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Both combatants are completely blood-lusted and their only goal is to kill their opponent as quickly as possible.

Context: Superman thinks Thor has just raped and murdered Lois and destroyed Metropolis. Thor thinks Superman has just destroyed Asgard and killed and decapitated Odin. There's no changing their mindset for this battle.

So this is a battle where both characters are in a state of EXTREME rage. Both are COMPLETELY BLOOD-LUSTED. No holding back. Who wins?

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/43469/1562747-oct100634.jpg vs http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/58424/1982245-alg_superman.jpg

Superman goes intangible and removes thor's heart./Thread.

Thor wins, the stipulations benefit him more imho.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Thor wins, the stipulations benefit him more imho. briefly describe how you see him winning.

^How so?

Thor stomps.

^Lulz at thor stomping.

Originally posted by Starscream M
briefly describe how you see him winning.

Eventually beating down Superman with Mjolnir and his superior power.

Clark might have a small strength advantage but he can't afford to take everything to the chin like he does with Wonder Woman for example.

^You forgot the massive speed advantage. This is a CIS free superman.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Eventually beating down Superman with Mjolnir and his superior power.
I see it as a short battle though, not a long drawn out one.

I could see them throwing a few punches to feel each other out, and once they get entangled in a grapple, superman unleashes a highly concentrated beam of HV into thor's forehead that lobotomizes him.

Another tactic that superman doesn't use but absolutely can with ease is simply blinding thor at the start of the fight with HV blast to thor's eyes...for superman, its as simple as looking at thors eyes, which Im sure he can do.

Originally posted by abhilegend
^You forgot the massive speed advantage. This is a CIS free superman.

Superman's noticeably faster than Thor in combat terms but it's ultimately irrelevant here from what I've seen. The most use I'd argue he'd make out of it is bull-rushing Thor.

CIS isn't off. They're just both insane with rage. This hinders Superman more than it does Thor because the disparity in power is larger than the one in strength.

Originally posted by Starscream M
I see it as a short battle though, not a long drawn out one.

I could see them throwing a few punches to feel each other out, and once they get entangled in a grapple, superman unleashes a highly concentrated beam of HV into thor's forehead that lobotomizes him.

I highly doubt it.

Get a feel of each other? They didn't just get into an argument here, both of the characters would be completely insane with rage. Not even civilian casualties would matter here anymore. Lol?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Lol?

Honestly, I think Superman's motivation is a bit more potent than Thor's. Superman's love for that woman is pretty goddamn intense. Asgard as a whole would matter more to Thor than Odin would at this point, not that Thor doesn't care for his dad.

That being said, with them being insane with rage, I don't see any thing close resembling exotic attacks or thought out strategies such as those mentioned. I think Thor's power output is a bigger game changer than Superman's strength output, though.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Honestly, I think Superman's motivation is a bit more potent than Thor's. Superman's love for that woman is pretty goddamn intense. Asgard as a whole would matter more to Thor than Odin would at this point, not that Thor doesn't care for his dad.

That being said, with them being insane with rage, I don't see any thing close resembling exotic attacks or thought out strategies such as those mentioned. I think Thor's power output is a bigger game changer than Superman's strength output, though. what do you think about my scenario?

Originally posted by Starscream M
what do you think about my scenario?

Personally, I don't see Superman attempting to lobotomize or blinding Thor with heat vision. I see him charging towards him and unloading with his titanic strength. Would he use heat vision? Sure, he would. But I don't think it would be his primary choice given the fact he's raging pissed off and would probably want to destroy Thor with his bare hands.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Personally, I don't see Superman attempting to lobotomize or blinding Thor with heat vision. I see him charging towards him and unloading with his titanic strength. Would he use heat vision? Sure, he would. But I don't think it would be his primary choice given the fact he's raging pissed off and would probably want to destroy Thor with his bare hands. HV is actually a common tactic of superman when he's pissed...but I see your point about superman wanting to rip thor apart with his hands

And in spite of the image used, this is Pre-Flashpoint Superman, correct?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Superman's noticeably faster than Thor in combat terms but it's ultimately irrelevant here from what I've seen. The most use I'd argue he'd make out of it is bull-rushing Thor.

CIS isn't off. They're just both insane with rage. This hinders Superman more than it does Thor because the disparity in power is larger than the one in strength.
How is that irrelevant? Superman has always used his speed when he is mad. I don't see thor doing well here as he forgets 99% of his powers when he gets mad. You can't ignore superman's speed and hail Thor's use of more powers in same sentence. Thor isn't going to win here by using mjolnir to bash head.

Originally posted by Starscream M
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/58424/1982245-alg_superman.jpg

That looks more like his rape face than RAGE face.

Originally posted by Digi
That looks more like his rape face than RAGE face.

He certainly came close to doing that to Batman in the next issue of Justice League.

Imo...Thor witb Mjlonir hits harder (much harder) than Supermans fist. A pissed Thor is insane. The last two Times we saw this..the people that stood in his way got worked, and.pretty easily at that. I can't see any herald standing up to a angry Thor.

Being perfectly fair to both characters, I don't think an insane Thor could stomp a likewise insane Superman or vice versa.

Originally posted by abhilegend
How is that irrelevant? Superman has always used his speed when he is mad. I don't see thor doing well here as he forgets 99% of his powers when he gets mad. You can't ignore superman's speed and hail Thor's use of more powers in same sentence. Thor isn't going to win here by using mjolnir to bash head.

The one time I've seen Superman enraged in a comparable state, the only thing he used his speed for is something like bull-rushing etc. Basically, all raw power, that's something Thor can deal with just fine.

What are you talking about? I never once said Thor would resort to any exotic abilities. He'd use potentially charged hammer shots, lightning bolts and perhaps an energy blast here or there.

This unfortunately trumps Superman's slight strength advantage if he still possesses it. Personally, I don't think an all out Superman is stronger than a Warrior Madness Thor.

The two are going to try and bash each other to death based on history from what I've seen. This favors Thor.

Thors antiforce could also be usefull and effective in the battle...That is if sm uses his eye beam laser thor could absorb it and redirect it back to sm 10x more powerfull...

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
The one time I've seen Superman enraged in a comparable state, the only thing he used his speed for is something like bull-rushing etc. Basically, all raw power, that's something Thor can deal with just fine.

What are you talking about? I never once said Thor would resort to any exotic abilities. He'd use potentially charged hammer shots, lightning bolts and perhaps an energy blast here or there.

This unfortunately trumps Superman's slight strength advantage if he still possesses it. Personally, I don't think an all out Superman is stronger than a Warrior Madness Thor.

The two are going to try and bash each other to death based on history from what I've seen. This favors Thor.
An enraged superman doesn't forgets that he can avoid attacks. He has used his speed against Elite, imperiex probes, mongul, cyborg superman and many others while enraged. Kal's massive speed advantage trumps thor's EP advantage.

Originally posted by carver9
Imo...Thor witb Mjlonir hits harder (much harder) than Supermans fist. A pissed Thor is insane. The last two Times we saw this..the people that stood in his way got worked, and.pretty easily at that. I can't see any herald standing up to a angry Thor.
Superman's crushed heralds in rage. No one holds more than superman. Anyone thinking thor stomps here is just wishing.

You don't think Superman stomps, do you?

Originally posted by abhilegend
An enraged superman doesn't forgets that he can avoid attacks. He has used his speed against Elite, imperiex probes, mongul, cyborg superman and many others while enraged. Kal's massive speed advantage trumps thor's EP advantage.

