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who wins ?

Strange with ease. He stops times on Surfer.

Surfer can manipulate time just as well. So I don't see Strange having better control on that front.

Surfer phases his board through Strange's auto-shields and fuses it into Strange's chest, for the win.

Magic > Power Cosmic. Strange wins.

Magic>Power Cosmic, but Surfer's personal durability>Stephen's. I'm leaning towards Strange, but it's kinda 50/50 quick draw.

While I would agree that Magic > PC because it kinda simply throws away all laws of physics and therefore should be better doesn't the power cosmic does the exact same thing, that it comes down to who is more powerful in general?

ss should be able to perform a hundred actions before strange does anything. question is would his shield hold against ss's opening attack. it might. if it does he could take ss out since ss doesn't typically use shields of his own. i'd say it's kind of a split.

Originally posted by janus77
Surfer can manipulate time just as well. So I don't see Strange having better control on that front.

Surfer phases his board through Strange's auto-shields and fuses it into Strange's chest, for the win.

Sounds good except for the fact what Surfer was focused on was an illusion. Meanwhile Doc channels Agamotto for a blast koing Surfer.

Steve for the win.

Originally posted by Nihilist
who wins ?

No prep for either side?

Surfer wins with absolute ease; this is spite against Strange....

Surfer can move at superluminal velocity; he'll hit and kill Strange before he could raise shields or perform any other action (much less complete a single thought)...

Once again, this is complete spite in a forum fight; in a comicbook (which is loaded with PIS) Strange might win, but not in a PIS'less, CIS-less, forum environment...

I see cant anyone beneath a non-jobbing Watcher defeating a CIS-less Surfer convincingly...

Given his power and skill set, he's like a mini Cube Being; only limited by his imagination and the amount of matter and energy he can manipulate at once...

Edit: Scratch that; The Runner should be able to defeat a CIS-less Surfer...

You got two complete "Whatever the hell you can think of" characters in here. Problem is, one's many times faster, and one has "human" durability.

Surfer

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
No prep for either side?

Surfer wins with absolute ease; this is spite against Strange....

Surfer can move at superluminal velocity; he'll hit and kill Strange before he could raise shields or perform any other action (much less complete a single thought)...

Once again, this is complete spite in a forum fight; in a comicbook (which is loaded with PIS) Strange might win, but not in a PIS'less, CIS-less, forum environment... With cis removed Strange would start with his auto shields and Strange has easily reacted to Surfer trying to attack him at over FTL speeds.

Strange can stop time

Originally posted by Nihilist
With cis removed Strange would start with his auto shields and Strange has easily reacted to Surfer trying to attack him at over FTL speeds.

Why would CIS-less mean auto-shields?

No, CIS-less means he'll fight out of character and not adhere to comicbook stupidity...

Strange would need prep to start off with shields (which was not given to him in the OP)...

Sans prep, this fight is over the instant the bell rings...

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Why would CIS-less mean auto-shields?Because in his classic days he used to walk around with them on all the time.

Not really as shown in above post..

As for Strange reacting to Surfer in a comicbook, there is no PIS in a forum fight, and PIS would absolutely be required for someone moving at less than 'c' to react to something moving faster than 'c.'

Originally posted by h1a8
Strange can stop time

Strange would have to think "stop time" before he could even begin to perform the spell needed to cause it...

Strange dies long, long, before the thought process "stop time" completes itself...

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
As for Strange reacting to Surfer in a comicbook, there is no PIS in a forum fight, and PIS would absolutely be required for someone moving at less than 'c' to react to something moving faster than 'c.' Look before we get into a slanging match, you do know Strange doesnt just "see" Surfer in order to react to him dont you.

Originally posted by Nihilist
Because in his classic days he used to walk around with them on all the time.

Not really as shown in above post..

He may have walked around with them, but not all the time...

In addition, in the OP, there is no mention of him starting with shields...

But even if Strange starts with shields (minus CIS and PIS) the Surfer can still (quite literally) perform millions of actions before Strange can perform one...

Minus comicbook stupidity and CIS, Strange still has no prayer here...

i assumed auto-shields. if he doesn't have shields up in this type of fight strange is slaughtered before he realizes he's been slaughtered.

Strange sometimes had his auto shields on in classic. Well, I don't remember him having auto shields on at the height of his powers (been a while), but after all his artifacts got destroyed he had them on... sometimes.

Also, Strange reacted to FrankenSurfer. Not real Surfer

Originally posted by Nihilist
Look before we get into a slanging match, you do know Strange doesnt just "see" Surfer in order to react to him dont you.

Even if he doesnt have to "see" him, he still has to percieve him, form a plan of action (think up what he has to do), then actually perform the action...

Strange does not have enough time to do these things before Surfer kills him minus PIS...

Edit: had to plug in the bolded word 'not.'

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
He may have walked around with them, but not all the time...

In addition, in the OP, there is no mention of him starting with shields...

But even if Strange starts with shields (minus CIS and PIS) the Surfer can still (quite literally) perform millions of actions before Strange can perform one...

Minus comicbook stupidity and CIS, Strange still has no prayer here... I created the thread, so strange gets his auto shields as they are both fighting at their best just as Surfer is allowed to use his speed.

Read some Strange please, Doc has ftl feats of his own and his sheild has stood up to Galactus and Death....so its not as easy as you say.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Even if he doesnt have to "see" him, he still has to percieve him, form a plan of action (think up what he has to do), then actually perform the action...

Strange does have enough time to do these things before Surfer kills him minus PIS... Seriously wasting my time here, read up on Strange and his power and artifacts and how they work.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
He may have walked around with them, but not all the time...

In addition, in the OP, there is no mention of him starting with shields... If they walked around with shields the majority of time it's considered "standard equipment"

Standard Equipment doesn't need to get stated in the OP.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
If they walked around with shields the majority of time it's considered "standard equipment"

Standard Equipment doesn't need to get stated in the OP.

Perhaps, but ultimately it doesnt matter; Strange is far, far, far, too slow to do anything against Surfer...

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Strange sometimes had his auto shields on in classic. Well, I don't remember him having auto shields on at the height of his powers (been a while), but after all his artifacts got destroyed he had them on... sometimes.

Also, Strange reacted to FrankenSurfer. Not real Surfer

It was still the power cosmic.

As for auto shields, I don't see what the fuss is about. They have been shown to react at light speed.

Originally posted by Nihilist
Seriously wasting my time here, read up on Strange and his power and artifacts and how they work.

Your not wasting your time...

I'm just trying to get you to understand the "no PIS" rule in a forum fight...

PIS is required to react to something moving at the speed of light (or faster) when you are moving at less than c...

Since this no PIS rule is present, Stranges ftl feats are meaningless as Strange doesnt really have ftl reflexes or speed; its all based on massive amounts of PIS (afterall, Strange is just a normal human physically)...which is not present in this setting.

Originally posted by Sundipped
It was still the power cosmic. No it wasn't.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Your not wasting your time...

I'm just trying to get you to understand the "no PIS" rule in a forum fight...

