Kenshiro Gauntlet

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asdf83
It seems to be the consensus that Kenshiro would absolutely stomp on Wolverine. So how would he do against other hand-to-hand fighters in Marvel?

Kenshiro is fully healed after each fight

1. Luke Cage
2. Spiderman
3. Iron Fist
4. Thing
5. Ares with axe
6. Immortal Hercules
7. Savage Hulk

Feel free to change the order.

Wei Phoenix
Should clear it with minimum to no difficulty to be honest. That is if over 100 Class 100+ punches per second to the face will KO savage Hulk

EDIT: To be more specific he KOs 1-4, possibly kills Ares if not KOs him depending on what is in Ares' heart. KOs 6-7

Newjak
I have a hard time believing he is going to KO Immortal Herc.

I should specify I don't know much about Kenshiro, but Herc isn't weak, and he's definitely tough.

So what exactly could Kenshiro do to beat Herc?

Wei Phoenix
Originally posted by Newjak
I have a hard time believing he is going to KO Immortal Herc.

I should specify I don't know much about Kenshiro, but Herc isn't weak, and he's definitely tough.

So what exactly could Kenshiro do to beat Herc?

Class 100+ punches, hundreds of them in mere seconds to the face. Manipulate his pressure points. Herc won't touch Ken unless he wants to be touched due to his secret technique Musou Tensei

Musō Tensei (無想転生, Nil-Thought Rebirth)

The ultimate secret technique of Hokuto Shin Ken. It is said that only one who embraces the true nature of sorrow can awaken its power. Kenshirō was the first man in Hokuto Shin Ken's 1800 year history to learn Musō Tensei during the epic struggles against his friends and great rivals. Musō Tensei allows the user to achieve a state of "nothingness", impervious to physical attacks, and commune with the souls of fallen rivals (Toki, Ryūga, the Nanto Roku Seiken and later Raoh).

At the end of the series he is seen lifting rocks that were estimated to be over 2000 tons without even utilizing his full power and strength. I'm not sure how much it weighs but I can post the person's math and example and everything and let you decide how big you think it is.

He's a martial artist with a lot of different skills and moves that can give him a win. CIS will prevent him from even trying to kill Herc since he isn't evil, but I'm sure he has the tools to take him down with his strength, speed and skill.

Newjak
Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Class 100+ punches, hundreds of them in mere seconds to the face. Manipulate his pressure points. Herc won't touch Ken unless he wants to be touched due to his secret technique Musou Tensei

Musō Tensei (無想転生, Nil-Thought Rebirth)

The ultimate secret technique of Hokuto Shin Ken. It is said that only one who embraces the true nature of sorrow can awaken its power. Kenshirō was the first man in Hokuto Shin Ken's 1800 year history to learn Musō Tensei during the epic struggles against his friends and great rivals. Musō Tensei allows the user to achieve a state of "nothingness", impervious to physical attacks, and commune with the souls of fallen rivals (Toki, Ryūga, the Nanto Roku Seiken and later Raoh).

At the end of the series he is seen lifting rocks that were estimated to be over 2000 tons without even utilizing his full power and strength. I'm not sure how much it weighs but I can post the person's math and example and everything and let you decide how big you think it is.

He's a martial artist with a lot of different skills and moves that can give him a win. CIS will prevent him from even trying to kill Herc since he isn't evil, but I'm sure he has the tools to take him down with his strength, speed and skill. Pressure points maybe,

I saw the video of what he did to the tank, but Herc could do what he did with one pinky.

Like 2000 tons are nothing compared to Herc. I mean it's just hard to believe that even millions of those punches are gonna put Herc down considering his level of strength.

Cogito
Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Should clear it with minimum to no difficulty to be honest. That is if over 100 Class 100+ punches per second to the face will KO savage Hulk

EDIT: To be more specific he KOs 1-4, possibly kills Ares if not KOs him depending on what is in Ares' heart. KOs 6-7

So anyone who can deliver 100 class 100 punches a second auto wins?

K.

Hey guys, from now on the following auto win:
Superman
Flash
Zoom
Supergirl
Powergirl
Martian Manhunter
WW
etc etc.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Cogito
So anyone who can deliver 100 class 100 punches a second auto wins?

K.

Hey guys, from now on the following auto win:
Superman
Flash
Zoom
Supergirl
Powergirl
Martian Manhunter
WW
etc etc.

Surely it depends on the opponent? If any of the above deal 100 class 100 punches a second to Spiderman (and don't use any other powers)....yeah, its an auto win. Same with Luke Cage etc...

Against Zeus? Prob not.

Cogito
Apparently it works at least up to Savage Hulk level with "no difficulty"

carver9
Originally posted by Cogito
So anyone who can deliver 100 class 100 punches a second auto wins?

K.

Hey guys, from now on the following auto win:
Superman
Flash
Zoom
Supergirl
Powergirl
Martian Manhunter
WW
etc etc.

Some of these people never punched that fast or done half of the things Ken has done with his speed.


As for the thread, Ken clears this.

Wei Phoenix
Originally posted by Cogito
So anyone who can deliver 100 class 100 punches a second auto wins?

K.

Hey guys, from now on the following auto win:
Superman
Flash
Zoom
Supergirl
Powergirl
Martian Manhunter
WW
etc etc.

Well I don't recall saying that, but the people he's fighting against would lose to such a tactic. Savage Hulk wouldn't be able to regenerate fast enough to handle the damage.

Originally posted by Cogito
Apparently it works at least up to Savage Hulk level with "no difficulty"

Ken could literally take on 1-4 and probably even 5 all at once and still win with ease and no difficulty.

Originally posted by Newjak
Pressure points maybe,

I saw the video of what he did to the tank, but Herc could do what he did with one pinky.

Like 2000 tons are nothing compared to Herc. I mean it's just hard to believe that even millions of those punches are gonna put Herc down considering his level of strength.

Of course, I wouldn't even try to use the tank feat to put him above Hercules, and I believe that Herc is stronger. IIRC he pulled Manhattan once? In my honest opinion what gives Ken the victory over him is his style Hokuto ShinKen. So many techniques, high level durability and taking class 100 punches on the regular from his brothers.

Suieishin allows him to copy his opponent's movements and learn their style just y watching. He has been seen using Nanto Seiken, the southern star arts after just watching people during his fights with them. After one move he will be able to read all of Herc's moves and I'm not a Herc expert but has he ever fought anyone that can become immune to physical damage? I will look for the videos that displays all of his feats.

Naija boy
Stops at a fairly angry Savage hulk.

cdtm
Originally posted by Cogito
So anyone who can deliver 100 class 100 punches a second auto wins?

K.

thumbup1

cdtm
Clears it.

I'd pay good money for a FOTNS/Hulk crossover.

Newjak
Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Well I don't recall saying that, but the people he's fighting against would lose to such a tactic. Savage Hulk wouldn't be able to regenerate fast enough to handle the damage.



Ken could literally take on 1-4 and probably even 5 all at once and still win with ease and no difficulty.



Of course, I wouldn't even try to use the tank feat to put him above Hercules, and I believe that Herc is stronger. IIRC he pulled Manhattan once? In my honest opinion what gives Ken the victory over him is his style Hokuto ShinKen. So many techniques, high level durability and taking class 100 punches on the regular from his brothers.

Suieishin allows him to copy his opponent's movements and learn their style just y watching. He has been seen using Nanto Seiken, the southern star arts after just watching people during his fights with them. After one move he will be able to read all of Herc's moves and I'm not a Herc expert but has he ever fought anyone that can become immune to physical damage? I will look for the videos that displays all of his feats. Hercs done more than considering he held up the entire world before because his labors are canon stick out tongue

I just want to know what keeps Herc from simply picking up an island sized chunk and throwing it into space with Ken on it?

cdtm
Adding to what Wei said, Kenshiro can copy opponents techniques, so theoretically he can use Falco's technique, Gento, that lets him use his ki to destroy matter at a molecular level.

He never actually used that tech in the manga though, which is surprising because it's a pretty powerful tech.

StyleTime
http://i43.tinypic.com/66yck7.jpg

Rage.Of.Olympus
Hulk would laugh in his face.

psycho gundam
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Hulk would laugh in his face. literally

there will be bits of ken's face all over hulk's fist and chest, just add laughter

cdtm
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Hulk would laugh in his face.

Hulk's low piercing damage makes him the worse kind of match up for a guy that can make you explode by pressure point manipulation.

Not to mention Ken's a lot faster than Hulk, so his only option is to hope Ken won't blow up his arms before he can spam thunderclaps..

Wei Phoenix
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Hulk would laugh in his face.

He's going to laugh at someone who can at LEAST match base hulk when not even using all of his body's potential? Once again he's not being touched with Musou Tensei.

Originally posted by Newjak
Hercs done more than considering he held up the entire world before because his labors are canon stick out tongue

I just want to know what keeps Herc from simply picking up an island sized chunk and throwing it into space with Ken on it?

I never thought of that, he's never MT'd the average distance of an island and I've never seen him do it through solid objects, just attacks so in my honest opinion it could work and a way for Herc to win. If Herc is susceptible to pressure point attacks then Ken could just make him walk off backwards and commit self-bfr. Being a good guy and all would prevent Ken from using any destructive moves on Herc and the other good guys.

psycho gundam
so hercules gets a pass and hulk doesn't?

Naija boy
I would like to here more about this issue of kenshiro matching this mysterious base hulk in strength i presume

asdf83
I also think that he clears the first five with ease, but what I thought would make the last two interesting is whether pressure point attacks would even work against Herc and Hulk. Neither are really human. And how well can Kenshiro take thunderclaps?

psycho gundam
I remember when some people substituted pressure points for joint exploits cause cap used it effectively to get professor hulk off balance once (then almost got himself murdered) cause it worked

just, lol

Mindset
Gets slaughtered at Iron Fist.

cdtm
Originally posted by Mindset
Gets slaughtered at Iron Fist.

Ken teaching Danny Hokuto Shinken would be as big an upgrade for him as Spidey learning Kung Fu. big grin

That's one thing writers don't do well with martial artists, is the pressure point stuff.. I think only Mantis really gets to cripple guys like Thor with it, while most other MAers, including Iron Fist, just try and bludgeon their opponents to death.

Hyperion Prime
Kenshiro clears it. He blows up the Hulk, but dosen't kill him. He puts the Hulk down long enough for the win.

animale
Ken doesn't even need to touch someone to hurt him,he should be able to take down Hercules and Hulk.

cdtm
Originally posted by animale
Ken doesn't even need to touch someone to hurt him,he should be able to take down Hercules and Hulk.

True. Some weird telekinetic/ki thing.

Even weaker characters can make hand shaped holes all the way through trees as thick as a red oak using nothing but their ki.

Sr J-Bieb
After Fist beats him, he trains him in the ways of the fist for many moons, and right before Kenshiro is ready to graduate from the school of Iron and Fist, Randiel kills him with one punch

carver9
Place Ken in Marvel or DC and he would bring a hole new light to any of those universes. Ken is a monster.

Mindset
Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
After Fist beats him, he trains him in the ways of the fist for many moons, and right before Kenshiro is ready to graduate from the school of Iron and Fist, Randiel kills him with one punch Pretty much how I see it.

TheTyrant
Clears it without much difficulty.

Glorificus
Kenshiro is LEAGUES and LEAGUES faster than anyone on this list. Plus some of his esoteric stuff with ki and pressure points, and he should clear this gauntlet.

He's like the Japanese version of PC Karate Kid.

asdf83
After looking at some FotNS manga again, I realize that I completely forgot how ridiculously powerful Kenshiro gets by about halfway through the series.

So adding:

8. WW Hulk
9. Flash
10. Superman (no flight or heat vision)

RealityWarper
Originally posted by random letters
After looking at some FotNS manga again, I realize that I completely forgot how ridiculously powerful Kenshiro gets by about halfway through the series.

So adding:

8. WW Hulk
9. Flash
10. Superman (no flight or heat vision)

Kenshiro can take everyone in this gauntlet at the same time from 1 to 10 and still win with ease.

Sharivan
Originally posted by Mindset
Gets slaughtered at Iron Fist.

Agreed.

Here is my reasoning:

Daniel Rand is faster than lightning. In terms of short range speed at any rate.

He is able to limbo dodge, and do three back-flips in the time-frame of a microsecond. Do keep mind moving only a foot within a microsecond is eight hundred times the speed of sound.

Iron Fist v3

http://i.imgur.com/eMWxQBQ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/3kt7mbo.jpg

In this same issue the narrator shows that he is aware the significance of what was stated earlier. He even outright says Danny has faster than lightning reactions.

https://i.imgur.com/uC5lpN6.jpg

Other instances that confirm this are when Danny dodges Eel's electricity. As well as when he dodges Fat Cobra's lightning.

Power Man & Iron Fist #92

https://i.imgur.com/jqqLe6D.jpg

The Immortal Iron Fist #9

http://imgur.com/a/cIoq3

As for other speed feats there are instances of him blocking dozens of flechettes.

Power Man & Iron Fist # 50

https://i.imgur.com/apaLQqQ.jpg

Then he catches a bullet here after Brenda tries to kill herself. Do keep in mind since the gun was right next to her head? That means the timeframe he had to cross the distance had to be incredibly tiny.

Iron Fist: The Living Weapon #12

http://imgur.com/a/Fup9N

As for the strength of his punches he has taken down helicarriers.

New Avengers #59

http://imgur.com/a/BHP0F

As well as having destroyed Zhu-Rong the God of Fire in a single punch. After he got his chi back from the One. Zhu-Rong was powerful enough that his energy covered part of the planet, and could be seen from outer space.

Iron Fist: The Living Weapon #11

https://i.imgur.com/5ckAEMV.jpg

Danny's Iron Fist has been compared to a hydrogen bomb in the past. This before Orson Randall or the Book of the Iron Fist.

Deadly Hands of Kung Fu #20

http://imgur.com/a/76zEa

On top of being being able to break out of the Crimson Bands of Cyttorak, and punch so hard that he destroys the fabric of reality. It's also compared to a baby nuke.

Iron Fist v1 #7

http://i.imgur.com/tkmxECq.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/E2joHYB.jpg

In terms of durability when Danny punched a train filled with enough explosives to make Hiroshima look like a sparkler, and wipe Kun-Lun off the map? He got out of it with nary a scratch.

The Immortal Iron Fist #14

http://imgur.com/a/Cu8iX

He is able to absorb both conventional and non-conventional energies. As seen when he absorbed Radion's radiation, and Master Khan's spells.

Iron Fist v1 #3 & 4

http://imgur.com/a/xOwBu

Iron Fist v1 #7

https://i.imgur.com/eysBmP2.jpg

His chi was able to mesmerize the Hulk, and transform him back into Bruce Banner. That before he learned the hypnotic fist style from Orson Randall. The best part is that Danny did it without even trying. Just so people know the Hulk has explicit resistance to mind control and hypnosis.

Marvel Team-Up #105

http://i.imgur.com/LaGd0Y8.jpg

Danny's chi is able to work on spirits and demons.

Shadowland #5

http://imgur.com/a/OlcN2

He can use his chi on his own spirit in order to come back from the afterlife as a ghost, and beat on someone after death.

Deadly Hands of Kung Fu #24

https://imgur.com/a/dSHAM

RealityWarper
Originally posted by Sharivan


It's an awful reasoning that shows a lack of reading skills but nice try.

Sharivan
Originally posted by RealityWarper
It's an awful reasoning that shows a lack of reading skills but nice try.

That's interesting care to elaborate what I got wrong? As far I can recall everything seems to be pretty clear there.

Sharivan
Originally posted by Sharivan
Iron Fist v3

http://i.imgur.com/eMWxQBQ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/3kt7mbo.jpg

In this same issue the narrator shows that he is aware the significance of what was stated earlier. He even outright says Danny has faster than lightning reactions.

https://i.imgur.com/uC5lpN6.jpg

Other instances that confirm this are when Danny dodges Eel's electricity. As well as when he dodges Fat Cobra's lightning.



Just in case anyone was curious this was #1 of v3

Surtur
Originally posted by carver9
Some of these people never punched that fast or done half of the things Ken has done with his speed.

Wait who on that list couldn't throw 100 punches in a second? No reason Flash or Zoom couldn't. No reason Superman couldn't. Hell no reason even WW couldn't, she's a decent fraction of lightspeed.

Sharivan
Originally posted by Surtur
Wait who on that list couldn't throw 100 punches in a second? No reason Flash or Zoom couldn't. No reason Superman couldn't. Hell no reason even WW couldn't, she's a decent fraction of lightspeed.

He was probably referring to the likes of Luke Cage.

I don't remember much in the way of speed for him except some bullet timing.