The one time I have seen Superman insane with rage as he would be here was during Sacrifice. He'd be less effective under this stipulations then he would be if he was enraged but clear headed.

And no, Superman's speed advantage wouldn't trump Thor's energy projection advantage. Especially if we take into account his versatility (Ultimately irrelevant, as I'm not doing it here).

Originally posted by abhilegend
^How so? How don't they ? Thor is much more deadly all out than Superman.

there's a massive speed advantage for Supes..he takes this..

Originally posted by Starscream M
briefly describe how you see him winning.


this will send thor into the warrior madness mode and he will pummel superman. A non holding back bloodlusted supes is not over powering this version of thor, unless hes sundipped. If supes is this pissed off i see him running up to thor in a all out brawl and if thor is in beserker mode thor snaps off clarks arm faster then you can say WTF. I dont see supes trying to use his speed. And in all honesty supes supeed is the only thing that keeps thor from destroying supes over,and over, and over and over again.

Superman angry is not an effective Superman; it's when he's cold and determined that he's at his best.

Making them angry benefits Thor more than Superman, tbh.

With Bloodlusted going all out and painful power magic......................................

superman get's a can of lighting on his butt

If Thor had Superman's speed and maneuverability them he would stomp Superman 10/10.

But since Superman is a lot faster he wins very easily (no disrepect to Thor btw).

A simple combo to death is eminent.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Superman angry is not an effective Superman; it's when he's cold and determined that he's at his best.

Making them angry benefits Thor more than Superman, tbh. I think you're underestimating superman

Originally posted by Starscream M
I think you're underestimating superman

Why?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Why? enraged superman gets a huge boost from his regular state because he isn't holding back and he is not less effective as Pr claims.

Originally posted by Starscream M
enraged superman gets a huge boost from his regular state because he isn't holding back and he is not less effective as Pr claims.

He's less effective in the sense that he's not thinking clearly and utilizing his abilities in top form, which, going by comics, is true. He won't be counter vibrating or using his senses to the best of his ability or mixing up ice breath and heat vision with melee strikes like a master brawler. He's going to, more than likely, just attempt to beat the shit out Thor with his bare hands.

I still think his motivation ultimately makes him more pissed than Thor, but he won't be as effective as you might think based on similar events.

http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx217/lipton2703/uh654101283121134rs654001283089249godzilla-facepalm-godzilla-facepalm-face-palm-epic-fail-demotivational-poster-1245384435.jpg

@ thread.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
He's less effective in the sense that he's not thinking clearly and utilizing his abilities in top form, which, going by comics, is true. He won't be counter vibrating or using his senses to the best of his ability or mixing up ice breath and heat vision with melee strikes like a master brawler. He's going to, more than likely, just attempt to beat the shit out Thor with his bare hands.
well, neither will thor be clear headed. my point is, superman doesn't get a disadvantage being angry vs thor.

Originally posted by Starscream M
well, neither will thor be clear headed. my point is, superman doesn't get a disadvantage being angry vs thor.

No, Thor won't be clear headed, but the advantages Superman typically enjoys over Thor won't mean much, if anything, in this fight. Thor still boasts greater striking power as well as the added advantage of a magic weapon. That's without factoring in true Warrior's Madness, assuming he enters that state.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
No, Thor won't be clear headed, but the advantages Superman typically enjoys over Thor won't mean much, if anything, in this fight. Thor still boasts greater striking power as well as the added advantage of a magic weapon. That's without factoring in true Warrior's Madness, assuming he enters that state.

Thor's supposedly greater striking power only comes from his mighty slams. He must sit there and whirl the hammer for a while to build up sufficient speed then come down with a slam. Not to disrespect Thor but this is an eternity for Superman. If Thor has any hope of striking Superman then it must be with quick jab like strikes. Superman's strikes>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Thor's jab like hammer strikes.

Thus Thor wouldn't hit harder than Superman. Plus Superman is a lot stronger. But strength doesn't matter more than the speed issue.

Trust me, Thor being not terribly fast like Superman makes things more fair for him in comics. Otherwise he would be unbeatable by any herald.

Originally posted by h1a8
Thor's supposedly greater striking power only comes from his mighty slams. He must sit there and whirl the hammer for a while to build up sufficient speed then come down with a slam. Not to disrespect Thor but this is an eternity for Superman. If Thor has any hope of striking Superman then it must be with quick jab like strikes. Superman's strikes>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Thor's jab like hammer strikes.

Thus Thor wouldn't hit harder than Superman. Plus Superman is a lot stronger. But strength doesn't matter more than the speed issue.

Trust me, Thor being not terribly fast like Superman makes things more fair for him in comics. Otherwise he would be unbeatable by any herald.

No, he doesn't have to do that. He's struck with unbelievable force without going off in his typical tirade like lines of dialogue or fancy mannerisms. He's unleashed powerful torrents of energy and weather manipulation without needless Shakespearean dialogue. Thor doesn't have to do any of that shit in a fight but he does because it looks and sounds cool. Comics support that.

Superman is going to get hit by Thor. That's the reality of the situation. Comics support that as well.

If Thor was given explicit superhuman speed in the vein of Superman, I guaren-f'n-tee you he'd still be in the same tier of power and he wouldn't be this unstoppable herald you think he would be with it. Considering I've read virtually every Thor issue from his various ongoings as well as his appearances in the Avengers and other books, you can trust me when I say that speed isn't this crippling disadvantage to Thor and it wouldn't be this godlike boon for him if he had it, either.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
No, he doesn't have to do that. He's struck with unbelievable force without going off in his typical tirade like lines of dialogue or fancy mannerisms. He's unleashed powerful torrents of energy and weather manipulation without needless Shakespearean dialogue. Thor doesn't have to do any of that shit in a fight but he does because it looks and sounds cool. Comics support that.

Superman is going to get hit by Thor. That's the reality of the situation. Comics support that as well.

If Thor was given explicit superhuman speed in the vein of Superman, I guaren-f'n-tee you he'd still be in the same tier of power and he wouldn't be this unstoppable herald you think he would be with it. Considering I've read virtually every Thor issue from his various ongoings as well as his appearances in the Avengers and other books, you can trust me when I say that speed isn't this crippling disadvantage to Thor and it wouldn't be this godlike boon for him if he had it, either. Thor never struck harder than what Superman is capable of without whirling the hammer first.

Reading comics and knowing logic is two different things. If one is frozen in time (or stuck in slow motion) then he is completely defenseless. Or if one character can move more than 6ft before another can move 1in then the first character is defenseless.

Thor has feats against single attacks from more than 10m away. I can hit a 90mph baseball from 60ft away. But I couldn't hit two coming at me from 5 ft away. And I certainly can't hit 5 coming at me from all angles (on my side, in back of me, etc.). Get my point?

Superman is not going to get hit by Thor if he blitzes him at the bell. He will simply combo him to death (not let up since he's bloodlusted) for the easy win.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
The one time I have seen Superman insane with rage as he would be here was during Sacrifice. He'd be less effective under this stipulations then he would be if he was enraged but clear headed.

And no, Superman's speed advantage wouldn't trump Thor's energy projection advantage. Especially if we take into account his versatility (Ultimately irrelevant, as I'm not doing it here).
That's your opinion and not true at all in relation to how superman fights when angry. This isn't "sacrifice" superman who wasn't thinking clearly, this is elite-crushing, imperiex probes busting, mongul stomping, cyborg superman blitzing superman here. He's by nature a speedster and his first instinct would be to hit thor as hard and as fast as possible. Kal's gonna beat thor into a paste here.

