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Been wondering about this for a while. I'm not sure who'd take the number 4 spot on Akatsuki's strongest between the two of them. So hey, best argument wins right?

Fight takes place in the area where Team 7 tried to get the bells from Kakashi. Both go into this fresh, no Edo Tensei for Orochimaru.

Who wins? The Shark or the Snake?

Everyone knows Itachi is better than both. 313

Hm, Kisame has a lot of brute power, but Orochimaru's not that bad in that area himself, and he's a good deal more versatile. Also, he doesn't use many pure-chakra techniques for Kisame to eat, having a lot of physical jutsu instead. Stuff like poison, too.

I would tend to give this to Orochimaru on versatility, but good fight.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Everyone knows Itachi is better than both. 313

Indeed. Which is why he'd be in the top 3. I wouldn't give him number 4.

Yea, everyone knows the top three are Itachi, Pain, and Hidan.

Originally posted by Q99
Yea, everyone knows the top three are Itachi, Pain, and Hidan. I actually loled.

Kisame is not much slower, is far physically stronger, and has much more chakra. Orochimaru has the edge in raw versatility and intellect though.

Kisame's Water Jutsu can be quite hax though, particularly the big bubble of doom.

I did too. Q99, you clever little rascal.

What a kiss-ass.

Shut up and get back to reading Negima, you girl. Quit derailing my thread. uhuh

I have read all of Berserk and Vinland Saga, your argument is invalid.

Quiet you Hinata fanboy.

Lesse...according to stats, Akatsuki would be ranked like this...

Itachi
Orochimaru
Sasori
Kisame/Kakuzu
Deidara
Hidan

Pain, Konan, Zetsu and Tobi lack stats.

And I really don't think Kakuzu is better than Deidara...

That's because stats suck and are outdated.

Indeed, but they still hold some weight when I decide things like this.

Orochimaru is one of the most powerful, intelligent, and versatile characters in all of Naruto. The only thing he lacked was sharingan eyeballs: Danzo took them all. If Orochimaru could have gotten himself some eyeballs, he'd be the most powerful character, by far.


Kisame? He's fairly linear. He's great at fighting against chakra-heavy opponents but against someone with brains or against someone with decent versatility in jutsu? He'd fail. Kisame is generally overrated by his fans...which are just about everyone that likes the Naruto manga.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Orochimaru is one of the most powerful, intelligent, and versatile characters in all of Naruto. The only thing he lacked was sharingan eyeballs: Danzo took them all. If Orochimaru could have gotten himself some eyeballs, he'd be the most powerful character, by far.


Kisame? He's fairly linear. He's great at fighting against chakra-heavy opponents but against someone with brains or against someone with decent versatility in jutsu? He'd fail. Kisame is generally overrated by his fans...which are just about everyone that likes the Naruto manga. Kisame is linear, but he is also much physically stronger, a better fighter, not much slower, and the Jutsus he does have make him a powerhouse.

That said, he probably wouldn't beat Orochimaru.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Quiet you Hinata fanboy.

Lesse...according to stats, Akatsuki would be ranked like this...

Itachi
Orochimaru
Sasori
Kisame/Kakuzu
Deidara
Hidan

Pain, Konan, Zetsu and Tobi lack stats.

And I really don't think Kakuzu is better than Deidara...

I'd say the stats are pretty close, but don't always tell the whole picture. Some specials don't show up on stats very well, and sometime someone's a barely-5 and sometimes they're an over-the-top 5.


For Kakuzu and Deidara, Kakuzu has less offense, but more defense than Deidara. Plus the chance to element-trump almost anyone, and his weird string-melee thing. So I can see them being roughly similar on level.

does Oro have Manda?

Summoning Manda is a normal jutsu for him.


Plus he can turn into the 8-headed snake.

An aquatic form like a snake does make lake-bubble less of a handicap.

Originally posted by Q99
Summoning Manda is a normal jutsu for him.


Plus he can turn into the 8-headed snake.

An aquatic form like a snake does make lake-bubble less of a handicap.

Not saying Kisame wins but does the 8 head snake do anything other than be bigger than Manda? It's size would be a great asset but it really didn't do anything despite being Orochimaru's strongest jutsu.

Oh well looks like Kisame isn't so lucky this time.

Kisame doesn't have anything that would put Oro down and Oro has enough long range abilities to make kisame's chakra leeching irrelevant. Oro could just spam those poisonous snakes like he did against 4 tailed Naruto... and i don't think Kisame is capable to doing what 4 tailed naruto did to counter it.

