamps, yeah, being basically immune to bullets, and in most cases are stronger.

IMO though the top-tiers of Underworld, like Marcus, are > the Twivamps, at least any Twivamp I know of.

But what happened to the whole running at 200 mph thing that was going around and being able kill horsesized wolves with superstrength.

I'm just very confused right now, I mean if Lucien and Victor were kind of equal and assuming Victor could take on a Twivamp, then wouldn't that make Lucien or older werewolves a match for the Skin-walkers?

Originally posted by Placidity
Hey guys, is it ever stated that Lycans grew stronger with age? It has always been in my view that werewolves did not become stronger with age unlike vampires (not specifically talking about Underworld).

The fact that William and Lucian are special Lycans/Werewolves makes it even harder to work out.


They all came from Corvin and he was said to be strong enough to stop Marcus who was a hybrid at that point. It was indeed confirmed that the elder Corvinas gave Selene a big boost in physical ability including regen.

Back in the day...William was too strong for even the vampires to take down. In the future...it is debatable on whether or not they could take him down because he laid dormant for what...1000 years?

So you could be right about Lycans not advancing. It would appear that they are just "strong" period. Oh, and, Viktor appears to be much stronger after his resurrection in the first film than in Rise of the Lycans. So vamps and immortals progress but Lycans appear not to. This is pure speculation and since the novel of "Rise of the Lycans" says that both brothers were immortal before their animals bites, it would be likely that Lycans progress with ability the older they get, as well.


Originally posted by Robtard
Haven't seen the film in years, but iirc, he was shot with many, many, many bullets and couldn't do that flex-and-melt-the-bullets-out move he had done earlier in the hallway.

Wouldn't surprise me if you're right though, shit films like these often care little over continuity.

The difference, iirc, was one were just silver and the other were liquid silver which quickly infused with the Lycan's blood killing them more quickly. The liquid silver was an "amp" the vamps figured out with their technological advances. Awesome, imo.

I love the shit out of the series, btw. Sure, I don't give any but the first film a 9, but it is a great series.

The reason William didn't seem to advance any was because he was imprisoned for 800 years without any nourishment.

HOLY SHIT! bwhahahahah


http://underworld.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Hybrid?display=exhibition&sort=alphabetical


Click on "Jacob Lane" and read his description.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
But what happened to the whole running at 200 mph thing that was going around and being able kill horsesized wolves with superstrength.

I'm just very confused right now, I mean if Lucien and Victor were kind of equal and assuming Victor could take on a Twivamp, then wouldn't that make Lucien or older werewolves a match for the Skin-walkers? They can do that, yeah. That's not as impressive as it sounds.

Eh, I wouldn't argue Viktor against a Twivamp, due to their durability.

I might argue Marcus though. Maybe. If I ever gave a shit. I probably wouldn't.

No one really cares about what you'd argue. Your opinion is my ass.

You're black.

You don't have a soul, much less a valid opinion.

A severe raping of the Twilight pansies would ensue if they ever duked it out.

Originally posted by NemeBro
I might argue Marcus though. Maybe. If I ever gave a shit. I probably wouldn't.

Marcus would get his ass handed to him by every twivamp in existence including "7 year" old Renesme. This is how severe the difference between the two universes are.

Nope.

Yep.

If you throw in the Super Lycan from Awakening. No Chance!!!!

Marcus is physically stronger than any Twivamp, obviously.

We basically see James have his head ripped off.

Ergo, Marcus rips off their heads.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Marcus is physically stronger than any Twivamp, obviously.


You will need to mention some feats for that claim.

How I compare the two:

Strength: Currently Contested

Speed: TwiVamps by far

Durability: TwiVamps (bullet proof)

Stamina/Endurance: TwiVamps

X Factor: Depends on the specific TwiVamp - TwiVamp special abilities incl mind-reading, foresight, sensory deprivation, Illusion generation etc etc.

Even if one concedes the strength advantage (which I don't until convinced), the Underworld Vampire is still easily dominated due to the TwiVamp's other superior abilities and powers.

Can't say Marcus is physically stronger than any Twi vamp, he can be in par or less. I would say his cunning prowess and fighting abilty can take out a Twilight Vampire ( w/o any special abilities)Originally posted by NemeBro
Marcus is physically stronger than any Twivamp, obviously.

We basically see James have his head ripped off.

Ergo, Marcus rips off their heads.

What's the strongest Twi-Vamp feat?

Marcus knocked a Duece and a half(huge truck) off the road by shoulder charging it.

Yanked a helicopter out of flight with one pull.

Lifted a portcullis that was solid stone, several feet thick, which equals a bunch of tons.

Underworld wins.

Originally posted by Placidity
You will need to mention some feats for that claim.

How I compare the two:

Strength: Currently Contested

Speed: TwiVamps by far

Durability: TwiVamps (bullet proof)

Stamina/Endurance: TwiVamps

X Factor: Depends on the specific TwiVamp - TwiVamp special abilities incl mind-reading, foresight, sensory deprivation, Illusion generation etc etc.

Even if one concedes the strength advantage (which I don't until convinced), the Underworld Vampire is still easily dominated due to the TwiVamp's other superior abilities and powers.

The feats for Marcus' strength have been mentioned, Ed's best strength feat is IIRC pushing over a tree.

As for speed, by far? What have they done to give them the incredible speed advantage? Newborn Michael was fast enough to be a blur to a vampire elder like Viktor, and Selene at some point in the second movie was dodging bullets, wasn't she?

In terms of durability the Twivamps win out, yes, but endurance? Marcus' superior healing factor seems to imply the opposite.

Originally posted by NemeBro
The feats for Marcus' strength have been mentioned, Ed's best strength feat is IIRC pushing over a tree.


Stopping a van with one arm. I'm sure DDM can list more.

Originally posted by NemeBro

As for speed, by far? What have they done to give them the incredible speed advantage? Newborn Michael was fast enough to be a blur to a vampire elder like Viktor, and Selene at some point in the second movie was dodging bullets, wasn't she?


I would have thought this point would be the least argued point actually. Have you actually seen the movies? (Not asking as an insult because I know many people would laugh at the idea of watching it)

Michael doing the blurring thing, I've heard about many times I've never bothered to watch it again. Either way, it is probably the only moment in the whole Underworld trilogy where such speed was displayed (maybe some in the new movie - I don't know?), so its fair to label it an uncharacteristic high end feat.

Regarding Selene, she definitely has superspeed, and was aim-dodging, but nowhere near as fast as Twivamps.

t-WguPPeeqI



The reason I said this is because Underworld Vampires have a more human anatomy than TwiVamps. They have shown signs of exhaustion throughout the trilogy, however the TwiVamps have not. It makes sense though, the TwiVamps are more physiologically "dead" than Underworld Vamps since they don't breath, have no blood circulation etc and the most persuasive argument is that they do not sleep - ever (sleeping is a form of rest obviously) , its no wonder they don't tire.

Again, there are also special abilities...

Stopping the van was actually calced to be about a class 5-10 feat IIRC.

As for the speed... What in that video did you just show me that Marcus or even Michael could not replicate? Hell, IIRC Selene has done the same damn thing, pre-Corvinus blood.

I am talking about Marcus. Have we seen Marcus get tired? Hell, William, his equal (Or inferior, considering Marcus is now a hybrid), was still much stronger than a normal Lycan after hundreds of years of starvation.

Originally posted by NemeBro

As for the speed... What in that video did you just show me that Marcus or even Michael could not replicate? Hell, IIRC Selene has done the same damn thing, pre-Corvinus blood.


Would you like to post a clip for comparison? I've seen Evolution quite a few times, their speed is clearly inferior to me.

Originally posted by NemeBro

I am talking about Marcus. Have we seen Marcus get tired? Hell, William, his equal (Or inferior, considering Marcus is now a hybrid), was still much stronger than a normal Lycan after hundreds of years of starvation.

I've seen him and upgraded Selene breath hard, thats a sign of being tired. Their healing factors keep them going, but Twivamps don't get tired at all, at least we have not seen it AND they NEVER SLEEP, so whichever way you cut it, Twivamp's endurance is at least equal or greater, never less.

Edit:

Also about William starving? We don't really know if Lycans, (or the original Lycan) really needs sustenance to keep going. We see that vampires lose their muscle mass and are reduced to a bony corpse after hibernation and require blood to rejuvenate, however Lycans likely do not have a similar need, William still looked like he did 800 years ago before he was locked up.

35iZsw4c0OU

In the first minute alone we see that Michael can move without apparently being seen at all, appearing right where Viktor landed after Michael hit him.

Originally posted by KingD19
What's the strongest Twi-Vamp feat?

Depends on your measure.

It could be Edward pushing an "alive" tree over near the base (a feat that puts him well past the 100+ ton lifter category and he's supposed to be a "weak" vampire compared to some of the brawler types in Twilight).

The other measure could be cracking the stones with Edward's body by Felix.

Another could be Edward barely extending his arm and it stops that van like it weighs nothing.

I would put the tree feat as the strongest. I found scholarly work that talked about the forces required to uproot "naked" trees which were in the tens of thousands of kilonewtons of force. The one Edward pushed over was "alive" and in the "frosty mountains". SO it would have been harder to uproot the tree due to the frozen ground.


That runs parallel with a comment Bella made in the book about cars being like styrofoam toys to the vampires.

Originally posted by KingD19
Marcus knocked a Duece and a half(huge truck) off the road by shoulder charging it.

A similar feat that Edward pulls off with far less effort: he just extended his hand.

