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Take for example Peter Parkers "spider sense" how does it stack up against Cassandra Cains ability to predict an opponents moves before they happen



which more effectively trumps the other....with all things being equal?

I'd roll with limited pre-cog ala Spiderman or Mr. X. Cain's skill won't do me a damn bit of good if I don't have her training and/or reflexes. Actually come to think of it neither would do me much good without the requisite reflexes to make full use of them

Originally posted by dmills
I'd roll with limited pre-cog ala Spiderman or Mr. X. Cain's skill won't do me a damn bit of good if I don't have her training and/or reflexes. Actually come to think of it neither would do me much good without the requisite reflexes to make full use of them


thats y i stated with all things being equal...ieven a baseline human who could body read would be able to simulate super human reflexes by dodging blows from another human before they connected

I'd go with precognition; it still works if you're unaware of the danger beforehand.

Limited Precog would be my choice as well. Although Spideys tends to vary, it'd help to sense say, an oncoming traffic collision, an ambush etc. More then just combat applications, but danger to my person overall.

Cass's body reading basically is precognition...

Spider Sense can even detect disease and stuff, so it's pretty useful. But it's also limited by Peter's ability to interpret the signals he's receiving. Cass's skills are much more consistent, as she can basically read someones mind like a telepathic simply by how they move, even up to complex thoughts..

=)

Originally posted by dmills
Limited Precog would be my choice as well. Although Spideys tends to vary, it'd help to sense say, an oncoming traffic collision, an ambush etc. More then just combat applications, but danger to my person overall.

agreed

Originally posted by dmills
Limited Precog would be my choice as well. Although Spideys tends to vary, it'd help to sense say, an oncoming traffic collision, an ambush etc. More then just combat applications, but danger to my person overall.

Spider Sense only detects dangers, though. Body reading would be useful for cutting through peoples bs, like reading a used car salesman, a politician, or a tradesman working on your house.. Not to mention finally being able to read a woman, instead of guessing all the time..

Originally posted by cdtm
Spider Sense only detects dangers, though. Body reading would be useful for cutting through peoples bs, like reading a used car salesman, a politician, or a tradesman working on your house.. Not to mention finally being able to read a woman, instead of guessing all the time..

Well since you put it that way

Each ability has It's own strengths and drawbacks. In my case, prolly due to my occupation, fear of the unknown -accidental death or dismemberment- is probably what would drive me more then wanting to read a chicks body language. Even if its to an almost preternatural degree. Besides, that's what the "mystery method" is for

Have they backpeddled Ravagers precog back to just body reading like Cain and Deathstroke have?

I'd go for Body Reading. It would be awesome in clubs, so I can finally see how much hate is roiling off women towards me.

Especially when I tell them that I want to read their bodies...

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Take for example Peter Parkers "spider sense" how does it stack up against Cassandra Cains ability to predict an opponents moves before they happen



which more effectively trumps the other....with all things being equal?

Pre-cog trumps it hard. CC can't predict something she can't see. For example, an attack from behind. Also she can't predict something like a programmed mechanical gun firing a laser or other attacks that have nothing to do with body movement.

So, Rose Willson vs Cassandra Cain? Who won that?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Take for example Peter Parkers "spider sense" how does it stack up against Cassandra Cains ability to predict an opponents moves before they happen



which more effectively trumps the other....with all things being equal?

It really depends on how good each person is at each.

Body reading often gives you more info. A target's emotions, not only their next movements but an understanding of what could after that.

Precog, on the flip side, can get you info that isn't shown yet. Things with no warning and such.


Functionally in many cases they're pretty similar.

Precog. Doesn't body reading mean having to see a body in order to read it? Precog is not "line-of-sight."

Originally posted by Mindship
Precog. Doesn't body reading mean having to see a body in order to read it? Precog is not "line-of-sight."


yes but i was referring to its applications in actual combat, as i stated in my example of Casssie vs Peter...with all things being equal, my argument is wouldnt they potentially cancel each other out? Since both would pretty much know what the other was planning prior to the engagement, the fight would end up being a series of feints, and potentially end in a standstill

Originally posted by Sin I AM
yes but i was referring to its applications in actual combat, as i stated in my example of Casssie vs Peter...with all things being equal, my argument is wouldnt they potentially cancel each other out? Since both would pretty much know what the other was planning prior to the engagement, the fight would end up being a series of feints, and potentially end in a standstill His current SS tells Parker what to do, so if Cass already moves for her strike Parker gets the perfect answer to counter said attack.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
His current SS tells Parker what to do, so if Cass already moves for her strike Parker gets the perfect answer to counter said attack.


