Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Which villain?

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/10/100693/1868101-dominus04_large.jpg

vs

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/2/29735/686827-psylocke36_large.jpg

jamie

Any Dominus feats? I haven't read anything with that character in.

Jamie always interests me though. During the House of M when Scarlet Witch was warping the 616 universe Jamie seemed the only person "outside" her influence. That's pretty powerful.

Jamie Braddock.

And I thought he currently isn't a villain anymore?

Is Jamie multiverse or universal? I forget.

he's alive

imho...jamie>jaspers

bump for Operator, since he knows the deal!

Jamie Braddock doesn't have multiversal feats, he has multi-universal, such as playing with alternate earths (which was stated but not shown, he was only shown to be playing with 1), he also was able to literally control an excalibur comic book (as ridiculous as that sounds). In short, he can control the cosmic strings that binds everything together, but a shapeshifter (like Megaan) was able to break off his control, so that's all dominus has to do, really, shapeshift. That, and he has better feats, which are fully multiversal.

dominus wins.

^^ If "shape-shifting" is Dominus' only defense, then he gets obliterated by Jamie.

Jamie struggled at first since he had never dealt with that before,
but he quickly learned and manhandled Rachel and Meggan simultaneously.

Aside from partaking in Omniversal influence,
and controlling entire universes from outside said universes (even 4th wall style)
Jamie warped an infinite multiversal Nexus (WHR) like child's play.

Jamie also laughed at having his consciousness spread across the omniverse by Scatterbrain,
he then turned her own power against her.

MJJ>/= Jamie > Dominus

Originally posted by Mr Master
^^ If "shape-shifting" is Dominus' only defense, then he gets obliterated by Jamie.

Jamie struggled at first since he had never dealt with that before,
but he quickly learned and manhandled Rachel and Meggan simultaneously.

Aside from partaking in Omniversal influence,
and controlling entire universes from outside said universes (even 4th wall style)
Jamie warped an infinite multiversal Nexus (WHR) like child's play.

Jamie also laughed at having his consciousness spread across the omniverse by Scatterbrain,
he then turned her own power against her.

How does he get obliterated?

Originally posted by Golgo13

How does he get obliterated?
Jamie twitches a finger, and the stars of the universe are on his dome piece. stoned

Originally posted by Mr Master
Jamie twitches a finger, and the stars of the universe are on his dome piece. stoned

Not that easy, IMO. I know you're kidding, though.

Originally posted by Golgo13

Not that easy, IMO. I know you're kidding, though.
Depending on how powerful Dominus is.

But I wasn't kidding about what Jamie could do.

btw. I just flipped some pages and I had forgotten Jamie adapted to Kitty, not Meggan.

opr616 was correct about how Meggan's "shape-shifting" abilities
were beyond Jamie's control in that issue.

My bad opr616.

Still though, Jamie doesn't have to warp his target directly, to affect it.

Like I said, stars from the heavens to the dome piece ftw.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Depending on how powerful Dominus is.

But I wasn't kidding about what Jamie could do.

btw. I just flipped some pages and I had forgotten Jamie adapted to Kitty, not Meggan.

opr616 was correct about how Meggan's "shape-shifting" abilities
were beyond Jamie's control in that issue.

My bad opr616.

Still though, Jamie doesn't have to warp his target directly, to affect it.

Like I said, stars from the heavens to the dome piece ftw.

He's a multiversal level being. He won't go down that easy.

Dominus wins.

Originally posted by Mr Master


Jamie also laughed at having his consciousness spread across the omniverse by Scatterbrain,
he then turned her own power against her.

controlling entire universes from outside said universes (even 4th wall style)

Jamie warped an infinite multiversal Nexus (WHR) like child's play.



Scatterbrain's 'omniversal level' mental attack is a joke, tbh, this attack of hers fails half the times she tries to use it, to give 3 examples:

Excalibur #45 (a mind guided by another, far distant for her to affect):

http://i.imgur.com/DS871b2.jpg


Marvel comics Presents #174:

http://i.imgur.com/Qk9Vz2b.jpg

Excalibur #42, against gatecrasher.

http://i.imgur.com/iRBI3t7.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/0nDMh2V.jpg


if her power was indeed 'omniversal' she wouldn't have a problem affecting her target, no matter what.


pretty sure there are other instances (reed in FF v3 #7, and fury, in DD #11), ill post them if needed.

