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Colossus-Big C
1.lets say..the world trade disaster was a strategy by government to have citizens support war effort .the same tatic which hitler succesfully used to have his people support war (this part is true)

what is you reaction?

Omega Vision
Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
1.lets say..the world trade disaster was a strategy by government to have citizens support war effort .the same tatic which hitler succesfully used to have his people support war (this part is true)

what is you reaction?
I can't recall any false flags on Hitler's part that were anywhere near as intricate or grandiose as the Truthers allege 9/11 was.

He dressed up a few German soldiers in Polish uniforms and made them attack a border post of no particular value, didn't really fool anyone.

As for the question, I think I would be shocked not that the government would do it but shocked that they were that competent. I'd wonder why their Machiavellian brilliance fizzled out when it came to planning the actual invasions and the public relations surrounding the occupation.

Patient_Leech
Originally posted by Omega Vision
As for the question, I think I would be shocked not that the government would do it but shocked that they were that competent. I'd wonder why their Machiavellian brilliance fizzled out when it came to planning the actual invasions and the public relations surrounding the occupation.

When power and monetary profits are at stake, governments can be very competent. This is not a war on terrorism. The Patriot Act did not target terrorists. This is a war on the American people. And they had trouble hiding the fact that they lied about the WMDs. That's how the public relations died out.

Colossus-Big C
iirc he bombed a captial building(or some important building) and in his speach he blamed it on terrerost

Omega Vision
Originally posted by Patient_Leech
When power and monetary profits are at stake, governments can be very competent. This is not a war on terrorism. The Patriot Act did not target terrorists. This is a war on the American people. And they had trouble hiding the fact that they lied about the WMDs. That's how the public relations died out.
Wait...you think that they could pull off a 9/11 conspiracy as suggested by the Truthers yet couldn't fabricate WMDs in Iraq? Couldn't have taken a few of their nukes from the stockpile and buried them in the Iraqi Desert?

Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding your position.

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
iirc he bombed a captial building(or some important building) and in his speach he blamed it on terrerost
Nope.

Colossus-Big C
yes im sure of it. can someone confirm this?

Colossus-Big C
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Wait...you think that they could pull off a 9/11 conspiracy as suggested by the Truthers yet couldn't fabricate WMDs in Iraq? Couldn't have taken a few of their nukes from the stockpile and buried them in the Iraqi Desert?

Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding your position.


Nope. i think if it is as easy as you make it seem it would of happend already...

Omega Vision
Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
yes im sure of it. can someone confirm this?
If you're sure of it why can't you confirm it?

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
i think if it is as easy as you make it seem it would of happend already...
What do you think I think is easy? I'm saying if the government was such a consummate schemer to pull off the alleged 9/11 conspiracy then planting WMDs would be child's play by comparison.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
iirc he bombed a captial building(or some important building) and in his speach he blamed it on terrerost

The Reichstag, their Congress, was burned to the ground. A man named van der Lubbe, a passionate communist with a history of setting things on fire and hating the fascist government, was in the city at the time. The Berlin police arrested him, tortured him until he confessed, gave him a trial, then executed him.

Due to the blur of history there's no way to know who set the fire. Van der Lubbe being set up and van der Lubbe doing it himself are both equally reasonable conclusions to draw. Hitler, naturally, chose the version that served his own ends. How about you?

Colossus-Big C
yes thats it ^

Colossus-Big C
Originally posted by Omega Vision
If you're sure of it why can't you confirm it?


What do you think I think is easy? I'm saying if the government was such a consummate schemer to pull off the alleged 9/11 conspiracy then planting WMDs would be child's play by comparison. sneaking a NUKE into a country and risking being caught/causing war/the nuke falling into wrong hands would be child play in comparison? confused

dadudemon
About he burying the nukes thing...


I don't think it was an inside job. Why wouldn't they just bury nerve gas bombs (also WMDs which Sadam used and we had intimate knowledge of the working details of his (Saddam's) nerve gas weapons that he actually used) in a likely facility in Iraq? That would have been relatively easy to pull off.

