Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

I've been curious about this for some time, for a while I believed a individual using both light side and dark side powers would be more powerful than an individual using purely one or the other.

However when reading about Revan, it started to become clear to me that there is no such thing as one path being all powerful.

Thus the way I see it is that using both light and dark side powers simultaneously has its advantages, and its disadvantages.

My question to you is, do you think the advantages outweigh the disadvantages?

And furthermore could what do you feel is the list of Advantages, and disadvantages?

IE
Advantages
1.
2.
3.
etc.

Disadvantages
1.
2.
3.
etc.

Advantages:
1. Versatility. Using both sides gives you an edge in any fight.
Even with use of lightsaber not all Sith Lords and Jedi masters are capable to defend against Force lightning, it requires not just power but talent or being gifted in that ability.
Same for Force choke, not everyone is capable to break from it.
However, Jedi needs to use those abilities on limited level as killing using Force directly is one of the worth things for a Jedi to commit.

2. Darkside gives you power.
Drawing on anger is an extra source of power. Jacen Solo in addition apart from anger embraced pain, which gave him even more power but he is the only one I know to use pain to strengthen himself. There are more ways of how to become much more powerful but it wouldn't be Jedi anymore.

3. Understanding of the darkness. If Jedi can use darkside power, it can help him to defend against them. When Jaina used Force lightning on Kyp Durron, he didn't even try to absorb it in hands, it just harmlessly dissipated on him. He stated that it is because he mastered it but it is also due to his unique abilities.

Disadvantages:

1. Oneness with the Force. It can be experienced by some Jedi mostly ones in their life and even being the wisest and strongest Jedi doesn't guaranty that it will ever be experienced. Jedi won't experience it, if he uses darkside powers. Jacen Solo is one of the brightest examples of using both sides, however, when he fought Onimi, he embraced himself in lightside in its purest form.

2. Self-control and clear mind. Also, using darkside gives extra power and versatility it might affect your thinking and accuracy. Anger makes you reckless and you are more likely to make mistakes.

3. When dealing with powerful Sith Lord, using darkside can make it easier for him to influence that Jedi. Specifically anger is better to be avoided completely. Luke wanted to defeat reborn Palpatine from within. He didn't want to turn to darkside, just understand how it works, yet, he ended up being consumed in darkness and even mind dominated. Sith Emperor was able to mind dominate both Revan and Malak because they were already too close to darkness after war.


As conclusion there are lots of factors to determine, when it is better or not.
It largely depends on personality. Anakin Skywalker was simply unable to use lightside only, using anger came to him naturally. Jaden Korr had Force lightning forming on his hands involuntarily. Mace Windu had darkness in him and found way to use it.
Luke Skywalker as master strictly used light side only and I can recall plenty of situations, where use of Force choke or lightning would make his life much easier but it is his morality and it is what makes him above others in other situations, where those powers would be useless.

Even with use of both sides the power of Jedi is nothing to what power proper darksider can gain. When it comes to fight of a lifetime with someone like Palpatine, Jedi must use only lightside, otherwise he is doomed.

If all you have in mind is combat, then the Dark Side is usually the way to go. But seeing as how life, even for the very evil, is about more than just fighting, then the Dark Side is a horrible disadvantage... realistically speaking. I mean, within the fictional universe, the mental and emotion spectrum exists at a very dumbed down level.


But from a real world perspective, the Dark Side is never the way to go. I've always equated the obsession with extreme emotions like hate and rage, coupled with insatiable greed, paranoia, and distrust, as a sign of insanity. Not the "what a crazy notion" kind of insane; the literal, psychologically insane. In the real world, it'd be a horrifying experience living like that, day in, day out, every moment and second devoted to intense negative emotions. The Light Siders may not get a power boost in combat, but I'll take the patient, passive, compassionate, empathetical lifestyle over a Dark Sider's hell any day.

The neutral Jedi, the Jedi from Switzerland, the grey Jedi. Sounds legit.

Could a pure light side user be just as destructive as a pure dark side user?

I just am a bit confused, I have heard that there is no light side and dark side, but purely just the force and that it is the user that limits what it can do? Or am I incorrect?

I suppose my question is, in terms of potential is an individual who can use both dark side and light side the most powerful?

Trying to grasp potentials here, or in terms of extreme is one way or the other the way to go?

Originally posted by Board Walker
Could a pure light side user be just as destructive as a pure dark side user?

I just am a bit confused, I have heard that there is no light side and dark side, but purely just the force and that it is the user that limits what it can do? Or am I incorrect?

I suppose my question is, in terms of potential is an individual who can use both dark side and light side the most powerful?

Trying to grasp potentials here, or in terms of extreme is one way or the other the way to go? For sheer power, the Dark has consistenly been shown to offer more. In terms of stability and prosperity, the Light has been shown to offer more. Also note: the extreme Dark or extreme Light isn't the same as aligning with extreme Sith or Jedi doctrines.


And the non-aligned Force field of thought in-universe is called the Potentium. Most Jedi dismissed it as heretical and dangerous.

Mace/Vaapad is a prime example. Vaapad allowed him to tap both the light AND dark side, while maintaining complete control over said aspects. Upon so doing, he unmasked a power that allowed him to best Palpatine himself.

That being said, a being who maintains absolute control (that is the key) over the light and dark sides can potentially tap into a reservoir of power well beyond what either side is capable of individually. Imo.

Originally posted by Galan007
Mace/Vaapad is a prime example. Vaapad allowed him to tap both the light AND dark side, while maintaining complete control over said aspects. Upon so doing, he unmasked a power that allowed him to best Palpatine himself.

That being said, a being who maintains absolute control (that is the key) over the light and dark sides can potentially tap into a reservoir of power well beyond what either side is capable of individually. Imo.
My perception is also similar.

Such level of control requires great understanding of the Force and only those individuals can accomplish this who study all aspects of the Force or think beyond the boundaries of pure Jedi and Sith philosophies.

Revan is another good example;

Instead of charging forward, he opened himself up to the Force, letting both the light and the dark side flow through him like twin rushing rivers. But instead of focusing or channeling the Force, he released it in its purest form.

There was brilliant flash as the air between the two combatants lit up. The energy unleashed was powerful enough to send Revan staggering. The Emperor, unprepared and with much of his strength diverted to his effort to dominate Revan's mind, was sent flying backward. (Source: SWTOR - Revan)

With this single feat, Revan not just caught Vitiate off-guard but made a joke out of him.

