SS Link vs TP Link

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CosmicComet
http://cdn3.digitaltrends.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/legend-of-zelda-skyward-sword-e3-2011-21-650x365.jpg

vs.

http://www.unlimitedgamer.net/coverage/loz/images/Legend_tent_scnreenshots_018.jpg



Pure sword and shield fight.

ScreamPaste
TP Link destroys. erm

XanatosForever
Back up your claim, please.

ScreamPaste
TP Link has the ToC, SS Link does not.

Amped Link > Unamped Link.

BloodRain
SSLink.


And thats why.

CosmicComet
SS Link soloed an army of monsterz.

vin

BloodRain
And SSLink has Fi.

Fi > Navi.

Thats 3:0 to SS.

ScreamPaste
SS is the better game, TP Link is the stronger Link.

BloodRain
How does his SkySlash fair? Could cut him without getting up close.

ScreamPaste
They both have the master sword, TP Link could defend himself from it easily enough.

The problem is that they seriously aren't in the same tier.

CosmicComet
Agreed.

SS Link is far too strong and fast.

TP Link was weakened by the tri-force of courage.

vin

BloodRain
TPLink doesnt have the SkySlash..

The only difference is that he's alil bit stronger.

ScreamPaste
Originally posted by BloodRain
TPLink doesnt have the SkySlash..

The only difference is that he's alil bit stronger. Except that isn't the only difference at all. mmm In fact, power-scaling with SS tells us some ****ed up things about the differences. no expression

TP Link is an entire tier above SS Link due to his lack of the ToC. SS Link is still superior in coolness. estahuh SS Link has unimaginable bawlz.

CosmicComet
Who in TP came close to volcanic eruption?

Girahim could beat people with that kinda of power.

I don't think Midna possibly being the sole person destroying the castle comes close to that.

ScreamPaste
Originally posted by CosmicComet
Who in TP came close to volcanic eruption?

Girahim could beat people with that kinda of power.

I don't think Midna possibly being the sole person destroying the castle comes close to that. You've been trolling this entire thread, but I'll give you a moment to outline that SS's cast is basically the normal Zelda cast, except powered down. ****ing IMPA could hold back casual region busting with a simple spell, and Ghirahim, Demise's sword shattered Impa's shield in her prime. He also bested Faron in combat. That puts Demise's sword, which he created without the ToP, at on par with casual city/region busting foes.

Demise himself physically shook an entire ****ing valley while weakened.

Queue reincarnation. As Ganondorf, with the ToP.

Demise reincarnated with a piece of the triforce which he actively sought after > Demise without it.
Link with ToC > Link without ToC

CosmicComet
Don't powerscale on me bro, indulge me and give me feats. O_o'

I don't know if region busting is the right word for flooding that area btw.

ScreamPaste
Originally posted by CosmicComet
Don't powerscale on me bro, indulge me and give me feats. O_o' Those are feats.

We know Ganondorf is > Demise, and we know Link is > Link. For this thread, that's all I need to know. TP Link destroys.

NemeBro
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Demise himself physically shook an entire ****ing valley while weakened.

Queue reincarnation. As Ganondorf, with the ToP.

****.

I can't even hate you for this spoiler bullshit.

Because it just feels so ****ing awesome to be right about things.

I called this shit SO ****ING HARD.

CosmicComet
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Those are feats.

Don't give me SS feats.

I know those.

I just find it hard to follow you on the power scaling from SS.

Those feats on their own are way up there for what I've seen across Zelda.

Midna's attack on Dorf for example, again, was impressive for TP's feats, and its nothing compared to casually causing a very large volcano to erupt just due to a temper tantrum, that we see in SS.

NemeBro
Ganondorf easily crushed Midna.

I'm not really seeing your point dawg.

ScreamPaste
Those feats come from weakened versions of the same characters. Link and Ganon here lack the primary sources of their power in later titles. no expression

In SS, the deities that can casually do such bullshit are fodder next to Demise, a weaker 'Dorf, who did in fact crush Midna, defeating her off screen in seconds.

Oh, and Zant, with a fraction of Dorf's power dismisses the regional deities in TP effortlessly as well.

CosmicComet
My point is I don't buy that any of them having any particular triforce pieces gives them an automatic pass to being better than feats we've seen in SS, when the feats in SS are so good.


I just don't 'buy' that they are all of a sudden more destructive than they've shown before. Surely the effects can be more subtle than simply being more BOOM, and stuffs.

Powerscaling within SS, I totally buy that, but across games, I'm just less sure here, because the narrative in LoZ is so damn vague as to particular meanings. Nintendo doesn't help here either.

ScreamPaste
Originally posted by CosmicComet
My point is I don't buy that any of them having any particular triforce pieces gives them an automatic pass to being better than feats we've seen in SS, when the feats in SS are so good.


I just don't 'buy' that they are all of a sudden more destructive than they've shown before. Surely the effects can be more subtle than simply being more BOOM, and stuffs.

