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What would happen if a real zombie apocolypse happened caused by a virus?


Scenario 1:
The virus just started spreading turning infected people into zombie like creatures

1. How would people react
2. Would certain cities get bombed by orders from government?
3. Will people in quarantine areas get killed regardless if infected or not?
4. The virus is not stopped , will it turn out like the series "walking dead"
5. What would you do during this?

Assuming they're the slow moving zombies and not 28 Days Later style fast zombies that are experts at Parkour I would think that anyone who survived the initial panic would be able to make it.

I always found it silly in zombie fiction where official militaries and police get wiped out but survivors with improvised weapons take out entire hordes solo.

I find your face silly.

Lets get silly. No homo.

It'd likely be contained and dealt with fairly early, not like the movies.

Of course if the zombies were runners they'd be a bit more dangerous, but still, would be dealt with fairly well, I think.

The only way I can see a zombie epidemic growing to apocalyptic proportions is if it occurred in multiple areas of the earth at once.

Originally posted by BackFire
It'd likely be contained and dealt with fairly early, not like the movies.

Of course if the zombies were runners they'd be a bit more dangerous, but still, would be dealt with fairly well, I think.

The only way I can see a zombie epidemic growing to apocalyptic proportions is if it occurred in multiple areas of the earth at once.
I saw a study recently (not sure how they tested it) where the verdict was that even slow moving zombies (if allowed to get a head start and infect a few million people before it becomes common knowledge) would take over the world way faster than you'd think.

It was on BBC news and again I don't know where they got this from.

I think there would have to be intentional human spreading of it for it to become apocalyptic. Like, a rogue nation using the virus as a biological weapon.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I saw a study recently (not sure how they tested it) where the verdict was that even slow moving zombies (if allowed to get a head start and infect a few million people before it becomes common knowledge) would take over the world way faster than you'd think.

It was on BBC news and again I don't know where they got this from.

I think there would have to be intentional human spreading of it for it to become apocalyptic. Like, a rogue nation using the virus as a biological weapon. There's a book about that.

Idea for a script: zombie pandemic begins in Syria, no one notices because people are killing each other already and foreign media is restricted and it doesn't become publicly known until the zombies have already overrun Israel, Lebanon, Jordan, and Eastern Turkey.
Originally posted by Mindset
There's a book about that.
World War Z? I don't recall the weapon aspect.

You talking about something else?

Not happening, it would be contained quickly in most parts of the world.

Only one that made a sense from a reality POV was '28 Days Later' due to transmission/infection being almost instant. But those weren't zombies.

If it is a scenario like Walking Dead where its the Plague that destroys humanity first and then the dead get up and start walking around that is IMO would be the most plausible wa for it to be a true EOTW event.
Cause a good pathogen outbreak could very belivable kill off 90% of the populace. And that weould include the military and other armed forces.
But I would still think that after the inetioal Brown Trousers Opening events calm down people would be able to pull their shit together fortiyf and make plans and start dealing with the brain dead walkers.
Cause lets face it.
Zombies don't plan,and don't have barely any survival instinct.
They don't cooperate with each other even.
We could devise tactics to take them out..
At least here in Rednek Every bodys armed and we don't put up with bullshit Red States we could do this.
Not so sure about those pussy blue states thou..yeah you guys go down when you try to set up a Zombie Peace Treaty Signing ...which would turn into a buffett.

No it's not.

The thing you linked to was basically a light hearted PSA, preparing for a "zombie apocalypse" in ways that also prepare you for real disasters.

It's fun to joke about a zombie apocalypse, because it's impossible.

Seriously?



firewood ny
firewood ct
firewood Westchester

Originally posted by charlie29
No it's not.

The thing you linked to was basically a light hearted PSA, preparing for a "zombie apocalypse" in ways that also prepare you for real disasters.

It's fun to joke about a zombie apocalypse, because it's impossible.

Seriously?



firewood ny
firewood ct
firewood Westchester Its not impossible.

It might not be impossible, but I'm willing to bet that thousands of men (and women) under thirty have already intricately planned how they would survive a zombie apocalypse...

Humans would survive imo.

Originally posted by -Pr-
It might not be impossible, but I'm willing to bet that thousands of men (and women) under thirty have already intricately planned how they would survive a zombie apocalypse...

Humans would survive imo.

http://mikeresponts.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/charlton-heaston-guns-2.jpg

http://aberrospecus.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/zombiesbreakglass.jpg?w=300&h=195

Originally posted by -Pr-
It might not be impossible, but I'm willing to bet that thousands of men (and women) under thirty have already intricately planned how they would survive a zombie apocalypse...

Humans would survive imo.

http://mikeresponts.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/charlton-heaston-guns-2.jpg

My favorite thing about a zombie apocalypse is hearing people I know start spew forth incoming intel regarding how prepared they'll be, survive wave after wave, live to be a hundred years old, when we all know most of us would shit ourselves sideways the minute our family starts droppin' like flies. The mo'fos who think they're elite with their ammunition and lack of feeling will eventually run out of supplies, and so on.

I'd probably head up north, where it's cold, then wait it out, if not, shambling around eating brains is basically the same shit I do when I'm alive, just replace brains with tacos, a fetus, or what you guys call food.

Originally posted by Robtard
Only one that made a sense from a reality POV was '28 Days Later' due to transmission/infection being almost instant. But those weren't zombies.

Screw the writer/director's opinion: they were zombies. He can protest all he wants but his movies are even classified in the "zombie" genre.

For me, it's like Stephanie Meyer writing in that the werewolves in Twilight are not "real" werewolves. Okay...cool...but not really.




Regardless, 28 days later zombies are the most likely.

A mutated/weaponized form of Rabies that had incubation period of less than 24 hours before hydrophobia set in would be a very good candidate for causing the zombie apocalypse. If it could be slightly altered to cause the "symptom" stage to last two to three weeks, then we'd have ourselves a very similar scenario to 28 days later. Some would exhibit hypoactivity and others hyperactivity: both of which would come with delirium.

We are not widely vaccinated from Rabies so it would quickly spread (assuming it is altered as I described).

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I saw a study recently (not sure how they tested it) where the verdict was that even slow moving zombies (if allowed to get a head start and infect a few million people before it becomes common knowledge) would take over the world way faster than you'd think.

It was on BBC news and again I don't know where they got this from.

I think there would have to be intentional human spreading of it for it to become apocalyptic. Like, a rogue nation using the virus as a biological weapon.

Possible. Million infected could cause havoc.

I think Backfire hit a nail on the head. Also, today with internet and all kinds of modes of communication it would be unlikely that it would get unnoticed for so long that a million people get infected.

I agree with BF, though...I think it would get dealt with really quickly.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Screw the writer/director's opinion: they were zombies. He can protest all he wants but his movies are even classified in the "zombie" genre.

For me, it's like Stephanie Meyer writing in that the werewolves in Twilight are not "real" werewolves. Okay...cool...but not really.




Regardless, 28 days later zombies are the most likely.

A mutated/weaponized form of Rabies that had incubation period of less than 24 hours before hydrophobia set in would be a very good candidate for causing the zombie apocalypse. If it could be slightly altered to cause the "symptom" stage to last two to three weeks, then we'd have ourselves a very similar scenario to 28 days later. Some would exhibit hypoactivity and others hyperactivity: both of which would come with delirium.

We are not widely vaccinated from Rabies so it would quickly spread (assuming it is altered as I described).

They weren't zombies from either the hypnotized/drugged or undead/living dead sense.

THEY WERE LIVING HUMANS INFECTED WITH A VIRUS. Might as well call Magic Johnson a zombie.

if it started out in densly populated india cities or china cities it would spread very quick

Originally posted by Scythe
My favorite thing about a zombie apocalypse is hearing people I know start spew forth incoming intel regarding how prepared they'll be, survive wave after wave, live to be a hundred years old, when we all know most of us would shit ourselves sideways the minute our family starts droppin' like flies. The mo'fos who think they're elite with their ammunition and lack of feeling will eventually run out of supplies, and so on.

I'd probably head up north, where it's cold, then wait it out, if not, shambling around eating brains is basically the same shit I do when I'm alive, just replace brains with tacos, a fetus, or what you guys call food.

Im with you on that one man, Although, i think the animal instinct would come out to, survive. Simply put..healthly fit and intelligent people survive everyone else is food. The only in betweens is those top dogs whom choose to help the fat stupid dregs of society. I say...,let it all burn and we can start over in a a utopia of peace love and health.

