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Thor has no hammer.

Fight is to the death.

Speedblitz.

Team

Originally posted by Tony Stark
Team
Dies.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Dies.

Of laughter and drunkeness at the after party of how easily and hard they ****ed supeman.

Originally posted by Tony Stark
Of laughter and drunkeness at the after party of how easily and hard they ****ed supeman.
Lulz. Keep dreaming.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Lulz. Keep dreaming.

THOR doesn't need his hammer to beat Superman silly... Ben and Piotr are overkill

team

Originally posted by Tony Stark
THOR doesn't need his hammer to beat Superman silly... Ben and Piotr are overkill
Thor can't beat superman for a majority with his hammer, let alone without it. Kal oneshots those two clowns and beats thor to a pulp afterwards or just vibrates his hand and pulls their heart out.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Thor can't beat superman for a majority with his hammer, let alone without it. Kal oneshots those two clowns and beats thor to a pulp afterwards or just vibrates his hand and pulls their heart out.




Someone didn't take their medication this morning... For the saftey of all things KMC please take care of that.

Originally posted by Tony Stark


Someone didn't take their medication this morning... For the saftey of all things KMC please take care of that. Originally posted by abhilegend
Lulz. Keep dreaming.

Originally posted by Tony Stark
THOR doesn't need his hammer to beat Superman silly... Ben and Piotr are overkill

Wow. I really hope you're being sarcastic.

Anyways, Superman takes this.

Originally posted by Odekahn
Wow. I really hope you're being sarcastic.

Anyways, Superman takes this.
He isn't. He is one of those guys who always vote for marvel guys, no matter what.

Originally posted by abhilegend
He isn't. He is one of those guys who always vote for marvel guys, no matter what.


Most definitely not...

Originally posted by abhilegend
He isn't. He is one of those guys who always vote for marvel guys, no matter what.

Honestly, I kind of figured that if for nothing else than this fight is unbelievably one sided.

And saying Thor doesn't need mjolnir to beat Superman is laughter evoking fanboyism.

Team dies a horrible death.

This is going to be much of a fight. Not sure what Thing and Colossus are bringing to the table here, besides momentary distractions.

Originally posted by Tony Stark
Most definitely not...
Most definitely yes. That was easy.

kind reminder supes isn't goin to speedblitz everyone yet alone one who has juggernaut's power

b real friends

said before, i know kmc rules, but all citing supes speedblitzes for wins isn't a fair and just way for a win and to me borderline sillyness it is what it is

for me and i'm 45 years young, the team wins

carry on

Originally posted by guy222
kind reminder supes isn't goin to speedblitz everyone yet alone one who has juggernaut's power

b real friends

said before, i know kmc rules, but all citing supes speedblitzes for wins isn't a fair and just way for a win and to me borderline sillyness it is what it is

for me and i'm 45 years young, the team wins

carry on
Its to death and I doubt that OP had colossusnaut in mind creating this thread.

Originally posted by guy222
kind reminder supes isn't goin to speedblitz everyone yet alone one who has juggernaut's power

b real friends

said before, i know kmc rules, but all citing supes speedblitzes for wins isn't a fair and just way for a win and to me borderline sillyness it is what it is

for me and i'm 45 years young, the team wins

carry on

Superman > Gladiator

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/1/15047/597676-juggs_gladiator1_super.jpg

Originally posted by Odekahn
Superman > Gladiator

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/1/15047/597676-juggs_gladiator1_super.jpg
I wouldn't have said that if I were you.

I ain't scurred. Although, I do see a thread derail approaching. Oh well, I'll get back to the discussion because I don't want to distract from the OP. Give Thor his hammer and I might be arguing the other way. Take it away from him and Superman doesn't even break a sweat.

Originally posted by Odekahn
I ain't scurred. Although, I do see a thread derail approaching. Oh well, I'll get back to the discussion because I don't want to distract from the OP. Give Thor his hammer and I might be arguing the other way. Take it away from him and Superman doesn't even break a sweat.
Just giving you a heads up. It would be a stalemate again as usually if thor gets mjolnir here. Ben and piotr are non factors here.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Its to death and I doubt that OP had colossusnaut in mind creating this thread.


Thread creater didn't say classic... Gotta roll with the thread and use the current character... Ooooo... wait a minute that doesn't help your rant... It must be classic.

The team is outclassed regardless.

Originally posted by Tony Stark
Thread creater didn't say classic... Gotta roll with the thread and use the current character... Ooooo... wait a minute that doesn't help your rant... It must be classic.
What rant? Why would someone include a functionally immortal being in a death match?

So if GOD wanted to kill classic Juggs he couldn't?

Colossus or Thor solos.

Originally posted by Tony Stark
So if GOD wanted to kill classic Juggs he couldn't?
I forgot to mention that God isn't in this thread.

Originally posted by carver9
Colossus or Thor solos.

ROFLMFAO stop trolling.

Originally posted by carver9
Colossus or Thor solos.
Lulz.

Originally posted by Odekahn
ROFLMFAO stop trolling.
That's like asking water to stop being wet.

Originally posted by abhilegend
I forgot to mention that God isn't in this thread.

