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Juri Han takes on NORMAL Gouki as of SFIII

http://images.wikia.com/capcomdatabase/images/d/d9/AkumaAltCostume.pngXhttp://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100905002843/capcomdatabase/images/3/37/Juri.png

This is nonsense

Street Fighting is a man sport, she better know her place

Said it before and I'll say it again. Juri will be beaten to death by Akuma in, about, 30 seconds.

Akuma would kill Juri.

hey Juri is cool and all, but against Akuma? Everyone else has already said what I was gonna say: Akuma beats her. hard.

1. Juri KILLS SSFIV Seth (#15).

M3i8vT0mn8I

Heck, PRE SFIV, Seth gave Ryu trouble. Juri casually stomps, literally-stomps, a Seth that has already assimilated everyone's attacks and is just, out-right, stronger.

2.XsXgyDgy_YE

It is CONSTANTLY implied that she can go one on one with SFIV Vega. Even in the most recent crossover. This is Vega at 75%. One more 1/4 and she would be fighting a Vega who can use Psychokinetic blasts to turn cities into burning mushroom clouds. For her to be remotely close to 3/4 Vega puts her in normal Gouki's league, alone.

3. Are we now going to say that Gouki will EASILY thrash SFIV Vega? He used the SGS on Vega when he was at just 1/4 of his power. Obviously normal Gouki would have a fight on his hands if he engaged in combat with 3/4 Vega. So he would obviously have a fight on his hands if he engaged in combat with Juri, who so far, has never used the Feng Shui Engine to its maximum.

Originally posted by Frisky Dingo
Are we now going to say that Gouki will EASILY thrash SFIV Vega? Yes.

Well I'm here to inform you that he is not capable. He MAY defeat SFIV Vega, but it will not be easy for him.

Originally posted by Frisky Dingo
Well I'm here to inform you that he is not capable. He MAY defeat SFIV Vega, but it will not be easy for him.

That remains to be seen.

In every media I've seen, Akuma ranks above Bison reguardless of forms.

Okay, Juri is strong. Akuma still wins, he just wont instantly muder her. . .baring no SGS, o'course.

And even though I think A<B<C logic (power scallin) is okay for in-universe battles, the only edge I woulda gave Juri in speed, is gone.

Yup, so what she dodged a phuckin teleport punch, usin power scalin, Akuma has leik mach 100 reaction speed.

@DSZ
Are you implying that NORMAL Gouki can defeat 3 SFII Vegas, which implies that he can take on 3 sets of SFII Kens, Ryus, Chun Lis, Cammys, and Guiles all at once?

@No End
Are you scaling Gouki's power from Juri? In he isn't that much more powerful than Juri, if at all. Which is the point of my thread.

Originally posted by No End N Site
Yup, so what she dodged a phuckin teleport punch, usin power scalin, Akuma has leik mach 100 reaction speed. This is not how powerscaling works.

What? That's exactly how it works. That's why I always thought it was silly.Originally posted by Frisky Dingo

Are you scaling Gouki's power from Juri? In he isn't that much more powerful than Juri, if at all. Which is the point of my thread.

Are you serious? You clearly said Gouki as of SFIII. Are you gonna tell me that Akuma in SFIII can't beat IV Bison with ease? Nonsense.

Just to demonstrate how dumb this is, in SFIV, Ryu went from barely beatin Seth to SFIII where he is around Reg Akuma's level. The jumps in power between IV and III are massive.

Originally posted by No End N Site
What? That's exactly how it works. That's why I always thought it was silly.

No, generally a character will be assumed to be at least roughly on par with a weaker character in an attribute if the feats are not greater, if not better to an unspecified extent.

It doesn't go like "Well x can dodge a bullet and y is much stronger than x, so y must be mach 100!"

Y might be assumed to be able to also dodge a bullet, but an arbitrary number will not be given to his speed.

ABC logic still be ABC logic. O.K O.G dont end up in the I.C.U

You don't know what A>B>C logic is actually, and this is not it.

Originally posted by NemeBro
No, generally a character will be assumed to be at least roughly on par with a weaker character in an attribute if the feats are not greater, if not better to an unspecified extent.

It doesn't go like "Well x can dodge a bullet and y is much stronger than x, so y must be mach 100!"

Y might be assumed to be able to also dodge a bullet, but an arbitrary number will not be given to his speed.

