Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

The Magus, using tech to manipulate the power of 5 CCU's, was able to come "just short" of the power of the Infinity Gauntlet...

Thanos, however, was seemingly able to achieve more with a lone CCU than the Magus could with 5; with a lone CCU, Thanos managed to replace Eternity with himself...

In other words, with a lone CCU, he was able to match the performance of the full Infinity Gauntlet...

Now if Thanos's will is strong enough to get that much out of a CCU, imagine what he could do with 5...

With 5 CCU's, can Thanos (with his very powerful will) defeat The Living Tribunal?

another spit thread.

LT stomps.

LOM, you should stop.

I received a PM from the thread starter explaining this thread. Let's see how this thread goes. I thought it was one sided. Maybe there are some people who disagree.

LT ... smashes ... "god" in a box.

The 616 Infinity Gauntlet is the supreme power beneath the LT.

Only an anomaly of ridiculous power like Protege or Scathan
can possibly challenge and/or defeat the IG in the hands of Thanos.

I'd put the CCUs somewhere right below the IG,
where the hierarchy gets fuzzy since there's several characters one could argue for.

The CCU's top feat is no doubt incredible,
but there are others that share similar and greater feats that are below the LT.

Bottom line:

The Cosmic Egg had 30 CCUs,
and it was being willed via a collective consciousness that spanned the milky way galaxy,
including the heroes/villains/alien races etc. and also coupled with
the Goddess' own consciousness who was running the show.

http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/10383766_CCU3.jpg

That's a lot of will power in unison my friend.


Yet, Jim Starlin clearly highlighted:

http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/10383768_CCU4.jpg

As you can see, and as I said,
the CCUs (willed efficiently) is about the next best thing below the IG.

----------------------------------------

Now, can the CCUs (fully harnessed) at-least possibly stalemate the IG?

Imo, I'll give that a weak yes.

TOAA>LT

There's a reason TOAA appointed LT to oversee the Multiverse

LT FTW

I like ur threads informative...Not a bother to a gentleman

"just short" and yet what took five cosmic cubes hours to do... The ig did in an instant... I wouldn't say that's an example of just short.

Originally posted by rotiart
"just short" and yet what took five cosmic cubes hours to do... The ig did in an instant... I wouldn't say that's an example of just short.

More importantly it was an INCOMPLETE IG too, remember it was missing the Reality Gem! IG FTW!

But back on topic, 5 CCUs or 5 MILLION CCUs makes no difference. It was stated on panel that the LT PERMITS the formation of CCUs by allowing energy from the Beyonders universe to leak into 616 reality to form one. At any time he puts his foot down and says enough's enough, there goes that. You have 5 (or 5 MILLION) powerless CCUs vs the power of the Living Tribunal.

LT stomps.

Well... that settles that...

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Well... that settles that...

I'm being serious :*(

It was stated in Fantastic Four Annual 27 (the one with the Beyonder/MM throw down). I can post scans if you want. But Mr. M already did in another thread. Give me a sec and I'll find it.

Originally posted by zopzop
I'm being serious :*(

It was stated in Fantastic Four Annual 27 (the one with the Beyonder/MM throw down). I can post scans if you want. But Mr. M already did in another thread. Give me a sec and I'll find it. I know (also just read that issue yesterday). I'm talking about the thread.

Originally posted by zopzop

More importantly it was an INCOMPLETE IG too,
remember it was missing the Reality Gem! IG FTW!

Originally posted by zopzop

\It was stated on panel that the LT PERMITS the formation of CCUs
by allowing energy from the Beyonders universe to leak into 616
reality to form one. At any time he puts his foot down and says
enough's enough, there goes that. You have 5 (or 5 MILLION)
powerless CCUs vs the power of the Living Tribunal.
Also Eternity/Infinity & Lord Chaos/Master Order partake in the agreement.

The BeyonderS are in a Universe outside of Eternity cause there's no time in it,
and it's so beyond comprehension that the High Evolutionary went
temporarily insane when he visited it.

