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http://i937.photobucket.com/albums/ad214/prepman005/Superman-AlRio.jpg
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vs

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/77/461866-thor_beta_ray_bill_doug_braithwaite01_large.jpg

Team 1.

Team 1.

^

Didn't Captain Marvel die from a mega bomb, which was powerful enough to destroy a continent or something and Superman really had a hard time dealing with Cap's magic? Not the greatest showcase of durability, but it's been too long since I've read Kingdom Come, so I'm not sure about the exact circumstances.

he died because e transformed back to billy while shouting shazam....clark pretty mch tanked it

Originally posted by Sin I AM
he died because e transformed back to billy while shouting shazam....clark pretty mch tanked it clark was far from the explosion though

It's true, if Superman and Billy had taken the explosion at ground zero or whatever, there was a very real possibility that they could perish (At least that's the vibe I remember getting) but not all writers think elites should be casually smashing planets etc. It shouldn't be held against them imo.

I think Team 1 is physically superior to Team 2 (Unless Thor goes Warrior Madness or some unlikely shit) but the hammer brothers aren't limited to their physical strength. They're overall more powerful and versatile which balances things out. Could go either way, mostly depends on how Team 2 decides to play it.

I'm of course assuming that Kingdom Come Superman's showing in the mainstream DC counts as a bench mark.

Team 2 wins, with ease.

KC superman is more powerful than mainstream superman

team 1 easily

Edge to team 1 imo

Originally posted by Sin I AM
he died because e transformed back to billy while shouting shazam....clark pretty mch tanked it

Are you sure about that? I remember a hugeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee discussion about that and I was always saying that he did not transform back.

Not even one panel shown him actually transforming back.

I understand your logic behind it, since he yelled it three times, starting off as Captain Marvel > 1. Billy > 2. Captain Marvel > 3. Billy, but it was shown in the past more then once, that they don't transform back, if the lightning hits something different at first, but all of these lightnings were hitting the bomb, trying to penetrate the bombs force field and then the third lightning hit the bomb and the bomb went off.
Now you could say that the third lightning not only hit the bomb, but also Billy, since it went through the bomb, but I simply don't know.

He was there when the bomb took off and the last panel shown him as Captain Marvel before the explosion.
When the bomb went off it took the combined efforts of Green Lanterns and others to create a force field and protect a bunch of heroes from the explosion.
Superman proved once again, that he has a serious durability, since he was not under the force field, but took the bombs blast from far away, while it destroyed all of the other heroes and villains who were not under the super-force field.
But Superman got hurt by Captain Marvels lightning. Having bloody eyes and bleeding out of his ears, while kneeling down. It really did some heavy damage to him, so he didn't really easily shrug it off, and I feel that Thor and Beta Ray Bill would be able to harm him with their magic as well.

I'm not saying that Team Marvel wins, but I would say that it wouldn't be that easy for Team DC to win.

KC > Mainstream

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
KC > Mainstream

Well I would give a slight edge to the mainstream team 1. Really not sure how much more powerful this version is. Proof/feats??

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Well I would give a slight edge to the mainstream team 1. Really not sure how much more powerful this version is. Proof/feats??

I was personally never imperssed by KC Superman. There was some weird guy on Comicvine, who was basically only reading Kingdom Come and saw few scans of other comic book appearances and he was sooooooooo impressed by that Superman version, even though it was just weird.

His arguments:

1. KC Superman kicked Gog's magic back to him ... yet he had some real problems with Captain Marvel's magic, who got killed by a continent busting bomb.

2. He took Hercules' punch without even flinching, while the regular Superman had nose-bleed after Hercules punched him ... yet KC Superman was expecting the punch, while Superman got caught off guard.

3. He broke free from Justice League's grip and flew away, leaving them no chance to follow him ...yet the the Justice League rosters were bobs with Power Girl as the strongest person who was trying to restrain him. Additionally some guy tried to increase Superman's gravity by 100 or something, which is still pathetic. Then KC Superman flew away with sonicboom speed.

4. KC Superman had 10 years of solar radiation absorbtion ... yeah, good for him.

5. KC Superman had sex with Wonder Woman ... I wouldn't be proud, because of that.

These were basically the feats everyone always posted on Comicvine. I would be glad if the people here know more feats, because everything I saw about KC Superman there wasn't impressive at all.
I personally don't know much about KC Superman, since my knowledge is basically limited on the Kingdom Come arc.

Originally posted by Enzeru
Are you sure about that? I remember a hugeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee discussion about that and I was always saying that he did not transform back.