Powerscaling within SS, I totally buy that, but across games, I'm just less sure here, because the narrative in LoZ is so damn vague as to particular meanings. Nintendo doesn't help here either. Except that the feats in SS aren't even all that great. We've seen Ganondorf bust an island and turn off the sun with his power sealed away in WW, and the Master Sword seal (at least) an entire country (possibly the world, but won't claim that.) frozen in time while depowered. Ect.

We've seen Zant, with a fraction his Ganon's power overlap all of Hytule with another dimension, we've seen Aganihm cause natural distasters, ect.

Edit: The short version is Demise is plainly weaker than Ganon, and Link without the ToC is weaker than Link with it.

CosmicComet
Going to get back to you after I go through a TP walkthrough again

Cyner
Gonna have to disagree Scream.

Demise without the ToP CONQUERED TIME, which is why his hatred can even manifest itself as Ganondorf later on.

He was also so powerful that he came close to defeating what was at the time the 4th most powerful being ever.

When you fight Demise you fight him in a pocket dimension that he created in a second and he promises that as soon as he kills you he'll annihilate the entire world.

Additionally SS Link is in tune with the entire triforce and PIS aside he could have wished Demise away a second time...
SS Link doesn't have cutscene feats of strength but what he does have is going sword to sword against a character that easily busts Impa's shield.

ScreamPaste
Fi is more powerful than Hylia was, she wasn't the fourth most powerful being ever, and would indeed have lost to Demise had they fought again.

Conquering time is indeed why he returns.

When Link fought Demise he left the entire Triforce behind in the future for PIS reasons.

Demise actively sought the same thing Ganondorf did, the triforce, for it's power. Ganondorf actually got a piece, and even with the bulk of his power sealed in WW has feats comparable to or superior to Demise's except for that conquering time thing. We don't actually know how he did that or what it entails, but it's pretty badass.

TP Link goes Sword to Sword with Demise's reincarnated, bigger, badder self. :/

SS is undoubtedly the better game, but SS Link doesn't have the feats or ToC TP Link does.

SS Link is a badass, but he's low tier on the Link-scale. Hylia's power is obviously less than that of the Old Gods because she wanted to use the Triforce as well. Fi is on par with said triforce, making her more powerful than Hylia. Fi is really the key reason Link won, heh.

Sr J-Bieb
Did the ToC actually do anything offensively or defensively for Link? All it did was protect him in the Twilight Realm. Or give him Courage I guess which wouldn't help here...
And SS Link was in perfect balance with the Triforce as he was able to use the whole thing without adverse effects. And he had the full marks on his hand... not that it means much mind you, but he has shown more control over the Triforce than TP Link, which could help him against it if it was used as a weapon.

Plus, when Demise was defeated the first time, it took Hylia in her full form, and the five tribes, and she could only seal him away with a temporary seal. The second time, he had Hylia's soul inside him, and was beginning to fully consume it.
And if Fi is on par with the Triforce, then what does that make Hylia? Since Hylia created Fi. Or Ghirahim for that matter who was the opposite of Fi.
Either way Link overcame Demise consuming Hylia's soul, an opposite Master Sword, and this was right after two huge fights. And Demise on his own was vastly more powerful than Ghirahim.

I don't see how it can be made so cut and dry that TP Link is above SS Link.

CosmicComet
*rubs eyes*

Bran with a serious post?

And outside of the comic sections?

Sr J-Bieb
I make serious posts once in a while.

And I like games more than comics, although I only venture out if nothing is interesting in the comics section.

NemeBro
Get the **** out of my forum Bran.

/wonders if Bran can remember who I am.

ScreamPaste
Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Did the ToC actually do anything offensively or defensively for Link? All it did was protect him in the Twilight Realm. Or give him Courage I guess which wouldn't help here...
And SS Link was in perfect balance with the Triforce as he was able to use the whole thing without adverse effects. And he had the full marks on his hand... not that it means much mind you, but he has shown more control over the Triforce than TP Link, which could help him against it if it was used as a weapon.

Plus, when Demise was defeated the first time, it took Hylia in her full form, and the five tribes, and she could only seal him away with a temporary seal. The second time, he had Hylia's soul inside him, and was beginning to fully consume it.
And if Fi is on par with the Triforce, then what does that make Hylia? Since Hylia created Fi. Or Ghirahim for that matter who was the opposite of Fi.
Either way Link overcame Demise consuming Hylia's soul, an opposite Master Sword, and this was right after two huge fights. And Demise on his own was vastly more powerful than Ghirahim.

I don't see how it can be made so cut and dry that TP Link is above SS Link. Giving you courage isn't what the ToC does at all, though. Link receives it because he is courageous to begin with. All of the pieces of the triforce are explicitly powerful artifacts, lol.

Link in SS is brought in balance with the Triforce an also has the unique opportunity to actually collect the entire thing. Something few other Links actually get to do. This opportunity would not protect him from TP Link's enhanced strength and the like.

Not sure what your point is. The first time Hylia defeated him, the second time Link did, yes. Link with the Master Sword, which is > Hylia.