It's also funny that their history/origin on panel turns out to be just as Beyonder's,
I also checked their 89' Handbook bio and it certifies this.

Only difference is the BeyonderS gave the Multiverse CCUs,
while Beyonder came in himself.

I guess that's why it was so easy to tie-in the Beyonder with the BeyonderS.

But yea, it seems this is a joint cosmic understanding between the
Cosmic hierarchy and the BeyonderS since eons past.
Originally posted by zopzop


LT stomps.
yes

Originally posted by zopzop
More importantly it was an INCOMPLETE IG too, remember it was missing the Reality Gem! IG FTW!

But back on topic, 5 CCUs or 5 MILLION CCUs makes no difference. It was stated on panel that the LT PERMITS the formation of CCUs by allowing energy from the Beyonders universe to leak into 616 reality to form one. At any time he puts his foot down and says enough's enough, there goes that. You have 5 (or 5 MILLION) powerless CCUs vs the power of the Living Tribunal.

LT stomps.

You know I do remember living tribunal saying it was an experiment he allows for. The only thing I wonder is if it's possible the experiment could have gotten away from him. Can't remember where I read about this though.

how high on the cosmic scale would anyone put the beyonders in theory

for me lt>beyonders

Well with how events have transpired over the years... Who knows....
The ig gets impressive showings in the 90
And then Recently with the hood and reed... The gems didn't seem all that uber...
While the cosmic cube with starlord seemed better

Excellent points everyone, but heres the thing (and how I was able to get Bada to re-open the thread):

A CCU is only limited by its users ability to make it perform via strength of will...

Magus's tech was making the 5 CCU's perform to a level that was "just short" of the IG, but at the same time Thanos with a lone CCU actually matched the performance of the full Infinity Gauntlet when he used it to replace Eternity with himself...

In other words Thanos with a lone CCU>>Magus's tech manipulating 5...

Inaddition, seemingly, Thanos with a lone CCU=Thanos with the IG...


Now, if you guys remember, the LT had to ponder wether or not he would be able to defeat the wearer of the IG...

In my minds eye this means that the LT is not vastly more powerful than the collective might of the gems; the LT is significantly more powerful, perhaps, but not greatly...

Now if Thanos with a lone CCU can match the IG...which apparently isnt that far off from the LT powerwise...Thanos with 5 CCU's should be able to overpower him.

still lt

If five CCUs could defeat LT, he wouldn't let so many of them float around.

Originally posted by King Kandy
If five CCUs could defeat LT, he wouldn't let so many of them float around.
/thread

Originally posted by King Kandy
If five CCUs could defeat LT, he wouldn't let so many of them float around.

The HotU was able to defeat the LT and the LT did nothing to keep others away from it...

The cosmics (via massive jobbing) rarely make intelligent decisions; allowing objects of Infinite Power seems to be one of them...

the heart no longer exists friend

@zopzop

The LT's statement can be interpreted to mean something other than what you think it does...

The LT says "we." That could easily mean that the cosmics have a working relationship with the True Beyonders (who supply the power for the CCU's) and that the creation of the CCU's are a joint decision...

But fact of the matter remains; Thanos with a lone CCU matched the full Infinity Gauntlet (which apparently isnt far off from the LT)...

As a result, Thanos with 5 CCU's should be able to overpower the LT...

Originally posted by guy222
the heart no longer exists friend

It existed prior to Thanos getting his hands on it...

And the "all-knowing" LT did nothing to prevent Thanos from getting it...

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
It existed prior to Thanos getting his hands on it...

And the "all-knowing" LT did nothing to prevent Thanos from getting it...