Also, Kenshiro has a lot more than a hundred hits per second. He goes past that, and hits thousands of hits per second. Then weaker characters in part two of the series are able to punch ten-thousand times per second. You would probably get something hypersonic out of that.

RealityWarper
Originally posted by Sharivan
Agreed.

Here is my reasoning:

Daniel Rand is faster than lightning. In terms of short range speed at any rate.

He is able to limbo dodge, and do three back-flips in the time-frame of a microsecond. Do keep mind moving only a foot within a microsecond is eight hundred times the speed of sound.

Iron Fist v3

http://i.imgur.com/eMWxQBQ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/3kt7mbo.jpg


That's a gross misinterpretation of what is happening on panel.

Danny has several seconds to spot his attacker while on the phone.

He spotted the shooter literally during 3 panels before being shot and "the microsecond he needs to react" is nothing but some hyperbolic statement to show that Danny has fast reflexes.

The duration of the second isn't during one microsecond neither, or according to your logic , the bullets just need a microsecond to travel a few meters, or the people just needs the same duration to goes down on the floor...

Not, that's not the case.

Danny doesn't move at thousands of times the speed of sound like you are falsely and ludicrously trying to make us believe...

Danny has better reflexes than an untrained human being but he is far to be in the superhuman range when it comes to the speed...

You are making-up things like he is Quicksilver.

That gave me giggles.

Danny just aim-dodged the first time and used acrobatics to be hard to tag in the second page...



That's another hyperbolic statement...

If Danny was so fast he could have grabbed the knife or simply moved out of the way.

Maybe you will try to make us believe that the knife is faster than lightning then ?

Please try. smile




*sigh*

Danny is simply aim-dodging in both case, anticipating the path of the attacks and moving out of the way...

And the second time he is touched by the area of effect...




He slapped several flechettes...

Not only that's just aim-blocking but that's completely irrelevant to a combat situation against Kenshiro...




He has several seconds to act...

Any street-leveler in the Marvel Universe can do the same but that's a good durability feat for his hand.




He craked the hull and that probably damaged the navigation system so the hellcarrier crashed...

This isn't bad but considering that the punches of young Raoh destroys buildings 300 meters away without trying and that Raoh was far more powerful during HNK... And Kenshiro was able to tank his attacks and keep fighting.




There is no durability feats of Zu Rhong besides being kicked by a giant building... The things that breaks on Kenshiro's chin at the very beginning of the anime...
The kind of stuff that a young Raoh destroys from 300 meters away with a casual punch through a guy...



That's not the Iron Fist which is compared to an H-bomb but this hyperbolic statement is here to show the devastation that Danny is feeling when he is looking at the results of all his fights in this place...

What now ?

You will pretend that Danny can erase a city with a punch ?





You totally skipped the part where Master Khan told to Danny that he will offer Yu-Ti so he can have his vengeance... Thus removing the Bands of Cyttorak when Danny accepted his request...

For the other part, Danny smashed the Dimensionnal Portal which created a rift in reality...
That's not Danny's punches which created a rift in reality, that's the destruction of the portal.

You are literally twisting the feats in every ways to give them more weight than they have.

Worse, you are completely misunderstanding the context.




That's clearly an hyperbolic statement for several reasons:

1) The radius of the explosion is very small and nothing is shown to be destroyed besides the train.

2) People a few hundred meters from the explosion are completely unharmed.

3) Nothing indicates that Danny was caught in the explosion... In fact as the electromagnetic energies propelled Danny through the hull of the train like a bullet, it's more than obvious that Danny have been trough the train and avoided to be caught in the explosion.

4) This only shows that the Iron Fist is more durable than the hull of the train.





Out-of-context again...

Everyone absorbs radiations... That's why people working on Chernobyl became radioactive and died of it...

Danny is an athlete and become a peak human when he is channeling his Chi, making him as durable as Captain America when it comes to shrugg off damages...

The Chi probably shielded him in a certain way against Master Khan's spells but...

That's totally irrelevant to a combat situation against Kenshiro.





Hulk's intelligence is very low and the "shiny hands" calmed him down...

In "Indestructible Hulk", the SHIELD shows him picture of puppies in order to calm him down so...

What's the relevancy of this ?

There is none.



Another feat that you are using completely out-of-context...

Danny used his Chi to heal Daredevil and not to attack the Demon at all...

The point is that by healing Daredevil, he allowed him to recover some force of will and fight the possession.

That's completely irrelevant to a combat situation.




Here is another stuff that you are completely missing the point.

Dasha Khan changed Danny's physical form into a Ghost form thanks to the Soul Gem so Danny wasn't killed in the first place.

Danny precised that he used his Chi to break the gap between the Dimension so it's very possible that he was put in the Astral Plane forced to remain in an Astral Form...

Nothing in what you said put Danny even close to the superhuman basic stats of Kenshiro not making use of his powers.



http://phantombunburyist.freedomforceforever.com/cripp12/24/th_ironfistback.jpg


Kenshiro would crush Iron Fist without trying on a single touch.

h1a8
King Rao casually busted a giant coated with solid steel without touching him. This was less than 1/100th of his strength. Yet Kenshiro endured and matched his full might.

On average a 2000 ton punch is going to damage Herc and Savage Hulk. Otherwise beings like Thing or Colossus shouldn't make then flinch (since their strength is far under 2000 tons).

RealityWarper
Originally posted by Sharivan
He was probably referring to the likes of Luke Cage.

I don't remember much in the way of speed for him except some bullet timing.

Also, Kenshiro has a lot more than a hundred hits per second. He goes past that, and hits thousands of hits per second. Then weaker characters in part two of the series are able to punch ten-thousand times per second. You would probably get something hypersonic out of that.

Hyoh is one of the strongest character in the series...

He used a technique called "Manju Maon Ken" and Kenshiro can use it too.

For the rest you are literally making things up...

But it is clear that Kenshiro is completely in another level than Iron Fist.

Originally posted by h1a8
King Rao casually busted a giant coated with solid steel without touching him. This was less than 1/100th of his strength. Yet Kenshiro endured and matched his full might.

On average a 2000 ton punch is going to damage Herc and Savage Hulk. Otherwise beings like Thing or Colossus shouldn't make then flinch (since their strength is far under 2000 tons).

He killed him with a Goshoha.

For the other part I don't get where you got this idea...

Sharivan
Originally posted by RealityWarper
-snip-

Microsecond is not hyperbolic. It is a time-frame that actually exists, and the narration is specific that he did all of this during this time-frame.

Danny did not aim-dodge anything. What happened was that he sensed danger, and then he reacted afterwards within a microsecond. Which the narration specifies in its very next words. That's where you get this speed. The time-frame, and the distance.



We do not see anyone else moving during this time-frame. It doesn't matter how fast the bullets are moving. What matters is how fast Danny is moving.

Which is thousands of times the speed of sound here.



Yes, that is in fact the case.



He does as I have proven several times.



Danny is explicitly superhuman when it comes to speed.



At this point Quicksliver can outrun radio waves which means that he is FTL. Daniel Rand isn't that fast.



What gave me giggles is how you tried to set up the Sentry as stronger than Molecule Man. When the latter was far weaker than normal, and the only evidence you had was outside of the story itself. Which contradicted everything in it.



Which all happened specifically in the time-frame of a microsecond. Which would make this ridiculously fast.



Yeah, sure. Why not? If this knife was thrown fast enough that it nearly pierced Danny's heart. In the same issue where Danny limbo dodges and does three back-flips in a microsecond?

That gives the guy threw that knife a great showing as well. It's not like this is strange either. We have people like Black Panther moving within microseconds too.



How about you prove that? As it's never stated that he did it those times by aim-dodging.



The point is that Danny dodges the actual bolt of lightning itself.



That's not aim-blocking either. How in the world can Danny aim-block several different flechettes at once? He even explicitly creates after-images when he does this.

The only way this works is if you try to argue that Danny has precognition, and knew specifically where they all would have went. Which he doesn't have.



No, Danny didn't. You see the gun go off, then Danny's surprised look, and then he reacts. That is the specific order in which the panels happen.

He crossed several feet before that bullets could even move a few inches, and caught it before it could hit Brenda.



You're literally making up numbers with no references for them, and if you seriously think a building is harder to break than a freaking helicarrier you're a lost cause.

Also, not only that you're using speculation that is not proven by anything when you say it fell because the navigation system was destroyed. That's another thing you are making up.



That would be the animated film you're thinking of, and the point of that was Danny was able to destroy something made out of fire. More importantly that he could overpower Zhu-Rong.



That's not impressive at all by Danny's standards.

Danny was hitting harder than nukes back before he got Orson Randall's chi and the Book of the Iron Fist.



Uh no? Danny specifically uses his Iron Fist in the very first scan there, and everything after that shows the devastation that it caused.



I don't need to pretend. I already showed you evidence that proves that he is in fact this powerful.



You're missing the part where Danny never accepted this offer or that Master Khan never broke the spell. Danny explicitly uses chi when he breaks out of them, and we see his hands glowing.



Danny never accepted this request. He was so angry that his uncle had a part in his parents death that he broke out of the Crimson Bands of Cyttorak, and destroyed the dimensional portal. Which caused a rift in the fabric of reality.



Which requires Danny being actually capable of destroying the fabric of reality. As there is no other way for him to destroy a portal between several different points in space otherwise.

The fabric in reality was ripped apart specifically because it was Danny who punched that dimensional portal and disrupted it, and anything else would have simply went through it.



Nope, that would be you. You're the one undermining them by making up nonsense that doesn't actually happen in the stories themselves.



Nope, this is you once again. As see when you tried to say Danny accepted his offer when he specifically didn't.



This is because both Danny and the train are in the sky when this happen, and Danny launched himself towards it by manipulating electromagnetic energy.

There is nothing close enough to them to be destroyed to begin with.



Prove that these people are only a few hundred meters away. As both Danny and the train are in the sky when this happens.



What kind of mental gymnastics is this?

Prove this because what we see shows that the moment Danny punches the train it explodes. There is nothing suggesting that Danny went through it before it exploded. This is another thing you're making up.

Seriously, it's not noted by the narration or seen in the scans.

There is nothing implying your interpretation is correct.



Nope, as I already noted you're using speculation supported by nothing.

Danny does not go through the train before it explodes.



No, it is not. In fact the only part I left out was where it was noted that Radion was a nuke waiting to happen.

https://i.imgur.com/P11YBd7.jpg



That's my point? Danny absorbs far more radiation than they did, and he was fine afterwards.

Also, it's not the same. As noted in the very same instance where he absorbs Master Khan's spells, and Radion is brought up again by the context as comparison for what was happening then.



Only if you ignore everything that Danny has done, and rely entirely on databooks which are notoriously wrong. Also, it's against the rules to even use them here. So, there's that too.



More speculation that contradicts what is actually stated to happen in that very scan. He absorbs it just as he did Radion's attacks.



No, it isn't. Kenshiro relies on touki. Which is a mystical life energy. Which Danny can absorb pretty easily if need be.



Danny's chi was specifically making the Hulk feel unusual for no reason, and he transformed back. This before Danny learned the hypnotic fist style.

Kenshiro has only one showing against hypnosis, and it's of the normal variety not the "powered by mystical chi" variety.



The damage in question wasn't physical. Danny healed Matt's soul, and gave him the strength he needed to fight against a demon powerful enough to defeat Ghost Rider.



The point I was making was that Danny could heal Matt's soul, and give it the strength it needed to fight back against a powerful demon.



No, it isn't.

It shows that Danny's chi can work against intangibles. Which means Musou Tensei is not saving Kenshiro here.



It's basically the same thing? He was turned into a ghost, and he came back from the afterlife. Which means he can do the same thing if he actually dies unless you get rid of his spirit.

How is that hard to comprehend?

Besides that, it shows that he can transform back from it. Which means he can probably bring himself to life too.

That on top of the fact Danny can probably give Kenshiro a physical form with his chi if the latter uses Musou Tensei.



When it was the soul gem that was being used? Are you serious? It's obviously his spirit in the case, and he is referring to this as the afterlife. It's not referred to as the astral plane at any point.

It's noted that he gave his spirit substance with his chi too. As he is kicking ass? You should read the rest of the scans.



No, it's actually the opposite. Kenshiro is outclassed here.



So now you're using databooks?

Okay then, it's your funeral.

Translated from the 1986 magazine Hokuto no Ken Special: All About the Man.

Leg Speed = Can move 100m in 9 seconds in steps

Fist Speed = Throws 50 punches in three seconds while performing the Hundred Crack Fist

How about that? A databook portraying a character as far weaker than they actually are. Who would have thought.

RealityWarper
Originally posted by Sharivan
Microsecond is not hyperbolic. It is a time-frame that actually exists, and the narration is specific that he did all of this during this time-frame.


That's not "all that he did" during that time frame...

The writers want to indicates that he perceveid an attack coming and had the reflex to aim-dodge very fast.

He didn't do all of those actions during one microsecond... My God you really should ask someone with actual reading skills to read it for you.

By your logic the soldier does the two shots in this timeframe too so the bullets travel easily 10 meters twice in a microseconds...

That would make the bullets of the AK-47 traveling at:

(10 / 0.000001) * 2 = 20 000 000 m/s = 72000000 km/h

That would make the bullets moving at 72 000 000 km/h so what is your explanation this time ?

The shooter was using a magical AK-47 or it's your reasoning which is completely silly ?

Did the shooter shoot two times at Danny in the span of a microsecond too, according to your logic ?

Did the two people crouching in the second panel crounched in a microsecond too so everybody has superspeed in the Marvel Universe ?

Do you see now your lack of logic and your double standard ????

So there is only one logical explanation:

Danny spotted the shooter and aim-dodged the bullets the first time and used his acrobatics the second to be harder to tag.

The "microsecond" he needed to react is just some colorful way to say that he reacted fast and not to be taken literally.







Stop making up things.
We clearly see the image of the shooter several seconds before he attemps to shoot down Danny in his retina.

http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2016/33/1471244386-1.jpg



Two people crounched during the two burst of the machine-gun fire which ACCORDING TO YOU happened in the span of a microsecond, so ACCORDING TO YOU they crounched during the timespan of the half of a microsecond...

http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2016/33/1471247383-2.jpg

So does the shooter and those people have superspeed too ?

No, they haven't.

The only logical explanation is that it's a classical shooting scene and Danny aim-dodged the first time and used acrobatics to be harder to shoot in the second panel which both happened at normal speed.

You are literally twisting irrelevant feats to make Danny appear better than he is.

That's ludicrous.



Which is Sharivan not understanding what he is reading.

Nothing is what you claimed to be.




At this point you are literally skipping my comments so we can't see the silliness of your claims.

That's fine because I just proved that you have zero reading skills and that your claims are asinine.

You don't even have the correction to face my claims in your own answers...



*sigh*

Danny doesn't move at thousand of times the speed of sound.



Which is the case, confirmed by the creator of the character and confirmed by Bendis whom wrote the story.



Wrong.

I showed that Molecule Man had no negative beliefs on his abilities during that story which means that he was at full power.

Tom Brevoort, whom edited the story, confirmed that Molecule Man was at his regular power-level which means not weakened or depowered.

Nice try bub, come back when you have something substantial instead of fan-made conclusion about everything.




Which would make EVERYTHING ridiculously fast, which didn't happened in the time-frame of a microsecond so it doesn't matter at all.



Oh my god...

Everything you are trying to bring to the table is completely asinine and made-up...

Fact is:

Danny is too slow to grab or avoid a knife throwed from a few meters of him.



No.
Your interpretation of the story is just complete bullshit because you don't understand what you are reading.




It's shown on panel that he is aim-dodging.

He saw the shooter coming at him.



Aim-dodging.
Danny got rekt by the AOE.



*sigh*

All flechettes follow the same pattern...

Danny just have to put his hands in the path.

That's clearly an aim-blocking feat.



No.
That's aim-blocking.



When you are actually "trying" to respond to my claim please have AT LEAST the correction to post the quotes you are responding too.

Not only your obvious illiteracy burns my eyes but as a bonus you make the topic extremely not convenient to answer to.

I keep my claims the way they are and you should take reading lessons, at this point it became an emergency.



Danny didn't break the Hellcarrier, he damaged the hull which caused navigation problems with lead the hellcarrier to sunk.

Anyway he isn't even close to hit as hard as Kenshiro or Raoh.



The Hellcarrier had MINOR damages.

It's clearly shown on panel that he is sinking even he isn't that damaged so the only explanation is that his electronics are damaged so he can't fly anymore.



I didn't see the film so no...

And Zhu-Rong is a building-sized giant engulfed in flames.

When he is dead you can see his giant cadaver on the ground and Danny coming out from his inside but I guess that you didn't read the story and took your "feats" from a respect thread which explains why you don't understand anything of all the bullshit you are making-up.