Hylia only made the goddess Sword. It was then empowered by three more goddesses, the three who created everything, including the Triforce, which Hylia seeks to use against Demise because her own power is insufficient. In aLttP the Master Sword, Fi, is directly stated to be a failsafe for the misuse of the triforce.

Ghirahim being her opposite does not make him her equal.

Demise < Ganondorf, no Triforce of Power. Ganondorf is his reincarnation, and he actually gets the ToP.

All in all, SS Link is not as powerful as TP Link. He doesn't have as good of feats, or the ToC.

ares834
I gotta agree with Cyner, Cosmic Current, and Sr J-Bieb that just because TP Link has the ToC that doesn't make him superior to any Link who doesn't.

I'm giving it to SS Link.



Where does this come from?

The game claims that Ganondorf is merely an incarnation of his hatred. That doesn't mean Ganodrof is Demise reincarnated, but rather that Ganondorf was corrupted by this hatred. Demise himself is, according to Fi, eradicated and his consciousness was sealed in the master sword.

ScreamPaste
Then post some feats.

TP Link's are all better.

The Link with the amp is better than the Link without the amp, this is pretty plain.



Strange how exactly what Demise says will happen happens. An incarnation, which looks almost exactly like him down to the blatantly ridiculous height, comes back over and over, making life hard for Hyrule, eh? The sword absorbs his consciousness, what's left over isn't said.

Incarnation is even in bold red. This is important

Ganondorf without the ToP is also pretty explicitly powerful. With it, he's better than Demise, by feats and plain logic. A weakened Dorf has better feats than Demise does, lol.

SS is the better game, it's protagonist and antagonist are weaker, however.

Sr J-Bieb
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Giving you courage isn't what the ToC does at all, though. Link receives it because he is courageous to begin with. All of the pieces of the triforce are explicitly powerful artifacts, lol.

Link in SS is brought in balance with the Triforce an also has the unique opportunity to actually collect the entire thing. Something few other Links actually get to do. This opportunity would not protect him from TP Link's enhanced strength and the like.

Not sure what your point is. The first time Hylia defeated him, the second time Link did, yes. Link with the Master Sword, which is > Hylia.

Hylia only made the goddess Sword. It was then empowered by three more goddesses, the three who created everything, including the Triforce, which Hylia seeks to use against Demise because her own power is insufficient. In aLttP the Master Sword, Fi, is directly stated to be a failsafe for the misuse of the triforce.

Ghirahim being her opposite does not make him her equal.

Demise < Ganondorf, no Triforce of Power. Ganondorf is his reincarnation, and he actually gets the ToP.

All in all, SS Link is not as powerful as TP Link. He doesn't have as good of feats, or the ToC. What does it do for Link then? What has it done for Link that would be relevant here? Why is Link more powerful with it? Because it sure as hell didn't seem to do anything except help him in the Twilight Realm.

It would protect him theoretically from any theoretical attacks from TP Link's shard that hasn't shown to power him up.

That Demise was immensily powerful. He's able to match the yes, 4th strongest being, and he can't simply be put under Ganon just because he has the Triforce of Power. I don't see the solid fact there is all. Especially when Demise basically has a Master NegaSword.

Hylia made Fi though. And after it was empowered by the three flames, Hylia empowered it even farther.
She's the one who sealed it away, and allowed it so that mortals can use the Triforce. If she wanted to, I see no reason why she couldn't have used the Triforce.
Plus, the misuse of the Triforce would be by evil beings, which the Master Sword is the bane of, so I don't see why that line would mean that it is equal to Triforce. Especially when it has nothing on the Triforce in terms of feats.

Maybe so, but he sure as hell didn't show he was far below Fi if at all. Empowering beings, creating hundreds of beings, creating a spell to bring back Demise, etc.

A reincarnation doesn't mean the exact same level of power. He was a reincarnation of hatred, not necessarily power. I don't think you can paint one above the other with such little info into their limits.

Let's be honest, the ToC is irrelevant. And what are Link's feats that are above SS' Link? Sumo wrestling a Goron?
SS had better sword skills though, so he may win. stick out tongue

ares834

NemeBro
Who gives a shit if Hylia made a small island levitate?

Zant could merge a ****ing country into another dimension, and he wielded a fraction of Ganondorf's power.

ares834
Did he do that through Ganon's power?

IIRC, he did it by defeating the Light Spirits who were then unable to hold back the twilight.

Also, did he actually merge the relams or did he cover Hyrule with twilight? I always assumed it was the latter.

ScreamPaste
Ganondorf tells the player directly in OoT that Link's power comes from the ToC, which he receives right before he starts doing things that are blatantly super-human.

The triforce pieces amp their wielders, this is pretty plain to see, lol.

Except it wouldn't, because SS Link doesn't actually possess any of the triforce. He can't exert control over TP Link's ToC because TP Link has it. no expression


Hylia is NOT the fourth strongest being, haermm Nowhere is that stated, she's considered a deity, that doesn't immediately close the gap between her and the other deities. She creates Skyloft and the like, but she would have explicitly lost in round two to Demise, who could be erased by the Triforce as we saw in the main timeline.