It would seem much more obvious that the US Government would be more worried about being seen as incompetent than perpetuating a massively complex inside job and then botching a little WMD scenario. More likely, they didn't want to look incompetent in from the American people so they kept some things secret about the 9/11 attacks like...the attackers setup nanothermite packs on the support structures of the buildings so that a fire would cause them the burn out collapsing the buildings? Makes more sense that the government would cover that up because it would "scare" the America people on how very easy it is to execute terror plots. That's just my unfounded theory on the whole thing.


Oh...and the pentagon attack was most likely a missile. no expression


No inside jobs. Just a well planned out terror attack that the administration of the last decade did not want to own up to (the extent of how easy and nasty the plan was...not that it was complicated).

Colossus-Big C
youll be suprised to how many dumb things the government did

Colossus-Big C
president bush grandfather worked for nazis(Fact)

Lord Lucien
And JFK Sr. opted to support the Germans against the Soviets, should the Soviets become too powerful. Big deal.



If 9/11 was an inside job by the American government, the execution of which was designed to push America in to invading the Middle East for money, then I would say they deserved every dollar they made. The planting of bombs, acquiring the planes, alerting all the important people, falsifying everything, kidnapping, coercing, eliminating, and disposing of several hundred airline passengers, the sheer amount of planning, practice, and training... would take thousands of people. People that needed to be recruited and trained (by yet more people), and have managed to conceal their secrecy and espionage from everybody else, to this very day...


The logistics of such an operation would be mind-boggling, even without factoring in human error. The fact that not a single operative f*cked up in any way, and the whole plan went off perfectly... I can honestly say such an endeavor would be nothing short of the greatest artistic masterpiece in human history. The artists themselves would deserve every reward they could possible reap.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
president bush grandfather worked for nazis(Fact)

Writing (Fact) in place of a period is not a persuasive argument(Fact)

Digi
lol at this thread. Don't we still have a conspiracy forum?

To answer the OP, it's impossible for us to put ourselves in that position with any degree of accuracy. How we think we would act, how we perceive those actions internally, and how we would actually respond are all very different things. Any attempt at an answer would be baseless speculation.

ADarksideJedi
Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
1.lets say..the world trade disaster was a strategy by government to have citizens support war effort .the same tatic which hitler succesfully used to have his people support war (this part is true)

what is you reaction?

I would not be surprise about the World trade disaster being a set up but as for the Hitler thing I would be surprise.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
1.lets say..the world trade disaster was a strategy by government to have citizens support war effort .the same tatic which hitler succesfully used to have his people support war (this part is true)

what is you reaction?

How stupid!

That is the main reason I don't believe such things. If they wanted that, there are far easier ways to do that.

ADarksideJedi
If they did it easier then people might notice if they did it this way then people wont. I just want to say that I doubt it if it was was but no knows.

Bardock42
Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
1.lets say..the world trade disaster was a strategy by government to have citizens support war effort .the same tatic which hitler succesfully used to have his people support war (this part is true)

what is you reaction?

What exactly are you referring to when you talk about Hitler? The Reichstags fire, or the Glaiwitz incident, or something else?

rudester
It was for the oil duh...but everyone knows that already.

Lord Shadow Z
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
And JFK Sr. opted to support the Germans against the Soviets, should the Soviets become too powerful. Big deal.



If 9/11 was an inside job by the American government, the execution of which was designed to push America in to invading the Middle East for money, then I would say they deserved every dollar they made. The planting of bombs, acquiring the planes, alerting all the important people, falsifying everything, kidnapping, coercing, eliminating, and disposing of several hundred airline passengers, the sheer amount of planning, practice, and training... would take thousands of people. People that needed to be recruited and trained (by yet more people), and have managed to conceal their secrecy and espionage from everybody else, to this very day...


The logistics of such an operation would be mind-boggling, even without factoring in human error. The fact that not a single operative f*cked up in any way, and the whole plan went off perfectly... I can honestly say such an endeavor would be nothing short of the greatest artistic masterpiece in human history. The artists themselves would deserve every reward they could possible reap.

But that's the basis of what the 9/11 theorists are disputing and they actually do present their own evidence as to what they believe. It may not be ever 'proved' but to say that they haven't hit the nail on the head in any of the issues arising from that incident is naive. It was a public event, on film so they can pick at it and call in their own experts/witnesses, whatever and they do and some of what they say is compelling.