I know that. That's why Akuma is leik mach 100 lol. Juri's feat requires she moves at leik 80,000 mph. Usin power scalin, despite not havin the feat, he should be, at least, as fast as her.

As far as feats are concerned even Alpha 2 Akuma could slaughter everyone in SF that isn't Ingrid.

Edit: Oh yeah, forgot Gouken can keep up with him. But that's it.

Akuma tosses a submarine at her.

Originally posted by stargun
As far as feats are concerned even Alpha 2 Akuma could slaughter everyone in SF that isn't Ingrid.


But in actuality, current Akuma's gonna have quite a few tough battles and even with Shin thrown into the mix, there are still a few toss ups.

Hell, even Ryu will wreck an A2 Akuma. In theory, Akuma would have a tough fight with Twelve, in theory. And there is much to be implied when, besides oro and Ryu, Q is akuma's only rival in SFIII.

Originally posted by No End N Site
Juri's feat requires she moves at leik 80,000 mph. ... Because she dodged a teleport punch?

...Yes. Bison Warp is instant.

And?

Originally posted by Frisky Dingo
@DSZ
Are you implying that NORMAL Gouki can defeat 3 SFII Vegas, which implies that he can take on 3 sets of SFII Kens, Ryus, Chun Lis, Cammys, and Guiles all at once?

Considering it's non-Shin or Oni current Gouki, yes, yes I am saying that.

And considering he killed SF2 Vega instantaneously, how is that a stretch?

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Considering it's non-Shin or Oni current Gouki, yes, yes I am saying that.

And considering he killed SF2 Vega instantaneously, how is that a stretch? Exactly, he's makin it sound like it was very hard for Akuma to do away with any Bison that isn't Shin.

Originally posted by NemeBro
And?

...she dodged an attack that took, literally, no amount of perceivable time to reach her.
If you're still lost after that, then I don't know how else to explain it to you.

well here's Juri's cross art

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FD0-7PhMS4

^
WTH!? Never seen that before!

Hell, you can percieve a ligthning strike, you can't even see Juri until she stops.

And here's the event in question.
http://gifsoup.com/view3/3538879/juri-o.gif

She actually is pretty fast in that video


BUT NOT FAST ENOUGH FOR THE GOD OF FISTS

There is exactly nothing in that gif that would require Juri to be 80,000 miles per hour or even the speed of sound.

Also, you can "see" a lightning strike because of how incredibly bright it is.

No human moving at 60,000 meters per second could be perceived by the human eye.

To disappear from sight, it has been calculated that you would need to be about 200 miles per hour, if the thing in question was human sized.

So... Yeah no, the implication that Juri is faster than a lightning bolt is laughable.

Originally posted by NemeBro
There is exactly nothing in that gif that would require Juri to be 80,000 miles per hour or even the speed of sound.

Also, you can "see" a lightning strike because of how incredibly bright it is.

No human moving at 60,000 meters per second could be perceived by the human eye.

To disappear from sight, it has been calculated that you would need to be about 200 miles per hour, if the thing in question was human sized.

So... Yeah no, the implication that Juri is faster than a lightning bolt is laughable.

Yeah, I know, it's faster. I was just bein conservative. If his Warp requires a person be in 2 places at once to even touch'im, this is clearly an implication of the speed of his teleport. I was just be being nice, but that's really the cold hard truth.

Lol How did I know you would say that? But I don't blame you. Doesn't matter how bright somethin is, if it's too fast to be seen...you can't see it. If your claim was the case, you could see a group of solar photons from the suns core in a pitch black room, which you can't becuase they move too fast, despite just one of them being millions of times brighter than a lightning strike. And yeah, people don't tell you kids that lightning is hotter and brighter than the surface of the sun. The brain can comprehend the first and last frames of a lighning strike.

And OmfG Lmbao! That is the biggest crock of $h!t I ever heard and every Joe Blow uses it. In truth, you would not disappear goin 200mph. The object will appear very blurry, that's it. And to disappear you would have to leave the person's field of view and cross back into it every couple seconds just remain invisible, but still claim to be in the person's line of sight. Which is cheatin. The object would appear invisible cuz, at times, it would actually be out of sight.

