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Which is faster than the other mind-rape, of or a flurry of devastating strikes?


http://lounge.moviecodec.com/images/attachment/ichigo-and-byakuya-vs-thor-3494.jpg

or

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/3/37499/804233-surfsego_super.jpg


vs...



http://gobbledygeekbtr.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/psiwar.png

or

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/10/101644/2033272-71222830.jpg




lethality? more effective? overall faster?

This may not be the answer you wanted but.....

......it all depends on the character using the speedblitz or thoughtbased attack. The powers themselves don't have set minimums or maximums.

Generally, blitzing should be faster.

Even without super speed, a good fighter can operate off of muscle memory and near unconsciously make attacks and defense. Obviously, high level speedsters operate faster than neurons can even fire, so there's not much debate on which is faster with top tier telepathics/telekinetics vs top tier speedsters..

Originally posted by StyleTime
This may not be the answer you wanted but.....

......it all depends on the character using the speedblitz or thoughtbased attack. The powers themselves don't have set minimums or maximums.

Basically, it comes down to how durable, or what kind of physical defenses (automatic shields?) the psi has. If Superman blitzed, say, Thanos, he's durable enough to survive the initial blitz and mind screw him.

The mind rape is more efficient that's for sure.

Originally posted by cdtm
Generally, blitzing should be faster.

Even without super speed, a good fighter can operate off of muscle memory and near unconsciously make attacks and defense. Obviously, high level speedsters operate faster than neurons can even fire, so there's not much debate on which is faster with top tier telepathics/telekinetics vs top tier speedsters..


well that argument can be boths way, since that same muscle memory requires conscious thought, u had to perceive the threat first in order to react to it. especially when it comes to auto-shielding.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Which is faster than the other mind-rape, of or a flurry of devastating strikes?

Flurry. Especially if we're using a true speed blitz against a human level telepath like Prof. X or Emma Frost. Bit dicey when we consider people like Martian Manhunter, who can speed blitz a mind raping...





Like previous posters have said, it depends. But if we take humans as an example, so Professor X vs the Flash (thus ignoring other factors such as Thanos' Eternal level reflexes or J'onn's Martian reflexes) then speedsters win overall.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
well that argument can be boths way, since that same muscle memory requires conscious thought, u had to perceive the threat first in order to react to it. especially when it comes to auto-shielding.

Thing is though, speedsters generally have much faster thought processes than normal humans. Examples include the Flash out thinking Solaris, a sun-sized supercomputer.

Originally posted by dmills
The mind rape is more efficient that's for sure.

It's also more easily defended against, with the development of psi shielding tech, and many top tiers having resistance or immunity.

I'd rather be a high end magic user than a high end telepath.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Thing is though, speedsters generally have much faster thought processes than normal humans. Examples include the Flash out thinking Solaris, a sun-sized supercomputer.


on average, id say they are about equal. But when it come to top tiers like jean, charles or MM..thought vs action comes into play and imo the psychic is greater...ie Barry would Lose to Charles since the speed of thought is roughly equal to the speed of light and he can affect the area prior to being hit since he has less action to take

lol, if it is a normal brain which does not operate at superspeed the speed blitz owns from a speedster. If it is a brain that operates at superspeed like MM or Maxima against a speed force speedster, then speedblitz owns. Only on KMC could a retarded question like this be asked seriously! The speed of thought is nothing like the speed of light. OMG where did you hear that.... OMG retards at KMC!

I think that this all depends on how fast the brain is capable of transmitting those thoughts, in comparison to how fast the other character is moving. If I were to have Flash run across the universe, and reach a specific destination before I could think of the destination, It's obvious that I would be able to envision the destination light years before the Flash ever arrived.

However in a battle scenario, if a telepath is being wailed on by a speedster, it would become very evident that he would likely never be able to out think the beating that he/she was taking due to the interference of the hits taken.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
on average, id say they are about equal. But when it come to top tiers like jean, charles or MM..thought vs action comes into play and imo the psychic is greater...ie Barry would Lose to Charles since the speed of thought is roughly equal to the speed of light and he can affect the area prior to being hit since he has less action to take

Nah, speed of thought is nowhere near the speed of light. Speed of light is around (god I sound like h1a8 here) 299792458 m/s.

Reaction times on average are around 215 milliseconds (source: http://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime/stats.php)

So in the time it takes to react to something, the Flash would have moved 644553778.5 metres.

Just food for thought.

The blitz is better provided that both the first hits lands before the other makes an action and that it stuns (prevents action of thinking).

This is the underlying principle of the combo to ko.
Durability to survive a blitz is not the same as durability to withstand being stunned from the first blow of the blitz.

In comics, there are multiple examples of the combo to ko without using even great speed.

Originally posted by Stoic
I think that this all depends on how fast the brain is capable of transmitting those thoughts, in comparison to how fast the other character is moving. If I were to have Flash run across the universe, and reach a specific destination before I could think of the destination, It's obvious that I would be able to envision the destination light years before the Flash ever arrived.

