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This is a fist fight...no bfring....who wins?

spite. what is superman going to do in a pure slugfest?

CS

If it's a slugfest, Citizen Steel all the way.

reflex feats for citizen steel?

slug fest doesn't mean that superman can't use his speed. just that he can't fly.

Steel's not particularly fast. If speed's allow, then Clark can avoid him.

I don't see why speed wouldn't be allowed.

If its not allowed, its basically saying; Superman is letting him get hits.

If speed was explicitly stated to be equalized, that's another thing.

Citizen steel.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Citizen steel.

WTF?

Galan...is that you?

I did a double take as well.

I don't recall CS having any speed feats above a typical human. Nor do I recall it being implied that he was faster than a human.

If Superman is allowed to use even a fraction of his speed advantage, he'd win. If it's just trading blows, CS will be the last man standing.

Originally posted by carver9
WTF?

Galan...is that you?
What's so surprising carvy?

Originally posted by Cogito
I don't recall CS having any speed feats above a typical human. Nor do I recall it being implied that he was faster than a human.

If Superman is allowed to use even a fraction of his speed advantage, he'd win. If it's just trading blows, CS will be the last man standing.

Still not convinced of the last part.

Why does CS necessarily win if they simply take turns punching each other?

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Still not convinced of the last part.

Why does CS necessarily win if they simply take turns punching each other?

I'm guessing people are going off the Gog battle. KC SUperman couldn't budge him, then Steel rocked him when his suit was ripped.

Although, there WAS that incidednt with Black Lantern KC Supes...

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I'm guessing people are going off the Gog battle. KC SUperman couldn't budge him, then Steel rocked him when his suit was ripped.

Although, there WAS that incidednt with Black Lantern KC Supes... That... And the fact that CS was able to down 3rd-World Gog, with a mere two punches:
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff191/Galan_photos/th_cs5.jpg http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff191/Galan_photos/th_cs6.jpg

Not even the combined efforts of the entire JSA (inc. KC Superman, Alan Scott, Obsidian, Thunderbolt, etc.) were able to come close to doing that:
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff191/Galan_photos/th_cs3.jpg



Don't get me wrong, CS isn't without his low feats (which, imo, can be written off as PIS considering his history), but he should still take a slug-fest with Supes. Even if Superman managed to move CS with his blows, I don't see him causing any lasting damage. Hits from CS, on the other hand, would f*ck Supes up royally.

I forgot how much I liked Starman lol.

Although, based on what the Thunderbolt can do, is it not PIS for Gog to fall to Steel?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I'm guessing people are going off the Gog battle. KC SUperman couldn't budge him, then Steel rocked him when his suit was ripped.

Although, there WAS that incidednt with Black Lantern KC Supes...
That and the fight with the JSA wrecker Gog. Gog koed KC Superman but was unable to do anything to nathan other than move him slightly. The only low showing of citizen steel was when BL Kal-L simply knocked him away telling him a "paperweight".

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Although, based on what the Thunderbolt can do, is it not PIS for Gog to fall to Steel? Depends what Jakeem ordered T-Bolt to do--which, knowing Jakeem, was probably nothing special.

I mean, we've only seen Jakeem 'let loose' with T-Bolt one time (when he was evil/insane), and when that happened, Jak conquered several dimensions.

Originally posted by abhilegend
The only low showing of citizen steel was when BL Kal-L simply knocked him away telling him a "paperweight". Power Girl moved him, as well. THAT defines PIS, imo.

Originally posted by Galan007
Depends what Jakeem ordered T-Bolt to do--which, knowing Jakeem, was probably nothing special.

I mean, we've only seen Jakeem 'let loose' with T-Bolt one time (when he was evil/insane), and when that happened, Jak conquered several dimensions.

Power Girl moved him, as well. THAT defines PIS, imo.

Move him? What do you mean by that? Does he have Blob powers? What's so special about "moving" him?

Originally posted by Galan007
Depends what Jakeem ordered T-Bolt to do--which, knowing Jakeem, was probably nothing special.

I mean, we've only seen Jakeem 'let loose' with T-Bolt one time (when he was evil/insane), and when that happened, Jak conquered several dimensions.

Power Girl moved him, as well. THAT defines PIS, imo.
Not really, its called low showings. With geoff johns, who knows which character is at what power level on a given day?

Originally posted by carver9
Move him? What do you mean by that? Does he have Blob powers? What's so special about "moving" him? Typically, his is portrayed as 'immovable', with Superman+ strength.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Not really, its called low showings. It is a low showing, but it is also PIS of the highest order.

