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Who wins?

Team 1 stomps

t2

Aquaman is the weak link. As powerful as Maxima and MM are, it's 2 vs 3. Team Two wins.

sinister got a nice upgrade

and warren with the celestial death seed

too much for t1 to overcome

Team 1.

cool

how do they win

lol @ aquaman being a weak link when u have a uber jobber like apoc on the team...id pick authur over him any day


t1 for the maj

Team 1 in a stomp

they counter the celestial death seed how

Originally posted by guy222
sinister got a nice upgrade

and warren with the celestial death seed
Angel isn't in this fight...

i think guy is thinking about sinister merging with the dreamin celestial...he doesnt have that upgrade anymore

Originally posted by Sin I AM
lol @ aquaman being a weak link when u have a uber jobber like apoc on the team...id pick authur over him any day


t1 for the maj

That jobber has beaten teams of X-men while in a weakened state, restrained Savage Hulk with ease, beaten Prime Eternal Ikaris, owned Exodus (the same guy that went toe to toe with Sersi and had the upper hand till he was summoned away), and caused Loki to retreat from his base.

Aquaman IS the weakest link, by far. Team two steamrolls Team one.

Team 1. MM gets the team the majority.

max>j'onn>>>arthur in tp. max is a beast overall and MAY be tougher than j'onn. but am is the weak link, tp wise and physically (since they appear to be out of water.) i think marvel would take it eventually.

Originally posted by leonidas
max>j'onn>>>arthur in tp. max is a beast overall and MAY be tougher than j'onn. but am is the weak link, tp wise and physically (since they appear to be out of water.) i think marvel would take it eventually.

Both Maxima and MM can take out Apoc, or Sinister, or Stryfe. Aquaman might go down, but either of the 3 have to deal with 2 powerful top tiers.

Originally posted by zopzop
That jobber has beaten teams of X-men while in a weakened state, restrained Savage Hulk with ease, beaten Prime Eternal Ikaris, owned Exodus (the same guy that went toe to toe with Sersi and had the upper hand till he was summoned away), and caused Loki to retreat from his base.

Aquaman IS the weakest link, by far. Team two steamrolls Team one. And yet lacks an actual feat demonstrating telepathic strength. Apocalypse on average falls to either Maxima or J'onn, and Arthur is a bigger boon to his team than Sinister is to team Marvel.

DC takes this.

Originally posted by Existere
And yet lacks an actual feat demonstrating telepathic strength. Apocalypse on average falls to either Maxima or J'onn, and Arthur is a bigger boon to his team than Sinister is to team Marvel.

DC takes this.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=442042&pagenumber=1

He more than holds his own and crushes AM (the weakest link on T1). Sinister is no slouch in the TP department either and his durability is top notch.

Originally posted by zopzop
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=442042&pagenumber=1

He more than holds his own and crushes AM (the weakest link on T1). Sinister is no slouch in the TP department either and his durability is top notch. I'm glad that you think that the strongest member of team Marvel would crush the weakest member of DC, but you'd be hard pressed to argue that fact given that Apocalypse doesn't have any feats demonstrating straight up telepathy. Up against a team of J'onn, Max and Arthur, that's a rough go.

J'onn and Maxima could probably take this on their own. Sinister is relatively inconsequential, and I'd certainly give them odds over Apocalypse and Stryfe.

Originally posted by Existere
I'm glad that you think that the strongest member of team Marvel would crush the weakest member of DC, but you'd be hard pressed to argue that fact given that Apocalypse doesn't have any feats demonstrating straight up telepathy. Up against a team of J'onn, Max and Arthur, that's a rough go.

J'onn and Maxima could probably take this on their own. Sinister is relatively inconsequential, and I'd certainly give them odds over Apocalypse and Stryfe.

The point was, the guy that's held his own and beaten guys like Prime Eternal Ikaris, High Evolutionary, Exodus, Prof X. and Jean Grey, would CRUSH AM. And it would be 2 on 3. Team 2 wins.

And seeing how Team One has a member with a fire weakness, sh|t would just start going down hill fast from there. None of Team 2 has weaknesses that Team One can exploit.

Originally posted by zopzop
The point was, the guy that's held his own and beaten guys like Prime Eternal Ikaris, High Evolutionary, Exodus, Prof X. and Jean Grey, would CRUSH AM. And it would be 2 on 3. Team 2 wins.

And seeing how Team One has a member with a fire weakness, sh|t would just start going down hill fast from there. None of Team 2 has weaknesses that Team One can exploit. 2 on 3, I'd still take DC, which I already said. Sinister offers literally nothing, and spouting off Apocalypse's high end feats to prove that he could take Aquaman once again offers no reason to back up Marvel winning this match.

Aquaman is the weakest member on Team 1. Posting over and over again that Apocalypse would beat him (based on nothing more than ABC logic) is pretty irrelevant when Aquaman has Maxima and Martian Manhunter at his back.

Not only is Team DC packing a lot more telepathic might, as well as collective physical strength, they're also each a hell of a lot faster than Marvel, and they each individually fight with a greater level of prowess than the X-villains.

Apocalypse wouldn't be able to touch J'onn, much less light him on fire. Marvel is solidly outclassed in this match.

Originally posted by Existere
2 on 3, I'd still take DC, which I already said. Sinister offers literally nothing, and spouting off Apocalypse's high end feats to prove that he could take Aquaman once again offers no reason to back up Marvel winning this match.