RIGHT BUT WOULDNT SHE BE ABLE TO COUNTER HIS COUNTER? wouldnt they cancel each other out?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
yes but i was referring to its applications in actual combat, as i stated in my example of Casssie vs Peter...with all things being equal, my argument is wouldnt they potentially cancel each other out? Since both would pretty much know what the other was planning prior to the engagement, the fight would end up being a series of feints, and potentially end in a standstill Understood. Still, unless Spidey is always within her line-of-sight during combat, I see precog as having the edge.

Here's my question and thoughts on it:

Say character A has precog, and knows that character B is about to punch him. A then tenses in preparation, and prepares to counter.

Character B sees A's slight shift in movement, and decides to kick instead. The future is now changed.

A gets kicked in the crotch.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Here's my question and thoughts on it:

Say character A has precog, and knows that character B is about to punch him. A then tenses in preparation, and prepares to counter.

Character B sees A's slight shift in movement, and decides to kick instead. The future is now changed.

A gets kicked in the crotch.


thats what i was thinking, ive never seen parkers powers work on the scale that he could predict a move to that degree

Originally posted by Sin I AM
thats what i was thinking, ive never seen parkers powers work on the scale that he could predict a move to that degree

Me neither. In fact, I've seen multiple occurrences of the reverse: the spidey-sense goes off, but he has no idea where the attack is going to come from, only that he is in danger.

So, my answer is: I'd take body reading anyday.

I'd read you baby. Like a COMIC BOOK!

That's probably because you folks don't kkep up with him. In his fight with Kaine (spidered out) his SS returned and told him exactly what to do. Kaine was stated to be stronger and faster and it still worked.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
That's probably because you folks don't kkep up with him. In his fight with Kaine (spidered out) his SS returned and told him exactly what to do. Kaine was stated to be stronger and faster and it still worked.


how recent?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
how recent? The finale of Spider-Island so like 2 or 3 issues ago.

EDIT: TBF it could be a 1 issue thing or it will just get ignored or taken as new standard and won't get mentioned anymore.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
The finale of Spider-Island so like 2 or 3 issues ago.

EDIT: TBF it could be a 1 issue thing or it will just get ignored or taken as new standard and won't get mentioned anymore.


which is probably what will happen, just like his stingers etc etc

His stingers are still around apparently. Even Kain has them somehow, they just didnt explain yet why he never uses them. The fight with Morlun, death, resurrection, all that is still canon.

Spider sense always warned him of danger and let it him know where its coming from. That's how he could always fight blindfolded. Its always been that way. But yes there are examples of it being less effective but those are bad showings. And im pretty sure the whole MA/spider sense working together thing isnt going anywhere while Slott is writing ASM.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
That's probably because you folks don't kkep up with him. In his fight with Kaine (spidered out) his SS returned and told him exactly what to do. Kaine was stated to be stronger and faster and it still worked.

It has low and high showings like anything else.

At it's best, it tells him the direction and intensity of an attack, but he usually has to guess at the type. Most of his rogues only beat him by using something new, that he wasn't expecting, and which would never work again...

Originally posted by cdtm
It has low and high showings like anything else.

At it's best, it tells him the direction and intensity of an attack, but he usually has to guess at the type. "At it's best" he was able to track and follow a helicopter through the entire city just getting guided by his SS and he switches to Kung Fu autopilot.

EDIT: I could make an entire thread of how versatile the SS is like Thor's hammer.

Originally posted by cdtm
It has low and high showings like anything else.

At it's best, it tells him the direction and intensity of an attack, but he usually has to guess at the type. Most of his rogues only beat him by using something new, that he wasn't expecting, and which would never work again... Pretty much. Id say that at its best it even "tells" him what kind of attack its gonna be. In one of the older issues he said he "sees" everything around him and proved it by guessing how many fringers MJ was holding behind his back.

Originally posted by SamZED
Pretty much. Id say that at its best it even "tells" him what kind of attack its gonna be. In one of the older issues he said he "sees" everything around him and proved it by guessing how many fringers MJ was holding behind his back.

i remember that, but its a high feat thats hasnt been duplicated

Originally posted by Sin I AM
i remember that, but its a high feat thats hasnt been duplicated Not duplicated exactly. But it has been suggested many times. Spider sense guides him, he "sees" where he should go in order to avoid objects even with his eyes closed, he doesnt need to look when he shoots a webline to attach it to a building in the right angle etc.

Doesn't spider-sense also sometimes warn him of when a loved one is in danger? I seem to remember reading that somewhere.

Spider-Girl / Mayday has even stronger Spidey Sense than Peter, she can use it to tell where foe's weak areas are.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
So, Rose Willson vs Cassandra Cain? Who won that?