Oh, and...he seemingly teleported from about 30 feet away to stop the van from crushing Bella. And you wonder why girls get all wet over Edward? He's a very archetypal "savior" type.

Originally posted by KingD19
Yanked a helicopter out of flight with one pull.

I destroyed why this is a good feat to use.

Basically, YOU could pull a helicopter out of the air. A helicopter hovering stationary is only supplying just enough lift force to stay in one spot. Pulling on a rope of a helicopter doing so will rock the helicopter and scare the shit out of the pilot. It's only the newer helicopters that have the gyoscroping and the "auto" correcting "self-righting technologies" in place (like the one that guy is using to create "jet cars" that would rev up the engines automatically in response to the "downward" pulling force.

Watch the video where he pulls the helicopter out of the sky: the helicopter's engines do not rev up.

Originally posted by KingD19
Lifted a portcullis that was solid stone, several feet thick, which equals a bunch of tons.

It was not several feat thick and it was metal.

Edward destroys that strength feat by leaps and bounds. Maybe by 10-50 times over.



Originally posted by NemeBro
Stopping the van was actually calced to be about a class 5-10 feat IIRC.

Yeah, gently extending your hand and allowing the van to bounce off of your hand due to your durability while also being in a crouching position does not show us even remotely close to his hi end strength feats. He might as well have held his hand up while someone threw a dodgeball at bella's face (and the dodgeball would have caused a normal person's hand to react even more than Edward's did to the car.) Watch the scene again: Edward's hand does not really show signs of even being affected by the inertia of the moving car.


The only time Edward really strained to do something strong was when he pushed a full grown and "live" tree over near it's base. That's well into the multi-hundred ton category. I also proved it, as well, with an independent and scientific source.






This is why Twilight should not be used in vs. discussions: there's very few people willing to actually engage in objective conversation when it comes to Twilight.

Source of the amount of force required to push over a tree you mentioned?

Originally posted by NemeBro
Source of the amount of force required to push over a tree you mentioned?

Me.





That's all you need.





It's in the MVF, somewhere. It was in another Twi-hate thread.

Look for kilonewton by my name. You might find it that way. Look for root by my name. You may find it that way, too.

That is more work than I am used to doing...

No but, legit, if this source does exist and does prove it takes however many kilonewtons of force to push over a living tree, then I would concede that Marcus is far weaker than the Twivamps.

Twilight Vamps regeneration is a question. Since they are made of some type of rock like material, I am sure the Underworld Were's has enough strength to break off an arm or two thus handicapping them.

Originally posted by lilshogun
Twilight Vamps regeneration is a question. Since they are made of some type of rock like material, I am sure the Underworld Were's has enough strength to break off an arm or two thus handicapping them.

It may be a possibility for the strongest of the Underworld Universe (we won't know until the strength debate is established), however its not really an advantage in their favor since TwiVamps can do the same and more to the Underworld Vampire, they can literally crush them.

About the regeneration, I do think the Underworld vampire has a superior HF in the traditional sense, but the Twivamp does have a HF too - they can be "put back together" even after being ripped apart - though thats irrelevant if they are broken thats the end for them in this fight. They also heal from cracks they receive from battle I believe.

Originally posted by Placidity
It may be a possibility for the strongest of the Underworld Universe (we won't know until the strength debate is established), however its not really an advantage in their favor since TwiVamps can do the same and more to the Underworld Vampire, they can literally crush them.

About the regeneration, I do think the Underworld vampire has a superior HF in the traditional sense, but the Twivamp does have a HF too - they can be "put back together" even after being ripped apart - though thats irrelevant if they are broken thats the end for them in this fight. They also heal from cracks they receive from battle I believe.

I don't think strength is debatable. Even the "weak" types are stupidly strong in Twilight. Well past characters like Thing, Colossus, and Sasquatch.

As far as healing factor, Edward's face cracks after Felix body slams him. It healed fairly quickly. It's around what Movie Wolverine's is: pretty damn fast. Keep in mind that this was a sick and starving Edward: he had not had any blood for about 3 months and was borderline "feral". But he still healed fairly quickly.

Thing can demolish plateaus by punching them.

Comic version anyway.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Thing can demolish plateaus by punching them.

Comic version anyway.

He's a 90-ton classer, though. Ninety!


Out of ability feats do not count!!!!!! RAAAGEEE!

I don't care what Marvel's website says (And I am pretty sure that is wrong actually, I am pretty positive that Thing's bio puts him at relatively low class 100).

Oh, and Colossus is even stronger than Thing. estahuh

The thing about Underworld is that they do have moments where its like "woah" but the rest of the time they exhibit lesser feats (though still very impressive compared to most other Vampire Universes). For example the random Lycan just running through a thick concrete wall in the first movie was pretty beast.

I don't remember Twivamps having real big strength feats.

Originally posted by NemeBro
I don't care what Marvel's website says (And I am pretty sure that is wrong actually, I am pretty positive that Thing's bio puts him at relatively low class 100).

Oh, and Colossus is even stronger than Thing. estahuh

It's not marvel's website but their own officially published stats "dat ewe canz bye!" uhuh

*checks marvel's website*

It's also there! And the fans agree with me.



I think of Edward as a stronger, smaller, much faster version of thing. Both organic 'rock' that are highly durable and strong.



Originally posted by Psychotron
I don't remember Twivamps having real big strength feats.

Humans tend to block out traumatic events as a means of coping. No doubt the event of being drug to a twilight movie by your girlfriend was traumatic.

Originally posted by dadudemon
It's not marvel's website but their own officially published stats "dat ewe canz bye!" uhuh

*checks marvel's website*

It's also there! And the fans agree with me.

I think of Edward as a stronger, smaller, much faster version of thing. Both organic 'rock' that are highly durable and strong.

You can think of him as whatever you want, but you're still wrong, to be frank.

I still haven't even seen the source you allegedly are using, and to be blunt I'm not going to search through a bunch of ****ing threads to find it.

The Thing has demolished plateaus, stopped physically a machine that could break through the crust of the planet, he has fought Iron Man, and taken on the Champion of the Universe and put on a decent showing, among other shit that I probably forget.

Originally posted by NemeBro
You can think of him as whatever you want, but you're still wrong, to be frank.

You mean I'll be right, of course. More right than you, at the minimum. Factually correct as a necessity of it being me. More correct than some scientist's estimates, at the most.

Originally posted by NemeBro
I still haven't even seen the source you allegedly are using, and to be blunt I'm not going to search through a bunch of ****ing threads to find it.

I am not going to play these games. You look it up yourself and on't be lazy. I already told you the key terms you could use to find the thread.

Originally posted by NemeBro
The Thing has demolished plateaus, stopped physically a machine that could break through the crust of the planet, he has fought Iron Man, and taken on the Champion of the Universe and put on a decent showing, among other shit that I probably forget.

I reject your obvious PIS and submit his ass getting handed to him by She-Hulk.

What, you think I am easily swayed by some of the more outlandish and common place and out of character feats?

You'll have to do better than that. I'm not the Marvel comic newb that you may have thought I was. estahuh I grew up on Marvel comics.


edit - I found the thread on my second search attempt. I also read the thread in the time it took me to post this post and make the edit. You're just being lazy. Look up the thread with a little bit of searching. It will take you a massive 30 seconds to find.

Originally posted by dadudemon
It's not marvel's website but their own officially published stats "dat ewe canz bye!" uhuh

*checks marvel's website*

It's also there! And the fans agree with me.


People who use handbooks to try to contradict on-panel showings should be assraped repeatedly with a splintery fencepost that's been buried halfway deep in Georgia mud.

I say that with nothing but respect and goodwill to you of course.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
People who use handbooks to try to contradict on-panel showings should be assraped repeatedly with a splintery fencepost that's been buried halfway deep in Georgia mud.

I say that with nothing but respect and goodwill to you of course.

I know, right?

This is why we have to go with the reasonable and official "guidelines" set forth by Marvel on their character's abilities. Getting beaten by She-Hulk: reasonable as they are around the same strength (she's weaker) with She-Hulk being a better H2H combatant. Meaning, the stupid out-of-character feats are just that: stupid and out of character. This is why we can't have nice things: some writers turn everything to shit or create massive amounts of CIS/PIS. "What's this? You can't generate thousands tons of force (ton-force) like you did against that battle ship? Man, that's reduced you to either using a shit-ton of CIS or creating PIS for this entire volume. Thanks, writers, for ruining shit with your outlandish feats in prior chapters!"


Edit - And the crust planet thingie...that was an ad, wasn't it? It wasn't an official 616 feat, iirc.

It's true that I was somewhat drunk when I saw the first three films, but I remember them. So what are their big strength feats that I've missed?

Originally posted by dadudemon
I know, right?

This is why we have to go with the reasonable and official "guidelines" set forth by Marvel on their character's abilities. Getting beaten by She-Hulk: reasonable as they are around the same strength (she's weaker) with She-Hulk being a better H2H combatant. Meaning, the stupid out-of-character feats are just that: stupid and out of character. This is why we can't have nice things: some writers turn everything to shit or create massive amounts of CIS/PIS. "What's this? You can't generate thousands tons of force (ton-force) like you did against that battle ship? Man, that's reduced you to either using a shit-ton of CIS or creating PIS for this entire volume. Thanks, writers, for ruining shit with your outlandish feats in prior chapters!"


Edit - And the crust planet thingie...that was an ad, wasn't it? It wasn't an official 616 feat, iirc.
From what I know of handbooks, they're written by non-writers who may not have read all or even most of the material on the characters in question and are really only supposed to give general ideas of character powers.