Aquaman is the weakest member on Team 1. Posting over and over again that Apocalypse would beat him (based on nothing more than ABC logic) is pretty irrelevant when Aquaman has Maxima and Martian Manhunter at his back.

Not only is Team DC packing a lot more telepathic might, as well as collective physical strength, they're also each a hell of a lot faster than Marvel, and they each individually fight with a greater level of prowess than the X-villains.

Apocalypse wouldn't be able to touch J'onn, much less light him on fire. Marvel is solidly outclassed in this match.

Strye and Sinister would more than hold their own vs MM and Maxima while AM went down hard and fast like the piece of garbage that he is. Then it'd be 3 powerful telepaths with excellent durability vs 2 powerful telepaths with excellent durability. Except NO ONE on Team 2 has any exploitable weakness while someone on Team 1 does.

You just don't like Aquaman, I think.

And Arthur's durability is more than enough to keep him in the fight, as is his telepathy.

DC wins. Handily.

Originally posted by -Pr-
You just don't like Aquaman, I think.

And Arthur's durability is more than enough to keep him in the fight, as is his telepathy.

I don't like him because he's overrated. He wouldn't last more than a panel against Apocalypse and he wouldn't make it passed a few panels vs Sinister or Stryfe.

I already linked to the Apoc Respect Thread showing his strength/energy/body manip/tp feats.

Here's Sinister's :
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=438339&pagenumber=2

He'd own AM too. It's going to come down to 2 TPs vs 3 TPs and no one on Team 2 has a weakness.

2nd team is highly underestimated

Originally posted by zopzop
I don't like him because he's overrated. He wouldn't last more than a panel against Apocalypse and he wouldn't make it passed a few panels vs Sinister or Stryfe.

I already linked to the Apoc Respect Thread showing his strength/energy/body manip/tp feats.

Here's Sinister's :
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=438339&pagenumber=2

He'd own AM too. It's going to come down to 2 TPs vs 3 TPs and no one on Team 2 has a weakness.

If anything Aquaman is underrated on this board. He'd give Sinister a hell of a time and possibly beat him.

He's lasted more than a panel against bigger guys than Apocalypse, so I don't get where this "weak link" thing is coming from.

Originally posted by -Pr-
If anything Aquaman is underrated on this board. He'd give Sinister a hell of a time and possibly beat him.

He's lasted more than a panel against bigger guys than Apocalypse, so I don't get where this "weak link" thing is coming from.

He absolutely would not beat Sinister. Sorry. Not physically or in a psi war.

This is just one of the ways Apocalypse would end AM, if he was serious about doing so :
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/apocmorph4.png
That's Prime Eternal Ikaris he's destroying. Eternals have total control over their molecular structure and that's why Ikaris didn't outright die. AM wouldn't be so fortunate.

Sorry, but Stryfe or Apoc stand no chance against the MM or Maxima. Team 1.

Originally posted by zopzop
Strye and Sinister would more than hold their own vs MM and Maxima while AM went down hard and fast like the piece of garbage that he is. Then it'd be 3 powerful telepaths with excellent durability vs 2 powerful telepaths with excellent durability. Except NO ONE on Team 2 has any exploitable weakness while someone on Team 1 does. lolwut?

Marvel's team doesn't have '3 powerful telepaths'. They have Apocalypse, who doesn't have a single real telepathic feat, and they have Sinister - the last impressive thing he did telepathically was what? Fight Psylocke (pre-asian) on the astral plane? Meh, not really in J'onn or Maxima (or Arthur's) caliber.

Further, J'onn and Maxima are miles more powerful telepathically than Stryfe.

Also, I'd take Aquaman in a fight vs. Sinister. For what it's worth.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Sorry, but Stryfe or Apoc stand no chance against the MM or Maxima. Team 1.

Apocalypse would absolutely crush either of them. The way he handled Exodus (the same Exodus that went toe to toe vs Sersi and had the upper hand till he was called away) is all one needs to know.

Originally posted by Existere
lolwut?

Marvel's team doesn't have '3 powerful telepaths'. They have Apocalypse, who doesn't have a single real telepathic feat, and they have Sinister - the last impressive thing he did telepathically was what? Fight Psylocke (pre-asian) on the astral plane? Meh, not really in J'onn or Maxima (or Arthur's) caliber.

Further, J'onn and Maxima are miles more powerful telepathically than Stryfe.

Also, I'd take Aquaman in a fight vs. Sinister. For what it's worth.

Check the respect threads. Apoc owned Jean and Prof X. telepathically.

MM and Maxima are not miles more powerful telepathically than Stryfe. At all.

No, he wouldn't. He doesn't the feats to back it up.

Originally posted by zopzop
Apocalypse would absolutely crush either of them. The way he handled Exodus (the same Exodus that went toe to toe vs Sersi and had the upper hand till he was called away) is all one needs to know. J'onn or Maxima would both beat Exodus too. Sersi also solely fought Exodus telepathically, not using any of her many other powers, and Sersi would, in turn, destroy Apocalypse (much like J'onn or Maxima would... they all remain equally versatile and far more powerful than your average Apocalypse).

Originally posted by zopzop
Check the respect threads. Apoc owned Jean and Prof X. telepathically.

