Void Sentry Vs Classic Juggernaut

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



Colossus-Big C
who wins

janus77
Void stomps.
He'll rip Juggernaut to shreds and then rip juggernaut's mind to shreds.


Juggernaut is about as overrated as it gets.

KingD19
Classic Juggernaut has a forcefield that was never broken through, and had access to a myriad of obscure powers that he could basically pull out of his ass.

Void doesn't beat him.

janus77
"classic" Juggernaut was supposed to be unstoppable (which is why he is named "Juggernaut"wink and that clearly wasn't the case (WarHulk, WWH, Godblast).

He's 95% hype, with a few high-end feats to fan the flames of such talk.

Captain Universe nearly murdered him, Savage Hulk thrashed him around, Void would stomp him.

LordofBrooklyn
Originally posted by janus77
"classic" Juggernaut was supposed to be unstoppable (which is why he is named "Juggernaut"wink and that clearly wasn't the case (WarHulk, WWH, Godblast).

He's 95% hype, with a few high-end feats to fan the flames of such talk.

Captain Universe nearly murdered him, Savage Hulk thrashed him around, Void would stomp him.

Thor had to strip Cain of his protective aura before he could hurt him.

janus77
... but his Godblast stopped and pushed pack, Juggernaut.
That's all that matters. Juggernaut's forward momentum is the measure of his power and it has been repeatedly overcome.

Stoic
Cain's mind may be the armor breaker here.

KingD19
Originally posted by janus77
"classic" Juggernaut was supposed to be unstoppable (which is why he is named "Juggernaut"wink and that clearly wasn't the case (WarHulk, WWH, Godblast).

He's 95% hype, with a few high-end feats to fan the flames of such talk.

Captain Universe nearly murdered him, Savage Hulk thrashed him around, Void would stomp him.

War Hulk didn't fight classic juggernaut. He fought a Juggernaut who'd lost a lot of his power and exotic abilities to Doctor Strange for some reason I can't remember. And even then, Hulk was powered by tech of a race of the most powerful beings in the entire marvel universe.

WWH also didn't fight classic juggernaut, as when Cyttorak gave him back his powers, they were still diminished from their original levels. And WWH didn't stop him. They locked up and Cain was pushing him back, then Hulk used his momentum against him. He ran him into the lake, then he ran away.

The GodBlast didn't stop him. It slowed him down, and then he began pushing against it and the ground couldn't hold up to the opposing forces. And that was the same GodBlast used against Galactus, despite fanboy belief.


Universe didn't nearly murder anybody. He sneak attacked him and destroyed his helmet, then used Cosmic level telepathy on him. When they fought again Cain handed him his ass.

When he and Savage Hulk, big red outperformed mean green. And since this is classic, with forcefield, invulnerability, leveling strength and access to feats of high end magic. If anything I say stalemate, unless Cain just does like Thor.

Stoic
Originally posted by KingD19
War Hulk didn't fight classic juggernaut. He fought a Juggernaut who'd lost a lot of his power and exotic abilities to Doctor Strange for some reason I can't remember. And even then, Hulk was powered by tech of a race of the most powerful beings in the entire marvel universe.

WWH also didn't fight classic juggernaut, as when Cyttorak gave him back his powers, they were still diminished from their original levels. And WWH didn't stop him. They locked up and Cain was pushing him back, then Hulk used his momentum against him. He ran him into the lake, then he ran away.

The GodBlast didn't stop him. It slowed him down, and then he began pushing against it and the ground couldn't hold up to the opposing forces. And that was the same GodBlast used against Galactus, despite fanboy belief.


Universe didn't nearly murder anybody. He sneak attacked him and destroyed his helmet, then used Cosmic level telepathy on him. When they fought again Cain handed him his ass.

When he and Savage Hulk, big red outperformed mean green. And since this is classic, with forcefield, invulnerability, leveling strength and access to feats of high end magic. If anything I say stalemate, unless Cain just does like Thor.


Can you verify that Cain was depowered at that period in time? What book was it stated that Strange did this, and was it respected by the author as canon at that point in time? The harness that Hulk wore did not make him do anything that he was incapable of doing on his own, it just allowed him to focus his rage better. If that same device were to be placed on Captain America it would not increase his strength.