It could happen, sure. Supes blitzing Cyborg Superman during Trial of Superman is one of my favorite blitzing examples, because he's basically speed blitzing another speedster..

But Thor can combo to KO too. He's done it to Gilgamesh, Gladiator, Mangog, and others.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
You don't think Superman stomps, do you?
Not at all. But he wins the majority here. No matter what you think about speed, a pissed speedster is the most dangerous person to deal with. We are talking about speeds just below flash's speed with superman's strength. He has gone through hell, containee bleed and rejected diana for 1000 years for lois. The guy has done impossible things for his love.

Originally posted by Starscream M
I think you're underestimating superman

I think I know Superman better than you do.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I think I know Superman better than you do.

Truth.

Honestly, I see Superman winning this. Say what you will, but that guy's an absolute beast.

Superman takes it, a pissed off superman will have nothing but kill as hard and as FAST as he can his opponent, thor cant handle such speed advantage he just cant, 20 - 30 shots from an all out superman going full speed ready to kill will take thor out of the game like it or not, i have seen thor losing many sluging out fights like the recent one he is not going to tank superman not holding back punches.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I think I know Superman better than you do. I don't dispute that, but that don't mean you ain't underestimating supes.

Originally posted by Starscream M
I don't dispute that, but that don't mean you ain't underestimating supes.

How would I be? He's been made less effective by making him angry, because that's not how the character operates.

Originally posted by -Pr-
How would I be? He's been made less effective by making him angry, because that's not how the character operates. he's also demonstrated to reach much greater power when angry and not holding back that far outweighs his less clear mind (ie against imperiex, and against darkseid, when superman is enraged, he's a beast)

Originally posted by Starscream M
he's also demonstrated to reach much greater power when angry and not holding back that far outweighs his less clear mind (ie against imperiex, and against darkseid, when superman is enraged, he's a beast)

eh, no. He wasn't enraged against Imperiex; in fact it was stated in the comics that when he was clear minded with no emotion whatsoever, he was at his most dangerous.

Against Darkseid, he's done better when he's been calm in almost every fight (Supergirl being the only exception, and even then he wasn't all ragey).

And then there's the Elite. And Ending Battle. Brainiac. Zod. Wonder Woman. J'onn. Despero. Mongul. Dominus, even.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Superman goes intangible and removes thor's heart./Thread.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
he's talking about when superman vibrated so fast he became intangible against DD REX I think...

I thought it was a new power in the reboot. There was some vomit repression involved.

Originally posted by -Pr-
eh, no. He wasn't enraged against Imperiex; in fact it was stated in the comics that when he was clear minded with no emotion whatsoever, he was at his most dangerous. More dangerous, yes. Most dangerous, no. If my memory serves me.

Come on, is speed being equalized or what . If not speedblitz for the win

Superman

Originally posted by paisapower
Come on, is speed being equalized or what . If not speedblitz for the win

Well, the classic rebuttal to that has been multi/omni-directional energy blasts with Mjolnir, or his arguably more effective magical lightning. He's tagged Surfer with both if we need a good yardstick.

Assuming a good fight, no one doubts Kal's speed advantage, but it's always been close due to things like this.

Originally posted by Digi
Well, the classic rebuttal to that has been multi/omni-directional energy blasts with Mjolnir, or his arguably more effective magical lightning. He's tagged Surfer with both if we need a good yardstick.

Assuming a good fight, no one doubts Kal's speed advantage, but it's always been close due to things like this.

Not to mention he can Thor Mjolnir and cause it to home in on a target.

If Thor had to resort to scoring a direct single strike with Mjolnir or a punch and was limited to swinging and hoping he'd hit Superman, it might be more troublesome, but he means of attacking Superman outside of doing that.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Not to mention he can Thor Mjolnir and cause it to home in on a target.

If Thor had to resort to scoring a direct single strike with Mjolnir or a punch and was limited to swinging and hoping he'd hit Superman, it might be more troublesome, but he means of attacking Superman outside of doing that. if we play the could game, then superman can just blast thor's face with HV and blind or kill him instantly

Originally posted by Starscream M
if we play the could game, then superman can just blast thor's face with HV and blind or kill him instantly Thor has ran through hv before. Are you just making things up again and ignoring what these two did against each other.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
More dangerous, yes. Most dangerous, no. If my memory serves me.

well, bar a sundip, obviously.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Thor has ran through hv before. Are you just making things up again and ignoring what these two did against each other.

considering that we don't use jla/avengers on this forum, he doesn't have to refer to it.

Originally posted by -Pr-
well, bar a sundip, obviously.



considering that we don't use jla/avengers on this forum, he doesn't have to refer to it. Fine.I can cite other instances such as WW 219. This is extreme rage so that fight perfectly describes this thread.

Originally posted by Starscream M
if we play the could game, then superman can just blast thor's face with HV and blind or kill him instantly

Lol?

None of what I mentioned is out of character for Thor nor does it fall in line with his more rarer used abilities. The fact of the matter is that Thor's power set and Mjolnir enable him to hit foes faster than him outside of swinging randomly and hoping he just happens to be in the right place at the right time.

What I mentioned is far more reasonable and ultimately likely than Superman killing Thor instantly with heat vision.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Fine.I can cite other instances such as WW 219. This is extreme rage so that fight perfectly describes this thread.

I don't see why it wouldn't.

Originally posted by abhilegend
That's your opinion and not true at all in relation to how superman fights when angry. This isn't "sacrifice" superman who wasn't thinking clearly, this is elite-crushing, imperiex probes busting, mongul stomping, cyborg superman blitzing superman here. He's by nature a speedster and his first instinct would be to hit thor as hard and as fast as possible. Kal's gonna beat thor into a paste here.



You need to go back and re-read the stipulations, that comic is the perfect example as it's the one time I've seen Superman fight in a similar mindset, and he just completely lost it. He thinks Thor destroyed Metropolis, then raped and killed Lois. I think it's a pretty safe bet that he's going to be out of his mind with rage; any type of fancy combat speed application or strategy is out the window. The Imperiex Probes, Mongul, Elite etc. are all irrelevant here ultimately as a result.

Unfortunately, Kal will need to fight smart in order to take on such an enraged Thor but with his reasoning so greatly impaired by grief, he's going to go down.

Lol, Kal isn't beating Thor into paste whatever mindset his in, gtfo here with that shit.

If it comes down to who is going to out brawl who in a pissed state of mind, Thor will come out on top.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Fine.I can cite other instances such as WW 219. This is extreme rage so that fight perfectly describes this thread.

I like Wonder Woman, but that wasn't the most well written fight. The sun didn't even appear to amp him, he's never had to focus on using his super hearing before (It's never switched on and off like Xray vision before..), and if he was using his super hearing, she shouldn't have been able to sneak up on him because he'd hear her heartbeat, or breathing or something..

Not to mention she had time to say a number of lines as Superman was charging at her before throwing her tierra, meaning he wasn't moving at super speed..

Originally posted by cdtm
I like Wonder Woman, but that wasn't the most well written fight. The sun didn't even appear to amp him, he's never had to focus on using his super hearing before (It's never switched on and off like Xray vision before..), and if he was using his super hearing, she shouldn't have been able to sneak up on him because he'd hear her heartbeat, or breathing or something..