Originally posted by Galan007
Mace/Vaapad is a prime example. Vaapad allowed him to tap both the light AND dark side, while maintaining complete control over said aspects. Upon so doing, he unmasked a power that allowed him to best Palpatine himself.

That being said, a being who maintains absolute control (that is the key) over the light and dark sides can potentially tap into a reservoir of power well beyond what either side is capable of individually. Imo.

Kind of like "In the Zone" Anakin. He was still a Jedi but using his hate as a tool to boost his power, yet staying focused and in control.

With this single feat, Revan not just caught Vitiate off-guard but made a joke out of him. I thought it was Vitiate, who made joke out of Revan by electrocuting him. It was good example of how much more powerful pure darksider can be, than some hybrid. Plainly speaking by using both sides Revan managed to give stronger Force push but it is not something "beyond of what either side could give". And obviously Revan used darkside on limited level, he was at most using his anger, which would never be equal to how Sith angry can be. Also, I assume he imbued himself with darkside energy surrounding that place but it shows versatility of using all tools available.


Jacen Solo is the best example to follow such philosophy. Yet, during fight with Onimi he was at perfect calm. He didn't take his lightsaber with him. He didn't try to counter attack, he was only receiving and embracing attacks. There was huge sense of moral ground. And at the end Onimi's body started restoring to its original form. The light was emanating from him.
In that display there was no anger, no hatred, no passion, there was not a single hint of darkside, it was only positive feelings and motives associated with lightside.

However, the very same philosophy was his downfall to the darkside. The very thinking of yourself beyond something is already self-centering that leads to darkside. Such understanding was heretic by Jedi not without reason. And the person that taught it to Jacen was Sith herself.

Studying all aspects of the Force leads to personality degradation. In other words its a very darkside thing to use Force in all aspects. Only Sith don't limit themselves.

So as I stated before using both sides gives versatility and edge in a battle but it never gave power beyond dark and light side. Throughout the whole EU the most enormous and destructive things were done by pure darksiders and the most miraculous things and best lightsaber fits by pure lightsiders.

Revan feat of using both the Light and Dark sides is a complete joke imo. All it did was make a big bang. Is Drew that much of a hack that he can't come up with something a little more impressive than that? Revan should have saved the effort and just used a freaking Force Push. Same result.

rofl


But don't forget this is Drew K. We are talking about. Apparently "the full power of the force" can only blow up a droid.

Originally posted by ares834
rofl


But don't forget this is Drew K. We are talking about. Apparently "the full power of the force" can only blow up a droid. The most powerful droid of them all!

Originally posted by Arhael
I thought it was Vitiate, who made joke out of Revan by electrocuting him. It was good example of how much more powerful pure darksider can be, than some hybrid.
Vitiate' ownage came after Revan' ownage. Simple.

Both of them made a statement; however, Vitiate had over a 1000 years to improve his command of the Force and also experience. This would certainly make difference.

Yes, we have Yoda analogy too - but Vitiate was not hindered by Jedi philosophy in his quest to gain power.

Originally posted by Arhael
Plainly speaking by using both sides Revan managed to give stronger Force push but it is not something "beyond of what either side could give". And obviously Revan used darkside on limited level, he was at most using his anger, which would never be equal to how Sith angry can be. Also, I assume he imbued himself with darkside energy surrounding that place but it shows versatility of using all tools available.
That wasn't the best Revan could do. He did not focused or channeled that power, remember?

Revan was trying to break free from the telepathic assault of Vitiate ASAP. Their was no time to think. Hence, the talk of 'state of mind' is useless in this situation.

Originally posted by Arhael
Jacen Solo is the best example to follow such philosophy. Yet, during fight with Onimi he was at perfect calm. He didn't take his lightsaber with him. He didn't try to counter attack, he was only receiving and embracing attacks. There was huge sense of moral ground. And at the end Onimi's body started restoring to its original form. The light was emanating from him.
In that display there was no anger, no hatred, no passion, there was not a single hint of darkside, it was only positive feelings and motives associated with lightside.

However, the very same philosophy was his downfall to the darkside. The very thinking of yourself beyond something is already self-centering that leads to darkside. Such understanding was heretic by Jedi not without reason. And the person that taught it to Jacen was Sith herself.

Studying all aspects of the Force leads to personality degradation. In other words its a very darkside thing to use Force in all aspects. Only Sith don't limit themselves.
Solo could not control or handle such a practice for long. In contrast, Revan accomplished almost perfect balance between both aspects. This practice will not lead to personality degradation, just because Solo failed.

This is akin to Mace and Sora Bulq on Vaapad.

Originally posted by Arhael
So as I stated before using both sides gives versatility and edge in a battle but it never gave power beyond dark and light side. Throughout the whole EU the most enormous and destructive things were done by pure darksiders and the most miraculous things and best lightsaber fits by pure lightsiders.
- Mace defeated Palpatine?

- Revan overpowered Vitiate amidst under attack?

In both of these cases, a weaker opponent managed to overcome a stronger opponent with the aforementioned ability.

Now you cannot expect a dark sider who is weaker then Palpatine to overcome him in a duel on the basis of 'strength' unless circumstances permit or exceptions exist. Same is true for the light sider.

Even in a clash between the dark and light, the stronger individual usually wins or is more likely to win, unless the circumstances favor the weaker individual or exceptions exist.

Using both the light and dark sides is not an easy task. It requires great command of the Force. Very few got access to this kind of power. This is the reason of lack of feats.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Revan feat of using both the Light and Dark sides is a complete joke imo. All it did was make a big bang. Is Drew that much of a hack that he can't come up with something a little more impressive than that? Revan should have saved the effort and just used a freaking Force Push. Same result.
If you were expecting planet shattering power then you will feel disappointed and it also goes against the purpose of the story.

However, Drew left a hint for a reason; Revan did not focused or channel the power he gathered by using both the Light and Dark sides of the Force.

The feat itself was not a joke but a display of immense understanding of Revan of the Force. Revan was under telepathic assault and he wanted to break free. He did not had time to think. I don't understand that why you fail to get this point. It isn't rocket science.

And you are fooling yourself, if you think that Force push would have worked against Vitiate. Remember that the Force push did not work against an Elite Guard, whose resistance was being augmented by the power of the Sith Emperor.

Originally posted by ares834
rofl


But don't forget this is Drew K. We are talking about. Apparently "the full power of the force" can only blow up a droid.
Your logic is flawed. Don't focus on the opponent.

Focus on what the attack did to the opponent. The droid exploded in to a million pieces.

Did not get the point?