Kisame could launch a giant shark torpedo at it I guess. Then again he'd have to make a mini lake first wouldn't he?

Originally posted by Q99
I'd say the stats are pretty close, but don't always tell the whole picture. Some specials don't show up on stats very well, and sometime someone's a barely-5 and sometimes they're an over-the-top 5.


For Kakuzu and Deidara, Kakuzu has less offense, but more defense than Deidara. Plus the chance to element-trump almost anyone, and his weird string-melee thing. So I can see them being roughly similar on level.

Indeed. Like for example, I'm not sure they factor in weapons like Samehada. Which is why I think Kisame by all rights should be stronger than Kakuzu.

Indeed, Kakuzu has a better defense. The only real thing Deidara has over him is C4. But this is enough for me because C4 is easily one of the most broken techniques in Naruto.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Indeed, but they still hold some weight when I decide things like this.

Figures you'd use sucky and outdated things to make decisions. uhuh

Also, due to my bias for Kisame being greater, I give the edge to Kisame. awesome

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Indeed. Like for example, I'm not sure they factor in weapons like Samehada. Which is why I think Kisame by all rights should be stronger than Kakuzu.

Indeed, Kakuzu has a better defense. The only real thing Deidara has over him is C4. But this is enough for me because C4 is easily one of the most broken techniques in Naruto.

As well as range & intelligence. That said, Kakuzu could probably draw him in close.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Figures you'd use sucky and outdated things to make decisions. uhuh

Also, due to my bias for Kisame being greater, I give the edge to Kisame. awesome

As well as range & intelligence. That said, Kakuzu could probably draw him in close.

Oi...at least I'm not using statements way back when...like saying Jiraiya could beat Kisame and Itachi at the same time. awesome

Well I am bias for Orochimaru...or at least, I prefer Orochimaru to Kisame.

Those two. But how? I guess he could use the masks but I doubt they're as mobile as Gaara's sand attacks.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Oi...at least I'm not using statements way back when...like saying Jiraiya could beat Kisame and Itachi at the same time. awesome

Well I am bias for Orochimaru...or at least, I prefer Orochimaru to Kisame.

Those two. But how? I guess he could use the masks but I doubt they're as mobile as Gaara's sand attacks.

But stats suck worse than a ridiculous hyperbolic statements from a guy that wanted to throw Jiraiya-fans a bone.

Me too, but I like Kisame more. Showing up a really awesome character will do that.

Range is no question. As for intelligence, he forced Gaara to beat himself.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Not saying Kisame wins but does the 8 head snake do anything other than be bigger than Manda? It's size would be a great asset but it really didn't do anything despite being Orochimaru's strongest jutsu.


It's got 8-heads!


Mostly I'm thinking it'd be pretty effective as an underwater form if Kisame made a lake-bubble. It'd be pretty overwhelming.


Also, apparently it's destruction doesn't bother Orochimaru (as it's heads were cut off to no real ill effect to him), so he can basically use it as a big fleshy shield too.

Kakuzu would beat up Deidara.

I am just saying.

How would he beat C4? mmm

By being faster than Deidara and strong enough to one-shot him? mmm

Well if we're going to be technical, I don't think he is faster.

He does have the lightning heart.

If that goes down, he's dead, but it lets him deal with a lot of stuff via diffusing.

Personally I think theirs'd be a great back-and-forth fight.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Well if we're going to be technical, I don't think he is faster. I think you're probably wrong boyo.

Originally posted by Q99
He does have the lightning heart.

If that goes down, he's dead, but it lets him deal with a lot of stuff via diffusing.

Personally I think theirs'd be a great back-and-forth fight.

Indeed. He'd have to figure out Deidara's techniques were Doton though I don't see it taking him very long.

But C4 seems more than Kakuzu could handle.

I agree.

Originally posted by NemeBro
I think you're probably wrong boyo.

Best Kakuzu speed showings?

Pretty sure he either blitzed or counter-blitzed Kakashi, compared to Deidara, who just sort of ran away from Guy.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Pretty sure he either blitzed or counter-blitzed Kakashi, compared to Deidara, who just sort of ran away from Guy.

Kakashi thought he was dead, so he was more caught off guard than anything. His attacks against Kakashi later involved creating an opening and catching him via strings when he was mostly out of chakra.

Deidara and Team Guy were both tired and yet Deidara still made them look like a pack of nubs. Which is more impressive imo. He also managed pretty darn well against Hebi Sasuke, who imo is faster than Kakashi. And he has made better use of the substitution jutsu, which hurts any speedster.