I'm pretty sure that's because TOAA set it up so that Thanos would get that power and fix the "flaw" in the universe.

indeed

many reference that silly story its starlin no different than any writer wanking a character

i seriously doubt now god humbles lt

geez

and the heart isn't even in the thread

no one now is above lt besides his boss been that way for years will always b this isn't secret wars time.... this isn't marvel the end

there's a reason shooter and starlin write for dc

The Cosmic Cube never matched what the IG did

Thanos beat Kronos and became the universe with the Cosmic Cube

Thanos actually beat Eternity with the IG... along with just about every other abstract (Death, Galactus, Order/Chaos, Celestials, Galactus, Kronos, Eon, Stranger, Love/Hate, Mephisto), and became the universe.
He has also talked down on the Cosmic Cube while talking of the IG too.

Then you go by your statement where it says that 5 would fall short of the IG as well... even the for proof of the Cosmic Cube isn't enough

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
It existed prior to Thanos getting his hands on it...

And the "all-knowing" LT did nothing to prevent Thanos from getting it...

and thanos is an ant to lt

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
The HotU was able to defeat the LT and the LT did nothing to keep others away from it...

The cosmics (via massive jobbing) rarely make intelligent decisions; allowing objects of Infinite Power seems to be one of them...
That was the will of God, so, of course LT did not interfere with it.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
@zopzop

The LT says "we." That could easily mean that the cosmics have a working relationship with the True Beyonders (who supply the power for the CCU's) and that the creation of the CCU's are a joint decision...


He said that, after he summoned Eternity/Order/Chaos to his presence. I took it to mean "we" aka LT/Eternity/Order/Chaos and since we all know that the LT's judgments trump anything Eternity/Order/Chaos say/do, if he changes his mind and refuses to allow energy from the Beyonders universe to form CCUs, that would be the end of that story.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
The Cosmic Cube never matched what the IG did

Thanos beat Kronos and became the universe with the Cosmic Cube

Thanos actually beat Eternity with the IG... along with just about every other abstract (Death, Galactus, Order/Chaos, Celestials, Galactus, Kronos, Eon, Stranger, Love/Hate, Mephisto), and became the universe.
He has also talked down on the Cosmic Cube while talking of the IG too.

Then you go by your statement where it says that 5 would fall short of the IG as well... even the for proof of the Cosmic Cube isn't enough

Surfer: "Experience has shown that CCU's are nearly all-powerful, but not quite... The collected infinity gems are a FAR more potent force."

Goddess: "True"

...And Surfer/Goddess were comparing the IG to the Cosmic Egg, there. The CE contained, what? 30 CCU's? Just saying.

Originally posted by Galan007


Surfer: "Experience has shown that CCU's are nearly all-powerful, but not quite... The collected infinity gems are a FAR more potent force."

Goddess: "True"

...And Surfer/Goddess were comparing the IG to the Cosmic Egg, there. The CE contained, what? 30 CCU's? Just saying.

I'd consider Mephisto to be far more knowledgable than the Surfer; Mephisto said that a CCU was all-powerful, but would refuse to surpass its self imposed (immature CCU's are semi-sentient) limitations unless compelled to do so by a will stronger than its own...

This relates to the Goddess as I believe that both Thanos with a lone CCU and Magus's tech (manpiulating 5) accomplished more with less CCU's; 30 CCU's dont mean what they potentially could mean without suffient willpower backing them...

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
The Cosmic Cube never matched what the IG did

Thanos beat Kronos and became the universe with the Cosmic Cube

Thanos actually beat Eternity with the IG... along with just about every other abstract (Death, Galactus, Order/Chaos, Celestials, Galactus, Kronos, Eon, Stranger, Love/Hate, Mephisto), and became the universe.
He has also talked down on the Cosmic Cube while talking of the IG too.

Then you go by your statement where it says that 5 would fall short of the IG as well... even the for proof of the Cosmic Cube isn't enough

Sure it did...

As pertains dealing with Eternity, Thanos was able to replace him (it) with himself; although with the Cube he arguably surpassed how he did it with the IG as with the CCU, he was able to replace Eternity and Eternity couldnt do anything about it...much less fight back.

As pertains the 5 CCU's, again...willpower; the Magus manipulated them with tech. Do you really think Magus's tech was able to make the CCU's completely disregard their self imposed limitations? I dont.

