DP Tyrant vs the Elder Gods & Skyfathers

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



OneDumbG0
DP Tyrant

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/DPTyrant01.jpg

vs

Elder Gods and

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Even%20More%20Random/ElderGods01.jpg

Skyfathers

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Even%20More%20Random/Skyfathers01.jpg





DP Tyrant gets the initiative. Discuss.

carver9
If this is the Tyrant that took on Surfer and the crew along with Thanos... Zeus solos.

Glorificus
Just a quick question - how big is the power gap between Elder Gods and Skyfathers? I know Elder Gods are generally supposed to be above the average Skyfather, but high-end ones like Odin have fought Elder Gods like Set and won, so the two tiers can't be that different.

Sabro
Originally posted by Glorificus
Just a quick question - how big is the power gap between Elder Gods and Skyfathers? I know Elder Gods are generally supposed to be above the average Skyfather, but high-end ones like Odin have fought Elder Gods like Set and won, so the two tiers can't be that different.

Odin fought Seth.Set is the Elder God.They are multiversal by default,some have higher feats.

Each of the Elder Gods can take on the council and tens of Galactuses and Tyrants.This needs spite in caps lock.


SPITE

zopzop
Nice bait thread :
"DP" Tyrant - Derives his power from "the ambient life force which binds this universe together" aka the biosphere of every planet in the universe.
http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/9597/biosphereo.th.jpg http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/7974/silversurferv3106p10.th.jpg

Tyrant, even "DP" Tyrant, absorbs biospheric energy even if it's synthesized into other forms of energy
http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/8092/bsed.th.jpg



The Gods (Elders included):
They're nothing more than pieces of the Demiurge given form by mortal minds. What is the Demiurge? The sentience of Earth's BIOSPHERE!
http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/9223/voidinthebegining.th.jpg http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/43/lifeforce.th.jpg http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/3850/lifeforce2.th.jpg

Here is handbook (Encyclopedia Mythologica published in 2007) confirmation of the above two scans regarding the nature of the Gods almost word for word :
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/655/encyclopediamythologica.th.jpg

Tyrant can do it.

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by zopzop
Tyrant can do it. Nuff said.

Galactus also sustains himself with biospheric energy and you keep acting like Odin alone would wreck him something fierce and outright beat him if using the Destroyer armor.

Can you spell I.R.O.N.Y.?

Mistress-Death
All of them together stomp Tyrant and lol at Zeus soloing, talk about trying to make Hulk look good

zopzop
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Nuff said.

Galactus also sustains himself with biospheric energy and you keep acting like Odin alone would wreck him something fierce and outright beat him if using the Destroyer armor.

Can you spell I.R.O.N.Y.?

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/8313/efficiency.th.jpg

"Galactus doesn't need the machine to devour a world. It just makes the energy absorption far more efficient!"

Tyrant's BSE abilities > Galactus'.

OneDumbG0
^ DP Tyrant used siphoning machines all the time. He used them on all the Herald-level beings. He used Galactus' own siphoning technology to eventually take his energies. Apparently, because they make the energy absorption far more efficient.

Can you spell I.R.O.N.Y. x2? kinda

In any event, your opaque insinuation that Galactus cannot eat Odin because his energy absorption isnt as good as DP Tyrant's is a transparent red herring. Even if Galactus cannot eat BSE from planets as efficiently as DP Tyrant would due to Galactus' reliance on technology, that should not stop Galactus from eating BSE from the Elder Gods and Skyfathers only as efficiently as he eats them from planets.

If the Elder Gods and Skyfathers are nothing but pieces of BSE, do you deny that Galactus can eat them as efficiently as he eats planets? And since they are supposed to be nothing but pieces of BSE, do you deny that Galactus finds them more edible than stars (which aren't composed of BSE at all)?

C'mon now, don't retreat from your own theory. Galactus eats Odin? Galactus eats Set? Give him his feeding machines and Galactus eats them even faster? I already know how committed you are to this farce that the Elder Gods/Skyfathers are the functional equivalent of mere BSE. And we all know how you crusaded more months for Odin to beat Galactus. So, no, I'm not above turning your own rationale against you into a bitter pill of a catch-22 for you to swallow.

zopzop
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ DP Tyrant used siphoning machines all the time. He used them on all the Herald-level beings. He used Galactus' own siphoning technology to eventually take his energies. Apparently, because they make the energy absorption far more efficient.

Can you spell I.R.O.N.Y. x2? kinda

In any event, your opaque insinuation that Galactus cannot eat Odin because his energy absorption isnt as good as DP Tyrant's is a transparent red herring. Even if Galactus cannot eat BSE from planets as efficiently as DP Tyrant would due to Galactus' reliance on technology, that should not stop Galactus from eating BSE from the Elder Gods and Skyfathers only as efficiently as he eats them from planets.

If the Elder Gods and Skyfathers are nothing but pieces of BSE, do you deny that Galactus can eat them as efficiently as he eats planets? And since they are supposed to be nothing but pieces of BSE, do you deny that Galactus finds them more edible than stars (which aren't composed of BSE at all)?

C'mon now, don't retreat from your own theory. Galactus eats Odin? Galactus eats Set? Give him his feeding machines and Galactus eats them even faster? I already know how committed you are to this farce that the Elder Gods/Skyfathers are the functional equivalent of mere BSE. And we all know how you crusaded more months for Odin to beat Galactus. So, no, I'm not above turning your own rationale against you into a bitter pill of a catch-22 for you to swallow.

The very fact that Tyrant was able to absorb BSE synthesized into the Power Cosmic sans machines and amp off them causing Galactus to stop his attacks, destroys your entire argument.

Also using the machines on the High Heralds was DONE ON PURPOSE BECAUSE HE DIDN'T WANT TO EAT THEM OR DRAIN THEM FOR HIMSELF. He wanted their power, hence why they were hooked up to the machines in the first place, TO POWER HIS WORLDSHIP.

As stated on panel concerning Galactus, the machines make ABSORBING BSE, even from Planets that are the source of his food, FAR MORE EFFICIENT than him attempting to do it on his own. Sure he can attempt to eat the Gods, since that's all they are is BSE. But without his machines the process would suck.

guy222
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
DP Tyrant

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/DPTyrant01.jpg

vs

Elder Gods and

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Even%20More%20Random/ElderGods01.jpg

Skyfathers

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Even%20More%20Random/Skyfathers01.jpg





DP Tyrant gets the initiative. Discuss.

classic demogorge?

really don't see tyrant winning here

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by zopzop
The very fact that Tyrant was able to absorb BSE synthesized into the Power Cosmic sans machines and amp off them causing Galactus to stop his attacks, destroys your entire argument.

Also using the machines on the High Heralds was DONE ON PURPOSE BECAUSE HE DIDN'T WANT TO EAT THEM OR DRAIN THEM FOR HIMSELF. He wanted their power, hence why they were hooked up to the machines in the first place, TO POWER HIS WORLDSHIP.

As stated on panel concerning Galactus, the machines make ABSORBING BSE, even from Planets that are the source of his food, FAR MORE EFFICIENT than him attempting to do it on his own. Sure he can attempt to eat the Gods, since that's all they are is BSE. But without his machines the process would suck. You haven't addressed a single thing I posted. I've already assumed for the sake of argument your arbitrary notion that DP Tyrant's energy absorption is superior to Galactus'... simply because Galactus' machinery makes eating more efficient (lolwut?).

Moving on, if the Elder Gods and Skyfathers are nothing but pieces of BSE, do you deny that Galactus can eat them as efficiently as he eats planets? And since they are supposed to be nothing but pieces of BSE, do you deny that Galactus finds them more edible than stars (which aren't composed of BSE at all)?