PIS is required to react to something moving at the speed of light (or faster) when you are moving at less than c...

Since this no PIS rule is present, Stranges ftl feats are meaningless as Strange doesnt really have ftl reflexes or speed; its all based on massive amounts of PIS (afterall, Strange is just a normal human physically)...which is not present in this setting. Yeah im wasting my time "Strange is just a normal human" and "doesnt have any ftl reflexes or speed" and "its all PIS"

Even with CIS off current Strange is not what he use to be. BUt if he is allowed BFR maybe send surfer to some terrible dimension where his powers will be drained or something. but Anyway betting on surfer.

thinking about this fight again, I say Surfer should win out. Strange's shields have reacted to a 'fast' attack from Surfer once, iirc, but that was a CIS Surfer who never pressed his numerable advantages.

Same with how Surfer lets Thor hit him or waits around to get blasted or lets mjolnir return to Thor (why not trap it in the board - it can trap Quasar, it can trap the mallet, or better yet, bfr it into a black hole?).

Here, I can see Surfer turning the air inside Strange's shields into knockout gas or even just outright exploding Strange within his shields.

The shields would not prevent Surfer from phasing or manipulating the matter within, merely prevent objects penetrating them from without.


btw, PC > Magic, imo.

Originally posted by Nihilist
Yeah im wasting my time "Strange is just a normal human" and "doesnt have any ftl reflexes or speed" and "its all PIS"
Strange got beat up by Hiroim, I think. hardly speaks of durability or fast reflexes.

The way I see the auto-shields and their speed, is that they are an independent programme running continuously and requiring no active input from Strange. Otherwise, they would be useless.

Originally posted by janus77
Strange got beat up by Hiroim, I think. hardly speaks of durability or fast reflexes.You mean Strange had his hands already broken iirc, and that wasnt classic Strange. And at having to use low showings in a CIS less fight.

His shields are just there, irrc correctly one time his was randomly struck by lightining and his shield took the hit.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
No it wasn't.

Dr. Frankenstein created a duplicate of Surfer using his own pc.

Originally posted by Sundipped
Dr. Frankenstein created a duplicate of Surfer using his own pc. Strange calls it an ersatz version of the power cosmic. It was a weaker version

Also this (same issue as the "auto shields":
http://s1134.photobucket.com/albums/m610/sonnendawg/?action=view&current=DrStrangeSorcerersupre37-21.jpg

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Strange calls it an ersatz version of the power cosmic. It was a weaker version

Also this (same issue as the "auto shields":
http://s1134.photobucket.com/albums/m610/sonnendawg/?action=view&current=DrStrangeSorcerersupre37-21.jpg

hmm, I think I will have to strengthen my position regarding Surfer getting past the shields.

Surfer would definitely win a majority, CIS free, against Strange.

Originally posted by janus77
hmm, I think I will have to strengthen my position regarding Surfer getting past the shields.

Surfer would definitely win a majority, CIS free, against Strange. Wait a sec you want to play on the cis part, yet Galactus and Death couldnt get past Stranges shields but that scan isnt pis.

Originally posted by Nihilist
Wait a sec you want to play on the cis part, yet Galactus and Death couldnt get past Stranges shields but that scan isnt pis. It's in the same issue that Strange's auto shields stems from (or the most common example).

And that's his auto shield, not his other shields (mind you those have been broken by far less than Surfer).

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
It's in the same issue that Strange's auto shields stems from (or the most common example).

And that's his auto shield, not his other shields (mind you those have been broken by far less than Surfer). And stood up to greater than Surfer, works boths ways.

Originally posted by Nihilist
Wait a sec you want to play on the cis part, yet Galactus and Death couldnt get past Stranges shields but that scan isnt pis.
and your argument here being?

Galactus jobs, it's what he does and he's the best at what he does!

Death ... dunno, outside of embarrassing Thanos I can't recall much of what she's done that's at all noteworthy.

Ah! yes, wiping out the Cancerverse, but that I gather was more akin to being the catalytic in some huge cosmic-chain-reaction.

Anyway, back on-topic, Surfer gets past Strange's auto-shield, either by phasing or by constantly blasting and cumulatively wearing down Strange, whilst at the same time remaining intangible and projecting illusions and using multiple boards as further points of attack.

Originally posted by janus77
and your argument here being?

Galactus jobs, it's what he does and he's the best at what he does!

Death ... dunno, outside of embarrassing Thanos I can't recall much of what she's done that's at all noteworthy.

Ah! yes, wiping out the Cancerverse, but that I gather was more akin to being the catalytic in some huge cosmic-chain-reaction.

Anyway, back on-topic, Surfer gets past Strange's auto-shield, either by phasing or by constantly blasting and cumulatively wearing down Strange, whilst at the same time remaining intangible and projecting illusions and using multiple boards as further points of attack. Just your usual excuses,bullshit and a bit of baiting...good job proving what i thought.

Originally posted by Nihilist
And stood up to greater than Surfer, works boths ways.
Good thing that Surfer can phase through stuff then, as well as draw power from the environment to boost his attacks, if need be .

Originally posted by janus77
Good thing that Surfer can phase through stuff then, as well as draw power from the environment to boost his attacks, if need be . Show me Surfer phasing through blasts or shielding then, i forgot Strange doesnt have a vast resource of power and powerful beings to draw from.

Originally posted by Nihilist
Just your usual excuses,bullshit and a bit of baiting...good job proving what i thought.
ah, excuses... like the ones you are handing out to negate from on-panel evidence that fake-Surfer's blast was getting through Strange's auto-shield?

dunno about the baiting though ... I'll gladly concede that you're the master there ... I think you're the one with the kleenex shares and the Thanos undies

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Strange would have to think "stop time" before he could even begin to perform the spell needed to cause it...

Strange dies long, long, before the thought process "stop time" completes itself...


First of all, let me correct something. Surfer can't do a million different things (as far as attacking) before Strange or any human makes a thought. Not even close. Surfer has great speed and great reactions but that doesn't mean that each exotic attacking action is so fast than he can do X amount one after the other faster than Strange can think. For example, Surfer can blast probably faster than Strange can think but he can't blast and then after do a different type of attack all before Strange can think.

Second, a character doesn't have to move with the same speed as the attack in order to defend against it. If a bullet travels 100ft towards a being then that being must be able to move around a couple of feet while the bullet is in the air in order to move out of the way. That means he must have 2/100th or .02 or 2% of the bullets speed in order to defend against it. Now if the bullet started at 500 meters or about 1500ft away (battle distance) then he would need to move at 2/1500th or .0013 or 0.13% of the speed of the bullet to defend.

Finally, can Strange move with 0.13% of the speed of light? Well he is amped with magic and thus his whole person is above human levels (perception is different too). This includes both speed and reflexes. So it is plausible that he's this fast. But if he isn't then at least he has auto shields to blunt the initial attacks in order to stop time and beat Surfer at his leisure.

It all depends on the strength of the auto shields if you ask me.