Thinking of a destination is not the same - are you saying that you can think much much faster than the speed of light? You're mixing an abstract concept (thinking of something) vs a physical concept (arriving at a destination).

ok i will indulge you. The brain operates at the speed of thought right, which is nothing more than a series of electrcal impulses, which in lamens terms is (roughly, becaue it takes time to process the information seen) the speed of light. Psychics and speedsters (in comics mind you) have always shown to operate at several leagues faster than baseline humans (such as Darkseid showing he can think in full paragraphs in less then a pico second etc) my argument is that since there is no physical action required in telepathy and they have already shown to operate at several leagues faster than light could they potentially trump high end blitzers who require thought, movement (no matter how fast), AND action..



lets say that professor x and flashs mind both are equal and minds work at the speed of light... charles has to first percieve the threat (phuck!! barry allen)...formulate an attack (mind rape), then attack (make him my b!tch)

while say flash has to perceive (profesor x is tryna kill me), formulate an attack( im gonna blitz his ass), rush the attacker (speedblitz) then attack (combo to ko)

Originally posted by Sin I AM
ok i will indulge you. The brain operates at the speed of thought right, which is nothing more than a series of electrcal impulses, which in lamens terms is (roughly, becaue it takes time to process the information seen) the speed of light. Psychics and speedsters (in comics mind you) have always shown to operate at several leagues faster than baseline humans (such as Darkseid showing he can think in full paragraphs in less then a pico second etc) my argument is that since there is no physical action required in telepathy and they have already shown to operate at several leagues faster than light could they potentially trump high end blitzers who require thought, movement (no matter how fast), AND action..



lets say that professor x and flashs mind both are equal and minds work at the speed of light... charles has to first percieve the threat (phuck!! barry allen)...formulate an attack (mind rape), then attack (make him my b!tch)

while say flash has to perceive (profesor x is tryna kill me), formulate an attack( im gonna blitz his ass), rush the attacker (speedblitz) then attack (combo to ko)

but that supposes that xavier and barry have equal speed of thought, when they don't.

someone like a flash, say, can move faster than human-level synapses can fire. charles or emma could be knocked out before they even perceive a threat.

(even superman has pulled off that trick before).

Originally posted by Sin I AM


Problem is, their minds aren't equal. Its like having a racing car driver and a normal person (but much much much more unequal). So if you imagine driving at 40km/hr, and a rabbit suddenly runs across your path. You react, and swerve out of the way.

Now imagine driving at 80km/hr. The amount of time to process the information is much less now.

Now imagine driving at 10000km/hr. There's a reason why we have speed limits on roads - humans do not have the ability to react that quickly. Now, even in comics, yes, they have the ability to operate faster than 'real life' humans. But that is still dwarfed by a genuine speedster's reaction speeds.

.

Thought isn't actually as fast as light though. When have Jean and them shown to halt things going ftl in their tracks before getting hit? If they can then it means they themselves think ftl not that thought in general is.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Thinking of a destination is not the same - are you saying that you can think much much faster than the speed of light? You're mixing an abstract concept (thinking of something) vs a physical concept (arriving at a destination).



C'mon bro you know what I'm saying . If the Flash moved at the speed of light, and the destination was 9 light years away, I could go to sleep wake up take a shower, get married, and still think of the destination faster than it would take the Flash to arrive at said destination, with 8+ years to spare.

Originally posted by Stoic
C'mon bro you know what I'm saying . If the Flash moved at the speed of light, and the destination was 9 light years away, I could go to sleep wake up take a shower, get married, and still think of the destination faster than it would take the Flash to arrive at said destination, with 8+ years to spare.

Lol, by that logic, you can write about the destination before the Flash arrives. Can you write at the speed of light?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lol, by that logic, you can write about the destination before the Flash arrives. Can you write at the speed of light?



ha ha. In this case I wouldn't have to. You have to admit though, that depending on the distance, the speed of thought is faster than the speed of light.

Originally posted by Stoic
ha ha. In this case I wouldn't have to. You have to admit though, that depending on the distance, the speed of thought is faster than the speed of light.

Lol, see I still don't think so, because I see it as comparing apples and oranges. Your thoughts aren't travelling, as it were, so its not comparable. If the speed of thought is constant, which it is (your thoughts don't speed up lol), and the speed of light is constant, then distance does not matter! Time taken = Distance divided by speed, so if the distance is the same in our little race, and speed does not change, you can't have the speed of thought outracing the speed of light over long distances as opposed to short distances.

Would you be able to send a thought to your destination faster than the speed of light, that is the question.

Originally posted by jalek moye
Thought isn't actually as fast as light though. When have Jean and them shown to halt things going ftl in their tracks before getting hit? If they can then it means they themselves think ftl not that thought in general is.

Actually speed isn't time. You need distance.

For example, a mere human can react to a lightspeed attack if it came from a distance where light needs a second to travel.

In this thread i think we assume battle distance (.5 km) and someone who is able to move at light speed almost instantly (like flash).

Originally posted by Stoic
ha ha. In this case I wouldn't have to. You have to admit though, that depending on the distance, the speed of thought is faster than the speed of light.

Only because the distance it's crossing is shorter.

Originally posted by h1a8
Actually speed isn't time. You need distance.

For example, a mere human can react to a lightspeed attack if it came from a distance where light needs a second to travel.

In this thread i think we assume battle distance (.5 km) and someone who is able to move at light speed almost instantly (like flash).

Nah. Because you won't see it lol, as sight is dependent on the light bouncing off the object (in this case, a fist).

Originally posted by -Pr-
Only because the distance it's crossing is shorter.


Precisely. So in essence, if I could instantly be at a destination 9 light years away, I in fact have broken the speed of light by an incredible margin. Thought is faster than light, we just have to figure out something faster than thought.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lol, see I still don't think so, because I see it as comparing apples and oranges. Your thoughts aren't travelling, as it were, so its not comparable. If the speed of thought is constant, which it is (your thoughts don't speed up lol), and the speed of light is constant, then distance does not matter! Time taken = Distance divided by speed, so if the distance is the same in our little race, and speed does not change, you can't have the speed of thought outracing the speed of light over long distances as opposed to short distances.

Would you be able to send a thought to your destination faster than the speed of light, that is the question.

At first a Honda Civic appears to be faster than a big rig Mack Truck, but the truth becomes evident over the distance, when we see that the truck is nearly 1.5x as fast as the Civic at top speeds. The same example can and should be applied to the speed of thought vs the speed of light.

