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If there's anyone here with some expertise in building materials/architecture I have a question.

If you were guaranteed a sufficient supply of white marble would a wall constructed from it offer good protection during a seige, IE, would marble be functional as well as pleasing to the eye as a defensive material?

I know that granite was more common historically, but I'm wondering if the apparent lack of marble fortifications (that I know of) is due to marble being scarcer/harder to find in large enough formations or if it's also a matter of marble being too soft/breakable.

Granite is slightly denser and I'm fairly sure it's harder since marble is one of those rocks you can scratch with a fingernail. Granite should be a better defense for a given thickness but you can make the (expensive) marble wall thicker if you want. If its purely aesthetic just use the marble as a covering.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Granite is slightly denser and I'm fairly sure it's harder since marble is one of those rocks you can scratch with a fingernail. Granite should be a better defense for a given thickness but you can make the (expensive) marble wall thicker if you want. If its purely aesthetic just use the marble as a covering.
I suppose it could also help that the wall is built by wizards

I did quite a bit of renovation work a few years ago. What I know is that Marble is very heavy, and if your house were to be composed of this material, everything would have to be fortified stronger. Instead of wooden beams to support it, you would need to have cement beams laced with steel or iron rods. The firewall, or supporting backbone of the dwelling would also need to be composed of a high category cement laced with iron or steel. A special foundation would also need to be poured. If given a rough estimate of the cost to build such a dwelling, I would say that it would cost millions depending on the size of the house, or structure.

Originally posted by Stoic
I did quite a bit of renovation work a few years ago. What I know is that Marble is very heavy, and if your house were to be composed of this material, everything would have to be fortified stronger. Instead of wooden beams to support it, you would need to have cement beams laced with steel or iron rods. The firewall, or supporting backbone of the dwelling would also need to be composed of a high category cement laced with iron or steel. A special foundation would also need to be poured. If given a rough estimate of the cost to build such a dwelling, I would say that it would cost millions depending on the size of the house, or structure.
Would a massive marble structure start to sink if it were in a less geologically stable area?

Originally posted by Omega Vision
If there's anyone here with some expertise in building materials/architecture I have a question.

If you were guaranteed a sufficient supply of white marble would a wall constructed from it offer good protection during a seige, IE, would marble be functional as well as pleasing to the eye as a defensive material?

I know that granite was more common historically, but I'm wondering if the apparent lack of marble fortifications (that I know of) is due to marble being scarcer/harder to find in large enough formations or if it's also a matter of marble being too soft/breakable.

Go with fortified concrete, can't beat the durability for the price. Besides, what will aesthetics matter during the Zombie Apocalypse.

I also do not believe that it would protect you against a blast any better than a house made of wood, plaster, and bricks. To figure this out just check on the pounds per square foot that an average military issue missile can produce, and you would see that if one were to be shot at any house, that that house would be devastated. I think I'd prefer the weaker and less fortified structure to the one that was categorized as being higher. Even in the event that it was not a missile strike, and just an earthquake.

Originally posted by Robtard
Go with fortified concrete, can't beat the durability for the price. Besides, what will aesthetics matter during the Zombie Apocalypse.
Well actually now that you mention it concrete might be a better idea. This is for a book I've written/am writing (its a complicated situation) and the wall in question is a two hundred foot high circular wall surrounding a Magicratic city constructed by a Romanesque culture, so making it from some kind of fantasy concrete that looks like marble but has all the properties of concrete might be better...still I really like the idea of building a giant wall from such a heavy, rare material.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Would a massive marble structure start to sink if it were in a less geologically stable area?

Yes it would, and that's why i pointed out that a special foundation would need to be built. It would also depend on the location. building it close to water would be an obvious no no.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Well actually now that you mention it concrete might be a better idea. This is for a book I've written/am writing (its a complicated situation) and the wall in question is a two hundred foot high circular wall surrounding a Magicratic city constructed by a Romanesque culture, so making it from some kind of fantasy concrete that looks like marble but has all the properties of concrete might be better...still I really like the idea of building a giant wall from such a heavy, rare material.

Call the material Ebony adamantite. Just trying to help you out OV.

Originally posted by Stoic
Yes it would, and that's why i pointed out that a special foundation would need to be built. It would also depend on the location. building it close to water would be an obvious no no.
The wall in question is built on a plateau.

Edit: Well it would be Ivory Adamantine, but yeah, it would fit the theme to make it the ancient conception of Adamantine.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
The wall in question is built on a plateau.

Edit: Well it would be Ivory Adamantine, but yeah, it would fit the theme to make it the ancient conception of Adamantine.