Originally posted by Nihilist
Show me Surfer phasing through blasts or shielding then, i forgot Strange doesnt have a vast resource of power and powerful beings to draw from.
go check the respect thread, it's a basic part of Surfer's powerset.

as regards Strange's resources, they exist and are very powerful indeed.. but they take time, which he does not have, they take effort, which he cannot afford to spare from the immediate objective of keeping his shit from being annihilated instantly and in most cases they would constitute outside help

Originally posted by janus77
ah, excuses... like the ones you are handing out to negate from on-panel evidence that fake-Surfer's blast was getting through Strange's auto-shield?Like i said yet Surfer master Galactus couldnt eh, and Starnge going toe to toe with the Inbetweener.

Wow a 10yrs old comeback, i must have owned you bad.

Originally posted by Nihilist
Wow a 10yrs old comeback...
age appropriate response

Originally posted by janus77
go check the respect thread, it's a basic part of Surfer's powerset.I have and there is NOTHING showing him doing it to shielding or blasts capable of what Strange produces.

Strange has ftl reflex feats, so he has all the time needed, plus unaided or protected he has taken hits from Hulk and Juggernaut and been fine.

Originally posted by janus77
age appropriate response Really, show me my childish comeback like what you posted then like this.

Originally posted by janus77
dunno about the baiting though ... I'll gladly concede that you're the master there ... I think you're the one with the kleenex shares and the Thanos undies

Originally posted by h1a8
First of all, let me correct something. Surfer can't do a million different things (as far as attacking) before Strange or any human makes a thought. Not even close. Surfer has great speed and great reactions but that doesn't mean that each exotic attacking action is so fast than he can do X amount one after the other faster than Strange can think. For example, Surfer can blast probably faster than Strange can think but he can't blast and then after do a different type of attack all before Strange can think.

hmm, not so sure about that.... he thinks at nano-speeds and has tracked and captured a dancing electron (think it was an electron, or something similar) that moved at c. his speed advantage would be very large imo. i DO agree his exotic abilities could take longer though, but i do think he could blitz and get off a LOT of blasts before stephen could think about it. like you though, i question his shields. if ss can break them he wins. if strange can get off an attack, there is a good chance he could win. i for one don't think ss could manipulate the environment through the shields. it would fall to ss to break them. or strange would likely take him out.

Originally posted by Nihilist
And stood up to greater than Surfer, works boths ways. I realize. But "Galactus and Death" is not even close to the norm for his shield strength.

Fact is, in the same comic where everyone is like "OMG look at how powerful his auto shields are" his auto shields don't hold up against the same guy (who is a weaker version of Silver Surfer with less experience) when he puts a little more into it.

Originally posted by Nihilist
Really, show me my childish comeback like what you posted then like this.
I said age appropriate, not that you had any form of wit!
I discerned your age from the general standard of your arguments.
Either a 10yr old or a very gifted potted plant.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
I realize. But "Galactus and Death" is not even close to the norm for his shield strength.

Fact is, in the same comic where everyone is like "OMG look at how powerful his auto shields are" his auto shields don't hold up against the same guy (who is a weaker version of Silver Surfer with less experience) when he puts a little more into it. But we are using them at their best without cis, so it makes sense for Strange to be using his strongest form of shielding to counter Surfer clear speed advantage to make this a real debate and not "fight ends in 0000.1 second" moron stance.

Originally posted by janus77
I said age appropriate, not that you had any form of wit!
I discerned your age from the general standard of your arguments.
Either a 10yr old or a very gifted potted plant. "yawn" yeah you u mad about my handing you your ass sometime.

Originally posted by Nihilist
But we are using them at their best without cis, so it makes sense for Strange to be using his strongest form of shielding to counter Surfer clear speed advantage to make this a real debate and not "fight ends in 0000.1 second" moron stance. And without PIS. Otherwise we have a Surfer who is powerful enough to beat Rune with the IG vs Strange who's shield can stand up to Death vs Galactus...
I'm putting my money on Surfer there...

CIS doesn't make his shield weaker or stronger, plot does. Unless it says his own mind is weakening his shield...

His auto shields make this a real fight. And as we have seen... they aren't without fail. Which makes me believe Surfer ends him

Originally posted by Nihilist
"yawn" yeah you u mad about my handing you your ass sometime.
Really? You do realise that you're the one making basic grammatical and logical mistakes. If anything you're the one who comes across as closest to 'tipping point'.

As for the business of handing people their arses, I only care for shapely ones of the feminine form, I neither grope nor deliver any other kind... I just merely out wit and out think

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Strange calls it an ersatz version of the power cosmic. It was a weaker version

Also this (same issue as the "auto shields":
http://s1134.photobucket.com/albums/m610/sonnendawg/?action=view&current=DrStrangeSorcerersupre37-21.jpg


Ok. No disputing what I said. Its still pc.

Of course you're not gonna see auto shields every occasion from Steve vs. an opponent. What kind of writing would it be then?

Originally posted by Sundipped
Ok. No disputing what I said. Its still pc.

Of course you're not gonna see auto shields every occasion from Steve vs. an opponent. What kind of writing would it be then? Just thought you were trying to say it was equal to Surfer. Lot's of things are PC in that case. It doesn't mean much

He did have auto shields though... and it was from the same issue as the commonly brought up case of his "auto shields", that people use to say how powerful they are. Can't get more clear cut than that.

One thing about this fight is both know each other very well. In a CISless fight, no doubt Doc has the means to counter a blitz from Surfer. He'd probably be expecting it from the get go. Don't see how people put much stock into a blitzing opponent going up against a being capable of projecting illusions/absorbing energy (not just magic)/ energy projection on a scale to harm abstracts/shields able to withstand high order demons etc. Surfer is phucked.

Doesn't matter if "he's expecting it", he can't process thoughts and thus cannot perform spells fast enough to do anything about it.

This fight resolves to simply Surfer vs Strange's auto-shields. Because the speed, reflex and durability gap is so huge that Strange's conscious actions won't have time to enter into the equation.

Surfer wins via board to the brain .

Surfer wins.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Just thought you were trying to say it was equal to Surfer. Lot's of things are PC in that case. It doesn't mean much

He did have auto shields though... and it was from the same issue as the commonly brought up case of his "auto shields", that people use to say how powerful they are. Can't get more clear cut than that.

The shield used against bootleg Surfer was Shield of Seraphim which is not the standard auto shield. If anything it shows versatility in shielding. The Eye (on his person) has reacted at light speed before not to mention blocking Deathurge on its own. Doc doesn't even need to percieve Surfer face to face.

Originally posted by janus77
Doesn't matter if "he's expecting it", he can't process thoughts and thus cannot perform spells fast enough to do anything about it.

This fight resolves to simply Surfer vs Strange's auto-shields. Because the speed, reflex and durability gap is so huge that Strange's conscious actions won't have time to enter into the equation.

Surfer wins via board to the brain .

I bet a board to the brain won't work on his astral form. This isn't about just speed and reflexes. Doc has other means to make it even. You have to think outside the box. Doc has too many options.