So let me clear up this misconseption people seem to have. When somethin moves too fast for your eyes to keep up with, it's cuz it's movin in and out of yur field of veiw. Meanin you have to move dem eyeballs to follow. When a person sized object is 'dead' in your face and all you have to do is look straight ahead and still can't see it (Juri), that means...well...tried to explain but it cuz it actually means alot. Just know that "mach" does not begin to describe it.

Research is fundamental, son.

Originally posted by No End N Site
Yeah, I know, it's faster. I was just bein conservative. If his Warp requires a person be in 2 places at once to even touch'im, this is clearly an implication of the speed of his teleport. I was just be being nice, but that's really the cold hard truth.

A bunch of unsupported bullshit.

Also, teleportation doesn't utilise "speed", because it eliminates time from the equation, at least assuming the teleportation process (The time from when you move between one space and another) is instantaneous.

Oh, and teleportation is not a substitute for raw speed or reaction-time.

... And... Where are you getting this Bison teleport-punched her shit from? Looks like the Psycho Crusher to me.



You are aware that a lightning strike is many kilometers long and that most lightning strikes are made up of multiple individual strokes, right? Said strokes often-times being split by a relatively signifigant margin to make the illusion of one bolt right? And that said re-strikes cause a strobe light effect, right? Really, the only visible part of lightning is the return stroke, streak lightning.

Lightning is visible as a flash of light because of both incandescence (due to its high temperature it glows blue-white) and luminescence (excitation of nitrogen gas in the atmosphere). Nitrogen, the dominant gas in the atmosphere, is excited by this strong flow of energy, its electrons moving to higher energy states. The distinctive blue-white color of lightning is caused by light emitted as the electrons drop back to their original energy states.

This does not mean a human being could easily perceive a human sized body moving at 60,000+ meters per second. There are reasons that lightning is visible. None have to do with it being too slow.

I know that lightning is hotter than the surface of the sun. What is your point?



Right, like what Juri was doing.



Okay first of all: We can see Juri. We can see the purple blur as she moves (Probably emanating from her Feng Sui or however it is spelled Engine). By your own words, if she was so fast as to disappear from sight it wouldn't matter how bright it is (And it isn't very bright). Beyond that, said purple blur continuously leaves the edges of the screen as she attacks.

No but seriously: Prove Juri would have to be faster than lightning to disappear from sight, until then nothing you say matters.



You know much less than what you think you know.

you're not seen Juri at all, the only thing you're seeing is just a stream of pink color light from Juri's eye. it's similar to what you see when I jet pass by. oh by the way brightness has nothing to do with speed, the reason why you can see the stream coming from Juri's eye is because it's bright, it might not be really bright, but it's bright enough to where you can see it.

That's what I just said.

I think it's really foolish to try and dispute her speed with the facts presented.

You can't see Juri at all, all you see is the light streak from her eye. And to make things worse for anyone trying to dispute it. You see a lasting streak in multiple places at one time, she only has ONE glowing eye. Lightning itself is not fast enough to do that. It's a flash and it's gone. This also leads back to the teleport evasion. She is so fast, her movement is seen as a slower teleport. Which is well above "mach", since teleporting removes time from the equation.

I find the logic here, especially disturbing when you consider that this particular forum's "Lightning Timers" are all SEEN blocking or evading lightning, which would be impossible without proper tech.Originally posted by No End N Site
When a person sized object is 'dead' in your face and all you have to do is look straight ahead and still can't see it (Juri), that means...well...tried to explain but it cuz it actually means alot. Just know that "mach" does not begin to describe it.


I know what it means and it can mean a number of things.

1. The target is not moving fast enough and the perceive can't see very well. They would appear invisible.

2. As you stated, the target is dipping in an out of the 20 20 vision field of the viewer

3. Or something about the target moving to fast for light to bounce off of it, whiiiiiiiiiiiiich has "other" ramifications.

So basically you don't have any real argument?

Delightful.

the only way to know if Juri is high end mach speeds is if she can dodge a Sonic Boom, which is stated to be faster then the speed of sound.

That wouldn't make her "high end mach speeds".

There is a number given for Guile's Sonic Boom IIRC.

Mach 2.

I can't believe people are being so painfully stupid as using some bullshit like Juri disappearing from sight and making a "lasting streak" (See: After image) as proof for mach 200+ speeds, this shit is ****ing retarded and you should all be ashamed for claiming it.

Is SFxT even canon?