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
if it started out in densly populated india cities or china cities it would spread very quick On the plus side, if it started in China or India we can stop worrying about overpopulation. I'm sure those governments would nuke their countries even before we would.

Originally posted by Robtard
They weren't zombies from either the hypnotized/drugged or undead/living dead sense.

THEY WERE LIVING HUMANS INFECTED WITH A VIRUS. Might as well call Magic Johnson a zombie.

They were humans who were doomed to death, lost their higher brain functions, and were raging meat bags: zombies.

Suck it.

Originally posted by dadudemon
They were humans who were doomed to death, lost their higher brain functions, and were raging meat bags: zombies.

Suck it.

Are you guys talkin about the 28 days later infected? They aren't really zombies. They're infected people with super rabies. Sooner or later they die from hunger.

Like when Tarantino met Nightmare City director Umberto Lenzi he brought him a bottle of wine and told the waiter to tell him it was his favorite zombie movie. Lenzi jumped out of his chair and screamed THE WEREN'T ZOMBIES THEY WERE INFECTED PEOPLE!!!!

Originally posted by jinXed by JaNx
Im with you on that one man, Although, i think the animal instinct would come out to, survive. Simply put..healthly fit and intelligent people survive everyone else is food. The only in betweens is those top dogs whom choose to help the fat stupid dregs of society. I say...,let it all burn and we can start over in a a utopia of peace love and health.

Hahaha, even then, man. For the strong to survive, that means the strong men would have to find strong women to bring about alpha-dawg kids. With baby-making, love has to come in the picture, love's a weakness in a zombie apocalype. Everyone would have to turn into a rapist. That'd be quite the planet we got ourselves when space zombies arrive and are all: "So, this planet is 50% rapists, 50% zombies?? Everyone back in, we're leaving."

Vroom.

^^That's what my spaceships sound like.

Originally posted by dadudemon
They were humans who were doomed to death, lost their higher brain functions, and were raging meat bags: zombies.

Suck it.

Infected humans, bro.

It'd get stuck in my teeth.

Originally posted by Robtard
Infected humans, bro.

Infected humans with the loss of higher brain functions that bite other humans which turns the bitten ALSO into...drum roll....zombies.


Like I said, he can complain all he wants: they are still zombies.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Infected humans with the loss of higher brain functions that bite other humans which turns the bitten ALSO into...drum roll....zombies.


Like I said, he can complain all he wants: they are still zombies.
Well apart from the silliness of acting like there's any one definition of zombie your argument isn't all that strong and here's why.

(1) infection through biting isn't constrained to zombies, if it were we would have to call anyone with rabies a zombie IRL

(2) loss of higher brain functions is definitely closer, but the same can be said of someone infected with rabies in the advance stages. Or really any sufficiently powerful fever.

(3) doomed to death? Pfft. Same with rabies again. Though it's generally coma then death. The cause of death though in the case of the Infected is starvation...something that could happen to any person, it's not so far as we know a result of the virus

So...yeah...

What isn't comparable to rabies? Rising from the grave or getting mind controlled by magic voodoo powder. There you go.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Infected humans with the loss of higher brain functions that bite other humans which turns the bitten ALSO into...drum roll....zombies.


Like I said, he can complain all he wants: they are still zombies.

You're just being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative.

Zombie = Living Dead/Undead/Walking Dead etc etc. DEAD.

I used to be the undead... until I took an arrow in the braaaiiiins.

http://www.bt.cdc.gov/socialmedia/zombies_blog.asp

apoclyptic proportion is very likely but not on our lifetime

first 2 hours of infection the zombie can run and infect others. because rigor mortis has not set in just yet.
after 2 hours laps. rigor mortis sets in so they are now slow walking zombies.

Virus spreads like wildfire. Like AIDS/HIV. Influenza.

and microbiology nature of virus is that it mutates. so Zombie virus can mutate from madcow disease/rabies/ or any other neurological virus such as meningitis.

we cant even contain flu and hiv/aids. what makes you think that our govt. or military can contain zombie virus

Originally posted by BackFire
It'd likely be contained and dealt with fairly early, not like the movies.

Of course if the zombies were runners they'd be a bit more dangerous, but still, would be dealt with fairly well, I think.

The only way I can see a zombie epidemic growing to apocalyptic proportions is if it occurred in multiple areas of the earth at once.
Depends upon how dangerous the virus is.

Zombies will not be the only issue to contend with. Infection can also spread through contaminated water, eatables, insects, and animals. And if the virus is airborne then the fate of humans is pretty much sealed.

Originally posted by StarCraft2
http://www.bt.cdc.gov/socialmedia/zombies_blog.asp

apoclyptic proportion is very likely but not on our lifetime

first 2 hours of infection the zombie can run and infect others. because rigor mortis has not set in just yet.
after 2 hours laps. rigor mortis sets in so they are now slow walking zombies.

Virus spreads like wildfire. Like AIDS/HIV. Influenza.

and microbiology nature of virus is that it mutates. so Zombie virus can mutate from madcow disease/rabies/ or any other neurological virus such as meningitis.

we cant even contain flu and hiv/aids. what makes you think that our govt. or military can contain zombie virus
(1) we're not shooting people with AIDs on sight

(2) zombies are a lot more obvious than AIDs patients

Originally posted by StarCraft2
we cant even contain flu and hiv/aids. what makes you think that our govt. or military can contain zombie virus

SARS?

Originally posted by StarCraft2
http://www.bt.cdc.gov/socialmedia/zombies_blog.asp

apoclyptic proportion is very likely but not on our lifetime

first 2 hours of infection the zombie can run and infect others. because rigor mortis has not set in just yet.
after 2 hours laps. rigor mortis sets in so they are now slow walking zombies.

Virus spreads like wildfire. Like AIDS/HIV. Influenza.

and microbiology nature of virus is that it mutates. so Zombie virus can mutate from madcow disease/rabies/ or any other neurological virus such as meningitis.

we cant even contain flu and hiv/aids. what makes you think that our govt. or military can contain zombie virus

Which MMA moves would you employ against a zombie if you had to take one H2H?

I've always felt that, of the standard types of zombies, only the Romero rules stand much of a chance of wiping out humanity. If it has to spread by fluids it can be contained. World War Z does a good job of explaining how a zombie infection could pass borders but I think the Battle of Yonkers effectively proves how difficult it is for slow zombies to beat humans (given that the whole chapter is about the ridiculous things the military had to do in order to lose).

we have twitter/twitpics, youtube and facebook and even 8 year olds these days have cellphones; as soon as people started chomping down on each other, the news would spread way fast for it to become a worldwide issue. It would never get to millions of people before we knew about it.

I live in Winnipeg, Canada... worst case scenario, the outbreak is over in 8 months (if the zombies don't rot during our 30+ degree summers)... in theory, there is a brief window in spring/fall where it would be possible for the outbreak to spread. Widespread infection would need to be almost instantaneous.

Cracked covered it well:

http://www.cracked.com/article_18683_7-scientific-reasons-zombie-outbreak-would-fail-quickly.html

If the virus was dormant in every human waiting for the body to die and animated every corpse present at the time of "infection", that could be a feasible way a Z-Apoc could happen.

Originally posted by Robtard
If the virus was dormant in every human waiting for the body to die and animated every corpse present at the time of "infection", that could be a feasible way a Z-Apoc could happen. our doctors would have to be pretty damn dumb not notice the virus camping out in our bodies. With how many hypochondriacs and actual sick people getting checked out by doctors each day, and with how many violent crimes/accidents we have which result in death each day, it's very unlikely that it would sneak up on us.

Originally posted by marwash22
our doctors would have to be pretty damn dumb not notice the virus camping out in our bodies. With how many hypochondriacs and actual sick people getting checked out by doctors each day, and with how many violent crimes/accidents we have which result in death each day, it's very unlikely that it would sneak up on us.

"Dormant", meaning it doesn't activate until the body dies.

dormant = unnoticeable?

in TWD, it was dormant, but Jenner could still see the virus in your blood. What i was saying is that the abnormality would certainly be talked about then studied.

IIRC, you can't screen for a dormant virus. Edit: Or possibly, you have to know exactly what you're looking for.