Originally posted by Sundipped
The shield used against bootleg Surfer was Shield of Seraphim which is not the standard auto shield. If anything it shows versatility in shielding. The Eye (on his person) has reacted at light speed before not to mention blocking Deathurge on its own. Doc doesn't even need to percieve Surfer face to face. If inferiour Surfer got through the Shield of Seraphim used as an auto shield, then I feel even worse about Strange's chances at his no thought auto shield holding up. Seeing as the Shield of Seraphim is most certainly more durable than an auto shield. But if that's what you want to believe, than sure, why can't it be the Shield of Seraphim?

Deathurge's arrows aren't to my knowledge used as a destructive force. They just jam into people and fudge them up.

The Eye absorbed something going straight for the Eye... once. I don't see why it would protect him from any other angle of attack

Originally posted by Sundipped
I bet a board to the brain won't work on his astral form. This isn't about just speed and reflexes. Doc has other means to make it even. You have to think outside the box. Doc has too many options.
You would be right if the speed difference wasn't so vast AND the durability of Strange was up there in the Surfer range.

They start off corporeal, and before Strange can think, Surfer's lodged the board in Strange's brain. Strange is a corpse.

IF the speed gap was small, then you could see Strange pulling off some evasive manoeuvres and then uttering some spell or what have you.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
If inferiour Surfer got through the Shield of Seraphim used as an auto shield, then I feel even worse about Strange's chances at his no thought auto shield holding up. Seeing as the Shield of Seraphim is most certainly more durable than an auto shield. But if that's what you want to believe, than sure, why can't it be the Shield of Seraphim?

Deathurge's arrows aren't to my knowledge used as a destructive force. They just jam into people and fudge them up.

The Eye absorbed something going straight for the Eye... once. I don't see why it would protect him from any other angle of attack

yeah, can't say i've ever seen the eye simply act of it own volition to block an attack like ss will put out....

it comes down to whether you think the shields will hold. i think that proposition is a toss-up, and i'd favor ss's odds for getting through.

for fun though, i've heard about strange's ftl reflexes bandied about more than once. does anyone have scans of these instances....?

Originally posted by janus77
You would be right if the speed difference wasn't so vast AND the durability of Strange was up there in the Surfer range.

They start off corporeal, and before Strange can think, Surfer's lodged the board in Strange's brain. Strange is a corpse.

IF the speed gap was small, then you could see Strange pulling off some evasive manoeuvres and then uttering some spell or what have you. If Strange can even stand up to zom what chance does surfer have...

Originally posted by Uriel005
If Strange can even stand up to zom what chance does surfer have...
If Zom was attacking Strange at FTL speeds, then fair enough but, I don't think that was the case.

A prepped Strange is different from a CIS free random encounter Strange.

He can't instantly summon the kinds of powers he called upon against Zom.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
If inferiour Surfer got through the Shield of Seraphim used as an auto shield, then I feel even worse about Strange's chances at his no thought auto shield holding up. Seeing as the Shield of Seraphim is most certainly more durable than an auto shield. But if that's what you want to believe, than sure, why can't it be the Shield of Seraphim?

Deathurge's arrows aren't to my knowledge used as a destructive force. They just jam into people and fudge them up.

The Eye absorbed something going straight for the Eye... once. I don't see why it would protect him from any other angle of attack

Can't post the scan now but it stopped his initial attack.

Deathurge's arrows have murdered Watchers so it does have merit as a destructive force.

The Eye reacted to protect Strange himself and countered with energy projection of its own. Once Surfers beam is cancelled out then what?

Originally posted by janus77
You would be right if the speed difference wasn't so vast AND the durability of Strange was up there in the Surfer range.

They start off corporeal, and before Strange can think, Surfer's lodged the board in Strange's brain. Strange is a corpse.

IF the speed gap was small, then you could see Strange pulling off some evasive manoeuvres and then uttering some spell or what have you.

The Eye would buy him time. And its not like Steve has human durability. Being able to take shots from Hulk and a amped Juggs is a indication. So even if Surfer managed the first lick its not a instant auto win.

Why are people ignoring the fact that Strange can stop time. All his shields have to do his hold up the first moment after the bell.

Originally posted by Sundipped
Can't post the scan now but it stopped his initial attack.

Deathurge's arrows have murdered Watchers so it does have merit as a destructive force.

The Eye reacted to protect Strange himself and countered with energy projection of its own. Once Surfers beam is cancelled out then what? I hope you realize that you're trying to defend his auto shields by saying it wasn't auto shields but actually more powerful shields that were able to absorb power and send recoil back...

I'm not saying they aren't powerful when they hit a being, what I'm questioning is their destructive force. IE the force needed to destroy a shield.
Then you have Deathurge not acting the least bit surprised, and it doesn't seem that big of a feat. A decent reaction feat, yes. Decent shield feat? Not really.

It countered it head on. It's like saying that just because Surfer's board blocks attacks, that it would block an attack where the board isn't.
Then Surfer moves slightly to the left and tries again.

Originally posted by leonidas
yeah, can't say i've ever seen the eye simply act of it own volition to block an attack like ss will put out....

it comes down to whether you think the shields will hold. i think that proposition is a toss-up, and i'd favor ss's odds for getting through.

for fun though, i've heard about strange's ftl reflexes bandied about more than once. does anyone have scans of these instances....? Oh but CIS off Strange has auto shields all the time, his Eye blocks attacks all the time, and he has additional shields up all the time...

Same here Leo.

...
Um

POriginally posted by Sr J-Bieb
I hope you realize that you're trying to defend his auto shields by saying it wasn't auto shields but actually more powerful shields that were able to absorb power and send recoil back...

I'm not saying they aren't powerful when they hit a being, what I'm questioning is their destructive force. IE the force needed to destroy a shield.
Then you have Deathurge not acting the least bit surprised, and it doesn't seem that big of a feat. A decent reaction feat, yes. Decent shield feat? Not really.

It countered it head on. It's like saying that just because Surfer's board blocks attacks, that it would block an attack where the board isn't.
Then Surfer moves slightly to the left and tries again.

Looking back at it, Doc looked impressive against it, auto shield or not. He took the initial blast then shielded himself. All this while trying to figure out what the hell was going on. He wasn't even trying to harm who he thought was the real Surfer but the impostor Surfer (with the real power cosmic) certainly was.

Yes it was a good reaction feat but considering all that Doc has shielded himself against, it doesn't matter what degree of destructive force (if any) Deathurges arrows possess.

Ok so now Surfer gets time to move around. Guess what that does? Gives Doc time to think. Now add a thinking Steve + auto shield if necessary + superhuman durability + the Eye which absorbs any energy reacting at light speed + the normal high caliber shields, and it equals a raped/molested/dead as a doorknob Surfer.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Oh but CIS off Strange has auto shields all the time, his Eye blocks attacks all the time, and he has additional shields up all the time...

Same here Leo.

...
Um

In a CISless forum fight vs. Surfer, (someone he knows extremely well), no reason for all of the above to not be in tact.