MM and Maxima are not miles more powerful telepathically than Stryfe. At all. I would ask you to post feats, but this has already been hashed out.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=474929&pagenumber=2#post10064189

Just catch yourself up to date.

yo smurph--you seem quick to toss away sinister in this match, who i've always thought was a pretty tough bastard (from a few of his showings). just wondering how come? not sure apoc could use tp, but i'm pretty sure they wouldn't take him out with it. he's pretty versatile and i think would be difficult to take out physically.

sorry pr, am has said a couple times that mm is quite a bit beyond him tp-wise. one time he even says j'onn is 10x the telepath he is. that is not true, but mm is quite a bit beyond him and on land, i don't see arthur being much of a factor here. stryfe has some pretty good feats as well. underestimating? maybe, but i'm just going by his most consistent showings i think.

seems perhaps the marvel side is being slightly underestimated. i at least think it would be a close fight.

Originally posted by leonidas
yo smurph--you seem quick to toss away sinister in this match, who i've always thought was a pretty tough bastard (from a few of his showings). just wondering how come? not sure apoc could use tp, but i'm pretty sure they wouldn't take him out with it. he's pretty versatile and i think would be difficult to take out physically.
It's mostly just because I don't feel like Sinister would play a heavy factor in the way this match goes.

I don't see Arthur's telepathy, though strong, as being much of a factor here, given that he's got J'onn and Max on his team. Aquaman's also really fast and strong, enough so to be a nuisance to Apocalypse and a real problem for Stryfe.

On the flip side, I think telepathy might be all that Sinister offers offensively, and I see him as being sincerely outclassed by his opponents. Other than that, Sinister has an annoying physiology and energy blasts sometimes...

Basically, if he goes up against Arthur, I figure they'd just go back and forth until J'onn and Maxima were done with Stryfe and Apocalypse. If Sinister doesn't take a telepathic route, he seems mostly ignorable.

Originally posted by Existere
It's mostly just because I don't feel like Sinister would play a heavy factor in the way this match goes.

I don't see Arthur's telepathy, though strong, as being much of a factor here, given that he's got J'onn and Max on his team. Aquaman's also really fast and strong, enough so to be a nuisance to Apocalypse and a real problem for Stryfe.

On the flip side, I think telepathy might be all that Sinister offers offensively, and I see him as being sincerely outclassed by his opponents. Other than that, Sinister has an annoying physiology and energy blasts sometimes...

Basically, if he goes up against Arthur, I figure they'd just go back and forth until J'onn and Maxima were done with Stryfe and Apocalypse. If Sinister doesn't take a telepathic route, he seems mostly ignorable.

fair enough. i would say sinister's tp>arthur's and overall i'd give sinister the nod in a straight 1on1 battle against him. his couple showings against nate (x-man) really stick in my head and he's beat down x-factor and the x-men pretty easily..... i'd say he could hold his own against max or j'onn. i'd say apoc could do likewise, given some of his better showings. imo i could see apoc and sinister holding off jonn and max and i can see stryfe taking out am. it wouldn't play out that way all the time, but i could see it happening some of the time at least.

meh, don't feel too strongly about this match, but to me, it's pretty close.

Originally posted by leonidas
fair enough. i would say sinister's tp>arthur's and overall i'd give sinister the nod in a straight 1on1 battle against him. his couple showings against nate (x-man) really stick in my head and he's beat down x-factor and the x-men pretty easily..... i'd say he could hold his own against max or j'onn. i'd say apoc could do likewise, given some of his better showings. imo i could see apoc and sinister holding off jonn and max and i can see stryfe taking out am. it wouldn't play out that way all the time, but i could see it happening some of the time at least.

meh, don't feel too strongly about this match, but to me, it's pretty close. Fair enough. If you give Sinister's telepathy more credit than I do (and there's an argument to be made there, for sure), then I'd call the telepathy for the most part a wash, and go on to continue to back DC because I think the edges they hold (martian vision, phasing, Max's tk, speed, etc) give them more advantages than Marvel. Apocalypse is a bit of a bastard, and would always be the longest and last man standing for Marvel, but I guess I see J'onn as a slightly more competent version of Apocalypse on average... though they both vary quite a bit. And Maxima is solidly more impressive than either of Apoc's teammates.

But yeah, meh.

again team two aren't pushovers

hey smurph

how does team one handle warren who had the all powerful celestial death seed

i read the issues

why is maxima here

she's a girl

Aquaman like PR said is highly underrated. He was able to get into MM's mind without him knowing and gave a White Martian a headache. He's stronger than Sinister and faster. I can see him going toe to toe with him. At least until Maxima and MM finish off the rest.

Team 1.

^ how fast would you say Marvel is moving in your sig?

At least lightspeed.

^ Oh. Team 1 does win, then.

Thank you.

No prob.

I wish they'd bring Mar-Vell back for real, though...

Civil War: The Return was excellent at first. I was pumped for the resurrection of one of Marvel's greatest heroes.

...Then they had to ruin it.

Originally posted by Galan007
Civil War: The Return What's that?

Originally posted by Galan007
Civil War: The Return was excellent at first. I was pumped for the resurrection of one of Marvel's greatest heroes.

...Then they had to ruin it.

QFT.