I thought it was active in TWD, just that the virus didn't do anything negative to a living host?

it depends what you mean by "dormant"... like it is just in the blood but not doing anything?

In theory, you could find it if you knew exactly what to look for, or if for some reason you had a suspicion and put a blood sample in dead tissue and it started to "activate", but I don't think there is just a catch all "virus test" people can have done.

Originally posted by inimalist
it depends what you mean by "dormant"... like it is just in the blood but not doing anything?


Yes, does absolutely nothing but "sleep" until the body dies; then it gets into the business of animating the dead into flesh seeking goons.

Originally posted by Robtard
Yes, does absolutely nothing but "sleep" until the body dies; then it gets into the business of animating the dead into flesh seeking goons.

how many times do you think dead people would have to wake up before we took precautions though?

maybe if the virus could bring back all the infected people at a single moment... ?

I still have a hard time believing that it would be an apocalypse level incident though. Sure, maybe a major city goes down before the army is called in or whatever, but once the nature of the issue is understood (dead people come back to spread undeath), its going to be open season on targets that don't know not to run straight at you.

Its lunacy to think zombies might overrun tanks or artillery positions, its impossible that they might take down a blackhawk helicopter.

Yes, meant that the dead-activation happened all at once say over a day or two period, for the scenario to begin to be feasible.

If it was a body there and a body here, I'd assume the world's governments would be sensible enough to take precautions after the 50th corpse said "brains".

let's pool our money and get working on a giant wall like they had in the end of I Am Legend.

Originally posted by marwash22
let's pool our money and get working on a giant wall like they had in the end of I Am Legend.

I rather surround my town with an ultra-massive ditch and fill it with some sort of flammable pitch. Have a movable bridge for entry/exit.

Really, what those idiots should have down around Hershel's farm house. They had the time and the equipment.

truth.

i also don't get why they didn't have a larger, more secure fence. You'd think a bunch of people who grew up on a farm would be handy.

Too busy being idiots.

Also, why didn't they all just get into the cars and leave? Wait 12hrs (or so) and then come back once the zombies dispersed.

The virus wouldn't even have to be strictly dormant if no one was looking for it, so long as it produces no worrying symptoms no one would notice it existed and probably wouldn't waste resources on getting rid of it if they did. Romero rules were basically just magic, everyone who dies reanimates.

To debate on this subject, it is important to understand the properties and capabilities of the virus that can supposedly cause a zombie apocalypse.

Let us the consider the case of The Walking Dead show, as an example;

1. The virus that brings the dead back to life is not dumb but intelligent to a certain degree. Hints indicate that it is bio-engineered.

2. Infected bodies don't decay very fast because of the virus inside them which 'apparently' has some level of resistance against natural phenomenon that causes decomposition. Another way to look at this is that the virus apparently gives super-human strength or resistance to its host to keep it going against all odds for a while, minimizing damage from the prolonged and unhealthy exposure to the natural environment.

3. During reanimation process, basic instincts come back first. However, some additional brain functions also slowly come in to effect. Zombies (in TWD show) are capable of forming hordes/gangs instead of moving randomly and migrate/search for food sources with some level of cohesion. They are not very dumb.

4. Infection did not spread just through Zombie bites. Their were several others means. A decent hint is that the virus is inside the survivors too.

5. Keep in mind that the doctors and scientists who treat the infected are as much prone to getting infected in the process themselves. This can be supported through real life examples.

6. A major reason for the failure to contain the infection was the lack of cure. Some infections are simply too hard to fight effectively because they work at the DNA level.

These assumptions are not far-fetched when taking a peek at some real life examples.

Here is another interesting article.

I personally believe that The Thing like phenomenon is very realistic; a parasite that can impersonate its host and transform it in to a killing machine or reprogram it in a manner that the host serves as a vessel for spreading the infection. Such a parasite will be once again, intelligent to a certain level.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
To debate on this subject, it is important to understand the properties and capabilities of the virus that can supposedly cause a zombie apocalypse.

Let us the consider the case of The Walking Dead show, as an example;

1. The virus that brings the dead back to life is not dumb but intelligent to a certain degree. Hints indicate that it is bio-engineered.

2. Infected bodies don't decay very fast because of the virus inside them which 'apparently' has some level of resistance against natural phenomenon that causes decomposition. Another way to look at this is that the virus apparently gives super-human strength or resistance to its host to keep it going against all odds for a while, minimizing damage from the prolonged and unhealthy exposure to the natural environment.

3. During reanimation process, basic instincts come back first. However, some additional brain functions also slowly come in to effect. Zombies (in TWD show) are capable of forming hordes/gangs instead of moving randomly and migrate/search for food sources with some level of cohesion. They are not very dumb.

4. Infection did not spread just through Zombie bites. Their were several others means. A decent hint is that the virus is inside the survivors too.

5. Keep in mind that the doctors and scientists who treat the infected are as much prone to getting infected in the process themselves. This can be supported through real life examples.

6. A major reason for the failure to contain the infection was lack of the cure. Some infections are simply too hard to fight effectively because they work at the DNA level.

These assumptions are not far-fetched when taking a peek at some real life examples.

Here is another interesting article: http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2011/10/31/zombie-animals-that-resemble-the-walking-dead_n_1066891.html

I personally believe that The Thing like phenomenon is very realistic; a parasite that can impersonate its host and transform it in to a killing machine or reprogram it in a manner that the host serves as a vessel for spreading the infection. Such a parasite will be once again, intelligent to a certain level.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikorsky_UH-60_Black_Hawk

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/01/Blackhawk.jpg/640px-Blackhawk.jpg

Originally posted by inimalist
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikorsky_UH-60_Black_Hawk

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/01/Blackhawk.jpg/640px-Blackhawk.jpg
Do keep in mind the instinct to help people in trouble and the cost of using machines day-in and day-out. Not to forget the amount of fuel that will be used.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Do keep in mind the instinct to help people and the cost of using machines day-in and day-out.

ok... one major city gets overrun, and the idea of a "rescue mission" will be gone.

cost? you think this would be more costly than the other wars America has the ability to fight, simultaneously?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Not to forget the amount of fuel that will be used.

unless there is a mass outbreak in every city involved in any way with oil production, this is irrelevant.

even without heavy vehicles, how do you realistically see zombies dealing with WW1 era infantry tactics of digging trenches and barbed wire fences?

to quote the cracked article I posted before:



http://www.cracked.com/article_18683_7-scientific-reasons-zombie-outbreak-would-fail-quickly_p7.html

Originally posted by inimalist
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikorsky_UH-60_Black_Hawk

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/01/Blackhawk.jpg/640px-Blackhawk.jpg


http://www.impawards.com/2001/posters/black_hawk_down_ver2.jpg

/countered

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
To debate on this subject, it is important to understand the properties and capabilities of the virus that can supposedly cause a zombie apocalypse.

Let us the consider the case of The Walking Dead show, as an example;

1. The virus that brings the dead back to life is not dumb but intelligent to a certain degree. Hints indicate that it is bio-engineered.

2. Infected bodies don't decay very fast because of the virus inside them which 'apparently' has some level of resistance against natural phenomenon that causes decomposition. Another way to look at this is that the virus apparently gives super-human strength or resistance to its host to keep it going against all odds for a while, minimizing damage from the prolonged and unhealthy exposure to the natural environment.

3. During reanimation process, basic instincts come back first. However, some additional brain functions also slowly come in to effect. Zombies (in TWD show) are capable of forming hordes/gangs instead of moving randomly and migrate/search for food sources with some level of cohesion. They are not very dumb.

4. Infection did not spread just through Zombie bites. Their were several others means. A decent hint is that the virus is inside the survivors too.

5. Keep in mind that the doctors and scientists who treat the infected are as much prone to getting infected in the process themselves. This can be supported through real life examples.

6. A major reason for the failure to contain the infection was the lack of cure. Some infections are simply too hard to fight effectively because they work at the DNA level.

These assumptions are not far-fetched when taking a peek at some real life examples.

Here is another interesting article.

I personally believe that The Thing like phenomenon is very realistic; a parasite that can impersonate its host and transform it in to a killing machine or reprogram it in a manner that the host serves as a vessel for spreading the infection. Such a parasite will be once again, intelligent to a certain level. pack mentality is highly instinctual and points to the opposite of what you said. Moving in a pack in that manner is something animals do, so in comparison to a human, they ARE very dumb.