My dad is an Architect, and if he were to build a heavy structure on this type of surface which likely overlooks a river, sea or an ocean, I would say that the plateau itself would also need to be reinforced. Steel rods would have to be driven deep into the rock, and attached to the main buildings foundation so that even if the plateau itself failed, the structure would not go with it. Sounds like a cool story.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Well actually now that you mention it concrete might be a better idea. This is for a book I've written/am writing (its a complicated situation) and the wall in question is a two hundred foot high circular wall surrounding a Magicratic city constructed by a Romanesque culture, so making it from some kind of fantasy concrete that looks like marble but has all the properties of concrete might be better...still I really like the idea of building a giant wall from such a heavy, rare material.

If it's magic, then the laws of physics need not apply. Could literally say it's marble but with the tensile strength of steel, just think of a good name to call it. Marcrete, I'm copy-writing that

Ivory Adamantine? This has a good sound to it.

Originally posted by Robtard
If it's magic, then the laws of physics need not apply. Could literally say it's marble but with the tensile strength of steel, just think of a good name to call it. Marcrete, I'm copy-writing that
Well yes and no.

In this world magic and science are sort of the same, whereas laws are tweaked and ultimately nothing really makes sense (the whole point of the story, or at least a major theme is the inevitable failure of trying to craft and maintain an impregnable gestalt image of reality whether through faith or reason (i.e. magic)) the head wizard is something of a scientist, having discovered (actually codified, since human reality and physical reality are directly connected in most places) gravity and atomic theory (his discovery of electrons and the emptiness of atoms is a cause for one of the characters going insane)). In general most of the laws he codifies are similar or identical to our own, so at least in this area I am looking for some realism. If only to emphasize the unreal aspects of the rest of the novel.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Well yes and no.

In this world magic and science are sort of the same, whereas laws are tweaked and ultimately nothing really makes sense (the whole point of the story, or at least a major theme is the inevitable failure of trying to craft and maintain an impregnable gestalt image of reality whether through faith or reason (i.e. magic)) the head wizard is something of a scientist, having discovered (actually codified, since human reality and physical reality are directly connected in most places) gravity and atomic theory (his discovery of electrons and the emptiness of atoms is a cause for one of the characters going insane)). In general most of the laws he codifies are similar or identical to our own, so at least in this area I am looking for some realism. If only to emphasize the unreal aspects of the rest of the novel.

Hey maybe you could get some ideas from a game called Arcanum of Steamworks, and Magick Obscura. You can download it at www.gog.com. very inexpensive, and great game. I think it has a similar feel to what you are writing about.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Well yes and no.

In this world magic and science are sort of the same, whereas laws are tweaked and ultimately nothing really makes sense (the whole point of the story, or at least a major theme is the inevitable failure of trying to craft and maintain an impregnable gestalt image of reality whether through faith or reason (i.e. magic)) the head wizard is something of a scientist, having discovered (actually codified, since human reality and physical reality are directly connected in most places) gravity and atomic theory (his discovery of electrons and the emptiness of atoms is a cause for one of the characters going insane)). In general most of the laws he codifies are similar or identical to our own, so at least in this area I am looking for some realism. If only to emphasize the unreal aspects of the rest of the novel.

The the marble with the properties of concrete idea seems like it would fit best.

Originally posted by Stoic
Hey maybe you could get some ideas from a game called Arcanum of Steamworks, and Magick Obscura. You can download it at www.gog.com. very inexpensive, and great game. I think it has a similar feel to what you are writing about.
I've heard of it.

I've actually started drifting away from fantasy influences (naturally I still love fantasy and use some fantasy staples) but on the whole I'd say my book is more influenced by the works of Gabriel-Garcia Marquez, Toni Morrison, and Neil Gaiman than by Tolkien and the like.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I've heard of it.

I've actually started drifting away from fantasy influences (naturally I still love fantasy and use some fantasy staples) but on the whole I'd say my book is more influenced by the works of Gabriel-Garcia Marquez, Toni Morrison, and Neil Gaiman than by Tolkien and the like.


This game is a bit different than the fantasy games that you have tried. There really is no other game to compare it to. You can choose the path of a Technologist, Mage, or something in between the two, or even a simple Warrior, or barbarian class fighter. For the price that they are selling this particular piece it may not hurt you to check it out. I promise that you will like it. You could literally write a small novel on this game. It kind of makes me wonder why Bethesda hasn't bought up the rights for it.

Make the wall out of compressed silk from Darwin's bark spider. Magicians using spiders makes sense.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Make the wall out of compressed silk from Darwin's bark spider. Magicians using spiders makes sense.
Actually that gave me another idea completely.