No, it isn't.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Considering it's non-Shin or Oni current Gouki, yes, yes I am saying that.

And considering he killed SF2 Vega instantaneously, how is that a stretch?
Originally posted by No End N Site
Exactly, he's makin it sound like it was very hard for Akuma to do away with any Bison that isn't Shin.

And how sure are we that Gouki and Vega did not do battle before he was SGSed? And being killed quickly sounds bad, but when you say the character is eliminated with an SGS, then you say, "Oh of course!".



Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Is SFxT even canon? She actually has the move in SFIV, her Cross Assault just has her do it multiple instances in a row. She's capable doing her own moves.

Originally posted by NemeBro
So basically you don't have any real argument?

Delightful.
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I can't believe people are being so painfully stupid as using some bullshit like Juri disappearing from sight and making a "lasting streak" (See: After image) as proof for mach 200+ speeds, this shit is ****ing retarded and you should all be ashamed for claiming it.


As usual, you are wrong and are unable to accept it. Or at least put on the front.

And you have to be off your damn rocker if you think Juri going COMPLETELY invisible and the leaving a web of light streaks is anywhere near as idiotic as posting videos of characters DODGING and DEFLECTING FAKE lightning. Let's be serious here.

Originally posted by Frisky Dingo
And how sure are we that Gouki and Vega did not do battle before he was SGSed? And being killed quickly sounds bad, but when you say the character is eliminated with an SGS, then you say, "Oh of course!".

There never has been any specifics on what actually happened. So we wont assume anything other than what was shown. Akuma pops up and SGSs the shit outta Bison. Can he do it to 3 Bisons? Sure, why not. It looks damn-easy enough.

We get the point, Juri is stronger than given credit for. But Akuma will still embarrass her, easily. There is no contest here. And of all Akuma's, you use SFIII? It's the match for the ages if you hate Juri.



Originally posted by NemeBro
A bunch of unsupported bullshit.

Also, teleportation doesn't utilise "speed", because it eliminates time from the equation, at least assuming the teleportation process (The time from when you move between one space and another) is instantaneous.
Oh, and teleportation is not a substitute for raw speed or reaction-time.

... And... Where are you getting this Bison teleport-punched her shit from? Looks like the Psycho Crusher to me.



You are aware that a lightning strike is many kilometers long and that most lightning strikes are made up of multiple individual strokes, right? Said strokes often-times being split by a relatively signifigant margin to make the illusion of one bolt right? And that said re-strikes cause a strobe light effect, right? Really, the only visible part of lightning is the return stroke, streak lightning.
Lightning is visible as a flash of light because of both incandescence (due to its high temperature it glows blue-white) and luminescence (excitation of nitrogen gas in the atmosphere). Nitrogen, the dominant gas in the atmosphere, is excited by this strong flow of energy, its electrons moving to higher energy states. The distinctive blue-white color of lightning is caused by light emitted as the electrons drop back to their original energy states. This does not mean a human being could easily perceive a human sized body moving at 60,000+ meters per second. There are reasons that lightning is visible. None have to do with it being too slow.

I know that lightning is hotter than the surface of the sun. What is your point?



Right, like what Juri was doing.



Okay first of all: We can see Juri. We can see the purple blur as she moves (Probably emanating from her Feng Sui or however it is spelled Engine). By your own words, if she was so fast as to disappear from sight it wouldn't matter how bright it is (And it isn't very bright). Beyond that, said purple blur continuously leaves the edges of the screen as she attacks.

No but seriously: Prove Juri would have to be faster than lightning to disappear from sight, until then nothing you say matters.



You know much less than what you think you know.

Right. Always the case with $h!t you don't like, but hatahz gonna hate.

Are you takin time to actually read your own posts? Time dictates speed. If you remove time from a punch, the punch becomes nigh-instant, barin the instant needed to disappear and reappear in another place, which is miniscule. It's like dodgin a teleport lunge from Night Crawler.

I don't think you know what a Psycho Crusher looks like, pal.

Okay, I hope you feel really good about yurself now, cuz all those Google facts you slapped up their completely avoid the point being made. Which was, at high enough speeds, flashes of light will not even register to the human eye. The brightest thing in the universe, the beginning of a Quasar, can't be seen until after it has already occurred. The eyes will never be fast enough to witness a flash brighter than a billion galaxies. Which leads back to my point. Lightning is slow enough to see, its brightness helps, but it is not an applicable excuse. There a brighter things than lightning that occur too fast to even register.

