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Savage Oppress battles Darth Maul in an open arena. No hold barred. Who wins and why?

Hey JT not seen you around these boards in a while.

As for the fight have to go with Savage. He just seems to have achieved a Raw Power in the Force that Maul has not.

And as of the last episode, Maul was having trouble picking up a lightsaber with his TK, so he's not even in tip top shape.

A pure Saber duel however would be interesting. Savage's strength vs Maul's acrobatics and deadly kicks.

Maul.

lol....


if this is Maul from TPM then Maul wins, however if this is Maul from the recent clone wars ep, Mauls gets well Mauled...

I've not seen any version of Maul so far who can push a starship of a cliff, or send 2 Jedi flying around with the Force or Force wave 3 destroyer droids plus several battle droids and 2 Jedi to the floor(Force rage or not).

Until we see anything from Maul in that league with the Force Im giving the Force fight and the All out to Savage.

But like I said a Saber fight would be interesting. Though I doubt Maul could disarm Obi-Wan or Ventress as quickly as Savage did.

Oppress is so strong and powerful because of nightsister magic. It gave him power above any Jedi and most Sith including Dooku. Only Sith like Palpatine are more powerful, since their power is, also, imbued by Sith Sorcery.

Obviously Maul would be at disadvantage but it's not really fair fight.

lol wut? "Power above any Jedi".... lulz

Originally posted by ares834
lol wut? "Power above any Jedi".... lulz
Well, Jedi don't benefit from using anger, feeding on emotions and life energy of others, dark rituals and other empowering external sources.
Jedi win by demonstrating better self-control but Sith - power.
Oppress barely started practicing use of the Force and already showed better feats, than most Jedi masters in their entire life. Force choked Ventress and Dooku simultaneously, resisted Force lightning and gave increadibly strong Force pushes. Would he ever become so powerful without Nightsister magic? I doubt it.

I'm not saying that the Nightsisters' magic didn't amp him but to say he has more power than Mace or Yoda is laughable.

And if you're talking about raw power than Anakin has more by aces.

Originally posted by ares834
I'm not saying that the Nightsisters' magic didn't amp him but to say he has more power than Mace or Yoda is laughable.

And if you're talking about raw power than Anakin has more by aces.
I certainly not talking about raw power. Most of his power comes from magic as I said. Yet, with help of that magic he showed better feats than Anakin.

Obviously he wouldn't beat Yoda and Windu. But if we talk about Force power specifically, Windu at least in films didn't show anything amazing.
Same for Yoda. While Palpatine was throwing multiple platforms and laughing, Yoda had to heavily concentrate to throw single one. In CW he had to put a lot of effort to stop pillar falling on Kenobi and Any. While Oppress needed couple of seconds to push a starship.

Anger of Oppress was boosting his power a lot. For example, that Force wave that knocked over everyone around, I don't know any Jedi that was able to do such thing without anger.
Like, when Anakin woke up with his new Armor at the end of RotS. His anger was so strong that metal structures around were bending and he wasn't even concentrating to specifically bend them. That's kind of power I am talking about that even most powerful Jedi like Yoda couldn't do as they don't use anger or any other sources of power that Sith do.

Originally posted by Arhael
Obviously he wouldn't beat Yoda and Windu. But if we talk about Force power specifically, Windu at least in films didn't show anything amazing.

Lucky this is the EU forum... Heck, in the CW he is shown easily pushing an AT-TE off a cliff.



Nice lowballing... Regardless Yoda has, like Windu, displayed far more power in the EU. He has been shown wiping out entire legions of droids or pwning Ventress with a wave of his hand. But I think a fair and easier point would be to analyze how Yoda and Savage were able to handle Dooku's lightning...



So you're talking about dark side power... But if not then, yes, Yoda would certianly be able to do what Vader did at the end of RotS.

Originally posted by ares834
Lucky this is the EU forum... Heck, in the CW he is shown easily pushing an AT-TE off a cliff.