Same with website entries. Writers ignore them not out of ignorance or impertinence, but because they just don't care and neither should you.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
From what I know of handbooks, they're written by non-writers who may not have read all or even most of the material on the characters in question and are really only supposed to give general ideas of character powers.

Same with website entries. Writers ignore them not out of ignorance or impertinence, but because they just don't care and neither should you.

Actually, you should care about power continuity. It becomes childish and even idiotic if you have a character with wildly fluctuating abilities. You need to be grounded. This is part of the reason why "they" established abilities: so the writers could drawn upon them and write stories within their abilities. It also grounds them to certain rules. Not all stories and feats are reasonable within those ground rules. You then end up with CIS and PIS.

At least with Hulk, you can pretend that Hulk just got Madder to justify the durability and strength. I'm okay with some of the more outlandish feats because that was written into his character a looooong time ago.

Basically, you care just as much as I do. But the sake of this particular character and thread, you don't, just to make a point. Really, your taste in fiction is not that childish and underdeveloped. You've proven you have a keen eye to detail so it does bother when they write shit into stories. Maybe not as much myself or others, but you do notice.

What if his arms or hands are removed similar to what happened to Vampire Riley when his hands were ripped or mauled by Seth. Probably the HF process would not rapidly kick in due to the extent of the damage.

Now if we include the Super Lycan in Awaking that would be very very imposing. That giant werewolf has extreme fast healibng factor similar to wolverine.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I don't think strength is debatable. Even the "weak" types are stupidly strong in Twilight. Well past characters like Thing, Colossus, and Sasquatch.

As far as healing factor, Edward's face cracks after Felix body slams him. It healed fairly quickly. It's around what Movie Wolverine's is: pretty damn fast. Keep in mind that this was a sick and starving Edward: he had not had any blood for about 3 months and was borderline "feral". But he still healed fairly quickly.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I don't think strength is debatable. Even the "weak" types are stupidly strong in Twilight. Well past characters like Thing, Colossus, and Sasquatch.

Eward's best strength feat is uprooting a large tree so I'm not sure whether or not this is a bad joke.

Comparing the Twivamps to Sasquatch, Thing, and Colossus is just stupid.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Actually, you should care about power continuity. It becomes childish and even idiotic if you have a character with wildly fluctuating abilities. You need to be grounded. This is part of the reason why "they" established abilities: so the writers could drawn upon them and write stories within their abilities. It also grounds them to certain rules. Not all stories and feats are reasonable within those ground rules. You then end up with CIS and PIS.

At least with Hulk, you can pretend that Hulk just got Madder to justify the durability and strength. I'm okay with some of the more outlandish feats because that was written into his character a looooong time ago.

Basically, you care just as much as I do. But the sake of this particular character and thread, you don't, just to make a point. Really, your taste in fiction is not that childish and underdeveloped. You've proven you have a keen eye to detail so it does bother when they write shit into stories. Maybe not as much myself or others, but you do notice. Lol, I've grown out of the forum warrior mentality for the most part, hence why I'm not in the CBVF as much now, but I could give a care less about fixed power levels, granted I expect some form of consistency, but with Handbooks its as arbitrary as any level a writer might put a character at and (and this is more important) has LESS AUTHORITY IN MY VIEW than what's written on panel by a real writer.

You can't always take what the handbooks say as the gospel. For example, almost every handbook and fan page says Colossus only weighs 500lbs when he's armored. Yet at least 4 times on panel he's been described as being over a ton in weight. On panel evidence trumps handbook.

Originally posted by dadudemon
You mean I'll be right, of course. More right than you, at the minimum. Factually correct as a necessity of it being me. More correct than some scientist's estimates, at the most.

lolno.



Or I could just not look it up at all. I could do that too.



Why are you using the Thing being beaten by She-Hulk as evidence?. Since... She-Hulk is canonically stronger than The Thing, lifting the maximum weight The Thing works out with using one hand, and that was a feat from a while ago. IIRC she has gotten stronger. Hell, actually, didn't she beat Mortal Hercules in an arm-wrestling match? Mortal Hercules can lift far in excess of a hundred tons.

Though you are right, the Thing stopping the crust thingamabob was from an ad and not canon, sorry about that.



After I am done reading this chapter of Samurai Deeper Kyo I may look it up. Maybe.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Eward's best strength feat is uprooting a large tree so I'm not sure whether or not this is a bad joke.

No, his best feat is uprooting a tree, in the mountains, in the frozen ground, by applying a transverse force to the tree. It's 5 times harder, on average, to uproot a tree that direction. FYI.

Originally posted by KingD19
Comparing the Twivamps to Sasquatch, Thing, and Colossus is just stupid.

Indeed. Edward is stronger than all of them. Pretty lame to compare them, imo.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Lol, I've grown out of the forum warrior mentality for the most part, hence why I'm not in the CBVF as much now, but I could give a care less about fixed power levels, granted I expect some form of consistency, but with Handbooks its as arbitrary as any level a writer might put a character at and (and this is more important) has LESS AUTHORITY IN MY VIEW than what's written on panel by a real writer.

The writers that go overboard and right outrageous feats that are very out of character have no authority, in my view. This is also part of why I avoid the CBVF for the most part. It's just a wank fest of PIS feats half the time. I love some of my brothers in the CBVF...but I just can't be bothered by the b.s. (most of the time...sometimes...I give in to temptation and post).

Originally posted by NemeBro
lolno.

Do better than a "nuh uhhh".



Originally posted by NemeBro
Or I could just not look it up at all. I could do that too.

Generally, I couldn't be arsed to look it up, as well. But I found it in like 15-30 seconds.



Originally posted by NemeBro
Why are you using the Thing being beaten by She-Hulk as evidence?. Since... She-Hulk is canonically stronger than The Thing, lifting the maximum weight The Thing works out with using one hand, and that was a feat from a while ago. IIRC she has gotten stronger. Hell, actually, didn't she beat Mortal Hercules in an arm-wrestling match? Mortal Hercules can lift far in excess of a hundred tons.

I'm old-school. I thought she was still in the 50-70 tons area.

Also, I keep bringing her up because I'd **** the utter living shit out of She-Hulk if she were real. One of the best boner-inducing characters from Marvel. pained


You should be asking me why I keep bringing up thing, though: it's because both Thing and Edward are like....stone.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Though you are right, the Thing stopping the crust thingamabob was from an ad and not canon, sorry about that.

Holy shit...I was right? That was ages ago.


Originally posted by NemeBro
After I am done reading this chapter of Samurai Deeper Kyo I may look it up. Maybe.

If you do...and prove it...I may be arsed to post 2-3 ways Ulq showed excellent intelligence. 313 Don't ask for scans...because I'm still not motivated enough to read through dozens of chapters.

Really, Dadudemon? You're serious in saying Ed is stronger? I hope you're joking, unless you're talking about the movie versions. Even then, Movie Thing is stronger/more durable than any vamp.

In the comics, Colossus has tunneled through billions of tons of rock, caught a spaceship falling out of the sky that was large enough to make him look like a dot in comparison. Even yanked a tree root out of the ground and pulled up almost the entire root system with it. That's just a few things. Basically, comparing them is like comparing an MMA fighter with a 5th grader.

Why are we talkin Comic feats for?

He brought up She-Hulk, Colossus, Thing, and Sasquatch. Two of whom are comic only characters, and talked about comic feats and fights. DaDude actually thinks Edward Cullen is above those guys level.

Originally posted by KingD19
He brought up She-Hulk, Colossus, Thing, and Sasquatch. Two of whom are comic only characters, and talked about comic feats and fights. DaDude actually thinks Edward Cullen is above those guys level.

As an overall character he probably is

He's got them in reaction and movement speed, no question.

However he pales in comparison when it comes to durability and strength.

One full power punch from them would more than likely shatter him.

You know what, there is concrete PROOF that Colossus can beat Edward.

He already did it in Eclipse

Originally posted by KingD19
He brought up She-Hulk, Colossus, Thing, and Sasquatch. Two of whom are comic only characters, and talked about comic feats and fights. DaDude actually thinks Edward Cullen is above those guys level.

Those guys could stomp the ground. Once the Twivamp is in the air he loses his momentum, an aerial grab and they break him in half over their knees. Thunderclaps as well.

The funniest is Sasquatch. That would be the most brutal yet also fitting considering the environment.

Originally posted by Placidity
You know what, there is concrete PROOF that Colossus can beat Edward.

He already did it in Eclipse

Win.

Originally posted by Placidity
You know what, there is concrete PROOF that Colossus can beat Edward.

He already did it in Eclipse

Originally posted by KingD19
Really, Dadudemon? You're serious in saying Ed is stronger? I hope you're joking, unless you're talking about the movie versions. Even then, Movie Thing is stronger/more durable than any vamp.

We haven't once seen anything but the anti-vamp units, Werewolves, take out a vampire...OR another vampire take out another vampire.

As fact, Carlisle said no human army could stand against just 20 newborn vampires. Let's not forget that Carlisle may possibly be the most educated man on the entire planet.

Originally posted by KingD19
In the comics, Colossus has tunneled through billions of tons of rock,

Tunneling through rock and actually LIFTING tons of rocks are entirely different things. Applying a semi-decent force with a small surface area can accomplish the same. You do realize this is how a drillbit can drill through concrete, right? The same drills that can do that...I can stop with my bare hands (grabbing the holder piston thingie)....yet, it is still strong enough to drill through solid concrete with a sharp new masonry bit.

Originally posted by KingD19
caught a spaceship falling out of the sky that was large enough to make him look like a dot in comparison.