C'mon now, don't retreat from your own theory. Galactus eats Odin? Galactus eats Set? Give him his feeding machines and Galactus eats them even faster? I already know how committed you are to this farce that the Elder Gods/Skyfathers are the functional equivalent of mere BSE. And we all know how you crusaded more months for Odin to beat Galactus. So, no, I'm not above turning your own rationale against you into a bitter pill of a catch-22 for you to swallow.

zopzop
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
You haven't addressed a single thing I posted. I've already assumed for the sake of argument your arbitrary notion that DP Tyrant's energy absorption is superior to Galactus'... simply because Galactus' machinery makes eating more efficient (lolwut?).

Moving on, if the Elder Gods and Skyfathers are nothing but pieces of BSE, do you deny that Galactus can eat them as efficiently as he eats planets? And since they are supposed to be nothing but pieces of BSE, do you deny that Galactus finds them more edible than stars (which aren't composed of BSE at all)?

C'mon now, don't retreat from your own theory. Galactus eats Odin? Galactus eats Set? Give him his feeding machines and Galactus eats them even faster? I already know how committed you are to this farce that the Elder Gods/Skyfathers are the functional equivalent of mere BSE. And we all know how you crusaded more months for Odin to beat Galactus. So, no, I'm not above turning your own rationale against you into a bitter pill of a catch-22 for you to swallow.

Of course I've addressed in. But you don't like it so you ignore it.

Galactus CAN attempt to eat the Gods since according to on panel information AND the handbooks they are nothing more than BSE given form by mortal minds.

The PROBLEM for Galactus is, sans his machines, his BSE absorption abilities are nowhere near as good as Tyrant's (since Tyrant showed the ability to absorb and amp off even SYNTESIZED BSE on the fly).

OneDumbG0
^ I haven't once asked you whether Galactus could eat the gods as easily or efficiently as DP Tyrant. Not once. So stop lying about the questions I am posing to you. Even though I can disprove you here, just as answer the simple questions that I am posing to you:

If the Elder Gods and Skyfathers are nothing but pieces of BSE, do you deny that Galactus can eat them as efficiently as he eats planets? And since they are supposed to be nothing but pieces of BSE, do you deny that Galactus finds them more edible than stars (which aren't composed of BSE at all)?

C'mon now, don't retreat from your own theory. Galactus eats Odin? Galactus eats Set? Give him his feeding machines and Galactus eats them even faster? C'mon, don't be afraid now.

zopzop
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ I haven't once asked you whether Galactus could eat the gods as easily or efficiently as DP Tyrant. Not once. So stop lying about the questions I am posing to you. Even though I can disprove you here, just as answer the simple questions that I am posing to you:

If the Elder Gods and Skyfathers are nothing but pieces of BSE, do you deny that Galactus can eat them as efficiently as he eats planets? And since they are supposed to be nothing but pieces of BSE, do you deny that Galactus finds them more edible than stars (which aren't composed of BSE at all)?

C'mon now, don't retreat from your own theory. Galactus eats Odin? Galactus eats Set? Give him his feeding machines and Galactus eats them even faster? C'mon, don't be afraid now.

Yes he can eat them as "efficiently" as he absorbs energies from planets, too bad for Galactus that's not very efficient at all. Hooked up to his machines he devours them with ease.

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by zopzop
Yes he can eat them as "efficiently" as he absorbs energies from planets, too bad for Galactus that's not very efficient at all. Hooked up to his machines he devours them with ease. W.O.W.

You heard it here folks: Galactus snacks on Odin as easily as he snacks planets.

It wouldn't be efficient without his machines, meaning Odin's form/power largely gets torn asunder and most of it dissipates in a cascade of escaping energy like with what would happen if he ate a planet without his machines, but there you have it.

Odin is as munchable as a planet is, according to zopzop. You want to bump that Galactus vs. Odin thread where you peddled your whole "Odin stalemates Galactus and wins if in Destroyer" and amend that to: "Galactus can eat Odin, Odin isn't anything more than a piece of BSE to him"? Or shall I?

Wait, before you do that, answer the second question: do you deny that Galactus finds Elder Gods and Skyfathers more edible than stars (which aren't composed of BSE at all)?

zopzop
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
W.O.W.

You heard it here folks: Galactus snacks on Odin as easily as he snacks planets.

It wouldn't be efficient without his machines, meaning Odin's form/power largely gets torn asunder and most of it dissipates in a cascade of escaping energy like with what would happen if he ate a planet without his machines, but there you have it.

Odin is as munchable as a planet is, according to zopzop. You want to bump that Galactus vs. Odin thread where you peddled your whole "Odin stalemates Galactus and wins if in Destroyer" and amend that to: "Galactus can eat Odin, Odin isn't anything more than a piece of BSE to him"? Or shall I?

Wait, before you do that, answer the second question: do you deny that Galactus finds Elder Gods and Skyfathers more edible than stars (which aren't composed of BSE at all)?

Galactus snacks on (as in absorbs energy from) Odin or any other god created by Demiurge as easily as he does planets but the energy absorption process wouldn't be anywhere near as efficient and hence why he doesn't do it sans his machine.

If Galactus has eaten things OTHER than world's rich in biospheric energy, it still doesn't affect my argument at all. This could have been an anomaly (like when he was supposedly supposed to be munching on Hyperstorm for all eternity) because the characters history is one of him devouring living worlds to power himself.

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by zopzop
Galactus snacks on (as in absorbs energy from) Odin or any other god created by Demiurge as easily as he does planets but the energy absorption process wouldn't be anywhere near as efficient and hence why he doesn't do it sans his machine. That's all that's necessary. You need say no more. There is no "but." We've already accepted for the sake of argument, that Galactus' machines would super-efficiently eat Elder Gods and Skyfathers. There's no need to repeat it superfluously. It won't win back your dignity. Originally posted by zopzop
If Galactus has eaten things OTHER than world's rich in biospheric energy, it still doesn't affect my argument at all. This could have been an anomaly (like when he was supposedly supposed to be munching on Hyperstorm for all eternity) because the characters history is one of him devouring living worlds to power himself. I'm not poking holes here. That's not my intent. The fact is, Galactus sustains himself far better with BSE. So Galactus would find Odin or Set more snackable than, say, a star (which isn't BSE at all), right? Just answer the question. There's no tricksies goin on here.

You've already admitted Galactus would eat Odin just like he eats a planet. My inevitably closing the lid on your theory has nothing to do with the above question.

zopzop
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
That's all that's necessary. You need say no more. There is no "but." We've already accepted for the sake of argument, that Galactus' machines would super-efficiently eat Elder Gods and Skyfathers. There's no need to repeat it superfluously. It won't win back your dignity. I'm not poking holes here. That's not my intent. The fact is, Galactus sustains himself far better with BSE. So Galactus would find Odin or Set more snackable than, say, a star (which isn't BSE at all), right? Just answer the question. There's no tricksies goin on here.

You've already admitted Galactus would eat Odin just like he eats a planet. My inevitably closing the lid on your theory has nothing to do with the above question.

Yes he can eat them and there is a BUT. But the absorption of energies is not going to be anywhere near as efficient as if he used his machines. This was stated on panel.

Sundipped
Originally posted by zopzop
Nice bait thread

Guess I'm a little too late to tell you to watch for the hook. Tasty looking worm huh? happy

iceman24567
Zeus solos

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by zopzop
Yes he can eat them and there is a BUT. But the absorption of energies is not going to be anywhere near as efficient as if he used his machines. This was stated on panel. Thanks, you need say no more. We've already built in to the question that Galactus' machines would super-efficiently eat Elder Gods and Skyfathers. Once again, there's no need to repeat it superfluously. It isn't winning back your dignity. The only thing it's doing is revealing how transparently fearful you are of the most basic proposition you're trying to sell.

Now answer the second question: do you deny that Galactus finds Elder Gods and Skyfathers more edible than stars (which aren't composed of BSE at all)? There's no tricksies goin on here, honest.