Here is an analogy;

Attack 1: Force lightning is unleashed on 4 opponents (human beings) and it kills all of them. But bodies are in good shape.

Attack 2: Force lightning is unleashed on a single opponent (human) and it rips the opponent apart.

Which attack is more powerful?

Vitiate' ownage came after Revan' ownage. Simple.
Being Force pushed is considered ownage? Ok


Jedi Knight was less powerful than Revan and pure lightsider. Oops!

Ye, he just casually waved his hands and sparkles flew over the place. It was as focused as it could be. What would be the best he could do?

The whole thing is about state of mind. The darkside powers themselves are coming from negative emotions. Unless, Revan imbued himself by dark energy surrounding him, which I assumed earlier.

Before that fight Solo was comfortably using Force lightning and using his own suffering to become stronger, which is already beyond of what Revan could.

How do you know that?

I didn't relate specifically to that practice. You said that it is important to learn all aspects of the Force. It includes draining life energy from others, mind domination, feeding on suffering, fear and anger of others, killing with Force directly. You can do so much with darkside but who will you be after practicing such aspects?

They both fought were powerful foes and fought on equal terms. Being able to execute successful kick is not a miraculous thing. And you can't give the whole credit to vaapad for winning. Vaapad is just something, which suited Mace individuality that allowed him fighting at his best. But saying that vaapad is such a great and overhelming factor in a fight is just lame.


Oh... Overpowered Vitiate? Ok.


There are far more variables to consider than just power. Especially, since Full-fledged Sith with equal potential in most cases will be more powerful, than any lightsider or hybrid.

In other words it is only a theory without a single substantial fact.


Since you were saying that it gives power beyond what light and dark side can offer individually, why not?

Anakin used light and darkside powers the whole Jedi time and defeated Dooku. Maybe we give him this credit as well?

Originally posted by Arhael
Being Force pushed is considered ownage? Ok
It is not a simple Force push, genius.

It was a blast of power which send Vitiate flying in backwards direction much away from Revan. This does seems like ownage for such a powerful individual.

Originally posted by Arhael
Jedi Knight was less powerful than Revan and pure lightsider. Oops!
And the basis of your claim is?

Originally posted by Arhael
Ye, he just casually waved his hands and sparkles flew over the place. It was as focused as it could be. What would be the best he could do?
Revan did not waved his hand, genius. He indirectly unleashed a blast of power.

But instead of focusing or channeling the Force, he released it in its purest form. (Source: SWTOR - Revan)

He could focus or channel that power for much more destructive results, if he wanted to. But their was no time for this feat during confrontation with Vitiate.

Originally posted by Arhael
The whole thing is about state of mind. The darkside powers themselves are coming from negative emotions. Unless, Revan imbued himself by dark energy surrounding him, which I assumed earlier.
We don't know about Revan' state of mind at that moment. He was trying to break free from the telepathic grip of Vitiate. This is all we know for now.

Originally posted by Arhael
Before that fight Solo was comfortably using Force lightning and using his own suffering to become stronger, which is already beyond of what Revan could.
Are you really this naive? Solo was doing what a trained Sith can do. Revan can do the same.

Originally posted by Arhael
How do you know that?
This;

In those days, he had believed this would protect him from the dark side, but he no longer had any such illusions. He was older and wiser. He understood that the two sides of the Force were more closely intertwined with each other than either the Jedi or the Sith would ever admit. He had learned to balance on the knife-edge between them, drawing on both the light and dark sides for strength. (Source: SWTOR - Revan)

Originally posted by Arhael
I didn't relate specifically to that practice. You said that it is important to learn all aspects of the Force. It includes draining life energy from others, mind domination, feeding on suffering, fear and anger of others, killing with Force directly. You can do so much with darkside but who will you be after practicing such aspects?
It is important to study the Force in all of its aspects for those who want to gain command of both the light and dark sides of the Force and find a balance between them.

The techniques can be tested on enemies and droids.

Originally posted by Arhael
They both fought were powerful foes and fought on equal terms. Being able to execute successful kick is not a miraculous thing. And you can't give the whole credit to vaapad for winning. Vaapad is just something, which suited Mace individuality that allowed him fighting at his best. But saying that vaapad is such a great and overhelming factor in a fight is just lame.
Mace is not Sidious' equal in combat. He went toe-to-toe with Sidious because of Vaapad.

Originally posted by Arhael
Oh... Overpowered Vitiate? Ok.
Yes, Revan overpowered Vitiate with that blast of power.

Originally posted by Arhael
There are far more variables to consider than just power. Especially, since Full-fledged Sith with equal potential in most cases will be more powerful, than any lightsider or hybrid.
This statement of mine covers your point: unless the circumstances favor the weaker individual or exceptions exist.

Originally posted by Arhael
In other words it is only a theory without a single substantial fact.
This is not a theory. It is not easy to create a balance between both the Light and Dark sides of the Force without succumbing to the Dark side specially. Many tried but few succeeded.

Originally posted by Arhael
Since you were saying that it gives power beyond what light and dark side can offer individually, why not?
Revan' intention was not to cause destruction but to break free from the telepathic grip of Vitiate. Try to understand the difference.

Originally posted by Arhael
Anakin used light and darkside powers the whole Jedi time and defeated Dooku. Maybe we give him this credit as well?
Only during final clash with Dooku, Anakin used his emotions to fuel his power, as the Sith goaded him in to doing so. He was headstrong but still a Jedi.

And he succumbed to the dark side very easily and soon became a firm Sith. He did not found a balance between the Light and Dark sides of the Force. Therefore, his example is invalid.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Only during final clash with Dooku, Anakin used his emotions to fuel his power, as the Sith goaded him in to doing so. He was headstrong but still a Jedi.

And he succumbed to the dark side very easily and soon became a firm Sith. He did not found a balance between the Light and Dark sides of the Force. Therefore, his example is invalid.

That was later after he was having visions of Padme's death.

At the moment he found that clarity though, that moment he tooled Dooku, but stayed in control, I would say yes he probably was using a good combination of Light and Dark sides of the Force.

It is not a simple Force push, genius.

It was a blast of power which send Vitiate flying in backwards direction much away from Revan. This does seems like ownage for such a powerful individual.
Yes, it wasn't simple Force push. It was strong Force push.



That his fancy use of both sides didn't give Revan the power to overcome pure darksider.


That was sarcasm...

He didn't channel but he did focus. Focusing can be instantaneous, you know.