If it weighed well more than 100 tons, it is just idiotic PIS.

Originally posted by KingD19
Even yanked a tree root out of the ground and pulled up almost the entire root system with it.

That's approaching Edward-levels of strength.

Originally posted by KingD19
That's just a few things. Basically, comparing them is like comparing an MMA fighter with a 5th grader.

You mean comparing Edward to Colossus's and Thing's standard feats (that are in character) to Edward's feats that are also in character is like comparing Green Scar to Sasquatch (I'll give you a hint: Edward would be Green Scar in the comparison: tee hee). Of course, I am exaggerating, but no more than you are...I'm just exaggerating with the correct direction.


Originally posted by KingD19
He's got them in reaction and movement speed, no question.

However he pales in comparison when it comes to durability and strength.

One full power punch from them would more than likely shatter him.

I disagree. Edward is in the 200-400 tons level, iirc. Edward is also bullet-proof.

I would put Colossus durability as better than Edward's, for sure. But it is not that much different. I don't think Piotr can shatter Edward. It takes twivamp levels of strength.


Originally posted by Placidity
You know what, there is concrete PROOF that Colossus can beat Edward.

He already did it in Eclipse

lol. Nice.

Why do you think Colossus can't lift 400 tons?

Originally posted by dadudemon
No, his best feat is uprooting a tree, in the mountains, in the frozen ground, by applying a transverse force to the tree. It's 5 times harder, on average, to uproot a tree that direction. FYI.

So he titled over a large tree, cool.

Thing flipped a 300 foot tall monster:
http://h.imagehost.org/view/0901/MarvelTwo-in-One013-1213.jpg
http://h.imagehost.org/view/0498/MarvelTwo-in-One013-15

Sasquatch tossed a 250 ton jumbo jet effortlessly:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...a/Sasplane1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...nyX-Men120b.jpg

And if you think that's decent, wait until I actually put in some effort into looking for feats. Cosmic characters like Drax in particular are going to have you wigging out.

Edit: Your idea that handbooks are the standard or somehow invalidate on panel showings is retarded. They're at best a secondary source and are worthless when it comes to measuring power the way you are. Thing, Colossus, and other second tier bricks have left 100 tons in the dust a while ago.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
So he titled over a large tree, cool.

Thing flipped a 300 foot tall monster:
http://h.imagehost.org/view/0901/MarvelTwo-in-One013-1213.jpg
http://h.imagehost.org/view/0498/MarvelTwo-in-One013-15

I automatically dismiss complete bullshit feats like that. It's out of character and PIS to the max. Wrong thread to have you bullshit Comic Book versus discussions in, btw.

Additionally, Thing would not have been able to get any leverage on such a beast because he'd just sink into the soft soft muddy "ground".

Additionally, this is the MVF. Go by movies. Ben experienced what appeared to be maximum effort when trying to hold up that Firetruck on the bridge.

Keeping things in context and with the correct sub-forums is important.

What is the weight of a fully loaded firetruck? About 40,000 pounds, or 20 tons.

Gooooood daaaaay sir!

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Sasquatch tossed a 250 ton jumbo jet effortlessly:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...a/Sasplane1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...nyX-Men120b.jpg

1. Page not found. You should try harder on finding a "live" link from the CBRT.

2. I automatically dismiss complete bullshit feats like that. It's out of character and PIS to the max. Wrong thread to have you bullshit Comic Book versus discussions in, btw.

3. Tossing a 250 ton Jumbo Jet is out of character and PIS to the max for Sasquatch. Automatically is a shit feat and should always be eliminated from consideration in any thread especially vs. threads unless the thread starter wants to put in shit feats like that. This is my opinion, of course. This is also why I prefer Manga/Anime and movie vs. discussions more: there's less plot induced stupidity via waaaaaay out of character feats. I blame it on stupid American Comic book story writers.



Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
And if you think that's decent, wait until I actually put in some effort into looking for feats. Cosmic characters like Drax in particular are going to have you wigging out.

I'm pissing myself, right now.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Edit: Your idea that handbooks are the standard or somehow invalidate on panel showings is retarded. They're at best a secondary source and are worthless when it comes to measuring power the way you are. Thing, Colossus, and other second tier bricks have left 100 tons in the dust a while ago.

Your idea that shit writing and out of character performances should be accepted in CBVF is retarded (also why I do not frequent that place). The official guides are not just for the fans: it is to ground dumbass writers who have routinely taken shit too far and give characters feats that are out of character. That doesn't stop the writers or the editors from going ahead with those out of characters feats, though.


Keep in mind that you should stick to the Movie feats inside this place, sir.


Regardless, Edward is still stronger than Sasquatch or Thing based on the same feats and conditions you have supplied. I'll just throw in a the same bullshit writing and PIS for an Edward comic and now Edward is can throw two Jumbo Jets with one hand each (that's not that far off for him, movie feat wise as he's already pushing the hundreds of tons lifting category...I know, it probably pains you to read that).


Originally posted by NemeBro
Why do you think Colossus can't lift 400 tons?

Derp. He's the Juggernaut, nao. Derpy derpy doooo!

Originally posted by dadudemon
I automatically dismiss complete bullshit feats like that. It's out of character and PIS to the max. Wrong thread to have you bullshit Comic Book versus discussions in, btw.

Additionally, Thing would not have been able to get any leverage on such a beast because he'd just sink into the soft soft muddy "ground".

Additionally, this is the MVF. Go by movies. Ben experienced what appeared to be maximum effort when trying to hold up that Firetruck on the bridge.

Keeping things in context and with the correct sub-forums is important.

What is the weight of a fully loaded firetruck? About 40,000 pounds, or 20 tons.

Gooooood daaaaay sir!



Is this some kind of joke? You adhere to handbooks, at best a second hand non canon source and you dismiss on panel showings? This isn't Spider-Man beating Firelord. I'm sorry, but you don't get to throw out feats willy nilly because you don't like them.

You were discussing the comic versions of the character no? If so, it's relevant.

Thing lifts and tosses the Louvre Pyramid (Thousands and thousands of tons):
http://i.imagehost.org/view/0923/Fantastic_Four_v3_001-34
http://i.imagehost.org/view/0719/Fantastic_Four_v3_001-40

Completely surpasses the force equilvant to crush a small mountain:
http://a.imagehost.org/view/0409/MarvelTwo-in-One077-02
http://a.imagehost.org/view/0998/MarvelTwo-in-One077-01

The fact that your entire argument revolves around doing math doesn't help you any. Characters of this nature aren't that feat heavy, but I'm sure you have no problem figuring out how much force it takes to send Hulk flying through a mountain etc.

Originally posted by dadudemon
1. Page not found. You should try harder on finding a "live" link from the CBRT.

2. I automatically dismiss complete bullshit feats like that. It's out of character and PIS to the max. Wrong thread to have you bullshit Comic Book versus discussions in, btw.

3. Tossing a 250 ton Jumbo Jet is out of character and PIS to the max for Sasquatch. Automatically is a shit feat and should always be eliminated from consideration in any thread especially vs. threads unless the thread starter wants to put in shit feats like that. This is my opinion, of course. This is also why I prefer Manga/Anime and movie vs. discussions more: there's less plot induced stupidity via waaaaaay out of character feats. I blame it on stupid American Comic book story writers.

My apologies, here you go:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/Sasplane1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/UncannyX-Men120b.jpg

If you're going to dismiss every showing I post because you don't like it then just tell me now so I wont waste my time. I can't show a person that they're wrong if they won't even accept the evidence.

That was Saquatch's first appearance, and yet it's PIS? Lol, wow.

Sasquatch pulls and lifts a destroyer nany ship (Has an average displacement of around 5,000 tonnes or higher):
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/Hulk_Annual_1979_008_11.jpg

Originally posted by dadudemon
I'm pissing myself, right now.

Your idea that shit writing and out of character performances should be accepted in CBVF is retarded (also why I do not frequent that place). The official guides are not just for the fans: it is to ground dumbass writers who have routinely taken shit too far and give characters feats that are out of character. That doesn't stop the writers or the editors from going ahead with those out of characters feats, though.

Wait until you see Drax busting a planet, tearing a Star in half etc.

You want to throw out any showing that contradicts your opinion and yet my stance -accepting what happens on panel- is retarded? The irony.

You not only think handbooks are accurate, you believe writers pay them any heed? Haha.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Keep in mind that you should stick to the Movie feats inside this place, sir.

Regardless, Edward is still stronger than Sasquatch or Thing based on the same feats and conditions you have supplied. I'll just throw in a the same bullshit writing and PIS for an Edward comic and now Edward is can throw two Jumbo Jets with one hand each (that's not that far off for him, movie feat wise as he's already pushing the hundreds of tons lifting category...I know, it probably pains you to read that).

Well I'm discussing purely the comic incarnations. If we can't do it here, let's continue this in the comic book section. I'm not that knowledgeable on these particular characters so I'm certain there are a few high end feats that I've forgotten that will be posted. Can't wait until K-M sees that you don't think Sasquatch is class 100.

I guess my earlier question is answered. No matter how much evidence I post, if you won't be swayed, then I won't bother anymore.

I'm curious how far your willing to take this adherence to handbooks. For a decent amount of time, Thor was at 95 tons (No one cared enough to change it at the time), do you stand by this?

Make sure refrence the writer because it is important since some writers tend to go off the scale of things.

I love how dadudemon plays the "NOT MOVIE RELEVANT" shit, yet just before he was perfectly willing to say that Edward was stronger than their comic incarnations.