Like I said, you've already admitted Galactus would eat Odin just like he eats a planet ( laughing out loud ). You're smart enough to see the end coming, but for realz, that second question and your answer don't play into it. Just answer the question.

iceman24567
Galactus and tyrant are super effective against earth based dieties? Like pikachu vs pidgey? Wtf

leonidas
hmm, galactus didn't have a machine when he decided to eat mephisto's realm. seemed pretty damn efficient to me. and to mephisto. you could also ask the skrulls how 'inefficient' g's absorption abilities are.....

iow--that argument sucks. no expression

janus77
smells like bait but... if DP Tyrant is operating at levels challenging a prepared Galactus then DPT wins.

zopzop
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Thanks, you need say no more. We've already built in to the question that Galactus' machines would super-efficiently eat Elder Gods and Skyfathers. Once again, there's no need to repeat it superfluously. It isn't winning back your dignity. The only thing it's doing is revealing how transparently fearful you are of the most basic proposition you're trying to sell.

Now answer the second question: do you deny that Galactus finds Elder Gods and Skyfathers more edible than stars (which aren't composed of BSE at all)? There's no tricksies goin on here, honest.

Like I said, you've already admitted Galactus would eat Odin just like he eats a planet ( laughing out loud ). You're smart enough to see the end coming, but for realz, that second question and your answer don't play into it. Just answer the question.

He can attempt to eat them (they are BSE given form by mortal minds) but absorbing their energies is NOWHERE near as EFFICIENT as when he uses his machines. This was stated on panel.

Galactus' BSE abilities don't compare to Tyrant's.

OneDumbG0
^ Look at this sh1t. I've asked you the same specific question SIX TIMES and you won't answer it:

Do you deny that Galactus finds Elder Gods and Skyfathers more edible than stars (which aren't composed of BSE at all)?

You're not illiterate. The heck is so hard here to answer the simple question? I've told you outright I'm not trying to trip you up with this question.

And seriously, enough with your incessant red herring "efficiency" notations and backstepping with "attempt." You already admitted he would eat them as easily (and as sloppily) as he does planets. At this point, you're transforming your posts into complete non sequiturs.

hunbu04
You got to be kidding me. Galactus struggle in his fight with Odin and you think Tyrant a being lesser than Galactus is going to beat two high skyfathers and a bunch of Elder Gods. U must be on something.
second as someone already said Odin beat Seth the Egyptian gods of chaos not SET the elder gods. And that stuff about the gods being given birth by mortal belief is complete BS. In fear itself it was already stated that Odin once killed every human on earth to stop the serpent in the first war. And was about to do it again.
In Journey into mystery it was revieled by mesphisto that if odin kill all the human the skyfathers said they will just make new onces. Proof Zeus once created taylor madison a human in avengers story just he could set a trap to catch hera and Ares.

zopzop
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Look at this sh1t. I've asked you the same specific question SIX TIMES and you won't answer it:

Do you deny that Galactus finds Elder Gods and Skyfathers more edible than stars (which aren't composed of BSE at all)?

You're not illiterate. The heck is so hard here to answer the simple question? I've told you outright I'm not trying to trip you up with this question.

And seriously, enough with your incessant red herring "efficiency" notations and backstepping with "attempt." You already admitted he would eat them as easily (and as sloppily) as he does planets. At this point, you're transforming your posts into complete non sequiturs.

Galactus can eat most anything (Hyperstorm, stars, Elders of the Universe), how EFFICIENT the energy absorption is without his machines is a different story.

And yes the Gods should be more edible than Stars or other beings because AS STATED ON PANEL AND BACKED UP BY THE HANDBOOKS, they are nothing more than BSE given form by mortal minds.

Colossus-Big C
Elder gods have punked celestials and eternity. I think team 2 stomps

guy222
weally

and i agree tyrant doesn't win

zopzop
Originally posted by hunbu04
You got to be kidding me. Galactus struggle in his fight with Odin and you think Tyrant a being lesser than Galactus is going to beat two high skyfathers and a bunch of Elder Gods. U must be on something.
second as someone already said Odin beat Seth the Egyptian gods of chaos not SET the elder gods. And that stuff about the gods being given birth by mortal belief is complete BS. In fear itself it was already stated that Odin once killed every human on earth to stop the serpent in the first war. And was about to do it again.
In Journey into mystery it was revieled by mesphisto that if odin kill all the human the skyfathers said they will just make new onces. Proof Zeus once created taylor madison a human in avengers story just he could set a trap to catch hera and Ares.

Fear itself was all over the place, Mephisto even admitted that though some say if humans are destroyed, they can just make new ones. Others believed that if humans die, the gods die with them.
http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/1812/godsq.th.jpg


Athena stated that if humanity is replaced by another species, then the Gods would die because Demogorge would devour them.
http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/5585/gods2.th.jpg

Gods depend on humans. Just like the handbook said "substance of the Demiurge given form by mortal minds".

zeel
i dont see tyrant winning this.

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by zopzop
Galactus can eat most anything (Hyperstorm, stars, Elders of the Universe), how EFFICIENT the energy absorption is without his machines is a different story. Nobody phucking cares about "efficiency" or ever questioned "efficiency." It's a complete non-fact in response to an inquiry never posed. It's not a caveat that redeems any sort of dignity on your part because I never once attempted to dispute that Galactus' machines makes his energy absorption more efficient.

At this point, this is all you've been reduced to, before the inevitable and complete deconstruction:

OneDumbG0: So you believe in A?
zopzop: Yes, I believe in A but also B.
OneDumbG0: Ok, I never questioned B. I don't dispute that. You believe in A though. Good enough for me.
zopzop: Yes, I believe in A but also B.
OneDumbG0: ... B is not in dispute. It never has been. Why do you keep bringing it up? You believe in A. We get it. You believe in A.
zopzop: Yes, I believe in A but also remember I also believe in B.
OneDumbG0: I just told you I never disputed B. You believe in A, right?
zopzop: Yes, I believe in A... BUT, remember B.
OneDumbG0: Do you read English or not? Nobody is questioning B.
zopzop: Yes, but I believe in B.
OneDumbG0: ... wtf?

I wasn't expecting you to fall this far. Let's just say I almost feel sorry for the impending deconstruction. But not really. Like I said, you seriously made your own grave. Originally posted by zopzop
And yes the Gods should be more edible than Stars or other beings because AS STATED ON PANEL AND BACKED UP BY THE HANDBOOKS, they are nothing more than BSE given form by mortal minds. This, however, is saved for posterity. And true to my word, it has nothing to do with how I'm going to deconstruct this retarded theory, once and for all.

zopzop
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Nobody phucking cares about "efficiency" or ever questioned "efficiency." It's a complete non-fact in response to an inquiry never posed. It's not a caveat that redeems any sort of dignity on your part because I never once attempted to dispute that Galactus' machines makes his energy absorption more efficient.

At this point, this is all you've been reduced to, before the inevitable and complete deconstruction:

OneDumbG0: So you believe in A?
zopzop: Yes, I believe in A but also B.
OneDumbG0: Ok, I never questioned B. I don't dispute that. You believe in A though. Good enough for me.
zopzop: Yes, I believe in A but also B.
OneDumbG0: ... B is not in dispute. It never has been. Why do you keep bringing it up? You believe in A. We get it. You believe in A.
zopzop: Yes, I believe in A but also remember I also believe in B.
OneDumbG0: I just told you I never disputed B. You believe in A, right?
zopzop: Yes, I believe in A... BUT, remember B.
OneDumbG0: Do you read English or not? Nobody is questioning B.
zopzop: Yes, but I believe in B.
OneDumbG0: ... wtf?

I wasn't expecting you to fall this far. Let's just say I almost feel sorry for the impending deconstruction. But not really. Like I said, you seriously made your own grave. This, however, is saved for posterity. And true to my word, it has nothing to do with how I'm going to deconstruct this retarded theory, once and for all.