But, your saying Colossernaut is immortal and can't be killed? He either can be or he can't be.

Originally posted by Odekahn
ROFLMFAO stop trolling.

We use current versions. Current Superman gets one shotted by either Thor or Colossus and gets beat down by Thing imo. Even if it was prereboot Supes, Thor without his hammer would give him a hell of a fight, add Colossus and what I've stated is still true.

Originally posted by carver9
We use current versions. Current Superman gets one shotted by either Thor or Colossus and gets beat down by Thing imo. Even if it was prereboot Supes, Thor without his hammer would give him a hell of a fight, add Colossus and what I've stated is still true.

Please, lol. He'd do the same thing to them that he did to Hal Jordan in Justice League # 1.

Originally posted by Tony Stark
But, your saying Colossernaut is immortal and can't be killed? He either can be or he can't be. Originally posted by abhilegend
What rant? Why would someone include a functionally immortal being in a death match?
Read carefully next time.

Originally posted by carver9
We use current versions. Current Superman gets one shotted by either Thor or Colossus and gets beat down by Thing imo. Even if it was prereboot Supes, Thor without his hammer would give him a hell of a fight, add Colossus and what I've stated is still true. Originally posted by abhilegend
Lulz.

Originally posted by Odekahn
Please, lol. He'd do the same thing to them that he did to Hal Jordan in Justice League # 1.

Whats Hal best ft...especially during that era? Hal has been getting his a** whipped by pretty much everyone. He's a amateur. So tell me these fts that puts current Superman above Wonderman?

Originally posted by carver9
Current Superman gets one shotted by either Thor or Colossus and gets beat down by Thing imo.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris




The truth is so funny.

lol@Thor without MJOLNIR giving pre-reboot Supes a hell of a fight

lol @ the Thing would beat down Superman. I honestly can't stop laughing.

Originally posted by carver9
Whats Hal best ft...especially during that era? Hal has been getting his a** whipped by pretty much everyone. He's a amateur. So tell me these fts that puts current Superman above Wonderman?

How about hitting Flash? How about the strength he portrayed while doing it? And you can discredit Hal all you want, but he simply got speedblizted.

We're 7 issues into the new 52 and you're asking for feats to match against years of issues. /facepalm

Originally posted by Zack Fair
lol@Thor without MJOLNIR giving pre-reboot Supes a hell of a fight

So Current Supes can best Thor?

Originally posted by Odekahn
How about hitting Flash? How about the strength he portrayed while doing it? And you can discredit Hal all you want, but he simply got speedblizted.

We're 7 issues into the new 52 and you're asking for feats to match against years of issues. /facepalm

Lol...so you don't have anything proving that Hal is mid to high Herald. Make a thread. Current Hal vs either Surfer or Thor. Naah, don't even use those two...make a thread with Hal vs Firelord.

Originally posted by carver9
So Current Supes can best Thor?
facepalm @ lack of reading comprehension.

I'm going to make a Superman vs the Thing thread.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol...so you don't have anything proving that Hal is mid to high Herald. Make a thread. Current Hal vs either Surfer or Thor. Naah, don't even use those two...make a thread with Hal vs Firelord.
You know that gls retain all their feats even PC feats, right? Two words Krona buster.

Originally posted by abhilegend
You know that gls retain all their feats even PC feats, right? Two words Krona buster.

Not during the reboot...no, they don't.

I'll take the team, if it's current versions all around.

Thor would beat current Superman solo. Adding Colossus, who can jump to a higher tier at will, is overkill.

Assuming it's pre-reboot Superman, I'd give him the majority over Thor without his hammer (Although it'd be a good fight) and he could probably beat Colossus through battle field removal (At least eventually) but together? His going to be grabbing his ankles sooner or later.

Thing is useless in either situation.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Thor would beat current Superman solo. Adding Colossus, who can jump to a higher tier at will, is overkill.

Assuming it's pre-reboot Superman, I'd give him the majority over Thor without his hammer (Although it'd be a good fight) and he could probably beat Colossus through battle field removal (At least eventually) but together? His going to be grabbing his ankles sooner or later.

Thing is useless in either situation.

Originally posted by Odekahn
Superman > Gladiator

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/1/15047/597676-juggs_gladiator1_super.jpg

Non-cannon.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Thor would beat current Superman solo. Adding Colossus, who can jump to a higher tier at will, is overkill.

Assuming it's pre-reboot Superman, I'd give him the majority over Thor without his hammer (Although it'd be a good fight) and he could probably beat Colossus through battle field removal (At least eventually) but together? His going to be grabbing his ankles sooner or later.

Thing is useless in either situation.
A mjolnirless thor giving a bloodlusted preboot superman a good fight? Lulz. I don't think the OP meant colossusnaut here.

Originally posted by carver9
Not during the reboot...no, they don't.
What do you mean "during the reboot"? Yes they do.

Thor with his hammer vs Superman is a fairly close fight. That will be debated until their are no more comics books being written, and probably even after that. Thor without his hammer vs Superman is a massacre. Thing is clearly useless, and even if this is current Colossus, this team is still losing.

Aren't you the dude who thinks that Superman is ten times stronger than Thor?