We, also, don't know what was the source of those darkside powers. It's actually fail from writer to dismiss emotional state as it is the main factor in what way Force is used. So really we can only guess what those light and darkside powers were about.


No, he can't. Jacen is the only known Sith to channel his own pain into power. Maybe there were a few others but Revan doesn't fall under this category.


He understood, he learned to balance... But it is all his personal opinion of the Force that is not guaranteed to be true and most effective.


So if it is your enemy, then it is alright to test on him mind domination, Force choke him and feed on his fear at the same time, e.g. Ye, that's fine. I will not succumb to darkside, I'll just test how it works, so I have something to balance on later.

No, he is equal in combat. Not equal in power, if to be precise. Vaapad believer!

"caught of guard".


No, it doesn't.


It's a fact that using both sides gives you versatility an certain advantages in a fight. Yet, there is not a single evidence of it giving power beyond what light and dark sides can give individually.


Intention don't matter, it didn't give him power to defeat Vitiate. Using darkside prevented him from becoming Champion of the light.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD



Mace is not Sidious' equal in combat. He went toe-to-toe with Sidious because of Vaapad.




??? Vapaad is Mace's primary combat tool.

I tend to make a habit of ignoring SWL, but Arhael's post compelled me to take a look:



This is hands down the funniest thing I've ever read on this site.

So what is the list of individuals who have this philosophy like Revan, that light and dark side are one and the same in truth and power.

1. Revan
2. Jacen Solo

Did Luke Skywalker use both light side and dark side powers, and did he believe the force is also one (both dark and light side intertwined).

At least in the Dark Nest Saga the Jedi Order used Force Lightning and drew upon the darkside. They even used torture during that period, until Luke got uncomfortable about the whole thing.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
If you were expecting planet shattering power then you will feel disappointed and it also goes against the purpose of the story.

However, Drew left a hint for a reason; Revan did not focused or channel the power he gathered by using both the Light and Dark sides of the Force.

The feat itself was not a joke but a display of immense understanding of Revan of the Force. Revan was under telepathic assault and he wanted to break free. He did not had time to think. I don't understand that why you fail to get this point. It isn't rocket science.

And you are fooling yourself, if you think that Force push would have worked against Vitiate. Remember that the Force push did not work against an Elite Guard, whose resistance was being augmented by the power of the Sith Emperor.

Nope, you're incorrect on that. Revan knew about the telepathic assault beforehand and had planned a way to counter it, even going so far as to teach this method to Scourge and the Exile. When the Emperor started his attack Revan knew what to do and did it. He was obviously not surprised by Vitiates assault nor was he reacting in desperation.

I was being flippant about the Force Push to indicate the extreme inadequacy of the attack. The Light and Dark sides in their most pure form = Less powerful than a hand genade. Rofl. It really makes Vader look like a blustering moron in ANH huh? But Force Push not working on the guards is very interesting. Who was using it on them? To be unaffected by beyond Master-level combatants Force Pushes as all of Revan's team was is a useful and powerful ability.

So what is the list of individuals who have this philosophy like Revan, that light and dark side are one and the same in truth and power.

1. Revan
2. Jacen Solo
Jaden Korr. In Crosscurrent novel he had a lot of doubts about himself and darkness in him. Force lightning was forming quite naturally and involuntarily on his hands.
It wasn't really about his Force understanding but his personality.

He lost in lightsaber fight to Kam Solusar's clone, yet, he was able to kill him.
At the end he accepted his doubts, that true Jedi should never stop search for answers.
I am waiting for sequel novel.


Did Luke Skywalker use both light side and dark side powers, and did he believe the force is also one (both dark and light side intertwined). God no! Luke is pure lightsider. The only time he attempted to understand darkside was, when Palpatine returned but failed. Since he never used darkside again.
His morals were very high about it. In one of the novels he stated that killing someone with Force directly is the worth thing to commit.
Believing that Force is one is heretic by Jedi teachings. And unlike Jacen he never thought about it on such deep level, he was simple farmer after all, in other words naively good. But what he did state after what happened to Jacen is that you cannot commit smaller bad things for greater good. Jedi are not looking for simple solutions and value every single life.

In dark nest he started Force choking Welk but then quickly amended himself as it is against his morals. And Welk had lightsaber on him, while Luke's was broken, so he would rather put himself in danger, than use darkside.
The only one he killed using Force directly was one of the Slayers in final fight With Yuuzhan Vong but he did it with Electric Jadgement, which is not darkside power and he couldn't feel Vong death anyway.
There is an image depicting Luke using Force lightning/Electric Judgement on Gorog killiks but it is falce as it never happened in the novel.

Well, it was only Mara and only at one point, when she got pissed off with Alima Rar. Otherwise none of them used Force lightning or drawing on darkside. About torturing you are probably right but it was more like experimenting on killik(s) they took captive, can't remember details.

Originally posted by Arhael
Yes, it wasn't simple Force push. It was strong Force push.
It wasn't. It was a blast of power.

Force push is a focused Telekinetic power.

Originally posted by Arhael
That his fancy use of both sides didn't give Revan the power to overcome pure darksider.
Revan overpowered Vitiate when he used this capability. This is the point. I am not talking about the whole duel.

Originally posted by Arhael
That was sarcasm...
Ok.

Originally posted by Arhael
He didn't channel but he did focus. Focusing can be instantaneous, you know.
No, he did not focused. Pay attention to the canonical statement:

But instead of focusing or channeling the Force, he released it in its purest form.

Don't argue for just the sake of argument. Try to understand the point.

Originally posted by Arhael
We, also, don't know what was the source of those darkside powers. It's actually fail from writer to dismiss emotional state as it is the main factor in what way Force is used. So really we can only guess what those light and darkside powers were about.
Agreed.

Originally posted by Arhael
No, he can't. Jacen is the only known Sith to channel his own pain into power. Maybe there were a few others but Revan doesn't fall under this category.
Sion is another. Malgus is also capable of doing this, I believe.

And we cannot boldly exclude Revan from the equation, given his command of the Force. We don't know his full capabilities yet.

Originally posted by Arhael
He understood, he learned to balance... But it is all his personal opinion of the Force that is not guaranteed to be true and most effective.
It is. Revan found great clarity in the Force and managed to use both the Light and Dark sides to draw strength, even simultaneously and did not succumbed to the dark side in doing so. This is sufficient evidence.

Originally posted by Arhael
So if it is your enemy, then it is alright to test on him mind domination, Force choke him and feed on his fear at the same time, e.g. Ye, that's fine. I will not succumb to darkside, I'll just test how it works, so I have something to balance on later.
So it is wrong to defend yourself? Morality is not the point here.