What part of the scans that I provided do you have a problem with? The Gods are merely aspects of Demiurge (Elders and current gods) given form by mortal minds (current gods)? Confirmed by on panel stuff and handbooks? Check

Tyrant gets his power from the biosphere of every planet in the universe and absorbs BSE even if synthesized into other forms of energy? Backed up on panel and his handbook entry? Check.

hunbu04
And the again in Incerdible Hercules Hera vision of the future disprove that again. In the beginning the was Chaos aka the chaos king and from the nothingness came Gaea the first being in creation. Chaos war may be a crappy event but it prove Hera vision. Gaea even show super god hercules how creation/Life fought it way out the Chaos . The Demiurge is not even mention once and since Chaos war is the most recent all the other was recounted by it

zopzop
Originally posted by hunbu04
And the again in Incerdible Hercules Hera vision of the future disprove that again. In the beginning the was Chaos aka the chaos king and from the nothingness came Gaea the first being in creation. Chaos war may be a crappy event but it prove Hera vision. Gaea even show super god hercules how creation/Life fought it way out the Chaos . The Demiurge is not even mention once and since Chaos war is the most recent all the other was recounted by it

If the Demiurge has been retconned, how was Atum aka the Demogorge created? Because he's resurfaced in the recent Thor issues. And it's common knowledge that Demogorge is Gaea's child with the Demiurge.

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by hunbu04
And the again in Incerdible Hercules Hera vision of the future disprove that again. In the beginning the was Chaos aka the chaos king and from the nothingness came Gaea the first being in creation. Chaos war may be a crappy event but it prove Hera vision. Gaea even show super god hercules how creation/Life fought it way out the Chaos . The Demiurge is not even mention once and since Chaos war is the most recent all the other was recounted by it FFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-

Don't do it! Stop! I've got him RIGHT WHERE I WANT HIM!!!!11 Noooooooo~~~~~~~

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by zopzop
What part of the scans that I provided do you have a problem with? The Gods are merely aspects of Demiurge (Elders and current gods) given form by mortal minds (current gods)? Confirmed by on panel stuff and handbooks? Check Learn English. The hell does my pointing out your odd behavior have to do with scans? I haven't begun deconstructing your theory yet. Slow down. I was pointing out how you keep harping about "efficiency" when I never even disputed it. Originally posted by zopzop
Tyrant gets his power from the biosphere of every planet in the universe and absorbs BSE even if synthesized into other forms of energy? Backed up on panel and his handbook entry? Check. Nobody's arguing this. And this has nothing to do with whether the Elder Gods and Skyfathers are the functional equivalent of simple pieces of BSE.

zopzop
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Learn English. The hell does my pointing out your odd behavior have to do with scans? I haven't begun deconstructing your theory yet. Slow down. I was pointing out how you keep harping about "efficiency" when I never even disputed it. Nobody's arguing this. And this has nothing to do with whether the Elder Gods and Skyfathers are the functional equivalent of simple pieces of BSE.

The point is you are ignoring the scans and going off on tangents.

zopzop
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
FFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-

Don't do it! Stop! I've got him RIGHT WHERE I WANT HIM!!!!11 Noooooooo~~~~~~~

You have nothing. I know where this is going concerning CW Herc and those four items from Earth's pantheon.

OneDumbG0
God. You really were completely blind to how I was going to deconstruct your argument and reveal how stupid your theory is. Cat was out the bag. And you didn't even realize it. This theory that DP Tyrant eats all the Elder Gods and Skyfathers is horsesh1t because YOU ARGUED AGAINST THE DEMIURGE EVEN BEING IN CONTINUITY. Originally posted by zopzop
If the Demiurge has been retconned, how was Atum aka the Demogorge created? Because he's resurfaced in the recent Thor issues. And it's common knowledge that Demogorge is Gaea's child with the Demiurge. ^ Yeah, that's your post in this thread AMONGST MANY OTHERS. Funny enough, I clearly remember you arguing the exact opposite in this thread: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=547590&pagenumber=1 Hmm... let's take a look shall we? I mean... it's not like you were completely arguing the exact opposite, right? Yeah, you did: Originally posted by zopzop
There IS NO DEMIURGE MENTIONED at all. Not in the retelling by Hera, not in Secret Avengers, not even in the 5 issues spanning Mystic Arcana 1-4 and culminating in Marvel : Tarot. If there was EVER a place to mention the Demiurge it'd be there. Yet he's strangely missing.

It seems Marvel is giving them each a unique origin story. The "Demiurge created them" hasn't been mentioned since 1989. Originally posted by zopzop
The DEMIURGE hasn't been mentioned since 1989! Not in Chaos War and not in Secret Avengers and not even in the freaking most in depth account of the Elders and their background stories in Mystic Arcana 1-4 and Marvel Tarot!
Originally posted by zopzop
No my deluded friend. I merely used the old 1989 info to prove to you that even before any retcons and Mystic Arcana/Tarot, Atum was not considered an Elder God. Hence why he wouldn't be mentioned in Mystic Arcana/Tarot as an Elder. Hmph. Why the phucking 180 degree turn?

zopzop
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
God. You really were completely blind to how I was going to deconstruct your argument and reveal how stupid your theory is. Cat was out the bag. And you didn't even realize it. This theory that DP Tyrant eats all the Elder Gods and Skyfathers is horsesh1t because YOU ARGUED AGAINST THE DEMIURGE EVEN BEING IN CONTINUITY. ^ Yeah, that's your post in this thread AMONGST MANY OTHERS. Funny enough, I clearly remember you arguing the exact opposite in this thread: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=547590&pagenumber=1 Hmm... let's take a look shall we? I mean... it's not like you were completely arguing the exact opposite, right? Yeah, you did: Hmph. Why the phucking 180 degree turn?

Because it looks like the entities mentioned in Secret Avengers "Abyss" and "the Darkest Child" are argued by some as NOT being Set. There is debate over who those beings are. That's why I didn't include them in my Set respect thread (I did include the scans with Nova wearing the Serpent Crown of Thorns because it was indisputable that it was a Setian creation since it mirrors the look of the Earth's Serpent Crown. The other crown, the Tentacled Crown has no similarity to any Serpent Crown shown on panel prior to that issue). Even the Appendix to the Marvel Universe disputes that the entity in the Secret Avengers arc was Set.


And regarding the Mystic Arcana issues, a friend of mine pointed out the page where Demiurge is indeed mentioned as the creator of the Gods. And he was mentioned again in 2007 Encyclopedia Mythologica.

OneDumbG0
That you cannot contain this trainwreck in a single thread is hilarious. But I'll happily have you argue with yourself as long as you keep it up: Originally posted by zopzop
Because it looks like the entities mentioned in Secret Avengers "Abyss" and "the Darkest Child" are argued by some as NOT being Set. There is debate over who those beings are. That's why I didn't include them in my Set respect thread (I did include the scans with Nova wearing the Serpent Crown of Thorns because it was indisputable that it was a Setian creation since it mirrors the look of the Earth's Serpent Crown. The other crown, the Tentacled Crown has no similarity to any Serpent Crown shown on panel prior to that issue). Even the Appendix to the Marvel Universe disputes that the entity in the Secret Avengers arc was Set. Originally posted by zopzop
The mural at the site of the "Tentacle Crown" was a dead give away and here is the location of the main crown in the image of Set flanked by tentacles of stone, exactly as the mural at the previous "Tentacle Crown" depicted.

http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/7301/secretavengers001pg25.th.jpg

Now if the Set isn't the Father in question AND he's not the Darkest Child imprisoned on Mars, why would the worshipers of the Darkest Child being "touched by Abyss" create a crown in Set's image? If Set was merely another of the Abyss' children, why would it's brother make a crown"touched by Abyss" in the image of it's brother and not it's sire?!