Originally posted by abhilegend
A mjolnirless thor giving a bloodlusted preboot superman a good fight? Lulz. I don't think the OP meant colossusnaut here.

So both sides are blood lusted? Then yes, he would, at least if Superman goes for the raw strength approach.

That may very well be true but I can't read minds so until the OP clarifies, I'm assuming he is.

Originally posted by Zack Fair
lol@Thor without MJOLNIR giving pre-reboot Supes a hell of a fight Yeah, like he didn't give Desak a hell of a fight.

If this is supposed to be pure H2H then Superman wins. Thor is is only challenge Ben and THing add nothing to this fight.

HEck even without his hammer and being able to use his weather powers I would still probably give it to Superman cause it seems like Thor needs his hammer to get his full arsenal in.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Yeah, like he didn't give Desak a hell of a fight.

Didn't you get the memo? Thor lost to Tutinax and got punked by Taurus, he's a weakling now and other appearances don't matter.

We also have to ignore the less than stellar (Even embarrassing depending on where you think he ranks) showings Superman had in the last few years.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Aren't you the dude who thinks that Superman is ten times stronger than Thor?



So both sides are blood lusted? Then yes, he would, at least if Superman goes for the raw strength approach.

That may very well be true but I can't read minds so until the OP clarifies, I'm assuming he is.
Why would he do that? He would know that thor is a god of thunder and he knows about his weaknesses. This is a "to death" fight. You might be right, but its meaningless to have a functionally immortal being in a to death match.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Didn't you get the memo? Thor lost to Tutinax and got punked by Taurus, he's a weakling now and other appearances don't matter.

We also have to ignore the less than stellar (Even embarrassing depending on where you think he ranks) showings Superman had in the last few years.
Too bad kal isn't a slow, mindless brute. Hey, he was purposefully nerfed down, what's goldielock's excuse of getting koed by an exploding jet?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Why would he do that? He would know that thor is a god of thunder and he knows about his weaknesses. This is a "to death" fight. You might be right, but its meaningless to have a functionally immortal being in a to death match.

Because inhibited by rage, character's don't always think straight and he's brawled often enough, even when desperate or pissed off, that's it's a very possible scenario.

So what? I've seen far stupider threads.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus


So what? I've seen far stupider threads.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=560512

never forgot about this one. The OP makes me laugh every time I read it.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Aren't you the dude who thinks that Superman is ten times stronger than Thor?



If you're referring to me, yeah, I think he is, and I base that on the WM showings for Thor, as well as a comparison of the best strength feats of both characters. But like I've said, the Hulk is a billion times stronger than Doctor Strange, but I still think Dr. Strange is going to massacre the Hulk in a fight. Thor with his hammer, against Superman is a wash IMO, mainly because of all the things Thor can do with it. Without it, he doesn't stand a chance.

Originally posted by Damborgson
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=560512

never forgot about this one. The OP makes me laugh every time I read it.

That. Is. Hilarious.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Because inhibited by rage, character's don't always think straight and he's brawled often enough, even when desperate or pissed off, that's it's a very possible scenario.

So what? I've seen far stupider threads.
Its not herochat. There is no rule stating that characters would fight exactly like they do in majority. He's not stated to be in mindless grief in this fight. Yeah, carv's threads for example.mhmm

Originally posted by abhilegend
its meaningless to have a functionally immortal being in a to death match.

I hate when people say this. Juggernaut or Colossunaut are not immortal. Practically no one in comics are truly immortal. It's like saying Odin is omnipotent.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
If you're referring to me, yeah, I think he is, and I base that on the WM showings for Thor,

Yes, you. Which showings would that be exactly? And just to be clear, you do realize that Thor gaining an amp of ten times was mentioned only once, for most intents and purposes, it's just him seeing red.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
as well as a comparison of the best strength feats of both characters.

And you came to the conclusion that Superman is ten times stronger than Thor? What feats and fights have you been reading?

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
But like I've said, the Hulk is a billion times stronger than Doctor Strange, but I still think Dr. Strange is going to massacre the Hulk in a fight. Thor with his hammer, against Superman is a wash IMO, mainly because of all the things Thor can do with it. Without it, he doesn't stand a chance.

Alright.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
I hate when people say this. Juggernaut or Colossunaut are not immortal. Practically no one in comics are truly immortal. It's like saying Odin is omnipotent.
I said "functionally immortal". Cain was reduced to skeleton and he wasn't even slowed down.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Its not herochat. There is no rule stating that characters would fight exactly like they do in majority. He's not stated to be in mindless grief in this fight. Yeah, carv's threads for example.mhmm

I assume characters would fight like they do most of the time in a similar scenario.

Superman has fought like a brick even when blood lusted or desperate. He's done it more than a few times actually. Even when he beat down Darkseid, he used speed to avoid the Omega Effect and went into beat him down with my fists mode.

I'm not saying Superman has to fight like a brick, but based on his track record, you can't honestly say that it isn't the likelier scenario. If Thor was busting out weather effects and such, I'd be more inclined to believe he'd use it, but neither of these two get versatile purely out of convenience often.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Yes, you. Which showings would that be exactly? And just to be clear, you do realize that Thor gaining an amp of ten times was mentioned only once, for most intents and purposes, it's just him seeing red.