Nice lowballing... Regardless Yoda has, like Windu, displayed far more power in the EU. He has been shown wiping out entire legions of droids or pwning Ventress with a wave of his hand. But I think a fair and easier point would be to analyze how Yoda and Savage were able to handle Dooku's lightning...



So you're talking about dark side power... But if not then, yes, Yoda would certianly be able to do what Vader did at the end of RotS.
Fine Fine.

By the way about Force lightning. Yoda was sent unconscious after first voley from Palpatine or was it faking?

And we are, yet, to see what Oppress is going to be like after proper training. Force choking Dooku and Ventress is quite not bad for amateur.

Originally posted by Arhael
By the way about Force lightning. Yoda was sent unconscious after first voley from Palpatine or was it faking?

Yeah, he was knocked out but Palpatine's lightning is far more intense than Dooku's.



No it's not. But "after proper training" seems as if if you are indicating raw power...

Ares Im sure Mace would defeat Savage due to far superior combat skills(for now), but in terms of raw power and strength do you really think pushing an AT-TE off a cliff compares to the crap we've seen Savage do??

As for this thread, I think it's clear Maul will be the brains and Savage the muscle of this duo.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Hey JT not seen you around these boards in a while.



Hey man. Been here off and on, mostly reading, not posting. Work keeping me busy.

Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
Hey man. Been here off and on, mostly reading, not posting. Work keeping me busy.

I see. You need to Master the art of pretending to work like I have

xD "hehe" ... Yeah, Savage is more powerful then all jedi except Yoda, and all Sith except Sidious. Mace and Dooku are like a children when it comes to fight him (of course we all know that Ventress is more powerful then Dooku, coz she can force choke Obi and Ani at the same time, and Dooku can do it only to one of them). Yeah...

Ok, anyway: Maul is probably still more powerful then Savage (according to Talzin words).
-I was not strong enough to defeat them all
-(...) You will be
-(...) Who will teach me?
-You have a brother
-A btoher? (...)
-You will find him. He will teach you everything you need to learn to become even more powerful.

On the other hand Savage (thanks by witches magic) has a far greater strenght. Maul is probably still faster (event with mechanical legs), so i bet Maul as a winner.

Ah, and something About Savage - Dooku.

Dooku is still a far more powerful in the force. Yeah, he force choked both Dooku and Ventress. But they both considered him to be defeated (i had some trouble with this sentence, i've hope that you can understand what i mean). He can choked them only by surprise (the same situation was in Asajj vs Ani and Obi case). Now go and look Savage and Ventress vs Dooku, and then Dooku vs Ventress once again. People like Dooku, and even Mace are far above then people like Ventress, Savage, Kenobi etc.

Originally posted by Zett


Ok, anyway: Maul is probably still more powerful then Savage (according to Talzin words).
-I was not strong enough to defeat them all
-(...) You will be
-(...) Who will teach me?
-You have a brother
-A btoher? (...)
-You will find him. He will teach you everything you need to learn to become even more powerful.

That just means he's more knowledgeable and more skilled at using the force. So Savage can learn from him. Doesn't mean he'd beat him in a fight.

Dooku vs Anakin would be a relevant example.

Originally posted by Zett
On the other hand Savage (thanks by witches magic) has a far greater strenght. Maul is probably still faster (event with mechanical legs), so i bet Maul as a winner.

There may be an argument for a pure saber fight. However considering how quickly Savage beat down Obi-Wan, and how long it was taking for Maul to just be "beating" him, I think I'd still put my money on Savage.

Originally posted by Zett
Ah, and something About Savage - Dooku.

Dooku is still a far more powerful in the force. Yeah, he force choked both Dooku and Ventress. But they both considered him to be defeated (i had some trouble with this sentence, i've hope that you can understand what i mean). He can choked them only by surprise (the same situation was in Asajj vs Ani and Obi case).

I don't know about this. Asajj was beating Anakin and Obi-Wan for what? 3 seconds?? And only because they chose not to kill her thereby giving her an oppurtunity for a force attack.

Whilst Savage went on to Throw Ventress and Dooku after that Choke (they couldn't still be surprised), then throw Obi-Wan and Anakin. Then drive them both back in Sabers, then Force wave 3 destroyer droids, a load of battle droids+other droids and Anakin and Obi-Wan all on to their rears.