Originally posted by zopzop
And regarding the Mystic Arcana issues, a friend of mine pointed out the page where Demiurge is indeed mentioned as the creator of the Gods. And he was mentioned again in 2007 Encyclopedia Mythologica. Chaos War was published in 2010. Secret Avengers was published in 2010 also. You know how I know that? Well... you kept arguing how more recent evidence rules: Originally posted by zopzop
This has been retconned you know.

Gaea is not created by the Demiurge anymore according to Chaos War.

And Set is older than Galactus or the Celestials and preexisted as the great darkness, no mention of Demiurge in his creation either. This was from Secret Avengers 1-4. http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=547590&pagenumber=1

Old zopzop's got a point. 2007 handbook doesn't trump 2010 comics on-panel. zopzop has got you cornered zopzop... what are you going to argue next??? laughing out loud

zopzop
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
That you cannot contain this trainwreck in a single thread is hilarious. But I'll happily have you argue with yourself as long as you keep it up:





Chaos War was published in 2010. Secret Avengers was published in 2010 also. You know how I know that? Well... you kept arguing how more recent evidence rules: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=547590&pagenumber=1

Old zopzop's got a point. 2007 handbook doesn't trump 2010 comics on-panel. zopzop has got you cornered zopzop... what are you going to argue next??? laughing out loud

Genius, I was WRONG about Set being "Abyss" or "The Darkest Child" in the Secret Avengers arc. I was also wrong about Demiurge not being mentioned in Mystic Arcana/Tarot as creator of the Gods and another poster pointed out the page where it was stated.

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by zopzop
Genius, I was WRONG about Set being "Abyss" or "The Darkest Child" in the Secret Avengers arc. I was also wrong about Demiurge not being mentioned in Mystic Arcana/Tarot as creator of the Gods and another poster pointed out the page where it was stated. Originally posted by zopzop
If "Abyss" isn't Set but some other evil who is the Father of Set, the Darkest Child, and their siblings then there HAS been a retconn since it was stated that the Demiurge created Set and the other Elder Gods.

If "Abyss" is just another name for Set, then he's the one mentioned as the Father of the Darkest Child and it's siblings and he predates this reality and this again retconns the Demiurge creation story of the Elder Gods.

There's been a retcon. laughing out loud Old zopzop has a point, one way or another, there was a retcon or "Abyss" is Set. laughing out loud

zopzop
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
:Lol:

roll eyes (sarcastic)

See this :

This was wrong because another poster told me the page of Mystic Arcana/Tarot where Demiurge is mentioned as the creator of the Gods, you still continue with this childishness?

There hadn't been a retcon.

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by zopzop
roll eyes (sarcastic)

See this :

This was wrong because another poster told me the page of Mystic Arcana/Tarot where Demiurge is mentioned as the creator of the Gods, you still continue with this childishness?

There hadn't been a retcon. Originally posted by zopzop
This has been retconned you know.

Gaea is not created by the Demiurge anymore according to Chaos War. Old zopzop has a point... Chaos War (2010) postdates Mystic Arcana: The Marvel Tarot (2007) by three years! More recent evidence rules! laughing out loud Listen to this guy here: Originally posted by zopzop
Easy, originally the story was the Demiurge created the Elder Gods on Earth billions of years ago.

According to Chaos War this isn't the case anymore with Gaea.

Hence the retconn big grin He's got a point! laughing out loud

zopzop
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Old zopzop has a point... Chaos War (2010) postdates Mystic Arcana: The Marvel Tarot (2007) by three years! More recent evidence rules! laughing out loud Listen to this guy here: He's got a point! laughing out loud

Assuming that's true, that CW did indeed retcon Gaea's creation story. How was Atum/Demogorge created then?

kgkg
Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
Elder gods have punked celestials and eternity. I think team 2 stomps http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/oprah.gif

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by zopzop
Assuming that's true, that CW did indeed retcon Gaea's creation story. How was Atum/Demogorge created then? Originally posted by zopzop
It seems Marvel is giving them each a unique origin story. The "Demiurge created them" hasn't been mentioned since 1989. Seems like old zopzop is right... if there is no Demiurge and he's been retconned out, then Atum's new unique origin story hasn't been established yet like with Oshtur and Chthon: Originally posted by zopzop
Which retcon? Gaea's or Set's?

Whoever wrote Chaos War 3-4 wrote the Gaea retconn.

Whoever wrote Secret Avengers 1-4 wrote the Set retconn.

Oshtur and Chthon don't have new origin stories yet. What we do know is, according to you that is, there is no Demiurge anymore so we're just waiting on the "new origin stories" that don't involve Demiurge: laughing out loud

zopzop
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Seems like old zopzop is right... if there is no Demiurge and he's been retconned out, then Atum's new unique origin story hasn't been established yet. What we do know is, according to you that is, there is no Demiurge anymore. This is also true, according to you: laughing out loud

THis is why "conversations" with you are a waste of time. If it isn't childish spamming it's something else like roid rage posts that have nothing to do with the discussion and cause the thread to go off on tangets. Nice job.

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by zopzop
THis is why "conversations" with you are a waste of time. If it isn't childish spamming it's something else like roid rage posts that have nothing to do with the discussion and cause the thread to go off on tangets. Nice job. Originally posted by zopzop
the relationship between the various Elders seems to be disintegrating. Chaos War with Gaea and Secret Avengers with Set are examples.

And only you could be so dense and biased that you'd ignore what's on panel because it doesn't jibe with how you see things. This isn't the first time you've done this. http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=547590&pagenumber=2

Your own words! Across two threads and encompassing almost two pages you're just arguing with yourself and you're doing it consciously! laughing out loud

zopzop
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=547590&pagenumber=2

Your own words! Across two threads and encompassing almost two pages you're just arguing with yourself and you're doing it consciously! laughing out loud

Yes, my own words, a year old and I already admitted I was wrong because another poster TOLD me that the Demiurge was indeed mentioned in Arcana/Tarot.

Add that to the fact that there is no clear proof that the beings in Secret Avengers are Set.

Tar-Antado
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Old zopzop has a point... Chaos War (2010) postdates Mystic Arcana: The Marvel Tarot (2007) by three years! More recent evidence rules! laughing out loud Listen to this guy here: He's got a point! laughing out loud

Is this what they call 'checkmate"?

OneDumbG0
^ Not to zopzop!!!! He's still got a trick up his sleeve to pull against old zopzop! You'll see! big grin I'm sure he'll argue that an older handbook he misread... somehow trumps a more recent on-panel comic book scan!! Originally posted by zopzop
Yes, my own words, a year old and I already admitted I was wrong because another poster TOLD me that the Demiurge was indeed mentioned in Arcana/Tarot. Originally posted by zopzop
Easy, originally the story was the Demiurge created the Elder Gods on Earth billions of years ago.

According to Chaos War this isn't the case anymore Are you suggesting Chaos War (2010), which postdates Mystic Arcana: The Marvel Tarot (2007) by three years doesn't take more precedence and acts as a retcon?????? More recent evidence doesn't count??? PLEASE TELL ME YOU'LL GO THIS FAR.





Originally posted by zopzop
Add that to the fact that there is no clear proof that the beings in Secret Avengers are Set. Originally posted by zopzop
The mural at the site of the "Tentacle Crown" was a dead give away and here is the location of the main crown in the image of Set flanked by tentacles of stone, exactly as the mural at the previous "Tentacle Crown" depicted.

http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/7301/secretavengers001pg25.th.jpg

Now if the Set isn't the Father in question AND he's not the Darkest Child imprisoned on Mars, why would the worshipers of the Darkest Child being "touched by Abyss" create a crown in Set's image? If Set was merely another of the Abyss' children, why would it's brother make a crown"touched by Abyss" in the image of it's brother and not it's sire?!

zopzop
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Not to zopzop!!!! He's still got a trick up his sleeve to pull against old zopzop! You'll see! big grin I'm sure he'll argue that an older handbook he misread... somehow trumps a more recent on-panel comic book scan!! Are you suggesting Chaos War (2010), which postdates Mystic Arcana: The Marvel Tarot (2007) by three years doesn't take more precedence and acts as a retcon?????? More recent evidence doesn't count??? PLEASE TELL ME YOU'LL GO THIS FAR.