And you came to the conclusion that Superman is ten times stronger than Thor? What feats and fights have you been reading?



Alright.

Well, I've already gone over this in another thread (I can't remember which one) so I don't want to do it again really, but in brief off the top of my head:

Thor has a few really impressive strength showings (like the world engine feat) but not NEARLY as many really high end strength feats as Superman. And Thor's strength HAS been shown to have limits many times (lifting Asgard for example, off the top of my head).

Superman lifting infinite weight multiple times, lifting black holes, shattering time and space with his punches, etc. shows Superman's strength is pretty much as high as it needs to be for any given task. His durability is also INSANE.

This is not to knock Thor, because I love Thor, but in terms of durability and strength, in my opinion at least, because that's all comic book debates are after all, Superman is in a higher class than Thor.

Thor though with his hammer can contain blasts that can destroy 1/5 of the universe, make vortexes, teleport skyfathers against their will, drain people's souls, energy manipulation, blasts and re-direction, etc. And to me, that's what makes the fight between the two a wash.

this is a one sided fight and is designed to favor supes. Peter and ben are no factors and cannot even inflict damage on supes. Removing thors hammer you just took half of thors powers away. this is like saying........


thor with all his powers vs supes minus is speed , HV,superbreath etc....


supes wins this fight.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
Well, I've already gone over this in another thread (I can't remember which one) so I don't want to do it again really, but in brief off the top of my head:

Thor has a few really impressive strength showings (like the world engine feat) but not NEARLY as many really high end strength feats as Superman. And Thor's strength HAS been shown to have limits many times (lifting Asgard for example, off the top of my head).

Superman lifting infinite weight multiple times, lifting black holes, shattering time and space with his punches, etc. shows Superman's strength is pretty much as high as it needs to be for any given task. His durability is also INSANE.

This is not to knock Thor, because I love Thor, but in terms of durability and strength, in my opinion at least, because that's all comic book debates are after all, Superman is in a higher class than Thor.

Thor though with his hammer can contain blasts that can destroy 1/5 of the universe, make vortexes, teleport skyfathers against their will, drain people's souls, energy manipulation, blasts and re-direction, etc. And to me, that's what makes the fight between the two a wash.

@ pillar of osiris

The superman that thor fight, was it pc or post crisis?


The superman that hulk Fight was pc, and it seems sans cis (hulk getting tired),if superman kept still and let hulk punch him hulk would of eventually reach his strength level imo.
First nothing, then vibrations, than greater vibrations, than superman starts blocking etc
And thats PC superman.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
Well, I've already gone over this in another thread (I can't remember which one) so I don't want to do it again really, but in brief off the top of my head:

Indulge me, please.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
Thor has a few really impressive strength showings (like the world engine feat) but not NEARLY as many really high end strength feats as Superman.

It's true that Superman has more high end, completely non combat related, strength feats, but Thor has enough under his belt, that the number difference in no way supports the argument that he's ten times weaker.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
And Thor's strength HAS been shown to have limits many times (lifting Asgard for example, off the top of my head).

What do you mean limits? Coming across someone who's stronger than him or struggling to lift something with help? Superman has plenty of those as well, I've never really focused on this aspect but I doubt Thor has more of those type of showings than Superman.

Out of curiosity, do you mean when he lifted Asgard with Beta Ray Bill? If so, LOL, I'm gonna rock your world with some of the shit that happened in the New Krypton arc.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
Superman lifting infinite weight multiple times, lifting black holes, shattering time and space with his punches, etc. shows Superman's strength is pretty much as high as it needs to be for any given task. His durability is also INSANE.

Midgard Serpent, Kronan Ray, World Engine, Dimensional Barrier etc.

For the record, Superman hasn't lifted infinite weight or black holes multiple times, unless I've missed a few feats, and there is some context to note regarding that Infinite Crisis showing.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
This is not to knock Thor, because I love Thor, but in terms of durability and strength, in my opinion at least, because that's all comic book debates are after all, Superman is in a higher class than Thor.

Thor though with his hammer can contain blasts that can destroy 1/5 of the universe, make vortexes, teleport skyfathers against their will, drain people's souls, energy manipulation, blasts and re-direction, etc. And to me, that's what makes the fight between the two a wash.

I strongly disagree with your stance.

Originally posted by carver9

Well at least his superman doesn't destroy planet via a wave of his hands.ermm

Originally posted by carver9


Originally posted by carver9
Current Superman gets one shotted by either Thor or Colossus and gets beat down by Thing imo.

supes would be up shit creek if thor entered the WM state.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I assume characters would fight like they do most of the time in a similar scenario.

Superman has fought like a brick even when blood lusted or desperate. He's done it more than a few times actually. Even when he beat down Darkseid, he used speed to avoid the Omega Effect and went into beat him down with my fists mode.

I'm not saying Superman has to fight like a brick, but based on his track record, you can't honestly say that it isn't the likelier scenario. If Thor was busting out weather effects and such, I'd be more inclined to believe he'd use it, but neither of these two get versatile purely out of convenience often.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Its not herochat. There is no rule stating that characters would fight exactly like they do in majority. He's not stated to be in mindless grief in this fight. Yeah, carv's threads for example.mhmm
What part of its not herochat you didn't get? Yes characters fight in character but they also fight to best of their abilities and kal has enough showings for someone like him to ensure that he would speedblitz. Sadly thor doesn't have enough showings without mjolnir to suggest that, remember TMT 385.

