Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

No exploitation of Superman's weakness to red sunlight or kryptonite.

Who wins?

Superman.

Surfer.

Superman.

Surfer. He is just overall more powerful.

Surfer..he's more versatile and powerful overall..

Surfer. More powerful and more durable.

It could go either way, imo.

And really, to be fair to Surfer, he doesn't need to rely on weakness exploitation to cement a victory over Superman. He's powerful enough to damage him without doing so. All in all, Surfer likely sets the pace for the fight. If he just runs and guns, like he does so a vast majority of the time, I see Kal pushing through his offense and beating him. If he becomes forum mode (rolleyes) Surfer, Kal gets wasted. Good fight.

I've never bought the Surfer "uses cosmic awareness to detect red sun radiation weakness" argument anyway. Having said that, I've read just about every Supes appearance since the reboot and I've seen nothing that puts him in Norrin's league. Surfer crushes him. For now anyway.

surfer the majority but could go either way i guess....

Just out of curiousity, what has Supes done currently that makes ppl think it could go either way?

I don't think people are taking DCnU Superman into account per this thread. I, for one, assumed it was pre-reboot.

Same here.

yeah @ star scream which superman are you referring to in this battle against ss ?

surfer>supes>thor>surfer>supes>thor etc.

Per forum rules I thought we use the current versions unless otherwise stated. If in fact we're talking pre reboot, I actually favor Supes for the slight majority tbh.

Pre reboot: Superman.
Post reboot: Surfer.

imo.

Superman.

Could Superman replicate the moves that the Runner did when he, well you know....?

Split. Surfer will have trouble with Supes strength. Supes will have trouble with Surfer's Versatility advantage.

Dnt know about reboot Supes though.

Originally posted by Simbon
surfer>supes>thor>surfer>supes>thor etc.



They are the 3 big guns.

Originally posted by carver9
Surfer. He is just overall more powerful.

You seem to rank a lot of people above Dc's most powerful hero..

First a new Surfer vs Thor thread.
Now a new Superman vs Surfer thread.
I guess a new Thor vs Superman thread can't be far behind.

Anyway, these two are my favorite characters...and I give Surfer the win with ranged/energy attacks, Superman the edge with close-quarters/fisticuffs (a smaller win-margain than Surfer's because Supes would have to get through Surfer's attacks and defenses).

Edge To Superman!!!

Originally posted by Simbon
surfer>supes>thor>surfer>supes>thor etc.

Originally posted by TheHulk


?

Originally posted by -Pr-
? what???

Originally posted by TheHulk
what???

Why the face. Superman beats Thor who beats Surfer who beats Superman is one of the most widely held beliefs on this forum.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Why the face. Superman beats Thor who beats Surfer who beats Superman is one of the most widely held beliefs on this forum. On this forum but does not mean it's true but i seriously think Thor edge it with Superman.

Originally posted by Simbon
surfer>supes>thor>surfer>supes>thor etc.

Originally posted by TheHulk
On this forum but does not mean it's true but i seriously think Thor edge it with Superman.

That's your prerogative; you wouldn't be the only one.

Still wrong though. biscuits

Originally posted by -Pr-
That's your prerogative; you wouldn't be the only one.

Still wrong though. biscuits nope

Originally posted by TheHulk
On this forum but does not mean it's true but i seriously think Thor edge it with Superman.

You're wrong as usual. You are going in the same path as carver, I see.mmm








biscuits

^ He's actually right this time

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
^ He's actually right this time

About what, darth?

Originally posted by Starscream M
No exploitation of Superman's weakness to red sunlight


Tbh Im not sure if that's weakness exploitation, or just a versatility advantage.. I mean if you're talking about Surfer draining Supes of Solar energy, and transmuting the sun to red to cut him off from his power source..

Originally posted by abhilegend
About what, darth?

Thor edging Supes..

Originally posted by abhilegend
About what, darth?

Thor not losing to a speedblitz.

Personally, I think Supes edges out Thor even without a blitz though.. Mainly because Thor tends to brawl as much as Supes tends not to use his speed, and imo Supes is a little bit better at it.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Tbh Im not sure if that's weakness exploitation, or just a versatility advantage.. I mean if you're talking about Surfer draining Supes of Solar energy, and transmuting the sun to red to cut him off from his power source..



Thor edging Supes..
I always called bull on cosmic awareness of surfer finding superman's weakness, he's not Genis. Thor doesn't edges out superman, both surfer and thor are peers of superman because of his weaknesses. He has done things and faced beings likes of which thor and surfer can't even dream of. Thor doesn't has an answer for superman's speed, this isn't gladiator you're dealing with darth.