What of it? I already said I was wrong about Demiurge not being mentioned in Arcana/Tarot so that's a non issue.

What's left is :

a) Whether one of the entities in the Secret Avengers arc is Set (there is dispute over this and the Marvel Appendix site says it's not).

b) The other issue is whether that one panel in CW retcons 30+ years of Marvel continuity. If it does, then what are the origins of Chthon, Set, Oshtur, and Atum/Demogorge?

JakeTheBank
DP Tyrant gets the absolute shit kicked out of him.

Hell, full powered Tyrant gets merced.

OneDumbG0
^ thumb up So much for this whole Elder Gods and Skyfathers are pieces of the Demiurge theory... considering the Demiurge has been retconned out -- a fact pressed by zopzop in another thread and somehow "forgotten" when it comes to DP Tyrant! laughing out loud Originally posted by zopzop
What of it? I already said I was wrong about Demiurge not being mentioned in Arcana/Tarot so that's a non issue. Agreed. An older handbook from 2007 means sh1t. Originally posted by zopzop
What's left is :

a) Whether one of the entities in the Secret Avengers arc is Set (there is dispute over this and the Marvel Appendix site says it's not).

b) The other issue is whether that one panel in CW retcons 30+ years of Marvel continuity. If it does, then what are the origins of Chthon, Set, Oshtur, and Atum/Demogorge? Originally posted by zopzop
Easy, originally the story was the Demiurge created the Elder Gods on Earth billions of years ago.

According to Chaos War this isn't the case anymore with Gaea.

According to Secret Avengers 1-4, Set preexisted before this current universe.

Hence the retconn big grin

Oshtur and Chthon haven't had their new origin stories yet.

Tar-Antado
Tyrant wins, this beast conquered most of the known universe while Galactus was in denial his baby was up to no good.

Tar-Antado
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ thumb up So much for this whole Elder Gods and Skyfathers are pieces of the Demiurge theory... considering the Demiurge has been retconned out -- a fact pressed by zopzop in another thread and somehow "forgotten" when it comes to DP Tyrant! laughing out loud Agreed. An older handbook from 2007 means sh1t.

Heeey, that's cheating. You got the guy debating against himself.


pssst...how do you do that?

OneDumbG0
^ I can't take credit for it. I can only offer you a step-by-step chronology for it all. The story begins with zopzop's love for the Elder God, Set. And it showed. He was preparing a Set Respect Thread. When Secret Avengers #1-4 came out and pretty much intimated that Set may have predated the universe, he seized on it for all it was worth. It made Set more than just a mere Elder God dependent on the planet Earth. And when Chaos War came out that same year and Gaea was revealed to have not been birthed by the Demiurge but literally came out of the void that was Amatsu-Mikaboshi who predated the universe, this only lent collateral support for the idea that Set may also have had loftier, more ancient origins!

But zopzop never forgot that he also hated Galactus, who constantly got credit for being superior to Odin (unjustifiably in his eyes). So when it came time to hype up another character to spite Galactus, DP Tyrant was the candidate he backed. After all, DP Tyrant defeated Galactus by absorbing his BSE. But so many posters seemed to arbitrarily disregard that, that zopzop had to support DP Tyrant at every turn. Eventually... zopzop was running into arguments that pitted DP Tyrant against Skyfathers. And the top Skyfather, Odin, had just lost convincingly to Galactus. So DP Tyrant needed repping. And zopzop repped him hard. Rather than focus on physical comparisons (which inevitably made him look inferior to Odin), zopzop found what he believed to be his trump card: absorbing BSE.

zopzop well remembered that the Demiurge was BSE. And if he could ignore the eons that passed by, the degrees of ancestry and separation that changed the original Demiurge energies, and the numerous on-panel retcons to the original Demiurge origins... maybe... just maybe he could convince people that DP Tyrant could easily deal with Skyfathers. Which would backhandedly make him look definitively superior to Galactus who had a difficult time with just one recently.

So zopzop did just that. Enter the last few threads. The problem for him, however, was this: to rep and enhance Set's image earlier, zopzop needed to sell the retcon of the Demiurge away -- after all, Set and Gaea ultimately originating from a portion of the planet Earth's energies seemed sort of trite. But his "DP Tyrant eats piece-of-Demiurge Skyfathers easily" theory completely depended on the Demiurge staying in continuity and its energies' chain of evolution being virtually unbroken through the eons from the original Elder Gods straight down to guys like Odin.

How would he possibly get around this? How could he possibly reconcile the contradiction now?

He wouldn't. He couldn't. And he didn't let it go and it ended up in him arguing with himself in two different threads for nearly two pages. Several fingers were pointed. Some pity was given. Much hilarity ensued. Life went on.

The End.

psycho gundam
http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/gifs/applause.gif

Igniz
Originally posted by hunbu04
And the again in Incerdible Hercules Hera vision of the future disprove that again. In the beginning the was Chaos aka the chaos king and from the nothingness came Gaea the first being in creation. Chaos war may be a crappy event but it prove Hera vision. Gaea even show super god hercules how creation/Life fought it way out the Chaos . The Demiurge is not even mention once and since Chaos war is the most recent all the other was recounted by it

I know that you're talking about that time Hera was explaining the purpose of Continuum(Assault on new Olympus).Hera was talking about the story of creation in a greek mythology point of view.Because the story of creation for the greeks didn't involve the Demiurge.To them, Gaea emerged out of Chaos(Nothingness) and birthed Uranus.The Greeks simply didn't have there own version of Demiurge.If you're looking for a version of Demiurge in Mythology, the Egyptian Pantheon is the one you're looking for since Gaea and Demiurge was Neith and Nun to the Egyptians.If it was Isis who was telling the story of creation, she would involve Gaea and Demiurge.So Demiurge wasn't retconned at all.

zopzop
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ I can't take credit for it. I can only offer you a step-by-step chronology for it all. The story begins with zopzop's love for the Elder God, Set. And it showed. He was preparing a Set Respect Thread. When Secret Avengers #1-4 came out and pretty much intimated that Set may have predated the universe, he seized on it for all it was worth. It made Set more than just a mere Elder God dependent on the planet Earth. And when Chaos War came out that same year and Gaea was revealed to have not been birthed by the Demiurge but literally came out of the void that was Amatsu-Mikaboshi who predated the universe, this only lent collateral support for the idea that Set may also have had loftier, more ancient origins!

But zopzop never forgot that he also hated Galactus, who constantly got credit for being superior to Odin (unjustifiably in his eyes). So when it came time to hype up another character to spite Galactus, DP Tyrant was the candidate he backed. After all, DP Tyrant defeated Galactus by absorbing his BSE. But so many posters seemed to arbitrarily disregard that, that zopzop had to support DP Tyrant at every turn. Eventually... zopzop was running into arguments that pitted DP Tyrant against Skyfathers. And the top Skyfather, Odin, had just lost convincingly to Galactus. So DP Tyrant needed repping. And zopzop repped him hard. Rather than focus on physical comparisons (which inevitably made him look inferior to Odin), zopzop found what he believed to be his trump card: absorbing BSE.

zopzop well remembered that the Demiurge was BSE. And if he could ignore the eons that passed by, the degrees of ancestry and separation that changed the original Demiurge energies, and the numerous on-panel retcons to the original Demiurge origins... maybe... just maybe he could convince people that DP Tyrant could easily deal with Skyfathers. Which would backhandedly make him look definitively superior to Galactus who had a difficult time with just one recently.