Some of the people that have spoken out may have been silenced/discredited, others may not have known what the 'operation' was all about. Or some may have been cold-hearted enough to to whatever their masters told them, because if you can't believe in the depths of human cruelty then that's unbelievable because history is full of them. Some are living now also.

The problem now is there are almost too many theories about what happened; plane/drone /no plane/missile, concentrated energy device, thermite and it goes on. But because they can't present or challenge their evidence it just gets ignored and that makes it worse in the long run - adds more suspicion. If the government had nothing to hide, why not confront the accusers and break down their arguments?

inimalist
Originally posted by Lord Shadow Z
But because they can't present... their evidence

I'm sorry, do you know how large the market is for conspiracy books?

Digi
Originally posted by ADarksideJedi
I would not be surprise about the World trade disaster being a set up but as for the Hitler thing I would be surprise.

So a governmental conspiracy that has yet to garner any credible evidence, or be leaked through one of the thousands of media outlets we have in today's media-obsessed world by any single member of the conspiracy, is MORE likely than the face of evil in the 20th century doing something similar in an era where it would've been much easier to pull off?

Large conspiracies almost always fall apart in the theory room because it's impossible to keep something so large a secret for any meaningful length of time.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
If 9/11 was an inside job by the American government, the execution of which was designed to push America in to invading the Middle East for money, then I would say they deserved every dollar they made. The planting of bombs, acquiring the planes, alerting all the important people, falsifying everything, kidnapping, coercing, eliminating, and disposing of several hundred airline passengers, the sheer amount of planning, practice, and training... would take thousands of people. People that needed to be recruited and trained (by yet more people), and have managed to conceal their secrecy and espionage from everybody else, to this very day...


The logistics of such an operation would be mind-boggling, even without factoring in human error. The fact that not a single operative f*cked up in any way, and the whole plan went off perfectly... I can honestly say such an endeavor would be nothing short of the greatest artistic masterpiece in human history. The artists themselves would deserve every reward they could possible reap.

lol, this.

Originally posted by inimalist
I'm sorry, do you know how large the market is for conspiracy books?

Not to mention, who actually reads books anymore? If actual evidence can be found that isn't "fringe" people yelling without proper diligence, the media will eat it up. Hell, interview one guy involved in any way with 9/11 who says he was part of a plan, throw the video up on youtube, and you'll be viral before you have a chance to get out of your boxers and put a suit on for the cameras.

Also there's anti-conspiracy books that debunk conspiracies. So the issue IS being confronted and debunked when applicable. Lord Z, if you're claiming the debate is being put under wraps, you're not doing a good job of searching for it.

inimalist
Originally posted by Digi
Also there's anti-conspiracy books that debunk conspiracies.

which have pitiful sales when compared to conspiracy books

JodiJeff
On 9/10, Rumsfeld announces there is fraud in the hundreds of billions in the Pentagon. Next day a plane hits the Pentagon not far away from where he was in that building.

The real question is does the Pentagon play covert war games in our own country, and when things get to the point where their interests are affected, pull the trigger to deflect attention or direct an action after such subsequenct actions.

Say maybe the Kennedys wanted to pull out of Vietman, but military says no.

Perhaps, backup records of the Pentagon transactions are in a New York World Trade Center building and the main records in the Pentagon.

Perhaps both buildings go down or have a plane crash just where those records happen to be, in a huge castrophe by recruits none other recruited by the Pentagon to do such actions to deflect their own fraud.

Ask yourself what happened in the last 10 years that the supply of opium from Afgahnistain went from 10% to 90%, were there new trade routes discovered? Better marketing of their product?

And if we over there, how do shipments go up 9 fold without anyone noticing, and how is it getting over here, the same usual way?

Or would it be wasteful to not load military planes up on the way back for a fee, a nod and a wink?

inimalist
Originally posted by JodiJeff
Say maybe the Kennedys wanted to pull out of Vietman, but military says no.

Kennedy escalated the Vietnam war and started the hamlet resettlement project... There is also the bay of pigs...

WangWins
Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
1.lets say..the world trade disaster was a strategy by government to have citizens support war effort .the same tatic which hitler succesfully used to have his people support war (this part is true)

what is you reaction?