I didn't think you did. Just tryin to put that out there before you try and argue me down about that, too.

Juri ran circles around Chun, you can see the streaks curve around her body. Juri may be runnin around Chun, but she never leaves the viewers line of sight. Which is my point.

Pure denial or not payin close attention is all that is that paragraph is sayin to me.

What? I've, in fact we, have been doin that this whole time. This never changes with you. But hatahz will continue to do, what is they do.

The extent of your own ignorance leads you to that conclusion. . .

@DSZ and No End

What, I'm not undestanding is, if we can all agree that Shin Vega VS Shin Gouki is virtually a toss up, why would their weaker levels not match up? If Shin Gouki and Vega are even, for the most part, why would removing just 1/4 of Shin Vega's power make Vega an EASY kill for NORMAL Gouki? Especially when it's already established that Gouki would need his Shin form to battle Shin Vega.

If Juri can keep up with 75% Vega, how is she an EASY kill for Gouki? I don't get it.

huh who said anything about mach 200, or was thinking more along the lines of mach 3 to mach 10. and I was thinking of along the lines of her depending how fast she can dodge a sonic boom, and how fast she could dodge a point blank shot.

Err, don't know how this affects debate, but eyes have something called dynamic range,wherein sensitivity is adjusted dependent on level of photons in the environment, becoming unresponsive to 100s or 1000s of photons in very bright environments, and reacting to less than a few dozen low energy photons in extreme pitch black environment after time for dynamic range adaptation.-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_dynamic_range_rendering#Human_eye

I've heard as little as a few 10s of relatively low energy photons or maybe less may be detectable at highest sensitivity state.

Originally posted by unrealman
huh who said anything about mach 200

I did, since she was capable of reactin to Bison's sneak attack, which involved him teleportin, just his arm, to kill Juri. Bison then steps out of a worm whole.

Bison's teleport can be so broken that he can, in fact, teleport back into his own after image, before it leaves. All of this can be seen, even in game, like so. . .

dfYxt07__AY

He blinks back into his own after image so quickly that you don't even see the blink, however, when Gouken swings at'im, he appears intangible, clearly showin that for an undetectable instant, even in the game, Bison was actually not there. And then you see Bison come out of the purple image to continue the battle. This can be seen somewhere in between 0:11-0:12 of the vid. This ridiculous feat can be seen again, in another instance @ 0:53-0:53.

We know how Bison fights, he will spam teleports, so for a character to keep with'im, without actually havin a teleport of their own, is well above a mach 10, or even a mach 100. It's rather close to instantaneous, which means no time.

Originally posted by En Sabah Nur X
I've heard as little as a few 10s of relatively low energy photons or maybe less may be detectable at highest sensitivity state.

Your brain will 'react' to the presence of a single photon through prisms (slowin down, splittin, and "clonin" the minute photons). But the reaction/detection doesn't equate to sight. The brain will "subconsciously detect" a or a some photon(s). That's what I've learned.

Originally posted by Frisky Dingo
@DSZ and No End

What, I'm not undestanding is, if we can all agree that Shin Vega VS Shin Gouki is virtually a toss up, why would their weaker levels not match up? If Shin Gouki and Vega are even, for the most part, why would removing just 1/4 of Shin Vega's power make Vega an EASY kill for NORMAL Gouki? Especially when it's already established that Gouki would need his Shin form to battle Shin Vega.

If Juri can keep up with 75% Vega, how is she an EASY kill for Gouki? I don't get it.

What?! I know I never agreed to that shit! I said Akuma would have to go beyond his normal lvls to deal with Bison's more "eXtra" powers. That doesn't mean he has to go all out, he just has to use a lil more power than his normal form would allow. He has the showings necessary, in his normal state, to put the hurt on Bison, alone. Defeatin'im and dealin with all his psychic malarkey will just require a bit more power than he normal uses.

What is instant or instantaneous? What we perceive as instant can in truth(and virtually always is, as a matter of fact) be very far from instant. In case of SF4, "instant" means more or less 0.0166666666666667 seconds.

Hmmmm. . .curious to know why you chose that number? Just to make sure. Cuz to be honest, I was way too lazy to actually try an measure an instant/Psycho warp in SFIV.