Also I wouldn't just neglect Ventress's force choke over tose 2. She probably does have better Force TK than either of them.


Originally posted by Zett
Now go and look Savage and Ventress vs Dooku, and then Dooku vs Ventress once again. People like Dooku, and even Mace are far above then people like Ventress, Savage, Kenobi etc.



When Dooku took on both Ventress and Savage, that was before Savage's boost. And still he was able to put Dooku on the floor at one point. Also IIRC it was only Dooku's Force Lightning that kept Savage at bay.

Also Savage is also clearly in a different league to both Ventress and Obi-Wan. They even admitted to being outmatched by the Maul brothers.

And I have one question for you. If Dooku is so much more powerful than Savage, then why is Dooku so worried about him?? I don't see Dooku stressing out over Ventress or Obi-Wan.

Edit- By the way Im not saying Savage as of the present moment would beat Dooku in a Force fight. He still has a lot of control to learn. BUT he has shown the raw power at his disposal, and is on a quest to learn how to control and apply that power properly. A quest which has Dooku worried. Very worried.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
When Dooku took on both Ventress and Savage, that was before Savage's boost. And still he was able to put Dooku on the floor at one point. Also IIRC it was only Dooku's Force Lightning that kept Savage at bay.

It was after boost. He fights Ventress (along with his brother, i cant remember his name) before Savage's boost. When he join to the witchest he gets boosted, and then he becomes Dooku's apprentice.

Man, sorry if write stupid things in this post, but i'm a little drunk.

Originally posted by Zett
It was after boost. He fights Ventress (along with his brother, i cant remember his name) before Savage's boost. When he join to the witchest he gets boosted, and then he becomes Dooku's apprentice.

Man, sorry if write stupid things in this post, but i'm a little drunk.

Took me a while to work out what you were saying but I think I have it now lol.

Right you mean the boost the witches gave him. I was talking about the boost he achieved himself through his rage. When he started choking Ventress and Dooku.

Ok ^^

Hmm i think that Savage's "boost" (like you called it) its not pernament boost - its just momentary rage.

Anyway, even with this rage he is in trouble against force attacks (Ventress's push, Dooku's lightning). On the other hand - Anakin was almost inviolable against Dooku's force powers, when he was under influence of his rage (ROTS novel). So catching Dooku (who probably was too surprised to defend himself) is his only Savage's success.

Ah, and Ventress held Anakin and Obi-Wan about 3 seconds only because of an explosion on the ship.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUI7ujyeL38

Originally posted by Zett
Ok ^^

Hmm i think that Savage's "boost" (like you called it) its not pernament boost - its just momentary rage.

Anyway, even with this rage he is in trouble against force attacks (Ventress's push, Dooku's lightning). On the other hand - Anakin was almost inviolable against Dooku's force powers, when he was under influence of his rage (ROTS novel). So catching Dooku (who probably was too surprised to defend himself) is his only Savage's success.



With Anakin beating Dooku it wasn't just a one-off rage thing. It was a moment of clarity he had about how he can use his anger.(ROTS Novel)

I believe a similar thing happened with Savage. Because it was too long a boost and too big a part of the story to put down as a one-off. If it was just a temporary one-off then what was the point of it all story wise?? I think it was to show the raw power at this monster's disposal, and how powerful he will become with proper training. (Though I admit he may not be able to unleash that same level of power at will presently).

And then we have in the episode "brothers" Dooku being seriously worried about Savage's power level and how it's growing. So I think the story arc is obviously about how powerful this guy is and how powerful he is on his way to becoming.

You may be right. I've hope we will get a few wonderful duels in the next seasons.

No it's not. But "after proper training" seems as if if you are indicating raw power...
In my believes raw power is not a measure factor, when evaluating Sith.
Did Palpatine have more raw power, than Anakin? Don't think so. Yet, he managed to imbue his power with Sith Sorcery and draining life energy so much that he was capable to make swirling vortex of dimension-altering energy and Force storms destroying fleets.