Very perceptive... The war on terror is an excuse to control!

-Wang is love

inimalist
to answer the OP: If I found out that my government was literally designing huge plots to kill its own citizens in spectacular ways, for whatever reason, the only rational answer is violent revolution.

I'd actually challenge any Truther on this point as well. If you truly believe that this is the monster you are fighting against, WTF? If you really, REALLY, believe the US government is needlessly killing its own citizens on mass like this, making stupid YouTube videos and arguing on message boards is retarded (also dangerous). Why aren't you fighting? Cowardice? Ineptitude? Sloth?

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by inimalist
to answer the OP: If I found out that my government was literally designing huge plots to kill its own citizens in spectacular ways, for whatever reason, the only rational answer is violent revolution.

I'd actually challenge any Truther on this point as well. If you truly believe that this is the monster you are fighting against, WTF? If you really, REALLY, believe the US government is needlessly killing its own citizens on mass like this, making stupid YouTube videos and arguing on message boards is retarded (also dangerous). Why aren't you fighting? Cowardice? Ineptitude? Sloth?

Well put!

dadudemon
Originally posted by inimalist
I'm sorry, do you know how large the market is for conspiracy books?

Do you?

I was under the impression that it was waning due to "free" stuff.

Originally posted by Digi
So a governmental conspiracy that has yet to garner any credible evidence,

The evidence gathered is very credible. I believe the conclusions are the problem.

WangWins
First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn't speak out because I was Protestant.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.

dadudemon
Originally posted by WangWins
First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn't speak out because I was Protestant.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.

Wrong. You still have the atheistic/agnostic anarchists. That's about 50% of young adults. laughing

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by WangWins
First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn't speak out because I was Protestant.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.

I feel so lonely. sad

Omega Vision
Originally posted by inimalist
to answer the OP: If I found out that my government was literally designing huge plots to kill its own citizens in spectacular ways, for whatever reason, the only rational answer is violent revolution.

I'd actually challenge any Truther on this point as well. If you truly believe that this is the monster you are fighting against, WTF? If you really, REALLY, believe the US government is needlessly killing its own citizens on mass like this, making stupid YouTube videos and arguing on message boards is retarded (also dangerous). Why aren't you fighting? Cowardice? Ineptitude? Sloth?
I feel like posting this on every Truther Message Board.

I heart you, ini.

I take it though you think the protestors in Syria should all be taking up arms now instead of trying to carry out peaceful protests (not counting the FSA), don't you?

Lord Lucien
Originally posted by Lord Shadow Z
Some of the people that have spoken out may have been silenced/discredited, others may not have known what the 'operation' was all about. Or some may have been cold-hearted enough to to whatever their masters told them, because if you can't believe in the depths of human cruelty then that's unbelievable because history is full of them. Some are living now also. Thousands of them. All recruited, trained, kept in the dark, silenced, sent through their mission, and seen it come to full fruition.

All without a hitch.


Without a doubt, the Inside Job of September 11th was/is the single greatest heist/work of living art to ever exist. Bar none.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by JodiJeff
On 9/10, Rumsfeld announces there is fraud in the hundreds of billions in the Pentagon. Next day a plane hits the Pentagon not far away from where he was in that building.

So... worst assassination attempt ever?

NemeBro
Did that guy just imply that the 9/11 conspiracy was planned and carried out in a day, or is that just me? no expression

dadudemon
Originally posted by NemeBro
Did that guy just imply that the 9/11 conspiracy was planned and carried out in a day, or is that just me? no expression

The 9/11 attack is much simpler than people make it out to be....if you assume they didn't rig the support beams with nanothermite.

But, yes, the attack could have been planned out in far less than a day.

It still took months to carry out because they had to go to flight school.

His implications were that there was a bigger conspiracy going on. Just because Rummy announced it the day before, does not mean that we were trying to kill him in just a day. That could have been one of two things:

Rum was breaking a promise about not revealing that info but he did anyway. A "kill" plan was designed months in advance just in case. (very silly)

It was a plan to distract from the announcement (worked splendidly).