Originally posted by Stoic
Precisely. So in essence, if I could instantly be at a destination 9 light years away, I in fact have broken the speed of light by an incredible margin. Thought is faster than light, we just have to figure out something faster than thought.

Thinking about something is not the same as travelling to it, though. I can write about something, it does not = me travelling to it. I can type the words 'Stoic travelled to Alpha Centauri, which is about 4 light years away'. Does this mean the speed of typing is faster than the speed of light???? So by the same logic, thinking about something is not the same as travelling to it, otherwise I'd never have to pay all those expensive air fares to travel lol.




So you're saying, your thoughts speed up?

Nothing, NOTHING is faster than light. You're comparing abstract concepts with a physical concept, and never the twain should meet...

innuendur

Originally posted by Stoic
Precisely. So in essence, if I could instantly be at a destination 9 light years away, I in fact have broken the speed of light by an incredible margin. Thought is faster than light, we just have to figure out something faster than thought.





No the only distance is being done between ur brain and ur body, it's much shorter than getting from Earth to the end of the universe.

It's liek saying I walk faster than a car, because I can get to the edge of my door before a car across town can do the same.


your thoughts aren't actually traveling to that place, even if you teleport you not teleporting at the speed of thought, the thought is activated a separate physical mechanism.

If u were to run at the exact speed it takes your thoughts to complete, you'd be going much slower than light.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Thinking about something is not the same as travelling to it, though. I can write about something, it does not = me travelling to it. I can type the words 'Stoic travelled to Alpha Centauri, which is about 4 light years away'. Does this mean the speed of typing is faster than the speed of light???? So by the same logic, thinking about something is not the same as travelling to it, otherwise I'd never have to pay all those expensive air fares to travel lol.




So you're saying, your thoughts speed up?

Nothing, NOTHING is faster than light. You're comparing abstract concepts with a physical concept, and never the twain should meet...

No thought does not speed up, it was always faster than light, it was my ability to create the thought that was the slow point, once the thought is released however, there is nothing physically faster. it would overtake light speed the way a super sonic jet would overtake a turtle. It's not really as abstract as you might at first believe, and in fact, if you were to just think about it you would see that light is very slow in comparison. perhaps I am not explaining it in a way that you can agree with, but -Pr- immediately understood what I was talking about.

Thought is not about distance, but the ability to bridge that distance instantly.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Nah. Because you won't see it lol, as sight is dependent on the light bouncing off the object (in this case, a fist).

right
well assuming one with human reflexes but can sense things without light having to bounce off then you get the point. Or better yet, if the said attack WAS STATED to be delivered in your exact location 1 sec after the starting bell.

Originally posted by jalek moye
No the only distance is being done between ur brain and ur body, it's much shorter than getting from Earth to the end of the universe.

It's liek saying I walk faster than a car, because I can get to the edge of my door before a car across town can do the same.


your thoughts aren't actually traveling to that place, even if you teleport you not teleporting at the speed of thought, the thought is activated a separate physical mechanism.

If u were to run at the exact speed it takes your thoughts to complete, you'd be going much slower than light.


You do know what instantly means right? If I could instantly be wherever i thought of being, I would be moving far faster than light speed.

Originally posted by Stoic
No thought does not speed up, it was always faster than light, it was my ability to create the thought that was the slow point, once the thought is released however, there is nothing physically faster. it would overtake light speed the way a super sonic jet would overtake a turtle. It's not really as abstract as you might at first believe, and in fact, if you were to just think about it you would see that light is very slow in comparison. perhaps I am not explaining it in a way that you can agree with, but -Pr- immediately understood what I was talking about.

Thought is not about distance, but the ability to bridge that distance instantly.

If you are referring to the speed of telepathy after it is released then i think it has variable speeds in comics by different characters. But some are indeed faster than light.

But this is irrelevant since the battle distance is sufficiently small enough to blitz before the thought is released.

Originally posted by Stoic
You do know what instantly means right? If I could instantly be wherever i thought of being, I would be moving far faster than light speed.

I think I am slowly (my thought processes obviously run slower lol) am getting what you mean. The actual process to get the thought started is slow, but once it happens, it happens. I get ya. You're absolutely correct.

However, with that said, you'd still lose to the Flash lol. Unless of course, you cheated by travelling by use of some other method such as wormholes etc.

An example would be Magik. Say she raced the Flash to Alpha Centauri. She would think of her destination, go into Limbo and then pop out at her destination, beating the Flash. However, if she travelled by some method of transmitting her molecules to the destination, then she'd lose.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I think I am slowly (my thought processes obviously run slower lol) am getting what you mean. The actual process to get the thought started is slow, but once it happens, it happens. I get ya. You're absolutely correct.

However, with that said, you'd still lose to the Flash lol. Unless of course, you cheated by travelling by use of some other method such as wormholes etc.

An example would be Magik. Say she raced the Flash to Alpha Centauri. She would think of her destination, go into Limbo and then pop out at her destination, beating the Flash. However, if she travelled by some method of transmitting her molecules to the destination, then she'd lose.


Well that's what instantly means. Thought bridging the gap would be a wormhole, and thus be at the destination far faster than light. If man ever achieved light speed, he would find a way to go faster. I would compare traveling at light speed vs traveling at the speed of thought (or instantaneous transit) to walking to California from France vs taking a jet plane there. bridging the gap, is faster than physically going the entire distance. In a way this is true when you count distance.

Originally posted by Stoic
You do know what instantly means right? If I could instantly be wherever i thought of being, I would be moving far faster than light speed.
But the thought itself isn't instant. It takes time for the thought to form. Once your thought tells your body to teleport then the teleport is instant. But it's a separate thing from the actual process of thinking. Thinking takes time, teleporting doesn't. It still takes time for the thought to reach whatever part activates it.