I believe the 5 CCU's were limited by Magus's tech...especially seeing what Thanos was able to do with a lone CCU.

Originally posted by zopzop
He said that, after he summoned Eternity/Order/Chaos to his presence. I took it to mean "we" aka LT/Eternity/Order/Chaos and since we all know that the LT's judgments trump anything Eternity/Order/Chaos say/do, if he changes his mind and refuses to allow energy from the Beyonders universe to form CCUs, that would be the end of that story.

But you are speculating just as I am...

I am merely trying to get you to see that that scene isnt as clear cut as you think it is; its very subject to interpretation...

And sure, its possible that no more CCU's would be formed without the LT's consent, but its very possible that the True Beyonders could form them and send them to 616 anyway...

Afterall, if such a small portion of their power can create objects so incredibly powerful, its seems very likely that they are much, much, more powerful than the Living Tribunal...

Originally posted by King Kandy
That was the will of God, so, of course LT did not interfere with it.

Now we have a very clear contradiction...

If the LT knew Thanos getting the HotU was the will of God, why did the LT judge against him and try to fight him (after Thanos acquired the HotU of course) then?

As a result, its clear that the "all-knowing" LT jobbed like crazy, just as all the cosmics do, when an object capable of kicking their tails shows up...

but the objects aren't friend

marvel goofed when they didn't connect the dots between beyonders and beyonder

i told us all before long when u weren't here

beyonders>beyonder no one listened

but we learn as we go

for the thread....living tribunal>>>thanos w/5 ccu

Originally posted by guy222
for the thread....living tribunal>>>thanos w/5 ccu

Its possible you are right, but I dont think this is clear cut...

In the right hands, 1 CCU was able to match the IG...

The IG isnt that much less powerful than the LT (as Warlock and the Infinity Watch #1 seems to indicate); the LT can beat it, but not without causing massive collateral damage...

So if 1 CCU (in the right hands) can equal the IG and the IG<the LT, then 5 CCU's (with the right person at the controls) should be able to surpass the LT...

In case some of you havent noticed, this thread is truly more about the CCU's than it is about Thanos...

Thanos just happens to be the one with the best track record of using them (his ability to compell one, via strength of will, seems to be more potent than the Goddess's will or the Magus's tech), and so he ended up being apart of this thread as a result...

i know

and the ccu's best feat is in the chaos engine trilogy

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
But you are speculating just as I am...

I am merely trying to get you to see that that scene isnt as clear cut as you think it is; its very subject to interpretation...

And sure, its possible that no more CCU's would be formed without the LT's consent, but its very possible that the True Beyonders could form them and send them to 616 anyway...

Afterall, if such a small portion of their power can create objects so incredibly powerful, its seems very likely that they are much, much, more powerful than the Living Tribunal...

On panel, he summons them to his presence and starts his "we permitted" speech. It's really not that complicated.

The True Beyonders universe is within the multiverse that the LT oversees. If he says no, then it's no. And there is nothing they can do about it.

We have zero on panel feats for the True Beyonders, the LT despite his low showings also has some very very high showings on panel.

The IG also sh|ts all over anything the CCUs have done on panel (and I'm talking meaningful stuff here, like FIGHTS).

Tangentially, the Cube Beings or CCUs are NEVER present when universe/multiverse wide crisis' are going down. When dealing with Thanos with the HotU, they weren't even summoned by the LT.

http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/10392778_Fantastic_Four_Annual_27_33.jpg

Originally posted by zopzop
On panel, he summons them to his presence and starts his "we permitted" speech. It's really not that complicated.

The True Beyonders universe is within the multiverse that the LT oversees. If he says no, then it's no. And there is nothing they can do about it.

We have zero on panel feats for the True Beyonders, the LT despite his low showings also has some very very high showings on panel.

The IG also sh|ts all over anything the CCUs have done on panel (and I'm talking meaningful stuff here, like FIGHTS).

Tangentially, the Cube Beings or CCUs are NEVER present when universe/multiverse wide crisis' are going down. When dealing with Thanos with the HotU, they weren't even summoned by the LT.