Originally posted by Sundipped
P

Looking back at it, Doc looked impressive against it, auto shield or not. He took the initial blast then shielded himself. All this while trying to figure out what the hell was going on. He wasn't even trying to harm who he thought was the real Surfer but the impostor Surfer (with the real power cosmic) certainly was.

Yes it was a good reaction feat but considering all that Doc has shielded himself against, it doesn't matter what degree of destructive force (if any) Deathurges arrows possess.

Ok so now Surfer gets time to move around. Guess what that does? Gives Doc time to think. Now add a thinking Steve + auto shield if necessary + superhuman durability + the Eye which absorbs any energy reacting at light speed + the normal high caliber shields, and it equals a raped/molested/dead as a doorknob Surfer. Uh huh.
Anyway, his auto shield can be busted through.

If Deathurge wasn't firing arrows, but rather beams of energy that killed Watchers... there's no reason to assume Strange's auto shield would protect him.

I said if his attack is canceled out.
But all of that happens in the time it takes Surfer to fire another blast...

Anyway
Surfer breaks through his auto shield and KO's him straight away. Like what the weaker FrankenSurfer did.

Originally posted by janus77
Really? You do realise that you're the one making basic grammatical and logical mistakes.Big deal about grammar mistakes Really, then why is it you follow me into other thread to troll me eh.

Pity youve never once shown to out wit or out think anyone...."thunderclap" wins against everything case in point

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Uh huh.
Anyway, his auto shield can be busted through.

If Deathurge wasn't firing arrows, but rather beams of energy that killed Watchers... there's no reason to assume Strange's auto shield would protect him.

I said if his attack is canceled out.
But all of that happens in the time it takes Surfer to fire another blast...

Anyway
Surfer breaks through his auto shield and KO's him straight away. Like what the weaker FrankenSurfer did.

Forget about a auto shield, the Eye will absorb any energy. So much for Surfers only hope. If he was able to tank then erect a shield vs. Power cosmic I don't see what the problem is. Like I said before Doc does have superhuman durability.

Debatable if energy beams from Deathhurge (or any other being of comparable stature) could get through.

You know why Doc was koed? That issue was drenched in PIS like pancakes in syrup. How the hell can Doc make it look easy first go round then fail later on? Because the plot had fake Surfer blast Doc/woman tries to help Doc (same woman who raised the guy who became fake Surfer)/woman gets killed in the blast/fake Surfer now overcome with grief commits suicide.

er, are you actually saying that in any fight, the eye will simply absorb any energy thrown at strange....?

did you post the scan of the eye absorbing an energy blast somewhere? and i'm still waiting (not sure it was you or someone else who brought it up so this is not directed at you personally) on the scans that show strange's ftl reflexes.....

Originally posted by leonidas
er, are you actually saying that in any fight, the eye will simply absorb any energy thrown at strange....?

did you post the scan of the eye absorbing an energy blast somewhere? and i'm still waiting (not sure it was you or someone else who brought it up so this is not directed at you personally) on the scans that show strange's ftl reflexes.....

No just this CISless fight due to Doc knowing about Surfers speed advantage.

The scan is in my respect thread. I'll see if I can post it later.

As a big Doc strange fan who has been read his stuff even up to his early strange tales appearances, I can say that on this forum the doc benefits from having one of the most misleading respects threads ive ever seen....its like it was created deliberately to distort what actually happened
In this fight though, he could win as he probably posesses more raw power than surfer ( on some days that is) but surfers speed advantage could be the killer.

Originally posted by Sundipped
Forget about a auto shield, the Eye will absorb any energy. So much for Surfers only hope. If he was able to tank then erect a shield vs. Power cosmic I don't see what the problem is. Like I said before Doc does have superhuman durability.

Debatable if energy beams from Deathhurge (or any other being of comparable stature) could get through.

You know why Doc was koed? That issue was drenched in PIS like pancakes in syrup. How the hell can Doc make it look easy first go round then fail later on? Because the plot had fake Surfer blast Doc/woman tries to help Doc (same woman who raised the guy who became fake Surfer)/woman gets killed in the blast/fake Surfer now overcome with grief commits suicide. Are you trying to ignore what I'm saying on purpose? Once again... the Eye can't absorb anything unless it's head on.
Plus, CIS doesn't mean that something acting of its own accord is going to work for Strange anyway, but I digress.

Uh huh... you completely missed the point.
Let me spell it out for you again. If an energy attack that was able to kill Watchers was fired at Strange when he wasn't paying attention, then there is absolutely no way his auto shields would hold up. Luckily, Deathurge's arrows don't have destructive power, but rather just plain up the ability to kill.

Or maybe Surfer tried a little harder because he was fairly pissed off at this point in time.
And are you trying to call PIS on something else when you're defending Strange? In the same post where you're trying to say Strange's auto shields could defend against something that kills Watchers? ha?

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Are you trying to ignore what I'm saying on purpose? Once again... the Eye can't absorb anything unless it's head on.
Plus, CIS doesn't mean that something acting of its own accord is going to work for Strange anyway, but I digress.

What makes you think Surfer wouldn't be attacking head on? You act as if Surfer is going to just change trajectory at the start of the fight. Under standard character and for all intents and purposes Surfer would be attacking head up. Why wouldn''t Doc have the Eye ready to react vs. a opponent of Surfers caliber CISless?

Originally posted by Sr-J-Bieb
Uh huh... you completely missed the point.
Let me spell it out for you again. If an energy attack that was able to kill Watchers was fired at Strange when he wasn't paying attention, then there is absolutely no way his auto shields would hold up. Luckily, Deathurge's arrows don't have destructive power, but rather just plain up the ability to kill.

Again this is debatable. Unless you have evidence of an auto shield completely failing, you can't say it won't hold up. The Eye would serve as the primary defense against Surfer anyway being that it's a more potent variety.

Originally posted by Sr-J-Bieb
Or maybe Surfer tried a little harder because he was fairly pissed off at this point in time.
And are you trying to call PIS on something else when you're defending Strange? In the same post where you're trying to say Strange's auto shields could defend against something that kills Watchers? ha?

There was PIS in the story. Strange had no problems while holding back vs. a pissed replica Surfer the first meeting. His superiority was shown beforehand before the fail. The plot involved dramatic circumstances involving the woman closely connected to Frankensurfer resulting in him killing himself.

Originally posted by Sundipped
What makes you think Surfer wouldn't be attacking head on? You act as if Surfer is going to just change trajectory at the start of the fight. Under standard character and for all intents and purposes Surfer would be attacking head up. Why wouldn''t Doc have the Eye ready to react vs. a opponent of Surfers caliber CISless?



Again this is debatable. Unless you have evidence of an auto shield completely failing, you can't say it won't hold up. The Eye would serve as the primary defense against Surfer anyway being that it's a more potent variety.



There was PIS in the story. Strange had no problems while holding back vs. a pissed replica Surfer the first meeting. His superiority was shown beforehand before the fail. The plot involved dramatic circumstances involving the woman closely connected to Frankensurfer resulting in him killing himself. Surfer is known to use cheap tactics in fights.
Also, because they was acting of it's own accord...