Not to mention she had time to say a number of lines as Superman was charging at her before throwing her tierra, meaning he wasn't moving at super speed.. That's your opinion which has nothing at all to do with what happened on panel. This comic is canon your opinion isn't.

Originally posted by quanchi112
That's your opinion which has nothing at all to do with what happened on panel. This comic is canon your opinion isn't.

Spidey beat Firelord on panel too.

Nothing I pointed out is untrue.

Originally posted by cdtm
Spidey beat Firelord on panel too.

Nothing I pointed out is untrue. So ? Are you saying Ww isn't powerful enough to ko/beat Superman ? Really ?

Originally posted by quanchi112
So ? Are you saying Ww isn't powerful enough to ko/beat Superman ? Really ?

I'm saying Sacrifice isn't the story I'd use to prove how an enraged Superman would perform.

And Wonder Woman can hold her own.

Originally posted by cdtm
I'm saying Sacrifice isn't the story I'd use to prove how an enraged Superman would perform.

And Wonder Woman can hold her own. Why ? This is about Superman losing it at Lois' death. You're right totally irrelevant to the thread. Laughs.

Originally posted by quanchi112
That's your opinion which has nothing at all to do with what happened on panel. This comic is canon your opinion isn't.

His interpretation is as valid as yours. Possibly more-so given your record.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Why ? This is about Superman losing it at Lois' death. You're right totally irrelevant to the thread. Laughs.

Ending Battle is also about how Superman would react to Lois's death. And was more true to the character, imo.

But that's neither here nor there: The Wonder Woman/Superman fight in Sacrifice was poorly written, imo. I do think she can compete with him, but not like it happened in that story. Simple as that.

Originally posted by cdtm
I'm saying Sacrifice isn't the story I'd use to prove how an enraged Superman would perform.

And Wonder Woman can hold her own. Also, he was, you know... mind controlled. Not applicable to how Superman would perform really.

Originally posted by -Pr-
His interpretation is as valid as yours. Possibly more-so given your record. That doesn't mean the comic doesn't count. He can have his opinion as I have my opinion or anyone can but according to this writer this is how Superman reacted in this situation. It's canon. My point was it's canon and someone's disagreement doesn't change that.

Originally posted by Juntai
Also, he was, you know... mind controlled. Not applicable to how Superman would perform really.

That too.

Originally posted by quanchi112
That doesn't mean the comic doesn't count. He can have his opinion as I have my opinion or anyone can but according to this writer this is how Superman reacted in this situation. It's canon. My point was it's canon and someone's disagreement doesn't change that.

The writer said that he was out of his mind with grief; that he wasn't fighting smart, and that he was nowhere near as effective as he'd usually be.

What about cdtm's post contradicts that?

Originally posted by cdtm
Ending Battle is also about how Superman would react to Lois's death. And was more true to the character, imo.

But that's neither here nor there: The Wonder Woman/Superman fight in Sacrifice was poorly written, imo. I do think she can compete with him, but not like it happened in that story. Simple as that. Poorly written is your opinion which doesn't change what was written. Anyone can dismiss anything by saying poorly written.

Originally posted by -Pr-
The writer said that he was out of his mind with grief; that he wasn't fighting smart, and that he was nowhere near as effective as he'd usually be.

What about cdtm's post contradicts that? I think seeing Lois die would kind of do that to him. Do you think based off of Superman comics he'd fight intelligently and not be grieving over Lois' rape and death right in front of him ?

Cdmt's post is subjective. He might not like what was written but he has to be objective about it.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Poorly written is your opinion which doesn't change what was written. Anyone can dismiss anything by saying poorly written.

I think seeing Lois die would kind of do that to him. Do you think based off of Superman comics he'd fight intelligently and not be grieving over Lois' rape and death right in front of him ?

Cdmt's post is subjective. He might not like what was written but he has to be objective about it.

Ending Battle is more consistent to the character than Sacrifice was, but then again, he was mind-controlled during Sacrifice, so it can't really be used as evidence anyway.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Ending Battle is more consistent to the character than Sacrifice was, but then again, he was mind-controlled during Sacrifice, so it can't really be used as evidence anyway. Do you think if he saw Lois raped/killed he'd fight intelligently and not be grief stricken ?

Originally posted by -Pr-
Ending Battle

My mind is drawing a blank here. When did this happen?

I'm going to blame this lapse in memory on lack of sleep, I've been up for like 21 hours.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Do you think if he saw Lois raped/killed he'd fight intelligently and not be grief stricken ?

He was made to believe Lois died during Ending Battle, and he wouldn't kill because iirc, he didn't want to insult her memory. Superman is actually pretty solid emotionally. Bruce is his best friend, but he didn't fall apart during FC, did he.

He was mind-controlled AND shown Lois die during Sacrifice, so his reaction isn't going to be that extreme. Probably going to be somewhere in the middle tbh.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
My mind is drawing a blank here. When did this happen?

I'm going to blame this lapse in memory on lack of sleep, I've been up for like 21 hours.

Manchester Black showed him Lois dying to try to get him to kill him, but Superman refused.

Originally posted by -Pr-
He was made to believe Lois died during Ending Battle, and he wouldn't kill because iirc, he didn't want to insult her memory. Superman is actually pretty solid emotionally. Bruce is his best friend, but he didn't fall apart during FC, did he.

He was mind-controlled AND shown Lois die during Sacrifice, so his reaction isn't going to be that extreme. Probably going to be somewhere in the middle tbh.



Manchester Black showed him Lois dying to try to get him to kill him, but Superman refused. Ah ok. I honestly see him all over the map seeing her raped and killed. But him refusing to kill I can totally see him doing.

Either way, a Superman that's emotionally compromised isn't as effective as he could be.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Either way, a Superman that's emotionally compromised isn't as effective as he could be. Do you favor Thor here ?

Originally posted by -Pr-
Either way, a Superman that's emotionally compromised isn't as effective as he could be.

And while the same could be said of Thor...

All Starscream said, is Asgard gets wrecked and Odin dies. If Thor doesn't think he slaughtered the Enchantress and Sif too, somehow I doubt seeing his arsehole father out of the picture again will have as much of an impact.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Do you favor Thor here ?

Yes, as he's not going to be as angry as Superman would be, I think.

Originally posted by cdtm
And while the same could be said of Thor...

All Starscream said, is Asgard gets wrecked and Odin dies. If Thor doesn't think he slaughtered the Enchantress and Sif too, somehow I doubt seeing his arsehole father out of the picture again will have as much of an impact.

Pretty much.

Originally posted by -Pr-
well, bar a sundip, obviously.



considering that we don't use jla/avengers on this forum, he doesn't have to refer to it. That's not what I said. And what you asserted isn't present within the comic.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
That's not what I said. And what you asserted isn't present within the comic.

Hmm?

I think regardless of how angry superman is, he is still very much in control. This is why he never crosses the line of killing someone.

His fight with khyber and a more recent example in DCU Online Legends #15. He accidentally kills Lois because of what Lex and Brainiac have done, sure it p!sses him off royally, but he doesn't kill Lex eventhough he had his hands around his throat. He then goes on a rampage and attacks Brainiac directly and kills him, brainiac turns out to be a clone robot. FS, WW are guessing if sups knew this all along, which he does. During the entire comic, supes was shown to be thinking 2 steps ahead of everyone else and self bfr's himself so that he can come back and beat the sh!t out of brainiac near the end of this arc.

Originally posted by Digi
I thought it was a new power in the reboot. There was some vomit repression involved.

Ah right is it something he does more often and with greater ease since the reboot?