Superman IS stronger than Thor. Even the Byrne-Era Superman had at least one strength feat that is at least comparable to the Midgard Serpent, if not more impressive, in moving a space ship the size of a small moon through hyperspace(which he said was the tough part).

Superman's also single-handedly pulled Darkseid from The Source Wall(which was a feat he wasn't sure was possible, and at this point he had already done such mind-boggling feats like helped move the Moon at near-lightspeed, contained a miniature black hole in his hands, and helped slow down the "weight of eternity," and yet he wasn't sure if this was even possible. By comparison, it took Supergil, Power Girl, Linda Danvers, Cir-El and what looked like a Silver Age Supergirl to pull Superman from The Source Wall, and I don't see Thor equaling the combined strength of five alternate Supergirls), Superman broke Wonder Woman's forearm by GRABBING it and applying pressure, OVER HER PROTECTIVE BRACELETS, and Wonder Woman even stated before that, when Superman was hitting her and she blocked them, that they can only take so much. When time was being ****ed with, Superman even destroyed them in another instance when he killed Wonder Woman. And how durable are these? They've deflected the Omega Beams and also deflected a combined blast from the entire Greek Pantheon.

Superman has even "shattered the boundaries of space and time" as a SIDE-EFFECT of his punches when he fought Kal-L while INFINITE CRISIS was going on. The only comparable example I know of for Thor is something along the lines of sending a shockwave through-out reality, which not only is not as impressive as shattering space/time, but was essentially a shared feat(as it happened when two Mjolnirs COLLIDED as opposed to space/time shattering on the punch's impact), and had mystical energy involved. So it required help, Mjolnir, and wasn't even a pure strength feat, on top of even ignoring those was less impressive.

Then we also have Superman lifting a book with infinite pages. Even if he had help, it was due to he wasn't sure if it could be lifted. And his dimensional counter-part showed he could lift it on his own, so yes, Superman could've lifted it on his own. Considering Superman's high-end strength feats, things like grabbing, breaking the forward momentum and throwing with relative ease a space ship the size of a small moon after it came out of hyperspace(Post-DEATH OF SUPERMAN/RETURN OF SUPERMAN power-up, but before the Mongul Jr. training), moving a space ship the size of a small moon through hyperspace(Byrne-era), bracing the Moon from being moved out of it's orbit by "Alchemical Engines" using "geometrically increasing force,"(I believe this was before the Mongul Jr. training that further increased his power) nearly punching the Moon out of orbit while suffering from Kryptonite poisoning(also Pre-Mongul Jr. training), one-shotting an asteroid that had to be much larger than Mars(also Post-DEATH OF SUPERMAN but Pre-Mongul Jr.), and others are really average by comparison.

Whereas many of Thor's high-end feats are merely just comparable to Superman's fairly average feats. And if you want to talk relative strength, you bring-up fighting Hulk. Superman's got being able to briefly overwhelm DOOMSDAY, has held his own against Superboy Prime(someone who easily broke-out of the dimensional prison when it took Kal-L, who's roughly equal to Superman, much longer to break out of, had moved planets at faster than lightspeed to rearrange the universe so Oa was no longer at it's center, and, unless there was a retcon, Kal-L wasn't losing his powers, yet Superboy Prime was still able to beat him nearly to death before Superman interrupted while Superboy Prime was rapidly losing his powers, and Kal-L was hurt badly enough to be killed), he was able to throw both Ursa and Non(both Kryptonians, but Non is the Kryptonian equivalent of a genetic freak like Brock Lesnar. off when they were trying to restrain him. He's thrown off 5 Kryptonian Soldiers attempting to restrain him(when they all had a leverage advantage and were using two arms to restrain a single arm or leg, with the fifth putting Superman in a headlock).

Even before the Mongul Jr. training, the combined strength of Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, Big Barda, Linda Danvers Supergirl, Steel and Superboy were barely capable of restraining Superman, AFTER he had been fighting with Orion. And he fought evenly with Kal-L, an alternate version of him that was also strong enough to "shatter the boundaries of space and time" as a side-effect of his punches, as well as move planets with ease and actually created a SUN with his strength by throwing meteorites into each other with enough force to create the nuclear reaction required for a star to be born. Honestly, it's looking like Superman's a LOT stronger than Thor, considering average feats for Superman are comparable to most of Thor's high-end feats. And Superman's high-end feats dwarf Thor's absolutely best feats. This is a big advantage for Superman.

Answer my question

Then there's superman's maggedon feat also.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
Superman IS stronger than Thor. Even the Byrne-Era Superman had at least one strength feat that is at least comparable to the Midgard Serpent, if not more impressive, in moving a space ship the size of a small moon through hyperspace(which he said was the tough part).