The latter is more plausible. If there was going to be a mass government conspiracy, the plan would be executed in a way that it was be too silly to look like the government did it. Basically, there would be no room to think it was the government with a sane mind. For me, that's the biggest problem with the truthers.

inimalist
they might as well just say time travelling wizard

Lord Lucien
Alien time travelling wizard.

alltoomany
maybe some people that worked for the government were in on it... but who knows...

Shakyamunison
I think it was god that did it. stick out tongue

rudester
I think it was the government and the superpowers that be to control the oil of the world, 9/11 was just a distraction to the bigger picture. But it doesnt matter now cuz its all over.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by rudester
I think it was the government and the superpowers that be to control the oil of the world, 9/11 was just a distraction to the bigger picture. But it doesnt matter now cuz its all over.

Ya, and we are enjoying the low price of oil. .33 cents a gallon gas is great. laughing out loud

Colossus-Big C
Originally posted by inimalist
to answer the OP: If I found out that my government was literally designing huge plots to kill its own citizens in spectacular ways, for whatever reason, the only rational answer is violent revolution.

I'd actually challenge any Truther on this point as well. If you truly believe that this is the monster you are fighting against, WTF? If you really, REALLY, believe the US government is needlessly killing its own citizens on mass like this, making stupid YouTube videos and arguing on message boards is retarded (also dangerous). Why aren't you fighting? Cowardice? Ineptitude? Sloth? Is this toward me? Im not a truther

2. Of course they would make videos to inform other people of there beliefes, why would they revolt fight on there own??

3. How do you know there not fighting???

And although i may not believe this comspiracy i do believe the government is a "monster" look at the Syphilis shit they did or the FBI first introducing cocain to the us.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
3. How do you know there not fighting???

Because we'd be hearing a lot more about homegrown terrorism if they were.

inimalist
Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
Is this toward me? Im not a truther

then there is no reason for you to feel defensive

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by inimalist
then there is no reason for you to feel defensive

It's like yelling "raciest are stupid" in a Texas Bar. laughing out loud

Colossus-Big C
Texas people are not racist?

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
Texas people are not racist?

But only racists would have getten upset. Just like only truthers should have gotten upset at inimalist's commit.

Also, I used to live in Texas. big grin

dadudemon
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I think it was god that did it. stick out tongue

laughing

Lord Shadow Z
Originally posted by Digi
Also there's anti-conspiracy books that debunk conspiracies. So the issue IS being confronted and debunked when applicable. Lord Z, if you're claiming the debate is being put under wraps, you're not doing a good job of searching for it.

The de-bunkers are confronting the issue that's true but what makes their experts any less credible than the ones who are claiming conspiracy?

I'll answer, because the government said it was terrorists we should believe them - George Bush said so too so that makes it doubly true and anyone who has a different opinion is not a patriot and...


You see my point. De-bunkers have the unique position of preaching to the very crowd that the 9/11 theorists claim have been brainwashed by the media. I'm not saying this is true but the claims of possible media manipulation is one of the arguments and there are examples of this which are curious to say the least. Conspiracies are compelling and they draw you in at times I agree but when I see some visual examples which make me think 'hmm... that doesn't look or feel right' I'm inclined to believe that. If the subject is too technical for me I take both arguments at face value only, no further.

inimalist
Originally posted by Lord Shadow Z
I'll answer, because the government said it was terrorists we should believe them

who, specifically, claims this?

Colossus-Big C
The president, bush

Lord Shadow Z
Originally posted by inimalist
who, specifically, claims this?

Claims what? The government said it was terrorists, that's what I meant.

inimalist
Originally posted by Lord Shadow Z
Claims what? The government said it was terrorists, that's what I meant.

yes, but your implication is that everyone who doesn't think 9-11 was an inside job is appealing to the government or calling you unpatriotic. I'm asking you, who is saying "The government said it was terrorists, so it is"?

Colossus-Big C
If the government never said it was terrorist how many people would of thought it was terrorist?

Lord Shadow Z
Originally posted by inimalist
yes, but your implication is that everyone who doesn't think 9-11 was an inside job is appealing to the government or calling you unpatriotic. I'm asking you, who is saying "The government said it was terrorists, so it is"?