Hylia could not use the triforce as a goddess, and she needed the power of the triforce to beat Demise. Fi is a failsafe for the entire triforce. Fi > Hylia. Her taking human form for this exact reason is a major plot point.

Ganon's feats are better anyway, and yes he can. Lol. Ganon with his power sealed away effectively turns off the sun, breaks out of a seal created by the remaining deities in Hyrule who flooded the world, resists a time stop along the way, and busts an island.

Even with his power sealed away, he's got better feats then Demise.

Except nothing puts Ghirahim on Fi's level. He's never empowered by the other goddesses and wass created by Demise who lost to Hylia who is small potatoes to the other goddesses. no expression
In WW, Fi is depowered. She still maintains a country-wide (at least, probably world wide) time stop. no expression Yeah.


Being less powerful than Demise who is roflstomped by the Triforce.


I know an unamped Demise was beaten by an unamped Link. I know the triforce pieces amp their wielders and I know Ganondorf has far and away better feats than Demise does. I know all I need to.


It really isn't irrelevant as it is an amp, and TP Link stops and throws Dangoro, who weighs in at around 70 tons, and beats a weakened Ganondorf in a swordlock (to put this in perspective, Ganondorf is stronger than OoT Link who chucks multi-hundred ton pillars like it's not a thing.) He stops a charging boar form Ganon as a wolf, he is trained by the Hero's Shade, Ocarina of Time Link, ect, ect.

SS Link's sword skills are better? Based on what? Lol. Nothing says that. It's impossible to say any Link has the better sword skill than any other. Especially since one of Link's apparent super powers is instant mastery of whatever he touches.

Demise < Ganondorf.

They aren't. Some have more of the Triforce than others. cool

Nah, but this isn't a point since TP Link has better feats AND an amp.

Dat red hair, massive height and build, off-colour-skin, massive nose, facial shape, yeah, nothing like Ganondorf.

Not really, now we're arguing semantics. Lol. Whatever it is that Demise was made of, and it's entirely possible it was pure hate anyway, reincarnated itself with a seperate consciousness. Ganondorf doesn't remember or even know about the events of SS, different consciousness. He still looks and acts very similar, with the exact same goal, the triforce, did I mention he wanted the triforce, which Ganon actuallygets a piece of? He does.

Ganon > Demise.


1. It's entirely possible Demise is nothing but hatred.
2. She says his consciousness is eradicated.
3. I've already outlined the similarities.
4. Ganon is better by feats, so moot point.
5. He does come back, shit, before the game came out the devs told us this was Ganondorf's origin story.

Listed above.

Zant with a fraction of Ganon's power casually overlaps dimensions. smile

All known at the time of SS.

Your point?

Yeah, Hylia holds up Skyloft. That's not that great of a feat, lol.

Ghirahim can fight Faron and win, yes. The same Faron who requires a hero to stop Demise.

Fi is on par with the triforce, which is explicitly > Demise, Ghirahim, Hylia, ect, lol.

TP Link wins.

NemeBro
Originally posted by ares834
Did he do that through Ganon's power?

IIRC, he did it by defeating the Light Spirits who were then unable to hold back the twilight.

Also, did he actually merge the relams or did he cover Hyrule with twilight? I always assumed it was the latter. Considering Zant had no power before he acquired Ganondorf's power, yes.

Zant has shown the ability to consciously infect areas with the Twilight Realm, not just pwning Light Spirits to make them overlap, if memory serves. Also, even assuming you are correct in your assumption, Zant defeating several spirits who prevent a country from being overlapped by another dimension is a better feat than beating up some ***** who makes a small island float.

I can't remember off the top of my head, but I'm not really seeing the relevance.

ares834

NemeBro
Originally posted by ares834
Fair enough. Still creating dimensions > merging them.

I'm afraid not.

Creating a pocket dimension doesn't mean jack shit in the context of a battle, unless they have shown to apply that power to it.

Ganondorf has shown the power to banish creatures in the gap between dimensions, and Zant was shown warping reality during his fight, duplicating previous boss stages, etc.

"Creating a pocket dimension" doesn't mean a damn thing to me.



Please, by all means, tell me the quantifiable difference between merging another dimension with a country and merely corrupting the entirety of it with dark magic, effectively altering the reality into a copy of another dimension.

Please, quantify both feats to me and prove the former is greater. no expression

ares834
Originally posted by NemeBro
I'm afraid not.

Indeed it is.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Creating a pocket dimension doesn't mean jack shit in the context of a battle, unless they have shown to apply that power to it.

True. Yet, I was not the one who originally brought up dimensional manipulations. Screampaste did. So I presented one which Demise preformed that was more impressive implying a greater power.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Please, quantify both feats to me and prove the former is greater. no expression

Nah. I never claimed it was. I only pointed out there is a vast difference between the two.