Originally posted by abhilegend
He has done things and faced beings likes of which thor and surfer can't even dream of.

Don't get carried away, now.

Originally posted by abhilegend
I always called bull on cosmic awareness of surfer finding superman's weakness, he's not Genis. Thor doesn't edges out superman, both surfer and thor are peers of superman because of his weaknesses. He has done things and faced beings likes of which thor and surfer can't even dream of. Thor doesn't has an answer for superman's speed, this isn't gladiator you're dealing with darth.

Hey, Thor's knocked around Mangog before. He's faced plenty of high end threats. But as far as super speed goes:


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/CDTM3000/ManOfSteel52p19.jpg

That's a Byrne era Superman character Supes just blitzed.

The real danger of facing a speedster isn't the multi hit blitz, it's that first hit. That's all it takes, one good hit to stun, and the rest to keep him stunned and reeling, like he did against Massacre..

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Don't get carried away, now. its true jake, neither of them ever faced a creature like HP DD for one

Originally posted by Starscream M
its true jake, neither of them ever faced a creature like HP DD for one Thor's faced worse than DD. Surfer has faced worse than DD as well. Come on, bruce.

Originally posted by Starscream M
its true jake, neither of them ever faced a creature like HP DD for one

They've both faced worse than HP DD. Superman himself has faced worse than HP DD.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Don't get carried away, now.
I am not joking. When thor and surfer sing out an entity which was dragging multiverse down with it and punch out from inside of his own death's avatar (Superman:where is thy sting) tell me about it. Comics superman>>>>forum superman.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Thor's faced worse than DD. Surfer has faced worse than DD as well. Come on, bruce.

Mangog? Kurse? Uni Lord? WOL Morg? Tyrant?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
They've both faced worse than HP DD. Superman himself has faced worse than HP DD. like who?

Originally posted by abhilegend
I am not joking. When thor and surfer sing out an entity which was dragging multiverse down with it and punch out from inside of his own death's avatar (Superman:where is thy sting) tell me about it. Comics superman>>>>forum superman.

baka

It would help if you knew everything that Thor and Surfer have done as well, just so you know.

Originally posted by Starscream M
like who?

Mangog, Galactus, Celestials, Infinity (crazed Odin), Thanos, Surtur, Ymir, Uni-Lord, T & A, etc.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Mangog, Galactus, Celestials, Infinity (crazed Odin), Thanos, Surtur, Ymir, Uni-Lord, T & A, etc. guess what, wolverine faced a majority of those villains too, does that make him on par with superman now?

Straight up trolling

Originally posted by Starscream M
guess what, wolverine faced a majority of those villains too, does that make him on par with superman now?

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Straight up trolling

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
baka

It would help if you knew everything that Thor and Surfer have done as well, just so you know.
I know about their high end feats, jake and I even give surfer 6-6.5/10 against superman and Thor an even split against superman but with his weaknesses removed he would pummel both. Most of his low showings are with his weaknesses. He has the most insane durability showings on herald levels.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
neither thor nor surfer ever had a foe as daunting as what dd represented to superman

Originally posted by Starscream M
neither thor nor surfer ever had a foe as daunting as what dd represented to superman

Superman has had villains more daunting to him than what DD represented back then.

Is starscream serious or is he just trolling?

Originally posted by abhilegend
I am not joking. When thor and surfer sing out an entity which was dragging multiverse down with it and punch out from inside of his own death's avatar (Superman:where is thy sting) tell me about it. Comics superman>>>>forum superman. Context, please go find it.

Originally posted by abhilegend
I know about their high end feats, jake and I even give surfer 6-6.5/10 against superman and Thor an even split against superman but with his weaknesses removed he would pummel both. Most of his low showings are with his weaknesses. He has the most insane durability showings on herald levels.

If you knew about their high end feats, you wouldn't say Superman has done and faced things they can't even dream of because they have. They've also done things that Superman cannot just like Superman has done things they can't.

Funny, because I don't factor in Surfer or Thor exploiting Superman's weaknesses at all when I consider them beating him. Surfer's powerful enough to damage Superman without exploiting Kryptonite or red solar energy, which, to be frank, I don't see him resorting to typically, anyway. Thor's also powerful enough to damage Kal and I don't think the magic aspect of Thor's offensive capabilities would utterly decimate him, save something extreme and out of the norm like a Godblast.