Sure thing. His auto shield failed against Surfer.

Or Surfer was outputting more power...

Spite against Strange; Surfer wins every single time in a nano-second...

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Surfer is known to use cheap tactics in fights.
Also, because they was acting of it's own accord...

Sure thing. His auto shield failed against Surfer.

Or Surfer was outputting more power...

Bran I'm sure you're an ok guy but this is a bullshit counter to my response.

You are entitled to your opinion, however it can't be respected. At least not by me.

Originally posted by Sundipped
Bran I'm sure you're an ok guy but this is a bullshit counter to my response.

You are entitled to your opinion, however it can't be respected. At least not by me. So you expect me to believe that the Eye's only real showcase of protecting Strange on panel actually means it can protect him from everything, from every angle?
And that Surfer doesn't actually pull cheap in his fights, like boards to back of heads, and dancing around firing blasts from every angle. Plus, you just said that under standard character portrayal that Surfer would be attacking head on in the same breath that you said CISless Strange would have his eye ready against everything Surfer like.
Really? So, Surfer is in character (not really), but Strange isn't?

Or that Strange's auto shield didn't fail against weak Surfer?

Or that it's impossible for a character to put more effort into a blast to accomplish something they failed before?

OK, sure thing. Let me forget everything I know about both characters so I can see things your way.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
So you expect me to believe that the Eye's only real showcase of protecting Strange on panel actually means it can protect him from everything, from every angle?
And that Surfer doesn't actually pull cheap in his fights, like boards to back of heads, and dancing around firing blasts from every angle. Plus, you just said that under standard character portrayal that Surfer would be attacking head on in the same breath that you said CISless Strange would have his eye ready against everything Surfer like.
Really? So, Surfer is in character (not really), but Strange isn't?

Or that Strange's auto shield didn't fail against weak Surfer?

Or that it's impossible for a character to put more effort into a blast to accomplish something they failed before?

OK, sure thing. Let me forget everything I know about both characters so I can see things your way.

This is real simple. Surfer attacks head up, the Eye absorbs the blast during which time Doc erects a shield. It's downhill for Surfer from that point on.

You can make the situation favorable for Surfer all you want but this is a forum fight. How often does Surfer "start" a fight by using evasive tactics like you mentioned anyway? Extremely rare to my knowledge.

Reason I give Doc the Eye counter defence is because he knows very well how fast Surfer is. I can't see a being of his intelligence not utilizing his best option in a case like this. It's really tailor made for this situation. If he had no knowledge whatsoever of Surfer then I would agree with you.

Doc handled him easily before. No need to bring it up anymore. The writer clearly intended for Doc to show submission later in the story in accordance to the plot. I can't see why that's so hard for you to grasp.

Originally posted by Sundipped
This is real simple. Surfer attacks head up, the Eye absorbs the blast during which time Doc erects a shield. It's downhill for Surfer from that point on.

You can make the situation favorable for Surfer all you want but this is a forum fight. How often does Surfer "start" a fight by using evasive tactics like you mentioned anyway? Extremely rare to my knowledge.

Reason I give Doc the Eye counter defence is because he knows very well how fast Surfer is. I can't see a being of his intelligence not utilizing his best option in a case like this. It's really tailor made for this situation. If he had no knowledge whatsoever of Surfer then I would agree with you.

Doc handled him easily before. No need to bring it up anymore. The writer clearly intended for Doc to show submission later in the story in accordance to the plot. I can't see why that's so hard for you to grasp. Even if that's how it happens, the eye snuffing out energy the one time it did it sure as hell took a while for a guy using it against Surfer. By that time, Surfer is already behind him.

Making a situation favorable? You have Strange using something that's only happened once in his half a century time in comics. You have Strange basically activating three shields before Surfer attacks twice. And then you ask how many times Surfer has attacked from the back at the start?
Even if Surfer's not allowed to attack Strange's back, he's fast enough to fire off a blast at the front, and then go around and hit him from the back.

So why does Strange get the benefit of the doubt here? Surfer also knows Strange, and knows how powerful he can be as the fight progresses. Surfer knows Strange is deadliest at his front. Surfer knows Strange just as well as Strange knows Surfer.

If by "handled him easily" means that he deflected one attack, and Surfer broke out of the Rings, then yes. Also, how are you claiming PIS on this? It can just as easily be called PIS the situation you're talking about. Or Surfer just tried harder... but the PIS route is a lot easier than that hey?
Yes, that's clearly what the writer meant. I can't wait to see the page where the writer explains what he wanted from this story.

Strange simply isn't durable enough to survive Surfer's initial onslaught. Or fast enough to do what he needs to to survive it. Even factoring in your stipulations.

Let's examine this shall we.
So, because Strange knows Surfer, that means that he'll activate the Eye at the beginning of the battle to protect him from any threats, even though the Eye has only done this once in 50 years of comic appearances, and it activated of its own accord. This will then allow him the time to activate the other shield he needs. All of this happens in the time it takes Surfer to attack once.

Surfer, even though he knows Strange just as well, isn't allowed to start the battle attacking Strange from behind (even though he's fast enough).

Double standard One.

Strange is allowed to use the Eye's auto defenses here because he knows Surfer and CIS is off. No questions asked.

Surfer is questioned that he would attack Strange from behind even though he knows Strange, and Surfer is pretty damn cheap.

Double standard Two.

The first battle with weaker FrankenSurfer is usable because it happened earlier in the comic, and because Strange was able to hold off Surfer.

The second battle with weaker FrankenSurfer isn't usuable because it happened later, even though Surfer was right pissed off at that point.

Double standard Three.

At the end of the day, you're having Strange use something he very rarely uses in that way, activates another shield, and he has to activate both with his mind (especially since you said he would make it work like this) before Surfer moves and blasts twice.

http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/5189/signalr.th.jpg http://img858.imageshack.us/img858/1474/signal2.th.jpg http://img862.imageshack.us/img862/6920/signal3.th.jpg http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/9106/signal4.th.jpg http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/6011/signal5.th.jpg http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/8996/signal6.th.jpg http://img863.imageshack.us/img863/6291/signal7.th.jpg

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Even if that's how it happens, the eye snuffing out energy the one time it did it sure as hell took a while for a guy using it against Surfer. By that time, Surfer is already behind him.

Making a situation favorable? You have Strange using something that's only happened once in his half a century time in comics. You have Strange basically activating three shields before Surfer attacks twice. And then you ask how many times Surfer has attacked from the back at the start?
Even if Surfer's not allowed to attack Strange's back, he's fast enough to fire off a blast at the front, and then go around and hit him from the back.

So why does Strange get the benefit of the doubt here? Surfer also knows Strange, and knows how powerful he can be as the fight progresses. Surfer knows Strange is deadliest at his front. Surfer knows Strange just as well as Strange knows Surfer.

If by "handled him easily" means that he deflected one attack, and Surfer broke out of the Rings, then yes. Also, how are you claiming PIS on this? It can just as easily be called PIS the situation you're talking about. Or Surfer just tried harder... but the PIS route is a lot easier than that hey?
Yes, that's clearly what the writer meant. I can't wait to see the page where the writer explains what he wanted from this story.