NemeBro
Originally posted by ares834
Indeed it is.

Nope.



Only Ganondorf's showings have combat applications.



Well sure, I guess "technically" there is a difference.

One is merging two dimensions on a country scale.

The other is altering the fabric of reality on a country scale.

Either way, you get country level reality warping.

ares834
Originally posted by NemeBro
Nope.


So you think merging something is more impressive than creating it? You know it's possibe for us (humans) to merge matter but impossible to actually create it. True creation is beyond us while we can use what is already here to do whatever we want. Therefore, creation seems to be more difficult.



Like BFRing a defeated creation... That's hardly a winning strategy, especially against a being shown capable of traversing dimensions.




Which, according to you, is irrelevant in a fight.

"country level reality warping" doesn't mean a damn thing to me. lol

NemeBro
Originally posted by ares834
So you think merging something is more impressive than creating it? You know it's possibe for us (humans) to merge matter but impossible to actually create it. True creation is beyond us while we can use what is already here to do whatever we want. Therefore, creation seems to be more difficult.

I think that it is when merging it can be used in battle. "Creating a pocket dimension" doesn't equate to prowess in combat.

Though funnily enough, I just recalled that Ganon can create pocket dimensions.

In the Oracles games, he is capable of pulling you into a pocket dimension where your controls are reversed, and he did this while lacking the Triforce and while only a mindless beast.

Actually, IIRC, both of the main villains of the two Oracles games, Onox and Veran, both merely pawns of Twinrova, who seek to resurrect Ganon, created pocket dimensions to fight Link in. Onox did it in his dragon form, at least, I definitely remember that.

So yeah, Demise creating a pocket dimension to fight Link in is nothing special.



I wasn't actually talking about that.

I was referring to, well, just read below.



I am afraid you will have to try harder.

Zant's "country level reality warping" also has the side effect of imprisoning the souls of everyone inside the country, trapping them in their own soul.

That is a combat application. That is the difference.

ares834
Originally posted by NemeBro
Though funnily enough, I just recalled that Ganon can create pocket dimensions.

In the Oracles games, he is capable of pulling you into a pocket dimension where your controls are reversed, and he did this while lacking the Triforce and while only a mindless beast.

Just checked the video. The room itself never changes nor is there mention of dimensions at all.



Chekced the video for this battle as well. Link falls through a hole in the ground after defeating Onox at which point he transforms into a dragon. There is no mention of him creating a new dimension to battle in.

He does claim he is from te Dark dimension though, so perhaps he pulled Link there.



Fair enough. Yet, I'm not actually arguing that Demise is superior to Ganon or Zant. Only that Link's defeat of Demise is more impressive. Quite simply, Zant's "country level reality warping" is useless against Link armed with the Master Sword.

ScreamPaste
Which Link has against Demise, who is less powerful.

Beating Demise is impressive but in no way more impressive than beating Ganon. no expression

ares834
Except, as I have already claimed, Link had help from both Midna and Zelda in his fight against Ganon.

Furthermore, SS Link has plenty of other great feats mentioned in this thread like single handedly taking down an entire army and being physcially strong enough to knock around Ghirahim.

What does TP Link bring to the table that is more impressive than either of those?

ScreamPaste
Originally posted by ares834
Except, as I have already claimed, Link had help from both Midna and Zelda in his fight against Ganon.

Furthermore, SS Link has plenty of other great feats mentioned in this thread like single handedly taking down an entire army and being physcially strong enough to knock around Ghirahim.

What does TP Link bring to the table that is more impressive than either of those? Zelda shot arrows Link could have shot himself and Midna faked dying to piss off the player.

Neither of those things are impressive feats. Fighting an army? Literally any Link could do that, including the children.

TP Link bests Ganon in a straight up sword lock. no expression

CosmicComet
What strength feats does Ganondorf have in TP?

And TP Link got hit by the slow King Bulbin. I have a hard time believing he could solo an army, at least as easily or as quickly as SS Link did.

Again, I don't believe in this powerscaling; its simply not showing up in the visuals for one, SS Link not having a ToC seems irrelevant. He's superhuman without it.And his deeper connection to the triforce itself is probably better anyway.

Posted this on the OBD to get more opinions and I don't see anyone calling a stomp either way there, and they are certainly more knowledgeable about Zelda than I am.

ScreamPaste
It doesn't seem to end up with him actually possessing any part of the triforce, making it worthless. no expression

And tanked it. Good luck to an army killing what it can't hurt. Lol.

CosmicComet
Well neither does the ToC actually do anything that would actually help TP Link directly in a fight, so its a moot point either way.

Took the flat of the axe to the chest. and it hurt him enough for him to grunt in pain and get knocked back. King Bulbin is really no bigger than those bokoblin things SS Link fought, and SS Link fought an army of them. They would hurt him after awhile.

ScreamPaste
It does a lot more than a connection to something you don't actually possess.

Lol. Doesn't do anything? what the hell would the point even be in him having it if it didn't? Shoot, go ahead. We're told flat out that the triforce pieces are sources of power, and have been used as such for the entire series, since "Gannon with power" back in 1986, ffs.