Case in point, neither of them need to resort to exploiting Superman's weaknesses to hurt him or even beat him.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Superman has had villains more daunting to him than what DD represented back then. who?

Originally posted by Starscream M
who?

Darkseid, Dominus and even Lex have represented graver threats to Superman on a psychological level than DD did.

Physically, there's still Darkseid and the likes of Imperiex.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank


Funny, because I don't factor in Surfer or Thor exploiting Superman's weaknesses at all when I consider them beating him. Surfer's powerful enough to damage Superman without exploiting Kryptonite or red solar energy, which, to be frank, I don't see him resorting to typically, anyway. Thor's also powerful enough to damage Kal and I don't think the magic aspect of Thor's offensive capabilities would utterly decimate him, save something extreme and out of the norm like a Godblast.
I also generally don't factor in weakness exploit as I don't think they would use it.

I would say superman beat surfer because he is a better fighter, and stronger and more durable.

and he would win majority against thor due to a much superior speed advantage.

Energy Eradicator outclassed him more than DD.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Darkseid, Dominus and even Lex have represented graver threats to Superman on a psychological level than DD did. I don't remember superman ever being scared of lex or ds as much as he was of dd, of course you have read more than me, so maybe you're right. my impression was that dd was superman's ultimate foe, the only one to have 'killed' him.

Originally posted by Starscream M
I don't remember superman ever being scared of lex or ds as much as he was of dd, of course you have read more than me, so maybe you're right. my impression was that dd was superman's ultimate foe, the only one to have 'killed' him.

At the time, he was. Fifteen years ago. Times change.

Even Brainiac could be considered to be a bigger threat nowadays, considering what he did to Superman's people and his family.

Originally posted by Starscream M
I also generally don't factor in weakness exploit as I don't think they would use it.

I would say superman beat surfer because he is a better fighter, and stronger and more durable.

and he would win majority against thor due to a much superior speed advantage.

Your views aren't extreme, either; I have no problem with someone arguing Kal getting a slight majority over Thor or Surfer. But any one thinking more than 6-6.5/10 is deluding themselves and ignoring what Thor and Surfer can do and have done on panel.

Personally, I don't think Superman's speed is conventionally this damning advantage over Thor. *shrug* It's enough to give him an edge and is definitely an advantage in the sense that it's something he has that Thor doesn't, but given Thor's own reaction feats/skills and his means of attacks, it's not insurmountable.

Originally posted by Starscream M
I don't remember superman ever being scared of lex or ds as much as he was of dd, of course you have read more than me, so maybe you're right. my impression was that dd was superman's ultimate foe, the only one to have 'killed' him. Superman was only scared of him in the one arc iirc. That doesn't mean he's Superman's greatest/most powerful threat. The guy is laughable up against Surfer/Thor/Superman's big time villains.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Superman was only scared of him in the one arc iirc. That doesn't mean he's Superman's greatest/most powerful threat. The guy is laughable up against Surfer/Thor/Superman's big time villains.

Let's not get carried away.

Originally posted by Starscream M
I don't remember superman ever being scared of lex or ds as much as he was of dd, of course you have read more than me, so maybe you're right. my impression was that dd was superman's ultimate foe, the only one to have 'killed' him.

Superman's scared of Lex in the sense that he represents the worse aspects of humanity.

Originally posted by quanchi112
SThe guy is laughable up against Surfer/Thor/Superman's big time villains.

He has a laundry list of feats, including against Supes himself, that say otherwise.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Let's not get carried away. He's laughable up against Tenebrous and Aegis or the Serpent or Galactus or Surtur. DD is an outright joke to these guys all at their best.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
If you knew about their high end feats, you wouldn't say Superman has done and faced things they can't even dream of because they have. They've also done things that Superman cannot just like Superman has done things they can't.

Funny, because I don't factor in Surfer or Thor exploiting Superman's weaknesses at all when I consider them beating him. Surfer's powerful enough to damage Superman without exploiting Kryptonite or red solar energy, which, to be frank, I don't see him resorting to typically, anyway. Thor's also powerful enough to damage Kal and I don't think the magic aspect of Thor's offensive capabilities would utterly decimate him, save something extreme and out of the norm like a Godblast.

Case in point, neither of them need to resort to exploiting Superman's weaknesses to hurt him or even beat him.
I agree that they don't need to use weakness exploitation to beat Kal. They can but not for a majority. I may have spoken some overzealous words, but superman has done things that I don't see thor or surfer doing and now when I think about it the opposite is also true. I think that's why they're peers.