So zopzop did just that. Enter the last few threads. The problem for him, however, was this: to rep and enhance Set's image earlier, zopzop needed to sell the retcon of the Demiurge away -- after all, Set and Gaea ultimately originating from a portion of the planet Earth's energies seemed sort of trite. But his "DP Tyrant eats piece-of-Demiurge Skyfathers easily" theory completely depended on the Demiurge staying in continuity and its energies' chain of evolution being virtually unbroken through the eons from the original Elder Gods straight down to guys like Odin.

How would he possibly get around this? How could he possibly reconcile the contradiction now?

He wouldn't. He couldn't. And he didn't let it go and it ended up in him arguing with himself in two different threads for nearly two pages. Several fingers were pointed. Some pity was given. Much hilarity ensued. Life went on.

The End.

Wrong as usual.

When I made those statements :

a) I missed the Demiurge references in Arcana/Tarot and thought that the Demiurge was retconned out of the origins of the Elder Gods.

This turned out to be false.

b) I thought that Set was the "Abyss" being mentioned in the Secret Avengers arc.

This is debatable. No one knows if it's Set or not. The Appendix to the Marvel Universe site, that Marvel.com links to, says it's not. So there's no proof either way.

c) Assuming Gaea's origin was indeed retconned and not just told through Hera's perspective as a Greek God, where does that leave Chthon, Set, Oshtur, and Atum/Demogorge?

You've spammed two threads now posting this nonsense. All you have is b) the unknown "Abyss' entity that pre dates creation in Secret Avengers and c) Hera's retelling of Gaea's origin.

Meanwhile you ignore on panel scans and handbook entries saying the Gods are nothing more than beings given substance by the Demiurge (the planet's biosphere) and form by the minds of man.

You can deflect, name call, spam all you want, you can't change that. That's why you cling to c) above thinking you have a point.

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by Igniz
I know that you're talking about that time Hera was explaining the purpose of Continuum(Assault on new Olympus).Hera was talking about the story of creation in a greek mythology point of view.Because the story of creation for the greeks didn't involve the Demiurge.To them, Gaea emerged out of Chaos(Nothingness) and birthed Uranus.The Greeks simply didn't have there own version of Demiurge.If you're looking for a version of Demiurge in Mythology, the Egyptian Pantheon is the one you're looking for since Gaea and Demiurge was Neith and Nun to the Egyptians.If it was Isis who was telling the story of creation, she would involve Gaea and Demiurge.So Demiurge wasn't retconned at all. Demiurge hasn't been seen on-panel since 1989. In any event, you're likely not aware of what Hercules w/ omniscience, Amatsu-Mikaboshi, Gaea and Eternity all confirmed that Amatsu-Mikaboshi was the universal void before anything in Chaos War and its tie-ins. They all corroborated the foreshadowing by Hera that Amatsu-Mikaboshi was the void. And Amatsu-Mikaboshi's eventual absorption of multiple planets, panethons, etc. confirmed their words so it wasn't all mere aggrandization.

Gaea herself confirmed that she was the first thing formed spontaneously and she was the true font of creation. This further coroborated the accoun told by Hera. And Supergod Hercules found his true All-Father status in Gaea's embrace and nearly became Chaos King's peer so it isn't just mere aggrandization.

If they're all right -- and they all corroborate each other and the levels of power exhibited support it too -- Gaea came first out of the void. She, not the Demiurge, was the source of all the gods. She was not one sibling among hordes along with other Elder Gods.

Like zopzop said. Until Gaea is retconned back, Demiurge is retconned out.

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by zopzop
Wrong as usual.

When I made those statements :

a) I missed the Demiurge references in Arcana/Tarot and thought that the Demiurge was retconned out of the origins of the Elder Gods.

This turned out to be false. Shut up already. You not only admitted that this handbook evidence from 2007 doesn't overturn the actual on-panel retcons from Chaos War in 2010. Originally posted by zopzop
b) I thought that Set was the "Abyss" being mentioned in the Secret Avengers arc.

This is debatable. No one knows if it's Set or not. The Appendix to the Marvel Universe site, that Marvel.com links to, says it's not. So there's no proof either way. Who the phuck cares about your flip-flopping on this. You're making the same god damn arguments based on the same exact evidence that WhiteWitchKing threw at you and you dismissed it completely out of turn. Now that it's convenient for you to accept it you will? Who the phuck cares about your flip-flopping. The main retcon is the Amatsu-Mikaboshi and Gaea retcon.
Originally posted by zopzop
c) Assuming Gaea's origin was indeed retconned and not just told through Hera's perspective as a Greek God, where does that leave Chthon, Set, Oshtur, and Atum/Demogorge? Yeah, it wasn't just Hera. How unsurpising that when you finally found all the issues I've been telling you to read, you managed to gloss over all the corroboration and confirmation and evidence. And like you said multiple times to people who ASKED SAME EXACT QUESTIONS OF YOU: Set was retconned in Secret Avengers, Chthon and Oshtur haven't had their new origins told yet. As for Atum, the simplest answer is the most likely: Atum can still be Gaea's son, but as there is no Demiurge, she birthed him immaculately on her own. Originally posted by zopzop
You've spammed two threads now posting this nonsense. All you have is b) the unknown "Abyss' entity that pre dates creation in Secret Avengers and c) Hera's retelling of Gaea's origin.

Meanwhile you ignore on panel scans and handbook entries saying the Gods are nothing more than beings given substance by the Demiurge (the planet's biosphere) and form by the minds of man.

You can deflect, name call, spam all you want, you can't change that. That's why you cling to c) above thinking you have a point. Shut the phuck up with your trolling. You quanchiwaffled like a flopping fish. Every argument you're peddling now, you rebutted fiercely for pages and pages on end in a different thread. Every rebuttal of mine here mirrors your arguments in the other thread.

The bottom-line is this: Chaos War is the most recent evidence and it evidences a retcon that leaves no place for the Demiurge. You already accept that significant portion of the retcon involving Amatsu-Mikaboshi so your disbelief in Gaea's portion (equally important) is a complete farce. Since there is no strictly biospheric entity Demiurge, there is no chain of BSE from origin to Elder Gods to Skyfathers. Accordingly, your argument that the Elder Gods and Skyfathers are just pieces of the Demiurge that are snackables for DP Tyrant is baseless.

The main problem is: YOU KNEW THIS. Because you argued for PAGES IN ANOTHER THREAD that the Demiurge was retconned out. So all your recent arguments these past few months are horsesh1t and have been horsesh1t. And you've been blatantly aware of this the entire time. There's a word I've been using consistently from beginning to end: pathetic.

It's as apt a word as any to describe this recent crusade of misinformation of your's. Especially because you yourself are largely responsible for highlighting the finer points when arguing under a different context. Get lost.

Tar-Antado
It would be cool if they make Gaea to be Brio of life, the Proemial god.

zopzop
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Shut up already. You not only admitted that this handbook evidence from 2007 doesn't overturn the actual on-panel retcons from Chaos War in 2010. Who the phuck cares about your flip-flopping on this. You're making the same god damn arguments based on the same exact evidence that WhiteWitchKing threw at you and you dismissed it completely out of turn. Now that it's convenient for you to accept it you will? Who the phuck cares about your flip-flopping. The main retcon is the Amatsu-Mikaboshi and Gaea retcon.
Yeah, it wasn't just Hera. How unsurpising that when you finally found all the issues I've been telling you to read, you managed to gloss over all the corroboration and confirmation and evidence. And like you said multiple times to people who ASKED SAME EXACT QUESTIONS OF YOU: Set was retconned in Secret Avengers, Chthon and Oshtur haven't had their new origins told yet. As for Atum, the simplest answer is the most likely: Atum can still be Gaea's son, but as there is no Demiurge, she birthed him immaculately on her own. Shut the phuck up with your trolling. You quanchiwaffled like a flopping fish. Every argument you're peddling now, you rebutted fiercely for pages and pages on end in a different thread. Every rebuttal of mine here mirrors your arguments in the other thread.