And suddenly once SS comes out we can claim being 'in tune' with the whole triforce is just as good or better than actually possessing an amp?

Well shit, might as well start claiming Supes is more in tune with space or something on account of having been there and has cosmic powerz.

Let me be frank. SS is the better game. SS Link is awesome. His feats are inferior, his enemy is inferior, he has no amp, TP Link does. This is a one sided fight.

Go ahead, say you don't believe in power-scaling again. It doesn't matter, because TP Link and Ganondorf have the better feats anyway and the canon does.

ScreamPaste
Mad. Done with thread.

NemeBro
I am sorry for making Shin mad guise.

Nephthys
He's mad cuz he cares.

BloodRain
That guy clutching his beer at the corner-stool of a gritty bar who is angered by something he overheard comes to mind from this.. mmm

----------------------------------------

By feats TP Link is still stronger, unless the Girahim wall busting is above it.. if so he gains the advantage.

Everything hangs on what the ToC gives him and if Dem <?> Dorf. And for fear of giving Scream an aneurysm Im just gonna point out one thing instead of a list; The TF isn't a solid amp if its on at all.

Starting with the ToC; TP Link with it was brought up to the strength of <50 tons. On the other hand, OoT Link with it can't even lift a 10 ton rock without S.Gauntlets, and thats more than it gives to the other Link's.

And the ToP; Besides Dem's consciousness being sealed into the MS making him being fully reincarnating pretty tough, theres also if anything besides the hatred was passed on. And their shown feats. Dorf's biggest thing is freezing over the Zora domain, which by sheer size is far smaller than erupting a large volcanoe/shaking an island or that huge flood. And Demise > Girahim > them, apparently. If that holds then Dorf is below them in feats and thus cant be stronger than Dem.


Basically: Simply having the ToC/P doesnt make them much abve the norm, less so in Dem/Dorf's case.

NemeBro
Um, no, Ganondorf's best feat is when Zant corrupted/merged most of Hyrule into the Twilight Ream.

CosmicComet
Originally posted by BloodRain

By feats TP Link is still stronger, unless the Girahim wall busting is above it.. if so he gains the advantage.

Everything hangs on what the ToC gives him and if Dem <?> Dorf. And for fear of giving Scream an aneurysm Im just gonna point out one thing instead of a list; The TF isn't a solid amp if its on at all.

Starting with the ToC; TP Link with it was brought up to the strength of <50 tons. On the other hand, OoT Link with it can't even lift a 10 ton rock without S.Gauntlets, and thats more than it gives to the other Link's.
.

I'm not sure its open and shut that TP Link is stronger by feats.

His best strength feat is tossing Dangoro around with the iron boots equipped. Ghirahim's wall busting should be greater than that, but then again I don't recall SS Link and him having a direct contests of strength in their fights in which Link won, so its iffy.

SS Link's best strength feat is probably this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1R9menijiWg&feature=player_embedded
^12:24-12:33. That hand would definitely weigh more than Dangoro.




As an aside for Ghirahim, he was also able to bust through Impa's force fields, and old Impa was able to hold back perhaps millions of tons of water with some magic seal...but I'm not going to assume that the two are equivalent since there are too many unknowns. Just saying since Paste brought it to my attention once before.

CosmicComet
Oh another good one. IIRC, Link broke out of the grip of Tentalus. That boss was wrecking the sandship. Which is an impressive feat of strength because the sandship was durable enough to withstand three cannon shots and take no damage at all--only its cloaking device malfunctioned from it. the hull was in-tact.

BloodRain
Originally posted by NemeBro
Um, no, Ganondorf's best feat is when Zant corrupted/merged most of Hyrule into the Twilight Ream.
Ah ues, though reasing Twilight is like releasing a plauge on an area. Not a power-feat or some dimensional merge like Ive read.
Originally posted by CosmicComet
I'm not sure its open and shut that TP Link is stronger by feats.

His best strength feat is tossing Dangoro around with the iron boots equipped. Ghirahim's wall busting should be greater than that, but then again I don't recall SS Link and him having a direct contests of strength in their fights in which Link won, so its iffy.

SS Link's best strength feat is probably this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1R9menijiWg&feature=player_embedded
^12:24-12:33. That hand would definitely weigh more than Dangoro.




As an aside for Ghirahim, he was also able to bust through Impa's force fields, and old Impa was able to hold back perhaps millions of tons of water with some magic seal...but I'm not going to assume that the two are equivalent since there are too many unknowns. Just saying since Paste brought it to my attention once before.
Iron Boots only give him the weight. Think I was able to take the boots off when lifting Dangoro.
Think that was 50tons@5ms for TP against the SS wall feat of.. >100tons@10ms? If that scene was correct and Link had that strength he would be the stronger of the two by over four times.