Why are you playing that card now that someone cared enough to put forward feats that prove you wrong dadudemon?

Edit - Ignore this sh*tpost.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus


Is this some kind of joke? You adhere to handbooks, at best a second hand non canon source and you dismiss on panel showings? This isn't Spider-Man beating Firelord. I'm sorry, but you don't get to throw out feats willy nilly because you don't like them.

You were discussing the comic versions of the character no? If so, it's relevant.









Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Thing lifts and tosses the Louvre Pyramid (Thousands and thousands of tons):
http://i.imagehost.org/view/0923/Fantastic_Four_v3_001-34
http://i.imagehost.org/view/0719/Fantastic_Four_v3_001-40

Thing would not have been able pick up the Louvre Pyramid. The flexing, alone, would have caused the glass to shatter and the supporting metal "skeleton" would have bent quite easily. His tiny hands on a large structure may also make it impossible to actually pick it up: the metal would just bend under the force of his hands.

Lastly, the Louvre Pyramid weighs 95 tons.

http://goparis.about.com/od/parismuseums/ss/louvre-museum-pictures.htm



Sh*t feat is still sh*t. This feat is closer to something I would accept, however, because it is much closer to his supposed strength.


Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Completely surpasses the force equilvant to crush a small mountain:
http://a.imagehost.org/view/0409/MarvelTwo-in-One077-02
http://a.imagehost.org/view/0998/MarvelTwo-in-One077-01

1. The pressure plates may not have reached maximum in force at that point as it was being gradually increased for safety reasons by Reed.

2. That's 1-ton a square inch.


That does not show us an actual strength feat because the context is left ambiguous.


Regardless, it is much easier to stand stationary and resist a force. That feat is more in line with durability (the ability to avoid having your bones/arms snap) than it is strength. Ben just went "full-power" before all forces were applied by the pressure plates. It speaks more to Ben's idiocy and bull-headedness than it does his actual strength.



Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
The fact that your entire argument revolves around doing math doesn't help you any. Characters of this nature aren't that feat heavy, but I'm sure you have no problem figuring out how much force it takes to send Hulk flying through a mountain etc.

You mean it doesn't help you any.



Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
My apologies, here you go:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/Sasplane1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/UncannyX-Men120b.jpg

Cool. I figured as much. Context was key. This was the Tanaraq version.


Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
If you're going to dismiss every showing I post because you don't like it then just tell me now so I wont waste my time. I can't show a person that they're wrong if they won't even accept the evidence.

No, not dismiss every showing.

Perhaps you didn't read (you didn't):




Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
That was Saquatch's first appearance, and yet it's PIS? Lol, wow.

Sasquatch pulls and lifts a destroyer nany ship (Has an average displacement of around 5,000 tonnes or higher):
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/Hulk_Annual_1979_008_11.jpg

Learn a little about Marvel before you start spouting off feats.

That was his Tanaraq form. Walter is not nearly as strong as he used to be because he is no longer linked to that Great Beast form.



Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Wait until you see Drax busting a planet, tearing a Star in half etc.

You want to throw out any showing that contradicts your opinion and yet my stance -accepting what happens on panel- is retarded? The irony.

You not only think handbooks are accurate, you believe writers pay them any heed? Haha.

No, I will throw out any feat that absurdly eclipses the characters decided upon power set...because...








Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Well I'm discussing purely the comic incarnations.

Then GTFO. No one is forcing you to stay here.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
If we can't do it here, let's continue this in the comic book section.


No thank you.

Here's why:



Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I'm not that knowledgeable on these particular characters so I'm certain there are a few high end feats that I've forgotten that will be posted. Can't wait until K-M sees that you don't think Sasquatch is class 100.

OOHH BOY! dur

Well, you've clearly shown your ignorance concerning Sasquatch. Guess you didn't know he was greatly depowered?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I guess my earlier question is answered. No matter how much evidence I post, if you won't be swayed, then I won't bother anymore.

You are correct. You question was already answered before you even posted. This is why you should read.


Lastly, I can always fall back on "This is the MvF."

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I'm curious how far your willing to take this adherence to handbooks. For a decent amount of time, Thor was at 95 tons (No one cared enough to change it at the time), do you stand by this?

YES!


Use the character iterations in your vs. matchups that YOU the thread starter want. This is done well and consistently in the CBVF. Do you not see it? I do.


This is the beauty of being the thread starter: set your thread conditions.




Originally posted by lilshogun
Make sure refrence the writer because it is important since some writers tend to go off the scale of things.






Originally posted by NemeBro
I love how dadudemon plays the "NOT MOVIE RELEVANT" shit, yet just before he was perfectly willing to say that Edward was stronger than their comic incarnations.

Why are you playing that card now that someone cared enough to put forward feats that prove you wrong dadudemon?


I apologize that you weren't paying attention to the beginning of our conversation but this is what I had stated from the very beginning when you brought it up.

I don't abide by the atrocious out of character feats that cause horrendous amounts of PIS in American Comic Books. This is also why I do not post very often in the Comic Book Versus Section: there's a sh*t ton of contradictions even from the same versions of characters.


Just to show that you're wrong about what I'm doing, please observe exhibit A:

Originally posted by dadudemon
Out of ability feats do not count!!!!!! RAAAGEEE!



As you can tell, I was joking but there is truth to my words. Therein lies my problems with many American Comic books. The problem stems from editors not forcing writers to have to re-write their sh*t when they go overboard. The problem is also writers who seem to have Alzheimer's when it comes to the established guidelines for character's abilities.

Funny how this turned from Werewolf vs Werewolf to how much better Edward is than the Underworld vampires.

So.....how do the Twilight wolves match up? I have no idea of their feats but considering they can keep up with the Twivamps then I guess they win? However since I've heard otherwise, I'm even more confused.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Funny how this turned from Werewolf vs Werewolf to how much better Edward is than the Underworld vampires.

So.....how do the Twilight wolves match up? I have no idea of their feats but considering they can keep up with the Twivamps then I guess they win? However since I've heard otherwise, I'm even more confused.

Good point. We should play tummy sticks.

Originally posted by dadudemon
]That was his Tanaraq form. Walter is not nearly as strong as he used to be because he is no longer linked to that Great Beast form.

No it wasn't, it's the same body Walter has now. True Tanaraq is 100 feet tall and traped ina giant cage in the Realm of the Beasts. All Walter is and has been is an avatar for his soul to cross over not his true body. They explained that in Alpha Flight #1 when Tundra, another Great Beast used a human host like Tanaraq did to Walter. Tundra "Crossed" over, but was merely an earthly manifestation. He used a connection to a human host to cross over due to a link...which Walter still has

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c365/A_Flight4/AlphaFlight24-19.jpg

Originally posted by dadudemon
]
Learn a little about Marvel before you start spouting off feats.

That was his Tanaraq form. Walter is not nearly as strong as he used to be because he is no longer linked to that Great Beast form..

Oh my, so wrong. It was shown in Alpha Flight vol.1 and Omega Flight he still has that connection. Heck in Alpha Flight vol.1 Snowbird was possessed by Tanaraq as she merely took Sasquatch form...and that is the same body Walter has right now.

So no your wrong he is STILL linked and is stated as such.

Originally posted by dadudemon
]
OOHH BOY! dur

Well, you've clearly shown your ignorance concerning Sasquatch. Guess you didn't know he was greatly depowered?

No he wasn't nor was that ever said or stated anywhere. They even recently said his base form is class 90, but has the ability to tap more into Tanaraq's power adding to his strength granting him class 100 strength.

Don't claim someone is ignorant, when you are in fact wrong

Originally posted by dadudemon
No, his best feat is uprooting a tree, in the mountains, in the frozen ground, by applying a transverse force to the tree. It's 5 times harder, on average, to uproot a tree that direction. FYI.


Was it similar to something like this (sans angle)? I havent seen the instance your talking about but that's hardly special

1. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/AlphaFlight020Page01.jpg
2. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/AlphaFlight020Page02-03.jpg
3. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/AlphaFlight020Page04.jpg
4. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/AlphaFlight020Page05.jpg

Edit: Is this the tree?

http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l31lpqTfRH1qzmlgro1_500.png

wait did someone just say KM knows nothing about members of AF.

That is too good

Originally posted by -K-M-
Was it similar to something like this (sans angle)? I havent seen the instance your talking about but that's hardly special

1. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/AlphaFlight020Page01.jpg
2. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/AlphaFlight020Page02-03.jpg
3. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/AlphaFlight020Page04.jpg
4. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/AlphaFlight020Page05.jpg

Edit: Is this the tree?

http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l31lpqTfRH1qzmlgro1_500.png


trees beware!

Originally posted by Newjak
wait did someone just say KM knows nothing about members of AF.

That is too good

No he was talking to Rage, I saw the post and corrected him.

He did however say Edward Cullen is far stronger then Thing, Sasquatch and Colossus because he pushed over a tree in the winter.

..... Wait, daudemon, THAT is the tree you are talking about?

Where is this "one meter in diameter" shit coming from?

I actually found your post by the way, but too busy to really address it. Maybe later.

There may be another scene he is refering to, so don't base it off of that image I posted.

I would watch the video from the original post, but it was taken down by the user so I don't have anything else to go off of.

Regardless of the tree, there is no reason we merely accept his highest strength feat and then discredit the others superior feats. Unless he is constantly doing class 100 feats (not even sure if the tree incident is, have to see it for myself) you can't merely discredit when other people show more frequent superior strength feats....that's just asinine

The tree walter ripped from the ground was indeed greater then 1 meter though. In his Sasquatch form Walter is 10 feet tall and 2000lbs, yet he still looks tiny compared to that tree.

dadudemon's point is that it requires 60 kilonewtons (At most, I should say, based on his source) to vertically pull a stump out with the roots using a machine (Forget the type). It is apparently five times more difficult to do so horizontally. 60 kilonewtons is more or less the equivelant to 60 tons of force, multiplied by five that is 300 tons of force.