Colossus-Big C
Originally posted by KingD19
War Hulk didn't fight classic juggernaut. He fought a Juggernaut who'd lost a lot of his power and exotic abilities to Doctor Strange for some reason I can't remember. And even then, Hulk was powered by tech of a race of the most powerful beings in the entire marvel universe.

WWH also didn't fight classic juggernaut, as when Cyttorak gave him back his powers, they were still diminished from their original levels. And WWH didn't stop him. They locked up and Cain was pushing him back, then Hulk used his momentum against him. He ran him into the lake, then he ran away.

The GodBlast didn't stop him. It slowed him down, and then he began pushing against it and the ground couldn't hold up to the opposing forces. And that was the same GodBlast used against Galactus, despite fanboy belief.


Universe didn't nearly murder anybody. He sneak attacked him and destroyed his helmet, then used Cosmic level telepathy on him. When they fought again Cain handed him his ass.

When he and Savage Hulk, big red outperformed mean green. And since this is classic, with forcefield, invulnerability, leveling strength and access to feats of high end magic. If anything I say stalemate, unless Cain just does like Thor. nice ownage

Damborgson
Originally posted by KingD19



The GodBlast didn't stop him. It slowed him down, and then he began pushing against it and the ground couldn't hold up to the opposing forces. And that was the same GodBlast used against Galactus, despite fanboy belief.




The god blast pushed him back actually. Not just slowed him.

Stoic
Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
nice ownage


A lot of what he said was filled with opinion not fact. it was true that when Cain first locked up with WW Hulk and took the beating, that he was still not at full power, but try proving that he was still not at full power during the second clash.

The same applies for his run in with War Hulk. These claims need to be proven before they can be believed, or taken for anything more than opinion.

CosmicComet
Classic Juggernaut. Fought Nightmare to a standstill.

What does Void possibly have to offer here?

janus77
Originally posted by CosmicComet
Classic Juggernaut. Fought Nightmare to a standstill.

What does Void possibly have to offer here?
"Classic" Savage Hulk, ripped Nightmare's head off, in his own dimension.

Nightmare has nightmares about Hulk, to this day, so ... not impressed with a "standstill".

Stoic
Originally posted by CosmicComet
Classic Juggernaut. Fought Nightmare to a standstill.

What does Void possibly have to offer here?

What about Voids ability to mind rape? If Cain lost his helmet as he often has, then what?

quanchi112
Voidtry stomps. Juggs has no chance.

CosmicComet
Originally posted by janus77
"Classic" Savage Hulk, ripped Nightmare's head off, in his own dimension.

Nightmare has nightmares about Hulk, to this day, so ... not impressed with a "standstill".

Did Nightmare at this time have the power to trap Eternity AND be above classic strange's ability to defeat? And was he corrupting an entire multiverse of earths?

I also don't remember that happening in Nightmare's dimension either.

janus77
Originally posted by CosmicComet
Did Nightmare at this time have the power to trap Eternity AND be above classic strange's ability to defeat? And was he corrupting an entire multiverse of earths?
Nightmare's been scared of Hulk for a long while now, so ...

Hulk ripped him to pieces on Nightmare Island, but that was prior to the whole M-day business (and long before Planet Hulk).

He's also scared him a few times since then, I think once Strange bfr'd Hulk to Nightmare's dimension and made Nightmare cry or some such.

Also, the business of trapping and corrupting... those are feats of prep. and scheming, not demonstrations of innate raw power.

Doom has taken Beyonder's powers... doesn't make Doom losing to Sentry any more impressive.

bbrem123
void every time

JakeTheBank
Bob wins.

Sirius77
I can't really see either one of these characters dealing enough lasting damage to one another to pull a win. If void can bfr juggs, I can see him winning, but otherwise, stalemate imo.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Sirius77
I can't really see either one of these characters dealing enough lasting damage to one another to pull a win. If void can bfr juggs, I can see him winning, but otherwise, stalemate imo. He can mm him into defeat.

The Sorrow
Juggernaut goes crying into a little corner again like he did against Onslaught. Void stomps.

Horrificus
Originally posted by The Sorrow
Juggernaut goes crying into a little corner again like he did against Onslaught. Void stomps. Using other story-lines that ignore historic Marvel continuity (Onslaught) to bolster the feats of another character that makes a joke out of years of Marvel continuity (Sentry/Void) is a definite house-of-cards. Very Shaky!