Fact: Gog>KC Superman>mainstream Superman>Power Girl. If Gog wasn't able to budge CS in the slightest, Power Girl moving him at all is... PIS.

Originally posted by carver9
Move him? What do you mean by that? Does he have Blob powers? What's so special about "moving" him?

You ask that question and you made the thread?

...

Originally posted by Galan007
Typically, his is portrayed as 'immovable', with Superman+ strength.

It is a low showing, but it is also PIS of the highest order.

Fact: Gog>KC Superman>mainstream Superman>Power Girl. If Gog wasn't able to budge CS in the slightest, Power Girl moving him at all is... PIS.
If we go by that route, mainstream superman was handling gog much better than KC superman and just because power girl moved him doesn't mean Kal-L knocking him away PIS. Nate has some very good showings but to declare that a superman class character moving him is PIS is a bit reaching, considering who Kal-L is.

Originally posted by -Pr-
You ask that question and you made the thread?

...
You're surprised?

Originally posted by abhilegend
If we go by that route, mainstream superman was handling gog much better than KC superman Mainstream Superman never battled JSA Gog, did he.

Originally posted by abhilegend
and just because power girl moved him doesn't mean Kal-L knocking him away PIS. I didn't comment on the Kal-L thing--he was a BL, after all. Power Girl nonsensically moving him is all I was referring to.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Nate has some very good showings but to declare that a superman class character moving him is PIS is a bit reaching, considering who Kal-L is. When a Superman++-level character was unable to move him at all, a Superman-level character (namely Power Girl) moving him several feet back is PIS. The punch didn't harm CS, mind you... It was just ridiculous on the writer's part.

Originally posted by Galan007
Mainstream Superman never battled JSA Gog.
Yes, he did. The gog from "wrath of gog" was retconned in JSA as the herald gog and he always had the power of Gog as per the retcon.



Ok but having power ring didn't increase his strength IIRC.


Ah, I can see your POV regarding this topic, but characters vary with writers. It depends on how you view it. I don't consider it PIS./srug

Has anyone actually ever even done damage to CS? As I recall, even Prime failed to do anything but knock him back when he attempted to stab him with psuedo-aquaman's sword (it broke on CS's face) in SC.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yes, he did. The gog from "wrath of gog" was retconned in JSA as the herald gog and he always had the power of Gog as per the retcon. Yes, correct. But mainstream Superman, much like KC Supes, had help in his battle with Gog--yet he was still stomped on a ridiculous level (he needed to be defibrillated to be brought back to life, iirc.) At least KC Supes was clinically ALIVE after his scuffle with Gog.


Originally posted by abhilegend
Ok but having power ring didn't increase his strength IIRC. Seems like I remember BL Alex Luthor momentarily matching SBP/tanking his blows. Doesn't matter either way, though.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Ah, I can see your POV regarding this topic, but characters vary with writers. It depends on how you view it. I don't consider it PIS./srug I do. Let's say Gog=10, and Power Girl=5. CS tanked 10 without so much as moving, but was knocked across a field by 5.

Even though PG's punch didn't harm him, it still qualifies as PIS. There's no other way to explain it, imo.

Originally posted by Sirius77
Has anyone actually ever even done damage to CS? As I recall, even Prime failed to do anything but knock him back when he attempted to stab him with psuedo-aquaman's sword (it broke on CS's face) in SC. Not to my knowledge.

Originally posted by Sirius77
Has anyone actually ever even done damage to CS? As I recall, even Prime failed to do anything but knock him back when he attempted to stab him with psuedo-aquaman's sword (it broke on CS's face) in SC.

I don't recall this, what issue was it in?

^ Tales of the Sinestro Corps: Superman Prime:
http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/10850678_pic012.jpg

Well, when SBP did that Steel had his armor on. He had to take it off to take on Gog. I suppose whether or not he's wearing it could make a difference in this vs.

it does as without the armor on he is stronger, it restricts his strength to be more manageable

Yeah, his armor is like 280,000lbs psi because his strength is so great and uncontrollable he can't take a step without destroying the ground without it. Or hitting a person and killing them.