Originally posted by h1a8
If you are referring to the speed of telepathy after it is released then i think it has variable speeds in comics by different characters. But some are indeed faster than light.

But this is irrelevant since the battle distance is sufficiently small enough to blitz before the thought is released.


Go back to my first post, and read what I said. I made two points.

Originally posted by jalek moye
But the thought itself isn't instant. It takes time for the thought to form. Once your thought tells your body to teleport then the teleport is instant. But it's a separate thing from the actual process of thinking. Thinking takes time, teleporting doesn't. It still takes time for the thought to reach whatever part activates it.

I tell the Flash who can move a little faster than the speed of light to meet me at Exalom 19. I think in my mind of Exalom 19, which is 900 billion light years away from the Earth, and have the power to be there instantly. Not only would the Flash never arrive at the destination due to his death, but I would die before he reached even one tenth of the distance. Remove the teleporter's, and just think of the concept as opening a door to get to another room. Thus bridging the gap. They spoke of this theory on the Science channel, and it even aired on Discovery. I am not a crack pot.

For myself, I'd rather be able to speedblitz than mindrape.

Originally posted by Stoic
I tell the Flash who can move a little faster than the speed of light to meet me at Exalom 19. I think in my mind of Exalom 19, which is 900 billion light years away from the Earth, and have the power to be there instantly. Not only would the Flash never arrive at the destination due to his death, but I would die before he reached even one tenth of the distance. Remove the teleporter's, and just think of the concept as opening a door to get to another room. Thus bridging the gap. They spoke of this theory on the Science channel, and it even aired on Discovery. I am not a crack pot.

Lol no one said you were, mate. You're right, if you could 'portal' your way over to Exalom 19, then yes, you would reach it ahead of any lightspeeders.

So as per the OP (before we get sidetracked), if my opponent was indeed on Exalom 19, and I was powerful enough to mindrape them from Earth, then yes, I would say that mindraping is faster. I doubt that was the kind of attack Sin I Am had in mind, though lol.

Originally posted by Stoic
Go back to my first post, and read what I said. I made two points.

I addressed those points. I argued variability in comics. Meaning not all telepathy travels faster than light (some do though). With the telepathy that is faster then you are right. Also, your other point is irrelevant since we assume battle distance here unless stated otherwise, and it takes more time to generate the thought than it does for a true speedster to cover the battle distance.

Am I missing something? If so then just restate what I missed.

Originally posted by Mindship
For myself, I'd rather be able to speedblitz than mindrape.


But how would you do that if the mind raper (Bad Bug X) knew that you (the rapee) were going to speed blitz before you even begun lifting an arm? Would you not be shut down? Could Bad Bug X, make you believe that you are hitting him, while in fact you would be hitting the bricks?

Originally posted by Stoic
But how would you do that if the mind raper (Bad Bug X) knew that you (the rapee) were going to speed blitz before you even begun lifting an arm? Would you not be shut down? Could Bad Bug X, make you believe that you are hitting him, while in fact you would be hitting the bricks?

Surely the mind rapist wouldn't be able to read my thoughts, because I'd be thinking too fast for him. Like trying to read a book by flipping the pages.

And by the time he's trying to read my thoughts, I've punched him in his shiny mutant-loving head.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lol no one said you were, mate. You're right, if you could 'portal' your way over to Exalom 19, then yes, you would reach it ahead of any lightspeeders.

So as per the OP (before we get sidetracked), if my opponent was indeed on Exalom 19, and I was powerful enough to mindrape them from Earth, then yes, I would say that mindraping is faster. I doubt that was the kind of attack Sin I Am had in mind, though lol.


I know... shhhh!

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Surely the mind rapist wouldn't be able to read my thoughts, because I'd be thinking too fast for him. Like trying to read a book by flipping the pages.

And by the time he's trying to read my thoughts, I've punched him in his shiny mutant-loving head.


You said it, I didn't. Apply this reasoning to my earlier posts. Just do it for a second, and what do you get? but while you do imagine the Flash with TP.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/assets/images/preview/3774/prv3774_pg1.jpg

Originally posted by Stoic
You said it, I didn't. Apply this reasoning to my earlier posts. Just do it for a second, and what do you get?

Not quite sure what I'm supposed to be reasoning lol. As a speedster, my thought processes are far faster than a normal human's, even one as well trained as Prof X (I'm ignoring alien telepaths because that opens up a can of worms lol).

It's like having two PCs, but one is on superfast optic fibre broadband (the speedster) and the other is on dialup (the telepath). Sure, both can do the same basic thing, which is watch porn (i.e. thinking about fighting) but one PC is going to achieve it much much quicker than the other.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak


That's correct, we agreed that the speed of thought is faster. But creating that thought in the first place, over a battle distance - a speedster would form that thought much quicker than a human telepath.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Not quite sure what I'm supposed to be reasoning lol. As a speedster, my thought processes are far faster than a normal human's, even one as well trained as Prof X (I'm ignoring alien telepaths because that opens up a can of worms lol).

It's like having two PCs, but one is on superfast optic fibre broadband (the speedster) and the other is on dialup (the telepath). Sure, both can do the same basic thing, which is watch porn (i.e. thinking about fighting) but one PC is going to achieve it much much quicker than the other.


If the Flash had TP he would make the speed of thought even faster, thus he would not only be able to perceive his opponents thoughts quicker, but he would be able to mind rape them faster as well.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
http://www.comicbookresources.com/assets/images/preview/3774/prv3774_pg1.jpg

This says it all.

Originally posted by Stoic
If the Flash had TP he would make the speed of thought even faster, thus he would not only be able to perceive his opponents thoughts quicker, but he would be able to mind rape them faster as well.