Do you mean that "-snip-" isn't impressive at all by Danny's standards ?

I would like to see the quotes you are responding to because skiping them is a so convenient way to make your claims impossible to answer to...

Oh wait... You don't even understand the context of your own asinine claims so why bothering and make an actual answer, right ?

RealityWarper
2/3



Do you mean that "-snip-" isn't impressive at all by Danny's standards ?

I would like to see the quotes you are responding to because skiping them is a so convenient way to make your claims impossible to answer to...

Oh wait... You don't even understand the context of your own asinine claims so why bothering and make an actual answer, right ?



No.
Danny don't have the capacity to make more damages than a nuke with his punches.
Take off your fanboy glasses for one second.
That's how silly your claims have become now.



Hyperbolic statement and that's not what you said.




I would like to read the actual quote you are responding at instead of "-snip-".



*sigh*

Master Khan restrained Danny until he accepted the deal to go against Yu-Ti instead of him...

http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2016/33/1471249400-3.jpg


There you have the proper context.

Master Khan had no need to restrain Danny anymore because Danny directly goes against Yu-Ti after that.



I just proved the opposite.

MK and Danny came to an agreement thus making the Crimson Bands useless to maintain for MK.



I'm glad that we agree that Danny destroyed a portal.
It's good that you concede that's the destruction of the portal which created a rift in reality and not Danny's punches.



Wrong.
Which requires Danny being able to destroy the Dimensionnal Gate.



More made-up crap please.



A bomb could have destroyed the portal and obtain the same effect.

Danny isn't responsible of the rift in reality.

*sigh*

At that point I'm just begging you to take reading lessons.



Yeah sure.

We saw that all along with "derp derp Danny moves thousands of times the speed of sound and derp derp Danny's punches can destroy the fabric of reality" regardless to the context.






I'm not responding to that again.



*sigh*

You are making-up complete bullshit once again...

Danny and his teamates were all at the same distance from the train AKA a few hundred meters away.

Danny himself states that it was great to fight alongside them...

Here you can see that they ALL are very close of the train:

http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2016/33/1471250102-4.jpg

So Danny and the train weren't in the sky at all, the explosion of the train isn't even close to be as powerful as Hiroshima and Danny wasn't caught in the explosion because he gone through the train like a bullet...



I easily proved you wrong once again.



Already done.



What kind of dissimulated quote is this ? "-snip-"



At this point I'm just reading the comic books for you.

Why don't you ask another adult to read it for you and give you explanation ?

It tires me at this point...

I mean I'm not even payed to teach you how to read a comics...



-snip-




-snip-

Why bothering giving more answers when:

1) My quotes aren't visible.

2) You are illiterate.

3) I'm wasting my time because even with the full context you don't understand what you are reading and you will spit your trash in every thread.




-snip-

I already explained all of that.




Radion produces radiations which poison living organism.

He never "exploded like a nuke" in the story.




He was so fine...


First fight before he find a way to heal:

http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2016/33/1471250937-5.jpg

Second fight before the end:

http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2016/33/1471250935-6.jpg

In both case he was badly hurt and could have died both times.





He isn't close to die against Master Khan.
He is against Radion.



The Databooks are correct.

That's your interpretations that are incorrect.

It's not against the rules when it support what is actually happening on panel which is the case in here.



I'm factual.

You are the one speculating AKA all of your silly claims since the beginning of that thread.

RealityWarper
3/3


Danny can't absorb Ki-blast.

Proof on panel:

http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2016/33/1471251455-the-immortal-iron-fist-006-011.jpg
http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2016/33/1471251456-the-immortal-iron-fist-006-012.jpg

He lies on the ground after a weak Ki-blast...

The weakest Ki-blast of a young Raoh destroys entire buildings...

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/2/23992/4732664-5011818893-47312.jpg

I would like that you show us how Danny is susceptible to survive to that when one of the weakest of Raoh's punch is actually light years beyond anything that Davos has done...

Oh wait he can't and a Goshoha will erase Danny from existence...




*sigh*

The reason is explained on panel.

The Hulk found the hands of Danny "shiny" and that calmed him down.

At this point, everybody could have used anything that Hulk could have find "shiny" to calm him down.

But hey let's make it like "derp derp Danny Rand uses hybnodigz magigz handz and force Hulgz transformation"... That's complete bullshit.

Same shit here:

http://i.imgur.com/PwpSN8d.png



Thanks Captain Obvious.



There is no correlation between both.
Danny didn't use a technique, he was just lucky that Hulk was calmed down isntead of smashing him to pulp.



He has two showings against it currently...

Moreover Danny never used it in combat...

He used it against a random fatso...

Kenshiro can copy and counter techniques, fight with his eyes closed, etc...

Once more you are trying to sell one of your irrelevancies.




Oh my God... You are reaching...

Daredevil regained some willpower allowing him to fight the possesion again.
End of story.



Yep.
You are trying to hard, really.



-snip-



The stupidity of that claim is beyond belief...

1) Danny hit Daredevil possessed by a Demon so he hit a physical body, the one's of Daredevil.

2) The attack didn't harm the Demon and as Danny understood that he couldn't reach the Demon's soul by attacking with the Iron Fist he decided to try to heal Daredevil instead.

3) Kenshiro's Muso Tensei doesn't "make him intangible like a Ghost"... It makes him "one with nothingness" so no attacks can reach him...
Kenshiro has been through Raoh's Goshoha (Ki-blast) and Raoh's punches amped by his own Ki.
Danny can't touch Kenshiro in Muso Tensei...
Stop twisting everything to favor your favorite character omfg...
The only way any character in this thread to touch Kenshiro using the Muso Tensei would be to be capable to use Muso Tensei themselves which will not happen.

4) Your bullshiting meter is over 9000. I've never seen anyone saying so much crap about Iron Fist or Kenshiro on the internet.
At this point you should really think about taking reading lessons, seriously.

5) Nothing is saving Danny here. The most probable outcome is Kenshiro taking a nap between two of Danny's attacks, casually touching his forehead and making him "asplode".





No.
It's not the same thing.
So when Dr Strange or Charles Xavier uses their Astral Form they are dead ACCORDING TO YOU...




Yeah.
Everything is too hard for you to comprehend.




Yeah complete bullshit once again.
Show me where it is stated that Iron Fist is immortal...
Oh wait he isn't ! big grin



That's complete crap once again.
Read the points 1 to 5 I explained above.

The purpose of the Muso Tensei is to avoid being touch by everything.

Danny will not have a free pass about it.

Rofl.

Kenshiro literally gone through Raoh's Ki-Aura in Muso Tensei...




If you have read the story instead of picking your scans out-of-context from respect threads you should know.



You should learn to read and then read the comics.



Yeah sure.
Kenshiro eat weaklings like Danny for breakfast.



Databooks are official sources of information coming directly from Marvel.





I'm feeling well but thanks.



I own all of HNK's databooks but thanks.


What the travel speed has to do with anything in that thread ?
That's completely irrelevant.



That's his fist speed in the case of one particular technique ?
Is that supposed to prove anything ?

The fun part is that Danny Rand is incapable to do anything on that order...

Kenshiro's attack speed is light years beyond anything Danny has shown and I'm not even showing the fights against Rei, Souther, Alf, Han or Hyoh...



You only show a part of the databook and the information here is about Kenshiro's BASIC PHYSICAL STATS without using techniques to amp himself like the Tenryu Kyokuho...

On the other ALL of the databooks in Marvel shows that Iron Fist summoning his Chi is peak human wihch is far below the scope of what Kenshiro has shown.


Danny's combat speed:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111119363/3647707-sparring+2.jpg

Kenshiro's combat speed:

http://pre15.deviantart.net/cd79/th/pre/i/2015/046/a/3/19c5pg12_by_gokuvssuperman117-d8i60ce.jpg

Kenshiro curbstomps Iron Fist so hard that's not even funny but keep being delusional.

Sharivan
Jesus freaking Christ could you be even more long winded? I am going to six freaking posts or something to reply to all of that keyboard vomit.

In light of that I will just address the obvious first.

In Iron Fist v3 #1 that couple wasn't' moving. They were lying still holding each other. We clearly don't see them do anything else.

In Iron Fist v1 #7 Master Khan never dispelled the Crimson Bands of Cyttorak. After Danny asks Yu-Ti if his accusations are true he breaks out of them. He was still restrained as he was talking to Yu-Ti from the portal, and we clearly see his hands glowing when he breaks out. I already posted the scans.

Radio was going to wipe out London. That was clear in storyline, and he was blowing shit with powers before then. It's not just poisoning people. Once again I already posted the scans for that when he blasts Danny several times.

My snippet from that data entry reveals that Kenshiro is barely more than peak human, and even then not by that much only by a slight margin in the case of punching speed. Yet, you say it doesn't count showcasing a double standard in regards to adherence to databooks.

I will address the rest later.

RealityWarper
Originally posted by Sharivan
Jesus freaking Christ could you be even more long winded? I am going to six freaking posts or something to reply to all of that keyboard vomit.


You just need one sentence to reply to this by apologizing yourself for being so wrong about Iron Fist and Kenshiro.




They were standing at first or maybe you are implying that they are moving themselves while being crounched ?

They had to crounch to avoid the burst of the machine-gun which they did while Danny was doing his limbo or doing his acrobatics.

Your initial claim was that Danny did the limbo AND the acrobatics in the time-span of one microsecond.

Quoting yourself again:



So because according to you everything happened in a microsecond, that means that you believe that:

1) According to you the shooter, shot Iron Fist two times in the time-frame of a microsecond... Which is impossible because the rate of fire of an AK-47 is far slower than that and a human-being can't do something that fast on a moving target.

2) According to you the couple crounched themselves in the time-span of a microsecond for the same reasons.

I mean at that point you are clearly showing double standards and bias along fanboyish theories to make Iron Fist appear far better than he is.

Fortunately nobody with at least average reading skills can't fall into that trap...

Let's look the next page:

http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2016/33/1471273917-7.jpg

Yeah that's totally thousands of time the speed of sound mate...

Marvel is full of speedster...

Oh wait ! This is a normal guy next to Danny and Iron Fist has to run away from the shooter !

Danny doesn't move even close to the speed of sound at all...

Keep your fanboy glasses at home, mate.




Nope.
You interpretated the scans the way you wanted them to appear.

What happened is:
1) Danny shrugged off two offensive spells.
2) Master Khan used the Crimson Band Od Cyttorak which captured Danny, letting him powerless.
3) Master Kahn talked to Danny and explained to him that Yu-Ti is his ennemy too as he was involved in the tragic death of his parents.
4)Danny showed his interest in that story and asked Yu-Ti about it showing his will to akcnowledge to Master Kahn deal.
5) The Crimson Bands being not needed anymore, Master Kahn dispelled them.

Let me show you the difference:

Crimson Bands of Cyttorak intentionally dispelled by the spellcaster:

http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2016/33/1471274399-8.jpg

Crimson Bands of Cyttorak intentionally broken by the target of the spell:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/101566/1915175-1777011___________________2_super.jpg

I mean even the art is crystal clear...




The blasts in the first fight against Radion were directed at the building.

In the second fight he absorbs radiation when he is in hand-to-hand with Radion.

Just keep ignoring more context bro.

It looks good from here.



Yeah sure.


Let's look at a part of Kenshiro's physical stats again:

Grip = Unmeasurable
Arm Strength = Unmeasurable
Walking Ability = Unmeasurable
Strength of His Back = Unmeasurable
Muscle Strength = Can repel the bullet of a small caliber gun when its strained
Leg Speed = Can move 100m in 9 seconds in steps
Fist Speed = Throws 50 punches in three seconds while performing the Hundred Crack Fist
Jump Strength = 9m a step
Punching Strength = Can split a rock that has 5m of thickness
Kick Strength = Can send a 200kg man flying 25m into the air
Diving Time = 53 minutes
Resistance to Poison = Can endure five times the dose of Potassium Cyanide required to kill an ordinary man
Fasting Resistance = Body can remain strong for three months without eating
Sleep Resistance = Can spend an entire week without sleeping



Kenshiro, without amping his physical stats, can jump at 9 m high and destroy a rock of 5 m of thickness without trying... His physical strength is in the same range of the likes of Hulk and Thor as it is incalculable... Hell, we even see him moving a 300 tons rock without breaking a sweat. He can repel 9 mm bullets just by straining his muscles too.

Now to prove your sayings you have to:
A) Post a feat of Danny or any peak human in the MU (like Captain America for example) jumping at 9 m high.

B) Destroying a rock of 5 m of thickness without using the Iron Fist.

C) Hitting at least 50 times per 3 seconds...

D) Moving several tons of rocks or whatever you want.

E) Repelling 9 mm bullets just by the sheer strength of his muscles.

Good luck with that as none of those feats exists.





Rofl.

I'm waiting for it.

That's always a good laugh.

Sharivan
Originally posted by RealityWarper
You just need one sentence to reply to this by apologizing yourself for being so wrong about Iron Fist and Kenshiro.

I am not apologizing for something I am not wrong about.

You're the one who needs to stop using double standards and accept that the databooks are wrong about Iron Fist.

You need to realize that Kenshiro is not clearing this gauntlet. That he is not a threat to the likes of Daniel Rand let alone the Hulk or Hercules.



No, I am referring to the fact Daniel Rand only starts moving this fast after they have already crouched and are hiding from the gunfire.



No, they didn't. They were already crouched. As you yourself saw they weren't moving then.



Yes, and we clearly do not see them move when Daniel Rand was doing the limbo dodge. Yet you're saying they weren't crouching, and moved within this timeframe.

When Daniel Rand moves this fast they're not moving.



This is fiction, and that is nothing strange within the context of it. We do not know precisely the specifics of the shooter's weapon but going from this it's far more impressive than normal.



Prove that it was an AK-47 when all we know was that it was an assault rifle, and one we have no information on. As far as we know it could be some customized nonsense, and considering it can fire this fast it probably is.

There is a reason this guy missed with every shot.



Nope, you're the one claiming this.

Now prove it.



You mean like how some people are trying to say Kenshiro can beat everyone here at once, and with laughable ease?

No, you do not get to say I am using double standards and are acting like a fanboy.



What reading skills? Half the stuff you brought up is made up. Danny refused Master Khan's offer, and broke out of the Crimson Bands of Cyttorak by using his chi.

It doesn't make sense that Master Khan would actually break the spell. What he wanted was for Danny to go to Kun-Lun, and for the Dragon Kings to rip out Shao-Lao's chi. In the Return to Kun-Lun storyline this is made clear.



That's because Danny stopped moving that fast, and slowed down. I mentioned this was short range speed not long range speed.



The narration is not clear that Daniel Rand is still moving as fast as he did earlier. Going by what we see there he clearly slows down. Possibly because maintaining that speed takes a lot of him.



Neither does Kenshiro if you want to play the databook game. I specifically provided the scene with flechettes which explicitly shows Danny creating after images, and deflecting dozens of flechettes. That's hypersonic at bare minimum.

As well as stopping the bullet mentioned for Brenda after the casing went flying into the air, and he got that shocked look in his eyes as he intercepted it.

Plus, there's that time Danny moved so fast a bullet couldn't leave the barrel of a gun before he already acted.

Power Man & Iron Fist #80

https://i.imgur.com/D90ZkMu.jpg



That would be you. As you are adding context into these scans that is not there. Danny never accepts Master Khan's offer. Master Khan wasn't actually trying to help Danny.



He specifically absorbs the magic from them.

Iron Fist v1 #7

https://m.imgur.com/eysBmP2?r

He even outright mentions absorption, and refers to the fact he did the same with Radion.



It did not as we see an enraged Danny break out of the Crimson Bands of Cyttorak with his chi. After Yu-Ti's guilt becomes apparent.



This was a ruse to trick Danny into going into Kun-Lun. As the Dragon Kings were loyal to Master Khan. Master Khan did nothing. Nor did he do any fancy gestures with his hands when Danny broke out.



Nope, Danny refused to believe him at first and it's only when Yu-Ti failed to answer his question did he break out in a rage. He didn't vocally agree to anything, and Master Khan didn't move to release him.



Show me where Master Khan does anything to suggest he was responsible for that. When it was Daniel Rand's chi that let him break out of it.



No, it really doesn't. They both disappear after they're destroyed, and the art style for the Crimson Bands of Cyttorak is notoriously inconsistent.

The only difference is that Daniel Rand did it with more ease with his chi. Mostly likely due to the fact his chi has a strong affinity for magic.



Daniel Rand was clearly caught in the explosions.

http://imgur.com/a/xOwBu

They were directed at everything around Radion. As he was losing control of his powers at that point.



No, it does not look good from here.

I am not ignoring anything here. You're the one adding things we do not see happen or can't be seen happening.