That's not even counting the times he ran away from explosions.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Pretty sure he either blitzed or counter-blitzed Kakashi, compared to Deidara, who just sort of ran away from Guy.

Pretty sure Sasuke is faster than Kakuzu.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Kakashi thought he was dead, so he was more caught off guard than anything. His attacks against Kakashi later involved creating an opening and catching him via strings when he was mostly out of chakra.

Deidara and Team Guy were both tired and yet Deidara still made them look like a pack of nubs. Which is more impressive imo. He also managed pretty darn well against Hebi Sasuke, who imo is faster than Kakashi. And he has made better use of the substitution jutsu, which hurts any speedster.

That's not even counting the times he ran away from explosions. kakuzu clearly kicked kakashi's ass, granted it was after kakashi "killed" him (99% of ninja would have died just there), but you also have to consider kakuzu was preoccupied and kakashi wasn't there at first so it kinda cancels itself out

one one one kakashi would go down, but kakuzu has most likely the chackra of five men w/five different chackra natures, and is partially immortal, no small task for anyone to overcome.

as for deidara: he has a mobility advantage and range/area effect advantage, but kakuzu also has the ability to split off bodies, one can fly itself, and he too can go airborn if he chooses to. kakuzu should have the chackra capacity advantage and defense.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
kakuzu clearly kicked kakashi's ass, granted it was after kakashi "killed" him (99% of ninja would have died just there), but you also have to consider kakuzu was preoccupied and kakashi wasn't there at first so it kinda cancels itself out

one one one kakashi would go down, but kakuzu has most likely the chackra of five men w/five different chackra natures, and is partially immortal, no small task for anyone to overcome.

Yep. When Kakashi though he was dead. And after Kakashi stealth blitzed him I guess. But Kakuzu never seemed all that fast. Asuma actually seemed faster in my humble opinion.

Yeah, pretty much. But his broken attack would still easily kill Kakuzu if he used it. Deidara is less hesitant about using C4 so he should logically do better.

Then again, Kakashi would be able to beat Deidara due to certain luck factors on his part. Well, C0 might make it a tie.

that kick he landed on kakashi was one of the fastest speed feats in the manga (minus special speed amp/teleport techniques)

and from what we know now kakashi would have had a far harder time with deidara if he used his arsenal on him, kakashi has afar less defenses for that type of onslaught, and what he does have is limited and draining.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Indeed. He'd have to figure out Deidara's techniques were Doton though I don't see it taking him very long.



Being fellow Akatsuki, and for quite awhile, I'd be surprised if they didn't have some knowledge of each other's techniques.

Kakuzu would be a bad matchup for Deidara. All of his aerial attacks would be countered easily if Kakuzu released his masks and shot them outta the sky... this would also pressure Deidara in a way that Kakashi or Sasuke couldn't.

but yeah, Kakuzu has no answer for c4; not unless he can also summon a giant snake to hide inside.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
that kick he landed on kakashi was one of the fastest speed feats in the manga (minus special speed amp/teleport techniques)

and from what we know now kakashi would have had a far harder time with deidara if he used his arsenal on him, kakashi has afar less defenses for that type of onslaught, and what he does have is limited and draining.

That's a pretty bold statement. Especially when Kakuzu himself has had trouble with other fast characters.

Nope. Kakashi has the type of chakra to render all of Deidara's bombs worthless and the means to counter it.

Originally posted by Q99
Being fellow Akatsuki, and for quite awhile, I'd be surprised if they didn't have some knowledge of each other's techniques.

Which would mean Deidara would merely have to take out the lightning mask asap. Not too hard.

I typed of three paragraphs on this thread and I don't know where that post went.

Oh well, guess I'll just state it again.


Orochimaru wins. Oro has only 2 weaknesses: not having the shargingan eyes and becoming weaker every 2.5 years. That's pretty cool because pretty much all characters have many more weaknesses like...being meat bags. "But isn't Oro a meat bag?" Yes...but he can regen almost his entire body for quite a few times, unlike every single other meatbag ninja.

Kisame loses. It's not a landslide, but he loses without Oro having to try too hard.


Originally posted by marwash22
Kakuzu would be a bad matchup for Deidara. All of his aerial attacks would be countered easily if Kakuzu released his masks and shot them outta the sky... this would also pressure Deidara in a way that Kakashi or Sasuke couldn't.

but yeah, Kakuzu has no answer for c4; not unless he can also summon a giant snake to hide inside.

He has earth type jutsus so he could easily hide underground. He wouldn't have to hide very deep, as well.

go underground to escape c4?