Classic Characters with years of on-panel feats should be given some sort of advantage in these forums. These idiotic story-lines with characters that carry "Instant Street Cred" keep turning the continuity upside down.

Juggernaut's powers have always been a roller-coaster ride, due to the writer's needs for Marvel Heroes to triumph some how. But if his most long-lasting, high-end and consistent showings are to be used here, he defeats the Void. Or, Void just sees that it is not a winnable battle.

The Sorrow
Originally posted by Horrificus
Using other story-lines that ignore historic Marvel continuity (Onslaught) to bolster the feats of another character that makes a joke out of years of Marvel continuity (Sentry/Void) is a definite house-of-cards. Very Shaky!

Classic Characters with years of on-panel feats should be given some sort of advantage in these forums. These idiotic story-lines with characters that carry "Instant Street Cred" keep turning the continuity upside down.

Juggernaut's powers have always been a roller-coaster ride, due to the writer's needs for Marvel Heroes to triumph some how. But if his most long-lasting, high-end and consistent showings are to be used here, he defeats the Void. Or, Void just sees that it is not a winnable battle.
Even Juggernauts high end showings do not stop him from being stomped here

CosmicComet
Juggernaut's high end showings include things like him being unkillable by Oblivion.

And the magic in him being enough to warp and control the fabric of the universe.

psycho gundam
Originally posted by CosmicComet
I also don't remember that happening in Nightmare's dimension either. http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/hulkstrange5.jpg

"f**k.. your.. dimension.. *****!"

Colossus-Big C
Originally posted by The Sorrow
Even Juggernauts high end showings do not stop him from being stomped here Jugernaut survived being nullified (sent to oblivion by eternity) he then proceeded to stay for nearly an eternity untill he died of old age

Horrificus
Originally posted by psycho gundam
http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/hulkstrange5.jpg

"f**k.. your.. dimension.. *****!" That was actually Jarvis, dressed up as Nightmare and they were on the set of the Teletubbies.

psycho gundam
actually, you're just stoned, and lying.

The Sorrow
Originally posted by CosmicComet
Juggernaut's high end showings include things like him being unkillable by Oblivion.

And the magic in him being enough to warp and control the fabric of the universe.
Juggernaut died in Oblivion's realm.

It wasn't Juggernauts power he was empowered by the Trion.

Ptr_Grifin
He wasn't powered by the Trion. The Trion were the 3 beings he was after in that story.

CosmicComet
Originally posted by The Sorrow
Juggernaut died in Oblivion's realm.

It wasn't Juggernauts power he was empowered by the Trion.

Oblivion was not able to kill him. Oblivion let him go in-exchange for his magic powers that he learned from the Crimson Cosmos.

I'm not even talking about the trion story. I'm talking about when D'Spayre siphoned off all his energy, and he said juggernaut's magic is powerful enough to warp the universe. Juggernaut's body has that much potential, but he's content to be a high end brick.

KingD19
That's what happened to his powers!!! Like the energy attacks and stuff like that.

And yeah, after D'Spayre took his power and was supposed to have killed him, Cain was still alive as a skeleton.

psycho gundam
honestly, with void's weird power-set i could see sentry holding the gem in one hand and a defeated juggernaut in the other sort of like onslaught did.

CosmicComet
Originally posted by KingD19
That's what happened to his powers!!! Like the energy attacks and stuff like that.

Lol yeah. At one point when he was fighting the x-men, he was shooting energy blasts in rapid succession.

Even though he wasn't slinging them from his hands and they were rather shooting out from an 'aura' around his body, i was still reminded of vegeta for some reason. lol.

KingD19
The only problem with Onslaught holding the gem was that Cain had chucked it into space years before.

And yeah, it was just, energy orbs shooting out of random spots on his body, lol

The Sorrow
Originally posted by CosmicComet
Oblivion was not able to kill him. Oblivion let him go in-exchange for his magic powers that he learned from the Crimson Cosmos.

I'm not even talking about the trion story. I'm talking about when D'Spayre siphoned off all his energy, and he said juggernaut's magic is powerful enough to warp the universe. Juggernaut's body has that much potential, but he's content to be a high end brick.
Only he did die it was retconned. We all know Juggernaut will eventually be restored through Cytorraks help but KO or temporary death are still forum wins.