Not convinced with the statue grab. Link didnt physically resist it, that and we see him squeeze out of the grasp, meaning that there was just enough room for him to inch around. Impa would be a solid, high ranking feat if we could confirm that she was as strong as she was hundreds of years ago.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Oh another good one. IIRC, Link broke out of the grip of Tentalus. That boss was wrecking the sandship. Which is an impressive feat of strength because the sandship was durable enough to withstand three cannon shots and take no damage at all--only its cloaking device malfunctioned from it. the hull was in-tact.
Got a clip? I spent a whole five seconds searching but didnt find it.

CosmicComet
^here:

rbzoIVwBDGw
11:50-11:57

This ship itself is huge too. I'd say at least 300 feet long. And Tentalus had no problem shaking it.

ScreamPaste
K, having calmed down a bit, I'm disappointed in all of you.

BR, I'm disappointed in you for lowballing TP Link's strength. Dangoro is not only far from his best strength feat, it's a feat TP Link performs at a time when he's told flat out he's unworthy of wearing the hero's tunic because at that time he's a ****ing wimp. no expression Later he overpowers a weakened Ganondorf in a sword lock.

CC, I'm disappointed in you for this thread in general but also the stance you've taken in it. Really? Suddenly the triforce pieces don't actually do anything when they've been doing things for as long as the series has existed? Suddenly the canon can just reform because a Link comes along who doesn't receive a piece of it?

Really, a Link whose feats are inferior AND lacks a piece of the triforce somehow gets a pass? Why? Because SS is the better game? Unfortunately that isn't how debates work.

Oh, and using general size as a strength indicator is lulzy enough, but TP Link yelling when he's hit? TP Link yells when he jumps, lifts things, swings his sword, and sometimes when he sees things that interest him. He's pointedly undamaged by the strike and again it's very early in his quest when he's still not very powerful. The game stops to point this out.

Soloing an army of mooks is a cool gameplay section, but it's never been a great feat. Mooks are mooks. They are by definition non-threatening. There's not a Link in the canon I can think of in any of the games I've played that couldn't have replicated that feat, nor is there a feat SS Link performs I doubt TP Link could perform.

TP Link on the other hand does shit SS Link does not have the feats for. His enemy is more powerful, and his game comes from a time when the stakes have escalated. I will say this plainly. I do not think SS Link could have beaten Ganondorf, and nothing he does suggests he could've.

Ares, I'm disappointed in you for your stance that Ghirahim wounding Faron makes him even close to as powerful as Ganon. The characters that show the city busting power in SS are pointedly low tier. In TP Zant with a fraction of Ganon's power can defeat these ****ers with a thought. haermm

Impa's 'simple seal' can hold back billions of galons of water, does Impa suddenly jump to the top 10 list in terms of power in Zelda canon?

Now that I've said my part, I'm done. Everyone enjoy yourselves.

BloodRain
Shade's comment doesn't say anything about being weak, just that he's not fit. Being LoZ he was most likely talking about courage or heroism.

And besides not standing behind base Dorf having GG strength, there's also that zapped-out-of-Zelda-MS-slashing-his-weak-point-explosion-to-the-face-shot-with-Light-Arrows-slashed-by-the-MS-again weakened state of his. Brought to a state where it was a struggle for him to even stand, how much strength has he retained here assuming his base has GG strength?



Starting with the ToC; TP Link with it was brought up to the strength of <50 tons(or <1000 tons). On the other hand, OoT Link with it can't even lift a 10 ton rock without S.Gauntlets, and thats more than it gives to the other Link's.

And the ToP; Besides Dem's consciousness being sealed into the MS making him being fully reincarnating pretty tough, theres also if anything besides the hatred was passed on. And their shown feats. Dorf's biggest thing is freezing over the Zora domain, which by sheer size is far smaller than erupting a large volcanoe/shaking an island or that huge flood (Or around equal in overall power by bringing down Twilight). And Demise > Girahim > them, apparently. If that holds then Dorf is below them in feats and thus cant be stronger than Dem.

If it amps its not a consistent one.

linkownsyousobs
So whats going on in the thread, I don't feel like reading. O.o
Might come out of retirement for this one. xD

BloodRain
That SS Link is stronger for matching sword-guys wall busting feat, and that its above TP Link throwing Dangoro.

And some tid-bits about Ganon/Dorf and the triforce :I

NemeBro
Ganondorf is stronger than Demise by a great deal insects.

BloodRain
Demmy's 'because I'm worth it' hair >

ScreamPaste
Originally posted by BloodRain
That SS Link is stronger for matching sword-guys wall busting feat, and that its above TP Link throwing Dangoro.

And some tid-bits about Ganon/Dorf and the triforce :I Garbage argument is garbage.

-TP Link overpowers a weakened Ganondorf.
-SS Link lacks ToC.
-Tossing Dangoro is one of TP Link's low end feats.
-You'd legitimately argue proto-Ganon's sword he made is stronger than actual Ganon? haermm

Yeah. No.

BloodRain
Dude.. I was just telliing Loys what happened o___o"







Though you did totally pass up on my ToC point. And that hurt, like, broken feelings and shiz.