I never said that to be a truth, I meant that it is a perception based on all the names and insults that the theorists have had to put up with for their beliefs. The tv shows and videos where important parts of their arguments are cut out or sneered at and never completely challenged.

You can tell the way I wrote that whole sentence that it is a perception and not an absolute otherwise I wouldn't have framed it that way.

Colossus-Big C
Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
If the government never said it was terrorist how many people would of thought it was terrorist? Besides, may people in countries outside of USA belive in thosee conspiracy to.

Lord Shadow Z
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Thousands of them. All recruited, trained, kept in the dark, silenced, sent through their mission, and seen it come to full fruition.

All without a hitch.


Without a doubt, the Inside Job of September 11th was/is the single greatest heist/work of living art to ever exist. Bar none.

But possible anomalies have never been answered/explained and they are there for all to see. If it was 'perfect' as you say it was then there would be no conspiracy theories about this at all, no expert opinions to the contrary or it would have died down by now, but it still rumbles on nevertheless.

Cyner
@Ini

If everyone who could claim that they knew the truth about 9/11 started a violent revolution, they would be destroyed without popular support. They would be branded as crazy terrorists whose ideas have zero credibility. It's pointless to do such a thing without mass popular support.



@everyone

Personally I've spent a lot of time studying this very subject and from my findings it seems that it wasn't merely an "inside job" but the CIA and Mossad had a large hand in the events. With the help of Dick Cheney and the happenstance of military training exercises to disrupt any possible response to the hijacked aircraft, the attacks took place without a problem.

I have a lot of information but I'd have to gather my resources. I'm gonna be lazy right now though and just post two videos that will give you a bit to think about and maybe you'll want to really research the subject on your own.

Qp6QszNTNaM



_DuSeuxjiJQ

Lord Shadow Z
Originally posted by inimalist
If you really, REALLY, believe the US government is needlessly killing its own citizens on mass like this, making stupid YouTube videos and arguing on message boards is retarded (also dangerous). Why aren't you fighting? Cowardice? Ineptitude? Sloth?

Oh, I didn't see this, sorry. The Nazis executed how many of their own people just for being Jews? What was the genocidal count of Stalin again for various 'dissidents' and imagined enemies? How many people have U.S. and British goverments killed overseas for little to no reason, or imaginary WMDs? Or just for settling old scores after they've let horrible dictators rule for years and did nothing?

People in power do these things, history is full of examples of atrocities against their own people but as we are wont to do we don't usually look at our own with the same scrutiny.

Shakyamunison
I'm sure, once you look into it enough, you will waist your life away.

Colossus-Big C
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I'm sure, once you look into it enough, you will waist your life away. ?

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
?

What did you not understand?

If you think that the government was behind 911, then there is absolutely nothing you can do about it, but if it was Al Qaeda that did it, then again, there is nothing you can do about it.

Colossus-Big C
You guys dont find it scary that the guy in the video cyner posted was shortley murdered?

I looked him up after i seen the video

Colossus-Big C
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
What did you not understand?

If you think that the government was behind 911, then there is absolutely nothing you can do about it, but if it was Al Qaeda that did it, then again, there is nothing you can do about it. Who cares if its nothing you can do about? Just because theres nothing you can do about doesnt mean you cant look into it....

inimalist
Originally posted by Cyner
@Ini

If everyone who could claim that they knew the truth about 9/11 started a violent revolution, they would be destroyed without popular support. They would be branded as crazy terrorists whose ideas have zero credibility. It's pointless to do such a thing without mass popular support.

exhibit A: Arab Spring

exhibit B: American Revolution

exhibit C: most violent revolutions have much less than 50% support from the masses

Originally posted by Lord Shadow Z
Oh, I didn't see this, sorry. The Nazis executed how many of their own people just for being Jews? What was the genocidal count of Stalin again for various 'dissidents' and imagined enemies? How many people have U.S. and British goverments killed overseas for little to no reason, or imaginary WMDs? Or just for settling old scores after they've let horrible dictators rule for years and did nothing?

People in power do these things, history is full of examples of atrocities against their own people but as we are wont to do we don't usually look at our own with the same scrutiny.

so you are saying you wouldn't have taken up arms against the Nazis?