By the way said radiation would have murdered anyone else instantly.

http://i.imgur.com/k9P4ihx.jpg



This never specifies that this is what Kenshiro is capable of without his touki. Besides that, unmeasurable is not quantifiable and means nothing.

No, it does not make Kenshiro as strong as the Hulk or Thor. Show me Kenshiro lifting a mountain weighing billions tons. Show me Kenshiro cracking nearby moons with the shockwaves of his attacks.

This once again proves my point. As in the same article it says Kenshiro is barely superhuman in speed. It says his strength is limitless. Which besides being a no limit fallacy means nothing unless you wank it to all hell.



As if that's even impressive.

Immortal Weapons #5

http://m.imgur.com/a/0EXnr

He is easily able to leap away from a dragons fire breath, and reach its head by jumping up to it.



As I already noted that article never specifies that Kenshiro is that strong without his touki. So, this is a red herring.



I already provided an instance showing Danny deflect dozens of flechettes, and creating after images. This would be hilariously easy.

There are martial artists in the real world that can punch 39 times in three seconds.



I will do you one better. He could break out of Spiderman's webbing.

Marvel Team #31

https://i.imgur.com/bR2GMIb.jpg



I already provided an instance where Danny catches the bullet that would have killed Brenda. It doesn't go through his hand.

Also, here is something even better. He could survive Sunspots attacks.

New Mutants #44

https://i.imgur.com/5XI3Evf.jpg



I already provided them, and have just given you even more.



I will see if I can have everything by tomorrow since I have to do them across different posts because of how long winded you were. If I even waste any more time with you when it's clear you're not up for being reasoned with.

cdtm
Originally posted by carver9
Some of these people never punched that fast or done half of the things Ken has done with his speed.


As for the thread, Ken clears this.

thumb up

RealityWarper
1/2



Originally posted by Sharivan
I am not apologizing for something I am not wrong about.


Yeah ok.

Let's see how it comes with your usual handwaving, cognitive bias and misunderstanding of what you are reading.



I don't have double standards.

The databook about Kenshiro shows that Ken strength is not measurable and precise when a technique is used.

We saw Kenshiro lift a giant 300 tons boulder without using the Tenryu Kyokuho and the book precise his fist speed in the case of the technique of the Hyakuretsuken.

The durability of Kenshiro greatly increase when he is using the Tenryukyokuho and even more when he is shielding himself with his Toki...

Proof on panel, he is capable to shrugg off completely Raoh and Kaioh most powerful hits and Ki-blast, things that would reduce Danny to ashes.

That's understanding the context which is a thing that you are incapable to do.

The databook about Iron Fist precise that Iron is only capable to reach Peak Human stats when he is summoning his Chi, which obviously put him largely light years below Kenshiro basic physical stats.





You need to realize that I totally don't care about your biased opinion as you proved that you can twist everything that you are reading to make the characters that you like looking better than they are.




That's the other way around.



*sigh*

Now you are changing your claim but don't worry.

Both of your claims are false as I already explained.



You are changing your claim again.

Same shit than above.



They obviously moved within seconds, like Danny Rand, when he limbo dodged OR when he did the acrobatics.

You are the one whom claimed that everything happened under a microsecond...




Rofl.

You are trying too hard.

I will repeat myself once more...

If something happen within a certain time-frame like you are claiming, everything inside that time-frame happens at the same time...

So you have to acknowledge that OR everybody is superfast OR you are Super-Wrong.

The good answer is that you are Super-Wrong.

http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2016/33/1471287476-massivelol.jpg

Nice joke mate ! big grin







This is fiction and it doesn't mean that the writer wrote something completely random.

Here we have a typical cinematic action scene with the hero avoiding bullets...

Unfortunately certain readers (you) are completely missing the context.

So no, everything didn't happen under a microsecond.

I already explained that shit to you in detail in my other posts that you didn't read.

Handwaving make you looks bad.





I'm not speculating like you did.

It can be an AK-47 or an M16, it doesn't matter as you are trying to mislead the audience here...

What matters is that the bullets didn't moved the 10 meters within the timespan of a microsecond like you are claiming.





You are the one whom claimed that everything happened under a microsecond.

As far as I know all of those characters are acting in the same timespan so that's your claim mate.



Rofl.

Nobody here can keep-up with Kenshiro combat skills and speed.

None of them can counter the Muso Tensei as they doesn't have the Muso Tensei themselves.

None of them knows how to counter Kenshiro's pressure-point techniques, even Danny whom is limited to nerves strikes and other mundane pressure-point techniques.

In short, they can't touch him, Ken touches their pressure-points with ease and they all dies in a pool of blood.



Rofl.

You are the one claiming that Danny Rand moves at thousand of times the speed of sound and that he can survive a Nuclear Strike.

That's laughable at best and now you are trying to make me pass for a fanboy.

Poisoning the well is a so common tactic for debaters at your level.



I have cramps because I am laughing too hard.

Seriously you should ask someone to read you the story.

1) He accepted that Master Khan could be right when he began to ask questions to Yu-Ti concerning his parents thus making the use of the Crimson Band useless thus giving no reason to Master Khan to continue to ensare him...

2) The Crimson Band of Cyttorak were dispelled by MK because that's what is happening on panel... They became volatile and disappeared and Danny didn't make any effort... Holy shit that's so crystal clear, I don't get how you can miss that.

When Hulk broke the Crimson Bands they remained solid and "in pieces" which insn't the case for Danny as they dissipated like a magical fog.




Master Khan was trying to convince Danny that he was right instead of killing him when Danny subdued.

That completely make sense but you prefer to find a new way to twist the story.



*sigh*

More fan-made explanations please.

Wrong. Already explained at least 3 times in that thread.



It's not clear for you because you don't understand what you are reading.

Wrong. Already explained at least 3 times in that thread.



I've never gave a measurement of Kenshiro's speed, instead I posted a feat for Danny fighting someone and the same for Kenshiro.

This feat shows Kenshiro's combat speed faster than anyone in that thread by light years.




That's aim-blocking.

It's completely irrelevant to that thread and even more to a possible combat situation.
Putting your hands in the path of someone hitting you is possible when you know where he is shooting.

That's hypersonic based on what ?

Danny is moving his hands a few centimeters next to him to block a few flechetters.

Rofl.

That's a completely mute point.

RealityWarper
2/2



You are missing the point once more.

Danny is faster than the shooter, not than the bullet.

Moreover Luke Cage distracted the shooter before he shot Danny, giving him the time to move out of way (aim dodging) the bullet...

http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2016/33/1471292907-11.jpg




You are repetitive. This was already adressed.




Already adressed those points too.



Yeah to normal human but Danny's resistance his better thanks to summoning his Chi, which doesn't matter anyway as I already proved that he can't do anything to Kenshiro's Ki-blast.



Bis repetita.




I've said that he is in the same class AKA the class 100, not that he has similar feats.

One more misunderstanding coming from you...



It's about Kenshiro's ability to run, not his combat speed.

You are trying too hard. Take a nap.



Nope.
It's an official information, which is backed-up in the story as we never saw Kenshiro's limits in term of strength as he wasn't even trying lifting a 300 tons rock so his limits remains unknow.



Rofl.

You prove once more that you don't understand what you are reading.

He had two complete panels to spot the Dragon's Breath AKA several seconds and even then he jumped just like 2 or 3 meters at max next to him..

Nothing impressive at street-level...

http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2016/33/1471293597-9.jpg

And the feat of reaching his head is just ridiculous as the Dragon attacked Danny's feets and then Danny put weigth on Dragon's head to land on his neck...

He barely jumped two meters high if I'm highballing, that's not even close to Kenshiro whom can jump 9 m high without amping himself.




A red herring is showing completely irrelevant scans about Danny Rand isntead of combat feats that would prove him at least able to touch Kenshiro.

Instead you are posting feats about Danny avoiding projectiles and other bullshit which doesn't matter at all.

There is the definition of a Red Herring which fits perfectly what you are trying, unsuccefully, to do:


"A red herring, besides being a type of pickled fish, is a fallacious argument style in which an irrelevant or false topic is presented in an attempt to divert attention from the original issue, with the intention of "winning" an argument by leading attention away from the original argument and on to another, often unrelated topic.

This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because changing the topic of discussion does not count as an argument against a claim"



Irrelevant.

Moving on.



I asked you for feats of Danny that could put him at least on par with Kenshiro's base stats in fist speed.

You are trying to divert the discussion on another topic because there is not feats on that order for Iron Fist.

You have no feats on that order because Danny has never reached this kind of combat speed.




Rofl.

Let's calculate shall we ?

http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2016/33/1471295485-14.jpg

Peter's web tensile strength is only 120 pounds per square millimeter of cross section.


http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2016/33/1471295477-13.jpg

After calculation:
http://www.convert-me.com/en/convert/pressure/psi.html

This means the Pressure of the wed is only of 8 pascal.


Kenshiro has lift a 300 tons rock which means a mass of 300 000 kilos and let's say his palms have an average size of 0,546 square meters.

http://www.theaveragebody.com/average_hand_size.php



http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2016/33/1471296393-16.jpg


http://planetcalc.com/1858/


The calculator find a pressure of 2694134 Pascal.

Which means that the pressure of the rock on Kenshiro is 2694134 / 8 = 336766 times stronger than the one endured by Iron Fist...

Yeah that's totally comparable mate. ROFL...





Let's compare the destructive power of this "out-of-solar-energy" Roberto Dacosta (Solar is dark when fully charged in enery) to the power of a casual punch of a young and far weaker than in the end of the series Raoh...

http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2016/33/1471295802-12.jpg

http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2016/33/1471295800-15.jpg






Your post is even worse than the previous one.
You are trying to hard to maje Iron Fist pass for what he isn't.



I perfectly know Iron Fist and Kenshiro and you obviously don't.

Just accept that Iron Fist is smoked instantly and effortlessly and move on.

RealityWarper
Originally posted by cdtm
thumb up

Rofl.

He has 5 complete posts to address.

Seeing how far he has been those times I don't expect his next post to be great.

RealityWarper
The feat about Danny jumping hasn't charged so I will post it here:

http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2016/33/1471293591-10.jpg

Wow !

And the feat of reaching his head is just ridiculous as the Dragon attacked Danny's feets and then Danny put weigth on Dragon's head to land on his neck...

He barely jumped two meters high if I'm highballing, that's not even close to Kenshiro whom can jump 9 m high without amping himself.

Impressive really ! big grin

Let"s see Kenshiro amped with the Tenryu Kyokuho:

http://i7.mangareader.net/fist-of-the-north-star/25/fist-of-the-north-star-1007522.jpg

http://i9.mangareader.net/fist-of-the-north-star/25/fist-of-the-north-star-1007524.jpg

The guy is literally above a stadium...

http://www.detail-online.com/article/london-2012-olympic-stadium-16402/

For example the highest points of the London Olympic Stadium are 63 meters high...

That's far beyond anything Iron Fist is capable to do.

Rofl.

"Barely superhuman".

HAHAHAHAHA ! XD

RealityWarper
And as I previously said :

Kenshiro can jump 9 meters high without amping himself.

http://i10.mangareader.net/fist-of-the-north-star/5/fist-of-the-north-star-1007105.jpg

cdtm
Originally posted by RealityWarper
Rofl.

He has 5 complete posts to address.

Seeing how far he has been those times I don't expect his next post to be great.

That was before I saw the back and forth about Iron Fist.

Now I'm torn. Hard to vote against The Fist...

Did you read the Living Weapon series? A lot of impressive feats in that series. Walking away from getting blasted between K'un L'un and Earth's dimensional barrier without a scratch alone.. Came in like a missile, and got up like nothing happened.

iceman24567
Rand sonic booms him to death

RealityWarper
Originally posted by cdtm
That was before I saw the back and forth about Iron Fist.

Now I'm torn. Hard to vote against The Fist...

Did you read the Living Weapon series? A lot of impressive feats in that series. Walking away from getting blasted between K'un L'un and Earth's dimensional barrier without a scratch alone.. Came in like a missile, and got up like nothing happened.

I've already explained all of this.

Read my posts.

cdtm
Originally posted by RealityWarper
I've already explained all of this.

Read my posts.

I've read the last few pages, and didn't see anything from the Living Weapon mini. Looks like mostly Claremont era and Brubaker/Fraction scans.

The feat I'm talking about, is when Prince of Orphans opens up with a full blown Kamehameha wave. Launches him from K'un K'un into the sky, and back down into the ice and snow Earthside. More or less fell like Wolverine did in AvsX, but the fact he doesn't have a healing factor or adamantium bones makes it a nice feat..

Sharivan
Originally posted by RealityWarper
That's not "all that he did" during that time frame...

The writers want to indicates that he perceveid an attack coming and had the reflex to aim-dodge very fast.

He didn't do all of those actions during one microsecond... My God you really should ask someone with actual reading skills to read it for you.

Do you even know what reflex means? It means actually moving not processing something. It means having to actually react to something within a certain timeframe.

Yes, he sensed the attack but he also reacted within a microsecond. He doesn't have precognition. This is the only way he is going to be able to detect the guy otherwise.



As I said before it's Daniel Rand who is moving within this timeframe. It's not the civilians but maybe it's the shooter. The gun might be something special but we have no idea what it is or what modifications have been done to it.

Also, you're making up a distance for the bullets again. With no reference for said distance. We don't see clearly how quickly they move. They have already hit their targets when Daniel Rand was moving. The civilians are lying still, and there's nothing to measure for them.



You have yet to prove it was an AK-47, and it's either that or it wasn't actually moving that fast. As we see them hit their targets already after Danny has dodged them making them near impossible to calculate. As we do not see how fast they move in this time-frame.



It was either that or the spread came all at once. As the bullets already hit their targets as Danny is moving we can't tell how fast they are exactly. Since we do not see them move within this timeframe either.



They didn't crouch then. They crouched after the shooter started firing. Which was after Danny sensed him, and some time after that he started moving.



No, but I do see that you have a poor comprehension of how nonsensical comic books can be in regard to this.



He wasn't even looking at the shooter when he did his "acrobatics." He just saw him during the initial shots.



That's the same as saying 0.03 seconds is a colorful way of saying something. It is a specific time-frame. It's not anything along the lines of "he moved as the wind does" or he "was swift as a rabbit."

Speaking of 0.03 seconds.

Power Man & Iron Fist #54

https://i.imgur.com/WOnwAf0.jpg

Danny was able to charge his Iron Fist in that time, and then use it at 0.05 seconds.



I posted that very scan, and that's precisely why I say he sensed the shooter before this happened. You're disagreeing with me when I said the same thing you are here.

You do know that "sense" includes things like sight?



Nope, that would be Daniel Rand as the civilians are not moving as he does in this time-frame. We don't see them do anything except huddle together. We do not even know what position these civilians were in before this. You're assuming they moved in the same microsecond Danny did. When we don't see them do anything.




No, the civilians don't but I would wager the shooter does. As he is actually doing something during this period of time. His gun is probably not normal either. As it could fire this quickly.



That would be defiant of Occam's Razor, and ignoring the fact they gave a specific time-frame for this. You're thinking about it too much. You're saying the civilians are moving when they haven't. You're assuming that the shooter is using a normal assault rifle.



They're not irrelevant, and they're nowhere near as bad as you trying to say Kenshiro has a snowball's chance in hell against Ares or Hercules. Heck, the Thing would be problematic.



Only if you ignore what the narration is saying, say the civilians are moving when they're not, and that the shooter is using an AK-47 when he clearly isn't.



That would be because there is a ten-thousand character limit, and I had no choice but to cut out what you said. I figured you would be smart enough to realize what I was replying to.



As I already proved several time he does. Well, unless we take your false claims at face value. In which case, sure.



Yet supported by positively nothing else in the story. Where we see that Molecule Man wanted to be found, and that he wanted to lose. That his abilities couldn't stretch beyond a single town. Heck, not even beyond 44 people.

Which ignores everything that happens there, and in previous stories.

Yeah, no.



You were already proven wrong on this point in the last thread we have about this. I didn't even need to correct you. Someone else beat me to it.



Tom Brevoort who is one of the worst things to happen to comic books in the past decade, and whose knowledge about both Molecule Man and the Sentry is laughable.



You mean like yours which is not supported by anything in the story? Which is only supported by Tom Brevoort the fedora wearing hipster bastard?



The civilians weren't moving. It was only Danny, and the shooter. Nobody else factors into it at that precise instance. Which did happen in a microsecond as clarified by the narration itself.



Wrong.

Danny caught it precisely before it could pierce his heart, and it's noted that his superhuman reflexes are what saved him there. Just by a hair's breath he reached out and grabbed it before it could budge an inch closer.



This coming from the person who is happy to rely on statements and data-books outside of stories instead of what happens in the stories themselves?