ScreamPaste
Originally posted by BloodRain
Dude.. I was just telliing Loys what happened o___o"







Though you did totally pass up on my ToC point. And that hurt, like, broken feelings and shiz. This thread and everything in it makes me mad. You made a TOC point?

BloodRain
LoZ makes you mad? BT is that you?


And yes, to squash down into a fun-sized bite; If the ToC/P/W is an amp, as at times it is not, it is definatly not a consistant one. So having the ToC isnt an auto win.

And what feat does he have above Dangoro if not from a weakened Dorf? O.o

The Scenario
Twlit Ice Mass: Blizzeta beats the Dangoro toss, as I recall.

What was it, 200-300 tons or something? Don't remember the exact number for that one.

As for the Triforce of Courage, I'm not sure we've really seen Link use it. If it is an amp, it appears to be mostly defensive in nature.

BloodRain
Oh snap... wait did I get the number for that?... Weird.

Right, 300 tonner then. Knocking thst on ice would be somewhere above the wall feat. Wouldnt bet that its far from a stalemate in strength.


Its the whole giving and slowly raising his strength as its offensive quality.

linkownsyousobs
In other words, it's a shit storm? O.o

It would probably be a more civil debate if you just take out the Triforce all together... SS Link might not have the ToC at end game, but he wields the full Triforce near the end of it. Triforce talk is making this thread gay. Dx

And how is Gannondorf stronger than Demise? O.o

NemeBro
Shut up.

He's stronger because his feats are better.

BloodRain
Yeah forgot about Blizzeta, TP Link is the stronger one.

NemeBro
Who are you talking to?

BloodRain
Either the thread or the me of last month.


And what are the stronger feats Dorf has? According to Scream the three dragons are 'casual city busters', that Ghirahim is above them and Dem above even that. If he's above city busters isnt that above Dorf's sub-city power feat. (Not counting Twili shroud as a power/damage feat)

NemeBro
Dimension manipulation that leads into soulrape on a country scale for one.

linkownsyousobs
Originally posted by NemeBro
Shut up.

He's stronger because his feats are better.

you troll.

like? Did he mortally wound a god? O.o

BloodRain
Wouldn't label releasing Twilight as dimensional manipulation. Plus that's more a hax feat. Any destruction or power related one?

NemeBro
He's physically stronger according to feats.

But it doesn't matter. Ganondorf has been shown to operate at a noticeably greater scale than Demise.

ScreamPaste
Originally posted by linkownsyousobs
you troll.

like? Did he mortally wound a god? O.o Don't kid yourself, Ganondorf would have murked Hylia. no expression She's a goddess, but not one of the top tier goddesses.

@ BR, Ghirahim wounded Faron. Zant with a fraction of Ganondorf's power put Lanayru down with a thought.

linkownsyousobs
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Don't kid yourself, Ganondorf would have murked Hylia. no expression She's a goddess, but not one of the top tier goddesses.

@ BR, Ghirahim wounded Faron. Zant with a fraction of Ganondorf's power put Lanayru down with a thought.
I didn't say that he wouldn't, but he hasn't...

ScreamPaste
His feats are better than hers.

The Scenario
That depends entirely on your definition of a god. The Great Deku Tree is the Kokiri's patron deity, as is Jabu-Jabu for the Zora. The Rito have Valoo. Ganondorf did kill 2 of them, and was torturing the last.

BloodRain
Isnt Lanayru featless 'sides being full of light?

The Scenario
Nearly killing Midna? Though I suppose that falls under being full of light.

NemeBro
Lanayru could pwn the Twilight magic of a province.

But then Zant came in and effortlessly suppressed its power.

BloodRain
Surpressing its power =/= knocking it out/into a wall

Less impressive is that they "had their light stolen by these fell beasts." Zant beating ones doesnt say so much if lesser foes can manage it.

NemeBro
Zant casually replicating what a huge army was needed to do is not impressive to you?

Whatever you say man.

Oh, Zant also warped and perverted the entire Twili race. A little feat that often gets overlooked.

ScreamPaste
Originally posted by BloodRain
Surpressing its power =/= knocking it out/into a wall

Less impressive is that they "had their light stolen by these fell beasts." Zant beating ones doesnt say so much if lesser foes can manage it. Except that the light spirits have power over entire provinces, much like the dragons, given they're basically interchangable this isn't surprising.

You can try using the 'fell beasts' thing to downplay it, but it's really just a good showing of power from Ganon's minions at best.

BloodRain
@Neme:...a huge army was used to stun the Spirits? oO

That was him messing or sealing off the Sol's, no clue what that means though.

@Scream: Cept the Spirits were created and only power is to oppose Twilight/other darkness stuffs. Nothing outside that.

1. The minions are weak, only feat to their name is that they can beat humans. Link 'at his weakest' and as a wolf could beat them.
2. Light Spirits have no resistance (or something) feats.
3. The minions managed to best them.

Really would need to be a huge armys worth for Zant's assault to be more impressive than a simple force push.

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