Which... Isn't actually even on par with what handbooks say about Colossus, is it?

Like I said I have to see the actual instance he is talking about, but it all becomes subjective as you don't know the soil type or even the density of the tree (insect harvested, decaying matter, etc.) so all becomes hearsay. Regardless you can't discredit superior feats because...well...he doesn't like it. Correct me if I'm wrong isnt the 60N from removing of a stump rather then the whole tree?

In the handbooks Colossus is listed as class 100, which means he can lift in excess of 100 tons. When he was a teenager he was listed at only 70 tons.

Hopefully he can find the video, or confirm that is the alleged tree.

I should point out that that is how much force Edward can exert, not how much he can necessarily lift. Colossus' punch would be a good deal greater than what he can press over his head.

Edit: Yes, the 60 kilonewtons is from removing the stump, not the whole tree, but Edward's tree, if that is it, looks less thick than those stumps, and he only pushed it over, he wouldn't have to uproot it so much as push it until its weight can uproot itself, and frankly if that is it Edward would have much better leverage than one would with a stump.

From this report they said:
"No stump required more than 60 kN crane force and functions for maximum force requirements indicate that powerful harvesters and forwarders (gross crane lifting capacity of 273 and 155 kNm, respectively) should be able to uproot all stumps with <61 cm (0.61 m)and >32 cm (0.32) diameter". Diameter all less then 1 meter

"Hence, a 35 cm (0.3 meters) pine stump should require a vertical force of 84 kN"

"However, in a review from the 1960s Czereyski et al. (1965) refer to findings that mature (5-25 years after felling) 20-35 cm diameter pine stumps require uprooting forces of 15-150 kN, and based on a study on 150 Scots pine (Pinus sylvestris) stumps in sandy soil, Horváth-Szováti and Czupy (2005) concluded that the force required was dependent on the stump diameter

http://www.metla.fi/silvafennica/full/sf44/sf444681.pdf

These numbes are just from stumps not including the entire tree. So I would really like to see this video and the math behind all this

I should also point out that that is the force required to pull the stumps out whole, which is more difficult than doing so while breaking shit.

... Also, wow, you are far less lazy than me my friend, finding that and posting it.

Originally posted by -K-M-
No it wasn't, it's the same body Walter has now. True Tanaraq is 100 feet tall and traped ina giant cage in the Realm of the Beasts. All Walter is and has been is an avatar for his soul to cross over not his true body. They explained that in Alpha Flight #1 when Tundra, another Great Beast used a human host like Tanaraq did to Walter. Tundra "Crossed" over, but was merely an earthly manifestation. He used a connection to a human host to cross over due to a link...which Walter still has

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c365/A_Flight4/AlphaFlight24-19.jpg

No it wasn't. That was Walter's Tanaraq beast form. It has been that way for ages until recently.



Originally posted by -K-M-
Oh my, so wrong. It was shown in Alpha Flight vol.1 and Omega Flight he still has that connection. Heck in Alpha Flight vol.1 Snowbird was possessed by Tanaraq as she merely took Sasquatch form...and that is the same body Walter has right now.

So no your wrong he is STILL linked and is stated as such.

OMG, there's so much wrong with this.

No, current Sasquatch form is no the Big Beast Tanaraq form. Not True Tanaraq like you're trying to red herring the point.



Originally posted by -K-M-
No he wasn't nor was that ever said or stated anywhere. They even recently said his base form is class 90, but has the ability to tap more into Tanaraq's power adding to his strength granting him class 100 strength.

Yes he was. Prove that he's not greatly weakened from his Tanaraq form.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Don't claim someone is ignorant, when you are in fact wrong

Don't claim you are right when you are in fact wrong.


Originally posted by -K-M-
Edit: Is this the tree?

http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l31lpqTfRH1qzmlgro1_500.png

Let's go with this:

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z238/dadudemon/tree.jpg

Originally posted by -K-M-
No he was talking to Rage, I saw the post and corrected him.

You mean you flexed your ignorance?


Originally posted by -K-M-
Regardless of the tree, there is no reason we merely accept his highest strength feat and then discredit the others superior feats. Unless he is constantly doing class 100 feats (not even sure if the tree incident is, have to see it for myself) you can't merely discredit when other people show more frequent superior strength feats....that's just asinine

Actually, there is: place Edward into the PIS world of Marvel under the same inflation and we end up with stupid feats for Edward, as well. Keep them in character. It was stated numerous times that the vampires were stupid strong. At one point, cares are called "styrofoam" to the vampires. This is not even the new borns.

Edward's feat of tree pushing puts him into the hundreds of tons level. That's in character for him.

In character for Thing to exert forces far in excess of the 90-100 ton class? Nah.

Originally posted by -K-M-
The tree walter ripped from the ground was indeed greater then 1 meter though. In his Sasquatch form Walter is 10 feet tall and 2000lbs, yet he still looks tiny compared to that tree.

Tanaraq form. He's not even close to that strong, anymore. Thank you for playing.


Originally posted by NemeBro
dadudemon's point is that it requires 60 kilonewtons (At most, I should say, based on his source) to vertically pull a stump out with the roots using a machine (Forget the type). It is apparently five times more difficult to do so horizontally. 60 kilonewtons is more or less the equivelant to 60 tons of force, multiplied by five that is 300 tons of force.

Which... Isn't actually even on par with what handbooks say about Colossus, is it?

AHA! So you looked it up. Nice.


Originally posted by -K-M-
From this report they said:
"No stump required more than 60 kN crane force and functions for maximum force requirements indicate that powerful harvesters and forwarders (gross crane lifting capacity of 273 and 155 kNm, respectively) should be able to uproot all stumps with <61 cm (0.61 m)and >32 cm (0.32) diameter". Diameter all less then 1 meter

"Hence, a 35 cm (0.3 meters) pine stump should require a vertical force of 84 kN"

"However, in a review from the 1960s Czereyski et al. (1965) refer to findings that mature (5-25 years after felling) 20-35 cm diameter pine stumps require uprooting forces of 15-150 kN, and based on a study on 150 Scots pine (Pinus sylvestris) stumps in sandy soil, Horváth-Szováti and Czupy (2005) concluded that the force required was dependent on the stump diameter

http://www.metla.fi/silvafennica/full/sf44/sf444681.pdf

These numbes are just from stumps not including the entire tree. So I would really like to see this video and the math behind all this




"The studies reviewed in Biller
and Baumgras (1987) corroborates this hypothesis,
since at least five times more force is required
for laterally uprooting 25 cm stumps compared to
the mean values in this study. It seems, thus, that
stumps should preferably be uprooted vertically
to minimize force requirements."


Indeed. Now do you fellas believe me?


I believe the leverage arm mixed in with the 5 times information is where I got a nice conservative estimate of "hundreds of kN of froce" which you can translate into ton-force.

dadudemon, you are aware that we can't actually see the whole tree in that picture, right?

Once again what the **** does this have to do with werewolves? Unless they're ripping apart giant trees and stuff I'm not sure if Edward's feats are really relevant.

In fact what are the best feats from the TwiWolves anyhow?

I'm still waiting for someone to actually be truthful about AF, Sasquatch, and post Tanaraq death.

I'll also wait for those to be shown to have been in a movie, too.

Originally posted by NemeBro
dadudemon, you are aware that we can't actually see the whole tree in that picture, right?

So?

You claimed it was a meter in diameter.

I need to kind of see the entire width of the tree.

Hell, I'd like to see the video as well, since the one Aura posted no longer works.

Originally posted by NemeBro
You claimed it was a meter in diameter.

In that image, it is.



Originally posted by NemeBro
Hell, I'd like to see the video as well, since the one Aura posted no longer works.

Be my guest to look it up.

Stop being a jackass.

I looked up "Edward Cullen pushes over tree" on youtube and didn't get a satisfactory result. I don't know the context of the scene or even what movie it was in, and I don't own any of the Twilight movies.

Also, the picture that KM posted, is that the same tree, or is Edward for some reason some kind of anti-hippy who beats up trees?

That looks like the same tree from a bit away, and from zoomed up at a different angle.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Stop being a jackass.


I looked up "Edward Cullen pushes over tree" on youtube and didn't get a satisfactory result. I don't know the context of the scene or even what movie it was in, and I don't own any of the Twilight movies.

How about you stop? You can only pretend to be lazy for so long. Stop using it as a crutch. I found it in about 20 seconds. Wallow in your ignorance for all I care.




Originally posted by NemeBro
Also, the picture that KM posted, is that the same tree, or is Edward for some reason some kind of anti-hippy who beats up trees?

No, not the same tree. That looks like a pose picture. I just watched the clip and at no point does Edward look like that.

I took a second screen shot, for posterity, which shows edward side by side with the tree. Looks a bit smaller than a meter in diameter but not by much (I have a meter stick right here ) Robert is also taller than I am, sooo...I am using my own body as the measure.

Post the video or shut up.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Post the video or shut up.

Nope.



It has been posted multiple times already, in other threads. Cry about it as much as you want. I don't care.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Post the video or shut up.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Nope.



It has been posted multiple times already, in other threads. Cry about it as much as you want. I don't care.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Post the video or shut up.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Nope.