Strange simply isn't durable enough to survive Surfer's initial onslaught. Or fast enough to do what he needs to to survive it. Even factoring in your stipulations.

Let's examine this shall we.
So, because Strange knows Surfer, that means that he'll activate the Eye at the beginning of the battle to protect him from any threats, even though the Eye has only done this once in 50 years of comic appearances, and it activated of its own accord. This will then allow him the time to activate the other shield he needs. All of this happens in the time it takes Surfer to attack once.

Surfer, even though he knows Strange just as well, isn't allowed to start the battle attacking Strange from behind (even though he's fast enough).

Double standard One.

Strange is allowed to use the Eye's auto defenses here because he knows Surfer and CIS is off. No questions asked.

Surfer is questioned that he would attack Strange from behind even though he knows Strange, and Surfer is pretty damn cheap.

Double standard Two.

The first battle with weaker FrankenSurfer is usable because it happened earlier in the comic, and because Strange was able to hold off Surfer.

The second battle with weaker FrankenSurfer isn't usuable because it happened later, even though Surfer was right pissed off at that point.

Double standard Three.

At the end of the day, you're having Strange use something he very rarely uses in that way, activates another shield, and he has to activate both with his mind (especially since you said he would make it work like this) before Surfer moves and blasts twice.

So now you have Surfer zipping all over the place firing from multiple locations, bloodlusted in a sense. Didn't see that in the op.

I know its a rare occurrence of the Eye reacting lightspeed but if it happened more frequently it would label Steve a walking plot device and boring read. For forum purposes I'd label it admissible. Having said that, the Eye absorbs the blast then he puts up the Serphim shield. Not 3 shields but a counter & 1 shield. If he can tank PC then erect the Seraphim shield in DS#37 then he can do this in a forum fight. Assuming Surfer manages to connect with the first attack like you presume. Docs durability is still high unshielded so he can sustain at least 1 PC blast.

You keep saying Surfer was pissed second time around. Newsflash......he was pissed the first time too. Doc still treated him like a stepchild. Even put him in a bubble and left him helpless momentarily. He could've done it again but that's wasn't the intended ending (to have Doc pwn him twice) to be portrayed. Having the woman who nursed Frankensurfer getting killed was conducive to the plot. You can deny it all you want but I'm not screaming PIS just for the hell of it.

Surfer.

Originally posted by Sundipped
So now you have Surfer zipping all over the place firing from multiple locations, bloodlusted in a sense. Didn't see that in the op.

I know its a rare occurrence of the Eye reacting lightspeed but if it happened more frequently it would label Steve a walking plot device and boring read. For forum purposes I'd label it admissible. Having said that, the Eye absorbs the blast then he puts up the Serphim shield. Not 3 shields but a counter & 1 shield. If he can tank PC then erect the Seraphim shield in DS#37 then he can do this in a forum fight. Assuming Surfer manages to connect with the first attack like you presume. Docs durability is still high unshielded so he can sustain at least 1 PC blast.

You keep saying Surfer was pissed second time around. Newsflash......he was pissed the first time too. Doc still treated him like a stepchild. Even put him in a bubble and left him helpless momentarily. He could've done it again but that's wasn't the intended ending (to have Doc pwn him twice) to be portrayed. Having the woman who nursed Frankensurfer getting killed was conducive to the plot. You can deny it all you want but I'm not screaming PIS just for the hell of it. It's CISless. Keep clinging to your double standard though where Strange is CISless, and Surfer is questioned at everything he does.
I have Surfer blasting him twice and moving around. Which he's done in comics. You have Strange activating an auto shield, activating his Eye to defend attacks, and then strengthening his auto shield (since the auto shield used against Surfer was just a weaker hastily errected Seraphimic Shield). I didn't see that in the OP.

It's a one time occurence.

No he can't. Strange unshielded would be crushed by Surfer. Strange shielded got one shotted by a pissed off weaker Surfer.

He had no emotion at all the first fight. When he put him in a bubble that was a page before he got knocked out...
And I'm not sure what putting him in a bubble that cancels out magic would do to the real Surfer...

You are screaming PIS just for the hell of it. Hell, you're not even sure the order of things when you thought the bubble was from the first fight.
Hell, Strange didn't even need to get hit by the blast going by plot, since only the mama getting hit was needed.

Strange blocked an attack and puts the Rings on Surfer in the first fight.
Strange deflected Surfer's attack, put him in a magic canceling bubble, and got KO'ed when his "auto shield" got hit in the second fight.

And you know what the funniest thing is? The "auto shield" Strange threw up was to a Surfer just going the speed of sound... JUST IN TIME. I'd like to a think a CISless real Surfer isn't going to go just over the speed of sound...

Now I just made myself curious if Strange actually has an auto shield that acts of its own accord... besides the one time Eye defending feat.
Oh well. Strange loses.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
It's CISless. Keep clinging to your double standard though where Strange is CISless, and Surfer is questioned at everything he does.
I have Surfer blasting him twice and moving around. Which he's done in comics. You have Strange activating an auto shield, activating his Eye to defend attacks, and then strengthening his auto shield (since the auto shield used against Surfer was just a weaker hastily errected Seraphimic Shield). I didn't see that in the OP.

It's a one time occurence.

No he can't. Strange unshielded would be crushed by Surfer. Strange shielded got one shotted by a pissed off weaker Surfer.

He had no emotion at all the first fight. When he put him in a bubble that was a page before he got knocked out...
And I'm not sure what putting him in a bubble that cancels out magic would do to the real Surfer...

You are screaming PIS just for the hell of it. Hell, you're not even sure the order of things when you thought the bubble was from the first fight.
Hell, Strange didn't even need to get hit by the blast going by plot, since only the mama getting hit was needed.

Strange blocked an attack and puts the Rings on Surfer in the first fight.
Strange deflected Surfer's attack, put him in a magic canceling bubble, and got KO'ed when his "auto shield" got hit in the second fight.

And you know what the funniest thing is? The "auto shield" Strange threw up was to a Surfer just going the speed of sound... JUST IN TIME. I'd like to a think a CISless real Surfer isn't going to go just over the speed of sound...

Now I just made myself curious if Strange actually has an auto shield that acts of its own accord... besides the one time Eye defending feat.
Oh well. Strange loses.

You're still using 3 forms of defense. All I said was needed was the counter from the Eye then the shield of Seraphim. No auto shield involved. Remember I said forget about the auto shield? The Eye will auto react with a beam of its own. While beams are being cancelled allowing Steve the precious time needed, Doc erects the shield so it doesn't matter about the speed of sound from weak Surfer. I see real Surfer only getting off 1 blast in this scenario.

Durability will hold up. It did vs. Juggs with a amp so why not?

The bubble reference was just to show a time buying aspect for Doc to do whatever he wants. Quite a bit of dialogue was spoken before he broke out. Enough for a potent spell to be cast.