I thought the pack thing was more a result of the zombies individually moving toward food sources, hence why the pack builds over time rather than roams like typical hunting animals would.

Originally posted by inimalist
I thought the pack thing was more a result of the zombies individually moving toward food sources, hence why the pack builds over time rather than roams like typical hunting animals would. that still points to them being not very bright.

Originally posted by Robtard
/countered

turns out I wasn't even using the right chopper...

The Apache is the top American gunship, the A model had nearly 1000 built, over 500 have been upgraded to the D (block I and II) version, with ~700 being upgraded to the D block III.

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/apache-block-iii-program-kicks-off-as-contract-signed-02480/

even if 3/4 of these were rendered nonoperational in the initial outbreak, that is far more than enough firepower than would be needed to secure most militarily relevant locations, if not end the outbreak.

Originally posted by marwash22
that still points to them being not very bright.

I agree, I suppose I'm just checking my understanding of the lore

Originally posted by inimalist
ok... one major city gets overrun, and the idea of a "rescue mission" will be gone.
Dude, it seems like you have never been in an outbreak like situation. I have seen a glimpse of this last year in my city and I know that how fast it can happen and how quickly the panic spreads. Not to forget that many people will try their best to leave the infected region and go to safer places. Such people can also be carriers.

The army itself will be deployed in the infected region to help the people. What will commanders do in such a situation, if the things start to get out of hand? Bomb their own soldiers?

Originally posted by inimalist
cost? you think this would be more costly than the other wars America has the ability to fight, simultaneously?
These wars are not good analogies. You are dealing with normal people in these wars. The amount of ammunition spent is selective and minimized to avoid unnecessary casaulties. However, in an outbreak like situation, far more ammunition may be spent and fuel consumption will also increase due greater number of sorties for military operations - increasing the costs significantly.

Originally posted by inimalist
unless there is a mass outbreak in every city involved in any way with oil production, this is irrelevant.
Watch the movie Cabin Fever. It shows that how infection can spread very fast. Hint: contaminated water.

What is the appropriate military solution for this scenario? Bomb the water?

Originally posted by inimalist
even without heavy vehicles, how do you realistically see zombies dealing with WW1 era infantry tactics of digging trenches and barbed wire fences?
Zombies are the least of the worries, dude. As I have said before, the infection can spread through several other means and very fast. You are not following my points properly.

Originally posted by inimalist
to quote the cracked article I posted before:

http://www.cracked.com/article_18683_7-scientific-reasons-zombie-outbreak-would-fail-quickly_p7.html
I have read this article. It is filled with many errors and generalized assumptions. Don't read too much in to it.

Check the articles which I have cited here. They are based on real life examples and can give you goose bumps.

Originally posted by inimalist
I thought the pack thing was more a result of the zombies individually moving toward food sources, hence why the pack builds over time rather than roams like typical hunting animals would.

They've shown minimal intelligence in TWD, the grouping(as you said) seems to just be zombies moving towards the same food source or noise, thereby grouping over time.

A fence was beyond their ability to rationalize.

yup.

though, didn't a Zombie climb a fence while Rick and Glenn were in Atlanta? I remember watching thinking, wtf! Zombies can climb fences?! Someone even called into The Talking Dead and asked Kirkman about it and he basically just shrugged as to say, "my bad".

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Dude, it seems like you have never been in an outbreak like situation. I have seen a glimpse of this last year in my city and I know that how fast it can happen and how quickly the panic spreads. Not to forget that a chunk of population will try best to leave the infected region and go to safer places.

what happened in your city?

Zombieism is a little different than, say, the flu. Unless we are talking about the 0-hour event that initiates the outbreak, preventing people from widespread travel (air/boat/train) is going to be easy. Zombies lack the ability to really "sneak" past airport security, especially when there is a known outbreak of something highly contagious. In fact, the situation you are describing would produce 1 of 2 outcomes: 1) the military and CDC shut down all air travel from the city immediately when the outbreak begins (as we know they do from other, much less deadly outbreaks) or 2) there is so much chaos and death from the outbreak that airports don't function anyways. The same thing can be said about sea or rail travel. In all cases, a carrier-but-non-zombie would have to travel prior to the outbreak or in the immediate aftermath, prior to showing any signs of infection, and before the CDC or military can shut stuff down. This offers very few opportunities for a single location of outbreak to spread globally. Certainly a handful of people may travel and spread the disease, but we are talking after the outbreak event, and all nations will be on guard for what has already happened and would know who to look for.

short range travel (cars, walking) might spread some of it to neighboring cities, but a military quarantine doesn't need to follow municipal boundaries.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
The army itself will be deployed in the infected region. What will commanders do in such a situation, if the things start to get out of hand? Bomb their own soldiers?

well, no... air and ground units already communicate in combat zones... and why would the army leave ground troops in the city if it has become untenable? Once they lost the city, they would roll up their artillery units and bombard the zombie positions from miles away.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
These wars are not good analogies. You are dealing with normal people in these wars. The amount of ammunition spent is selective and minimized to avoid unnecessary casaulties. However, in an outbreak like situation, far more ammunition may be spend and fuel may be utilized during the military operations - increasing the costs significantly.

well, for one, you are incorrect. The vast, VAST, majority of bullets used by the American military are not shot at people. They are shot from heavy weapons as suppressing fire. Already, more bullets are shot at nothing rather than at something, so zombies might actually increase the ratio of shot-to-hit, as you would never need to use suppressing fire (unless your zombies know mixed unit tactics and have access to military weapons).

Second, it costs far more to use SMART technology to bomb out people encamped in bunkers or shielding themselves in civilian enclaves. Artillery and fast-air bombardment costs little in comparison. While more ammo from gunships might be a realistic, the conflict would be over in a fraction of time. You might use more bullets in a single month than is used in Iraq, but you wouldn't be fighting zombies for 10 years.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Watch the movie Cabin Fever. It shows that how infection can spread very fast. Hint: contaminated water.

Water are is the appropriate military solution for this scenario? Bomb the water?

how would they deal with contaminated water? Likely the way they deal with it now... undrinkable water isn't exactly a new problem for industrialized nations.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Zombies are the least of the worries, dude. As I have said before, the infection can spread through several other means and very fast. You are not following my point properly.

well like, the thing is, unless the source of the infection is entirely untraceable and can pass through all currently known forms of medical and physical quarantine, this is again irrelevant.

In fact, the more deadly and quickly it spreads, the quicker the solution will turn from save-and-research to scorched-earth. If the zombies are dead, the virus doesn't spread.

and now, if you are agreeing that the zombies themselves aren't an issue, you basically have to accept that an external source of infection (ie, something that would still be there once the zombies are dead) would be detected very quickly. If the zombies pose no problem, the military/doctors can work on isolating the origin of the problem, which I'm going to bet scientists could figure out.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I have read this article. It is filled with many errors and generalized assumptions. Don't read too much in to it.

filled with so many errors you don't think it might be relevant to discuss them?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Check the articles which I have cited here. They are based on real life examples and can give you goose bumps.

sure, your articles talk about why it might be scientifically possible that something resembling a zombie might some day exist... none of that gives them the ability to shoot down an Apache... none of it gives them resistance to being rolled over by a tank...

Not using bombs is one thing I think World War Z got right. The range at which a bomb takes a person out of the fight is vastly higher than the range at which it kills a zombie, plus it will pulverize some of the horde which is the last thing you want to do if it is fluid/fluid transmitted.

Originally posted by inimalist
filled with so many errors you don't think it might be relevant to discuss them?

IMO its the assumptions made that are the killer for that article. There's very little standardization of zombies so some of the more esoteric issues aren't necessarily relevant.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Not using bombs is one thing I think World War Z got right. The range at which a bomb takes a person out of the fight is vastly higher than the range at which it kills a zombie, plus it will pulverize some of the horde which is the last thing you want to do if it is fluid/fluid transmitted.

I guess I'm thinking that, at some point, the impetus to try and save potential survivors is taken over by the need to remove the zombies. In a real world scenario, I think it would be justified for the military to just deveatate a place, casualties be damned. idk, zombies seem like the type of existential threat to humanity where the losses of possible survivors is worth getting rid of them.

that being said, sure, bullets could work fine.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
IMO its the assumptions made that are the killer for that article. There's very little standardization of zombies so some of the more esoteric issues aren't necessarily relevant.