It has been posted multiple times already, in other threads. Cry about it as much as you want. I don't care.






Just so you know I'm not pulling your chain, here's a screen shot from the vid I just watched:

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z238/dadudemon/tree-1.png


Now cry more about how lazy you are.


Edit - Notice the fatness of the tree at the bottom. Notice how it is not nearly as "straight up and down" like the tree in the other screen shot provided?

Hey, you actually provided a better screenshot.

Why thank you.

See how easy this is when you just do as I say?

Originally posted by NemeBro
Hopefully he can find the video, or confirm that is the alleged tree.

Originally posted by NemeBro
I should point out that that is how much force Edward can exert, not how much he can necessarily lift. Colossus' punch would be a good deal greater than what he can press over his head.


Just saw this.

The answer is no, that's not how it works. Inertia and sustained forces are not the same thing.

If you punch a tree hard enough to knock it over with a fist, you're more likely to punch into the tree than knock it over.



Originally posted by NemeBro
Edit: Yes, the 60 kilonewtons is from removing the stump, not the whole tree, but Edward's tree, if that is it, looks less thick than those stumps, and he only pushed it over, he wouldn't have to uproot it so much as push it until its weight can uproot itself, and frankly if that is it Edward would have much better leverage than one would with a stump.


No. That's not how it would work. He would still have to exert, pretending the tree is alive, enough force to start the process. You're forgetting that fully grown, alive-tree, has more inertia than a stump. The initial force required to knock it over would be significantly greater than then force require to start the horizontal pull on a tree stump. Sure, it becomes easier as it starts to fall over but it is initially harder. I believe I explained this in the thread you viewed.

But you're also forgetting that Edward is about 4 feet up on the tree. He has leverage. But wait, there's more! The ground is also much stiffer and moist than the soil usually is around a tree stump. This tree is also alive. Denser soil, tougher soil, equates to many unknown forces.


I figure it doesn't matter since we know it's somewhere in the hundreds of kN of force. So I'll stick with 300 kN of force. I did start to work on the leverage the 4 foot (a bit more than 1 meter) pushing would provide but I don't think it did much for me, iirc.


Originally posted by NemeBro
Hey, you actually provided a better screenshot.

Why thank you.

See how easy this is when you just do as I say?

You never asked me to provide a better screen shot.

Originally posted by dadudemon
No it wasn't. That was Walter's Tanaraq beast form. It has been that way for ages until recently.

No it wasn't, it was even resolved way back in Alpha Flight volume one when Tanaraq even took over Snowbird

This was also explained when Tundra took over the human host which they explained was like Walter and Tanaraq. Your arguing on-panel statements now?

Originally posted by dadudemon

OMG, there's so much wrong with this.

No, current Sasquatch form is no the Big Beast Tanaraq form. Not True Tanaraq like you're trying to red herring the point..

Except it is stated as such and in Omega Flight Tanaraq actually possessed Walter, and in Vol.1 he possessed Snowbird on more then one occasion and that is the body he is currently using. So no...your wrong. This is even varified in the recent handbook which you love so much.

This is fact.

Originally posted by dadudemon

Yes he was. Prove that he's not greatly weakened from his Tanaraq form

Sure in the body he currently is using now is the thing that destroyed his old body. Not only has it been stated it's his EXACT same body, and the fact Tanaraq has since taken over the same body. More examples, Box v2 which could press 85 tons it was stated it wasn't even HALF the strength of Sasquatch and that was during his time when he was Wanda (white Sasquatch), Walter also punched a hole in the trans-displacement dimension, went shot for shot with Hercules and Thor was none the worse for wear, 616 Sasquatch also beat an alternate reality Savage Hulk, one-shotted Mr.Hyde, Vision was phasing inside his body attacking his organs and he was shocked that Walter was healing his organs in seconds, one-shotted She Hulk with a claw swipe, then in the recent Alpha Flight series he caught and redirect a boat that was thrown by a tidalwave. Shall I continue?

His current body DESTROYED his old one, yet your claiming it's weaker? Lulz!

Originally posted by dadudemon

Don't claim you are right when you are in fact wrong.

Comics and handbooks say otherwise

Originally posted by dadudemon

You mean you flexed your ignorance?

Nice attempt at deflection, but as shown you dont know what your talking about

Originally posted by dadudemon
Actually, there is: place Edward into the PIS world of Marvel under the same inflation and we end up with stupid feats for Edward, as well. Keep them in character. It was stated numerous times that the vampires were stupid strong. At one point, cares are called "styrofoam" to the vampires. This is not even the new borns.

Edward's feat of tree pushing puts him into the hundreds of tons level. That's in character for him.

In character for Thing to exert forces far in excess of the 90-100 ton class? Nah.

and the characters you say Edward is stronger then have been said the same thing and have far more impressive feats then that yet your don't credit them as they hurt your case? Lulz

Not really, because following your logic that is an outlier so it's ignored as your ignoring the other's feats of strengths. Love to see some more class 100 feats from vampires. Have anymore? If you don't...well...there goes your example

haha suuuuure

Based on what?


Originally posted by dadudemon

Tanaraq form. He's not even close to that strong, anymore. Thank you for playing.

Wrong again, and that was even before the time he was really losing himself to Tanaraq nor did he even know about Tanaraq at the time. I love the fact you never actually countered my points, yet you still claim you know what your talking about? hmmm....

Originally posted by -K-M-
No it wasn't, it was even resolved way back in Alpha Flight volume one when Tanaraq even took over Snowbird

This was also explained when Tundra took over the human host which they explained was like Walter and Tanaraq. Your arguing on-panel statements now?

???

No, what I said.



Originally posted by -K-M-
Except it is stated as such and in Omega Flight Tanaraq actually possessed Walter, and in Vol.1 he possessed Snowbird on more then one occasion and that is the body he is currently using. So no...your wrong. This is even varified in the recent handbook which you love so much.

This is fact.

You're not even arguing against what I said. Everything you just typed is irrelevant to my point.

Here: Tanaraq was killed.

Move from there.


Originally posted by -K-M-
Shall I continue?

YES, continue! This is what you're not getting.


Because he has strained with forces much smaller than 20 tons indicating that his limits are wildly fluctuating.


Give me something movies to go by, however.


Originally posted by -K-M-
Comics and handbooks say otherwise

Okay, I can do that too:

I reject out of character feats and Sasquatch is less than 100 ton class with no limit actually known. Writers just write whatever they want. I'm going with the less than 20 ton version.



Originally posted by -K-M-
Nice attempt at deflection, but as shown you dont know what your talking about

Seems like what you're doing. You "buddies" called you from the CBVF because they couldn't handle it. Now you've derailed the thread because you're made that you will never convince a person that has already stated he rejects ON PANEL evidence.



Originally posted by -K-M-
and the characters you say Edward is stronger then have been said the same thing and have far more impressive feats then that yet your don't credit them as they hurt your case? Lulz

Not really, because following your logic that is an outlier so it's ignored as your ignoring the other's feats of strengths.

haha suuuuure

Based on what?


Wrong: it's not an outlier. It is a low-end feat. One of his best feats, imo, is deflecting a van with just his hand as though it were made entirely of paper. We as humans can't even do that with a small rubber ball (we aren't strong enough to show no "force" upon our hand if a rubber ball is thrown at it).

That would be the outlier. There is no way to objectively determine how strong Edward is. We have a general idea that they 100 ton class and the stronger ones are just simply stronger than the others.


However, the feats of sasquatch post Tanaraq death are much more "wild" and it is much more difficult to determine his strength. I stick with a sub-20 ton version because I don't like the wildly fluctuating feats that are used by false character opposition plot devices. I have stated this, in other terms, since Nemebro first asked me about it. I have not minced words, I have not hidden my bias or agenda, or anything.

Since Edward would not play around, he'd destroy Sasquatch in less than a second.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Wrong again, and that was even before the time he was really losing himself to Tanaraq nor did he even know about Tanaraq at the time. I love the fact you never actually countered my points, yet you still claim you know what your talking about? hmmm....

Again, you're wrong. What I said:

"Tanaraq form. He's not even close to that strong, anymore. Thank you for playing."

Just because he was not aware he was channeling Tanaraq, does not mean he wasn't. That's a very silly counter argument. I like how you don't really respond to what I'm saying.

Unless you want to take it to PMs, I will not discuss this topic anymore. We have taken the thread waaaaaay too off topic.

You don't even need to reply to my above post, just this....where is this class 20 Sasquatch coming from?

Figures it was just posturing.

Gotta love preconceived notions and immaturity.

Admit you're wrong? Never! Continue on arguing despite looking ignorant and foolish to avoid learning? Definitely.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Thing would not have been able pick up the Louvre Pyramid. The flexing, alone, would have caused the glass to shatter and the supporting metal "skeleton" would have bent quite easily. His tiny hands on a large structure may also make it impossible to actually pick it up: the metal would just bend under the force of his hands.

Lastly, the Louvre Pyramid weighs 95 tons.

http://goparis.about.com/od/parismuseums/ss/louvre-museum-pictures.htm

Sh*t feat is still sh*t. This feat is closer to something I would accept, however, because it is much closer to his supposed strength.

It's fiction, most characters picking up large structures shouldn't work but it does. Part of the suspension of disbelief.That's my bad, I clicked on the first link on google. I'm not often lazy when in a discussion, won't happen again.

How do you figure? According to the handbooks, 95 tons is above his limit. Here he effortlessly lifts and tosses a 95 ton object.