The bottom-line is this: Chaos War is the most recent evidence and it evidences a retcon that leaves no place for the Demiurge. You already accept that significant portion of the retcon involving Amatsu-Mikaboshi so your disbelief in Gaea's portion (equally important) is a complete farce. Since there is no strictly biospheric entity Demiurge, there is no chain of BSE from origin to Elder Gods to Skyfathers. Accordingly, your argument that the Elder Gods and Skyfathers are just pieces of the Demiurge that are snackables for DP Tyrant is baseless.

The main problem is: YOU KNEW THIS. Because you argued for PAGES IN ANOTHER THREAD that the Demiurge was retconned out. So all your recent arguments these past few months are horsesh1t and have been horsesh1t. And you've been blatantly aware of this the entire time. There's a word I've been using consistently from beginning to end: pathetic.

It's as apt a word as any to describe this recent crusade of misinformation of your's. Especially because you yourself are largely responsible for highlighting the finer points when arguing under a different context. Get lost.

Chaos War is the most recent issue this is true. And even if we assume Gaea's origin was retconned, it was sloppy writing since that leaves Chthon, Set, Oshtur and Atum/Demogorge without origin stories.

That's the ONLY point you have. Bringing up the debatable nature of the character "Abyss" mentioned in the Secret Avengers does nothing. No one has conclusive proof one way or another if Set was that being, "Abyss". Even my respect thread for Set left out the "Abyss" scans because who "Abyss" is, is in dispute.

That one panel in CW, that supposedly retcons 30+ years of Marvel continuity and has NO explaination for the origins of Chthon and crew, is the only legit point you've brought up so far.

If that one panel isn't a retcon and merely a retelling of events from the view of the Greek Pantheon, Tyrant's BSE based powers and abilities win it for him.

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by zopzop
Chaos War is the most recent multi-issue long storyline this is true. And even if we assume know Gaea's origin was retconned as I already admitted and argued to others in a different thread Fixed and shortened to point out all that is relevant in your mewling schpeal. Originally posted by zopzop
That's the ONLY point you have. What else do I need to prove what a lying fraud you've been this entire time? Pleading from ignorance that you're not aware of Supergod Hercules source of true power, i.e., Gaea, arguing that Demiurge was still in continuity, arguing that Gaea and Set are just pieces of the Demiurge. It was all bullsh1t for your flava of the month character, DP Tyrant and you knew it: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=547590&pagenumber=1 Originally posted by zopzop
If that one panel isn't a retcon and merely a retelling of events from the view of the Greek Pantheon, Tyrant's BSE based powers and abilities win it for him. Keep pretending that you don't know that Supergod Hercules, Amatsu-Mikaboshi, Gaea and Eternity corroborated the relevant parts of the retcon told by Hera about BOTH Amatsu-Mikaboshi AND Gaea. And that Amatsu-Mikaboshi's feats and Gaea's empowerment of Supergod Hercules to nearly match Chaos King prove it.

If I had delicate sensibilities, they'd be offended. At this point, your sh1t lies stink like any other sh1t lies I've encountered on KMC. The sad thing is, you dug your own grave in another thread and provided all the counter-arguments to the deflections and red herrings you're offering now. Or you're just copying all of the deflections and red herrings that were presented to you and you never believed back then.

The only surprising thing is you were so committed that even after being exposed, you subjected yourself to arguing with yourself for pages across two threads. Hall of Fame for you, bud.

Igniz
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Demiurge hasn't been seen on-panel since 1989. In any event, you're likely not aware of what Hercules w/ omniscience, Amatsu-Mikaboshi, Gaea and Eternity all confirmed that Amatsu-Mikaboshi was the universal void before anything in Chaos War and its tie-ins. They all corroborated the foreshadowing by Hera that Amatsu-Mikaboshi was the void. And Amatsu-Mikaboshi's eventual absorption of multiple planets, panethons, etc. confirmed their words so it wasn't all mere aggrandization.

Gaea herself confirmed that she was the first thing formed spontaneously and she was the true font of creation. This further coroborated the accoun told by Hera. And Supergod Hercules found his true All-Father status in Gaea's embrace and nearly became Chaos King's peer so it isn't just mere aggrandization.

If they're all right -- and they all corroborate each other and the levels of power exhibited support it too -- Gaea came first out of the void. She, not the Demiurge, was the source of all the gods. She was not one sibling among hordes along with other Elder Gods.

Like zopzop said. Until Gaea is retconned back, Demiurge is retconned out.

I know about that scene were Gaea stated she was the font of creation.Font(Noun)-a specific size and style of type within a type family.

Then here's the scene were Thrann(A Zenn-lanian God) is telling the creation story of the Marvel Universe.

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/igniz5/OriginOfMU1.jpg?t=1303176334
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/igniz5/OriginOfMU2.jpg?t=1303176492

And then there's Siri Uli who mentions she is Mother to many.Creation is a Joy as seen here.

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/igniz5/GodofZenn-laFallslikecosmicleaves1.jpg?t=1303176777

Point is.Gaea,Thrann and Siri Uli are different from one another but belonging to the same type.They are all Fonts of Creation in their respective pantheon or planet that they are Gods.They are all telling creation in their own point of view.If we take all of this to account, To my point of view, the Demiurge hasn't been retconned.

dmills
Originally posted by zopzop
Of course I've addressed in. But you don't like it so you ignore it.

Galactus CAN attempt to eat the Gods since according to on panel information AND the handbooks they are nothing more than BSE given form by mortal minds.

The PROBLEM for Galactus is, sans his machines, his BSE absorption abilities are nowhere near as good as Tyrant's (since Tyrant showed the ability to absorb and amp off even SYNTESIZED BSE on the fly).

Hasn't he devoured or gone into the process of eating the realms of elder gods sans tech?

janus77
doesn't Galactus munch on "biospheric energies" for a greater purpose? he can consume the universe, I'm guessing his stomach doesn't quibble with the types of energies it gets.

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by Igniz
I know about that scene were Gaea stated she was the font of creation.Font(Noun)-a specific size and style of type within a type family.

Then here's the scene were Thrann(A Zenn-lanian God) is telling the creation story of the Marvel Universe.

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/igniz5/OriginOfMU1.jpg?t=1303176334
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/igniz5/OriginOfMU2.jpg?t=1303176492

And then there's Siri Uli who mentions she is Mother to many.Creation is a Joy as seen here.

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/igniz5/GodofZenn-laFallslikecosmicleaves1.jpg?t=1303176777

Point is.Gaea,Thrann and Siri Uli are different from one another but belonging to the same type.They are all Fonts of Creation in their respective pantheon or planet that they are Gods.They are all telling creation in their own point of view.If we take all of this to account, To my point of view, the Demiurge hasn't been retconned. That's not what font meant, you're using the typeface definition. Font is another word for fount or source.

Thrann mentions a void and a Prime Mover who created everything and a cosmic plane from which he was birthed; Thrann himself only gave light to the mortals, not other gods. Siri Uli mentions she has been mother to many, she is not specific as to whether she means gods or not. In any event, neither of them have anything to do with Gaea forming out of the void spontaneously and Gaea birthing the Earth's pantheons. And Gaea's new origin, confirmed by both her and Hera, leave no room for an amorphous energy entity, Demiurge, who evolved from the Earth, well after the void was filled with the universe. You can believe what you like, but I am at a loss at how to explain it any clearer.

Horrificus
Originally posted by janus77
doesn't Galactus munch on "biospheric energies" for a greater purpose? he can consume the universe, I'm guessing his stomach doesn't quibble with the types of energies it gets. I though G has been made sick from eating certain entities or races. I can't remember the book though.

h1a8
This thread is spite. I think Odin alone can take DP Tyrant.

Horrificus
Originally posted by h1a8
This thread is spite. I think Odin alone can take DP Tyrant. You see? You did it!!

You have returned as "The Voice of Reason"!

Good for you! clapping

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.