Yes, but I think the OP's intention was two humans (or two Martians, or whatever), one with superspeed, one with telepathy, who would be faster. As I said, ignoring people like MM who can speedblitz AND mind rape...




You do know Flash moves faster than thought, right? JLA #20, when him, MM, Superman and WW break out of prison as they're 'faster than thought', and overpower their telepathic prison wardens.

^Barry made his thoughts so fast that even j'onn a speedster couldn't read his thoughts in blackest night.

This says it all:

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff102/Wally_Respect2/plansec.jpg

So it comes down to whomever can think faster, because if this was well thought out. The Speedster wouldn't be able to do anything, as the mind raper could make him think that he is doing all of these things, while in the mean time, the speedster may be actually sitting in a dark corner being prepared for the probe.

Originally posted by Stoic
So it comes down to whomever can think faster, because if this was well thought out. The Speedster wouldn't be able to do anything, as the mind raper could make him think that he is doing all of these things, while in the mean time, the speedster may be actually sitting in a dark corner being prepared for the probe.

Exactly. And by definition, the human who can move faster will think and react faster than the human who thinks at normal speeds.

Unless of course, you give the telepath prep time. Otherwise, if as per battle rules they start at opposite ends of a field, the bell goes DING....

The speedster would have smacked the telepath before the sound of the bell has even reached the telepath's ears....

Xavier and Lilandra have communicated telepathically across galaxies with seemingly no delay or lag. Do with that information what you will.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Xavier and Lilandra have communicated telepathically across galaxies with seemingly no delay or lag. Do with that information what you will. We already discussed that and agreed that telepathy can be faster than light. The discussion then became about the speedster getting to the telepath before they can form the thought or react to the bell. Because after the telepath thinks then it's too late and the telepathy will beat the speedster.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Xavier and Lilandra have communicated telepathically across galaxies with seemingly no delay or lag. Do with that information what you will.

Impressive, but also begs the question if Xavier is that powerful, why he'd need Cerebro for planetary level tp.

Originally posted by Stoic
Precisely. So in essence, if I could instantly be at a destination 9 light years away, I in fact have broken the speed of light by an incredible margin. Thought is faster than light, we just have to figure out something faster than thought.

Thought in and of itself isn't faster than light though.

Thought is a process, not one singular thing. An average human's thought isn't FTL. For someone like Barry Allen, well, he thinks faster than anyone, so in essence, you could argue that his were.

Ok, here's what we could do.

Speedsters vs telepaths. Do we have instances of human telepaths owning human speedsters? Because we certainly have instances of the Flash owning telepaths.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Ok, here's what we could do.

Speedsters vs telepaths. Do we have instances of human telepaths owning human speedsters? Because we certainly have instances of the Flash owning telepaths.

Dunno, your best best is to ask one of them X-men fans and ask if quicksilver has ever been pawned by Jean, Prof. X, Psylocke, etc.

Originally posted by gogogadgetgo
Dunno, your best best is to ask one of them X-men fans and ask if quicksilver has ever been pawned by Jean, Prof. X, Psylocke, etc.

Oh yeah, there's him lol, forgot about that. I know Mr X tried his mind reading shtick, only to realise he was too fast for his own mind to process.

Before Psylocke was turned into an Asian looking Super Model, she had a sparring competition with Rogue. Rogue believed that she was hitting Betsy, but in fact she hit a rock.

The only way that I can see a telepath doing well against a speedster is if the telepath could think as fast as the speedster. If this is the case, then the telepath would be able to perform the same trickery that Betsy performed on Rogue.

There was another account of a similar thing happening, and it happened when Superman fought Masacre (or however you spell his name). Masacre wasn't really a telepath in the way how he used his powers, but he could read an opponents muscle fibers, which would alert him, allowing for him to block, parry, and pummel him. Superman thought that Masacre was actually faster than him. Sooo....

Originally posted by Stoic
Before Psylocke was turned into an Asian looking Super Model, she had a sparring competition with Rogue. Rogue believed that she was hitting Betsy, but in fact she hit a rock.

The only way that I can see a telepath doing well against a speedster is if the telepath could think as fast as the speedster. If this is the case, then the telepath would be able to perform the same trickery that Betsy performed on Rogue.

There was another account of a similar thing happening, and it happened when Superman fought Masacre (or however you spell his name). Masacre wasn't really a telepath in the way how he used his powers, but he could read an opponents muscle fibers, which would alert him, allowing for him to block, parry, and pummel him. Superman thought that Masacre was actually faster than him. Sooo....

I'd see that as a low showing for Superman, tbh.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I'd see that as a low showing for Superman, tbh.


Not sure if I can agree with you 100%, i can see where you're coming from though. All the same, if Superman didn't figure out Masacre's powerset, he would have likely lost again. They just wrote Masascre to be a badass back then is my guess.

Originally posted by Stoic
Before Psylocke was turned into an Asian looking Super Model, she had a sparring competition with Rogue. Rogue believed that she was hitting Betsy, but in fact she hit a rock.

The only way that I can see a telepath doing well against a speedster is if the telepath could think as fast as the speedster. If this is the case, then the telepath would be able to perform the same trickery that Betsy performed on Rogue.

There was another account of a similar thing happening, and it happened when Superman fought Masacre (or however you spell his name). Masacre wasn't really a telepath in the way how he used his powers, but he could read an opponents muscle fibers, which would alert him, allowing for him to block, parry, and pummel him. Superman thought that Masacre was actually faster than him. Sooo....

Yeah, I get what you're saying, and I agree 100% with you. Put two opponents together, who have equal speeds of thought, and the telepath would win. So if I had a crowbar, and was up against Prof X, being both of equal human-level reaction speeds, he would own me. Even ignoring of course the fact I'm a desk jockey and Prof X is a trained fighter lol.