Originally posted by No End N Site
Hmmmm. . .curious to know why you chose that number? Just to make sure. Cuz to be honest, I was way too lazy to actually try an measure an instant/Psycho warp in SFIV.

Now I'm not 100% sure if I'm right, but the game runs at 60 frames per second. Therefor 1/60 = 0.0166666666666667 is the time needed for any measurable change to occur in the game.

here's Bison using his teleport to escape Heihachi headbutt

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azjxWNRs4sA#t=0m30s

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Now I'm not 100% sure if I'm right, but the game runs at 60 frames per second. Therefor 1/60 = 0.0166666666666667 is the time needed for any measurable change to occur in the game. Frame consideration is actually a rather excellent idea. However, it still raises a problem, since there is less than 1 active frame in Vega's teleport.

http://www.eventhubs.com/guides/2008/nov/13/m-bison-dictator-frame-data-street-fighter-4/

As shown here, there a NO start up frames OR active frames of animation for his teleport. It just happens, or happens in less than a single frame. There are 42 recovery frames, but that's just stopping it from being broken.

Originally posted by No End N Site
What?! I know I never agreed to that shit! I said Akuma would have to go beyond his normal lvls to deal with Bison's more "eXtra" powers. That doesn't mean he has to go all out, he just has to use a lil more power than his normal form would allow. He has the showings necessary, in his normal state, to put the hurt on Bison, alone. Defeatin'im and dealin with all his psychic malarkey will just require a bit more power than he normal uses.

Vega can fire psychokinetic blasts that reduce cities to burning mushroom clouds. If that's just his basic psychic blasts, when applied to TK and hypnosis he should be able to wreck whole cities, like throwing sky scrappers and toppling buildings. Add in teleport spam and mach speed flight and that's FAR MORE than Gouki has ever dealt with.

The man's presence causes wild thunder storms and his psychic powers form GIANT clouds that fill the sky in the shape of a skull. His powers are very radical, and there is NO proof that just a "little Shin", is enough to deal with it.

Originally posted by Frisky Dingo
Frame consideration is actually a rather excellent idea. However, it still raises a problem, since there is less than 1 active frame in Vega's teleport.

http://www.eventhubs.com/guides/2008/nov/13/m-bison-dictator-frame-data-street-fighter-4/

As shown here, there a NO start up frames OR active frames of animation for his teleport. It just happens, or happens in less than a single frame. There are 42 recovery frames, but that's just stopping it from being broken.

That probably just means that the teleport action is contained within a single frame. If you took half a frame, Bison's upper body would be gone while his legs would still be there. At any rate, this is just really gameplay mechanics where a sonic boom travels at a pace of a brisk walk.

here's Bison teleporting him self and Juri in Street fighter X Tekken

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-bJimnB1dk

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
That probably just means that the teleport action is contained within a single frame. If you took half a frame, Bison's upper body would be gone while his legs would still be there. At any rate, this is just really gameplay mechanics where a sonic boom travels at a pace of a brisk walk.

If it was contained in a single frame, it would count as 1 frame. There is no frame.

And guile's sonic boom is a tool used for zoning, having it go the speed of a sonic boom would make it broken. Guile's also a good guy, he does not throw SBs with the intent to kill, especially since the attack is described as a cutting attack, at full power.

Vega's attack is a teleport, in game, and behaves as such. Even in game. I think the "gameplay" argument holds little weight here.

X

Dodging a teleport is normally more about anticipation then anything. They have to come out of the teleport to attack, and it boils down to dodging when they can attack. The vid you sent pretty much showed that, he vanished and she jumped right as he was coming out. So her really would still only be as much as it took to dodge the actual punch, not the teleport.


Also the whole turning invisible thing, doesn't prove she's faster then lightning, since there are things slower that we can't see as well. Along with the fact that it may just be artistic license in how the move looks. Same as how we can see characters going lightspeed in games and shows, yet have guys like spidey man being invisble at other times.. Without context of who exactly she's invisible too it doesn't mean much.


Now Juri may be as fast as you're saying, but I'm just saying that there should be better evidence. Especially since the ultra special is being done in gameplay.

How can juri anticipate vega, teleporting to her location with a flaming extended arm in hong kong, from Thailand?