Originally posted by cdtm
He has a laundry list of feats, including against Supes himself, that say otherwise. Are you being serious ?

Originally posted by quanchi112
He's laughable up against Tenebrous and Aegis or the Serpent or Galactus or Surtur. DD is an outright joke to these guys all at their best.

Those guys aren't rogues; they're to Thor or Surfer what Dominus or The Source was to Superman.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Superman's scared of Lex in the sense that he represents the worse aspects of humanity. lol thats an interesting take

lex isn't even that evil to be honest...joker is prob far worse than lex in regards to the worse aspects of humanity

Originally posted by Starscream M
lol thats an interesting take

lex isn't even that evil to be honest...joker is prob far worse than lex in regards to the worse aspects of humanity

It depends on how you look at it. Do you fear the insane mind, the one that is directionless unless you're Batman? Or the sane, completely rational guy who can justify anything and can make your life a living hell just to spite you?

The guy became President, all because he was jealous of Superman.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Are you being serious ?

Taking his history as a whole.

Granted, DOS Superman is small potatoes, but Doomsday Wars and HP Doomsday are impressive.

However, taking Darkseids history as a whole, he craps all over even high end DD..

Originally posted by Starscream M
lol thats an interesting take

lex isn't even that evil to be honest...joker is prob far worse than lex in regards to the worse aspects of humanity

It is.

And according to Batman in Public Enemies, the evil that Lex Luthor dabbles in dwarfs the evil the Joker does. Joker may or may not be responsible for his actions (personally, my theory is that Joker isn't crazy at all and knows exactly why he does the things he does and is fully aware that they're wrong), but Lex Luthor justifies his evil for "humanity" and blames his failings and those of humanity on Superman. The fact that he was legitimately voted into office as President was probably one of the greatest victories for Luthor of all time, and for Kal, one of his lowest moments.

Two different kind of evils to be sure, but Lex's brand of evil affects on a grander scale than the Joker's a majority of the time.

Originally posted by -Pr-
It depends on how you look at it. Do you fear the insane mind, the one that is directionless unless you're Batman? Or the sane, completely rational guy who can justify anything and can make your life a living hell just to spite you?

The guy became President, all because he was jealous of Superman.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Those guys aren't rogues; they're to Thor or Surfer what Dominus or The Source was to Superman. Surtur is a Thor rogue. He always has been. He's way too powerful for Thor to take on by himself outside other factors just like Dominus is well beyond Superman. I didn't say any Thor/Surfer peers I said enemies. Surfer also took down Tenebrous and Aegis on his own through plot device. DD is formidable against Surfer/Thor/Superman but up against their greatest enemies/threats he's a joke.

Just like he's a joke to Superman's greatest threats. All these heroes needed outside help/plot devicey kind of stuff to even have a chance.

Originally posted by -Pr-
It depends on how you look at it. Do you fear the insane mind, the one that is directionless unless you're Batman? Or the sane, completely rational guy who can justify anything and can make your life a living hell just to spite you?

The guy became President, all because he was jealous of Superman. well, in lex's mind, superman is bad for humanity...so he isn't destroying superman for shits and giggles but rather to empower humanity against the rise and dependency of metas

lex is in some ways an antihero villain...his motivations are not pure evil

Originally posted by cdtm
Taking his history as a whole.

Granted, DOS Superman is small potatoes, but Doomsday Wars and HP Doomsday are impressive. Yes, impressive but a joke compared to higher end Thor/Surfer/Superman threats.

Originally posted by Starscream M
well, in lex's mind, superman is bad for humanity...so he isn't destroying superman for shits and giggles but rather to empower humanity against the rise and dependency of metas

lex is in some ways an antihero villain...his motivations are not pure evil Not evil for evil's sake but self motivated and completely selfish which is evil.

If you go by D&D alignments, Lex would most likely be Lawful Evil where as Joker would be Chaotic Evil. Darkseid would probably be Neutral Evil.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
If you go by D&D alignments, Lex would most likely be Lawful Evil where as Joker would be Chaotic Evil. Darkseid would probably be Neutral Evil.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Surtur is a Thor rogue. He always has been. He's way too powerful for Thor to take on by himself outside other factors just like Dominus is well beyond Superman. I didn't say any Thor/Surfer peers I said enemies. Surfer also took down Tenebrous and Aegis on his own through plot device. DD is formidable against Surfer/Thor/Superman but up against their greatest enemies/threats he's a joke.