BUT, speedsters, by their very nature, are quicker on the draw. So in reply to the OP, I still think that a mass flurry of superspeed punches would be faster than a mindrape (distance and power permitting, of course - I'm thinking of the Exalom 19 fight lol).

What would be interesting would be to see a speed-telepathster fighting. Martian Manhunter vs White Martians, for example.

Originally posted by Stoic
Not sure if I can agree with you 100%, i can see where you're coming from though. All the same, if Superman didn't figure out Masacre's powerset, he would have likely lost again. They just wrote Masascre to be a badass back then is my guess.

Maybe. And it was back in the day before they really explored his speed, iirc.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Maybe. And it was back in the day before they really explored his speed, iirc.

Also, just to add to the debate, its alsways tricky when debating alien speeds and reaction times. For all we know, MAssacre's race may indeed be faster than Kryptonians....

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Also, just to add to the debate, its alsways tricky when debating alien speeds and reaction times. For all we know, MAssacre's race may indeed be faster than Kryptonians....


Uh oh, you're treading on thin ice.


Originally posted by -Pr-
Maybe. And it was back in the day before they really explored his speed, iirc.

For sure, Superman is or at least was more powerful than he was when Masacre beat him the first time around before DCnU came into play.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Also, just to add to the debate, its alsways tricky when debating alien speeds and reaction times. For all we know, MAssacre's race may indeed be faster than Kryptonians....

Given the swift kicking Superman gave him in later years, I'm not so sure.

Originally posted by Stoic
Uh oh, you're treading on thin ice.




For sure, Superman is or at least was more powerful than he was when Masacre beat him the first time around before DCnU came into play.

Aye.

Lol I'm by no means arguing for Massacre; I was only pointing out that it can get tricky sometimes when debating things like that with alien races.

Just to add to this, its perception then reaction.

For example, while driving and then encountering an accident or an obstacle, the average person's perception time is less than a second. What takes time is after perceiving the obstacle, the decision on what to do, whether to swerve left or right or to try and stop, once that decision is made, the appropriate action is taken which is the reaction time.

Lets take Thor's reaction to Phoenix's mental blast. The mental blast was said to be instantaneous and is probably the speed of thought. Thor was able to block it and counter with very little effort. Its not that he can think that fast, its just that its more like a reflex action. When he perceived the mental blast, after centuries of fighting, he instinctively reacted without having to think of what to do.

Now back to the mental assault vs speedblitz, if say the two had the same thought speed, but the speedster has an instinctive reaction to dash immediately once the fight starts, the telepath is screwed. But if say, the telepath has an instinctive reaction to do a AOE mental bomb right of the bat, I'd have to say that the speedster would get his brain fried before he reaches the telepath. But thats just me.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lol I'm by no means arguing for Massacre; I was only pointing out that it can get tricky sometimes when debating things like that with alien races.

Oh, yeah, of course.

Originally posted by gogogadgetgo
Just to add to this, its perception then reaction.

For example, while driving and then encountering an accident or an obstacle, the average person's perception time is less than a second. What takes time is after perceiving the obstacle, the decision on what to do, whether to swerve left or right or to try and stop, once that decision is made, the appropriate action is taken which is the reaction time.

Lets take Thor's reaction to Phoenix's mental blast. The mental blast was said to be instantaneous and is probably the speed of thought. Thor was able to block it and counter with very little effort. Its not that he can think that fast, its just that its more like a reflex action. When he perceived the mental blast, after centuries of fighting, he instinctively reacted without having to think of what to do.

Now back to the mental assault vs speedblitz, if say the two had the same thought speed, but the speedster has an instinctive reaction to dash immediately once the fight starts, the telepath is screwed. But if say, the telepath has an instinctive reaction to do a AOE mental bomb right of the bat, I'd have to say that the speedster would get his brain fried before he reaches the telepath. But thats just me.

Agreed. The only problem is that the two do not have the same thought speed - speedsters must (and do) have faster thought processes.

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff102/Wally_Respect2/rematchgrod4.jpg
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff102/Wally_Respect2/rematchgrod5.jpg

And this is with a pissed off Gorilla. Am I going to argue that Gorillas have faster reaction times than a comparable human? Maybe. Lol.

Was this during the same run where Wally stupidly said that thought was faster than light?

Since the scope of either ability is largely character (or even writer) determined, I look at it this way...

- The actual 'speed of thought' - the neural impulses - is pretty slow (ie, compared to light*): something like 100 meters/second, at best. So even if the telepathic 'bullet' is instantaneous ('nonlocal' as some theoretical physicists might say), the pulling of the neural trigger is the woefully weak link. (*The speed of light is about 300,000 km/sec: about 3 million times faster.)
- As a speedster, even if I could 'only' do 1/100 lightspeed, I'm still 30,000 x faster in my own sensorimotor / neural functioning (otherwise how could I coordinate my speedblitz) than someone else's neural trigger.
- Moreso, telepathy is only effective against living things, whereas speedblitzing is applicable whenever. Ie, if I can punch superfast, I should be able to dodge superfast if, say, a Skynet H-K is after me (since the OP didn't specify, I see no logical reasoning to assume my superspeed would be task-specific, ie, only good for punching).

But again, comics-wise: which is better is going to depend on the character and/or the writer.

^^

Great debating here friends.

Just to add,
it's known nowadays that "Dark Energy" is moving all matter apart by expanding Space,
but incredibly its propelling the farther Galaxies outward faster than the speed of light.

So both "Thought" & "Space" are faster than light. ...

Originally posted by Mr Master
^^

Great debating here friends.

Just to add,
it's known nowadays that "Dark Energy" is moving all matter apart by expanding Space,
but incredibly its propelling the farther Galaxies outward faster than the speed of light.

So both "Thought" & "Space" are faster than light. ...