IIRC D'Spayre said something along the lines of he was siphoning the magiks directly from the Crimson Cosmos using Juggernaut as a conduit. Potential is great but this has been said about many characters by the way.

Void destroys him like Cap Uni did or Onslaught did or he gets his molecules dispersed.

Sin I AM
stalemate

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by CosmicComet
Juggernaut's high end showings include things like him being unkillable by Oblivion.

And the magic in him being enough to warp and control the fabric of the universe.

Eh? I'm pretty sure that Oblivion never went out of his way to try and kill Juggernaut after he was banished to that realm. As a matter of fact, simply being in that realm caused Juggernaut to age and eventually die (His hate slowed down the process but it turned to fear after he was defeated by Beast). Eventually, Oblivion or whatever considered Juggernaut an annoying bacteria and revived him in exchange for his mystic powers.

http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/497/hulk17210a.th.jpghttp://img189.imageshack.us/img189/2757/1918857xmenlegacy219zon.th.jpg

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Oblivion was not able to kill him. Oblivion let him go in-exchange for his magic powers that he learned from the Crimson Cosmos.

I'm not even talking about the trion story. I'm talking about when D'Spayre siphoned off all his energy, and he said juggernaut's magic is powerful enough to warp the universe. Juggernaut's body has that much potential, but he's content to be a high end brick.

I don't think that scene was saying what you think. His own power -augmented by the energy of the Crimson Gem- allowed him to rebuild the gates to Oblivion so he could summon his horde and attempt to conquer Earth:
http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/1896/juggernautdspayre.th.jpg

But he wasn't suddenly Franklin Richards due to the Crimson energies or whatever. I can double check (Been a while since I read the issue) but I doubt I'm forgetting anything.

Rage.Of.Olympus
In regards to this thread, Juggernaut's very tough to kill (Particularly when his filled with hate or whatever) but his powers managed to end Loki who's also nigh impossible to end through conventional means and he overpowered Molecule Man etc. As such, his the clear winner here. Wouldn't be surprised if he even killed Cain.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by CosmicComet
Did Nightmare at this time have the power to trap Eternity AND be above classic strange's ability to defeat? And was he corrupting an entire multiverse of earths?

I also don't remember that happening in Nightmare's dimension either.

I missed this the first time around, talk about excluding f*cking context.

Nightmare didn't trap shit, Eternity allowed himself to be bound because why the hell not, their actions are irrelevant to him:
http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/4793/drstrange18218.th.jpghttp://img718.imageshack.us/img718/9551/drstrange18219.th.jpg

As you can see by the quick and effortless ownage, Nightmare was no threat.

In regards to the battle with Strange, the only reason Nightmare wasn't beaten this time around (Which from what I can tell is how it usually goes) was because he learned some kind of counter-spell to turn the eye against Strange:
http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/5561/strangenightmare1.th.jpghttp://img204.imageshack.us/img204/268/strangenightmare2.th.jpg

Not sure how he learned the spell or whatever but IIRC, Strange bested him in their next encounter. For the record, just because this was "classic" Strange, it doesn't mean his some all powerful sorcerer.

What's this about the Multiverse by the way? I don't remember any of that in the comic.

Here's Juggernaut's battle with Nightmare for those who are interested:
http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/8775/nightmarejuggernaut1.th.jpghttp://img20.imageshack.us/img20/5893/nightmarejuggernaut2.th.jpg

A good showing (Juggernaut's best in regards to power) but ultimately irrelevant, he lost any mystic might he learned in Oblivion.

KillAll
Originally posted by Stoic
Can you verify that Cain was depowered at that period in time? What book was it stated that Strange did this, and was it respected by the author as canon at that point in time? The harness that Hulk wore did not make him do anything that he was incapable of doing on his own, it just allowed him to focus his rage better. If that same device were to be placed on Captain America it would not increase his strength.


actually what apocalypse did to hulk was much more than focus his "rage". it allowed him to harness the energy of the heroes reborn universe as well as the 616 universe, due to hulk being in 1, and banner in the other.

it was also stated that juggernauts magic (the crismson bands of cyttorak) didnt function against this new energy hulk was emitting. dr strange cast the bands around hulk (in issue 450 i believe) and they busted like glass because of hulks green aura (the same one he engulfed his body in, which in turn negated juggernauts magic, which is why he stopped him).