And here he easily swings around Cleopatra's needle (Nearly 200 tons as far as I can tell):
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/Ironboy/The%20Thing/FantasticFour112-08.jpg

Rips out a tower and sends an object over the horizon:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/Ironboy/The%20Thing/fantasticfour16-21.jpg

Originally posted by dadudemon
1. The pressure plates may not have reached maximum in force at that point as it was being gradually increased for safety reasons by Reed.

2. That's 1-ton a square inch.


That does not show us an actual strength feat because the context is left ambiguous.

Regardless, it is much easier to stand stationary and resist a force. That feat is more in line with durability (the ability to avoid having your bones/arms snap) than it is strength. Ben just went "full-power" before all forces were applied by the pressure plates. It speaks more to Ben's idiocy and bull-headedness than it does his actual strength.

The narration clearly states that the device was exerting enough force to shatter a mountain. It wasn't a level it was going to reach, it was a level it had reached. Not really sure what you find confusing there.

It's part durability but strength was clearly intended to play a large part in it.

Originally posted by dadudemon
You mean it doesn't help you any.

Not really.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Cool. I figured as much. Context was key. This was the Tanaraq version.

Context? Tanaraq version? Walter was no stronger here than at any other point in his history.

Originally posted by dadudemon
No, not dismiss every showing.

Perhaps you didn't read (you didn't):

I get it, you only dismiss the ones you don't like.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Learn a little about Marvel before you start spouting off feats.

That was his Tanaraq form. Walter is not nearly as strong as he used to be because he is no longer linked to that Great Beast form.

Did you just tell me to learn a little about Marvel? Haha. Can we please move this discussion over to the comic vs. section? I don't want any off topic nonsense getting in the way.

Yes, I realize that Walter has been able to grow stronger over the years as he loses more control but Walter was no stronger there than at any other point in his history. Yes he is.

Originally posted by dadudemon
No, I will throw out any feat that absurdly eclipses the characters decided upon power set...because...

Drax fights Thanos and destroys a planet:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/drax/draxthanosplanetbust.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/drax/draxthanosplanetbust1.jpg

Destroys another planet:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/drax/draxplanetbusting.jpg

Rips apart a planet and a Star:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/drax/draxstarbusting.jpg

Decided powersets according to whom? The handbooks? Like I said before, those are extremely flawed sources for power stats.

One should place characters based on their average performance seen in comic books. Every character has good and bad days but it's possible to find a level where they generally operate.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Then GTFO. No one is forcing you to stay here.

I would but I can't help myself after reading such ignorant posts.

Originally posted by dadudemon
No thank you.

Here's why:

Yes, I'm sure that's the only reason why. Personally, I want to make sure our discussion isn't interrupted at any point and it wouldn't in the vs. forum. I also don't want shitty excuses like "wrong forum" thrown around if you dislike the way the conversation is turning.

Originally posted by dadudemon
OOHH BOY! dur

Well, you've clearly shown your ignorance concerning Sasquatch. Guess you didn't know he was greatly depowered?

Are you like a dog with a bone?

Originally posted by dadudemon
You are correct. You question was already answered before you even posted. This is why you should read.

So you'll ignore any evidence that doesn't fit into the limits set by handbooks? Is there any actual reason for this or is it just because?

Originally posted by dadudemon
Lastly, I can always fall back on "This is the MvF."

Coward.

Originally posted by dadudemon
YES!

Are you joking or being serious? I cannot tell but I really hope you aren't. Thor is my area of expertise and handbooks have been oh so terribly incorrect about him as well as Odin.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Use the character iterations in your vs. matchups that YOU the thread starter want. This is done well and consistently in the CBVF. Do you not see it? I do.

This is the beauty of being the thread starter: set your thread conditions.

I don't even know what the hell you're talking about here.

Originally posted by dadudemon
As you can tell, I was joking but there is truth to my words. Therein lies my problems with many American Comic books. The problem stems from editors not forcing writers to have to re-write their sh*t when they go overboard. The problem is also writers who seem to have Alzheimer's when it comes to the established guidelines for character's abilities.

No one is forcing you to read them.

I won't however sit here while you making such incredibly ignorant statements regarding characters and how the medium works.

And since I know how much you love trees:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/Ironboy/The%20Thing/FantasticFour112-06.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/Ironboy/The%20Thing/FantasticFour112-07.jpg

Trees are beautiful animals.

Don't you mean animals are beautiful trees?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
It's fiction, most characters picking up large structures shouldn't work but it does. Part of the suspension of disbelief.That's my bad, I clicked on the first link on google. I'm not often lazy when in a discussion, won't happen again.

How do you figure? According to the handbooks, 95 tons is above his limit. Here he effortlessly lifts and tosses a 95 ton object.

And here he easily swings around Cleopatra's needle (Nearly 200 tons as far as I can tell):
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/Ironboy/The%20Thing/FantasticFour112-08.jpg

Rips out a tower and sends an object over the horizon:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/Ironboy/The%20Thing/fantasticfour16-21.jpg



The narration clearly states that the device was exerting enough force to shatter a mountain. It wasn't a level it was going to reach, it was a level it had reached. Not really sure what you find confusing there.

It's part durability but strength was clearly intended to play a large part in it.



Not really.



Context? Tanaraq version? Walter was no stronger here than at any other point in his history.



I get it, you only dismiss the ones you don't like.



Did you just tell me to learn a little about Marvel? Haha. Can we please move this discussion over to the comic vs. section? I don't want any off topic nonsense getting in the way.

Yes, I realize that Walter has been able to grow stronger over the years as he loses more control but Walter was no stronger there than at any other point in his history. Yes he is.



Drax fights Thanos and destroys a planet:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/drax/draxthanosplanetbust.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/drax/draxthanosplanetbust1.jpg

Destroys another planet:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/drax/draxplanetbusting.jpg

Rips apart a planet and a Star:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/drax/draxstarbusting.jpg

Decided powersets according to whom? The handbooks? Like I said before, those are extremely flawed sources for power stats.

One should place characters based on their average performance seen in comic books. Every character has good and bad days but it's possible to find a level where they generally operate.



I would but I can't help myself after reading such ignorant posts.



Yes, I'm sure that's the only reason why. Personally, I want to make sure our discussion isn't interrupted at any point and it wouldn't in the vs. forum. I also don't want shitty excuses like "wrong forum" thrown around if you dislike the way the conversation is turning.



Are you like a dog with a bone?



So you'll ignore any evidence that doesn't fit into the limits set by handbooks? Is there any actual reason for this or is it just because?



Coward.



Are you joking or being serious? I cannot tell but I really hope you aren't. Thor is my area of expertise and handbooks have been oh so terribly incorrect about him as well as Odin.



I don't even know what the hell you're talking about here.



No one is forcing you to read them.

I won't however sit here while you making such incredibly ignorant statements regarding characters and how the medium works.


GTFO with that sh*t. Go back to the CBVF.

Edward can kick Sasquatch's ass. Deal with it and stop whining.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I won't however sit here while you making such incredibly ignorant statements regarding characters and how the medium works.

No, you'll just sit there and have to deal with someone stating their opinion. And you'll either like it or ignore it.

Thing is weaker than Edward. Deal with it. The handbooks are better than the actual comic books. Deal with it.

Oh, and, Thor is weaker than Thing at times. You going to rage at me about that, too?


Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Gotta love preconceived notions and immaturity.

Admit you're wrong? Never! Continue on arguing despite looking ignorant and foolish to avoid learning? Definitely.

Coming from the guy throwing out insults left and right. lol

Additionally, you came into this thread knowing full well that I said I IGNORE feats I don't like. Looks like you were just steaming to argue for no reason. Lame.



Edit - It is taking a lot to resist replying to your wrong points. pained So...very...hard.... pained

What the hell is even being argued here? Whether Edward is stronger than the Thing from the comics? No effing shit he ain't. The hell?

dadudemon is employing IDLI, IDH Neph.

I Didn't Like It, I Didn't Hear?

Originally posted by NemeBro
dadudemon is employing IDLI, IDH Neph.

Since your very first WTF post, to be exact.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I Didn't Like It, I Didn't Hear? "I don't like it, it didn't happen."

Originally posted by dadudemon
GTFO with that sh*t. Go back to the CBVF.

Edward can kick Sasquatch's ass. Deal with it and stop whining.

Whining? I'm systematically destroying all your incredibly incorrect claims, the only one who seems to be whining here is you.

The only one here who has problems dealing with shit is once again (Surprise!) you.

Originally posted by dadudemon
No, you'll just sit there and have to deal with someone stating their opinion. And you'll either like it or ignore it.

Thing is weaker than Edward. Deal with it. The handbooks are better than the actual comic books. Deal with it.

Oh, and, Thor is weaker than Thing at times. You going to rage at me about that, too?

Well, you can think whatever you want. The vast majority -writers and editors of the comics/handbooks included- would agree with my stance and I've thoroughly proved you wrong so I'm content.



Originally posted by dadudemon
Coming from the guy throwing out insults left and right. lol

Additionally, you came into this thread knowing full well that I said I IGNORE feats I don't like. Looks like you were just steaming to argue for no reason. Lame.

Edit - It is taking a lot to resist replying to your wrong points. pained So...very...hard.... pained

I called you an idiot once, and all things considered it was a fairly accurate assessment. My point still stands, you are either a sorry excuse for a troll or a 10 year old.

Unfortunately I was well into the discussion before I discovered how far you'd go to maintain your ignorant stance.

It feels like I just got into an argument with a creationist. Ignorance is one thing, but willful ignorance? Few things irritate me as much, I've actually exercised considerable restraint in this particular discussion.

That's right, run away with your tail between your legs.