How about Exar Kun raw power? Regular Force-sensitive but as Sith he became extraordinary powerful, drained life out of entire Massasi race and at the end became spirit capable to control minds of apprentices and attack Jedi with Force directly.

What was raw power of Darth Nihilus? Doesn't matter as his power was limited only to time he needed to reach new inhabited place to feed on it.

Was Vitiate's raw power more, than Anakin? I doubt so. But his Force natural talents allowed him to dominate others and feed on them at the same time to become stronger, then he consumed whole planet and then it doesn't matter what his raw power ones had been.

The Son and Daughter did not have more raw power, than Anakin. Yet, their capabilities were beyond Anakin's in every way as they were imbued by Force nexus through Father.

Yet, Jedi like Luke, Yoda, Windu and many more with only their own potential manage to fight those much more powerful Force abusers on equal terms. And that is the beauty of Star Wars that prevail not those who have the most power but those who selflessly fight for the right thing with calm in their heart. That is why for me it is easy to believe that Oppress is more powerful, than Yoda and Windu. And, yet he will be defeated. But I hope that he will not be just killed but will be freed from nightsister spell and become normal person again, the noble warrior with morals as he ones had been.

Originally posted by Arhael
In my believes raw power is not a measure factor, when evaluating Sith.

Ok... Then why did you bring what Savage could be "with proper training" up?


Originally posted by Arhael Yet, Jedi like Luke, Yoda, Windu and many more with only their own potential manage to fight those much more powerful Force abusers on equal terms. And that is the beauty of Star Wars that prevail not those who have the most power but those who selflessly fight for the right thing with calm in their heart. That is why for me it is easy to believe that Oppress is more powerful, than Yoda and Windu. And, yet he will be defeated. But I hope that he will not be just killed but will be freed from nightsister spell and become normal person again, the noble warrior with morals as he ones had been.

This is completley faulty logic. Sure, people can defeat those who have more power then them but that doesn't mean villians have to be more powerful than the Jedi... Reagrdless, Mace and Yoda have the far better feats indicating that they are more powerful than Savage.

Ok... Then why did you bring what Savage could be "with proper training" up? He is already imbued by nightsister magic. Proper training would teach him to use the power given to him.


I agree that ordinary Sith are not more powerful, than Jedi. For example, Dooku wasn't typical Sith, yet, he used only his own potential(raw power), so he wasn't more powerful as Sith, than as Jedi. However, Oppress is no general Sith, it is product of darkside sorcery.

Originally posted by Arhael
He is already imbued by nightsister magic. Proper training would teach him to use the power given to him.

Um yeah... You're still talking about raw power.

Originally posted by Arhael
I agree that ordinary Sith are not more powerful, than Jedi. For example, Dooku wasn't typical Sith, yet, he used only his own potential(raw power), so he wasn't more powerful as Sith, than as Jedi.

What?

And Dooku is more powerful as a Sith. "Powerful you have become Dooku. The dark side I sense in you."



He was possibly amped... So? That doesn't make him more powerful than Yoda, Mace, or even Dooku as these three have far more impressive feats.

Um yeah... You're still talking about raw power. Perhaps, we have different understandings about what is raw power. In my understanding raw power is the power that comes from within without any external sources like nightsister magic.

Agree.

And I am not trying to prove it or convince you otherwise. I simply expressed my opinion. And I specifically said "That is why for me it is easy to believe" to imply that I am not trying to argue with you, that I was merely expressing my thoughts and believes and by no means I am trying to prove that you are wrong in any way.

Originally posted by ares834
Um yeah... You're still talking about raw power.

That's the point. Savage has the Raw power, but lacks skill. As he gains more skill he's going to become a seriously dangerous threat, and it will take one of the Big Guns (Mace/Yoda/Sidious) to take him down Imo.







Originally posted by ares834
That doesn't make him more powerful than Yoda, Mace, or even Dooku as these three have far more impressive feats.

So why is Dooku so worried about him then? And Im curious Ares what these feats are of Mace and Dooku that are "far more impressive" than a Force wave which puts down 3 Destroyer Droids, a load of Battle droids plus 2 Jedi onto their rear.