I suppose the issue is that trying to make the lore "realistic" either requires us to assume thing about zombie biology based on real world science, versus how they are depicted in fiction.

it wouldn't get dealt with quickly.

because real zombies fly

Originally posted by inimalist
what happened in your city?
Dengue fever outbreak.

Huge number of people got infected (including me). Hospitals and other medical centers got overwhelmed within days. People certainly panicked. Undisclosed number of doctors and nurses themselves got infected while attending to patients. Military was eventually called, which established its own emergency medical centers in several regions. Even then, many people could not get proper medical attention because of lack of sufficient arrangements. The outbreak was not just limited to my city but spread to several other regions. Most likely it did not start from a single location. Undisclosed number of people died; official figures are not correct. The outbreak stopped because of the timely arrival of the summer season. This was sufficient glimpse for me.

The above happened even when Dengue is properly understood. Now imagine the impact of a virus, which is far worse and not properly understood. Situation can easily get out of hand and really fast. I used to be a skeptic of zombie fiction too but no longer.

Point is that humans, in general, are never adequately prepared. Their is always room for mistakes and additional improvements. New or not so well-known virus can catch us by surprise. Remember the Black Plague? TWD like virus can be far worse and absolutely devastating to human civilizations worldwide, if it begins at several regions simultaneously. Humans themselves will be also responsible for spreading the infection besides several other factors.

Originally posted by inimalist
Zombieism is a little different than, say, the flu. Unless we are talking about the 0-hour event that initiates the outbreak, preventing people from widespread travel (air/boat/train) is going to be easy. Zombies lack the ability to really "sneak" past airport security, especially when there is a known outbreak of something highly contagious. In fact, the situation you are describing would produce 1 of 2 outcomes: 1) the military and CDC shut down all air travel from the city immediately when the outbreak begins (as we know they do from other, much less deadly outbreaks) or 2) there is so much chaos and death from the outbreak that airports don't function anyways. The same thing can be said about sea or rail travel. In all cases, a carrier-but-non-zombie would have to travel prior to the outbreak or in the immediate aftermath, prior to showing any signs of infection, and before the CDC or military can shut stuff down. This offers very few opportunities for a single location of outbreak to spread globally. Certainly a handful of people may travel and spread the disease, but we are talking after the outbreak event, and all nations will be on guard for what has already happened and would know who to look for.

short range travel (cars, walking) might spread some of it to neighboring cities, but a military quarantine doesn't need to follow municipal boundaries.
Lack of adequate medical arrangements will be the key factor. If the virus is not so well-known, it can be mistaken like other normal diseases until the shit hits the fan. Hospitals and other medical centers will become one of the most dangerous places to inhabit. When the killings will begin, people in general will attempt to flee the infected regions. In addition, viral outbreak can occur in several regions simultaneously. It is not necessary that it will start from a single location. Military can be eventually called to contain the infected but believe me! It is not so easy. Influential people in the infected regions will create problems for the leadership and the safety of the family members of the military personal will also become a factor. Situation is never so black and white, as you presume. Again, it all depends upon the properties of the virus and how it can spread. In addition, when it comes to safety of our families, we are instinctively very protective.

Originally posted by inimalist
well, no... air and ground units already communicate in combat zones... and why would the army leave ground troops in the city if it has become untenable? Once they lost the city, they would roll up their artillery units and bombard the zombie positions from miles away.
By then, their is strong likelihood of many soldiers themselves being infected or carriers of the virus - who were stationed in the infected regions to help people prior to the chaos. Remember that the military is typically called to HELP people first, as I have personally witnessed. In TWD show, outbreak occurred in less populated regions first. Medical arrangements were inadequate in such regions to handle large number of patients, therefore some infected patients were shifted to big cities for medical treatment. This sealed the fate of the humanity. The military attempted to contain the spread of the infection in hospitals and other medical centers in several cities but the hypothetical virus spread through other means and soldiers themselves got infected.

Originally posted by inimalist
well, for one, you are incorrect. The vast, VAST, majority of bullets used by the American military are not shot at people. They are shot from heavy weapons as suppressing fire. Already, more bullets are shot at nothing rather than at something, so zombies might actually increase the ratio of shot-to-hit, as you would never need to use suppressing fire (unless your zombies know mixed unit tactics and have access to military weapons).
The ground units will be heavily vulnerable to infection. Indiscriminate bombing runs will require pull out of ground units from the infected regions and it can be too late by then. Virus doesn't discriminates between civilians and soldiers. Hypothetical virus in TWD spread through many other means and was not restricted to bites. All the survivors are infected. Do the math. Once the law and order situation breaks down in many regions, personal safety will take priority. Yes, heroic stands and establishment of potential safe zones can be expected. But how much safe can you be if the virus is already inside?

Originally posted by inimalist
Second, it costs far more to use SMART technology to bomb out people encamped in bunkers or shielding themselves in civilian enclaves. Artillery and fast-air bombardment costs little in comparison. While more ammo from gunships might be a realistic, the conflict would be over in a fraction of time. You might use more bullets in a single month than is used in Iraq, but you wouldn't be fighting zombies for 10 years.
See above. Unless a cure is developed, their will be no hope. Zombies will not last forever. The virus may, if it not curable.

Originally posted by inimalist
how would they deal with contaminated water? Likely the way they deal with it now... undrinkable water isn't exactly a new problem for industrialized nations.
Water purification methods can be effective to a certain degree but not entirely. What about insects and animals? What if the virus is airborne? Again, it all depends upon how powerful the virus is and how it can spread. TWD virus is extremely powerful in comparison to most viruses that we have dealt with in real life.

Originally posted by inimalist
well like, the thing is, unless the source of the infection is entirely untraceable and can pass through all currently known forms of medical and physical quarantine, this is again irrelevant.
Detection of virus will not be an issue. Prevention will be.

Originally posted by inimalist
In fact, the more deadly and quickly it spreads, the quicker the solution will turn from save-and-research to scorched-earth. If the zombies are dead, the virus doesn't spread.
This is where you are absolutely wrong. You assume that zombies are the only source for spreading the infection. Zombies are the aftermath actually. Also, such kind of virus will be working on DNA level. Developing a cure for it will be not an easy task and any possible treatment will be slow and painful, which can be a waste of time.

Originally posted by inimalist
and now, if you are agreeing that the zombies themselves aren't an issue, you basically have to accept that an external source of infection (ie, something that would still be there once the zombies are dead) would be detected very quickly. If the zombies pose no problem, the military/doctors can work on isolating the origin of the problem, which I'm going to bet scientists could figure out.
My point is that zombies are less of an issue in comparison to sources of spread of the viral infection; not that they aren't an issue in the first place. Their effectiveness will depend upon their capabilities; how the virus shapes them. However, the testing has to be done on infected and this will be very dangerous process. Hospitals and other medical centers will be among the most dangerous places to inhabit. The doctors and scientists themselves will be prone to infection.

Originally posted by inimalist
filled with so many errors you don't think it might be relevant to discuss them?
Yes.

For point 1: It is not about the numbers. It is about coordination and cooperation on a grand scale which will be a big headache to pull off once the shit hits the fan. A powerful virus can infect huge number of people in a matter of few days. Once the chaos ensues, panic will spread, and people will become disorganized. In addition, their will be people who will try to take advantage of others. Humans can become as big of a threat to themselves as the virus, if not more. Remember that the Black Plague spread so fast because of human actions. And not every individual is a highly trained fighter or specializes in survival warfare (humans need to feed and drink on daily basis. Once the supplies go down, many will be forced to venture out in search of food and other supplies. Such activities will expose them to unnecessary dangers.). For the military; you cannot indiscriminately bomb civilians who are trying to flee the infected regions. Their will be additional uproar and consequences for these type of actions. On top of this, a chunk of military personal may refuse to do so and rebel. Psychological constraints cannot be overlooked.

For points 2, 3, 5, and 6: The article assumes that the infected hosts will be undergoing similar decay processes that the dead individuals normally do and will be too stupid. This is silly assumption. What about the properties of the virus? How it programs its host? What capabilities it gives to its host? How it deals with internal and external threats to the hosts? All of these questions are valid.