....How does Kakuzu know what C4 even does? :l

don't think he does, which is why he wouldn't have an answer for it. I suppose it could be possible for the akatsuki members to know each others techniques, but i doubt the members who aren't paired together have that sort of in depth knowledge.

heh, c3 would likely be enough to kill kakuzu.

Indeed, especially considering he was keeping it a secret to kill Itachi. The more people that know about it, the more likely Itachi would find out. Tobi knew but he was his teammate.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel


Which would mean Deidara would merely have to take out the lightning mask asap. Not too hard.

Pretty hard if Kakuzu keeps it attached.

those masks are pretty darn fast and agile and they operate independently whereas Deidara has to control his bombs. the masks will likely shoot down anything Deidara launches. Also, any of them (not just the lighting mask) can take out the bombs.

More discussion has gone into Kakuzu vs Deidara than Orochimaru vs Kisame...>_>

Originally posted by Q99
Pretty hard if Kakuzu keeps it attached.

Nah. Just use a sneak attack.

Wonder if he could have a clay bomb hide the land mines? That would be cool.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
....How does Kakuzu know what C4 even does? :l

Remember when Itachi commented on Oro's hydra tech? You know...the one none of us knew about?

What about Mr. Venus Fly Trap Clone Dude? He seemed to be intimately familiar with every aspect of Itachi's techs.

And it is not that hard to conclude:

"A little bit of explosion clay mixed with a little bit of chakra: small explosion."

"A lot of explosion clay mixed with a lot of chakra: big explosion."

Unless, of course, you think Kakuzu is more of an idiot than Naruto (impossibru!).



C4 MAKES the person thing it will be a huge explosion which makes them run. They run ... get out of breath...and breath in the tiny bombs

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v40/c360/10.html


Kakuzu, being a very smart ninja (he's one of the smarter ones...living a long ass time and all) will always know about elemental weaknesses. Also, he doesn't have any lungs to breath it in. Also, he can always go underground while something that huge explodes.





Originally posted by marwash22
go underground to escape c4?

Yes. Why is that a problem?

Found it:

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v40/c363/6.html


The crater isn't that deep. He can escape C0, too.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Yes. Why is that a problem? no problem.


In my initial response i was confusing c0 for c4 and thought there was no way in hell going underground was gonna save him from the blast (of c0)Originally posted by dadudemon
Found it:

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v40/c363/6.html


The crater isn't that deep. He can escape C0, too. no way. that crater is deeper than you think.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Remember when Itachi commented on Oro's hydra tech? You know...the one none of us knew about?

What about Mr. Venus Fly Trap Clone Dude? He seemed to be intimately familiar with every aspect of Itachi's techs.

Unless, of course, you think Kakuzu is more of an idiot than Naruto (impossibru!).

Kakuzu, being a very smart ninja (he's one of the smarter ones...living a long ass time and all) will always know about elemental weaknesses. Also, he doesn't have any lungs to breath it in. Also, he can always go underground while something that huge explodes.


Itachi is not Kakuzu, and Orochimaru is not Deidara.

Zetsu is far more in the know about everything. Moreso than Kakuzu. Remember, C4 was a technique Deidara was saving for his fight with Itachi. Why would he tell anyone about it except his partner?

Considering Naruto outsmarted him...Yeah.

Proof that he doesn't have lungs?

Originally posted by dadudemon
Remember when Itachi commented on Oro's hydra tech? You know...the one none of us knew about?

Itachi has worked with Orochimaru as far as we know, and they have fought each other. The same cannot be said of Kakuzu and Deidara.

Originally posted by dadudemon
What about Mr. Venus Fly Trap Clone Dude? He seemed to be intimately familiar with every aspect of Itachi's techs.

Mr. Venus Fly Trap Clone Dude is intimately close to Mr. One Eyed Teleporting Dude, who is intimately familiar with MS techs.

Originally posted by dadudemon
And it is not that hard to conclude:

"A little bit of explosion clay mixed with a little bit of chakra: small explosion."

"A lot of explosion clay mixed with a lot of chakra: big explosion."

Doesn't mean Kakuzu will know what C4 does.
He'll probably know what C0 does though, seeing as Deidara would want to make his opponents shit their pants with it.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Unless, of course, you think Kakuzu is more of an idiot than Naruto (impossibru!).

Naruto outsmarted him and he is a better tactician.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Kakuzu, being a very smart ninja (he's one of the smarter ones...living a long ass time and all) will always know about elemental weaknesses. Also, he doesn't have any lungs to breath it in. Also, he can always go underground while something that huge explodes.

Can't remember him not having lungs. Where was this stated?