When has a Force wave from Dooku sent both Anakin and Obi-Wan flying back simultaneously, putting them both on their rear with lightsabers even deignited for a second. Do you think Mace can do that to those 2 as well? In fact do you see Mace and Dooku not only doing that but doing a "far more impressive" force wave feat than that??

Also where would you place Savage at the moment in terms of power. Becuase judging from the last episode he's clearly well beyond Obi-Wan or Ventress. And as per Dooku's words he's clearly only going to get even more powerful.

Originally posted by Zett
You may be right. I've hope we will get a few wonderful duels in the next seasons.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
So why is Dooku so worried about him then?

Just a thought; Wasn't Sidious worried about Ventress' growing power (which lead to her abandonment by Dooku at the beginning of the Savage/Nightsisters story arc)? That doesn't mean that she's anywhere near as powerful as Sidious. IJS.

Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
Just a thought; Wasn't Sidious worried about Ventress' growing power (which lead to her abandonment by Dooku at the beginning of the Savage/Nightsisters story arc)? That doesn't mean that she's anywhere near as powerful as Sidious. IJS.

True but if you remember JT, Sidious says to Dooku "I would hate to think you were training your own sith apprentice to overthrow me"

In other words Sidious was worried at the possibility of Ventress growing even more powerful, and then Dooku and her together destroying Sidious.

And in fact that was exactly what Dooku was planning to do as he says to Savage later "Soon your power will rival that of the great sith lord Darth Maul and we will be even more powerful than Darth Sidious.."

Always happens like that. Vader had the same intention with his secret apprentices, and later with Luke, that together they will overthrow the Emporer.


Whilst now Dooku is worried about Savage who is on his own(as far as he knows). No team, no army, just him, out there somewhere becoming more powerful. He even says he's a threat to "all of us" including the Jedi.

This is a random question but when did the nightsisters become powerful enough to imbue someone with enough power to rival or surpass the likes of Anakin, obi wan, dooku etc... why dont they make a few more? Why havent they done it before or since? i like savage as a character i just feel they did a poor job explainijg his huge power jump. It would have been nice if the gave some sort of explaination like the sisters gave him their power now they're weakend, or used some amulet with the essence of a very powerful dead nightsister, or transferred mauls spirit to his body, or something. Not just have some witches who have been depicted as fairly weak in the past to chant for 30 seconds and create a superpowered, multi- top tier whoopin bad ass with enough raw power to frighten Dooku.

Originally posted by Raptor22
This is a random question but when did the nightsisters become powerful enough to imbue someone with enough power to rival or surpass the likes of Anakin, obi wan, dooku etc... why dont they make a few more? Why havent they done it before or since? i like savage as a character i just feel they did a poor job explainijg his huge power jump. It would have been nice if the gave some sort of explaination like the sisters gave him their power now they're weakend, or used some amulet with the essence of a very powerful dead nightsister, or transferred mauls spirit to his body, or something. Not just have some witches who have been depicted as fairly weak in the past to chant for 30 seconds and create a superpowered, multi- top tier whoopin bad ass with enough raw power to frighten Dooku.

I find myself wondering the same thing. Best explanation I can come up with is that they (the writers, producers, etc...) just don't give a flying **** about logic and continuity. It's all about viewership and as such, Savage Oppress is a vehicle by which to attract that viewership.

Originally posted by Raptor22
This is a random question but when did the nightsisters become powerful enough to imbue someone with enough power to rival or surpass the likes of Anakin, obi wan, dooku etc...

When Lucas decided they could..

But the force potential was his own. As far as I understand they didn't give him that. Ventress went to find the best from a force sensitive, warrior like clan.

Remeber before they imbued him with any magic, Mother Talzin said "This One is Powerful.." Also remeber before he even met Savage, Dooku was interested in getting an apprentice from Maul's bloodline.

What the Nightsisters magic did seem to do though was somehow increase the rate at which he could learn to use the force. Perhaps make all his raw power/potential more readily available to him. I agree we could have used an explanation instead of just having to guess though.