Still I doubt that's all it take to defeat Thor. If it is then Martian Manhunter, Silver Surfer, The Flash and The Vision could all rip Thor's heart out like that..

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Not to mention he can Thor Mjolnir and cause it to home in on a target.




Saved me writing that


Originally posted by Starscream M
if we play the could game, then superman can just blast thor's face with HV and blind or kill him instantly

Assuming Mjolnir does not absorb the blast..

Oh and what would a Godly Lightning blast to Supes eyes do I wonder??

Originally posted by DARTH POWER





Saved me writing that Superman can blitz Thor before he whirls and throws the hammer. If Thor does manage to throw the hammer to home in then Superman rocks him hard (releasing the home) and then combos him to death. Or Superman can just grab Thor at the last minute and let the hammer hit him. He was referring to when Thor is trying to attack with Mjolnir. He can't defend and attack at the same time. It won't hit Supes since Supes will be hitting Thor first, becoming intangible, or simply avoiding the lightning by moving out of the way.

Originally posted by h1a8
Superman can blitz Thor before he whirls and throws the hammer. If Thor does manage to throw the hammer to home in then Superman rocks him hard (releasing the home) and then combos him to death. Or Superman can just grab Thor at the last minute and let the hammer hit him.

You realise even when he whirls Mjolnir, he does not just have to stand there doing nothing.. He can whirl Mjolnir while shooting out Powerful Omnidirectional blasts, before he homes Mjolnir on Superman at which point Mjolnir will rock Supes hard, and possibly bring him close to death


Originally posted by h1a8
He was referring to when Thor is trying to attack with Mjolnir. He can't defend and attack at the same time.

In that case nor can Superman.

Originally posted by h1a8
It won't hit Supes since Supes will be hitting Thor first, becoming intangible, or simply avoiding the lightning by moving out of the way.

You mean It MIGHT not hit Supes, just like Mjolnir MIGHT very well absorb every bit of Heat Vision Supes shoots at him, and MIGHT even shoot Supes Heat Vision back towards Supes multiplied 100 times in power, and MIGHT even add a Blast of Anti-Force on top, and MIGHT even add the Weather of the entire planet attacking Supes all at once.

Sound a bit over the top?? Well he's done all this once. Against Thanos.

^

Thor actually has a feat that combines nearly all of his potent powers in an overwhelming assault both defensive/offensive. What Superman feat is being referenced here again? Barely beating his first Imperiex probe or being no-sold by Doomsday Rex before Doomsday Rex inexplicably transformed into a wuss? Originally posted by h1a8
Superman can blitz Thor before he whirls and throws the hammer. Thor doesn't need to whirl or throw his hammer to shoot a personal Godblast from his own person. I believe this is the true trump card even more than Mjolnir (which he can control remotely btw -- it doesn't have to be thrown/swung).

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
You realise even when he whirls Mjolnir, he does not just have to stand there doing nothing.. He can whirl Mjolnir while shooting out Powerful Omnidirectional blasts, before he homes Mjolnir on Superman at which point Mjolnir will rock Supes hard, and possibly bring him close to death Of course he must stand there. He never did anything different in comics. He can't whirl Mjolnir while shooting out omnidirectional blasts because he hasn't in comics. Superman will lay Thor the moment Thor releases Mjolnir in a throw. Also Superman can grab Thor with superspeed and let Mjlonir hit him instead. Superman can defend and attack at the same time. He can evade and blast with HV or freeze breath. Supes can hit Thor with the HV without him blocking it. All Supes have to do is either get within 5 feet of Thor and then use it (Thor hasn't proven to have light speed reflexes from 5ft but only 30ft or more) or just reappear (speed move) behind Thor in a nanosecond and blast him or just simply multiple attack Thor (punch from all angles around Thor while blasting him with HV).
Supes can even grab Thor's arm at superspeed and make Thor bash himself in the head with the hammer.

This thread is stupid since Supes can make big movements (move more than 6ft) before Thor can make small movements (move 1 inch). There is no defense for Thor here.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^

Thor actually has a feat that combines nearly all of his potent powers in an overwhelming assault both defensive/offensive. What Superman feat is being referenced here again? Barely beating his first Imperiex probe or being no-sold by Doomsday Rex before Doomsday Rex inexplicably transformed into a wuss? Take a pick. Doesn't matter as Superman is far faster than Thor and can vibrate through or evade attacks. Of course Thor doesn't need to whirl the hammer for a Godblast. I was referring to him throwing the hammer at super speeds or slam hitting with mega force. But the Godblast would be the worst thing Thor could do. Superman easily avoids it and hammers Thor hard or Superman just pops Thor before he can form the action of doing it. Thor must throw Mjolnir in order for him to remote control it away from him. Thor remote controlling Mjolnir away from his body without ever throwing it never happened. Plus Thor can't remote control Mjolnir if he is incoherent (getting rocked and koed). That is to say, Supes can rock Thor the moment it's out of his hand. Plus Supes can grab Thor at superspeed and allow Mjolnir to strike Thor in the back of the head at the last minute. Superman is just too fast for Thor.

Originally posted by h1a8
Take a pick. Doesn't matter as Superman is far faster than Thor and can vibrate through or evade attacks.Then Superman can keep himself perpetually intangible as Thor floods his immediate area with magical lightning. I suppose Superman BFRs himself into non-combat. Originally posted by h1a8
Of course Thor doesn't need to whirl the hammer for a Godblast. I was referring to him throwing the hammer at super speeds or slam hitting with mega force. But the Godblast would be the worst thing Thor could do. Superman easily avoids it and hammers Thor hard or Superman just pops Thor before he can form the action of doing it. Thor must throw Mjolnir in order for him to remote control it. Plus Thor can't remote control Mjolnir if he is incoherent (getting rocked and koed). Plus Supes can rock Thor the moment it's out of his hand. Plus Supes can grab Thor at superspeed and allow Mjolnir to strike Thor in the back of the head at the last minute. Superman is just too fast for Thor. It's an AoE attack when projected from his body. Superman would get destroyed like Durok did (moreso since Superman is actually vulnerable to magic) if he got anywhere near it. Thor can remote control Mjolnir if Superman tries to play keep away and if he gets close, Superman gets incinerated. Therefore, Superman would get hit by Mjolnir or Godblastor AoE lightning no matter what. His only chance is to keep himself intangible against everything. So Thor wins via Superman vibrating himself into perpetual non-combat otherwise Superman straight-up loses. Thor has just too many options against Superman.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Then Superman can keep himself perpetually intangible as Thor floods his immediate area with magical lightning. I suppose Superman BFRs himself into non-combat. Actually Supes can pop Thor before this happens or simply use HV to prevent it. Also Thor doesn't really have omnidirectional blasts since there is space between the lightning in which to operate in. Also, the attack has a nice safety area, which lies immediately behind Thor. Superman can easily get there and go to town on Thor if he decides to let Thor pull it off. Thor can't AOE a godblast from his body. Thor can't AOE a godblast from his body and nor can he emit it before Superman pops him. Thor would be literally almost a statue to Superman. Thor doesn't have ANY options against Superman. He is too slow. He can't AOE a godblast from his body nor can he pull it off before Supes hits him or HV him.