Superman's also single-handedly pulled Darkseid from The Source Wall(which was a feat he wasn't sure was possible, and at this point he had already done such mind-boggling feats like helped move the Moon at near-lightspeed, contained a miniature black hole in his hands, and helped slow down the "weight of eternity," and yet he wasn't sure if this was even possible. By comparison, it took Supergil, Power Girl, Linda Danvers, Cir-El and what looked like a Silver Age Supergirl to pull Superman from The Source Wall, and I don't see Thor equaling the combined strength of five alternate Supergirls), Superman broke Wonder Woman's forearm by GRABBING it and applying pressure, OVER HER PROTECTIVE BRACELETS, and Wonder Woman even stated before that, when Superman was hitting her and she blocked them, that they can only take so much. When time was being ****ed with, Superman even destroyed them in another instance when he killed Wonder Woman. And how durable are these? They've deflected the Omega Beams and also deflected a combined blast from the entire Greek Pantheon.

Superman has even "shattered the boundaries of space and time" as a SIDE-EFFECT of his punches when he fought Kal-L while INFINITE CRISIS was going on. The only comparable example I know of for Thor is something along the lines of sending a shockwave through-out reality, which not only is not as impressive as shattering space/time, but was essentially a shared feat(as it happened when two Mjolnirs COLLIDED as opposed to space/time shattering on the punch's impact), and had mystical energy involved. So it required help, Mjolnir, and wasn't even a pure strength feat, on top of even ignoring those was less impressive.

Then we also have Superman lifting a book with infinite pages. Even if he had help, it was due to he wasn't sure if it could be lifted. And his dimensional counter-part showed he could lift it on his own, so yes, Superman could've lifted it on his own. Considering Superman's high-end strength feats, things like grabbing, breaking the forward momentum and throwing with relative ease a space ship the size of a small moon after it came out of hyperspace(Post-DEATH OF SUPERMAN/RETURN OF SUPERMAN power-up, but before the Mongul Jr. training), moving a space ship the size of a small moon through hyperspace(Byrne-era), bracing the Moon from being moved out of it's orbit by "Alchemical Engines" using "geometrically increasing force,"(I believe this was before the Mongul Jr. training that further increased his power) nearly punching the Moon out of orbit while suffering from Kryptonite poisoning(also Pre-Mongul Jr. training), one-shotting an asteroid that had to be much larger than Mars(also Post-DEATH OF SUPERMAN but Pre-Mongul Jr.), and others are really average by comparison.

Whereas many of Thor's high-end feats are merely just comparable to Superman's fairly average feats. And if you want to talk relative strength, you bring-up fighting Hulk. Superman's got being able to briefly overwhelm DOOMSDAY(who you agree is more powerful than Hulk), has held his own against Superboy Prime(someone who easily broke-out of the dimensional prison when it took Kal-L, who's roughly equal to Superman, much longer to break out of, had moved planets at faster than lightspeed to rearrange the universe so Oa was no longer at it's center, and, unless there was a retcon, Kal-L wasn't losing his powers, yet Superboy Prime was still able to beat him nearly to death before Superman interrupted while Superboy Prime was rapidly losing his powers, and Kal-L was hurt badly enough to be killed), he was able to throw both Ursa and Non(both Kryptonians, but Non is the Kryptonian equivalent of a genetic freak like Brock Lesnar. off when they were trying to restrain him. He's thrown off 5 Kryptonian Soldiers attempting to restrain him(when they all had a leverage advantage and were using two arms to restrain a single arm or leg, with the fifth putting Superman in a headlock).

Even before the Mongul Jr. training, the combined strength of Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, Big Barda, Linda Danvers Supergirl, Steel and Superboy were barely capable of restraining Superman, AFTER he had been fighting with Orion. And he fought evenly with Kal-L, an alternate version of him that was also strong enough to "shatter the boundaries of space and time" as a side-effect of his punches, as well as move planets with ease and actually created a SUN with his strength by throwing meteorites into each other with enough force to create the nuclear reaction required for a star to be born. Honestly, it's looking like Superman's about twice as strong as Thor, considering average feats for Superman are comparable to most of Thor's high-end feats. And Superman's high-end feats dwarf Thor's absolutely best feats. This is a big advantage for Superman. Thats simply because marvel doesnt write characters doing ridiculous high end level things like that and never will, even though there is no writer who would say superman is stronger than thor physically.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
Then there's superman's maggedon feat also. Thor is physically stronger and more powerful than superman.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f95/t368668.html

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
Answer my question
What question?
@Pillar, when did this "geomatrically increasing pressure" on moon happened?

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
Thor is physically stronger and more powerful than superman.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f95/t368668.html
Lulz.

this question
Originally posted by Colossus-Big C


The superman that thor fight, was it pc or post crisis?


The superman that hulk Fight was pc, and it seems sans cis (hulk getting tired),if superman kept still and let hulk punch him hulk would of eventually reach his strength level imo.
First nothing, then vibrations, than greater vibrations, than superman starts blocking etc
And thats PC superman.

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
this question
Post crisis. Its canon for dc and canon with marvel is debatable. That hulk fight is non canon.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris


You don't even know about the fts you mention. Lol...sad little man, very sad little man.

Originally posted by abhilegend
What question?
@Pillar, when did this "geomatrically increasing pressure" on moon happened?