Not even one panel shown him actually transforming back.

I understand your logic behind it, since he yelled it three times, starting off as Captain Marvel > 1. Billy > 2. Captain Marvel > 3. Billy, but it was shown in the past more then once, that they don't transform back, if the lightning hits something different at first, but all of these lightnings were hitting the bomb, trying to penetrate the bombs force field and then the third lightning hit the bomb and the bomb went off.
Now you could say that the third lightning not only hit the bomb, but also Billy, since it went through the bomb, but I simply don't know.

He was there when the bomb took off and the last panel shown him as Captain Marvel before the explosion.
When the bomb went off it took the combined efforts of Green Lanterns and others to create a force field and protect a bunch of heroes from the explosion.
Superman proved once again, that he has a serious durability, since he was not under the force field, but took the bombs blast from far away, while it destroyed all of the other heroes and villains who were not under the super-force field.
But Superman got hurt by Captain Marvels lightning. Having bloody eyes and bleeding out of his ears, while kneeling down. It really did some heavy damage to him, so he didn't really easily shrug it off, and I feel that Thor and Beta Ray Bill would be able to harm him with their magic as well.

I'm not saying that Team Marvel wins, but I would say that it wouldn't be that easy for Team DC to win.


im not reading all this. I read the comic, he reverted back, unless you have an article from where Alex Ross states otherwise your not going to convince me with conjecture.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
im not reading all this. I read the comic, he reverted back

People like you are making me so angry.
What's the problem with reading stuff? Do you don't have enough free time? What's the point in being on a forum in the first place? You're wasting time every single time you login in, look through the threads, read and response.

It will not help you out in the future at all. Why don't you leave this place and use the time to learn a new language or something?

My freakin' something ...

And he did not revert back. It was never shown and it should be a well known fact, that Marvel's do not revert back, if the lightning hits something else and in his case the lightning clearly hit the bomb and not him. Period.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Well I would give a slight edge to the mainstream team 1. Really not sure how much more powerful this version is. Proof/feats?? Is was obvious he was more powerful when they had hercules busted supermans knose with an elbow and knocked him into building, then he kc superman completly no sold the attack and proceede to one shot him

Ok, I'm looking at the scan right now and all I see is Billy saying Shazam 3 times in a row and the next page there is a massive mushroom cloud with lightning all around it.

So I don't see how one can make an argument either way but given the characters' histories, I find it very unlikely that Superman would weather the detonation and not Captain Marvel if Captain Marvel was still himself and didn't revert to Billy.

Originally posted by Mr.Mxyzptlk
I find it very unlikely that Superman would weather the detonation and not Captain Marvel if Captain Marvel was still himself and didn't revert to Billy.

Captain Marvel was at the core of the explosion, many, many, many foot up in the sky. The took all of it, maybe even shielded a good amount of it with his body, but it was still more then enough to kill all the heroes besides Superman with the blast wave, BUT ... if I remember correctly, then it was a bomb with the potential to destroy an entire continent, yet the entire ground was perfectly fine, since the bomb didn't go off while being on it, but in the miles and miles and miles in the air.

KC team takes it 9/10. Even mainstream Supes and Cap would take the majority.

Originally posted by Enzeru
Captain Marvel was at the core of the explosion, many, many, many foot up in the sky. The took all of it, maybe even shielded a good amount of it with his body, but it was still more then enough to kill all the heroes besides Superman with the blast wave, BUT ... if I remember correctly, then it was a bomb with the potential to destroy an entire continent, yet the entire ground was perfectly fine, since the bomb didn't go off while being on it, but in the miles and miles and miles in the air.

But Captain Marvel has better durability than Superman most of the time.

Originally posted by Enzeru
2. He took Hercules' punch without even flinching, while the regular Superman had nose-bleed after Hercules punched him ... yet KC Superman was expecting the punch, while Superman got caught off guard.

Still.. Not even flinching from a punch from Hercules seems pretty powerful.

Originally posted by Enzeru
4. KC Superman had 10 years of solar radiation absorbtion ... yeah, good for him.

Well thats bound to make him more powerful. Although without feats to show its not a very quantifiable amp.

Originally posted by Enzeru
5. KC Superman had sex with Wonder Woman ... I wouldn't be proud, because of that.