Originally posted by h1a8
Actually Supes can pop Thor before this happens or simply use HV to prevent it. Also Thor doesn't really have omnidirectional blasts since there is space between the lightning in which to operate in. Also, the attack has a nice safety area, which lies immediately behind Thor. Superman can easily get there and go to town on Thor if he decides to let Thor pull it off.Sure he could. Thor's reacted faster than thought. You're mistaken. Thor does have omnidirectional blasts. He's done it on-panel. And Superman's HV is useless since Mjolnir has drawn energy into it (Thor doesn't have to manually block energy attacks with it to absorb it). Originally posted by h1a8
Thor can't AOE a godblast from his body.Yes. He can. He's done it on-panel. Originally posted by h1a8
Thor can't AOE a godblast from his body and nor can he emit it before Superman pops him. Thor would be literally almost a statue to Superman.Yes. He can. He's done it on-panel. Thor has FTL reflexes and has reacted faster than thought. Superman might be also but he's not Flash. Originally posted by h1a8
Thor doesn't have ANY options against Superman. He is too slow. He can't AOE a godblast from his body nor can he pull it off before Supes hits him or HV him. Like I said, Superman must stay intangible to avoid being hit by a remote controlled Mjolnir that travels million times FTL, or to avoid being hit by perpetual AoE magical lightning or to avoid being incinerated by an omnidirectional magical Godblast. And Superman's HV is worthless as it would just get absorbed by Mjolnir and likely be projected back at him a hundred-fold.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Sure he could. Thor's reacted faster than thought. You're mistaken. Thor does have omnidirectional blasts. He's done it on-panel. And Superman's HV is useless since Mjolnir has drawn energy into it (Thor doesn't have to manually block energy attacks with it to absorb it). Yes. He can. He's done it on-panel. Yes. He can. He's done it on-panel. Thor has FTL reflexes and has reacted faster than thought. Superman might be also but he's not Flash. Like I said, Superman must stay intangible to avoid being hit by a remote controlled Mjolnir that travels million times FTL, or to avoid being hit by perpetual AoE magical lightning or to avoid being incinerated by an omnidirectional magical Godblast. And Superman's HV is worthless as it would just get absorbed by Mjolnir and likely be projected back at him a hundred-fold. You forget the most important part:

If h1 doesn't like it, it never happened. And I suspect he isn't too fond of everything you said

^ Does that mean if he doesn't like me, I never existed?

You'd better hope to keep on his good side is all I'm saying

Is ODG serious in lowballing superman and highballing thor or is he just baiting h1a8? If we are going cbr route then superman sings thor out of existance in the first nanosecond. Lulz at Thor's FTL reflexes, ODG is obviously basing this on Thor-rachel fight. Classic quicksilver has done the same feat against Exodus in Blood-ties. If we are basing this on one high end feat only, Kal has reflexes "nearly" as fast as professor zoom.

Superman puts Thor in a coma.

Also, the Superfans need to quit with the speed blitz shit.

Thor Wins

Originally posted by h1a8
Of course he must stand there. He never did anything different in comics. He can't whirl Mjolnir while shooting out omnidirectional blasts because he hasn't in comics.

Actually he's shot Lightning blasts without even using Mjolnir. Read more Thor comics.

Originally posted by h1a8
Superman will lay Thor the moment Thor releases Mjolnir in a throw. Also Superman can grab Thor with superspeed and let Mjlonir hit him instead.

Superman will be too busy dodging omnidirectional blasts, and fighting off a thousand thousand hurricanes. How fast is Supes really gna move through a thousand thousand hurricanes, and with godly lightning attacking him from all directions.

Originally posted by h1a8
Superman can defend and attack at the same time. He can evade and blast with HV or freeze breath.

Thor can defend and attack at the same time. He can strike Superman with multiple lightning blasts, while using a thousand thousand hurricanes to stop Superman getting close to him, while Mjolnir can absorb any heat vision Superman dishes out.

Originally posted by h1a8
Supes can hit Thor with the HV without him blocking it.


Not really... He might get the odd 1 second shot in, but wnt get the sustained blast he needs without Mjolnir blocking it.

Originally posted by h1a8
All Supes have to do is either get within 5 feet of Thor and then use it (Thor hasn't proven to have light speed reflexes from 5ft but only 30ft or more) or just reappear (speed move) behind Thor in a nanosecond and blast him or just simply multiple attack Thor (punch from all angles around Thor while blasting him with HV).

That's ridiculous. He has to prove he can react from 5 feet away? Well I dnt knw how many feet exactly but he was no where near 30 feet away when he deflected Gladiator's heat vision. The difference of 25 feet is not gna make a difference to something coming at the speed of light.

Originally posted by h1a8
Supes can even grab Thor's arm at superspeed and make Thor bash himself in the head with the hammer.

Lol. He has to overpower Thor's arm first. Oh and Thor can spin Mjolnir round faster than light, while blasting out lightning from it. That will make it much more difficult for Supes to attack him close range without getting whacked himself.

Thor can also use Mjolnir to spin himself round faster than light, again causing the same problem for Superman.

Originally posted by h1a8
This thread is stupid since Supes can make big movements (move more than 6ft) before Thor can make small movements (move 1 inch). There is no defense for Thor here.



Oh so now Superman is soooo much ahead of Thor that this is just a stupid thread?? Right.

Superman might very well get in the first attack, but its nothing Thor cant take. The guy has taken some serious beatings, by the Hulk, by Celestials, and by Frigging Odin himself.

Actually read some Thor before you call this a stupid thread.

Oh and if anything a blood lusted fight to the death between them is stupid because Thor has the means to kill Superman with his Godblast.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Is ODG serious in lowballing superman and highballing thor or is he just baiting h1a8? If we are going cbr route then superman sings thor out of existance in the first nanosecond. Lulz at Thor's FTL reflexes, ODG is obviously basing this on Thor-rachel fight. Classic quicksilver has done the same feat against Exodus in Blood-ties. If we are basing this on one high end feat only, Kal has reflexes "nearly" as fast as professor zoom. This fight favors Thor no matter how you look at it. An angry Superman isn't an effective or effective as he is when he's calm. Thor wins. He fights better angry and is far more powerful.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Is ODG serious in lowballing superman and highballing thor or is he just baiting h1a8? If we are going cbr route then superman sings thor out of existance in the first nanosecond. Lulz at Thor's FTL reflexes, ODG is obviously basing this on Thor-rachel fight. Classic quicksilver has done the same feat against Exodus in Blood-ties. If we are basing this on one high end feat only, Kal has reflexes "nearly" as fast as professor zoom.

If you really are a fan of Kal-El, then you'd know that h1's view is completely off base and based on nothing outside of arbitrary numbers and ignoring what he doesn't like in comics, assuming he read them to begin with.

We already know he doesn't read Thor.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Is ODG serious in lowballing superman and highballing thor or is he just baiting h1a8? If we are going cbr route then superman sings thor out of existance in the first nanosecond. Lulz at Thor's FTL reflexes, ODG is obviously basing this on Thor-rachel fight. Classic quicksilver has done the same feat against Exodus in Blood-ties. If we are basing this on one high end feat only, Kal has reflexes "nearly" as fast as professor zoom. Or all the other time he deals with light speed attacks. We'll just pretend they never happened. BTW, Quicksilver got wrecked by Exodus in Bloodties via his telepathy. Way to sabotage yourself. As far as I've seen, Superman's so far beneath Flash and Zoom in speed that any comparisons are awful. Superman's best combat speed feats (of which there are more than a few) put him at light speed and above and permit him to fight like a superspeedster (not Flash/Zoom level, mind you). Thor's best reflex speed feats (of which there are a few) put him at light speed and above and permit him to fight off superspeedsters (which he's done several times).