I was even half heartedly expecting him to return for good during Chaos War: Dead Avengers.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
What's that? It was a prequel book that led into the last Captain Marvel miniseries (volume 5, I believe.) It was the first comic the 'resurrected' Mar-Vell appeared in:
http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x402/galanpics/th_Civil_War_-_The_Return_001_000.jpg

It was a very good comic that got me *pumped* for Marv's revival... But that excitement was extremely short-lived, as the series itself ended up being horribly done in all aspects.

...But that one comic was still my personal highlight of the entire Civil War ordeal.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
QFT.

I was even half heartedly expecting him to return for good during Chaos War: Dead Avengers. @ u.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
QFT.

I was even half heartedly expecting him to return for good during Chaos War: Dead Avengers. Him dying again was just . I keep hoping they bring Marv back he's been dead for far too long

Originally posted by Galan007
It was a prequel book that led into the last Captain Marvel miniseries (volume 5, I believe.) It was the first comic the 'resurrected' Mar-Vell appeared in:
http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x402/galanpics/th_Civil_War_-_The_Return_001_000.jpg

It was a very good comic that got me *pumped* for Marv's revival... But that excitement was extremely short-lived, as the series itself ended up being horribly done in all aspects.

...But that one comic was still my personal highlight of the entire Civil War ordeal. Was it related to the actual Civil War event storywise?

Originally posted by Parmaniac
Was it related to the actual Civil War event storywise? They talked about the Civil War, but aside from that, no.

Originally posted by zopzop
He absolutely would not beat Sinister. Sorry. Not physically or in a psi war.

This is just one of the ways Apocalypse would end AM, if he was serious about doing so :
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/apocmorph4.png
That's Prime Eternal Ikaris he's destroying. Eternals have total control over their molecular structure and that's why Ikaris didn't outright die. AM wouldn't be so fortunate.

I honestly think he could beat Sinister.

This is a guy that's taken on gods, demons, and an entire Justice League roster (albeit one very different from the standared lineup). Sinister would have a hell of a time with him on a normal day. And Apocalypse isn't one-shotting him, not if we go by average portrayals.

And Arthur's telepathy is more impressive than Apocalypse's, which you could argue barely exists in the first place.

Originally posted by leonidas
yo smurph--you seem quick to toss away sinister in this match, who i've always thought was a pretty tough bastard (from a few of his showings). just wondering how come? not sure apoc could use tp, but i'm pretty sure they wouldn't take him out with it. he's pretty versatile and i think would be difficult to take out physically.

sorry pr, am has said a couple times that mm is quite a bit beyond him tp-wise. one time he even says j'onn is 10x the telepath he is. that is not true, but mm is quite a bit beyond him and on land, i don't see arthur being much of a factor here. stryfe has some pretty good feats as well. underestimating? maybe, but i'm just going by his most consistent showings i think.

seems perhaps the marvel side is being slightly underestimated. i at least think it would be a close fight.

"on land"?

And I'm not disputing that J'onn is superior; he is. That's not a bad mark against Arthur though, considering how accomplished J'onn is.

t2 still

Team 2 after a long fight.

Is MM still vulnerable to fire? Because Poccy buuuuurnssses!

http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/sp/3ebe7b237b81f4bce4401abae561f1c4/Wolverine_and_the_X-Men_04_TheGroup-Megan_pg16.jpg

Aquaman is the weak link here. Sinister takes him out easily.

Stryfe and Apocalypse (depending on how much he jobs) can at the VERY least stalemate Maxima and Martian Manhunter respectively until Sinister steamrolls Arthur. Then it'd be 3 on 2. Not liking Team 1's odds there.

lol at this guy referring to ikaris like he's a threat or something


Aquaman solos

Team 1. J'onn and maxima are enough to win here.

Originally posted by Existere
I would ask you to post feats, but this has already been hashed out.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=474929&pagenumber=2#post10064189

Just catch yourself up to date.

Oh please. Even "only" his Jean and Prof. X TP feats are valid, it's still more than enough for him to ignore any of Team 1's TP efforts. Against Jean, he REFLECTED her TP attack back on her, against Prof. X he straight up PSI Blasted his @$$.

AM, or Maxima, or MM tries to psi blast him and they wind up eating their own attack. PS, Sinister has done this too. To X-MAN! Reflected his own psi attack back on him..............MAGNIFIED 10 times.

Team 2 FTW.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
lol at this guy referring to ikaris like he's a threat or something


Aquaman solos

That was PRIME ETERNAL Ikaris. PRIME ETERNAL Sin.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I honestly think he could beat Sinister.

This is a guy that's taken on gods, demons, and an entire Justice League roster (albeit one very different from the standared lineup). Sinister would have a hell of a time with him on a normal day. And Apocalypse isn't one-shotting him, not if we go by average portrayals.

And Arthur's telepathy is more impressive than Apocalypse's, which you could argue barely exists in the first place.


Either Sinister or Apoc can reflect AM's psibolt back at him like they've done on panel before. In Sinister's case, he'd reflect it back on AM and multiply it 10 times, like he did vs X-Man (who IMHO is a FAR superior Psi than AM).

AM is by far the weakest link in this match up.

Originally posted by zopzop
That was PRIME ETERNAL Ikaris. PRIME ETERNAL Sin.
And? What are ikaris' feats, so that we could be impressed by blue lips beating him?

Originally posted by zopzop
Either Sinister or Apoc can reflect AM's psibolt back at him like they've done on panel before. In Sinister's case, he'd reflect it back on AM and multiply it 10 times, like he did vs X-Man (who IMHO is a FAR superior Psi than AM).