The Civa Alban Realm (nation where this wall, the wall of Civa Albus, is located) is a kind of remnant of a Roman Empire analog with legions and such, but its transforming into a more modern nation and its military's uniforms are transforming from legionnaire to a hybrid of Napoleonic/Fascist (this is the rough idea: http://th05.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/f/2011/074/b/9/comm_for_omegavision_calista_by_avionetca-d3bqas7.png (no the rosy cheeks weren't my idea )) so saying that their uniforms are made from a powerful spidersilk would allow that without sacrificing any of the protection against bladed weapons that steel armor provides.

Thanks for the springboard.

No problem. The idea of sexy Romanesque Imperio-fascists with double-Ds and a force pike, wearing uniforms of magical spider silk is something I'd like to read about. I recommend KMC for proofreading.

Marble would be horrible material to use for protection.

it is prone to cracking and breaking apart. it looks nice though..

if u ever seen how it is manufactured u see how easy it is to break with a good size hammer and chisel.

I am a certified construction worker specifying in underpinning. one of my university courses was study of rocks and soil. My friend's mom owns her own marble tile company and I see ppl work on it 1st hand in the back. they get large shipments of marble and cut them and chisel them to size.

not saying i'm an expert its just my general knowledge.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
No problem. The idea of sexy Romanesque Imperio-fascists with double-Ds and a force pike, wearing uniforms of magical spider silk is something I'd like to read about. I recommend KMC for proofreading.
Lmao. I actually had the full version of the first draft of the story posted here but removed it for copyright concerns.

If you're interested though I could show you a chapter.

She's a minor character in the first draft but in the current version I'm working on she's a bit more developed. She actually tapes her breasts down and when the main character goes into her dreams (thanks to a symbiotic link with a faerie he can traverse non-material reality, IE dreams) she dreams about cutting them off so she'll fit better in her uniform.

have you thought up racial ethnicity's, and a bestiary? Or will this be an all human theme? What type of mounts do they ride on? Silk spun armor is cool for light infantry, but what about heavy infantry? You know what would be cool? Giant insect-like carapace armor.

Heh, looks like you got some new fans

have a lookhttp://www.kread.info/g.gif

Originally posted by Stoic
have you thought up racial ethnicity's, and a bestiary? Or will this be an all human theme? What type of mounts do they ride on? Silk spun armor is cool for light infantry, but what about heavy infantry? You know what would be cool? Giant insect-like carapace armor.
There are some non-human races and then there are some races that would appear non-human but are considered just different humans, most of them share a common ancestor, the Thals.

Mounts are mostly horses, but one guy tames and rides a Terror Lizard (essentially, an allosaurus)

The Immortals of the Duhran Empire have carapace armor. The Thals (essentially, cavemen) also use faetur (giant centipede) plates to make crude body armor.


Originally posted by jalek moye
Heh, looks like you got some new fans
awesome

Originally posted by Omega Vision
There are some non-human races and then there are some races that would appear non-human but are considered just different humans, most of them share a common ancestor, the Thals.

Mounts are mostly horses, but one guy tames and rides a Terror Lizard (essentially, an allosaurus)

The Immortals of the Duhran Empire have carapace armor. The Thals (essentially, cavemen) also use faetur (giant centipede) plates to make crude body armor.



awesome


I will buy your book, and if I am feeling ambitious, and take a course in game design, I will be contacting you with a team of designers to make a possible game based solely on your mythology. I can actually visualize some of the character's that you mentioned, and once all is set, and you want a character designer I'm game. I presently have dozens of character types to contribute to the cause. I have this really cool one that I have polished down, and he looks like a hybrid man flea. I'm working on the female version of the race. I also have some armor designs as well.

Omega leave while you still can

Originally posted by jalek moye
Omega leave while you still can


Is that a jab at me?

eh i guess somewhat, more of a joke towards Omega about similarities to someone else we know.

Originally posted by Stoic
Is that a jab at me?

Over sensitive?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Over sensitive?


Nope, I was being serious, and felt that I was being made fun of. I actually meant what I said, and have been making characters for the past 12 years for a toy line that I wanted to produce. Omega's ideas a very similar in scope to what I am walking towards.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
The Thals (essentially, cavemen) also use faetur (giant centipede) plates to make crude body armor.


FYI, (60's) Doctor Who used the name "Thals" for a humanoid race.

Originally posted by Stoic
Nope, I was being serious, and felt that I was being made fun of. I actually meant what I said, and have been making characters for the past 12 years for a toy line that I wanted to produce. Omega's ideas a very similar in scope to what I am walking towards.

When you say "making characters" what do you mean? Are you creating them in a computer program? If so, what program?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
When you say "making characters" what do you mean? Are you creating them in a computer program? If so, what program?