I would be

Originally posted by Mr.Mxyzptlk
given the characters' histories, I find it very unlikely that Superman would weather the detonation and not Captain Marvel if Captain Marvel was still himself and didn't revert to Billy.


my sentiments exactly

Considering Ross, through statements, portrayals, and his own personal interviews (which I know don't equal feats/on panel evidence) had beat it into the reader that Cap was at the very least Superman's equal, it's pretty obvious it was intended for Billy to be destroyed by the bomb in spite of Cap's cape being left behind.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Well I would give a slight edge to the mainstream team 1. Really not sure how much more powerful this version is. Proof/feats?? http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/7271/55238937.th.jpg http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/6756/74816800.th.jpg

Mainstream Supes is sonned by a punch from Hercules. KC Supes is literally unfazed by a punch to the jaw from Herc moments later--then proceeds to own him like a weak feeb.

The difference in strength between them was all but spelled out for us.

Originally posted by Galan007
http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/7271/55238937.th.jpg http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/6756/74816800.th.jpg

Mainstream Supes is sonned by a punch from Hercules. KC Supes is literally unfazed by a punch from Herc moments later, then proceeds to own him like a weak feeb.

The difference in strength between them was all but spelled out for us.

He also hears with ease a would be suicide victim better than mainstream Clark, iirc.

Being point blank in an explosion is MUCH different than being on the outskirts.

Even if he was still CM (it seems like he was, I'm not sure the final lightning strike reached him after it destroyed the force field), it wouldn't matter.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
He also hears with ease a would be suicide victim better than mainstream Clark, iirc. It was actually Hercules that KC Supes heard, but yeah, you're right. Tbh most of his displayed abilities (namely strength, durability, and accessory powers--ie. super-hearing and HV) seemed greater than those of mainstream Superman.

Awesome character.

Originally posted by Enzeru
Are you sure about that? I remember a hugeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee discussion about that and I was always saying that he did not transform back.

Not even one panel shown him actually transforming back.

I understand your logic behind it, since he yelled it three times, starting off as Captain Marvel > 1. Billy > 2. Captain Marvel > 3. Billy, but it was shown in the past more then once, that they don't transform back, if the lightning hits something different at first, but all of these lightnings were hitting the bomb, trying to penetrate the bombs force field and then the third lightning hit the bomb and the bomb went off.
Now you could say that the third lightning not only hit the bomb, but also Billy, since it went through the bomb, but I simply don't know.

He was there when the bomb took off and the last panel shown him as Captain Marvel before the explosion.
When the bomb went off it took the combined efforts of Green Lanterns and others to create a force field and protect a bunch of heroes from the explosion.
Superman proved once again, that he has a serious durability, since he was not under the force field, but took the bombs blast from far away, while it destroyed all of the other heroes and villains who were not under the super-force field.
But Superman got hurt by Captain Marvels lightning. Having bloody eyes and bleeding out of his ears, while kneeling down. It really did some heavy damage to him, so he didn't really easily shrug it off, and I feel that Thor and Beta Ray Bill would be able to harm him with their magic as well.

I'm not saying that Team Marvel wins, but I would say that it wouldn't be that easy for Team DC to win. three counts of shazam starting as Captain Marvel. No doubt he was billy at the time.

Originally posted by Enzeru
People like you are making me so angry.
What's the problem with reading stuff? Do you don't have enough free time? What's the point in being on a forum in the first place? You're wasting time every single time you login in, look through the threads, read and response.

It will not help you out in the future at all. Why don't you leave this place and use the time to learn a new language or something?

My freakin' something ...

And he did not revert back. It was never shown and it should be a well known fact, that Marvel's do not revert back, if the lightning hits something else and in his case the lightning clearly hit the bomb and not him. Period.

I believe the authors intent was to keep us guessing on that. I believe the authors intent was to have billy killed soe we end up guessing forever. He said shazam 3 times which would have reverted him back to billy provided the lighting hit him. The lighting hit the bomb in which marvel was in contact with. i believe the lighting hit the both of them. The bomb and marvel.

Originally posted by Enzeru

And he did not revert back. It was never shown and it should be a well known fact, that Marvel's do not revert back, if the lightning hits something else and in his case the lightning clearly hit the bomb and not him. Period.

If you read Kingdom Come yourself, you'd know Captain Marvel was using his super speed to avoid being hit by the lightning he was calling down on Superman.

There's also examples of mainstream Cap transforming into Billy when used as a weapon, like in the Legends crossover. Even in the pre crisis era, Adam had to use his super speed to avoid his lightning when he used it to force Caps transformation into Billy, and Cap needed to do the same when he planned on using it as a weapon against Superman.