How does that mean it's aim-dodging? That just means he detected the shooter, and that he was aware that he was being attacked.

It doesn't change the fact he reacted within a microsecond in order to avoid that gunfire.

Just for example Luther Strode can see an attacker, and their bullets coming at him but it doesn't change the fact when he does so.



Barely, and throughout that entire fight he wasn't focused with his mind being elsewhere. Despite that he still manages to dodge a bolt of lightning.

Sharivan
No, they don't. Danny clearly moves his hands and upper body all over the place in order to get them all.

Power Man & Iron Fist #50

https://i.imgur.com/apaLQqQ.jpg

How is that aim-dodging?



No, it isn't.

There is no way he could have known beforehand where those flechettes would have gone without being able to see them in flight and react to them afterwards. There are numerous different flechettes being fired at him in different directions.



How can I when we're breaking the ten-thousand character limit? It's your own fault for being long winded. I would have to address each of your posts in different posts, and I don't want to do that.



As I already noted this is your fault. As you're being so long winded that we're breaking the character limit on posts. This forces me to cut out of parts of yours in order to respond.



I am not the one who doesn't know what reflex means, and who is adding things that are not there. That would be you.



Prove this.



Yet another thing you need to prove as they don't hit as hard as nuclear armaments. Whereas Danny does.



Minor damages? The entire ship went down. If that's your definition of minor you need to revise it.



You need to actually prove this.



Yes?

Iron Fist: TLW #11

http://imgur.com/a/HhdlX

He is quite clearly a giant wreathed in flames, and Danny was able to snuff them out completely rendering Zhu-Rong powerless and dead.

Iron Fist: TLW #12

http://imgur.com/a/DH9g8



Nope, I actually have every issue at my disposal.

http://imgur.com/a/ub1Zm

The fact is Danny was able to snuff out the power of the God of Fire, and overpower his flames. Which are definitely not of the normal variety to begin with. Which might have something to do with Danny's absorption or maybe not. Hard to say there.

Oh, and here is the entire issue.

Iron Fist: TLW #11

http://imgur.com/a/gigFZ



As I said before I did because there was no room for both my words and yours in the post. The character limit didn't let me do it, and I didn't want to double post.



Not my fault you're long winded, and you're forcing me to double post now. Before I didn't bother but now I will since apparently you can't tell by the order of each point you made.



No, I do as already clarified. I have pretty much every Iron Fist appearance on my laptop, and it's only a matter of reading through them.

http://imgur.com/a/QmnWl

Sharivan
Originally posted by RealityWarper
2/3Do you mean that "-snip-" isn't impressive at all by Danny's standards ?

Once again refer back to the order of your own posts. As I am not digging through that again. The character limit restricted me.



I have a feeling that I already replied to this in my previous posts.



Yes, Danny specifically does. He also broke Radion's containment armor. Which was meant to contain his power to begin with. Besides it being compared to a hydrogen bomb it has also done things such as destroying an inter-dimensional portal causing a tear in the fabric of reality. Which was also compared to a baby nuke.



Yes, it is? I specifically brought that up unless you mixed up the scans there and looked at the wrong ones.



Then you should have been more concise. I had no choice it was either that or I cut out my own points. Which would have been weird since I would just been quoting you.



As I already noted Danny refused Master Khan's offer, broke out, and attacked the portal causing a rift in the fabric of reality.

Here is the entire scene from start to finish.

Iron Fist v1 #7

https://imgur.com/a/ZIQZj

It's clear that Danny doesn't want to go back, and his pride as a warrior of Kun-Lun wouldn't let him as noted by his internal monologue.

The only thing we see Master Khan do is create the portal. Which he isn't able to save from Danny. As the latter smashes it causing a tear in the fabric of reality.



He had every reason to. He wasn't being nice here. The dragon kings of Kun-Lun are subservient to him.

Shao-Lao was his familiar. What Master Khan wanted was Danny's chi.

He could have served Danny up to the Dragon Kings, and got the chi back but he didn't. Which means that he had to rely on underhanded methods to get it back.

As seen in Power Man & Iron Fist #75

http://imgur.com/a/G87Km



No, you haven't.

I just proved it was never Danny's intention to accept, and the whole scene was Master Khan trying to convince to accept the offer.

On top of adding in the context that Master Khan never intended for this begin with. He commands the truth out of Yu-Ti but we know they are league with each other so that was probably an act.



No, they didn't.

Here is what happens:

1) Master Khan traps Danny.

2) He tries to convince him to accept the offer but as we both know the whole thing was a ruse.

3) Danny refuses, and Master Khan realizes this so he offers Danny revenge.

4) Once Yu-Ti's guilt is clear Danny, enraged for every good reason, breaks out with his chi and then destroys the portal causing a tear in the fabric of reality.



Nope, it was Danny's punch which caused this. As his punch was the one that disrupted it, and causes this tear in the fabric of reality to happen.

In the first place destroying an interdimensional portal is an instance of destroying space. As it's a hole in space to begin with.



Then explain how Danny is able to destroy a hole in the fabric of reality otherwise.



Sorry no, that's your shtick not mine.



Prove that a conventional bomb can destroy a hole in the fabric of reality. That's rhetorical because I know you can't.



He is directly responsible because he destroyed the portal to begin with.



You should heed your own advice, and pick up an dictionary at some point.

You need it more than I do.



Then we're agreed. Your concession is accepted.

More seriously, the context is clearly on my side here.

As I have already made clear.



Then I shall take that as a concession of your part.



Nope, we never see Danny go through the train he only hit it head on.

Danny launches himself into sky specifically because the train is also in the sky by manipulating electromagnetism. He then falls down from the sky afterwards near where they were. This is because that's where he was in the sky not on the ground.

You have once again not proven that they were a hundred meters near the explosion. Nor three-hundred which was your initial claim.

You're taking the "it's great to fight alongside them" out of context. When it is simply referring to the fact he proud to fight on the same side as them.



I have taken apart your arguments over here. So, you're wrong.



Nope, not at all.



As It should be clear by now I did that because of the character limit on posts.



Yes, and you're reading them wrong and relying on confirmation bias by ignoring any context that disagrees with you and only focusing on what does agree with you.



Why don't you take a break so you can find your glasses? Your eyesight seems to be failing you. I hear that comes with the territory.



You're not the one dealing with multiple forum breaking posts in a row but you will be soon. I am probably going to have around eleven posts.

Get ready to feel exhausted.



Yes, and I am not being paid to shift through your keyboard vomit but I do anyway.



As noted before there is a character limit, and I didn't want to double post.



Just because I cut them out doesn't mean I forgot what you said. I had no choice because you're not concise.



This has yet to be proven.



That would be you. You have the full context but fixate specifically on only parts of it. A fine example is when you ignore parts of narration that disagree with you, and only accept parts that don't. Instead of building a whole picture out of them all.



I have already taken apart your explanations.



He was going to. That was why it was so important for him to be depowered before he did. Otherwise London would have been destroyed.

Iron Fist v1 #4

http://imgur.com/a/kr77P

Sharivan
Yet, he didn't and both of those times Danny survived Radion's explosions.

He was specifically tired because of his overuse of the Iron Fist.

Iron Fist v1 #4

http://i.imgur.com/w6BJyhy.jpg

While we're at here is the entire issue.

http://imgur.com/a/Juz7w



Who specifically has the power of a hydrogen bomb, and was going to destroy London sooner rather than later.



No, they're really not just take for example the fact if we take the databooks to heart Mjolnir can only fly at speeds of around mach 30.



This is backwards once again. You're the one whose interpretations are incorrect.



How in world does Daniel Rand being a peak human, with his chi, make any kind of remote sense? It makes about as much sense as Kenshiro being as slow as Usain Bolt.



So am I.

The difference is that you think the databooks are reliable when they're not.



This coming from the person who thinks Kenshiro can clear here even against the Hulk and Hercules? No, you're the one being unreasonable here.



Nope, we never see Danny go through the train he only hit it head on.

Danny launches himself into sky specifically because the train is also in the sky by manipulating electromagnetism. He then falls down from the sky afterwards near where they were. This is because that's where he was in the sky not on the ground.

You have once again not proven that they were a hundred meters near the explosion. Nor three-hundred which was your initial claim.

You're taking the "it's great to fight alongside them" out of context. When it is simply referring to the fact he proud to fight on the same side as them.



I have taken apart your arguments over here. So, you're wrong.



Nope, not at all.



As It should be clear by now I did that because of the character limit on posts.



Yes, and you're reading them wrong and relying on confirmation bias by ignoring any context that disagrees with you and only focusing on what does agree with you.



Why don't you take a break so you can find your glasses? Your eyesight seems to be failing you. I hear that comes with the territory.



You're not the one dealing with multiple forum breaking posts in a row but you will be soon. I am probably going to have around eleven posts.

Get ready to feel exhausted.



Yes, and I am not being paid to shift through your keyboard vomit but I do anyway.



As noted before there is a character limit, and I didn't want to double post.



Just because I cut them out doesn't mean I forgot what you said. I had no choice because you're not concise.



This has yet to be proven.



That would be you. You have the full context but fixate specifically on only parts of it. A fine example is when you ignore parts of narration that disagree with you, and only accept parts that don't. Instead of building a whole picture out of them all.



I have already taken apart your explanations.



He was going to. That was why it was so important for him to be depowered before he did. Otherwise London would have been destroyed.

Iron Fist v1 #4

http://imgur.com/a/kr77P



Yet, he didn't and both of those times Danny survived Radion's explosions.

He was specifically tired because of his overuse of the Iron Fist.

Iron Fist v1 #4

http://i.imgur.com/w6BJyhy.jpg

While we're at here is the entire issue.

http://imgur.com/a/Juz7w



Who specifically has the power of a hydrogen bomb, and was going to destroy London sooner rather than later.



No, they're really not just take for example the fact if we take the databooks to heart Mjolnir can only fly at speeds of around mach 30.



This is backwards once again. You're the one whose interpretations are incorrect.



How in world does Daniel Rand being a peak human, with his chi, make any kind of remote sense? It makes about as much sense as Kenshiro being as slow as Usain Bolt.



So am I.

The difference is that you think the databooks are reliable when they're not.



This coming from the person who thinks Kenshiro can clear here even against the Hulk and Hercules? No, you're the one being unreasonable here.

Sharivan
Originally posted by RealityWarper
3/3

Danny can't absorb Ki-blast.

Proof on panel:

http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2016/33/1471251455-the-immortal-iron-fist-006-011.jpg
http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2016/33/1471251456-the-immortal-iron-fist-006-012.jpg

He lies on the ground after a weak Ki-blast...

The weakest Ki-blast of a young Raoh destroys entire buildings...

Yes, Danny can absorb chi and has done so on several occasions.

When he stole his chi back from the Steel Serpent for example.

Iron Fist v2 #2

http://imgur.com/a/w611g

That was the second time Danny stole it back by the way. The first time the Steel Serpent did that he died because he couldn't handle Danny's chi, and quite literally melted.



No, it won't.

Show me Goshoha working against anyone who can survive punching a train filled with enough explosives to destroy a city. Show me Goshoha hurting someone who can survive blows powerful enough to rupture space and time. As Danny could do that easily enough when Davos fought him without his chi. The very same chi that can destroy inter-dimensional portals and the fabric of reality.



That example is using something psychic in order to transform the Hulk back to normal. It is even specifically referred to as psychic imagery in that scan.

Yet, you're the one saying I am illiterate?



You're welcome. I live to please.



That's makes it impressive without even having known the hypnotic fist style Danny's chi could mesmerize the Hulk. Who explicitly is resistant to mind control.

http://imgur.com/a/sbAMJ




Which are?



No limit fallacy.

Show me Kenshiro copying any kind of mind control technique or anything in regards to telepathy.



Only specifically after Danny healed the damage done to him by the demon. Which seemed to give him the strength fight against it long enough to kill himself.



I wasn't the one making multiple long posts in a row, and splitting them said posts apart instead of simply snipping in order to save space and time.

Now I will though.

Hope you enjoy making twenty more long posts to counter my eleven.



It should be clear that I snip to save room by now.




So you say but I am not seeing you back it up.

Which healed Matt Murdoch's soul. As the damage wasn't physical in nature. It didn't tear him part. It twisted his soul.



The point was that Danny's chi could reach Matt's soul, and give it the strength to fight back against the demonic possession.



Which is basically the same thing? We haven't seen Raoh's Goshoha or his punches destroy spirits. So, I am not sure why that means Kenshiro has a sudden defense against this.

Unless you are still trying to the obvious spiritual aspects of chi.



Why not?

More importantly can Kenshiro hurt Danny if he dies and becomes a ghost?



I could ask the same of you.



No limit fallacy. The Hulk and Hercules can both interact with space and time with brute strength. If they can do so with something that abstract they can do the same with Musou Tensei.



I find this extremely ironic coming from you considering your track record lately in regards to the Sentry.



Pot, kettle.

Kettle, pot.

Black on black racism.

We have to solve the problems in our community first before we blame the police.



The most likely scenario here is that Danny punches Kenshiro's head off before he can do anything, and then proceeds to wander the world as a traveling monk by the name of El Presidente. What wonders he leaves in his wake.




Nope, when someone is forced into becoming spirit and thrust into the afterlife they basically are. This has nothing to do with astral bodies or astral planes.






Yes, actually.

Just the Thunderer for example despite being much weaker than Iron Fist was able to live for millions of years. Thanks to his chi.

Power Man & Iron Fist #75

http://imgur.com/a/qSJL8

Daniel Rand is also able to heal himself, and bring others back from the brink of death.

The Immortal Iron Fist #8

https://i.imgur.com/pwsbIkH.jpg

Heroes for Hire #12

https://i.imgur.com/6qbSd9a.jpg




I already took apart both of those points. So, you're going to have to come up with something better.



No limit fallacy.

You really enjoy exaggerating this particular technique don't you? Just for your information a no limit fallacy is saying something has no limits without evidence. Which you can't provide anyway. As the evidence needed is impossible to get.

Such as it being able to protect Kenshiro from everything that's every existed in fictional media. You need to show it working against positively everything.



His chi can work on spiritual bodies. It can disrupt space and time. It is working here.

Sharivan
Which is relevant how exactly? It's going to protect Kenshiro from attacks that can work on spirits, and even the fabric of reality?



That would be you as evident by the fact you outright omit or ignore context at your leisure even when it's right in front of you.



I literally have nearly every appearance of Daniel Rand in Marvel on my laptop.



Danny won't even break a sweat as he tap dances on Kenshiro's face. Luke Cage is going to have to tag in. Otherwise, Kenshiro gets to learn what's it is like to be a dance floor.



A comic book company known for its stupidity and inconsistency. Who can barely keep up with its own canon.



Just a friendly warning is all. It's a pretty bad position to debate from.



I sincerely especially considering that this one has no official translation.



It shows that he is only as fast as Usain Bolt when it comes to running. Which is contradicted by what we see him do.





So now you're to argue that Danny is peak human by our own standards. As fifty punches in three seconds is only very, very slightly superhuman.

There are actual people who can punch 13 times in one second. Then 39 times in three seconds.



Danny dodges bullets once again, and they're explicitly in slow motion.

Power Man & Iron Fist #89

https://i.imgur.com/6qbSd9a.jpg



Citation needed.

Where is it stated that this what Kenshiro is capable of these things without his touki. You're making positive claims with nothing to back them up but your mountains of contradictions.



How can you even honestly argue that Danny is peak human WITH HIS CHI at that. This is the most dishonest line of debate I have ever seen. You're arguing after everything I have provided, and all the context you butchered that he isn't even superhuman?



No, here is a better example of Danny's combat speed.

The Immortal Iron Fist #23

http://imgur.com/a/g948X

Where Danny does the same thing Kenshiro does whenever he punches in a flurry. Whilst suffering from heavy exhaustion due to fighting in a demonic gladiator on a daily basis, and being kept in a dungeon.



That's funny from my vantage point you seem to have this entirely backwards as it seems as if Danny is going to be tap dancing on somebody's face tonight.

Sharivan
Originally posted by RealityWarper
Yeah ok.

Let's see how it comes with your usual handwaving, cognitive bias and misunderstanding of what you are reading.

You see, you say these things but act in precisely this way yourself. You're ignoring the context I provided. You overlooked what I noted. You fixate on one part of the context whilst ignoring the rest and have the nerve to act as if I am the crazy one here.



Yes, you do as seen in this thread in regards to Kenshiro. As seen in other threads in regards to the Sentry.



Which contradicts what we actually see. Unless you to argue that Kenshiro can lift the entire universe on his shoulders or something.

The speed also contradicts what we see of Kenshiro in the manga.



Which does not mean it's any faster with the other techniques unless specified otherwise. It could simply that he punches people for that long a time before he finishes his strikes.