But I get it, apparently, you don't like taking Thor's feats at face value, so they never happened. And of course, the only way you will take Thor's feats at face value is if you're permitted to aggrandize and overgeneralize Superman's feats so Superman still wins. We get it.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Or all the other time he deals with light speed attacks. We'll just pretend they never happened. BTW, Quicksilver got wrecked by Exodus in Bloodties via his telepathy. Way to sabotage yourself. As far as I've seen, Superman's so far beneath Flash and Zoom in speed that any comparisons are awful. Superman's best combat speed feats (of which there are more than a few) put him at light speed and above and permit him to fight like a superspeedster (not Flash/Zoom level, mind you). Thor's best reflex speed feats (of which there are a few) put him at light speed and above and permit him to fight off superspeedsters (which he's done several times).

But I get it, apparently, you don't like taking Thor's feats at face value, so they never happened. And of course, the only way you will take Thor's feats at face value is if you're permitted to aggrandize and overgeneralize Superman's feats so Superman still wins. We get it. thor's speed feats defy the nature of the character...whereas superman's support it

thor recently claimed logan was too fast for him...superman would never say a street leveler is too fast for him.

Originally posted by Starscream M
thor's speed feats defy the nature of the character...whereas superman's support it

thor recently claimed logan was too fast for him...superman would never say a street leveler is too fast for him. So you ignore Thor's other showings against characters far faster than Wolverine ? That's called picking and choosing what counts and what doesn't count.

Originally posted by Starscream M
thor's speed feats defy the nature of the character...whereas superman's support it

thor recently claimed logan was too fast for him...superman would never say a street leveler is too fast for him. Actually, Thor's speed feats build the nature of the character. Just because you have this preconception that Thor is some slow bulky warrior (he isn't) who couldn't possibly deal with speedsters (he does consistently) or who would have no chance against high speed attacks (he consistently deals with telepathy and light speed attacks) doesn't mean his feats are banished. You want to take feats at face value, then do it. Or don't. Go ahead and just be a hypocrite and/or act butt-hurt. Phuck do I care for your arbitrary rationale?

Thor mentioning that Wolverine is faster than he thought is worth about as much as Diana being impressed with Deathstroke. Only difference is, Superman fanboys aren't threatened by Wonder Woman as much as they are by Thor. So they don't keep bringing up the same level of lowball crap when it comes to her.

Originally posted by Starscream M
thor's speed feats defy the nature of the character...whereas superman's support it

thor recently claimed logan was too fast for him...superman would never say a street leveler is too fast for him.

...not really?

Thor's also handled people with speed far faster than Wolverine and has done so consistently. Does that showing invalidate all the other ones because of it being recent? Or does it invalidate his other showings because it was Wolverine?

And yeah, Superman complained about Deathstroke's speed before. As has Wonder Woman. Pretty sure Batgod's speed was impressive to either of them at one point or another, too.

PIS happens when you're a big herald type facing a street or meta for the sake of the plot.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Actually, Thor's speed feats build the nature of the character. Just because you have this preconception that Thor is some slow bulky warrior (he isn't) who couldn't possibly deal with speedsters (he does consistently) or who would have no chance against high speed attacks (he consistently deals with telepathy and light speed attacks) doesn't mean his feats are banished. You want to take feats at face value, then do it. Or don't. Go ahead and just be a hypocrite and/or act butt-hurt. Phuck do I care for your arbitrary rationale?

Thor mentioning that Wolverine is faster than he thought is worth about as much as Diana being impressed with Deathstroke. Only difference is, Superman fanboys aren't threatened by Wonder Woman as much as they are by Thor. So they don't keep bringing up the same level of lowball crap when it comes to her. what the damn hell does who diana is impressed by affect superman? if you have superman being flustered by deathstrokes speed, that'd be relevant...

and I don't think thor is a slow buffoon, but I hardly put him on the lightspeed tier as a superman.

Originally posted by Starscream M
what the damn hell does who diana is impressed by affect superman? if you have superman being flustered by deathstrokes speed, that'd be relevant...

and I don't think thor is a slow buffoon, but I hardly put him on the lightspeed tier as a superman.

Because Diana's combat reflexes and skills are generally superior to that Superman's?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Because Diana's combat reflexes and skills are generally superior to that Superman's? when did she show her reflexes to be superior? skill is arguable, but I always thought superman had better speed reflexes

Originally posted by Starscream M
when did she show her reflexes to be superior? skill is arguable, but I always thought superman had better speed reflexes So skill is arguable when talking about WW and Superman yet reflexes isn't. Do you know who WW is ?

Originally posted by quanchi112
So skill is arguable when talking about WW and Superman yet reflexes isn't. Do you know who WW is ? yes, skill is much more subjective a matter than speed.

Originally posted by Starscream M
yes, skill is much more subjective a matter than speed. Speed and reflexes aren't the same thing. It's all subjective anyways.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Speed and reflexes aren't the same thing. It's all subjective anyways. they're related imo

Originally posted by Starscream M
they're related imo Related sure but someone can be faster in terms of raw speed and better reflexes in terms of combat.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Related sure but someone can be faster in terms of raw speed and better reflexes in terms of combat. sure, but what has diana done to demosntrate she has better reflexes than superman?

Originally posted by Starscream M
sure, but what has diana done to demosntrate she has better reflexes than superman? Defend herself against his speed time and time again. The problem is he's fast enough to tag her and his power is greater than hers along with his durability.

She relies on her skill and reflexes far more often than Superman who is durable enough to trade blows or tank attacks. This is how these characters are generally portrayed. Superman's no slouch in terms of reflexes it's just WW is slightly better.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Or all the other time he deals with light speed attacks. We'll just pretend they never happened. BTW, Quicksilver got wrecked by Exodus in Bloodties via his telepathy. Way to sabotage yourself. As far as I've seen, Superman's so far beneath Flash and Zoom in speed that any comparisons are awful. Superman's best combat speed feats (of which there are more than a few) put him at light speed and above and permit him to fight like a superspeedster (not Flash/Zoom level, mind you). Thor's best reflex speed feats (of which there are a few) put him at light speed and above and permit him to fight off superspeedsters (which he's done several times).

But I get it, apparently, you don't like taking Thor's feats at face value, so they never happened. And of course, the only way you will take Thor's feats at face value is if you're permitted to aggrandize and overgeneralize Superman's feats so Superman still wins. We get it.
So tell me what feats does thor posses that prove he's lightspeed fast? Digging a trench or reacting to gladiator or reacting to surfer? Don't bring up "whirling mjolnir at bazillion times lightspeed", that so many thor fans likes to show. Quicksilver evaded the mental bolt of Exodus, so whether exodus beat him or not is moot. I think wolverine has also done some things like that, I am not sure though. Actually majority of time superman is just under the speed of flash unless you can show me some other speedster becoming intangible and has done things with speed not even flashes have done (vibrating an entire planet to another dimension, travelling lightyears in minutes). You are wrong, bizzaro has stalemated Zoom in footrace and Kal stopped Professor zoom in mid blitz after which Thawne admitted that his reflexes are nearly same to his own. He has also reacted and identified Barry while he was going at top speed in final crisis. But to you all of that is PIS, isn't it? If you are trying to prove superman and thor are in the same speed department, at least try to know superman's feats. I get it, you have tried to convince everyone for years that Thor is a speedster, good luck with that.