The hypothetical virus in TWD 'apparently' grants sufficient resistance to its host to make it continue against all odds for a long time and significantly slows down decomposition processes. It also makes its host strong enough to tear through bodies of the living and other solid objects. One possibility is that the virus kills the bacteria inside the host once the immune system shuts down. The virus also programs its host to seek potential food and spread the infection further. It 'apparently' also grants some level of thinking ability to the host. The TWD zombies are not jumping in to rivers and oceans unnecessarily to catch fishes. They mainly trek along dry grounds and use man-made paths to seek prey. They can't drive the vehicles but they are not absolutely stupid.

Check these articles:

http://www.technologyreview.com/biomedicine/20566/ (Bacteria killing)

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/03/110309102154.htm (Fungus killing)

Another bad assumption in the article is that the virus will only spread through biting. Very bad assumption.

Keep in mind that the zombies may be dead to us; but they may not be absolutely biologically dead because of the virus that is driving them. The hypothetical virus in TWD serves as the substitute for the immune system inside the living after 'apparent' biological death.

Yes, the zombies will not constantly remain in good shape. They may become useless after a long time of physical abuse.

For point 7: Probably the worst argument in the whole article. Insects and animals can become carriers of the virus after contact with zombies. Also, some carnivores are afraid of humans. In additon, their is risk of the animals themselves getting eaten during hunting. And large predators typically prefer fresh meat. Scavenging is secondary.

Originally posted by inimalist
sure, your articles talk about why it might be scientifically possible that something resembling a zombie might some day exist... none of that gives them the ability to shoot down an Apache... none of it gives them resistance to being rolled over by a tank...
But they do indicate that hypothetical viruses shown in the movies are a realistic possibility.

I doubt if it would happen and I think too many people watch too many zomie movies but if it did I am not sure how anyone would reacted to it.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Another bad assumption in the article is that the virus will only spread through biting. Very bad assumption.

In terms of real viruses, yes, but not in terms of zombie lore.

S_W_L: so, your argument boils down to: "The virus will spread despite abundant evidence that humans can stop the spread of viruses or contaminated resources"

cool, if that is the definitional quality of your zombies, w/e man, wicked

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
In terms of real viruses, yes, but not in terms of zombie lore.
Have you watched TWD?

Originally posted by inimalist
S_W_L: so, your argument boils down to: "The virus will spread despite abundant evidence that humans can stop the spread of viruses or contaminated resources"

cool, if that is the definitional quality of your zombies, w/e man, wicked
No. My argument boils down to the capabilities of the virus.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
No. My argument boils down to the capabilities of the virus.


... yes... the capability being to evade human quarantine

really, your scenario is much less of a zombie apocalypse and more of a pandemic outbreak. Any lethal virus with the "capabilities" you are talking about would end human civilization, zombies or not.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Have you watched TWD?

I watched two episodes before it became unwatchably bland. That really has no effect on my point. It is quite common for zombie fiction to present the infection as spread purely by bite, so much that I would call it a standard assumption.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
My argument boils down to the capabilities of the virus.

The entirely fictional virus that you can assign any capabilities you wish . . .

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I watched two episodes before it became unwatchably bland. That really has no effect on my point. It is quite common for zombie fiction to present the infection as spread purely by bite, so much that I would call it a standard assumption.
Everyone, even the living, are infected in TWD.

so the TWD virus is sort-of like the midi-chlorian of the "zombie virus" universe?

Yes. You die, you rise as the undead ready to eat the living. Unless you die in a fashion that destroys the brain.

Originally posted by Robtard
Yes. You die, you rise as the undead ready to eat the living. Unless you die in a fashion that destroys the brain.
So they're like Romero Zombies.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
So they're like Romero Zombies.

Yes. Except the living don't need to die via bite to turn.

iirc the original romero movies anyone turned when they died. right?

Originally posted by jalek moye
iirc the original romero movies anyone turned when they died. right?

Yeah, thinking about it, it was, as the main character died from a gunshot and zombified.

So TWD is like Romero's lore.

Romeo lore stole it from TWD

the weapon would be water and/or air

but what if everyone thinks its a flash mob?

As seen in Day of the Dead (I think that was the one) there is a way for the world to survive even assuming everyone turns when they die: burn/dismember bodies whenever/wherever you can right as they die. As population falls and safe zones crystallize this becomes more and more practical and effective.
Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
Romeo lore stole it from TWD
And he was so good at it that he went back in time to plagiarize the idea more than three decades before TWD was even thought of.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
So they're like Romero Zombies. Yes. But they'll move faster than Romero zombies when it's plot-convenient to do so.

As I've pointed out in other numerous Zombie Outbreak threads & something that a majority of zombie movies don't touch on....

The amount of dead, rotting corpses, whether zombie or human littering the streets would lead to disease & pestilence on their own.
The surrounding air would be filled with noxious gases from rotting corpses making it impossible to breathe. Decaying matter would leach into the ground & our waterways making it dangerous to eat grown crops or drink water.

The threat from the amount of dead would easily outweigh the onslaught of zombies.

Hey if a bunch of Germans in the 40's found a way to incinerate millions of corpses, I'm sure 21st century everybody could find a way too.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Hey if a bunch of Germans in the 40's found a way to incinerate millions of corpses, I'm sure 21st century everybody could find a way too.

So in a zombie outbreak, you'd be one of the good samaritans that would take the time & energy out of simply surviving & organise a community group that would dig massive burial pits & then collect the rotting dead to incinerate?

Apart from seeking food, fresh water & protecting yourself on a daily basis, you'd be willing to volunteer your energy to deal with the dead?

Originally posted by Esau Cairn
So in a zombie outbreak, you'd be one of the good samaritans that would take the time & energy out of simply surviving & organise a community group that would dig massive burial pits & then collect the rotting dead to incinerate?

Apart from seeking food, fresh water & protecting yourself on a daily basis, you'd be willing to volunteer your energy to deal with the dead?

If you have an organized community put together, staying in one place, then part of that will have to be getting rid of dead bodies. That is part of simply surviving.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
If you have an organized community put together, staying in one place, then part of that will have to be getting rid of dead bodies. That is part of simply surviving.

True.
As you've stated, "IF you have an organised community..."

But nothing's been established as to how humanity's reacted to the outbreak...

Is it total anarchy & chaos or has small groups of humans banded loosely together?

Plus the amount of food & water available, can you honestly waste your energy & strength in properly disposing of the dead?

Originally posted by Esau Cairn
True.
As you've stated, "IF you have an organised community..."

But nothing's been established as to how humanity's reacted to the outbreak...

Is it total anarchy & chaos or has small groups of humans banded loosely together?

Plus the amount of food & water available, can you honestly waste your energy & strength in properly disposing of the dead?

A group that's moving wouldn't care about the amount of dead bodies lying around a given place. If you're sticking around you need to at leasy get rid of the disease that comes with rotting corpses or you'll be worse off than before plus the smell is probably destroying morale.

Originally posted by Esau Cairn
So in a zombie outbreak, you'd be one of the good samaritans that would take the time & energy out of simply surviving & organise a community group that would dig massive burial pits & then collect the rotting dead to incinerate?

Apart from seeking food, fresh water & protecting yourself on a daily basis, you'd be willing to volunteer your energy to deal with the dead? Personally, no. That'd be gross.


It can be done though. A roving band won't be staying in a place infested with rot and disease (obviously, hence the "roving" part). So there will be no need for proper disposal. A large, organized group will though. No survivor worth his weight in grey matter would set up shop in an above-ground, body-strewn tomb. They'd either already be fortified in a position ahead of the horde, or would seek out a place to make such. Body disposal post-fortification won't be too risky. Incineration, burial away from the water table... not hard, so long as you have enough living bodies to carry out the labor. I'd prefer fire, myself. The stink may be awful, but you don't have to worry about digging up plots of land.

So long as the zombie bodies are eliminated ASAP, there will be minimal exposure to disease. Decay takes a while, and the living human immune system isn't so frail as to be unable to handle some fumes. Decent clothing/safety gear when handling the corpses to the zombie bonfire, maintaining good personal hygiene... common sense, really.

Originally posted by inimalist
... yes... the capability being to evade human quarantine

really, your scenario is much less of a zombie apocalypse and more of a pandemic outbreak. Any lethal virus with the "capabilities" you are talking about would end human civilization, zombies or not.
My friend, TWD indicates a pandemic outbreak.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Personally, no. That'd be gross.