Which pales in comparison to what Danny has endured, and handled in his career. Kenshiro hasn't survived anything akin to megatons of tnt or an explosion that could have wiped Kun-Lun off the map.



Nope, they probably wouldn't even faze Danny all that much. As nuclear armaments are insufficient as it is when it comes to hurting our resident martial artist of Kun-Lun.



That would be you once again when you ignored that Danny refused Khan's offer, and that the Dragon Kings of Kun-Lun were subservient to him.



Which is as egregiously wrong as Kenshiro being only able to move as fast as Usain Bolt and only punching slightly faster than peak humans in our world.

As I already noted databooks are unreliable in every sense of the word. Yet, it continues to fly over your head.




You need to learn that I don't care about how you ignore or omit the rest of the context in order to service your biased opinions. You can use the confirmation bias all you like but it's not making the rest of context disappear.



Now we're going in circles. You say I am doing this, and I am saying you're doing this.



Which I have recently rebuked several times over. No matter how much you plug your ears, and pretend your subjective opinions make sense?

They're not becoming true any time soon.



No, I am not.

You made the claim that these civilians are moving in this time-frame. Now prove that they are.



Prove it then.

Show me them actually moving in this time-frame instead of staying huddled on the floor. As from what I can see they didn't move at all. That was the shooter.



I claimed that everything Danny did happened in that timeframe. Along with whatever kept up with. In this case the shooter.



Now you're sounding as if you are a broken record. You can repeat it all you want but I already rebuked it several times already.



Yes, and those civilians weren't moving in that timeframe at all. Simply Danny, and the Shooter were moving. Nobody else had the chance in that particular scan.



I am acknowledging that the people who actually moved in this time-frame are superfast. Which only includes Danny and the shooter.



Yet you have nothing concrete to actually back it up.

What a surprise.



It's not a joke. That's what Danny did, and as I clarified those people huddled on the floor? We never see when they move.



Despite the narrator asserting otherwise. Numerous showings pinning Daniel Rand as far, far faster than sound.

As well as all of the other instance of superhuman reflexes you tried to either ignore or purposely misinterpret.

Such as with Danny and Master Khan, the fact Danny moved to defeat someone in the time it would take a bullet to leave a barrel, and doing the same to save Brenda.



I did read them.

The problem was I had to snip them after replying because of how long winded you are. Don't worry though.

I am going to give you a taste of your own medicine soon.



Yes, you are. You're presuming something without any evidence.



So, care to provide that evidence which shows that it is either an AK-47 or an M16? I have been asking for it for a while now.



We don't see by how much they move at all. I am talking about the distance here. I haven't been referring to the time. Which is what you think I have been talking about.



That's because as the narrator makes clear this is the time-frame in which that happens. Whether you like it or not.



Then show me that couple moving on the page where this happens. Oh wait, they don't actually do anything. What a surprise.



Despite the fact I have proven that Danny is even faster than Kenshiro.

Several times.



No limit fallacy once again. Show me musou tensei working against characters who are so strong that they hurt abstract things such as space and time.



Kenshiro wouldn't be able to press the Hulks or Hercules pressure points to begin with. Not with their strength and durability.

Danny is so fast that it wouldn't even work, and on top of the fact he can absorb chi through direct contact? That ends with Kenshiro's techniques failing as they are entirely reliant on touki.

http://i.imgur.com/eYH8lsC.jpg

As seen here.

Just hitting the pressure points isn't enough.



Nope, Kenshiro is not pressing the Hulk's or Hercules pressure points. Danny either murders him before then or absorbs his touki.



Ayup, and it's all sound. As I have proven to you already several times. You can feel free to disagree if you want but when you're wrong?

You are wrong.



Which you are. Have you forgotten how you said Kenshiro could defeat all of these characters at once, and with laughable ease?



Which you have done yourself by claiming that I didn't know the context. That I did this "sort of thing" in other threads.

Just as I have pointed your hypocrisy out.

Sharivan
Is that so?

I feel the same way whenever I see you trying to debate.



Yet as I already noted Danny had no intention of going back. As that would have disgraced his pride as a warrior of Kun-Lun.

We clearly see that Danny is still trapped here.



No, it isn't.

What is happening is that Master Khan is ordering Yu-Ti to answer, and then his guilt becomes apparent.

It's then that Danny's hands begins to glow and he breaks out of the Crimson Bands of Cyttorak.



In due part of the fact that Danny's chi has already shown to be highly effective against magic, and he has shown to be able to absorb it.

Yet, you're complaining about me missing context?



Due in part that Danny broke out of them with his chi rather than only brute strength, and he already has a history of absorpting magic in this very issue.



Nope, Master Khan had every intention of killing him for his chi. As seen in the Return to Kun-Lun storyline. Where we see that the Dragon Kings are subservient to him.



What I am doing is taking everything we know about Master Khan and Yu-Ti into account. Namely that the latter was subservient to the former. Along with the other Dragon Kings.





Yes, and I already explained that Danny wasn't moving this fast 24/7. There is a difference in combat speed and travel speed. As you yourself acknowledged with Kenshiro earlier.

He moved this fast specifically during that one instance, and when he caught that knife later.



Neither do you since you seem so keen on dismissing Danny's many feats here in any way that you can.



Not wrong. As I already corrected you several times myself. We're going in circles.



You posted a single low-end instead of one of the many more impressive feats that Danny has. Which you dishonestly claimed was the best he has for combat speed.



After-images, and fancy blurs are the farthest thing from quantifiable. I can even admit that. What makes it quantifiable is time and distance.



No, it is clearly not. He is creating after-images just like Kenshiro but that's not what makes it quantifiable. It's the speed of flechettes which are similar in regards to bullets.



No, it isn't.

What it is you ignoring an obvious instance of super-speed compounded on the fact it was against dozens of flechetes coming at him every which way. Which forced him to move his upper body a lot.



Only against a single object. It's not against dozens of them flying at you at once, and especially not when you explicitly use super-speed to stop them.

How could he have positioned himself to even catch them all at once?

He doesn't anyway. As we see in the scan.



Flechettes are similar in speed to bullets, and he was blocking dozens of them.

Danny is moving his hands a few centimeters next to him to block a few flechetters.



No, it isn't as I have already explained.

Not my fault it's flying over your head.

Sharivan
Originally posted by RealityWarper
2/2
You are missing the point once more.

Danny is faster than the shooter, not than the bullet.

Nope, it's made quite clear that Danny did all of that as the bullet was leaving that other guy's gun.

http://i.imgur.com/tO6qEfq.jpg

Which means he is faster than the shooter and the bullet.



Nope, this is where your reading comprehension fails. Danny specifically moves as the bullet is leaving the barrel. That is blatantly superhuman. It means before it could even leave the barrel Danny was already moving faster than it.



No, it wasn't. You never addressed that added context. You ignored it instead.



Your arguments? I have taken them apart. You have nothing now.



Yet, I already proved you wrong and showed you how Danny was able to steal back his chi from Davos. That happened not once but twice.

Heck, his origin story is all about stealing chi from Shou-Lao the Undying. It has worked against radiation, and it has worked against magic.

I have satisfied the burden of proof.



Ad nauseam.



Saying that Kenshiro is in the same class as Hulk or Hercules in strength is a disgusting overestimation of his strength.



Not a misunderstanding you were quite clear about your opinion earlier.

Originally posted by RealityWarper
Kenshiro can take everyone in this gauntlet at the same time from 1 to 10 and still win with ease.

You're the one who is dickriding right now. I would never say something so outlandish for Iron Fist. Yet you complain about the thousands of times the speed of sound and nuclear punches?



Nope, you wanted me to address your points without snipping them? I am going to do that right now.

I can't wait for your twenty post counter argument.

That's sarcasm.



Yes.

You are so wrong here.



So you get to say it has no limits? No thank you. I don't eat up garbage. I prefer my meals fresh and healthy. Just because it wasn't hard doesn't mean he can literally lift or overpower anyone that exists.



This coming from the guy who thinks that Kenshiro can destroy all ten combatants here at the same time with ease?

Yeah, not buying something this transparent.



Nope, by angular scaling when Danny jumped away from the dragon he cleared a good dozen meters.

http://i.imgur.com/2kjsO4U.jpg

Notice how far away he is from the dragon's head in contrast to before? That's way more than nine meters. As that dragon was huge but it's head looks tiny now because of the distance crossed.



Neither is Kenshiro's speed if the databook is to be believed.



Making up more numbers without any explanations. That's definitely more than two meters but that wasn't what impressed me. It was when Danny leaped away from the dragon's breath.

Which by angular scaling would be pretty damn far.

Also, once again where is the citation for the databook saying this was Kenshiro not using any touki? I have yet to see that evidence.

I imagine that I never will.



I already explained why all of those were relevant. Just look over my posts. It should be easy going through eleven different long posts. Now get to that or whatever it is you're going to do.



Which does matter. As I have already explained. You are the trying to debate "seriously" when you already made your bias clear since the beginning.



No, I think someone who is trying set themselves up as a reasonable debater while at the same saying things such as "Daniel Rand is peak human at best" and "Kenshiro can defeat everyone in this gauntlet at the same time" is far more appropriate.



The issue in question being your obvious favor for Kenshiro that is blatantly egregious. You dodging the context I provided, and relying on confirmation biases that cut them out.

Then there's your fixation with databooks instead of relying on what we see in the stories. Which you break yourself by saying that Kenshiro is that crazy fast.



Not irrelevant but that's fine.

I accept your concession if you won't bother.

Sharivan
Which I provided in wholesale already. Which you handwaved, and ignored because of "MUH DATABOOKS" and "DAT FIST OF THE NORTH STAR."



No, I am not and I already addressed the issue of speed. If you actually paid attention. On top of providing the other feats you asked for. Which you tried to dismiss as well.



Yet, I have provided half a dozen examples where Danny does and even many where he exceeds what Kenshiro could even dream of.

Funny that.



A blatantly dishonest calculation because you're relying on a databook to begin with. Which is contradicted by what we see Spiderman's webbing subdue.

When it has worked against far stronger enemies than that would suggest.



Yet it was able to restrain Iron Man, Luke Cage, and even the likes of entire buildings. Be used to decapitate sentinels. Able to throw large pieces of rubble, and do things that suggests it's far stronger than this.

Yeah no, you don't get to use this.



That's not the average size of a man's palm. You didn't even input the proper information into it. I don't imagine you put in the correct information in the other brackets either.



Which is wrong because you put in the incorrect data for the brackets. I don't imagine you even know how to properly use this calculator either.



Ayup, they are.

http://i.imgur.com/Mf07Amz.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/ElK10Ao.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/qp0Wfnh.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Bkkk6pe.jpg



That's not what we were even comparing there. We were talking about them being bullet-proof but if you want to use another red herring that's fine.

Danny's best durability feat is surviving an explosion that would have destroyed Kun-Lun without a scratch. As I already noted. So, does Raoh have anything along the lines of this?

The Immortal Iron Fist #14

http://imgur.com/a/Cu8iX

Oh, and of course there was absorbing Radion's attacks which were progressively growing to be in the "hundreds of megatons of tnt." Which also failed to kill Danny. Who absorbed the brunt of them.

Iron Fist v1 #4

https://i.imgur.com/P11YBd7.jpg



Not a single one of yours have passed for anything approaching decent when compared to what I am used to. You are trying way too hard here to shoot for Kenshiro's victory. Going so far as to undermine what the other side is capable of.



Despite having every one of Iron Fist's appearances on my laptop? That I can grab at my leisure?

That's cute but not true.



Just accept that Kenshiro is getting tap dance lessons tonight, and his face is the dance floor.

Sharivan
Originally posted by RealityWarper
The feat about Danny jumping hasn't charged so I will post it here:

http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2016/33/1471293591-10.jpg

Wow !

And the feat of reaching his head is just ridiculous as the Dragon attacked Danny's feets and then Danny put weigth on Dragon's head to land on his neck...

He barely jumped two meters high if I'm highballing, that's not even close to Kenshiro whom can jump 9 m high without amping himself.

Impressive really ! big grin

As I already rebuked here:

Originally posted by Sharivan


Nope, by angular scaling when Danny jumped away from the dragon he cleared a good dozen meters.

http://i.imgur.com/2kjsO4U.jpg

Notice how far away he is from the dragon's head in contrast to before? That's way more than nine meters. As that dragon was huge but it's head looks tiny now because of the distance crossed.



Neither is Kenshiro's speed if the databook is to be believed.



Making up more numbers without any explanations. That's definitely more than two meters but that wasn't what impressed me. It was when Danny leaped away from the dragon's breath.

Which by angular scaling would be pretty damn far.

Also, once again where is the citation for the databook saying this was Kenshiro not using any touki? I have yet to see that evidence.

I imagine that I never will.


I already covered this.



Not really, no.

There is also the instance where Daniel Rand punches through a helicopter by leaping towards it from the side of a skyscraper. As he fights a bunch of ninjas amidst free fall.

Iron Fist: TLW #1

http://i.imgur.com/T4O2wy9.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/yWDgHjD.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/aWlxCn9.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/YhIuwyF.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/DsZ7WJI.jpg

He leaped all the way from the skyscraper, through the helicopter, and made it back in one piece.



Never argued as such. I was saying the databook painted Kenshiro as such, and still does. I was noting your hypocrisy when you brought that up to say Danny was "peak human" even with chi.

RealityWarper
There is so much PIS in Marvel those days...
Heck... Why isn't IF simply immune to everything as he shrugg off nukes and one-shot anyone...

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11114/111145037/3696572-008.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11114/111145037/3696574-3633333-sparring%2B3.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/60791/2254332-fistvswolverine.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11114/111145037/3696649-3676236-7033479976-32525.jpg

http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2016/34/1471975449-lol1.jpg

http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2016/34/1471975440-lol2.jpg

http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2016/34/1471975402-lol3.jpg

carver9
Love Iron fist and looking at the scans, he is a beast but he does not stand a chance against Ken. The fight would be over as soon as the bell ring. Nothing against Iron, Ken is just on another level. FAR above his level in every single category. You might as well say Iron fist could beat Kids Goku as well if he can beat Ken.

Sharivan
Originally posted by Sharivan
Immortal Iron Fist #23

http://s6d1.turboimg.net/t1/29373418_Immortal_Iron_Fist_023-008.jpg http://s6d1.turboimg.net/t1/29373419_Immortal_Iron_Fist_023-009.jpg http://s6d1.turboimg.net/t1/29373420_Immortal_Iron_Fist_023-010.jpg http://s6d1.turboimg.net/t1/29373421_Immortal_Iron_Fist_023-011.jpg

Dodging four different bullets at once, and does so in slow motion so we can see the bullets in mid-air.

Power Man & Iron Fist #89

https://i.imgur.com/ciYjoBD.jpg

Deflecting dozens of flechettes at once, and creating numerous afterimages.

Power Man & Iron Fist #50

https://i.imgur.com/apaLQqQ.jpg


Catching a bullet with bare hands.

Immortal Iron Fist Annual

https://i.imgur.com/mzHglT3.jpg

He is able to move within the time-frame of a microsecond.

Iron Fist v3 #1

http://imgur.com/a/TiUNn

It only takes him 0.05 seconds to charge and use his Iron Fist.

Power Man & Iron Fist #54

https://i.imgur.com/WOnwAf0.jpg

He is able to easily defeat a giant dragon.

Immortal Weapons #5

http://imgur.com/a/0EXnr

He is able to take down a helicarrier with a single blow.

New Avengers #59

http://imgur.com/a/BHP0F

The collateral damage from his Iron Fist is compared to a hydrogen bomb.

Deadly Hands of Kung Fu #20

http://imgur.com/a/76zEa

He is able to murder Zhu-Rong, a God of Fire and Universal Order in a single punch.

Iron Fist: ILW #11

https://i.imgur.com/5ckAEMV.jpg

Originally posted by Sharivan
Speaking of that.

Immortal Iron Fist #14

http://s6d2.turboimg.net/t1/29373441_The_Immortal_Iron_Fist_014-008.jpg http://s6d2.turboimg.net/t1/29373442_The_Immortal_Iron_Fist_014-009.jpg http://s6d2.turboimg.net/t1/29373443_The_Immortal_Iron_Fist_014-010.jpg http://s6d2.turboimg.net/t1/29373444_The_Immortal_Iron_Fist_014-011.jpg




I only brought those up because that's precisely what would happen if Iron Fist was intent on actually murdering them, and had no moral compulsions stopping him.

Sharivan
Originally posted by Sharivan
Also, Danny is able to trick Daredevil's senses.

Power Man & Iron Fist #77

https://i.imgur.com/numK5XD.jpg

He is able to heal himself without even trying now. He doesn't even have to be conscious in order to do it.