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
You guys dont find it scary that the guy in the video cyner posted was shortley murdered?

I think it is scary that people waist their time with this. It's 2012. If the government wanted to kill you, it would be an accident.

Colossus-Big C
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I think it is scary that people waist their time with this. It's 2012. If the government wanted to kill you, it would be an accident. Are you the government? Why do people overate the government?
Theres many things the goverment has done that an 18 year old probably could have came up with a more intellegent way to do it.

Lord Shadow Z
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I'm sure, once you look into it enough, you will waist your life away.

I don't obssessively look into this at all however I see things that make me curious, and feel the need to talk about it, on forums - a bit like yourself. You also seem to have a higher post count than I, so what are you accomplishing? And are you wasting your time away looking into your beliefs and opinions?

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
Are you the government? Why do people overate the government?

I am the government. Happy Dance

You think I'm overrating the government? What do you mean by that.

If you really think that the government is as evil as you believe, then it is your duty to take up arms against it.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Lord Shadow Z
I don't obssessively look into this at all however I see things that make me curious, and feel the need to talk about it, on forums - a bit like yourself. You also seem to have a higher post count than I, so what are you accomplishing? And are you wasting your time away looking into your beliefs and opinions?

I'm saving souls. laughing

I'm not talking about your post count. laughing out loud I'm talking about the nutty things you are saying.

If you think you are just having fun, then let me remind you that people lost loved ones on 911. How do you think they feel when they read what you write?

Also, I am being general, please do not think I am picking on you.

Lord Shadow Z
Originally posted by inimalist
so you are saying you wouldn't have taken up arms against the Nazis?

I never lived in that country in that time period so I can't say, I would like to think so but we'll never know. But if I did, and I died then the regime would make me look like the enemy while they commit wholesale genocide themselves.

Colossus-Big C
Originally posted by Shakyamunison


If you really think that the government is as evil as you believe, then it is your duty to take up arms against it. the government is evil regardless this conpiracy being true or not, as i said earlier the tested syphilis on people without there consent.

You overate the government because you assume that if they wanted to kill someone it would be an accident or done in an intellegent way.

Lord Shadow Z
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I'm saving souls. laughing

I'm not talking about your post count. laughing out loud I'm talking about the nutty things you are saying.

If you think you are just having fun, then let me remind you that people lost loved ones on 911. How do you think they feel when they read what you write?

Also, I am being general, please do not think I am picking on you.

I'm not saying anything nutty,as you joined the discussion inimalist expressed disbelief that a government could kill their own citizens - I disagreed and posted examples where they have. I 've been calm and clear in this debate and have attacked/insulted no-one yet you are saying derisive and false things about my statements.

Having fun? Where did I say this? And where did I say it was a fact that it was an inside job? I only expressed the possibility because there are certain anomalies - things that don't add up.

I didn't say it was an absolute that it happened so I'm not insulting any victim of 9/11 and there have been victims of 9/11 who support the theories so what does that tell you?

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
the government is evil regardless this conpiracy being true or not, as i said earlier the tested syphilis on people without there consent.

You overate the government because you assume that if they wanted to kill someone it would be an accident or done in an intellegent way.

Wow! You believe a bunch of conspiracy shit.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Lord Shadow Z
I'm not saying anything nutty,as you joined the discussion inimalist expressed disbelief that a government could kill their own citizens - I disagreed and posted examples where they have. I 've been calm and clear in this debate and have attacked/insulted no-one yet you are saying derisive and false things about my statements.

Having fun? Where did I say this? And where did I say it was a fact that it was an inside job? I only expressed the possibility because there are certain anomalies - things that don't add up.

I didn't say it was an absolute that it happened so I'm not insulting any victim of 9/11 and there have been victims of 9/11 who support the theories so what does that tell you?

I think what you are saying is nutty. All of these conspiracy theories are not compelling, and to say they are, is nutty, IMO.