-

Already mentioned that, and his performance in that issue (excalibur #27) is his most impressive. In which i admtted that it should be considered as being a multi-universal feats (affecting a couple of universes, but not the entire multiverse)

-

Yeah, forgot about that, after rechecking that uncanny x men issue, seems that you're right. It also seems that jamie was the one who merged fury and jaspers together (something hinted in Jamie's bio as well).

nothing dominus couldn't handle, though.

i don't believe Jamie is winning against Dominus, here are a few of his feats (im also posting this, since people seem to under-estimate him)


he created 4 alternate realities for superman (im just going to post the bios, seeing how he did all that off panel)

2008 bio (dc encyclopedia):

http://i.imgur.com/Kw0dTmy.jpg?1

2002 bio (superman: the ultimate guide to the man of steel):

http://i.imgur.com/K9kq5vf.jpg?1

merges the 4 realities, easily (superman v2 #138):

http://i.imgur.com/nWGx1PT.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/QizB108.jpg


same issue, it is revealed that he managed to warp all reality (multiverse) - ( in an attempt to draw out Kismet, the illuminator of all realities):

http://i.imgur.com/p96jq3G.jpg


Dominus is a threat to all universes:

http://i.imgur.com/CoMrvri.jpg

action comics #748: Dominus forces superman to bear the madness of the entire multiverse:

http://i.imgur.com/OC6rkb9.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/61BwHFR.jpg

i could post more, but ill leave it here, also to clarify: Prior to his defeat, dominus was severely weakened, which was due to his own reality shifts. This was stated in Superman: Man of steel #89, which chronologcally, takes place directly before superman: the king of the world.

Dominus wins

Wasn't the multiverse severely limited at the time of Dominus?

Still though, Jamie has to be the biggest glass canon in comics. He's lost what like twice to Brian? Got killed by Brian's body, and got dropped by Psylocke? Among others.

As I recall, Dominus did affect Kismet, who's a featless abstract being...

Against Superman and other characters, his reality warping was limited though. They built off of "alpha" brain waves, and couldn't do anything against the theta brainwaves of a sleeping person.

So Superman defeated him by learning T-Vo, which is a kind of meditative state for Kryptonian berserkers, putting them in a waking theta state.

^kismet isn't featless, she can percieve various realities simultanously, helped destroy imperiex armor, bio says that she can control every basic aspect of the universe (or something like that), she was also porrayed as being a peer to eternity in the canon crossover JLA/Avengers.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Wasn't the multiverse severely limited at the time of Dominus?

Still though, Jamie has to be the biggest glass canon in comics. He's lost what like twice to Brian? Got killed by Brian's body, and got dropped by Psylocke? Among others.

the multiverse wasn't even supposed to exist. Possible explanation would be that the batman/planetary: night on earth said that the COIE event resulted in a partial (not full) multiversal collapse:

http://i.imgur.com/Zsxo4R0.jpg

the crossover is canon, unlike other elseworlds, it doesn't have an elseworld logo, so it's canon, and the writer confirmed it in an interview (currently searching for it), it takes place somewhere around planetary #9.

though i do feel uncomfortable disregarding one of DC's biggest events, and how initially it was portrayed.


I don't believe brian ever over powered Jamie, no. Meggan with her shape-shifting abilities resisted him, and betsy shoved her knife into his throat

So Dominus effecting a sizable multiverse is... questionable to say the least is what you're saying?




In Excalibur 19 he was beating up Jamie, though he lost. In Excalibur Annual 2, he dropped when he locked gay gazes with Brian. I believe there was another time, but can't remember.

Betsy used Brian's body to snap his neck though.

^^ Yea, Jamie is an insane reality warper, almost on a goof scale,
which is why ridiculousness surrounds him.

He gets beat up by Brian, or even Meggan, but then manipulates Brian via dreams,
creates most of a universe, or controls a whole universe via a real world comic,
toys with alternate universes, displays temporal control, defeats Cosmic Concepts,
he was even the major player (behind the scenes) in the Chaos Wave incident.
(seemingly unaffected by it as well)

So, he's all over the place due to the nature of his character.
Originally posted by operator616

Scatterbrain's 'omniversal level' mental attack is a joke, tbh,
this attack of hers fails half the times she tries to use it, to give 3 examples:

Excalibur #45 (a mind guided by another, far distant for her to affect):

http://i.imgur.com/DS871b2.jpg

Marvel comics Presents #174:

http://i.imgur.com/Qk9Vz2b.jpg

Excalibur #42, against gatecrasher.

http://i.imgur.com/iRBI3t7.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/0nDMh2V.jpg
Those are stipulated scenarios friend.

Exc. #45 = she tried to affect a "dead mind" ...