JLA: The Century War

Originally posted by carver9
You don't even know about the fts you mention. Lol...sad little man, very sad little man.
Look who's talking?

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
JLA: The Century War
Is it a mini or TPB?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Look who's talking?

I post scans proving my case. 90% of the time, you are just in denial and ignore things that are plainly stated on panel.

Originally posted by carver9
I post scans proving my case. 90% of the time, you are just in denial and ignore things that are plainly stated on panel.

Originally posted by carver9
Current Superman gets one shotted by either Thor or Colossus and gets beat down by Thing imo.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Is it a mini or TPB?

TPB

Originally posted by carver9
I post scans proving my case. 90% of the time, you are just in denial and ignore things that are plainly stated on panel.
What? Are you for real?

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
TPB
Issue numbers?

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris


Doomsday, Despero, Wonder Woman (you stated she was 5 times stronger than Thor), Black Adam, Captain Marvel...Thor is a flee to all of these people which is basically what you've stated.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
-snip-

A big rant about Superman's higher end showings (Most of which I know of), doesn't prove your point or convince me. I'm also still curious about the evidence you initially listed (The Warrior Madness showing).

You also completely ignored everything else I pointed out, not the best tactic to use in a discussion.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
as well as move planets with ease and actually created a SUN with his strength by throwing meteorites into each other with enough force to create the nuclear reaction required for a star to be born.
Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
nearly punching the Moon out of orbit while suffering from Kryptonite poisoning(also Pre-Mongul Jr. training), one-shotting an asteroid that had to be much larger than Mars(also Post-DEATH OF SUPERMAN but Pre-Mongul Jr.),
I haven't seen any of these showings suprisingly, do you have an issue number?

And when has Superman moved planets with ease? Have you actually read any of the planet moving feats shown Post Crisis?

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, Big Barda, Linda Danvers Supergirl, Steel and Superboy were barely capable of restraining Superman, AFTER he had been fighting with Orion

Barely capable of restraining? Can I have an issue number, because we must be talking about a different scene.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
Superman broke Wonder Woman's forearm by GRABBING it and applying pressure, OVER HER PROTECTIVE BRACELETS, and Wonder Woman even stated before that, when Superman was hitting her and she blocked them, that they can only take so much. When time was being ****ed with, Superman even destroyed them in another instance when he killed Wonder Woman. And how durable are these? They've deflected the Omega Beams and also deflected a combined blast from the entire Greek Pantheon

I also have a problem with the way this line of thinking is going. Wonder Woman's bracers aren't across the board on their high end level, Superman's fists aren't the only things that have circumvented them.

It should be noted, that when he shattered them, it wasn't entirely in the real reality.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
breaking the forward momentum and throwing with relative ease a space ship the size of a small moon after it came out of hyperspace

Okay, I don't think you understand what the word ease means.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
The only comparable example I know of for Thor is something along the lines of sending a shockwave through-out reality, which not only is not as impressive as shattering space/time, but was essentially a shared feat(as it happened when two Mjolnirs COLLIDED as opposed to space/time shattering on the punch's impact), and had mystical energy involved. So it required help, Mjolnir, and wasn't even a pure strength feat, on top of even ignoring those was less impressive.

Are you referring to Dargo and Masterson colliding? I don't believe it's less impressive. The force of them striking their hammers sent a shockwave through creation that apparently and they released a force comparable to the Big Bang. I'd usually call that hyperbole but the power released by them was going to be used to collapse all alternate time lines.

Untrue.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
A big rant about Superman's higher end showings (Most of which I know of), doesn't prove your point or convince me. I'm also still curious about the evidence you initially listed (The Warrior Madness showing).

You also completely ignored everything else I pointed out, not the best tactic to use in a discussion.



I haven't seen any of these showings suprisingly, do you have an issue number?

And when has Superman moved planets with ease? Have you actually read any of the planet moving feats shown Post Crisis?



Barely capable of restraining? Can I have an issue number, because we must be talking about a different scene.



I also have a problem with the way this line of thinking is going. Wonder Woman's bracers aren't across the board on their high end level, Superman's fists aren't the only things that have circumvented them.

It should be noted, that when he shattered them, it wasn't entirely in the real reality.



Okay, I don't think you understand what the word ease means.



Are you referring to Dargo and Masterson colliding? I don't believe it's less impressive. The force of them striking their hammers sent a shockwave through creation that apparently and they released a force comparable to the Big Bang. I'd usually call that hyperbole but the power released by them was going to be used to collapse all alternate time lines.
I've posted them in pc kryptonians respect thread. I believe its Superman 58. Oh and Kal-L snuffed a star with his breath.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Extinguishes a star with super-breath

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Pre-crisis/Superman091-08.jpg Originally posted by abhilegend
Creates a sun and gently pushes a planet back into orbit

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Pre-crisis/Superman058-45.jpg

He was talking about superman 158 or 159 I believe. KOTW, he's right. J'onn clearly said they couldn't hold him for long. It happened again in S/B 32 with j'onn, PG, kilowog, ultraa and a load of other heroes after he was fighting non-stop for days IIRC. The reality was same, just a little altered. Diana had lasso of truth, but her bracelets were weak because superman broke them, right? Who else has threatened to break them? He wasn't any way, shape or form looked uncomfortable tossing that ship. You know that isn't comparable to what happened in IC rage. Kal is stronger than thor, how much its debatable.