AM is by far the weakest link in this match up.
Aquaman resisted starro's mind control . That's quite good but IIRC there was some context you are leaving about sinister beating nate. Arthur may be a weak link here, but j'onn and maxima are enough powerful to win by themselves. Arthur is just as a bonus here who can go toe to toe with anyone in team 2 for quite a while. Nobody in team 2 is stomping arthur.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Aquaman resisted starro's mind control . That's quite good but IIRC there was some context you are leaving about sinister beating nate. Arthur may be a weak link here, but j'onn and maxima are enough powerful to win by themselves. Arthur is just as a bonus here who can go toe to toe with anyone in team 2 for quite a while. Nobody in team 2 is stomping arthur.

Apoc or Sinister FOR SURE stomp AM. Also, resisting Starro is nice and all but what's that got to do with Apoc or Sinister reflecting AM's psi bolt back at him (and in Sinister's case magnifying it 10 times before doing so)?

AM, the weakest link, is on Team 1. A character with a weakness to a common energy attack (fire) is on Team 1. NO ONE on Team 2 has any weaknesses that exploitable by Team 1.

This isn't hard people.

Originally posted by zopzop
Oh please. Even "only" his Jean and Prof. X TP feats are valid, it's still more than enough for him to ignore any of Team 1's TP efforts. Against Jean, he REFLECTED her TP attack back on her, against Prof. X he straight up PSI Blasted his @$$.



Even if Apocalypse has questionable telepathy. Poccy has unquestionably strong mental defenses, per history (to this date, Poccy has no sold mental phuckery) - to the most recent revelation that Apocalypse Celestial tech fortifies his mind.

Originally posted by zopzop
Apoc or Sinister FOR SURE stomp AM. Also, resisting Starro is nice and all but what's that got to do with Apoc or Sinister reflecting AM's psi bolt back at him (and in Sinister's case magnifying it 10 times before doing so)?

AM, the weakest link, is on Team 1. A character with a weakness to a common energy attack (fire) is on Team 1. NO ONE on Team 2 has any weaknesses that exploitable by Team 1.

This isn't hard people.
Not at all, arthur made a white martian pass out by giving him seizures. It doesn't work as normal telepathy or as psibolts as it affects the parts of brain evolved from marine life. As bad as manhunter is with fire, it isn't insta-win as he can phase through it and only naked flame has the most affect on him otherwise he's taken amazo's hv point blank without going down, maxima can block any fire attacks by her telekinesis or make avatars as powerful as herself. Both manhunter and maxima are in superman class strength level and it would be downfall of team 2 and no apoc isn't stomping arthur, namor has taken apoc in h2h and while not as strong as namor, arthur isn't too shabby in strength department. Everyone in team 2 is weak to punches, this isn't too hard zop.

Originally posted by zopzop
Oh please. Even "only" his Jean and Prof. X TP feats are valid, it's still more than enough for him to ignore any of Team 1's TP efforts.

MM has better TP feats than both Jean and Prof X

^Not to mention maxima who lobotomized an amped brainiac and oneshotted orion.

Originally posted by zopzop
Apoc or Sinister FOR SURE stomp AM. Also, resisting Starro is nice and all but what's that got to do with Apoc or Sinister reflecting AM's psi bolt back at him (and in Sinister's case magnifying it 10 times before doing so)?

AM, the weakest link, is on Team 1. A character with a weakness to a common energy attack (fire) is on Team 1. NO ONE on Team 2 has any weaknesses that exploitable by Team 1.

This isn't hard people.

Sinister stomps someone who took out Olympian? Or resisted Maxima's mental powers? Or someone who has traded blows with lobo? Or Superboy? Or Wonder Woman? Or someone who probed Martian manhunter without him knowing? Or Power Ring? Or Superwoman? Or mentally controlling Millenium Giants? Or going toe to toe with Tempest? Depero certainly didn't own him. Or Superman for that matter. ALL of these guys are superior to Sinister in one way or another. It's not that hard to comprehend.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Everyone in team 2 is weak to punches, this isn't too hard zop.

Wrong. Two people on team 2, Apoc and Sinister, have complete control of their bodies down to the molecular level. Physical attacks aren't gonna do anything to them. So that's out.

Again, comes down to Team 2 having ZERO weaknesses while Team 1 has the weak link and a member weak to a common element. Again, Team 2 wins.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Sinister stomps someone who took out Olympian? Or resisted Maxima's mental powers? Or someone who has traded blows with lobo? Or Superboy? Or Wonder Woman? Or someone who probed Martian manhunter without him knowing? Or Power Ring? Or Superwoman? Or mentally controlling Millenium Giants? Or going toe to toe with Tempest? Depero certainly didn't own him. Or Superman for that matter.

Yes.

Originally posted by zopzop
Wrong. Two people on team 2, Apoc and Sinister, have complete control of their bodies down to the molecular level. Physical attacks aren't gonna do anything to them. So that's out.