Also, a Force-user who does not restricts himself to Jedi philosophy may not restrict his offensive moves accordingly. Simple.

Originally posted by Arhael
No, he is equal in combat. Not equal in power, if to be precise. Vaapad believer!

"caught of guard".
I did not get your point. Can you elaborate?

Originally posted by Arhael
No, it doesn't.
My point is that stronger individual typically dominates in a fight unless the circumstances or exceptions favor the weaker opponent. Where am I wrong? Or do you assume that the stronger individual is typically more stupid too?

Originally posted by Arhael
It's a fact that using both sides gives you versatility an certain advantages in a fight. Yet, there is not a single evidence of it giving power beyond what light and dark sides can give individually.
This is open to debate.

Originally posted by Arhael
Intention don't matter, it didn't give him power to defeat Vitiate. Using darkside prevented him from becoming Champion of the light.
Because Revan did not continously used the capability. When Revan did, he actually dominated his opponent. This is the point.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Nope, you're incorrect on that. Revan knew about the telepathic assault beforehand and had planned a way to counter it, even going so far as to teach this method to Scourge and the Exile. When the Emperor started his attack Revan knew what to do and did it. He was obviously not surprised by Vitiates assault nor was he reacting in desperation.
Revan was certainly prepared this time. However, it did not accomplish his objective through any well-defined defensive technique. He performed a unique feat in doing so - a feat which goes beyond the philosophies of both the Jedi and Sith.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I was being flippant about the Force Push to indicate the extreme inadequacy of the attack. The Light and Dark sides in their most pure form = Less powerful than a hand genade. Rofl. It really makes Vader look like a blustering moron in ANH huh?
My friend, the energy released was much stronger then a grenade explosion for sure. Grenades and rockets did not even budged Malgus. Vitiate is on a whole new level in comparison.

Also, the energy was not released in a focused manner or properly channeled against a target. It was released in raw form and dissipated rather quickly. The hall itself was huge so damage did not occur or Drew failed to delve in to details. It seems as if he rushed the novel for release because several parts of the story seem to be underdeveloped.

Originally posted by Nephthys
But Force Push not working on the guards is very interesting. Who was using it on them? To be unaffected by beyond Master-level combatants Force Pushes as all of Revan's team was is a useful and powerful ability.
Revan Force-pushed an Elite guard who confronted him outside the hall of the Sith Emperor but it did not work. The elite guard was still standing because he was directly drawing power from the Sith Emperor.

It wasn't. It was a blast of power.

Force push is a focused Telekinetic power.
Call it whatever. Describing each Force push as Force push would be too boring and uncreative of writers. Telekinesis is definition for moving objects without touching them. Vitiate is an object, he was moved without touching. Conclusion?
Really, mechanics are irrelevant to me, so it is pointless to try to prove anything to me about it.


The Emperor, unprepared and with much of his strength diverted to his effort to dominate Revan's mind, was sent flying backward. Doesn't look like overpowering.

Ok Ok. Like I must remember each word exactly. I should have used word "exertion". -_-.

Sion is good example, though it worked different way, more like price for immortality. But Malgus couldn't embrace pain.

Hmm, I thought there was lvl50 Revan boss in ToR with full capabilities


It didn't give him power beyond what light and dark could give individually. This is sufficient evidence. He just built his own understanding of the Force, which just happened to prove useless against Vitiate.



That is very Sith logic.

Tired on elaborating as you keep stating that Revan overpowered Vitiate, when he never did.

Typically strength is not deciding factor and each fighter has his own advantages. Typically Sith are always more powerful and practiced in combat much harder than Jedi, yet, history shows that Sith keep loosing. Jedi Knight enters Vitiate's chamber(enemies field) with nothing but lightsaber... and than defeats Vitiate. Where are specific circumstances and exceptions favoring Jedi?

Now he dominated Vitiate? Just for fun sake I will ask: WHEN?

Originally posted by Arhael
Call it whatever. Describing each Force push as Force push would be too boring and uncreative of writers. Telekinesis is definition for moving objects without touching them. Vitiate is an object, he was moved without touching. Conclusion?
Really, mechanics are irrelevant to me, so it is pointless to try to prove anything to me about it.
It is not a pre-defined application of Telekinesis. It is a blast of energy in raw form.

Originally posted by Arhael
The Emperor, unprepared and with much of his strength diverted to his effort to dominate Revan's mind, was sent flying backward. Doesn't look like overpowering.
Do you think that Vitiate could be Force-pushed around? No.

I wonder what Revan could accomplish, if he would focus or channel such power towards the target.

Originally posted by Arhael
Sion is good example, though it worked different way, more like price for immortality. But Malgus couldn't embrace pain.
Malgus could endure pain for sure.

Originally posted by Arhael
Hmm, I thought there was lvl50 Revan boss in ToR with full capabilities
Not necessarily. Though he demonstrated a rarely known technique at the end of his duel - Fold space. He also performed Force Lightning Storm.

Originally posted by Arhael
It didn't give him power beyond what light and dark could give individually. This is sufficient evidence. He just built his own understanding of the Force, which just happened to prove useless against Vitiate.
How did it proved to be useless against Vitiate? He managed to prevent Vitiate from dominating his mind.

Originally posted by Arhael
That is very Sith logic.
Indeed.

Originally posted by Arhael
Tired on elaborating as you keep stating that Revan overpowered Vitiate, when he never did.
This is a matter of opinion. I am not forcing you to accept mine. Point is that using both the Light and Dark sides of the Force simultaneously to draw strength - is very effective.

Originally posted by Arhael
Typically strength is not deciding factor and each fighter has his own advantages. Typically Sith are always more powerful and practiced in combat much harder than Jedi, yet, history shows that Sith keep loosing. Jedi Knight enters Vitiate's chamber(enemies field) with nothing but lightsaber... and than defeats Vitiate. Where are specific circumstances and exceptions favoring Jedi?
People are underestimating this Jedi Knight. Also, Vitiate ended up at the wrong end of his blade somehow. In addition, Jedi Knight killed an avatar of Vitiate - not him exactly.

Originally posted by Arhael
Now he dominated Vitiate? Just for fun sake I will ask: WHEN?
Seems like domination to me. Your opinion can differ.

It is not a pre-defined application of Telekinesis. It is a blast of energy in raw form. Force push is, also, a blast of energy as it does not requires to grasp the object you are pushing. That is why Jedi are waving hand as they are sending energy that "blasts" the target.