They also clearly made him much larger and physically stronger.

Also I doubt his potential and raw power is anywhere close to Anakin's.

Originally posted by Raptor22
why dont they make a few more? Why havent they done it before or since?

For what purpose? Make all the men bigger and stronger? They won't all get training from a Sith Lord like Savage did, and they won't all have nearly as much potential or raw power as Savage either.

Also the nightsisters are already formidable warriors and they prefer to keep the men under control. Also it probably would take way too much power to do it to all the men.

And who knows we might get an eu story about someone it was done to before.

Originally posted by Raptor22
i like savage as a character i just feel they did a poor job explainijg his huge power jump. It would have been nice if the gave some sort of explaination like the sisters gave him their power now they're weakend, or used some amulet with the essence of a very powerful dead nightsister, or transferred mauls spirit to his body, or something. Not just have some witches who have been depicted as fairly weak in the past to chant for 30 seconds and create a superpowered, multi- top tier whoopin bad ass with enough raw power to frighten Dooku.

Nightsisters have never been weak. In Darth Maul Black Sun, one temporarily downed Maul with Force Lightning. And of course Ventress is a nightsister. So Im not sure where you got that they are weak.

Plus Lucas and Filoni made it clear their magic is something completely different to the force powers they have. And it seems the magic mainly all comes from Mother Talzin anyway.

But I do agree a further explanation in the episodes of what they did exactly to Savage would have been nice. As well as a proper explanation as to where the heck Maul got his spider legs from!

At this point, I don't think we need an explanation on how Maul got his mecha-spider legs. I think we should just ignore that he even got them in the first place.

I've decided have to give the Saber fight to Maul. But will be difficult due to Savage's strength (physical and force enhanced).

Not sure about the all out. Probably still Savage. His Force TK feats are too impressive.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
That's the point. Savage has the Raw power, but lacks skill. As he gains more skill he's going to become a seriously dangerous threat, and it will take one of the Big Guns (Mace/Yoda/Sidious) to take him down Imo.

Mark my words, Ahsoka will kill him.



He is worried about what he will become. With that said Savage would proove a challenge for Dooku if he didn't spam lightning.

Mace has pushed an AT-TE off a cliff; then, of course, there is him matching Palps in a swordfight. He also uses a casual push to destroy a large group of droids...

Dooku, meanwhile, managed to defeat Sora Bulq with a short burst of lightning. Held his own against Yoda in a lightsaber duel several times, owned Ventress with a twitch of his finger, etc.



Ventress managed to choke both Anakin and Obi-Wan at the same time. I can easily see Mace or Dooku using the force to knock both down for awhile. Hell in RotS, Dooku chokes and knocks out Obi-Wan while simultaneously blasting back Anakin...

Originally posted by ares834
Mark my words, Ahsoka will kill him.

Haha! You're joking right? I hope you are. God I hope that doesn't happen!


Originally posted by ares834
He is worried about what he will become. With that said Savage would proove a challenge for Dooku if he didn't spam lightning.

Mace has pushed an AT-TE off a cliff; then, of course, there is him matching Palps in a swordfight. He also uses a casual push to destroy a large group of droids...

Dooku, meanwhile, managed to defeat Sora Bulq with a short burst of lightning. Held his own against Yoda in a lightsaber duel several times, owned Ventress with a twitch of his finger, etc.



Ventress managed to choke both Anakin and Obi-Wan at the same time. I can easily see Mace or Dooku using the force to knock both down for awhile. Hell in RotS, Dooku chokes and knocks out Obi-Wan while simultaneously blasting back Anakin...

Yeah Ive changed my mind. I think his raw power seems to be on par with what we've seen from Mace. The feats you've given of Mace are comparable, but not superior imo.

But of course "as of now" Mace and Dooku are still far more "skilled".

thats darth mauls brother you guys

^ Yes we do know that.

I see Savage as the powerhouse(physical and in the force) and Maul as one of the most skilled warriors of the mythos.

This could play out similar to the Bane vs Kas'im fight.