Just like he's a joke to Superman's greatest threats. All these heroes needed outside help/plot devicey kind of stuff to even have a chance.

Methinks that we have different opinions on what constitutes a rogue.

Originally posted by Starscream M
well, in lex's mind, superman is bad for humanity...so he isn't destroying superman for shits and giggles but rather to empower humanity against the rise and dependency of metas

lex is in some ways an antihero villain...his motivations are not pure evil

Except that Lex's "motivations" have been shown to be pure bullshit. He's an evil pr*ck, pure and simple. That diner scene with the waitress exemplifies him perfectly.

He's not an anti-hero in the slightest; not like say, Magneto.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
If you go by D&D alignments, Lex would most likely be Lawful Evil where as Joker would be Chaotic Evil. Darkseid would probably be Neutral Evil.

Mmm..

Lex breaks his word all the time, though. Lobo's actually closer to lawful evil, because once he makes a deal, he usually keeps it.

Originally posted by cdtm
Mmm..

Lex breaks his word all the time, though. Lobo's actually closer to lawful evil, because once he makes a deal, he usually keeps it.

Conventionally, he does keeps his word and does have a sense of (self-serving) honor, but there's usually a catch 22 involved.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Except that Lex's "motivations" have been shown to be pure bullshit. He's an evil pr*ck, pure and simple. That diner scene with the waitress exemplifies him perfectly.

He's not an anti-hero in the slightest; not like say, Magneto. lol...what was the dinner scene?

Originally posted by -Pr-


Except that Lex's "motivations" have been shown to be pure bullshit. He's an evil pr*ck, pure and simple. That diner scene with the waitress exemplifies him perfectly.

He's not an anti-hero in the slightest; not like say, Magneto.

Morrison did Lex best in All Star Superman, even if that's not canon Lex.

Not like, say, Red Son or War of the Worlds Lex, where he is an anti hero.

Originally posted by Starscream M
lol...what was the dinner scene?

Ever see Indecent Proposal?

Originally posted by cdtm
Morrison did Lex best in All Star Superman, even if that's not canon Lex.

Not like, say, Red Son or War of the Worlds Lex, where he is an anti hero.

I liked him during the Loeb/Casey years, personally.

Prior to Flashpoint, Lex's origins involved him as a teen cutting the brakes to his dad's car so he would die in a crash and be free from his influence. Granted, his father was a jerk, but still, that's pretty evil. And that way before he met Superman, so his excuse of Kal making him what he is today means shit.

He's an ass hole.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Prior to Flashpoint, Lex's origins involved him as a teen cutting the brakes to his dad's car so he would die in a crash and be free from his influence. Granted, his father was a jerk, but still, that's pretty evil.

Yep; insurance money for the win.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Ever see Indecent Proposal?

no.

i liked the JLU lex best.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Prior to Flashpoint, Lex's origins involved him as a teen cutting the brakes to his dad's car so he would die in a crash and be free from his influence. Granted, his father was a jerk, but still, that's pretty evil. And that way before he met Superman, so his excuse of Kal making him what he is today means shit.

He's an ass hole. And Bruce thinks this guy isn't evil ?

I also liked Lex Luthor: Man of Steel.

That pretty much nailed how I viewed Lex.

Originally posted by Starscream M
no.

i liked the JLU lex best.

http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2009/07/24/a-year-of-cool-comic-book-moments-day-205/

Originally posted by -Pr-
http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2009/07/24/a-year-of-cool-comic-book-moments-day-205/ wow...amazing writing and great scene!

Originally posted by -Pr-
http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2009/07/24/a-year-of-cool-comic-book-moments-day-205/

Lol @ the troll face in the third panel.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Lol @ the troll face in the third panel. haha good catch

Originally posted by -Pr-
http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2009/07/24/a-year-of-cool-comic-book-moments-day-205/

Yeah thats just evil at the core..

Lex tries to show the evil in all people, which is the real reason he hats Kal. He cant find it in him.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Yeah thats just evil at the core..

Lex tries to show the evil in all people, which is the real reason he hats Kal. He cant find it in him.

If he wasn't such a dick, maybe he'd have a friend that would tell him about superdickery.com.

Originally posted by Starscream M
guess what, wolverine faced a majority of those villains too, does that make him on par with superman now?

http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc513/dmills31/Nova%20CQB%20protocols/3219490313_99be144405-picsay.jpg