While Vitiate is heavily concentrating on mind-domination why not?

Trying to ignore the pain to prevent getting too weak and embracing it as source of power to get stronger is not quite same things.

Fock ye

He could prevent him by throwing lightsaber instead. Irrelevant as Revan lost anyway.


I don't underestimate him as he was true Jedi using lightside only, which puts him above Revan.

It was Vitiate himself. Then he transfered his essence to a new avatar. If, in your opinion, it was his Force projection, then you are seriously over-hyping him.

Originally posted by Arhael
Force push is, also, a blast of energy as it does not requires to grasp the object you are pushing. That is why Jedi are waving hand as they are sending energy that "blasts" the target.
Force push is a focused application of TK.

Revan released the energy he gathered in a raw form without raising any hand. It was not an application of TK.

Originally posted by Arhael
While Vitiate is heavily concentrating on mind-domination why not?
Revan was not taking any chances while he was being bombarded by telepathic powers.

Originally posted by Arhael
Trying to ignore the pain to prevent getting too weak and embracing it as source of power to get stronger is not quite same things.
Fine.

Originally posted by Arhael
Fock ye


Originally posted by Arhael
He could prevent him by throwing lightsaber instead.
Do you think that this was so easy? Vitiate' telepathic assault was too formidable to give ample time to the opponent to experiment with counter-moves. It was a game of seconds.

Originally posted by Arhael
I don't underestimate him as he was true Jedi using lightside only, which puts him above Revan.
No comments, in this case. Just keep in mind that Revan was the Jedi Order' greatest champion.

Originally posted by Arhael
It was Vitiate himself. Then he transfered his essence to a new avatar. If, in your opinion, it was his Force projection, then you are seriously over-hyping him.
That individual was also an avatar.

Revan released the energy he gathered in a raw form without raising any hand. It was not an application of TK.
Now you spoiled my imagination as I imagined him making that double handed Liu Kang move! Come on, let's not be precise. There are plenty of similar feats, when someone instantaneously made someone or something fly away and every time it is described in different way. In Jedi Academy Force push ability was sending multiple foes instantaneously. It is of course lame example but I prefer to generalize things that cause exactly same effect.


kenshin2

You know, I actually believe that he was champion of light during fight with Malak. Considering that he just turned Bastilla back to light he had plenty of positive emotions in him. Plus the fact that this fight was deciding fate of the galaxy should have eliminated any hints of dark emotions and turned into grim determination. There is fare chance that he used only lightside.


It was very same way Palpatine changed essences. But don't worry, with new update he will come back stronger, than before. Jedi Knight will need to up 10 more levels and become Jedi Master before killing him.

???

Originally posted by Rogue Gladiator
???
Revan did not Force-pushed Vitiate. He released the energy he gathered in raw form.

Kinda like what Bane did during his fight with Kas'im, which was a TK attack.

This thread was very informative, has anymore information been released regarding Revan and his unique use of dark and light side powers simultaneously as one?

Furthermore are there any extreme light side users that are violent, destructive? Basically extreme light side users with no jedi mindset to restrain them? Like...Light Side sith users, same mentality as sith but use light side powers.

Light Side: 1. Oneness with the Living Force, carrying out the Will of the Force. Dark Side Oneness pales in comparison to the Light Side Oneness that Jacen Solo and Luke attained because the Will of the Force empowers them with omnipotence, as much power as they need to defeat their foe.

2. Compassion is a lot more stable of an amp than hatred. When Yoda, Luke, and Galen Marek used the effects of the Light Side to give them power and focus.

Dark Side:

1. Sorcery, generally a Dark Side ability because it allows the Sith to harness unnatural and evil forces that far exceed any ability of the Light Side at the cost of the Sith wielding them. As with Nihilus being a wound, it decayed his body to a corpse and made him a slave to his hunger. As for Sidious, again is decayed his body. Using gauntlets and amulets and weapons of unspeakable monstrous power like the Dark Staff really destroys the Siths who wield them, or in the case of the Dark Staff consumes them with Force Drain. However, some sorcery does the opposite, it empowers the Sith and allows them to instantly kill, totally dominate minds, regenerate, and become immortal - Vitiate's Force Drain rituals, Plagueis' Midichlorian manipulation, Sidious' Essence Transfer, Darth Krayt's Dark Transfer.

2. Hatred can be stronger than compassion, though less stable, and can be channeled in a form of Dark Side Oneness to invigorate a Sith with greater focus and power; Zonakin, Bane, Malgus, etc.

Originally posted by Galan007
Mace/Vaapad is a prime example. Vaapad allowed him to tap both the light AND dark side, while maintaining complete control over said aspects. Upon so doing, he unmasked a power that allowed him to best Palpatine himself.

That being said, a being who maintains absolute control (that is the key) over the light and dark sides can potentially tap into a reservoir of power well beyond what either side is capable of individually. Imo.

My sentiments are similar. The living force is said to encompass both the dark (destructive) and light side (sustaining).

So even Sith use some aspect of the lightside, since the power that sustains life comes from there.

I don't believe the dark is inherently evil, but it certainly represents the destructive side of the force. Which means that when a Jedi uses - let's say TK - to destroy something, he's using the darkside, even if there's no sith technique behind it.

Originally posted by Allankles
My sentiments are similar. The living force is said to encompass both the dark (destructive) and light side (sustaining).

So even Sith use some aspect of the lightside, since the power that sustains life comes from there.

I don't believe the dark is inherently evil, but it certainly represents the destructive side of the force. Which means that when a Jedi uses - let's say TK - to destroy something, he's using the darkside, even if there's no sith technique behind it. The Will of the Force has empowered every character to the extent necessary to carry out its design.

Could you show me an example of a dark sider exhibiting oneness with the force?

Both sides can achieve oneness with the force right?

Pretty sure their lack of harmony prevents that, when it comes to the Sith.

Yep. Jedi let the force guide them. The Sith attempt to impose their own wills on the force.

Originally posted by Board Walker
Could you show me an example of a dark sider exhibiting oneness with the force?

Both sides can achieve oneness with the force right?
Malgus appears to fit the bill.

Originally posted by Dolos
The Will of the Force has empowered every character to the extent necessary to carry out its design.

True, but the likes of the Sith and mad people like Daala and other war lords insist on resisting the will of the force. Causing unbelievable amounts of destruction in the process - to organic and inorganic life.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Malgus appears to fit the bill.

No he didn't. He was out of balance - a dark side fanatic.