MCP #174 = she tried to affect "a brain the size of a pea" ...

Exc. #42 = she wasn't trying to hurt Gatecrasher ...
Originally posted by operator616

if her power was indeed 'omniversal' she wouldn't have a problem affecting her target,
no matter what.
Her power isn't 'omniversal' ... her affect is constricted to one individual at a time.
Meaning, she can't reach targets at a distance, she has to touch them.
The affect of her is 'omniversal' upon the target solely.
Originally posted by operator616

pretty sure there are other instances (reed in FF v3 #7, and fury, in DD #11),
ill post them if needed.
I have the issues, and been through them many years ago, so no need.

Reed is another stipulated scenario, his "consciousness is pliable like his body."

The Fury? Come on friend, that's ... The Fury.
Originally posted by operator616

Yeah, forgot about that, after rechecking that uncanny x men issue, seems that
you're right. It also seems that jamie was the one who merged fury and jaspers
together (something hinted in Jamie's bio as well).

... That's his top feat, since that's a Multiversal Nexus.

"Id" told me, he did some crazy uber stuff in some recent depiction I haven't seen.

Multiverse was infinite at the time Dominus affected it.

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc301/Bariman1987/Superboy%20Hypertension/Superboy62p02.jpg

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/16715415_The_Kingdom_2_036.jpg

^ Also, Dominus himself has an 'infinite domain' (superman v2 #139)

http://i.imgur.com/PUdJpQT.jpg

bio:

http://i.imgur.com/uqxfmn9.jpg?1

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
So Dominus effecting a sizable multiverse is... questionable to say the least is what you're saying?




In Excalibur 19 he was beating up Jamie, though he lost. In Excalibur Annual 2, he dropped when he locked gay gazes with Brian. I believe there was another time, but can't remember.

Betsy used Brian's body to snap his neck though.

No that's not what i was saying, my response was in regards to the reason as to why DC was referencing the multiverse, even though it was not supposed to exist, thus i posted a scan where it says there was a partial multiversal collapse, which may explain a few things.


Excalibur 19: you said it yourself, brian lost, better yet, with a single finger, no? Not to mention that it was a version of jamie that was empowered by 616 Jamie

kitty witnessed this while she was in 616:

http://i.imgur.com/X9OmQas.jpg

and Jamie's bio (2005) confirms:

http://i.imgur.com/GFyiT0C.jpg?1

Excalibur annual #2: brian never beat jamie there, he punched him, then they looked into each others eyes, after which jamie fainted.

yes she did (i initially thought you were referring to Excalibur #56, when you said psylocke dropped him), but it was an unexpected attack, brian (forced by betsy) came in from behind and ambushed jamie who was fighting right beside brian against the goat monk (who himself was an alternate version of jamie inhabited by the goat devil, and was threatening the entire omniverse via the omniversal tower, pretty much like surtur) - from uncanny x force #23:

http://i.imgur.com/c8rjStF.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/8YchCB9.jpg

And it's not like Jamie was going to harm brian either, so.....

still don't see when Brian beat Jamie.

Originally posted by operator616

Excalibur 19: you said it yourself, brian lost, better yet, with a
single finger, no? Not to mention that it was a version of jamie that
was empowered by 616 Jamie

kitty witnessed this while she was in 616:
http://i.imgur.com/X9OmQas.jpg
and Jamie's bio (2005) confirms:
http://i.imgur.com/GFyiT0C.jpg?1
It should also be noted:
that 616 Jamie empowered that alternate Jamie via a 'doll' lol while sitting in 616,
and basically made that alt. Jamie 'God' of that Alt. Reality.
Originally posted by operator616

yes she did (i initially thought you were referring to Excalibur #56,
when you said psylocke dropped him), but it was an unexpected
attack, brian (forced by betsy) came in from behind and ambushed
jamie who was fighting right beside brian against the goat monk
(who himself was an alternate version of jamie inhabited by the
goat devil, and was threatening the entire omniverse via the
omniversal tower, pretty much like surtur) - from uncanny x force #23:

And it's not like Jamie was going to harm brian either, so.....
So those are from the latest showings. Thanx, I hadn't researched this.

I was told Jamie did something uber, or something was stated about him.
Do you know about any of this friend?
Originally posted by operator616

still don't see when Brian beat Jamie.
I think we all know, even if it did happen, it was certainly not due to overpowering,
rather, and rather certainly some plot driven comedy.