Again, comes down to Team 2 having ZERO weaknesses while Team 1 has the weak link and a member weak to a common element. Again, Team 2 wins.


your reading too much into stats and not actual showings. your also downplaying Authur

hey all

those picking t1 how do they combat warren w/the death seed

zop is correct t2 wins

Originally posted by Sin I AM
your reading too much into stats and not actual showings. your also downplaying Authur

I agree. Zop can't really say anything, because Aquaman has held his own with top tiers in the past. He has a better record than Sinister.

has he been bold enough to challenge a celestial

Originally posted by Prep-Man
I agree. Zop can't really say anything, because Aquaman has held his own with top tiers in the past. He has a better record than Sinister.

But I am saying "anything" I'm disputing the fact that AM has a better record than Sinister. That is straight up false.

Originally posted by -Pr-
"on land"?


always a caveat.

Originally posted by zopzop
But I am saying "anything" I'm disputing the fact that AM has a better record than Sinister. That is straight up false.


What feats are you referring too

Originally posted by Sin I AM
What feats are you referring too

In his respect thread I linked too. Holding off Psylocke while facing multiple X-Men on the Astral Plane. Returning X-Man's psibolt back at him and magnifying the power 10 times. It's all there and more.

Nothing there that shows he can hang with top tiers like Arthur has.

Originally posted by zopzop
In his respect thread I linked too. Holding off Psylocke while facing multiple X-Men on the Astral Plane. Returning X-Man's psibolt back at him and magnifying the power 10 times. It's all there and more.

hey zop

do u think anyone on team 1 has a feat comparable to what mr sin just pulled off

Turning Nate Grey's psychic attack around on him alone is a feat beyond anything Aquaman could do. Nate Grey is certainly a more powerful telepath than the "Top Tiers" Aquaman supposedly can hang with. Heck even his tranny clone is probably a better telepath than Arthur as she was able to detect and avoid psychic traps that Xavier couldn't detect.

Pre-Shaman Nate? And Aquaman has resisted Maxima's mental brainwashing, who is on par with Sinister.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Pre-Shaman Nate? And Aquaman has resisted Maxima's mental brainwashing, who is on par with Sinister.

For the record, Aquaman managed to shrug off her hypnotic stare. That's not the same thing as her mind control.

Damn, how many types of mental attacks does she have? It's still a good showing for Arthur's will power. He has a lot of mental resisting attacks. Mainly ones from his rogue gallery.

Originally posted by zopzop
Either Sinister or Apoc can reflect AM's psibolt back at him like they've done on panel before. In Sinister's case, he'd reflect it back on AM and multiply it 10 times, like he did vs X-Man (who IMHO is a FAR superior Psi than AM).

AM is by far the weakest link in this match up.

I'd like to see Sinister try, tbh. Arthur is not often portrayed as a surgeon with his telepathy, but more a sledgehammer, an overriding will that bends his enemies to it and forces them to submit. I could see him putting the hurt on Sinister as often as Sinister might take him down.

Honestly, you calling the guy a piece of garbage makes me wonder if you've actually read much about the guy.

Originally posted by zopzop
But I am saying "anything" I'm disputing the fact that AM has a better record than Sinister. That is straight up false.

Of telepathic skill? No. Of telepathic will? Arthur could easily edge it, imo.

Originally posted by leonidas
always a caveat.

Maybe in the early 90s, but I don't think so nowadays, tbh. Even in the early 00s, it wasn't as big a deal imo.

Rachel Grey (and this was when she could tap into the Phoenix Force) tried to sledgehammer her way to victory with Emma Frost. How did that turn out?

Originally posted by Glorificus
Rachel Grey (and this was when she could tap into the Phoenix Force) tried to sledgehammer her way to victory with Emma Frost. How did that turn out?

Rachel =/= Arthur, though, and I did say "not often". He has instances of using impressive skill when he's needed to.

Originally posted by zopzop
Wrong. Two people on team 2, Apoc and Sinister, have complete control of their bodies down to the molecular level. Physical attacks aren't gonna do anything to them. So that's out.

Again, comes down to Team 2 having ZERO weaknesses while Team 1 has the weak link and a member weak to a common element. Again, Team 2 wins.
You are taking molecular control too far, people with total molecular control have been beaten with just punches before. Heck j'onn himself has total control over his molecules and captain marvel almost killed him while brainwashed by mere punches. You are also taking weakness exploitation too far, j'onn has worked around it. Nobody in team 2 has strength or speed to match manhunter, team 1 wins handidly.

Apocalypse has no business here.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Damn, how many types of mental attacks does she have? It's still a good showing for Arthur's will power. He has a lot of mental resisting attacks. Mainly ones from his rogue gallery.

Agreed.

That said, I don't think it matters in this match up. I haven't seen anything in this thread that would lead me to believe that Sinister, Stryfe, or Apocalypse are immune to having Aquaman do the tapdance on their mutant basal ganglia. Being that they are in fact mutants, one would be silly to bet against basic evolutionary biology. Certainly, they are not better off than a White Martian.

Stryfe punks Martian Manhunter...just too da** powerful.

Originally posted by carver9
Stryfe punks Martian Manhunter...just too da** powerful.
What has stryfe done to beat j'onn?