We'll never see eye to eye on the PIS issue especially but its all good. Doc was down and out and the lady tried to help him. Just understand that from my viewpoint, all events (including Doc failing) leading up to the dramatic ending , were in favor of ending the Frankensurfer threat the way it did.

To sum this up you pick Surfer I choose Doc. While both are capable of beating each other I side with Doc for the majority. We have different views but what would a forum be with all the same views? That is all.

Originally posted by Sundipped
You're still using 3 forms of defense. All I said was needed was the counter from the Eye then the shield of Seraphim. No auto shield involved. Remember I said forget about the auto shield? The Eye will auto react with a beam of its own. While beams are being cancelled allowing Steve the precious time needed, Doc erects the shield so it doesn't matter about the speed of sound from weak Surfer. I see real Surfer only getting off 1 blast in this scenario.

Durability will hold up. It did vs. Juggs with a amp so why not?

Stopped reading

Strange's barely reacting to the speed of sound reflexes affords him the ability to tell his Eye to react to anything (which you said he would, because he knows Surfer), and put up a shield before Surfer can attack twice.
Plus, he can take Surfer's blast unshielded...


Well... no point continuing this. Agree to disagree I guess.

Surfer shuts down Strange's brain before Strange can even generate an electrical impulse in it.

Or Surfer removes the language and movement centres of Strange's brain, so that he cannot do any incantations and sits back on the Surfboard laughing as Strange is imprisoned behind his own autoshields.

Originally posted by janus77
Surfer shuts down Strange's brain before Strange can even generate an electrical impulse in it.

Or Surfer removes the language and movement centres of Strange's brain, so that he cannot do any incantations and sits back on the Surfboard laughing as Strange is imprisoned behind his own autoshields.

I've never agreed with any of your posts, but I'll be damned, I can actually see that happening. He'd do what you said, then Norrin would be laughing like...

http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc513/dmills31/Nova%20CQB%20protocols/TGSKI.gif

Originally posted by dmills
I've never agreed with any of your posts, but I'll be damned, I can actually see that happening. He'd do what you said, then Norrin would be laughing like...

http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc513/dmills31/Nova%20CQB%20protocols/TGSKI.gif
one day I'll even get the Temple of the Screaming Thanosi to agree with me .

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Stopped reading

Strange's barely reacting to the speed of sound reflexes affords him the ability to tell his Eye to react to anything (which you said he would, because he knows Surfer), and put up a shield before Surfer can attack twice.
Plus, he can take Surfer's blast unshielded...


Well... no point continuing this. Agree to disagree I guess.

This makes no sense.

Doc indicated that he was travelling faster than the speed of sound which could mean a considerable amount:
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m610/sonnendawg/DrStrangeSorcerersupre37-03.jpg

Anyway Doc doesn't have to tell the Eye anything. It reacts on it's own like this:

http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/4854/absorbsamez0.th.jpg

But like you said, agree to disagree.

Originally posted by janus77
Surfer shuts down Strange's brain before Strange can even generate an electrical impulse in it.

What evidence is it of Surfer shutting off a high level mystic telepath at like Strange at super speed if anyone?

Originally posted by janus77
Or Surfer removes the language and movement centres of Strange's brain, so that he cannot do any incantations and sits back on the Surfboard laughing as Strange is imprisoned behind his own autoshields.

Strange doesn't need to speak in order to cast spells:

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/1275/sheroes5drstrange04.th.jpg

Originally posted by Sundipped
What evidence is it of Surfer shutting off a high level mystic telepath at like Strange at super speed if anyone?
What evidence have you that biologically, Strange is anything other than a regular human? Surfer's instantly given every human on the planet an orgasm, he's evolved a planet billions of years and he's removed organs from aliens whom he's never met before without any problem.

Surfer would definitely be able to shut down Strange's brain for the instant win.

Originally posted by Sundipped
Strange doesn't need to speak in order to cast spells:

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/1275/sheroes5drstrange04.th.jpg
Doesn't matter if he can cast spells with his mind, if Surfer can shut it down. But as far as I'm aware Strange's powerful spells require incantations and hand gestures, which is why Banner smashed Strange's hands.

Originally posted by Sundipped
This makes no sense. I know it makes no sense. Thank you for the backup.

Originally posted by Sundipped
Doc indicated that he was travelling faster than the speed of sound which could mean a considerable amount:
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m610/sonnendawg/DrStrangeSorcerersupre37-03.jpg Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
I'd like to a think a CISless real Surfer isn't going to go just over the speed of sound...

Originally posted by Sundipped
Anyway Doc doesn't have to tell the Eye anything. It reacts on it's own like this:

http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/4854/absorbsamez0.th.jpg

But like you said, agree to disagree.
Originally posted by Sundipped
Why wouldn''t Doc have the Eye ready to react vs. a opponent of Surfers caliber CISless?
Originally posted by Sundipped
Reason I give Doc the Eye counter defence is because he knows very well how fast Surfer is. I can't see a being of his intelligence not utilizing his best option in a case like this. It's really tailor made for this situation. If he had no knowledge whatsoever of Surfer then I would agree with you.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
I know it makes no sense. Thank you for the backup.

Nice attempt to nitpick statements. It's clearly shown on panel that the Eye reacts on its own. Even though he's not technically controlling it, its on his person, and is a part of his powerset. Didn't think I'd have to dumb it down this much 4 ya.

Originally posted by janus77
What evidence have you that biologically, Strange is anything other than a regular human? Surfer's instantly given every human on the planet an orgasm, he's evolved a planet billions of years and he's removed organs from aliens whom he's never met before without any problem.

Surfer would definitely be able to shut down Strange's brain for the instant win.


Doesn't matter if he can cast spells with his mind, if Surfer can shut it down. But as far as I'm aware Strange's powerful spells require incantations and hand gestures, which is why Banner smashed Strange's hands.

How are you going to answer a question with a question? True he is human, but mystically enhanced which puts him in a different category. Just like it makes his durability far beyond peak human.

A Zom influenced Strange trying to reason with Hulk (who had a ulterior motive) was the reason Doc got his hands crushed. If he really wanted to end Banner he could've stayed in astral form and completely shitted all over him.

Originally posted by Sundipped
Nice attempt to nitpick statements. It's clearly shown on panel that the Eye reacts on its own. Even though he's not technically controlling it, its on his person, and is a part of his powerset. Didn't think I'd have to dumb it down this much 4 ya. You gave Strange the ability because he knows Surfer...

Doesn't get much simpler than that.

And if Strange isn't controlling it, or telling it what to do, it doesn't fall under character induced stupidity, and therefore, you'd be relying on something acting on its own that's only worked once to well... work. I hope you can see the problem here.

OOriginally posted by Sr J-Bieb
You gave Strange the ability because he knows Surfer...

Doesn't get much simpler than that.

And if Strange isn't controlling it, or telling it what to do, it doesn't fall under character induced stupidity, and therefore, you'd be relying on something acting on its own that's only worked once to well... work. I hope you can see the problem here.

I gave him the ability because it reacts at lightspeed which would come in handy vs. Surfer. There is no character stupidity involved at all on Docs part.