Really? I mean, not saying you're wrong, but I find it hard to believe the universe is expanding faster than light....

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Really? I mean, not saying you're wrong, but I find it hard to believe the universe is expanding faster than light....


even with that being said there is evidence depicting that both thought and ftl speed (in comics ) are roughly equal. once the playing field is leveled like that youd have to give the nod to psychics since no travel time is required

Yeah, and I did. Once you equalise their speeds, i.e. if Professor X could think as fast as the Flash, then yes, thought-based attacks are faster. But you'd have to take the main advantage of a speedster away, their thought/reaction speed.

In other words, if Prof X was sitting in a chair (am assuming he is still crippled), and I was standing with a crowbar about 50 metres away from him. We are both humans, so have roughly comparable reaction times. Of course he is going to stunbolt me before I get anywhere near him, no matter how fast I am relative to him. But give me Flash-level reaction times, and as soon as I see the bell ring I'd have hit him. And this would be even before Prof X has even heard the bell ring, as light travels faster than sound.

Both should benefit from an accelerated thinking process.

Originally posted by "Id"
Both should benefit from an accelerated thinking process.

Why? If I'm telepathic and can read minds, that does't automatically mean I have superfast reflexes, any more so than my ability to read a book gives me additonal powers.

Aprt from the power of KNOWLEDGE!!!

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
In other words, if Prof X was sitting in a chair (am assuming he is still crippled), and I was standing with a crowbar about 50 metres away from him. We are both humans, so have roughly comparable reaction times. Of course he is going to stunbolt me before I get anywhere near him, no matter how fast I am relative to him. But give me Flash-level reaction times, and as soon as I see the bell ring I'd have hit him. And this would be even before Prof X has even heard the bell ring, as light travels faster than sound.

I think we can all agree that given that most telepaths are humans, at short distances, they'd get stomped by speedsters, but increasing distance would increase their chances depending on how fast the speedster is.

I guess the X-Men know what their doing when they have the grunts i.e. Wolverine and Colossus go in busting, long range i.e. Cyclops taking out enemies from the distance and the telepaths hanging at the back.

Originally posted by gogogadgetgo
I think we can all agree that given that most telepaths are humans, at short distances, they'd get stomped by speedsters, but increasing distance would increase their chances depending on how fast the speedster is.

I guess the X-Men know what their doing when they have the grunts i.e. Wolverine and Colossus go in busting, long range i.e. Cyclops taking out enemies from the distance and the telepaths hanging at the back.

Agreed on all counts.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Agreed on all counts.

I'd also say that it depends on the power of the telepath, just as it depends on the speedster's....speed.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Why? If I'm telepathic and can read minds, that does't automatically mean I have superfast reflexes, any more so than my ability to read a book gives me additonal powers.

Aprt from the power of KNOWLEDGE!!!

thats the point your not getting hun, a telepath does not need "reflexes"...all he has to do is "think" the attack...similar to the gorilla grodd scan, but id have to see the entire fight again to remember the context

banandur

Originally posted by Mr Master
^^

but incredibly its propelling the farther Galaxies outward faster than the speed of light.

That sounds like crack pot science to me.
Sources?

But thought is not faster than light when it is forming. For example, the average human reaction time is .215 seconds. But that is only a "GO" reaction and not a complicated one such as trying to mind rape someone.

Originally posted by h1a8
Thank you. I learned something new today. I don't remember my astronomy class of a long time ago ever discussing this. Prehaps it's new or I missed class those days.

the observations have been around for quite a long while now..... it is still cool though.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I'd also say that it depends on the power of the telepath, just as it depends on the speedster's....speed.

agreed. more powerful telepaths seems to be able to think faster than the weaker ones which doesn't make sense. but thats comic for you.

actually, i even see a double KO scenario. if the distance between the speedster and the telepath is far enough for the telepath to fry the speedster's brain or fire out an AOE mental blast, but isn't far enough for the speedster to physically stop, there is no way in hell the telepath would able to dodge and get out of the way hence, the now unconscious or brain fried speedster would continue on its course and collide with the telepath unless of course the speedster is running in a zig zag manner, but that doesn't make sense.

Originally posted by h1a8
But thought is not faster than light when it is forming. For example, the average human reaction time is .215 seconds. But that is only a "GO" reaction and not a complicated one such as trying to mind rape someone.

Never thought I'd say this but I agree with h1. Thought, when already generated is instantaneous, what ever the hell that means, but the generation of though is what matters. As a rule, speedsters have faster perception and reaction time than most. If they didn't they'd be ramming into walls and shit.

Only way a telepath would win a quick draw is if off the bat he or she just fires off an AOE mental bomb. And that's a big If.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
thats the point your not getting hun, a telepath does not need "reflexes"...all he has to do is "think" the attack...similar to the gorilla grodd scan, but id have to see the entire fight again to remember the context

but that's the point: someone like, say, flash, thinks faster than xavier, so even if xavier is about to think "attack", barry allen has already thought about it, moved across the room and knocked him out.

shaggyman, grundy, thanos, darkseid, hulk, juggernaut, Mogul all hit FTL characters all the time. So is all that PIS? is the shaggyman ripping through the JLA pis? if you move at FTL speeds you should never get hit...ever, but they always do. Since it always happens does it override the PIS?

It's expected that mongul can hit superman. lightspeed fighitng is always very hard for me to argue for and against. since there are so many examples of them getting hit. If its accepted that mongul can hit diana, why cant spider man or nightcrawler hit diana as well?

Shaggyman hit WW and SM while huntress and batman dance around him and hit him with arrows and grenades. Same with Hulk vs glads or surfer...so that cancels the notion that these bricks have reflexes FTL since they have trouble hitting street levelers like bats, cap and wolverine but they end up hitting lightspeeders as well.