Immortal Iron Fist #8

https://i.imgur.com/pwsbIkH.jpg

Originally posted by Sharivan
There is also the instance where Daniel Rand punches through a helicopter by leaping towards it from the side of a skyscraper. As he fights a bunch of ninjas amidst free fall.

Iron Fist: TLW #1

http://i.imgur.com/T4O2wy9.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/yWDgHjD.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/aWlxCn9.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/YhIuwyF.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/JVnp7lp.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/DsZ7WJI.jpg

He leaped all the way from the skyscraper, through the helicopter, and made it back in one piece.

He catches a bullet here after Brenda tries to kill herself. Do keep in mind since the gun was right next to her head? That means the timeframe he had to cross the distance had to be incredibly tiny.

Iron Fist: The Living Weapon #12

http://imgur.com/a/Fup9N

Originally posted by Sharivan
You do recall that time Danny defeated Davos without his chi? When Davos had it, and when he had the accumulated knowledge of every Iron Fist that died in the Anomaly Gem? Simply by being that much of a better martial artist?

Iron Fist v2 #2

http://s6d5.turboimg.net/t1/29374109_Iron_Fist_MS1996_02_p18.jpg http://s6d5.turboimg.net/t1/29374110_Iron_Fist_MS1996_02_p19.jpg http://s6d5.turboimg.net/t1/29374111_Iron_Fist_MS1996_02_p20.jpg http://s6d5.turboimg.net/t1/29374112_Iron_Fist_MS1996_02_p21.jpg http://s6d5.turboimg.net/t1/29374113_Iron_Fist_MS1996_02_p22.jpg http://s6d5.turboimg.net/t1/29374114_Iron_Fist_MS1996_02_p23.jpg http://s6d5.turboimg.net/t1/29374115_Iron_Fist_MS1996_02_p24.jpg http://s6d5.turboimg.net/t1/29374116_Iron_Fist_MS1996_02_p25.jpg

carver9
I seen those. He isnt on Ken level though. Fist is a beast but his opponents need to be Spiderman, Captain America and Wolverine; not Ken.

Sharivan
Originally posted by Sharivan
I'll just repeat what I said earlier.

I am referring to Iron Fist being able to transform back into a human being (sort of) after being reduced to a ghost, and giving said ghost substance again after bridging the dimensional gap in the afterlife.

Deadly Hands of Kung Fu #23

http://i.imgur.com/fWatTco.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/lcVDjfn.jpg

Deadly Hands of Kung Fu #24

http://i.imgur.com/Bhcpmeo.png
http://i.imgur.com/xfpa0vX.jpg

It's only after this that he makes a complete resurrection though.

http://i.imgur.com/Ypzaeec.jpg

So, it's more like using his ghost to substitute his body.

As for the explosion it would be the Door itself exploding not Danny. So, how exactly is the Door going to contain itself?

There's nothing going to be transported if Danny is already using chi. Assuming that he starts the fight off charging his Iron Fist or something. That or a chi blast. Maybe fireballs. Who knows.

If the Door manages to send him away before he can use chi maybe it can but otherwise the Door itself would be unstable.

RealityWarper
Originally posted by carver9
I seen those. He isnt on Ken level though. Fist is a beast but his opponents need to be Spiderman, Captain America and Wolverine; not Ken.

Clearly.

I don't get why there is this constant spamming of scans.

There is stuff to tell for every one of them the way they are interpreted in this very thread.

Sharivan
Originally posted by RealityWarper
Clearly.

If you live on an alien world where reasoning isn't the same as ours, sure.



You dug this up days after it was finished, and didn't address any of my posts. Then proceeded to spam a bunch of extra large scans yourself.

You bleeding hypocrite.



Which I already rebuked, and now I provided even more context that clarifies that Daniel Rand was actually dead when he was turned into a ghost.

None of your astral projection nonsense. Which didn't hold any water to begin with because astral projection was never mentioned. Only ghosts, the afterlife, and resurrection. Heck, in the same story-line Daniel Rand's mother is brought back to life before dying again.

cdtm
Originally posted by Sharivan
If you live on an alien world where reasoning isn't the same as ours, sure.



You dug this up days after it was finished, and didn't address any of my posts. Then proceeded to spam a bunch of extra large scans yourself.

You bleeding hypocrite.



Which I already rebuked, and now I provided even more context that clarifies that Daniel Rand was actually dead when he was turned into a ghost.

None of your astral projection nonsense. Which didn't hold any water to begin with because astral projection was never mentioned. Only ghosts, the afterlife, and resurrection. Heck, in the same story-line Daniel Rand's mother is brought back to life before dying again.

You talking about the Claremont story in Deadly Hands?

Yeah, Danny was dead. Anyone who read the story knows him being killed was kind of an important plot element, to chase after a hell lord that can switch freely between the living and dead worlds..

The plan backfired when the warrior mage hell lord simply fled from the afterlife to the living world, making him untouchable to spirits. And Danny was desperate enough to channel the Iron Fist and try to bridge back into the world of the living. Which he did, complete with a new body and clothes.

It took every ounce of energy and concentration he had, and it was only a temporary state, but it's still a tremendous feat. (As for why the hell lord didn't simply flee back to hell, he probably didn't know this had a time limit on it, or couldn't be repeated indefinately.)

Sharivan
Originally posted by cdtm
You talking about the Claremont story in Deadly Hands?

Yeah, Danny was dead. Anyone who read the story knows him being killed was kind of an important plot element, to chase after a hell lord that can switch freely between the living and dead worlds..

The plan backfired when the warrior mage hell lord simply fled from the afterlife to the living world, making him untouchable to spirits. And Danny was desperate enough to channel the Iron Fist and try to bridge back into the world of the living. Which he did, complete with a new body and clothes.

It took every ounce of energy and concentration he had, and it was only a temporary state, but it's still a tremendous feat. (As for why the hell lord didn't simply flee back to hell, he probably didn't know this had a time limit on it, or couldn't be repeated indefinately.)

Yeah, that's the one.

RealityWarper
Originally posted by cdtm
You talking about the Claremont story in Deadly Hands?

Yeah, Danny was dead. Anyone who read the story knows him being killed was kind of an important plot element, to chase after a hell lord that can switch freely between the living and dead worlds..


Switching between two dimensions.




I'm sorry but it looks like Danny is simply trapped in another plane of existence instead of dead which explain why he can return:

http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2016/34/1471985283-dhkf-24-11.jpg

That's exactly the same thing than moving from the Astral Plane to ours and vice-versa:

http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2016/34/1471985579-astral-plane1.jpg

http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2016/34/1471985589-astral-plane2.jpg

The Immortal Weapons aren't immortal at all.

cdtm
He was killed from behind, on panel, by Lancelot. Not dimension lost, most definately dead.

RealityWarper
Originally posted by cdtm
He was killed from behind, on panel, by Lancelot. Not dimension lost, most definately dead.

Nope.

Dasha Khan blasted him with the Soulgem, switching Danny from one Dimension to another.

cdtm
You own scan says "And return the dead... to life."

Plus, Danny was run through by a sword. Master Khan had nothing to do with it.

RealityWarper
Originally posted by cdtm
You own scan says "And return the dead... to life."

Plus, Danny was run through by a sword. Master Khan had nothing to do with it.

Sorry if I didn't make myself clear.

I'm refering to Dasha Khan here and not Master Khan.

It's in Deadly Hands of Kung-Fu #23 and he uses the Soulgem to switch Danny from one plane to another.

He uses the gem to change the aspect of New York just after, it's hardly a kill but more a Dimensional Banishment.


http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2016/34/1471987600-dhkf2323.jpg

http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2016/34/1471987601-dhkf2324.jpg

cdtm
Edit: Hang on.

Damned mobile devices..

Sharivan
Originally posted by RealityWarper
Switching between two dimensions.

Nope, he is quite clearly dead.

I'll just repeat what I said earlier.

Once again.

I am referring to Iron Fist being able to transform back into a human being (sort of) after being reduced to a ghost, and giving said ghost substance again after bridging the dimensional gap in the afterlife.

Deadly Hands of Kung Fu #23

http://i.imgur.com/fWatTco.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/lcVDjfn.jpg

Deadly Hands of Kung Fu #24

http://i.imgur.com/Bhcpmeo.png
http://i.imgur.com/xfpa0vX.jpg

It's only after this that he makes a complete resurrection though.

http://i.imgur.com/Ypzaeec.jpg

So, it's more like using his ghost to substitute his body.



No, you're omitting context in the very scan that you cut up here. It even freaking notes "and bring what's dead back to life" next to the very inner monologue bubble that you circled. How can you miss that?

Then there is this. Where it's once again clarified.

http://i.imgur.com/xfqb9Ng.jpg



No, it isn't.

This isn't the astral plane. It's the freaking afterlife. I will circle it for you since apparently your eyesight is very poor.

http://i.imgur.com/5aZ4xRO.jpg



Deadly Hands of Kung Fu #21

http://i.imgur.com/OdNqHno.jpg

Daniel Rand was dead, and he bridged the dimensional gap then gave his ghost substance using his chi.

Once again you show how little you even know about this story-line.

cdtm
Thanks. smile

Put up the previous page where they talk about killing him to fight a spirit, if anyone still has doubts.

Sharivan
Originally posted by RealityWarper
Sorry if I didn't make myself clear.

I'm refering to Dasha Khan here and not Master Khan.

It's in Deadly Hands of Kung-Fu #23 and he uses the Soulgem to switch Danny from one plane to another.

He uses the gem to change the aspect of New York just after, it's hardly a kill but more a Dimensional Banishment.


http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2016/34/1471987600-dhkf2323.jpg

http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2016/34/1471987601-dhkf2324.jpg

Nope, you're omitting context here. What happened here is that Daniel Rand was transported to earth. Which is why he was a ghost because he died earlier. What the helllord did was transport them all to a battleground of his choosing. He even says so in the very scan you just stole from me.

Sharivan
Originally posted by cdtm
Thanks. smile

Put up the previous page where they talk about killing him to fight a spirit, if anyone still has doubts.

You're welcome, and I shall.

Deadly Hands of Kung Fu #21

http://i.imgur.com/HKNNPZj.jpg

RealityWarper
The fact is that's completely a story about being trapped in one dimension and switching to another as Danny Rand can't come back from being killed:

http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2016/34/1471989432-deadly-hands-kung-fu-24-18.jpg

http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2016/34/1471989434-deadly-hands-kung-fu-24-19.jpg

0 hope to come back without the Soulgem despite the ability to briefly shift the Dimensional plane.

That's why the Iron Fist kept being butchered with no hope to come back at their 33 years old birthday.

Sharivan
Originally posted by RealityWarper
The fact is that's completely a story about being trapped in one dimension and switching to another as Danny Rand can't come back from being killed:

The fact it's a story about Daniel Rand being murdered, and reduced to a ghost. Then being dragged into earth later where he fights a helllord. At which point he bridges the dimensional gap, and gives his ghost substance so he can fight said helllord.

I made this clear.



I already made it clear that Daniel Rand can bridge the dimensional gap, and give his ghost substance. He did this without the soul gem by using his chi. I already posted all the relevant evidence, and made that clear.

Now read it, and stop feigning ignorance.

RealityWarper
Fine I acknowledge that Bowman killed him in the first place, however:

1) Dasha Khan teleported both to Earth.

2) Danny was bound to the Realm of the Dead and had to switch between the two Dimensions.

3) He has no meaning to do so without being transported by Dasha Khan on Earth in the first place.

4) He has no meaning to stay "alive" without the use of the Soulgem

Daniel Rand when dead stay dead.

The context is quite clear here.

That's not a feat he can replicate if he is killed so using him as an argument in a battle thread is completely fishy.

Here Danny Rand shitting in his pants in fear of Death and calling his friends to save him:

http://image.noelshack.com/minis/2016/34/1471991316-iron-fist-019.png

http://image.noelshack.com/minis/2016/34/1471991318-iron-fist-020.png

http://image.noelshack.com/minis/2016/34/1471991524-iron-fist-007.png

http://image.noelshack.com/minis/2016/34/1471991516-iron-fist-008.png

http://image.noelshack.com/minis/2016/34/1471991516-iron-fist-009.png

http://image.noelshack.com/minis/2016/34/1471991517-iron-fist-010.png

http://image.noelshack.com/minis/2016/34/1471991507-iron-fist-011.png

http://image.noelshack.com/minis/2016/34/1471991537-iron-fist-012-013.png

http://image.noelshack.com/minis/2016/34/1471991533-iron-fist-014.png

I guess that the minion whom attacked Iron Fist does Nuke-level punches but only against Danny, right ? LOL

RealityWarper
I wonder if someone would Battlezone me.

Kenshiro (HNK or SNK, whatever) against Iron Fist (Danny Rand).

Sounds fair ?

Sharivan
Originally posted by RealityWarper
Fine I acknowledge that Bowman killed him in the first place, however:

1) Dasha Khan teleported both to Earth.

Which you lied about earlier, and you tried to say Dasha Khan simply transformed him into an astral form.



Yes, but you're missing the part where he gave his ghost substance with his chi. Which gave it a human form.



Yes, he does he specifically bridged the dimensional gap and gave his spirit substance with chi. The reason he did that was because Dasha Khan and Jade were on Earth, and he needed to reach them through the difference of dimensional physics.

Feng-Tu is a realm where a ghost has substance already. Earth is another case entirely where it's formless.

Daniel Rand was already in Feng-Tu when he died that's why he was there to begin with.



As I already made clear he can substitute his body with his ghost, and to further cement this Daniel Rand was already in Feng Tu when he died. So, he was already in the land of the dead. This was before he was murdered.

Deadly Hands of Kung-Fu #21

http://imgur.com/a/C3GeH

He didn't actually move anywhere when he died. So, if he dies on Earth his ghost would remain there rather than in Feng-Tu.



Note what I said above. The reason Daniel Rand was in Feng-Tu was because he went there before he died.



No, it isn't. As I just clarified for you. The only reason Daniel Rand's ghost was in Feng-Tu was because he was already there when he was alive.



No, it isn't as the only reason he was in Feng-Tu to begin with was because he was murdered there. That's why his ghost is already in Feng-Tu when he wakes up.



This is because Daniel Rand only replace his body with his ghost by giving it substance. It's not a true resurrection it's being able to fight on as a spirit. As I already made clear several times.



We have been over this showings over other characters do not supersede individual showings. As the former is incredibly inconsistent, and unreliable in comic books.

RealityWarper
Originally posted by Sharivan
Which you lied about earlier, and you tried to say Dasha Khan simply transformed him into an astral form.



Yes, but you're missing the part where he gave his ghost substance with his chi. Which gave it a human form.



Yes, he does he specifically bridged the dimensional gap and gave his spirit substance with chi. The reason he did that was because Dasha Khan and Jade were on Earth, and he needed to reach them through the difference of dimensional physics.

Feng-Tu is a realm where a ghost has substance already. Earth is another case entirely where it's formless.

Daniel Rand was already in Feng-Tu when he died that's why he was there to begin with.



As I already made clear he can substitute his body with his ghost, and to further cement this Daniel Rand was already in Feng Tu when he died. So, he was already in the land of the dead. This was before he was murdered.

Deadly Hands of Kung-Fu #21

http://imgur.com/a/C3GeH

He didn't actually move anywhere when he died. So, if he dies on Earth his ghost would remain there rather than in Feng-Tu.



Note what I said above. The reason Daniel Rand was in Feng-Tu was because he went there before he died.



No, it isn't. As I just clarified for you. The only reason Daniel Rand's ghost was in Feng-Tu was because he was already there when he was alive.



No, it isn't as the only reason he was in Feng-Tu to begin with was because he was murdered there. That's why his ghost is already in Feng-Tu when he wakes up.



This is because Daniel Rand only replace his body with his ghost by giving it substance. It's not a true resurrection it's being able to fight on as a spirit. As I already made clear several times.



We have been over this showings over other characters do not supersede individual showings. As the former is incredibly inconsistent, and unreliable in comic books.

In order to seal our debate once and for all I propose you to face me in a Battlezone:

Kenshiro Vs Iron Fist.

Sharivan
Originally posted by RealityWarper
In order to seal our debate once and for all I propose you to face me in a Battlezone:

Kenshiro Vs Iron Fist.

After everything? I am freaking exhausted. I have been debating in multiple threads, against multiple people at once. Made typos as a result that are now annoying me. I have spent the last couple of days furious and now I have a headache. This has been no fun at all, and I don't imagine if I take to the battlezone that it will become any more fun.

cdtm
Originally posted by Sharivan
After everything? I am freaking exhausted. I have been debating in multiple threads, against multiple people at once. Made typos as a result that are now annoying me. I have spent the last couple of days furious and now I have a headache. This has been no fun at all, and I don't imagine if I take to the battlezone that it will become any more fun.