And What are these slower things, that are human sized, we can't see? While they move, only in our field of sight? I'm in serious doubt about her depiction of speed being "artistic liscense" when you consider she is capable of going 1 on 1 with a version of vega, 3x more powerful than a lesser form that teleported so much, it took 5 fighters to actually catch him off guard.

Juri's vanishing act is a clear depiction of her speed, since she is actually that fast.

Originally posted by Frisky Dingo
How can juri anticipate vega, teleporting to her location, in hong kong, from Thailand?

And What are these slower things, that are human sized, we can't see? While they move, only in our field of sight? I'n in serious doubt about her depiction of speed being "artistic liscense" when you consider she capable of going 1 on 1 with a version of vega, 3x more powerful than a lesser form that teleported do much, it took 5 fighters to actually catch him off guard.

Juri's vanishing act is a clear depiction of her speed, since she is actually that fast.

I wasn't talking about human sized, I was commenting on you saying it makes her faster then lightning since we can see it. Lightning is much larger then a human, just as there are smaller things then juri that we can't see when going slower. Follow me?


She had her eyes closed, it honestly seems like one of those mystical martial arts things. Like when they sense someone trying to kill them, plus her eye thing. May be wrong though, didn't play that, just saying dodging teleport doesn't automatically mean mach 8000 or anything

Well what's the other evidence of her speed, because an ultra special isn't a good argument since it's gameplay. I mean look at how slow they have the projectiles move.

Originally posted by jalek moye
I wasn't talking about human sized, I was commenting on you saying it makes her faster then lightning since we can see it. Lightning is much larger then a human, just as there are smaller things then juri that we can't see when going slower. Follow me?


She had her eyes closed, it honestly seems like one of those mystical martial arts things. Like when they sense someone trying to kill them, plus her eye thing. May be wrong though, didn't play that, just saying dodging teleport doesn't automatically mean mach 8000 or anything

Well what's the other evidence of her speed, because an ultra special isn't a good argument since it's gameplay. I mean look at how slow they have the projectiles move.

I NEVER said because you can see lightning, anything moving so fast you can't see, is faster than Lightning. However, given the mechanics of this particular situation, Juri is faster than lightning, since she never goes off the screen and we still can't see her. If it is in your face, is the size of a human, and never leaves from in front of you eyes, and you still can't see it. It is faster than lightning and is actually a high-end physics issue.

But that wasn't the case since Vega was coming from Shadaloo base with the attack. And Juri has not shown the ability to sense others power from far way. This just means she sensed him the moment he got there, which was a very short amount of time. Dodging a Psycho Warp, even with figures posted above, would make Juri well above Mach 8000.

Your excuse makes it sound as though everything is slower in gameplay. This means Juri is even faster outside of it. The gameplay argument is also very poor since she has demonstrated she can cause this affect outside of gameplay. Fighting games can accurately portray character's powers.......most of the time, actually.

Originally posted by Frisky Dingo
If it was contained in a single frame, it would count as 1 frame. There is no frame.

And guile's sonic boom is a tool used for zoning, having it go the speed of a sonic boom would make it broken. Guile's also a good guy, he does not throw SBs with the intent to kill, especially since the attack is described as a cutting attack, at full power.

Vega's attack is a teleport, in game, and behaves as such. Even in game. I think the "gameplay" argument holds little weight here.

Of course there is a frame. There cannot not be a frame.

Isn't "zoning" a purely gameplay concept? Shouldn't a sonic boom move at the very least at the speed of sound? I think it's quite simple: all these greatly superhuman characters are controlled by mere human beings with limited reaction times. I mean, come on, next thing you'll tell me that they actually fight in a 2D plane.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Of course there is a frame. There cannot not be a frame.

Isn't "zoning" a purely gameplay concept? Shouldn't a sonic boom move at the very least at the speed of sound? I think it's quite simple: all these greatly superhuman characters are controlled by mere human beings with limited reaction times. I mean, come on, next thing you'll tell me that they actually fight in a 2D plane.

But there can be, very close, to a "no frame" teleport. The one frame needed is for him to reappear. It doesn't require a frame to disappear, especially since it can be used as a cancel. However, this 1 frame has him reappear as an after image and is actually part of the 42 frame recovery, which can be Karaed out of after the 1st frame, anyway. Thus, even for the 1 frame it takes for him to come back on the screen, it is intangible.