I've always wondered that of VS boards like this. A lot of people say shaggyman can beat superman. There is no way shaggyman thinks FTL but he was created at the same time to stomp on the JLA. So is every shaggyman vs the jla battle pis? Thor can hit the surfer and at the same time get hit by the hulk or thing. it's this inconsistency that makes the speedblitz such a difficult thing to argue about.

It might be abc logic, (and it can be flawed) but you also measure the character by the opponents he has faced. that's how you know where they stand power wise.

Originally posted by nwg202
shaggyman, grundy, thanos, darkseid, hulk, juggernaut, Mogul all hit FTL characters all the time. So is all that PIS? is the shaggyman ripping through the JLA pis? if you move at FTL speeds you should never get hit...ever, but they always do. Since it always happens does it override the PIS?

It's expected that mongul can hit superman. lightspeed fighitng is always very hard for me to argue for and against. since there are so many examples of them getting hit. If its accepted that mongul can hit diana, why cant spider man or nightcrawler hit diana as well?

Shaggyman hit WW and SM while huntress and batman dance around him and hit him with arrows and grenades. Same with Hulk vs glads or surfer...so that cancels the notion that these bricks have reflexes FTL since they have trouble hitting street levelers like bats, cap and wolverine but they end up hitting lightspeeders as well.

I've always wondered that of VS boards like this. A lot of people say shaggyman can beat superman. There is no way shaggyman thinks FTL but he was created at the same time to stomp on the JLA. So is every shaggyman vs the jla battle pis? Thor can hit the surfer and at the same time get hit by the hulk or thing. it's this inconsistency that makes the speedblitz such a difficult thing to argue about.

It might be abc logic, (and it can be flawed) but you also measure the character by the opponents he has faced. that's how you know where they stand power wise.

It's very easy to explain. See characters don't always fight at their best abilities in comics in order to have a good story. Speed is the one power that would make a comic very boring if anyone always used it effectively. The character would be absolutely unbeatable and there would be no challenge. It would be like the last man on Earth with a bunch of mannequins around with nothing to do but win.

Comics need this type of jobbing for fast characters, but in a forum fight characters fight at their best and will avoid jobbing for the sake of the story.

Originally posted by h1a8
It's very easy to explain. See characters don't always fight at their best abilities in comics in order to have a good story. Speed is the one power that would make a comic very boring if anyone always used it effectively. The character would be absolutely unbeatable and there would be no challenge. It would be like the last man on Earth with a bunch of mannequins around with nothing to do but win.

Comics need this type of jobbing for fast characters, but in a forum fight characters fight at their best and will avoid jobbing for the sake of the story.

Well it happens in the forums too. Most people think shaggyman beat supes. Everyone thinks thanos heats superman too. Classic strange is though of as unbeatable. but he has to utter spells and use hand gestures. Saying quicksilver northstar or photon beating classic stange is just wrong. do all these hell lords like mephisto and hela move at the speed of light? but its a given they beat a lot of lightspeeders...how do reality warpers even win when they cant think as fast as light speeders? How does thanos or darkseid really beat the flash? how do they even see him?

it's like my character can do this and this manipulate this from of energy have telepathy use powerful magic etc...well my character can speedblitz so i win...

Originally posted by nwg202
Well it happens in the forums too. Most people think shaggyman beat supes. Everyone thinks thanos heats superman too. Classic strange is though of as unbeatable. but he has to utter spells and use hand gestures. Saying quicksilver northstar or photon beating classic stange is just wrong. do all these hell lords like mephisto and hela move at the speed of light? but its a given they beat a lot of lightspeeders...how do reality warpers even win when they cant think as fast as light speeders? How does thanos or darkseid really beat the flash? how do they even see him?

it's like my character can do this and this manipulate this from of energy have telepathy use powerful magic etc...well my character can speedblitz so i win...

Mr Master, thank you for your reply; its always good to learn!

nwg, the reason why reality warpers etc can beat speedsters (imho) is because 'death' or being knocked out is a concept that the warpers are beyond. An example would be when Hawkeye shot HoM Wanda - she simply came back from it.

Without prep time and without auto shields, classic strange would be beaten by any speedster.

Darkseid is different again, as the New Gods exist in the 'Fourth World', so are outside our concepts of time and space. Thanos is...well, this is a reason why I didn't want to involve aliens an their reflex times lol.

When I was a kid, the power I most wanted was to those of the Spot, an obscure Spidey villain, after I saw him on the cartoon. Then I realised it was nothing without enhanced reflexes lol.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Mr Master, thank you for your reply; its always good to learn!

nwg, the reason why reality warpers etc can beat speedsters (imho) is because 'death' or being knocked out is a concept that the warpers are beyond. An example would be when Hawkeye shot HoM Wanda - she simply came back from it.

Without prep time and without auto shields, classic strange would be beaten by any speedster.

Darkseid is different again, as the New Gods exist in the 'Fourth World', so are outside our concepts of time and space. Thanos is...well, this is a reason why I didn't want to involve aliens an their reflex times lol.

When I was a kid, the power I most wanted was to those of the Spot, an obscure Spidey villain, after I saw him on the cartoon. Then I realised it was nothing without enhanced reflexes lol.

yeah strange did have those auto sheilds....but photon is made of light and strange can see through those sheilds. similar to when atom and green arrow took out darksied. lol but i guess magic does not require logic.

good point on the reality warpers, depends on the individual's ability to take the blitz i guess. oh well it is comics after all..if spidey can beat firelord anything can happen. lol

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/53950/1006287-746918_bpss_super_super.jpg

Just thought I'd leave this here....

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/53950/1006287-746918_bpss_super_super.jpg

Just thought I'd leave this here....

Yup you are right, this probably trumps the spidey firelord fight.