Originally posted by Allankles
No he didn't. He was out of balance - a dark side fanatic.
Malgus reached oneness condition prior to his confrontation with Sith Lord Adraas. I think that he was in similar state when he cut down Jedi Master Kao Cen Darach.

The will of the force doesn't involve cutting down a decent guy.
The dark side is just part of the whole, but doesn't represent its will.
So no, not Malgus.

Yes Malgus.

"He resided in the calm eye of a storm of hate. Power churned around him, within him. He did not feel as if he were drawing on the Force, using it. He felt as if he were the Force, as if he had merged with it." - Deceived.

That sounds pretty close to me.

That doesn't mean he was doing the will of the force. The dark side can never balance, nor can it ever represent the fulfilled will of the force.

Sorry but waxing rhetoric about how hate (of all things) made him feel centered doesn't have much of anything
to do with doing the will of the force, which is singular - in every given
scenario - and not divisible.

The force grants free will though, and a mad warrior is entitled to do
what he wants - it's just not going to be the will of the force.

The will of the force is like the will of God, which is to grant life to
all, animate and inanimate, and have them possess that life abundantly.
It's not to kill, maim or destroy. When Jedi do this, they do it in self defense
granting them a reprieve in their conscience and though they feel
sorrowful for the lost, they believe that even the force will eventually
guide and use such action to bring about good.

The disadvantage is that you can't use either side of the Force to it's full potential without giving yourself utterly to it.

Originally posted by Nephthys
"He resided in the calm eye of a storm of hate. Power churned around him, within him. He did not feel as if he were drawing on the Force, using it. He felt as if he were the Force, as if he had merged with it." - Deceived.

That sounds pretty close to me.

It also looks extremely subjective, referencing the POV of Malgus. Considering Dark Siders emphasize individuality at the expense of the majority, it seems unlikely they would achieve oneness in any real sense.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
It also looks extremely subjective, referencing the POV of Malgus. Considering Dark Siders emphasize individuality at the expense of the majority, it seems unlikely they would achieve oneness in any real sense.

Wisdom.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
It also looks extremely subjective, referencing the POV of Malgus. Considering Dark Siders emphasize individuality at the expense of the majority, it seems unlikely they would achieve oneness in any real sense.

Except for the fact that Malgus' power vastly improved upon achieving this state, to the point where he was able to easily overpower Aryn Leneer with lightning, where in their previous fight she was able to block his lightning in midair. The paragrath after that first quote states:

"He had evolved. Nothing split his loyalties any longer. He served the Force and only the Force, and his understanding of it increased daily."

So he's not just blowing it out of his ass, he did get a boost to his power and Force mastery from this.

Anyway, I merely said that he came close. As close as a darksider can get in my estimation (and Sidious').

I find it hard to believe that only light siders can achieve oneness with the force, i believe both light and dark can achieve oneness. Wouldnt anakin skywalker be a dark sider that achieved oneness with the force when he fought dooku? As he used hate and anger.

It's not about being a 'lightsider' (some lightsiders are the worst actually) it's about not being a murdering, fanatical, rabid, blindly hating pank.

And since the dark side is where, fear and destruction lie, it cannot bring balance and it cannot achieve oneness on its own. It needs the will of the living force which would encompass both light and dark.

A jedi can use the dark side, but if they're balanced, they don't let said application consume them. Even just the desire to use the dark side is kept in check within.

A sith is a bit like a wanton and spoilt child by comparison.

Originally posted by Board Walker
I find it hard to believe that only light siders can achieve oneness with the force, i believe both light and dark can achieve oneness. Wouldnt anakin skywalker be a dark sider that achieved oneness with the force when he fought dooku? As he used hate and anger.

The thing about the Dark Side is it is very much about bending the force to you.

The Light Side, is very much about following the will/flow of the force.


What Anakin did against Dooku was basically using his chosen one powers to bend the force to him very, very well. But it's still not immersing himself as much in the force as it is when he's doing it lightside and truly letting the force flow through him.


And it should be noted, oneness happens much more often to Lightsiders. I can think of two darksider oneness-ish moments, that being one of them. There's something like a dozen instances of lightsiders pulling it.

So oneness with the force can be achieved by both pure light and dark, as well as a mixture of light and dark. It all depends upon the person's state of mind, not desiring to bend the force to their will, but rather flowing with it?

So a dark side user could be one with the force through the dark side if they simply let it control them purely and meld with its will?

Originally posted by Board Walker
So oneness with the force can be achieved by both pure light and dark, as well as a mixture of light and dark. It all depends upon the person's state of mind, not desiring to bend the force to their will, but rather flowing with it?

So a dark side user could be one with the force through the dark side if they simply let it control them purely and meld with its will?

The darkside by itself can never achieve parity with the will of the force. The force was initially only light, then probably the first disobedience caused the dark side to grow. After that the force compensated.

But at no point is destruction part of the desired will of the force. Oneness can be achieved only by letting the living force guide you. In a battle situation, you can merge with the force through (hate, lust negative) or (trust, freedom). Either path can lead you to victory, but victory for the darkside is not the desired will of the force.

So evil can also kill the force, basically - if every force user went dark.

Is the light side oneness stronger? What kind of amplification are the dark siders receiving during a state of oneness?

The descriptions claim that they are drawing power from "entire Jedi Order."
"... opened more fully to the force ... using his love for... and the entire Jedi Order to draw it into him... "

The Jedi order survived so much heartache and sorrow and destruction not so much because they were the end all be all of organizations, but because they remained loyal to the living force -which as I said is to promote life and have that life be infinitely abundant.

Originally posted by Allankles
The Jedi order survived so much heartache and sorrow and destruction not so much because they were the end all be all of organizations, but because they remained loyal to the living force -which as I said is to promote life and have that life be infinitely abundant. No, it's about keeping balance between creation and destruction throughout the continuity of evolution. It's about maintaining order.

My philosophy for the Living Force is the same as my philosophies toward similar concepts in real life - which falls in between Plagueis' school of thought and Luke Skywalker's school of thought.

In contrast to Luke's view; which asserted that the Force beckons to all of us and that we should go along with it - Plageuis believed that the Living Force, this drive to maintain a certain kind of order between imagined goods and evils, was mere the projection of the collective consensus of all the life that creates the Force - and that the majority should not define the existence of one individual, and that they should be free to make the Force do as they please.

I believe that attempting to overcome the willpower of all living things, and dominate them, is wrong. Pure and simple.