Originally posted by Galan007
Yes, correct. But mainstream Superman, much like KC Supes, had help in his battle with Gog--yet he was still stomped on a ridiculous level (he needed to be defibrillated to be brought back to life, iirc.) At least KC Supes was clinically ALIVE after his scuffle with Gog.
Yes, after gog injected him with a heavy dose of yellow kryptonite which started to destruct his cellular structure. Even when he was having a heart-attack and got light-headed reaching mach speed, he was taking multiple gogs at once. When the future gog cured him, kal reset gog's face with a single punch.




Adventure comics 4 & 5, I had to re-read to make sure.



Good thing is that writers rarely writes taking battle boards in mind.



You are judging every showing of nate by that single showing. Its quite good but lets not get carried away.


Yeah, I never saw him getting hurt.

Originally posted by Galan007
^ Tales of the Sinestro Corps: Superman Prime:
http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/10850678_pic012.jpg
Hawkman survived a mace to the face by prime. He is teh uberzz!!131

Originally posted by Cogito
Well, when SBP did that Steel had his armor on. He had to take it off to take on Gog. I suppose whether or not he's wearing it could make a difference in this vs. He is far stronger w/o the armor. As was mentioned above, CS has to exert a force of 280,000psi any time he makes a movement--no matter how small.

Originally posted by abhilegend
When the future gog cured him, kal reset gog's face with a single punch. Lord please tell me you aren't saying Superman>Gog.

Originally posted by abhilegend
You are judging every showing of nate by that single showing. Its quite good but lets not get carried away. No, I'm judging him by all of his showings. If you use that line of logic, you'll find that PG should not be able to move him.

Originally posted by -K-M-
it does as without the armor on he is stronger, it restricts his strength to be more manageable

I said it could make a difference because, if trading blows, he'd definitely win without it and would only probably would win with it.

I disagree with galan's stance you can't just dismiss certain showings and disregard them because if you do so everything falls down a slippery slope.

He's not dismissing his showings, though? AFAIK, Galan is accepting that PG budging CS happened. But it's definitely PIS at worse if you compare it to his history of feats (which easily contradict it) and a very low showing at best.

As far as this thread goes, not sure how Superman wins this.

Originally posted by Galan007
He is far stronger w/o the armor. As was mentioned above, CS has to exert a force of 280,000psi any time he makes a movement--no matter how small.

Lord please tell me you aren't saying Superman>Gog.

What, he beat gog fair and square. Are you forgetting this is superman we are talking about?


That's why I called it a low-showing.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
He's not dismissing his showings, though? AFAIK, Galan is accepting that PG budging CS happened. But it's definitely PIS at worse if you compare it to his history of feats (which easily contradict it) and a very low showing at best.

As far as this thread goes, not sure how Superman wins this.
Superman doesn't wins here.

Originally posted by abhilegend
What, he beat gog fair and square. Are you forgetting this is superman we are talking about? g007-psyduck

Originally posted by abhilegend
That's why I called it a low-showing. It is a low showing. A low showing that contradicts Steel's established history. That, imo, is why it's PIS.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
He's not dismissing his showings, though? AFAIK, Galan is accepting that PG budging CS happened. But it's definitely PIS at worse if you compare it to his history of feats (which easily contradict it) and a very low showing at best. At least someone understands me.

I've readily acknowledged that PG DID in fact move CS (anyone trying to say otherwise hasn't been reading my posts and is merely trolling.) All I'm saying is that, considering all of his other showings, PG moving him more than a few millimeters (let alone several feet back like she did) qualifies as high-order PIS. Aside from the writer being an idiot, there's no other 'forum term' it can be given.

Originally posted by Galan007
g007-psyduck

131fist



We hear ya the first time.durfist


Hey, I agreed with you first.313

Originally posted by Cogito
I said it could make a difference because, if trading blows, he'd definitely win without it and would only probably would win with it.

iirc, his stats increase many times without the armor. I'm going to risk saying this because carver made this thread but...it's kind of like Piccolo's weighted training gear in dbz tbh. It restricts his movement and strength until he takes it off. The only difference is that CS uses his so that no one around him gets hurt.

Originally posted by Sirius77
iirc, his stats increase many times without the armor. I'm going to risk saying this because carver made this thread but...it's kind of like Piccolo's weighted training gear in dbz tbh. It restricts his movement and strength until he takes it off. The only difference is that CS uses his so that no one around him gets hurt.

In a nutshell, yeah.

His armor is the stuff they put on spaceships so they can survive re-entry. And I believe it has to be smelted on and has 280,000lbs of pressure per square inch. Otherwise he'd wreck a city just taking a walk down the street or kill someone with a hug.