Originally posted by abhilegend
What has stryfe done to beat j'onn?


abolutely nothing....this marvel cock-riding is non-sensical. Maxima is more than capable of taking a good solid majority of anyone on team two, total molecular control is nothing seeing how "PRIME Eternal" Ikaris has it, and its never prevented him getting ktfo. MM is being underrated, he is the swiss army knife of the league....more than capable of hanging with supes and his weakness exploitation (iirc he doesnt have it anymore) can be easily overcome; phasing. Which leaves Aquaman a herald level brick with TP, and the ability to induce seisures in humans...something someone like stryfe could not prevent. Plus its a common misconception that out of water Aquaman immediately gets weaker...it takesa prolonged period of time for that to happen. Anyone whos held his own against despero, casually hung at depths that were cracking gl constructs, and mind controlled supes is no pushover

morning sin

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Which leaves Aquaman a herald level brick with TP

Originally posted by zopzop


he is herald, whether u like it or not whereas sinister isnt

Originally posted by carver9
Stryfe punks Martian Manhunter...just too da** powerful. Proof?

Originally posted by zopzop

Originally posted by zopzop
Wrong. Two people on team 2, Apoc and Sinister, have complete control of their bodies down to the molecular level. Physical attacks aren't gonna do anything to them. So that's out.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
he is herald, whether u like it or not whereas sinister isnt

If AM is "herald" level then Sinister is freaking Trans. But we know neither of those statements are true. AM is not herald level at all.

Sinister has no feats that put him on that level. He has a few good showings, of course, but Aquaman has more.

Originally posted by zopzop
If AM is "herald" level then Sinister is freaking Trans. But we know neither of those statements are true. AM is not herald level at all.

Agreed. I never thought Aquaman was Low Herald. He's soldly in High Meta in my book. Strength/durability-wise, he's below Colossus. Telepathy-wise, he's below Emma Frost or Sinister.

AM has more than one way to take down someone through the brain. His tp works differently than say Stryfe's. And it WILL work. Strength wise, he can hang with some of the best for a little while at least. He's certainly stronger than Sinister. Faster to boot.

Originally posted by Glorificus
Agreed. I never thought Aquaman was Low Herald. He's soldly in High Meta in my book. Strength/durability-wise, he's below Colossus. Telepathy-wise, he's below Emma Frost or Sinister.

Insinuating that Emma and Sinister are comparable tp-wise?

Originally posted by Konton
Insinuating that Emma and Sinister are comparable tp-wise?

Well according to Exodus, he, Emma, Sinister, Jean and Xavier were all roughly in the same top tier of Earth telepaths.

Originally posted by Glorificus
Well according to Exodus, he, Emma, Sinister, Jean and Xavier were all roughly in the same top tier of Earth telepaths.

Idk, all I can remember Sinister doing is knocking down Nate via tp, taking out Betsy, and mindraping a tp-less Jean Grey.

Emma, on the other hand, has blocked Exodus, Lady Mastermind, and Sinister from accessing their powers, without aid from cerebra, while sitting on a sofa half way across the globe.

Originally posted by Konton
Idk, all I can remember Sinister doing is knocking down Nate via tp, taking out Betsy, and mindraping a tp-less Jean Grey.

Emma, on the other hand, has blocked Exodus, Lady Mastermind, and Sinister from accessing their powers, without aid from cerebra, while sitting on a sofa half way across the globe.

She didn't block their access to their powers. She blocked their access to the X-men's minds. Sinister and Exodus I'm sure could still blast energy and use telekinesis. It's not like she's powerful enough to shut down their minds halfway across the globe without Cerebra.

Originally posted by Glorificus
She didn't block their access to their powers. She blocked their access to the X-men's minds. Sinister and Exodus I'm sure could still blast energy and use telekinesis. It's not like she's powerful enough to shut down their minds halfway across the globe without Cerebra. This she was just protecting her team from tp assault

Pretty sure it was implied that they were helpless. Sinister couldn't get into their minds, Exodus couldn't do anything and was BFR-d by Nightcrawler, and it wasnt until Emma broke concentration that Sinister's tk came back online (he was left kneeling and out of the fight until Pixie screamed and Emma broke off)

Even if she was just shielding them, which I don't think the context agrees with, that's pretty amazing considering the distance and lack of effort. The whole thing was played out to make Emma seem badass. When the scene cut back to where she was, Cyclops started talking to her and all she had to say was "Miles away, darling" or something to that effect.

Originally posted by zopzop
If AM is "herald" level then Sinister is freaking Trans. But we know neither of those statements are true. AM is not herald level at all.

His durability is if we talk about blunt force trauma (he'd be above, say, Colossus for example). And his strength is enough to knock people like J'onn and Superboy on their asses.

He might not be herald, but he's very close to it.

I'd consider classic Aquaman to be High Meta/Low Herald. Hell, can't he basically summon C'thulu like beings if he was inclined to?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I'd consider classic Aquaman to be High Meta/Low Herald. Hell, can't he basically summon C'thulu like beings if he was inclined to?

Pretty much, though I think we were more talking about his straight up physicality.

his strength, speed and durability are low herald level ...and his tp makes up for any shortcomings he may have...plus his feats plant him firmly in the herald category

Originally posted by Sin I AM
his strength, speed and durability are low herald level ...and his tp makes up for any shortcomings he may have...plus his feats plant him firmly in the herald category

His strength, at its highest is maybe low herald, but i'd say more high meta. Durability is up there, and speed is... Not sure tbh. Travel speed yes, but reflexes are nothing most streets havent done.