It was stated that he was going to break the fabric of reality if he uses his powers any longer when he was fighting goat's army:

http://i.imgur.com/O06Oa6J.jpg

that's the most impressive thing that Jamie had to offer. But his alternate version (the goat) managed to actually spread his influence across the entire omniverse (through the tower of the omniverse) and become omni-God , temporarily:

http://i.imgur.com/C09uQMP.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/54LJl4q.jpg

After which betsy/brian killed the 616 Jamie, and the goat was erased (since he was a future version of jamie)

^^ Holy! ... Jamie's future-self at that point was 'God of the Omniverse' it seems
and had it not been for the plot of taking out his Present-self,
we can say he was/became/becoming ... the supreme being, ... sorta?

I gotta read all of this, I was given the #s but forgot em,
can you indulge me opr and tell me dem issue #s?

uncanny x-force #20-23.

Originally posted by operator616
No that's not what i was saying, my response was in regards to the reason as to why DC was referencing the multiverse, even though it was not supposed to exist, thus i posted a scan where it says there was a partial multiversal collapse, which may explain a few things.


Excalibur 19: you said it yourself, brian lost, better yet, with a single finger, no? Not to mention that it was a version of jamie that was empowered by 616 Jamie

kitty witnessed this while she was in 616:

http://i.imgur.com/X9OmQas.jpg

and Jamie's bio (2005) confirms:

http://i.imgur.com/GFyiT0C.jpg?1

Excalibur annual #2: brian never beat jamie there, he punched him, then they looked into each others eyes, after which jamie fainted.

yes she did (i initially thought you were referring to Excalibur #56, when you said psylocke dropped him), but it was an unexpected attack, brian (forced by betsy) came in from behind and ambushed jamie who was fighting right beside brian against the goat monk (who himself was an alternate version of jamie inhabited by the goat devil, and was threatening the entire omniverse via the omniversal tower, pretty much like surtur) - from uncanny x force #23:

http://i.imgur.com/c8rjStF.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/8YchCB9.jpg

And it's not like Jamie was going to harm brian either, so.....

still don't see when Brian beat Jamie. Which still makes the size questionable.

I'm not sure if you're agreeing or arguing with me about Jamie... but you're basically repeating everything I said, but with scans and more words.

In any case. Yes, because Brian is an Iron Man level being. Of course he should get one shotted, though he wasn't out...
And that empowered Jamie got punched out by Meggan shapeshifting into Colossus

So... what you're saying is that Jamie dropped when he was fighting Brian due to gay gazes? So... he lost? Brian beat Jamie. Glad that's settled.

You've literally posted Brian's body "killing" Jamie while he had time to retaliate, and repeatedly said Psylocke knocked him out. I know you want to look like you know everything about comics, but you're only helping farther his durability being trash.

Hmm.....so you think the fact that it was an alternate jamie that was empowered by the 616 jamie isn't worth mentioning, right? because you certainly didn't. I was adding context to that, not merely adding words for amusement.

That doesn't count as a loss. Tell me what exactly did brian do to jamie so that he lost his consciousness? because after the punch jamie seemed fine. After which jamie fainted (brian wasn't the cause of this)

Heh it seems you completely missed the point. For instance, when you say that Jamie got killed by brian's body (along with your previous post in which you claimed that jamie lost twice to brian), how do you think people would interpret that (those who haven't read the issue)? - they would think that Brian over-powered jamie in a direct encounter, no? when in fact it was an unexpected attack from behind (not to mention, unlike in his other encunters, jamie wouldn't have used lethal force). So now you're going to antagonize me just because i added context to the instance, yes? Funny though......considering i never even said that Jamie's durability is great.

Originally posted by operator616
Hmm.....so you think the fact that it was an alternate jamie that was empowered by the 616 jamie isn't worth mentioning, right? because you certainly didn't. I was adding context to that, not merely adding words for amusement.

That doesn't count as a loss. Tell me what exactly did brian do to jamie so that he lost his consciousness? because after the punch jamie seemed fine. After which jamie fainted (brian wasn't the cause of this)

Heh it seems you completely missed the point. For instance, when you say that Jamie got killed by brian's body (along with your previous post in which you claimed that jamie lost twice to brian), how do you think people would interpret that (those who haven't read the issue)? - they would think that Brian over-powered jamie in a direct encounter, no? when in fact it was an unexpected attack from behind (not to mention, unlike in his other encunters, jamie wouldn't have used lethal force). So now you're going to antagonize me just because i added context to the instance, yes? Funny though......considering i never even said that Jamie's durability is great. Should I dwell on a Jamie that seemed just as powerful or something? Hell, he was supposedly powering up an already existing Jamie. Though the end can be twisted

So Jamie going into a coma doesn't count as a loss?
Scared, came to a realization that all he did was violence, brain overloaded from mucking with memories, delayed reaction to the punch. It could have been a number of things. However, all end with him losing.