Also, you must've missed the part where he says Guile holds back? Guile does hold back. In the game manual, his SBs are stated to be able to "slice through any thing". Of course Guile isn't throwin SBs to cut Ryu and Blanka in half. Just like Akuma holds back and aint destroyin islands with every punch in the game.

I get the point you're trying to make, but not every thing in gameplay is inadmissible. Many things actually coincide with the character's personalities and actual story. Usin yur logic, Guile isn't capable of doin a Sonic Hurricane cuz he's only been shown to do the move, in gameplay.Originally posted by Frisky Dingo
It is faster than lightning and is actually a high-end physics issue.


This whole discussion will be laid to rest soon, anyway. I just went to Ask A Physicist. I got an answer, originally, but it wasn't a very helpful one. So I had to ask a follow up and I'm waitin on that now. Here's what went down. . .

Originally Asked by Me
Hello and thank you for your time. This is probably a very
difficult question, but here we go.

If an average person is standing 10ft in front of me and is running back and
forth in my field of sight, the distance the person runs back and forth in
front of me is so short, that I would not have to even turn my head or move
my eyes to keep track of them. If they were to run back and forth, in that
short distance, so fast that they literally become invisible, how many MPH
would they be moving?

Also of note, the person is wearing a necklace with a light on it. I can not
see their body, but I can see the light, however, they are moving so fast,
that the light trails appear in dozens of places at 1 time..


Originally answered by The Physicist
They would never be "invisible", it is impossible. To give you a better look at this scenario, a humanbeing would cleanly view a jet at Mach 10, if the aircraft is coming towrad them. Remaining within their 20/20 in of course.

Originally posted by No End N Site
But there can be, very close, to a "no frame" teleport. The one frame needed is for him to reappear. It doesn't require a frame to disappear, especially since it can be used as a cancel. However, this 1 frame has him reappear as an after image and is actually part of the 42 frame recovery, which can be Karaed out of after the 1st frame, anyway. Thus, even for the 1 frame it takes for him to come back on the screen, it is intangible.

Also, you must've missed the part where he says Guile holds back? Guile does hold back. In the game manual, his SBs are stated to be able to "slice through any thing". Of course Guile isn't throwin SBs to cut Ryu and Blanka in half. Just like Akuma holds back and aint destroyin islands with every punch in the game.

I get the point you're trying to make, but not every thing in gameplay is inadmissible. Many things actually coincide with the character's personalities and actual story. Usin yur logic, Guile isn't capable of doin a Sonic Hurricane cuz he's only been shown to do the move, in gameplay.

This whole discussion will be laid to rest soon, anyway. I just went to Ask A Physicist. I got an answer, originally, but it wasn't a very helpful one. So I had to ask a follow up and I'm waitin on that now. Here's what went down. . .

Yep, it's very likely that Bison disappears and reappears in a single frame. That's still a single frame and no less.

I know not everything in gameplay is inadmissible, but gameplay mechanics tend to be inadmissible(though not always). I can understand Guile holding back against characters like Ryu or Blanka, or other good guys, but why hold back against the likes of Bison, Juri, Balrog, or Akuma? Or why does Bison strike a stupid pose for almost a second after he's done teleporting? Doesn't make sense and leaves him vulnerable. Or why can someone like Dan actually fight Bison on more or less even grounds? I'd imagine a single light punch from Bison or Oni would decapitate Dan and there wouldn't even be a need for a second round.

It's not like that. However, does Guile outside of gameplay needs to fill up some arbitrary meter before he can do a Sonic Hurricane?

mostly likey no, he just needs to channling and charge up his Ki before pulling off one.

Based on speculation, it is safe to say that SFIII Gouki would win against Juri.

However, there is no information of Juri during the events of SFIII.
She could have been stronger or weaker than her SFIV incarnation, or probably even dead already.

All we know is that she managed to survive/defeat the 2nd strongest version of Vega RIGHT AFTER destroying Seth #15.


PS:
Never really got into all this Gouki power-level hype.
Yes, he can level a city, destroy a sub, or bust a meteor. But none of that are indicative of his strength against the other top-tier monsters in SF.

The 2 times he used SGS on Gill and Vega was when they weren't ready to fight. He caught them both off-guard.
Besides, Gill was not really interested in battles in the grand scheme of things (since he's basically immortal and can resurrect through sheer power of will), and Vega was just a shadow of himself in SFII.