Haha I can see the next thread...Steel vs WBH....

Originally posted by KingD19
In a nutshell, yeah.

His armor is the stuff they put on spaceships so they can survive re-entry. And I believe it has to be smelted on and has 280,000lbs of pressure per square inch. Otherwise he'd wreck a city just taking a walk down the street or kill someone with a hug.

Yeah I almost forgot about that. It's pretty uber considering he's lifting what, like 140 tons just by moving?

Uhhhh, not sure. 280,000lbs per square inch tensile strength. How many square inches comprise the human body?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
He's not dismissing his showings, though? AFAIK, Galan is accepting that PG budging CS happened. But it's definitely PIS at worse if you compare it to his history of feats (which easily contradict it) and a very low showing at best.

As far as this thread goes, not sure how Superman wins this. No, it's dismissing one and accepting another. We absorb it into his overall history not simply say it's pis.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Haha I can see the next thread...Steel vs WBH....

Been done before.

Originally posted by KingD19
Uhhhh, not sure. 280,000lbs per square inch tensile strength. How many square inches comprise the human body?

Per square inch... damn, I don't know lol. That's pretty insane though haha. I don't want to bring real world physics into this, but suffice it to say "a whole lot" lol.

That's more than 100 tons per square inch. Damn...

Originally posted by Sirius77
Per square inch... damn, I don't know lol. That's pretty insane though haha. I don't want to bring real world physics into this, but suffice it to say "a whole lot" lol.

I'm just going to ballpark it at 1000 square inches.

And think, when he hit Gog, only the upper half of his suit was ripped off. Imagine if he was just in boxers or something, or regular clothes.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
I'm just going to ballpark it at 1000 square inches. Probably at least twice that. I think... yeah.

Considering the fact that he's lifting things heavier than that and trading blows with people like Gog, that really says a lot...

Didn't the Gog he put down, kill the Gog Infinite Man was stalemating?

Originally posted by CosmicComet
I'm just going to ballpark it at 1000 square inches.

Originally posted by Existere
Probably at least twice that. I think... yeah.

Yeah I just looked it up, and the amount of skin that covers the average human body is something like 5000 sq feet... CS suit has 280,000 lbs of pressure resisting his movements per sq inch.... again... damn.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Didn't the Gog he put down, kill the Gog Infinite Man was stalemating?

Well, that version of Gog wasn't able to move him but a couple of inches. That version of Gog also wasn't able to harm him noticeably, even slightly. He didn't defeat him, butCS knocked him back pretty far with a simple upper cut.

Originally posted by Sirius77
Yeah I just looked it up, and the amount of skin that covers the average human body is something like 5000 sq feet... CS suit has 280,000 lbs of pressure resisting his movements per sq inch.... again... damn. Well, that's blatantly false. If you grew up in an average one-family house, you probably had a floor space ~2500 square feet.

A quick (and very rough) google search says that the human body could have 14-18 square feet of surface area. Using that as a ballpark figure, square inches would definitely come out to over 2000.

^ That's pretty spot-on. I just looked it up in my Nancy Caroline Anatomy&Physiology book I got in medic class, and it is says that the average adult male has approximately 17 square feet of integument (skin.)

12 inches in a foot.

17 square feet = 204 inches

280,000lbs psi = 57,120,000lbs

That totals up to 28,560 short tons

And 25,909.196 metric tons.

Originally posted by KingD19
17 square feet = 204 inches

There's 144 square inches in one square foot (not the same as 12 inches to one foot)

This is why I don't do math, lol.

2,448 square inches.

~343,000 tons across the surface of the entire body for pressure.

meh.

when you do the math, it doesn't sound as impressive as it should be.

Originally posted by Existere
Well, that's blatantly false. If you grew up in an average one-family house, you probably had a floor space ~2500 square feet.

A quick (and very rough) google search says that the human body could have 14-18 square feet of surface area. Using that as a ballpark figure, square inches would definitely come out to over 2000.

Yeah, I just looked at the wiki answer again and it said 1500 sq inches. Admittedly, these numbers mean squat to me, as I'm not an architect or mathematically inclined, but I suppose I glanced at the screen wrong and saw the five and a couple of zeros and put it down lol.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/ How_many_square_inches_of_skin_cover_the_human_bod
y

Originally posted by KingD19
Yeah, his armor is like 280,000lbs psi because his strength is so great and uncontrollable he can't take a step without destroying the ground without it. Or hitting a person and killing them. kinda like a green guy i know