Debating Abhi alone would wear most people out.

There's a reason his name keeps coming up whenever people talk "banhammer". wink

RealityWarper
Originally posted by Sharivan
After everything? I am freaking exhausted. I have been debating in multiple threads, against multiple people at once. Made typos as a result that are now annoying me. I have spent the last couple of days furious and now I have a headache. This has been no fun at all, and I don't imagine if I take to the battlezone that it will become any more fun.

I know how it is.

I think that a Battlezone is the perfect opportunity to take our time shaping our arguments and seal the debate once and for all.

This gauntlet as way too much derailed into a Kenshiro Vs Iron Fist thread.

I think it's a good idea for both of us.

What do you think about it ?

abhilegend
Originally posted by cdtm
Debating Abhi alone would wear most people out.

There's a reason his name keeps coming up whenever people talk "banhammer". wink
erm

Sharivan
Originally posted by RealityWarper
I know how it is.

I think that a Battlezone is the perfect opportunity to take our time shaping our arguments and seal the debate once and for all.

This gauntlet as way too much derailed into a Kenshiro Vs Iron Fist thread.

I think it's a good idea for both of us.

What do you think about it ?

I have been debating it for the last couple of days already, and I am already beginning to become sick of it. It's a simple matter of not wanting to. Ignoring that I am still busy with those other threads.

RealityWarper
Originally posted by Sharivan
I have been debating it for the last couple of days already, and I am already beginning to become sick of it. It's a simple matter of not wanting to. Ignoring that I am still busy with those other threads.

We have no obligation to do it right now.

Sharivan
Originally posted by RealityWarper
We have no obligation to do it right now.

I have a feeling I will get banned soon too. Maybe permanently. So, it might not even be possible on top of that.

I may have said something about tieing Abhilegend up, and ****ing him raw.

Also, what I said before about being tired about this discussion and having already discussed it to death.

RealityWarper
Originally posted by Sharivan
I have a feeling I will get banned soon too. Maybe permanently. So, it might not even be possible on top of that.

I may have said something about tieing Abhilegend up, and ****ing him raw.

Also, what I said before about being tired about this discussion and having already discussed it to death.
It's up to you.

RealityWarper
His version of Iron Fist is totally different than the one we can read in the comics.

Shari's Iron Fist is able to:

1) Shrugg-off Nukes: wich weren't and he just passed through a train full of explosives as he was moving as an human-bullet through the train

2) One-shot anyone because he sunk an Hellcarrier that he didn't destroy.

3) Absorb the Chi of anyone despite the story making it clear that Davos & Danny absorbs the Chi from Shou-Lao thanks to the Scar on their chest, which originate from Shou-Lao's trial, and they can steal it to each other only via those marks and not to everyone

4) Become a Ghost when he dies and come back to life despite the story making it clear that Danny died in another dimension then was brought on Earth via the Soulgem, then temporarily solidified his form, then needed the Soulgem to come back to life or finally disappear.

5) Is faster than anyone because he limbo dodged a few bullets.

6) Fight faster than anyone because he hit multiple times a giant as active as a brick wall whom even let him do his complete Kung-Fu dance without reacting at all, let him his foot which took him off-balance and hit again and again in the same situation.

In the end, we have someone whom manifest an extreme fanboyism for the character and can't believe his favourite hero to lose to anyone on a battle forum.

LordofBrooklyn
What series are the Raoh scans from?

I love the art!

RealityWarper
Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
What series are the Raoh scans from?

I love the art!

Legend of Raoh

LordofBrooklyn
Originally posted by RealityWarper
Legend of Raoh

This is where, Raoh, is a hero, correct?

RealityWarper
Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
This is where, Raoh, is a hero, correct?

A conqueror.

The point of the manga is to understand Raoh's motives.

carver9
Originally posted by carver9
Some of these people never punched that fast or done half of the things Ken has done with his speed.


As for the thread, Ken clears this.

RealityWarper
UNSKILLED SNAIL

http://zupimages.net/up/17/11/ikmk.jpg


EXTREMELY FAST AND SKILLED KILLING MACHINE

http://zupimages.net/up/17/11/ki0a.jpg

KENSHIRO STOMPS IRON SNAIL EFFORTLESSLY

RealityWarper
Originally posted by carver9
Some of these people never punched that fast or done half of the things Ken has done with his speed.


As for the thread, Ken clears this.

True. Iron Fist is the least relevant opponent in that thread. Kenshiro stomps with ease.

RealityWarper
Originally posted by cdtm
That was before I saw the back and forth about Iron Fist.

Now I'm torn. Hard to vote against The Fist...

Did you read the Living Weapon series? A lot of impressive feats in that series. Walking away from getting blasted between K'un L'un and Earth's dimensional barrier without a scratch alone.. Came in like a missile, and got up like nothing happened.

Do you want a Battlezone with me then ?

I want to end the debate once and for all.

krisblaze
Herc and Hulk are too tall an order methinks.

Classic NES
Stops at Thing or Herc maybe? He definitely owns danny though.

RealityWarper
Originally posted by Classic NES
Stops at Thing or Herc maybe? He definitely owns danny though.

Why would he stop at Thing or Herc ?

Classic NES
Originally posted by RealityWarper
Why would he stop at Thing or Herc ?

Too strong.

RealityWarper
Originally posted by Classic NES
Too strong.

That's not really a lifting contest ^^

Classic NES
Originally posted by RealityWarper
That's not really a lifting contest ^^

Someone who can lift billions of tons would rip you apart if he grabbed you.

RealityWarper
Originally posted by Classic NES
Someone who can lift billions of tons would rip you apart if he grabbed you.

That's right.

I doubt that they can grab him in the first place, and he isn't physically weak neither.

Classic NES
Originally posted by RealityWarper
That's right.

I doubt that they can grab him in the first place, and he isn't physically weak neither.

He's physically inferior to any brick from marvel. Even luke cage can grab him and he can't dodge forever. He get's boned.

iceman24567
Stops at Herc for sure

RealityWarper
Originally posted by Classic NES
He's physically inferior to any brick from marvel. Even luke cage can grab him and he can't dodge forever. He get's boned.

Have you read this manga at all ?

Kenshiro can lift 300 tons boulders effortlessly.

Please prove that Luke Cage can grab him.

I suppose that he will not have to dodge Luke forever once his head has exploded.

Classic NES
Originally posted by RealityWarper
Have you read this manga at all ?

Kenshiro can lift 300 tons boulders effortlessly.

Please prove that Luke Cage can grab him.

I suppose that he will not have to dodge Luke forever once his head has exploded.

His best feat is lifting a 300 ton boulder something any brick from Marvel could do. Unless your argument is he dodges forever then he loses. The only shot he has of evading is Musuo Tensei and seeing how Kaioh can disrupt his Musuo Tensei with Anryu Tenha then even a simple thunder clap would stop it. He gets stomped.

carver9
Don't know why you think Luke is even a challenge to Ken.

Classic NES
Originally posted by carver9
Don't know why you think Luke is even a challenge to Ken.

Kenshiro couldn't even hurt Mr. Heart because his fat was too thick to reach his pressure point. He needed to blow away his blubber before he could kill him, now unless you're telling me that Mr. Hearts fat is tougher than Cages skin. Kenshiro would lose. You and Warper tend to wank Anime characters alot no offense.

iceman24567
Originally posted by Classic NES
Kenshiro couldn't even hurt Mr. Heart because his fat was too thick to reach his pressure point. He needed to blow away his blubber before he could kill him, now unless you're telling me that Mr. Hearts fat is tougher than Cages skin. Kenshiro would lose. You and Warper tend to wank Anime characters alot no offense. Yup mostly its the speed arguement as if they are Flash level

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Classic NES
Kenshiro couldn't even hurt Mr. Heart because his fat was too thick to reach his pressure point. He needed to blow away his blubber before he could kill him, now unless you're telling me that Mr. Hearts fat is tougher than Cages skin. Kenshiro would lose. You and Warper tend to wank Anime characters alot no offense.

https://static2.comicvine.com/uploads/original/1/19539/5674180-luke+cage.jpg

Classic NES
Originally posted by iceman24567
Yup mostly its the speed arguement as if they are Flash level

They're not, rifles and firearms don't exist in 199X. So, I have no idea where this nonsense comes from minus Kenshiro vs Uighur, where the later was using a whip and Kenshiro caught it and tied it in a neat bow before he could notice. That's honestly it.

Classic NES
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
https://static2.comicvine.com/uploads/original/1/19539/5674180-luke+cage.jpg

He's not K.O.ed not that it matters. Kenshiro's pressure points work differently. So, false equivalency and PIS.

DarkSaint85
Point was that you don't need to blast past his skin to get to his nerve points.

RealityWarper
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
https://static2.comicvine.com/uploads/original/1/19539/5674180-luke+cage.jpg

You preceded me on this.

Originally posted by Classic NES
He's not K.O.ed not that it matters. Kenshiro's pressure points work differently. So, false equivalency and PIS.

They works on a superior level actually.

He just need to touch the point to inject Ki in it, or not touch the pressure-points at all.


http://zupimages.net/up/17/10/xvyb.jpg


As for having a steel body...



http://www.zupimages.net/up/17/11/sj5o.png





http://www.zupimages.net/up/17/11/1h6h.png



http://www.zupimages.net/up/17/11/jfwq.png




http://www.zupimages.net/up/17/11/wztc.png

Classic NES
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Point was that you don't need to blast past his skin to get to his nerve points.

It doesn't even make any sense. You honestly think T'Challa applying pressure with his fingers and hitting Cage in the knee to knock down Cage. Is consistent when the guy can take point blank explosions to the face? That's nonsense.

Classic NES
Originally posted by RealityWarper
-snip-

I was waiting for this. Boss Fangs armor made him immune to Kenshiro attacks, he had to shut it down first with a pressure point to kill him. Thanks for proving my point. Kenshiro can't kill someone with armor or reasonably tough skin.

Originally posted by RealityWarper

He just need to touch the point to inject Ki in it, or not touch the pressure-points at all.

He can't inject Toki through fat or armor.

RealityWarper
Originally posted by Classic NES
I was waiting for this. Boss Fangs armor made him immune to Kenshiro attacks, he had to shut it down first with a pressure point to kill him. Thanks for proving my point. Kenshiro can't kill someone with armor or reasonably tough skin.

This doesn't makes him immune to anything.

He believed that he was protected against Kenshiro's techniques so Kenshiro toyed with him.

He hit his pressure-points and changed his muscles in lard.

That's a long time before Kenshiro meet Raoh and begin to use his Touki No Aura in combat.


Before talking, educate yourself about the characters.

There is a big difference in technique between the beginning and the end of the series.




He doesn't need to touch the pressure points at all.


http://zupimages.net/up/17/11/ipkp.jpg

If having an armour was the ultimate way to protect against the Hokuto Shinken all of those characters would use one against the HSK masters but nope. That's useless.

Classic NES
Originally posted by RealityWarper
This doesn't makes him immune to anything.

He believed that he was protected against Kenshiro's techniques so Kenshiro toyed with him.

He hit his pressure-points and changed his muscles in lard.

Nope, he couldn't hurt him while he was armored. He had to shut down the armor first. Doesn't matter what you're interpretation is, the scans and the fight say otherwise.



Originally posted by RealityWarper

That's a long time before Kenshiro meet Raoh and begin to use his Touki No Aura in combat.


Before talking, educate yourself about the characters.

There is a big difference in technique between the beginning and the end of the series.

Touki is what the energy is called in Hokuto No Ken. Its just a name convention, that's it.



Originally posted by RealityWarper

He doesn't need to touch the pressure points at all.


http://zupimages.net/up/17/11/ipkp.jpg

If having an armor was the ultimate way to protect against the Hokuto Shinken all of those characters would use one against the HSK masters but nope. That's useless.

Nice circular logic, they don't use armor to defend themselves, therefore, armor doesn't work. What an idiot lol. Armor varies in strength. Average bricks body is far more durable than body armor. Furthermore, Kenshiro emits Ki when he strikes too. There's no difference between a strike where his skin makes contact and doesn't when it comes to Ki. In Hnk Kenshiro's punches aren't normally heavy because he's using Ki to kill you. Take your own advice fam.

RealityWarper
Originally posted by Classic NES
Nope, he couldn't hurt him while he was armored. He had to shut down the armor first. Doesn't matter what you're interpretation is, the scans and the fight say otherwise.

Sure. Kenshiro can destroy steel casually but, by your logic, he can't destroy this guy whom get steel-like durability.

Nice logic.

Read the series. That could help you make a valuable argument for once.

At any moment, Kenshiro said that he couldn't beat this guy.

He doesn't even bother using the Tenryu Kyokuho against him to amp his overall power which means that Kiba Daio isn't even an annoyance to him.





Read again with translations:


"That's a long time before Kenshiro meet Raoh and begin to use his Touki No Aura in combat."

Translation:

Ken beat Kiba Daio at a moment in the series he didn't possess a Ki-aura as he acquired it against Raoh.


The fight against Kiba Daioh was chronologically BEFORE the fight against Raoh.



"Before talking, educate yourself about the characters."

Translation:

Since the beginning you are making empty statements or misinterpret the feats on panel, trying to give them the meaning that you want to see.


"There is a big difference in technique between the beginning and the end of the series."

Kenshiro's techniques evolves a lot throughout the series.

You are taking examples at the beginning of the series completely out-of-context which ruins the credibility or your argumentory.





I've said that if that was the best way to protect against Hokuto Shinken all characters would use it.

It's not actually.

Juza had an armor and destroyed it before his fight against Raoh because it was pointless.

Kaioh had one and it was only useful to keep his Matouki No Aura from pouring away.




You seems to lack understanding of the series and I'm the idiot. Ok.

Nice try pal but your insults are laughable compared to the ludicrous content of your claims.



Which doesn't matter.

It was already proven that the durability is pointless against the Hokuto Shinken.

The characters that you are trying to defend have no way to defend against Kenshiro making their own life force destroying themselves.



There is one difference which is the physical contact.

I already proved twice that Kenshiro just needs to expand his Ki-energy a bit to make people implode which no characters in this thread have a defence against. Too bad.





He does light attack because damaging the outside is pointless for him.

He just needs to inject Ki in the pressure-points and his opponents destroys themselves from the inside.




Sure.

You didn't understand a single point in the proper context.

Try again.

carver9
Originally posted by Classic NES
Kenshiro couldn't even hurt Mr. Heart because his fat was too thick to reach his pressure point. He needed to blow away his blubber before he could kill him, now unless you're telling me that Mr. Hearts fat is tougher than Cages skin. Kenshiro would lose. You and Warper tend to wank Anime characters alot no offense.

Then that's a ft for Mr. Fat, not a downplay for Ken.

RealityWarper
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Point was that you don't need to blast past his skin to get to his nerve points.

Technically, Kenshiro could use mundane Karate / Kung Fu pressure-point strikes but his own techniques are a lot more deadly because he directly mess-up the life force of the target.

Nanto techniques are alike Katana techniques, they cut the enemies through the lines of the pressure-points like regular Katana strikes.

RealityWarper
I notice that I didn't answer a part of your comment.


Originally posted by Classic NES
His best feat is lifting a 300 ton boulder something any brick from Marvel could do.

Effortlessly.

You said that he is physically inferior which isn't true then.

Your comment put him on par with the Marvel bricks as you said that "any brick in the Marvel Universe can do"...

But that's still not true because all of the bricks doesn't lift 300 tons effortlessly...



He can dodge every attacks they can launch at him easily and kill them without trying.





You are making several false equivalencies.

The Anryu Tenha didn't disrupt the Muso Tensei, it made Kenshiro lost his concentration on his technique because of the Space sickness due to the weightless space.

Kenshiro completely ignored the effect of the Anryu Tenha the second time they fought, and could have used the Muso Tensei without problem, so your argument is null and void.


A Thunderclap is using the force of the clap to create a schockwave... This has really nothing to do with the Anryu Tenha...

The Muso Tensei is an auto-win here: They can't touch Kenshiro and he can fully use all of his abilities, that makes this thread a mismatch in Kenshiro's favour... All at the same time indeed.



http://zupimages.net/up/17/12/g1bw.jpg

psycho gundam
Originally posted by Classic NES
I was waiting for this. Boss Fangs armor made him immune to Kenshiro attacks, he had to shut it down first with a pressure point to kill him. Thanks for proving my point. Kenshiro can't kill someone with armor or reasonably tough skin. Raoh later oneshotted that guy casually

RealityWarper
Originally posted by psycho gundam
Raoh later oneshotted that guy casually

It's in the movie but every filler from the movies or the series are as canon as the rest about the characters abilities.

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