Originally posted by -Pr-
His strength, at its highest is maybe low herald, but i'd say more high meta. Durability is up there, and speed is... Not sure tbh. Travel speed yes, but reflexes are nothing most streets havent done.


who are we talking about here current? or pre-reboot

Originally posted by Sin I AM
who are we talking about here current? or pre-reboot

Both, as they seem to be pretty similar imo.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Both, as they seem to be pretty similar imo.


no dont really think so...the new AM is more susceptible to being out of water...and less durrable imo

yall just don't play fair

sinister stole tiamut's reality warping power for a bit

he's very smart, cunning and has toyed with many for a long time

i asked who counters warren with the celestial death seed...i guess no one

stryfe isn't weak at all

t2 is being very very undersold here

peer into the abilities and feats of t2 before saying t1 automatically wins and its not just marvel>>>dc

Originally posted by guy222
yall just don't play fair

sinister stole tiamut's reality warping power for a bit

he's very smart, cunning and has toyed with many for a long time

i asked who counters warren with the celestial death seed...i guess no one

stryfe isn't weak at all

t2 is being very very undersold here

peer into the abilities and feats of t2 before saying t1 automatically wins and its not just marvel>>>dc


Sinister doesn't have tiamut's powers here and its classic apocalypse not archangel. Not really, team 1 wins and its nothing to do with DC>>>marvel.

Originally posted by -Pr-
His strength, at its highest is maybe low herald, but i'd say more high meta. Durability is up there, and speed is... Not sure tbh. Travel speed yes, but reflexes are nothing most streets havent done.

He's faster than Deathstroke.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Sinister doesn't have tiamut's powers here and its classic apocalypse not archangel. Not really, team 1 wins and its nothing to do with DC>>>marvel.

thank u

the thread starter didn't specify which poccy this is and warren is the last to b poccy

and that's sinister latest scheme was usurping the greatest celestial's awesome reality warping powers

and my comparsion to marvel and dc was a joke friend as many favor dc i favor marvel

even classic apoc i give the nod to t2 t2 underappreciative here

Both Apoc and Stryfe aren't in Superman's class. Both Maxima and MM are. Thus they get stomped. Aquaman MIGHT eventually lose to Sinister, but then Sinister has to face both Maxima and MM. Team 1 ftw.

and superman can take over a celestial

or figure out the celestial death seed

superman would own a celestial. celestials would be street level at best if they entered the dcu.

Originally posted by guy222
thank u

the thread starter didn't specify which poccy this is and warren is the last to b poccy

At the time the thread was created, Apoc was a little boy - so I don't think you can just pick and choose a later incarnation...

who is picking and choosing

i know kmc's rules

the thread was made warren was apoc

save some trouble i will ask the thread starter

Originally posted by byrdgang21
Who wins?

good morning

which incarnation of apoc are u using

i think its understood that it is classic apoc, otherwise it would have been stipulated as warren

hey sweetie

we always use current versions even if its classic poccy i gave t2 the nod anyway



and i prolly saw the thread second because i do his threads

Originally posted by guy222
hey sweetie

we always use current versions even if its classic poccy i gave t2 the nod anyway



and i prolly saw the thread second because i do his threads

hey guy


but that would be an incorrect assumption since kid apoc (the real apoc) was around during that arc...if someone created a thread now saying Juggernaut versus Zeus, then it would be assumed the thread starter meant Cain not Piotr since noone considers Colossus to be Juggs even though he is

Originally posted by Sin I AM
no dont really think so...the new AM is more susceptible to being out of water...and less durrable imo

I actually disagree; I think he's as good out of water as he's ever been, and tbh his durability has improved substantially, at least in terms of non-blunt attacks.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
hey guy


but that would be an incorrect assumption since kid apoc (the real apoc) was around during that arc...if someone created a thread now saying Juggernaut versus Zeus, then it would be assumed the thread starter meant Cain not Piotr since noone considers Colossus to be Juggs even though he is

ur so sweet

may i kiss u

Originally posted by -Pr-
I actually disagree; I think he's as good out of water as he's ever been, and tbh his durability has improved substantially, at least in terms of non-blunt attacks.

I think Geoff will increase Aquaman's power. He does that sort of thing.

this i will agree

Originally posted by Prep-Man
I think Geoff will increase Aquaman's power. He does that sort of thing.

Maybe, but I think Geoff has already shown the kind of power he'd put him at; remember, Johns is the one who wrote the arc of JLA where Aquaman briefly fought Despero too.

Yes, anyone named Geoff has the power! biscuits

Johns has said he likes Aquaman as an underdog type, so I don't think he'll amp him. At least not explicitly. Give him good and great showings? Yeah.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Johns has said he likes Aquaman as an underdog type, so I don't think he'll amp him. At least not explicitly. Give him good and great showings? Yeah. Oxymoron, much? ermmnone

Originally posted by Galan007
Oxymoron, much? ermmnone

You know what I mean. uhuh

leftright

No. I. Don't.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Johns has said he likes Aquaman as an underdog type, so I don't think he'll amp him. At least not explicitly. Give him good and great showings? Yeah.

I don't think he meant underdog as a power consideration, more regarding the perception of him or the enemies he fought.

Peter David had him fight Poseidon's son ffs.

Originally posted by Galan007
Oxymoron, much? ermmnone

Don't make me go over there.

Originally posted by Arabus
He's faster than Deathstroke.

That for me was always an exception rather than the rule. Not that I would complain if we saw more from him like that.

Any clarification from byrdgang?

I actually had Classic Poccy in mind for this fight. I hope this helps clear things up.