Cass.

Rose's precog was limited enough that Cassandra could figure out a way around, because she was able to 'read' that Rose was precoging and found a chink.

I'll note, another precog'r probably wouldn't have figured out that Rose was getting glimpses of the future.



---
Really it does depend on one's level with it. Cassandra is like A+ on body reading and Rose's precog is a B-.

It's hard to know what "x" level body reading means in "y" level precog, but this thread seems like spider sense vs Batgirl's body reading.

Truthfully, we all have the ability to "read bodies" in real life. Fighters do it, interrogators do it, and normal people do it everyday. It's not at the level seen in comic book combat obviously, but I can't see much reason to pick it over actual precognition. Flirting with women is possible without super powers, guys.

Precognition requires very little effort to use, and is always on while giving more benefits in a combat scenario.

I meant to add:

Sin said she wanted a combat scenario, so precog is the easy choice for me. It requires less effort, is automatic, and offers more benefits in a fight. Multiple opponents, no lighting, and environmental dangers are all covered by precognition.

In a direct confrontation though, they'd neutralize each other mostly.

Originally posted by StyleTime
It's hard to know what "x" level body reading means in "y" level precog, but this thread seems like spider sense vs Batgirl's body reading.

Truthfully, we all have the ability to "read bodies" in real life. Fighters do it, interrogators do it, and normal people do it everyday. It's not at the level seen in comic book combat obviously, but I can't see much reason to pick it over actual precognition. Flirting with women is possible without super powers, guys.

Precognition requires very little effort to use, and is always on while giving more benefits in a combat scenario.


well from what ive seen, precog only gives you "possible" outcomes as oppsed to body reading, which shows exactly what a person is doing...the only advantage id see coming from ss is that u dont have to actively see the threat to know its there

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Here's my question and thoughts on it:

Say character A has precog, and knows that character B is about to punch him. A then tenses in preparation, and prepares to counter.

Character B sees A's slight shift in movement, and decides to kick instead. The future is now changed.

A gets kicked in the crotch.

Well you are getting into the reason why seeing the future is impossible in reality.
Since this is comics we must assume it is possible and paradoxes like this don't occur.

Spidey's pre-cog only operates after the intention. Once the intention happens (the switch to activate the attack) then Spidey manuevers. It some cases it is a split second before the movement. That way the enemy can't change. Lastly, if it were possible for the enemy to change then Spidey would still sense the new change and adjust accordingly.

Precog's also been used against him.

Danny Rand set a trap forcing him to leap to avoid it, than hit him in mid air.

Originally posted by cdtm
Precog's also been used against him.

Danny Rand set a trap forcing him to leap to avoid it, than hit him in mid air.

yeah but thats danny rand v.s. spiderman we are talking about 2 equal persons.

Originally posted by Lord Feron
yeah but thats danny rand v.s. spiderman we are talking about 2 equal persons.

Exactly. Rand has what, human level reflexes (am assuming in that scenario, he didn't chi amp his speed).

I'll take the precog. I'm having enough problems dodging cars running stop signs. So being able to sense them would be a big help...

Originally posted by cdtm
Precog's also been used against him.

Danny Rand set a trap forcing him to leap to avoid it, than hit him in mid air.

Well body reading would have gotten the same result. So it wasn't Precog's fault since if he wouldn't have leaped he would have still been in trouble.

Originally posted by h1a8
Well body reading would have gotten the same result. So it wasn't Precog's fault since if he wouldn't have leaped he would have still been in trouble.


how do u figure

Originally posted by Sin I AM
how do u figure

If body reading caused you to jump to avoid an attack then what is the difference if pre-cog caused you to jump to avoid an attack?

But with pre-cog you would know if the attack was 100% genuine. Otherwise the pre-cog wouldn't have triggered an attack warning.


In other words, with pre-cog you can do everything that body reading can do but more. Body reading has 0 advantages over pre-cog yet pre-cog has several advantages over body reading.

Pre-cog is pareto optimal.

Originally posted by h1a8
If body reading caused you to jump to avoid an attack then what is the difference if pre-cog caused you to jump to avoid an attack?

But with pre-cog you would know if the attack was 100% genuine. Otherwise the pre-cog wouldn't have triggered an attack warning.


In other words, with pre-cog you can do everything that body reading can do but more. Body reading has 0 advantages over pre-cog yet pre-cog has several advantages over body reading.

Pre-cog is pareto optimal.


precog is not always accurate, in some cases it shows "possible" outcomes, sometimes characters do this in comics that be forseen or read, like the logan/mr. x fight