I missed the point? Because I'm pretty sure I brought up the whole point of Jamie being a glass canon... let me check again... yes, yes I did. Him losing to Brian was just a reason why he was a glass canon, not the point. Seems you missed the point... actually, agreed entirely with it, but just wanted to be verbose in the reasons why his defense is trash because heaven forbid everyone doesn't know you read the issues and the accompanying bios.

I never said he beat him there. As you'll notice I separated the instances between losses and the neck snapping. I said he snapped his neck, which he did. Because Jamie is made of glass. He's a Godlike being with absolutely dreadful durability. You give Brian the same opportunity to break any other universal level power's neck, and I doubt the list would be long... could probably go to Skyfather for that matter.

Also, when I said he lost twice, that was a question, because I wasn't sure as I wasn't studying up on the thread before I posted. Not a claim.

I didn't get your first point.

Jamie went into coma, yeah, but you haven't given me a reason as to why you're attributing jamie's loss of consciousness to brian, even though the way i see it, it had nothing to do with him. You just listed a number of reasons (aside from Brian) why Jamie lost his consciousness, then you claim that Brian beat Jamie?..........

I get that you're going from a more antagonistic approach, for some reason, even though i did nothing to provoke such hostility, but you're still not getting what i was trying to say (which was the point i was trying to make). First off, you asked a question if jamie lost twice to brian, my response was: no. Then you went on to give me examples. I countered it by adding context and supporting it with evidence, because context is the crucial part, not the result (which is - Jamie 'lost', because in the end, every villain 'loses'). That is to say, jamie never lost/got over powered by Brian, in a direct head on encounter. Get it now? apparently in your personal dictionary adding context = being wordy.

Never even disputed the fact that Jamie's durability isn't as impressive as his power.

It was a question at first, then you went on and gave me examples and even cited the issues. So i responded accordingly.

JB

Originally posted by guy222
JB

Get's his neck snapped.

Originally posted by operator616
I didn't get your first point.

Jamie went into coma, yeah, but you haven't given me a reason as to why you're attributing jamie's loss of consciousness to brian, even though the way i see it, it had nothing to do with him. You just listed a number of reasons (aside from Brian) why Jamie lost his consciousness, then you claim that Brian beat Jamie?..........

I get that you're going from a more antagonistic approach, for some reason, even though i did nothing to provoke such hostility, but you're still not getting what i was trying to say (which was the point i was trying to make). First off, you asked a question if jamie lost twice to brian, my response was: no. Then you went on to give me examples. I countered it by adding context and supporting it with evidence, because context is the crucial part, not the result (which is - Jamie 'lost', because in the end, every villain 'loses'). That is to say, jamie never lost/got over powered by Brian, in a direct head on encounter. Get it now? apparently in your personal dictionary adding context = being wordy.

Never even disputed the fact that Jamie's durability isn't as impressive as his power.

It was a question at first, then you went on and gave me examples and even cited the issues. So i responded accordingly. I listed a bunch of possible reasons since iirc the reason wasn't given. But lol at the reasons not having to do with Brian. A delayed reaction, or him being scared of Brian have nothing to do with him. And him possibly being overloaded from doing too much aren't the best either.
Simply put, Brian hit him, they locked eyes. Jamie went into a coma.
Not a loss!

Because you're annoying. Why else?

And my whole point that I brought up was that Jamie was a glass canon. The examples being brought up back that up. The only context relevant in his durability is if he was weakened or hurt before hand, or something along those lines.
The only relevant one was the one with the alternate Jamie who seemed just as powerful as normal Jamie.

You're not disputing Jamie being a glass canon, you just wanted to defend when he went to sleep against Brian. And you're not defending his durability, you just want to defend some small issues where his durability was bad.
Along the same lines of you 'not' defending his durability, I never said anything about his power. In fact glass cannon in itself means I think he's powerful, so the whole "He didn't overpower him" isn't exactly relevant to anything I said. Though breaking his neck that way doesn't look good.

I gave you examples along with what happened and then you basically repeated what I said, but with scans that don't exactly change anything, just for the sake of posting them. I bet if I would have mentioned Living Tribunal somewhere along those lines you'd have posted scans of LT just to show you have an idea about the guy.

Anyway, Jamie gets glassed here.