It can be done though. A roving band won't be staying in a place infested with rot and disease (obviously, hence the "roving" part). So there will be no need for proper disposal. A large, organized group will though. No survivor worth his weight in grey matter would set up shop in an above-ground, body-strewn tomb. They'd either already be fortified in a position ahead of the horde, or would seek out a place to make such. Body disposal post-fortification won't be too risky. Incineration, burial away from the water table... not hard, so long as you have enough living bodies to carry out the labor. I'd prefer fire, myself. The stink may be awful, but you don't have to worry about digging up plots of land.

So long as the zombie bodies are eliminated ASAP, there will be minimal exposure to disease. Decay takes a while, and the living human immune system isn't so frail as to be unable to handle some fumes. Decent clothing/safety gear when handling the corpses to the zombie bonfire, maintaining good personal hygiene... common sense, really.
Prolonged or repeated exposure to infected individuals (zombies or corpses) may not be healthy too and may create chances for getting infected.

Unless robots are available to do the job.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Prolonged or repeated exposure to infected individuals (zombies or corpses) may not be healthy too and may create chances for getting infected.

Unless robots are available to do the job. Mays and ifs about uncertain invisible future elements doesn't make for an interesting conversation. Any possible solution can be countered with a "True, but then if this happened..."

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Mays and ifs about uncertain invisible future elements doesn't make for an interesting conversation. Any possible solution can be countered with a "True, but then if this happened..."
My point is based on this:



Read more here: http://www.maine.gov/dhhs/mecdc/infectious-disease/epi/airborne/index.shtml

The (TWD) virus 'apparently' spread not just through zombie bites but through other means too. If we are considering this kind of virus then their is possibility that prolonged exposure or contact with infected (zombies or corpses) may also have played a role in spreading of the infection among the survivors. But of-course, their is no concrete explanation yet. We are dealing with possibilities here.

I hate speculative fictional what ifs.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
My friend, TWD indicates a pandemic outbreak.

so, the virus, according to you:

- 100% infection rate (infects all people it contacts)
- 100% symptomatic (all people infected develop the zombie symptoms)
- Present in 100% of the population
- Transmits through fluid exchange
- Transmits by air (?)
- Contaminates water or other resources
- Undetectable, or at least, goes undetected
- Dormant for years, but activates across the population at a single moment
- Can not only be carried by other species, but infects them

... think about it. With those qualities, zombification is the least scary outcome. That virus alone, zombies or not, would end human civilization, if not all life on the planet. The fact it has to wait until you are dead to activate is actually a detriment. If it just killed you outright or at the time of population wide activation, that would be the end. Making it a zombie virus actually needlessly extends the process

I've watched TWD. It is not a show about people dealing with a pandemic, it is a show about zombies (sometimes).

Not only the above, but you have suggested in the case of zombies that:

- The virus acts as their immune system
- The virus maintains their body heat, other biological processes
- The virus etc etc etc...

This is what I mean by the midi-chlorian thing. Someone tried to "scienceify" zombies, but in doing so, has to come up with such absurd notions that it is actually detrimental to the whole process. Its like a literary "get out of illogical plots free" card, as you can continuously just say, "well, no, actually the virus can prevent that".

Its like, if I pointed out that zombies would very quickly lose the ability to move given the myelin covering the axons in their central nervous system would degrade, essentially giving zombies a terminal case of multiple sclerosis, and you replied "well, in the movies zombies don't degrade, therefore the virus performs the role of the oligodendrocytes and Schwann cells".

Like, if my argument is that, in reality stuff doesn't work the way it would in the movies, it isn't a convincing reply to say, "well, look how it worked in the movies". Sure, we are dealing with something of an entirely fictional nature in the first place, so it makes everything sort of speculative anyways, but it does seem sort of futile if every point can be countered with "well, the virus fixes it".

IDK, you are right, the virus you described would be the apocalypse... though, from the very examples you provided in this thread, it looks nothing like what an actual form of a zombie virus might be. For instance:

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=24276

here is something that sort of makes people kind of behave in a way that you might describe as a zombie if you were trying to make an interesting article. Notice how it has none of the "God Mode" hacks that poor writers have had to develop to make their outbreak seem more realistic?

Why the '28 Days Later' scenario is far more plausible. Uber rabies.

I've only seen a bit of the first, but it tends to deal with cities that are overrun and their survivors, while elsewhere NATO and such are able to fight and kill the infected (or, they die off from lack of food)?

also, fast zombies

Originally posted by inimalist
I've only seen a bit of the first, but it tends to deal with cities that are overrun and their survivors, while elsewhere NATO and such are able to fight and kill the infected (or, they die off from lack of food)?

also, fast zombies

IIRC, massive parts of England where overrun.

The infected are not dead, they're just raging crazy and seem to have increased endurance due to this.

Infection is by bodily contact/fluid exchange and it takes less than a minute for a newly infected human to "transform" into a rager and go on to attack and infect others.

They do eventually succumb to dehydration/starvation.

hmmm, maybe it is the "they are still alive" part then, but ya, I agree, it seems much more realistic.

Originally posted by inimalist
hmmm, maybe it is the "they are still alive" part then, but ya, I agree, it seems much more realistic.

The infected being alive and the speed of transfer/infection make it more plausible than zombies.

Though, could a virus infect a body (or at least the mind here) in under a minute? Where you go from a 'normal' person to a raging lunatic whose only goal is to attack others who are not infected?

Originally posted by Robtard
The infected being alive and the speed of transfer/infection make it more plausible than zombies.

Though, could a virus infect a body (or at least the mind here) in under a minute? Where you go from a 'normal' person to a raging lunatic whose only goal is to attack others who are not infected?

the brain has no immune system, so it wouldn't have much to contend with once the virus got through the blood-brain barrier. However, neurons often don't have the same reproductive behaviours as normal cells, so the virus would have to have some other way of "infecting" the necessary cells. Like, iirc, a normal virus hijacks a host cell and uses its DNA to start reproducing the virus. Actually, I suppose that would work with neurons... and since the rabies virus can already spread from one neuron to another (there is a technique for following the flow of information through the brain by using a rabies virus as a marker) it isn't absolutely impossible. I mean, smoked or injected drugs can have effects within seconds... I'm really not sure...

I think the more unrealistic part would be that the infected person is able to spread the virus so quickly. Maybe the virus can infect the mind in under a minute, I don't see the virus as having reproduced so many times that it is now literally dripping in the saliva.

The Rage Virus would be spread more by mosquitoes than human carriers wouldn't it?

Not to mention more traditional forms of zombie virus.

Originally posted by the ninjak
The Rage Virus would be spread more by mosquitoes than human carriers wouldn't it?


Yes and no, depends if the virus can survive in a mosquito.

eg HIV can't, iirc.

Originally posted by Robtard
Yes and no, depends if the virus can survive in a mosquito.

eg HIV can't, iirc.

Good point. The bird in 28 days later was eating a freshly killed infected. And a drop fell into the man's eye.

Originally posted by Robtard
Though, could a virus infect a body (or at least the mind here) in under a minute? Where you go from a 'normal' person to a raging lunatic whose only goal is to attack others who are not infected?

That's a really complex effect if you think about it. The infected only really differ from the uninfected through behavior and subtle visual cues. Arbitrary violence would be easy but that's the kind of thing that seriously altering the brain no matter how you do it.

Actually this brings up another of my problems with zombies. If they eat anyone uninfected then a swarm should never be able to make new zombies since they'll tear their target apart before they can reanimate.

Originally posted by the ninjak
The Rage Virus would be spread more by mosquitoes than human carriers wouldn't it?

Not to mention more traditional forms of zombie virus.

Originally posted by the ninjak
Good point. The bird in 28 days later was eating a freshly killed infected. And a drop fell into the man's eye.

http://www-rci.rutgers.edu/~insects/aids.htm

Like Rob said, it will depend on the ability of the virus to survive in the mosquito more than anything else (though there are plausible other ways for a mosquito or insect to carry it).