Originally posted by abhilegend
So tell me what feats does thor posses that prove he's lightspeed fast? Digging a trench or reacting to gladiator or reacting to surfer? Don't bring up "whirling mjolnir at bazillion times lightspeed", that so many thor fans likes to show. Quicksilver evaded the mental bolt of Exodus, so whether exodus beat him or not is moot. I think wolverine has also done some things like that, I am not sure though. Actually majority of time superman is just under the speed of flash unless you can show me some other speedster becoming intangible and has done things with speed not even flashes have done (vibrating an entire planet to another dimension, travelling lightyears in minutes). You are wrong, bizzaro has stalemated Zoom in footrace and Kal stopped Professor zoom in mid blitz after which Thawne admitted that his reflexes are nearly same to his own. He has also reacted and identified Barry while he was going at top speed in final crisis. But to you all of that is PIS, isn't it? If you are trying to prove superman and thor are in the same speed department, at least try to know superman's feats. I get it, you have tried to convince everyone for years that Thor is a speedster, good luck with that.

He's not saying Thor is a speedster or is in the same speed department as Superman.

He's saying that Thor has reflexes and feats to suggest him hitting Superman, which he does.

There's nothing crazy about that. Fact of the matter is that Superman isn't going to be an touchable blur to Thor, which is what some people, like h1, think.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Actually, Thor's speed feats build the nature of the character. Just because you have this preconception that Thor is some slow bulky warrior (he isn't) who couldn't possibly deal with speedsters (he does consistently) or who would have no chance against high speed attacks (he consistently deals with telepathy and light speed attacks) doesn't mean his feats are banished. You want to take feats at face value, then do it. Or don't. Go ahead and just be a hypocrite and/or act butt-hurt. Phuck do I care for your arbitrary rationale?

Thor mentioning that Wolverine is faster than he thought is worth about as much as Diana being impressed with Deathstroke. Only difference is, Superman fanboys aren't threatened by Wonder Woman as much as they are by Thor. So they don't keep bringing up the same level of lowball crap when it comes to her.
LOL at butthurt in this post considering it was replied to a poster who I think reads even less comics than h1a8 and carver if that's possible.

Thor owns.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
He's not saying Thor is a speedster or is in the same speed department as Superman.

He's saying that Thor has reflexes and feats to suggest him hitting Superman, which he does.

There's nothing crazy about that. Fact of the matter is that Superman isn't going to be an touchable blur to Thor, which is what some people, like h1, think.
You would never find me telling that Thor can't hit Kal jake, but to claim that Superman and thor are in the same speed class is frankly ridiculous and ignoring thor's character as a whole. I already ridiculed h1a8 many times and starscream is just a buffon trying to be important.

Originally posted by abhilegend
to claim that Superman and thor are in the same speed class is frankly ridiculous and ignoring thor's character as a whole.

Originally posted by abhilegend
You would never find me telling that Thor can't hit Kal jake, but to claim that Superman and thor are in the same speed class is frankly ridiculous and ignoring thor's character as a whole. I already ridiculed h1a8 many times and starscream is just a buffon trying to be important.

He's not, though. He's saying that Thor has the feats to suggest he can both attack and defend against Superman, which he does. Nothing he's mentioned is ignoring Thor's character, really. He's not designed to be the archetypical flying brick like Superman, but he does have the means to engage those beings on even ground and beat them. When people try to act stupid and showcase Mongoose or Wolverine troubling Thor like the norm, it's usually an attempt to play up these speed disadvantage Thor apparently has....except, in the context of comics, it really doesn't exist nearly to the degree that people think it does.

No argument concerning h1 and Starscream.

Originally posted by abhilegend
You would never find me telling that Thor can't hit Kal jake, but to claim that Superman and thor are in the same speed class is frankly ridiculous and ignoring thor's character as a whole. I already ridiculed h1a8 many times and starscream is just a buffon trying to be important. He said Superman was in the light speed class, and Thor was in the light speed reflex class...

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
He said Superman was in the light speed class, and Thor was in the light speed reflex class...
So are you claiming that Thor would have no problems with superman's speed?

Originally posted by abhilegend
So are you claiming that Thor would have no problems with superman's speed? I didn't make any claims. Just telling you what someone else said

Hmmm, has Thor ever been shot by bullets? Is Superman faster than a speeding bullet? As a sock troll I obviously don't know much about comics. Can someone who does answer these interesting questions. :-)

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
He's not, though. He's saying that Thor has the feats to suggest he can both attack and defend against Superman, which he does. Nothing he's mentioned is ignoring Thor's character, really. He's not designed to be the archetypical flying brick like Superman, but he does have the means to engage those beings on even ground and beat them. When people try to act stupid and showcase Mongoose or Wolverine troubling Thor like the norm, it's usually an attempt to play up these speed disadvantage Thor apparently has....except, in the context of comics, it really doesn't exist nearly to the degree that people think it does.

No argument concerning h1 and Starscream.
They are thor's high end speed feats and mongoose, wolverine, spidey are low end feats. I am not going to claim that either are PIS. Thor has too many low showings and the lack of a definitive speed level for him doesn't help either. I think that Thor has enough reflexes to hit speedsters but he isn't going to do it everytime he tries. Speedsters would always hold an edge against him, smaller in case of someone like gladiator and larger in case of someone like Kal.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
He said Superman was in the light speed class, and Thor was in the light speed reflex class...

yep

Some of the posters here seem to put speed in 1 category saying you either have it or you dnt, whilst comics tend toput speed in a few different categories:

1) Travel speed
2) Movement
3) Reflexes and reaction time

The combination of these seem to make combat speed.

Thor seems to have 1 and 3 on the level of speedsters (still not as fast as Superman in these categories, but fast enough to fight him) but not 2.

But then he has all sorts of exotic, multi-directional and even light speed attacks (like energy blasts) to substitute well enough for 2.

.

Originally posted by abhilegend
They are thor's high end speed feats and mongoose, wolverine, spidey are low end feats. I am not going to claim that either are PIS. Thor has too many low showings and the lack of a definitive speed level for him doesn't help either. I think that Thor has enough reflexes to hit speedsters but he isn't going to do it everytime he tries. Speedsters would always hold an edge against him, smaller in case of someone like gladiator and larger in case of someone like Kal.

So what are Thor's average showings of speed feats if those mentioned are his high end ones? Curious as to know where you would place him in that regard. He's not going to hit Superman every time he tries, no, but Superman isn't going to dodge everything either. Just like a typical fight against two evenly matched foes. Depends on the speedster, too. They'll hold an edge when it comes to sheer speed, but Thor can effect wide areas of the environment at once, attack in multiple directions, and has the ability to home in on a target.

The edge that speedsters have isn't as big as you might think because of the edges Thor himself brings to the table.

.

Originally posted by abhilegend
So are you claiming that Thor would have no problems with superman's speed?

Of course he would have. Superman's faster than most speedsters even. And it will be Supes biggest advantage over Thor. But its not like h1a8 and starscream make out, as in just puts him out of Thor's league, and will make this a 5 second KO.

Thor can't outrun a missile? Smells like PIS, or a writer that doesn't know Thor.

Originally posted by cdtm
Thor can't outrun a missile? Smells like PIS, or a writer that doesn't know Thor.

Did you see all the bullets hitting him whilst on the ground..... and Thor saying they'd bring him out in welts? Thor is such a girl, seriously, he is even hyperbolic and emo about getting hurt.

Originally posted by cdtm
Thor can't outrun a missile? Smells like PIS, or a writer that doesn't know Thor.



He has feats which shit on bullets.