Ive sketched them out in front side, and back poses to later on bring them into Maya once I have learned to use it. As of right now, i have tweaked them by bringing them into Adobe illustrator, and polished them in Photoshop. I have roughly 60 plus character designs, and with 15 more in production. Either way I will eventually use them in some form or another.

Originally posted by Stoic
Ive sketched them out in front side, and back poses to later on bring them into Maya once I have learned to use it. As of right now, i have tweaked them by bringing them into Adobe illustrator, and polished them in Photoshop. I have roughly 60 plus character designs, and with 15 more in production. Either way I will eventually use them in some form or another.

Ok, when you learn how to use Maya. Let me know. I'm currently learning iClone.

Originally posted by Stoic
Nope, I was being serious, and felt that I was being made fun of. I actually meant what I said, and have been making characters for the past 12 years for a toy line that I wanted to produce. Omega's ideas a very similar in scope to what I am walking towards.

If anything I was making fun of you saying you'll buy his book so fast, because as mentioned reminds me of a mutual friend me and him had. Not making fun of you making characters, I do the same thing since I write and roleplay in my free time.

This is the first rough draft of the Fleaman hybrid race. It looks a little different today, as i have streamlined him a bit, and changed his armor to look more medieval. As I said there are more that I have in an offline PC here in my home.

Originally posted by jalek moye
If anything I was making fun of you saying you'll buy his book so fast, because as mentioned reminds me of a mutual friend me and him had. Not making fun of you making characters, I do the same thing since I write and roleplay in my free time.


No problem. I guess i was being a bit over sensitive. I guess that it stemmed from the amount of time that I put into making the characters.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Ok, when you learn how to use Maya. Let me know. I'm currently learning iClone.


I'll let you know for sure.

Originally posted by Stoic
This is the first rough draft of the Fleaman hybrid race. It looks a little different today, as i have streamlined him a bit, and changed his armor to look more medieval. As I said there are more that I have in an offline PC here in my home.

Looks a little like someone Ultraman would have fought.

Originally posted by Robtard
Looks a little like someone Ultraman would have fought.

Yeah lol, I changed him up a bit, he's thinner built now, with a slight hunch to his back. The face is more or less the same though.

Originally posted by Robtard
FYI, (60's) Doctor Who used the name "Thals" for a humanoid race.
I originally called them trolls. But it occurred to me since they were based on primitive humans I could just call them Thals.

I don't mind much if some of my names aren't totally original, what matters is if the characters themselves are, if their yearnings are compelling to a reader.
Originally posted by jalek moye
If anything I was making fun of you saying you'll buy his book so fast, because as mentioned reminds me of a mutual friend me and him had. Not making fun of you making characters, I do the same thing since I write and roleplay in my free time.
Lol, took me a bit to remember. Haven't talked to her since she left.

Just made a flag for the Albanite Empire, looking for some feedback on the design: http://i812.photobucket.com/albums/zz41/Jdukverst/AlbaniteFlag.png

Flags rarely look good with a lot of text on them. Try working in LPI instead.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Flags rarely look good with a lot of text on them. Try working in LPI instead.
LPI?

Also tell that to Arab countries

Originally posted by Omega Vision
LPI?

The first letter of each word (it looks like something Latin derived so I assume its read from left to right).

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Also tell that to Arab countries

Only Saudi Arabia has a lot of writing on it and gets away with that because the text is highly stylized and the rest of the flag is extremely minimalist.

The flag you've made has a symbol in the center (one I really like) that dominates the image of the flag. If it does not represent the Albanite Empire you should get rid of it. If it does then you don't need the text. Imagine the British flag but with GOD SAVE THE QUEEN in the middle. It would add no real content to the flag, be hard to read, and look messy.

Flags are defined by minimalism. Less is more. Someone's list of the worst flags in the world has the Northern Mariana Islands, Turkmenistan, and Guam which all try to stuff in a bunch of extra stuff.

The worst looking flags are inevitably the most detailed ones:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_the_Northern_Mariana_Islands.svg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_Turkmenistan.svg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_Guam.svg

Updated version: http://i812.photobucket.com/albums/zz41/Jdukverst/AlbaniteEmpireFlag.png

You sure you want the crescents to be tilted? It creates a off-centre, asymmetrical feel.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
You sure you want the crescents to be tilted? It creates a off-centre, asymmetrical feel.
tilted?

Originally posted by Omega Vision
tilted? Slanted, angled. Rotated.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Slanted, angled. Rotated.
Idk, I think it works, it's supposed to be a kind of infinity symbol

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Idk, I think it works, it's supposed to be a kind of infinity symbol Did you try the infinite symbol? Nothing says "imperium mille annos" like a sign of infinity.