as to the fight at hand, i doubt juggernaut would win the fight... although a full powered juggernaut wouldnt be harmed either wink

janus77
Originally posted by KillAll
actually what apocalypse did to hulk was much more than focus his "rage". it allowed him to harness the energy of the heroes reborn universe as well as the 616 universe, due to hulk being in 1, and banner in the other.

it was also stated that juggernauts magic (the crismson bands of cyttorak) didnt function against this new energy hulk was emitting. dr strange cast the bands around hulk (in issue 450 i believe) and they busted like glass because of hulks green aura (the same one he engulfed his body in, which in turn negated juggernauts magic, which is why he stopped him).


as to the fight at hand, i doubt juggernaut would win the fight... although a full powered juggernaut wouldnt be harmed either wink
Apocalypse's Celestial artefacts didn't give Hulk access to the powers of the Heroes Reborn universe, Hulk was the nexus between both universes before and after that. Those energies were running through him all along.

All the 'tech' did was to regulate them so that WarHulk couldn't amp like classic Hulk could, it allowed him to operate at an elevated but constant level (basically twice as strong as he was prior to the procedure).

Aakla
Originally posted by Damborgson
The god blast pushed him back actually. Not just slowed him.

Juggernaut was standing still when Thor hit him with it and that moved Jugs back a step. Jugs then started moving forward overpowering the Godblast.

the whole, you cant stop the juggernaut thing is about once he gets his forward momentum, not knocking him back while he is standing still.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Sin I AM
stalemate Are you serious ?

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by Aakla
Juggernaut was standing still when Thor hit him with it and that moved Jugs back a step. Jugs then started moving forward overpowering the Godblast.

the whole, you cant stop the juggernaut thing is about once he gets his forward momentum, not knocking him back while he is standing still. Stop watching X-Men The Last STand and read comic appearances of Juggernaut.

KillAll
Originally posted by janus77
Apocalypse's Celestial artefacts didn't give Hulk access to the powers of the Heroes Reborn universe, Hulk was the nexus between both universes before and after that. Those energies were running through him all along.

All the 'tech' did was to regulate them so that WarHulk couldn't amp like classic Hulk could, it allowed him to operate at an elevated but constant level (basically twice as strong as he was prior to the procedure).


yes, but it also negated juggernauts magic (proved when he stopped juggernauts charge, a magic attack, and also when hulk shattered the crimson bands of cyttorak like glass, when dr strange cast them when he has NEVER done that before wink)

so thats all i was trying to say thanks for agreeing with me big grin

h1a8
Sentry can win by bfr. Other than it Juggs can't lose.

Rage.Of.Olympus
How exactly is he going to win?

muchacho
.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
How exactly is he going to win? Who Void ? Please tell me you are really not asking how Voidtry wins here.

h1a8
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
How exactly is he going to win?

I didn't say he will win. I said he can't lose if bfr is not an option.

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
In regards to this thread, Juggernaut's very tough to kill (Particularly when his filled with hate or whatever) but his powers managed to end Loki who's also nigh impossible to end through conventional means and he overpowered Molecule Man etc. As such, his the clear winner here. Wouldn't be surprised if he even killed Cain. thumb up

guy222
void

zoom3
Sentry/Void wins. Hands down.

SamZED
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
In regards to this thread, Juggernaut's very tough to kill (Particularly when his filled with hate or whatever) but his powers managed to end Loki who's also nigh impossible to end through conventional means and he overpowered Molecule Man etc. As such, his the clear winner here. Wouldn't be surprised if he even killed Cain. Wasnt it confirmed that Loki allowed it to happen?
Also, his durability is not on Juggs level, or were you talking about his versatility?

Aakla
"Stop watching X-Men The Last STand and read comic appearances of Juggernaut." (sorry my quote key didn't work for some reason)

It was from comics (x-force) when x-force and spiderman went up against juggernaut. I think Warpath knocked down Juggernaut after Shatterstar cut up his face or something. Juggernaut got up and said something along the lines of "you don't get it to you? knock me down 100 times and I'll get up the 101st just as fresh as ever"
as for the forward momentum, that's been stated about juggernaut since day 1.

the only thing Juggernaut did in the x-men movie was break his neck running into a brick wall.

the ninjak
Void.

Didn't Cyclops always blast Juggs helmet off back in the day?
Why can't Sentry just do that? Then mess his head up.

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.