You know there is a conspiracy forum, and I will not bug you there. cool

inimalist
Originally posted by Lord Shadow Z
I don't obssessively look into this at all however I see things that make me curious, and feel the need to talk about it, on forums - a bit like yourself. You also seem to have a higher post count than I, so what are you accomplishing? And are you wasting your time away looking into your beliefs and opinions?

if you aren't a truther there is no reason to get defensive about what I've said /shrug

and yes, very much I am wasting time here. posting on message boards is the thing I do when I have a few minutes of down time I need to waste with something enjoyable... I'm not sure what that proves? Might you be taking yourself too seriously?

Originally posted by Lord Shadow Z
as you joined the discussion inimalist expressed disbelief that a government could kill their own citizens

no I certainly did not

if you read my point, you will see I said that when a government begins randomly killing its own citizens, especially in ways like 9-11 conspiracies assume they do, the only reasonable answer is violent revolution, not that governments don't kill their own citizens. My point has nothing to do with the veracity of the theories, in fact, I will refuse to debate any aspect of how true the conspiracy claims are, as I have wasted too much of my life doing that. I was, in fact, assuming they were true, and in that context, saying the only answer I would see is to take up arms against the state, as it is obviously tyrannically evil.

Your reply was to bring up other tyrannical states that I feel it would have been only reasonable to take up arms against also.

inimalist
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Wow! You believe a bunch of conspiracy shit.

Tuskegee is true though, unfortunately

however, I think we can distinguish easily between a medical experiment, done largely in secret, on a small number of people and a worldwide media event where thousands of people were killed in remarkably spectacular ways.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by inimalist
Tuskegee is true though, unfortunately

however, I think we can distinguish easily between a medical experiment, done largely in secret, on a small number of people and a worldwide media event where thousands of people were killed in remarkably spectacular ways.

Ok, but Tuskegee has been blown out of proportion. Just ask Colossus-Big C how many people?

Colossus-Big C
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Wow! You believe a bunch of conspiracy shit. What conspiracy bullshit? Did you even read my post? What the f**k?

Colossus-Big C
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Ok, but Tuskegee has been blown out of proportion. Just ask Colossus-Big C how many people? No one is blowing anything out of proportion stop assuming things. Never did i say it was as big as 911 all i said is that the government are indeed "monsters" via tuskegee
I dont think you even read my post

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
What conspiracy bullshit? Did you even read my post?

You are attempting to redirect, and it will not work.

Colossus-Big C
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You are attempting to redirect, and it will not work. All i want you to do is to conceede to the fact that the government are monsters.

Lord Lucien
Originally posted by Lord Shadow Z
But possible anomalies have never been answered/explained and they are there for all to see. If it was 'perfect' as you say it was then there would be no conspiracy theories about this at all, no expert opinions to the contrary or it would have died down by now, but it still rumbles on nevertheless. So... the anomalies are there for all to see, for people to do something about it, and... why haven't you all done something about it? Where is the rallying point? A government brazenly blowing up its own buildings and planes and kills thousands of people to perpetuate wars in the Middle-East for the purpose of profiting a small core of corporate-politicians, and....


Why has nothing been done to stop them in the last decade? Why haven't the millions of Truthers and Hollywood celebrities who believe them not risen up and taken arms against the government? The French and Polish went guerrilla in their own countries, why haven't Americans? Why aren't you doing anything about it?

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
No one is blowing anything out of proportion stop assuming things. Never did i say it was as big as 911 all i said is that the government are indeed "monsters" via tuskegee
I dont think you even read my post

OK, that is your opinion. My opinion is that the government is not a monster. The government is people who make mistakes. I will grand you that some people are monsters, but not the government in total.

Colossus-Big C
By the way are you asian?

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
By the way are you asian?

I'm Russian.

Lord Lucien
toMAYto--toMAHto.

Colossus-Big C
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I'm Russian. Lets meet somewhere.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
Lets meet somewhere.

I don't live in Russia. laughing out loud

Patient_Leech
6S0HznBnrCE

Colossus-Big C
I gues the question is not "do you believe that it actually happened " but "do you think the government is capable, would do something of that sort?"

And imo yes to the latter

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
I gues the question is not "do you believe that it actually happened " but "do you think the government is capable, would do something of that sort?"

And imo yes to the latter

Yes, humans are capable of great evil.

No, governments are not something independent of the humans within that government.

The people is Germany tried to used that excuse (we didn't know that the government was doing that) after WWII, but it did not fly.

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