????
interesting.....SWL and Board Walker have a point...
I agree...A extreme light sider is just as dangerous as an extreme dark sider....

my proof? read Darth Plaguis again....look what happened to the Jedi in their willingness
to not change and adapt...look at what the The Force decided to do....the consequences....

Yoda's regret...imo understanding and mastering the light and the dark does have advantages
the only disadvantage I see is giving in to one side over the other.

Revan is a very good example.
The Je'daii Order is another.

Jacen and Anakin are not good examples because they both turned to the darkside...
Jacen had the potential imo when he decided to learn from other Force Organizations...his
techniques were no longer Jedi....

He was on to something new like Revan was...
And for the record that was no Force Push....
it was n't focused or channeled....

imo it was more like Force Repulse or Force Wave or something...
What eliminates Jacen and Anakin from this is they went dark ...
both were using Sith and Dark Jedi powers...

There is nothing that I read or researched saying that they used both sides of the Force...
or mastered both sides like Revan...

Wait .... I thought I was done...The Mortis thing...the game changer and the big what if...
and unanswered question... if Anakin would have stayed and learned every thing from the Father
would he return to the Republic and bring balance that way or Stay on Mortis and bring balance
that way? what do yall think?

In cut content, Yoda pretty much told Obi-Wan to lie to Luke about his parentage and swore the Jedi never to tell Luke, planning to exploit the boy in his proxy war against the Emperor and Vader.

Yoda is a serious dick.

Well, fate of the galaxy and everything. I'd do the exact same personally. You probably would too.

The Father was neither light or dark....he was very powerful...
he mastered both sides and he did defeat the chosen one, Sith, or zone...
whichever it doesn't really matter, he was defeated...and received a powerful memory wipe...
I might add...

imo it's The Father
Revan
Who ever else I'm still looking....I know for sure it's not Anakin or Jacen Solo
as much as you want it to be...they're not...

Originally posted by Nephthys
Well, fate of the galaxy and everything. I'd do the exact same personally. You probably would too.

Sure, I'd manipulate a poor trusting boy who has lost the only family he's known and his own mentor for the sake of thrusting him at my enemy and his fallen father hoping that the guy goes easy on his son or the son is powerful enough to kill them both.

While I was at it, I'd totally be manipulating some swamp frogs into fighting for my amusement.

agreed....that is too much to put on any one especially if he's half trained and almost died by Palpatines Force lightning....

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Sure, I'd manipulate a poor trusting boy who has lost the only family he's known and his own mentor for the sake of thrusting him at my enemy and his fallen father hoping that the guy goes easy on his son or the son is powerful enough to kill them both.

While I was at it, I'd totally be manipulating some swamp frogs into fighting for my amusement.

As opposed to having the boy refuse to fight back i.e. what actually happened, dooming the galaxy if not for a sudden change of heart from Vader? Hell yeah I'd ****ing manipulate him. Needs of the many, b*tch!

Originally posted by Nephthys
As opposed to having the boy refuse to fight back i.e. what actually happened, dooming the galaxy if not for a sudden change of heart from Vader? Hell yeah I'd ****ing manipulate him. Needs of the many, b*tch!

:coldheartbro:

Also, Luke already trusted Obi-Wan like a father even though he barely knew him. It wouldn't hurt his prospects to say "Luke, he's your father but he's corrupted by evil. Learn from his example. Maybe you can save him, but above all you must stop evil. Also, don't bang your sister. It's gross."

I think it would. A force users state of mind plays a big deal in a fight. If Luke was all messed up that he was fighting his father (as he was), his prospects against Vader wouldn't be good.

Well, he got his ass whupped anyways and then got the hidden truth unveiled afterwards. So I'd say the whole point is moot.

Originally posted by Oneness
No, it's about keeping balance between creation and destruction throughout the continuity of evolution. It's about maintaining order.

My philosophy for the Living Force is the same as my philosophies toward similar concepts in real life - which falls in between Plagueis' school of thought and Luke Skywalker's school of thought.

In contrast to Luke's view; which asserted that the Force beckons to all of us and that we should go along with it - Plageuis believed that the Living Force, this drive to maintain a certain kind of order between imagined goods and evils, was mere the projection of the collective consensus of all the life that creates the Force - and that the majority should not define the existence of one individual, and that they should be free to make the Force do as they please.

I believe that attempting to overcome the willpower of all living things, and dominate them, is wrong. Pure and simple.

Cool theory, but life must be preserved at all times if possible. In the case of self defense, you're absolved of taking life - since the taking of a life in such an instance is incidental. Any philosophy that promotes the destruction of life is wrong. The Jedi should have developed non-lethal mechanisms for dealing with Dark Sith Lords and other rogues.

Originally posted by Allankles
Cool theory, but life must be preserved at all times if possible. In the case of self defense, you're absolved of taking life - since the taking of a life in such an instance is incidental. Any philosophy that promotes the destruction of life is wrong. The Jedi should have developed non-lethal mechanisms for dealing with Dark Sith Lords and other rogues.


Back in the KotoR era, they used severe force on some occasions (Ulic), or mind-wiping (Revan). Though I don't think the CW era has either technique, they might've been lost in the Republic Dark Age in the New Sith Wars.


It is pretty darn hard to contain a full-blown sith. Students are brought back from the dark side pretty often, stronger ones are almost always problems.

I agree Q99.....or exile
But let's look at what Revan was trying to do for example....
he discovered another way of using the Force...and the Council was afraid of this change...
just like they abandoned Makashi (Form II ) and Juyo(FormVII)

they thought the Sith were gone...eliminated....
And look what happened,the Sith adapted....none of the light saber styles abandoned...
their whole philosophy has changed....

instead of an army of Sith,they changed to just 2.....
2 Sith through out the millennium brought the Republic to its knees....

The Jedi were kinda bold enough to "try" to learn and study Juyo with maybe a good 4 or 5
learning it to mastery but not capable of expanding it
except 1....

I think I would have taken exile...over severing my connection with the Force....
turn in my light saber....secretly build another and start my own Order......

I think they tried...Allankles.
sometimes self defense don't cut it when it comes to most Sith Lords.....
its either kill or be killed....when you have no other choice....

I think Yoda may have known Sever Force....but probably thought it was too extreme....
I wouldn't be surprised....Yoda knows alot of secrets...took them to the grave...he has....

Then you realise that this Sith Lord almost always great or extreme evil must die.....
there is no cure...no rehabilitation...and if you don't kill him then....possible slavery...extinction...
genocide....decades of pain...misery...etc.

unarmed or not....The Force will understand....you'll save billions....