The IG doesnt ct!t all over Cubes; a lone CCU overtook Eternity without Eternity being able to do anything about it; atleast Eternity resisted Thanos with the IG...

In that novel that Mr Master referenced in a different thread, a lone CCU performed an omniversal feat...which is beyond anything done by the IG as well.

So no, even as pertains meaningful things, Cubes have better feats than the IG...

As pertains the Cubes never being present during a major crisis, the Pheonix Force (or the Inbetweener) is never present as well, so using that as "evidence" is dubious as writers are rarely consistent anyway...

As concerns the LT and "permitted," judging by how powerful the True Beyonders appear to be (based on a tiny fraction of their power being enough to create objects of infinite power like the CCU's), I dont think he could stop them anyway...

Do you have any proof that the True Beyonders universe falls under the jurisdiction of the LT?

Originally posted by guy222
http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/10392778_Fantastic_Four_Annual_27_33.jpg

That scan disproves nothing I've stated thus far; as far as my argument is concerned, it supports it...

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
The IG doesnt ct!t all over Cubes; a lone CCU overtook Eternity without Eternity being able to do anything about it; atleast Eternity resisted Thanos with the IG...

In that novel that Mr Master referenced in a different thread, a lone CCU performed an omniversal feat...which is beyond anything done by the IG as well.

So no, even as pertains meaningful things, Cubes have better feats than the IG...

Feats mean NOTHING in and of themselves without fights to back them up. Four Thors shored up the fabric of the MULTIVERSE with their Godblast.

When did Thanos overcome Eternity with a CCU? I want scans, I don't want scans of him becoming one with the Universe using a CCU, I want to see him using the CCU to overcome Eternity in a fight on panel. Hell the AO became one with the universe and he's a crotchety old man.



The PF is all over the place power wise and it's almost never (if at all) even seen outside the X-books or their tie ins. Maybe the writers feel it's not on the level of true cosmics? Regarding the IB he WAS there when the LT summoned all creation to go up against Thanos with the HotU, the Cubes and CCUs were no shows. He couldn't' have been there for the IG fight because his masters imprisoned him for attempting to defy them (as seen in Thanos Quest that led up to the IG affair).



Their universe is within the multiverse and was on Kubik/Kosmos' tour of creation. Kubik himself said there is NOTHING and no one above the LT save his master (this would include the true Beyonders).

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
That scan disproves nothing I've stated thus far; as far as my argument is concerned, it supports it...



LT>Beyonders>Beyonder

Fact

i never said anything about ur argument its all in the scan for ppl to see

cool cool

Originally posted by zopzop


Feats mean NOTHING in and of themselves without fights to back them up. Four Thors shored up the fabric of the MULTIVERSE with their Godblast.

When did Thanos overcome Eternity with a CCU? I want scans, I don't want scans of him becoming one with the Universe using a CCU, I want to see him using the CCU to overcome Eternity in a fight on panel. Hell the AO became one with the universe and he's a crotchety old man.



The PF is all over the place power wise and it's almost never (if at all) even seen outside the X-books or their tie ins. Maybe the writers feel it's not on the level of true cosmics? Regarding the IB he WAS there when the LT summoned all creation to go up against Thanos with the HotU, the Cubes and CCUs were no shows. He couldn't' have been there for the IG fight because his masters imprisoned him for attempting to defy them (as seen in Thanos Quest that led up to the IG affair).



Their universe is within the multiverse and was on Kubik/Kosmos' tour of creation. Kubik himself said there is NOTHING and no one above the LT save his master (this would include the true Beyonders).


u and i agree

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
I'd consider Mephisto to be far more knowledgable than the Surfer; Mephisto said that a CCU was all-powerful, but would refuse to surpass its self imposed (immature CCU's are semi-sentient) limitations unless compelled to do so by a will stronger than its Think of it this way: both Surfer and Goddess essentially stated IG>30 CCU's. So that was the clear intent of the writer in that particular story.

=all I was saying.