However, if we are talking about a virus that is able to infect many species across many kingdoms of animals (mammals, insects, etc), the mosquito itself might become a carrier, however such diseases are incredibly rare (and iirc ones that jump kingdoms like this are unheard of)

EDIT: additionally, it appears stuff like malaria, which is almost exclusively spread by mosquitoes, has evolved specifically for this mode of transmission. The malaria parasite undergoes changes within the mosquito to prepare it for transmission to the next human host.

http://www.gsk.com/community/malaria/transmission.htm

"realistically", unless it was a government program that designed a zombie causing parasite that could specifically be carried by mosquitoes (the way evolution would have designed malaria), this is highly unlikely. For instance, transmission of dengue fever requires an incubation of the virus within the mosquito to prepare it to be transferred to a human, and is so evolutionarily rarefied that only one species of mosquito, aedes aegypti, is able to transfer it.

http://www.medpedia.com/questions/1638-how-do-mosquitoes-transfer-the-dengue-fever-virus-to-people

Outside of a specific design characteristic that allows the zombie virus to be transferred by mosquitoes, it is highly unlikely.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
That's a really complex effect if you think about it. The infected only really differ from the uninfected through behavior and subtle visual cues. Arbitrary violence would be easy but that's the kind of thing that seriously altering the brain no matter how you do it.

Actually this brings up another of my problems with zombies. If they eat anyone uninfected then a swarm should never be able to make new zombies since they'll tear their target apart before they can reanimate. I've thought the same with every zombie medium. How are there numbers so high?

Because zombies are fickle and they only eat just enough of a person, duh.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
That's a really complex effect if you think about it. The infected only really differ from the uninfected through behavior and subtle visual cues. Arbitrary violence would be easy but that's the kind of thing that seriously altering the brain no matter how you do it.

Actually this brings up another of my problems with zombies. If they eat anyone uninfected then a swarm should never be able to make new zombies since they'll tear their target apart before they can reanimate.
Also the biggest problem with the Hollywood "werewolf bites you, you turn into werewolf" thing.

Edit: I actually encountered this problem years ago when I tried writing a zombie story and couldn't think of a valid reason beyond people managing to escape after being bitten before the zombies can dismember/eat them.

This reminds me of scene from the latest episode of TWD. Zombies are munching on flesh, and then a helicopter distracts them and leads them towards the farm???

What is that more important to a zombie then munching on flesh? Apparently some random noises are able to distract them from their sole instinct to feed. That totally makes sense.

Originally posted by Placidity
This reminds me of scene from the latest episode of TWD. Zombies are munching on flesh, and then a helicopter distracts them and leads them towards the farm???

What is that more important to a zombie then munching on flesh? Apparently some random noises are able to distract them from their sole instinct to feed. That totally makes sense. To them, noise=more food

Also zombies dont eat an entire person, just a few bites.

Originally posted by Placidity
This reminds me of scene from the latest episode of TWD. Zombies are munching on flesh, and then a helicopter distracts them and leads them towards the farm???

What is that more important to a zombie then munching on flesh? Apparently some random noises are able to distract them from their sole instinct to feed. That totally makes sense. Plot convenience is a b*tch. Maybe the corpse was a black guy, and that group of zombies were racist.

Originally posted by inimalist
so, the virus, according to you:

- 100% infection rate (infects all people it contacts)
This is not according to me. This is canon. Every human being is infected in the show.

Originally posted by inimalist
- 100% symptomatic (all people infected develop the zombie symptoms)
Not until they die.

Originally posted by inimalist
- Present in 100% of the population
This is not according to me. This is canon. Every human being is infected in the show.

Originally posted by inimalist
- Transmits through fluid exchange
- Transmits by air (?)
- Contaminates water or other resources
These are some possible explanations of how the virus spread so fast and far.

TWD virus certainly can infect water (depicted in the show).

Originally posted by inimalist
- Undetectable, or at least, goes undetected
I never said that the virus is not detectable. It was in the show too. Dr. Edwin Jenner, CDC employee, revealed this to Rick Grimes.

Originally posted by inimalist
- Dormant for years, but activates across the population at a single moment
The virus activates when the host dies.

Originally posted by inimalist
- Can not only be carried by other species, but infects them
Not sure about this. Can be possible.

Originally posted by inimalist
I never said that the virus is not detectable. It was in the show too. Dr. Edwin Jenner, CDC employee, revealed this to Rick Grimes.

Originally posted by inimalist
... think about it. With those qualities, zombification is the least scary outcome. That virus alone, zombies or not, would end human civilization, if not all life on the planet. The fact it has to wait until you are dead to activate is actually a detriment. If it just killed you outright or at the time of population wide activation, that would be the end. Making it a zombie virus actually needlessly extends the process
Zombies are just an aftermath of the virus. People die but the virus reanimates them. This is why the military forces failed to contain the outbreaks. Everybody was turning.

Originally posted by inimalist
I've watched TWD. It is not a show about people dealing with a pandemic, it is a show about zombies (sometimes).
It is a show about people dealing with a pandemic. Zombies just bring the horror factor to the picture. They are the aftermath.

Originally posted by inimalist
Not only the above, but you have suggested in the case of zombies that:

- The virus acts as their immune system
- The virus maintains their body heat, other biological processes
- The virus etc etc etc...

This is what I mean by the midi-chlorian thing. Someone tried to "scienceify" zombies, but in doing so, has to come up with such absurd notions that it is actually detrimental to the whole process. Its like a literary "get out of illogical plots free" card, as you can continuously just say, "well, no, actually the virus can prevent that".
My point is that the 'dead' individuals in TWD do not decompose in a normal manner because of the virus inside. This is not rocket science.

Every virus has come capabilities and properties in real life; some can reprogram the hosts; some can kill bacteria; some can resist fungal infections and so on....

The immune system shuts down in death. Once this happens, the bacteria inside the body begins the decomposition process. Brain cells are the first to die. Other cells can last much longer.

In TWD, the virus can reanimate only those corpses which have intact brain; not those which have damaged brain. As soon as the host dies, the virus begins its work on the brain to preserve it. It also resists bacteria inside the body to significantly slow down the decomposition processes. It might also be fighting off external threats like maggot infections and others.

If the brain is destroyed, the virus will not be able to control the body.

Originally posted by inimalist
Its like, if I pointed out that zombies would very quickly lose the ability to move given the myelin covering the axons in their central nervous system would degrade, essentially giving zombies a terminal case of multiple sclerosis, and you replied "well, in the movies zombies don't degrade, therefore the virus performs the role of the oligodendrocytes and Schwann cells".
TWD virus controls the whole body through the brain and possibly triggers some biological functions. Do not know the whole thing though - can only speculate.

Originally posted by inimalist
Like, if my argument is that, in reality stuff doesn't work the way it would in the movies, it isn't a convincing reply to say, "well, look how it worked in the movies". Sure, we are dealing with something of an entirely fictional nature in the first place, so it makes everything sort of speculative anyways, but it does seem sort of futile if every point can be countered with "well, the virus fixes it".
In real life, viruses have been known to reprogram hosts and fight off internal and external threats. Do you still think that my assumptions are far fetched?

Originally posted by inimalist
IDK, you are right, the virus you described would be the apocalypse... though, from the very examples you provided in this thread, it looks nothing like what an actual form of a zombie virus might be. For instance:

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=24276

here is something that sort of makes people kind of behave in a way that you might describe as a zombie if you were trying to make an interesting article. Notice how it has none of the "God Mode" hacks that poor writers have had to develop to make their outbreak seem more realistic?


That link which you provided is very interesting. Thanks for sharing. It is an example of a virus which can reprogram a human being. This is no joke, given the complexity of the human brain.

It brings us one-step closer to TWD like hypothetical supervirus.

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
To them, noise=more food

Also zombies dont eat an entire person, just a few bites.


Assuming a zombie can't digest...wouldn't a bloated zombie be turned off from eating more?

Even if it's instinctual, a full gut of undigested meat would surely have an adverse affect to their need to kill/eat.

^ What I didn't like about the Solanum zombies from World War Z/ZSG was that they're supposed to be the result of a virus but while some of the behavior of the virus makes sense from a procreative standpoint a lot of the behavior (eating human flesh until their stomachs burst) makes no sense and would have no purpose aside from conforming to movie zombie tropes.

Originally posted by Esau Cairn
Assuming a zombie can't digest...wouldn't a bloated zombie be turned off from eating more?

Even if it's instinctual, a full gut of undigested meat would surely have an adverse affect to their need to kill/eat.

That reminds me of Marvel Zombies when Zombie Hulk ate to many people then changed back into Banner. And his guts just exploded.

Originally posted by the ninjak
That reminds me of Marvel Zombies when Zombie Hulk ate to many people then changed back into Banner. And his guts just exploded.

You just made me imagine severed penises flying everywhere.

I'm reporting you.