Originally posted by Sergeant Rock
thor would probably get owned by almost anyone without the hammer it absorbs all blasts for him etc. He really isn't up to Superman without it, he'd struggle with Wolverine.

It's pretty clear Pillar get most of his fts from the respect thread because he doeant know the context behind any of them.

Originally posted by Sergeant Rock
thor would probably get owned by almost anyone without the hammer it absorbs all blasts for him etc. He really isn't up to Superman without it, he'd struggle with Wolverine.

I wouldn't say that at all. Without the hammer he's basically still Hercules level durability and strength (maybe a little better in both). He can also still control weather and the earth and I'm pretty sure he can fly without it as well. He'd still destroy Wolverine without the hammer, but you are right, he's nowhere close to Superman without the hammer.

Originally posted by carver9
It's pretty clear Pillar get most of his fts from the respect thread because he doeant know the context behind any of them.

This coming from the guy who says the Thing would beat down Superman.

Originally posted by carver9
It's pretty clear Pillar get most of his fts from the respect thread because he doeant know the context behind any of them.

Like you saying the 50 supernova thing was "made up" when it's stated nowhere that it was made up, and it was actually told as a flashback, which obviously confused you into thinking it didn't actually happen.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
A big rant about Superman's higher end showings (Most of which I know of), doesn't prove your point or convince me.

I'm not sure what you're looking for then. If "ranting" about his high end showings isn't evidence as to how strong Superman is, what am I supposed to do? Rattle off a list of his low showings? I also don't really care if I convince you or not, if you want to ignore all of Superman's high end showings that's your choice. I think you'll be hard pressed to find anyone who thinks Thor is as strong as Superman (besides Carver, who thinks that the Thing would beat down Superman), and I doubt even he would be delusional enough to think Thor without his hammer is lasting very long against Superman at all.

And you say that it was only stated once that Warrior's madness increased his strength tenfold, like that somehow means it doesn't? The fact is, it has been stated it increases his strength tenfold, until I see a comic that says otherwise, that's the evidence i'm going by. If you increased Superman's strength tenfold, he'd be retconning reality with each punch. Thor against Thanos with WM wasn't all that impressive to be honest, considering his strength was supposed to TEN TIMES normal levels.

If you want to look at direct evidence, Superman caught Thor's hammer in one hand and tossed him away. And yes, that's a canon fight despite what Marvel fans wish.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
Like you saying the 50 supernova thing was "made up" when it's stated nowhere that it was made up, and it was actually told as a flashback, which obviously confused you into thinking it didn't actually happen.

Read the story, then holla back at me.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Thor would beat current Superman solo. Adding Colossus, who can jump to a higher tier at will, is overkill.

Assuming it's pre-reboot Superman, I'd give him the majority over Thor without his hammer (Although it'd be a good fight) and he could probably beat Colossus through battle field removal (At least eventually) but together? His going to be grabbing his ankles sooner or later.

Thing is useless in either situation.

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
Thor is physically stronger and more powerful than superman.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f95/t368668.html The question was who was more powerful and not who is stronger. It's irrelevant anyway since a single writer's opinions hold no water when feats says differently. Hell Thor wasn't even bullet proof in his early days (or he barely was). Superman was bulletproof from day one on the highest level.

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
Thats simply because marvel doesnt write characters doing ridiculous high end level things like that and never will, even though there is no writer who would say superman is stronger than thor physically.

All writers know and definitely would say that Superman is stronger. But who will win in a fight is where they may vary.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
This coming from the guy who says the Thing would beat down Superman. lol, are you serious? Did carver actually say that?

Carver said that speed is unrelated to distance and time. I wouldn't put any ludicrous claim past him.

Originally posted by carver9
Current Superman gets one shotted by either Thor or Colossus and gets beat down by Thing imo.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Carver said that speed is unrelated to distance and time. I wouldn't put any ludicrous claim past him.

Carver also said that space flight doesn't equal combat speed and proved this by showing Vulcan traveling ftl through space but failing to stop a sniper bullet (and you claimed that since the bullet was shot by an alien, so it must was going ftl...what kind of comback is that..wtf). I also showed you Ironman flying through space at light. Showed you Super Skrull, Rogue, Magneto flying 99% the speed of light through space, Ms. Marvel, Captain Mar-vell...none of these people can combat at light.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris


Show me some fts that suggest Current Supes can beat Thor and Colossonaut. Go visit respect threads like you tend to do.

Originally posted by guy222
kind reminder supes isn't goin to speedblitz everyone yet alone one who has juggernaut's power

b real friends

said before, i know kmc rules, but all citing supes speedblitzes for wins isn't a fair and just way for a win and to me borderline sillyness it is what it is

for me and i'm 45 years young, the team wins

carry on I agree it's just people trying to cbr their way to victory while the team somehow fights in character. Nicely done, guy. Team, hard.

Originally posted by Sergeant Rock
Thor is silly without the Hammer. Seriously without the Hammer he isn't even classic Hercules level.

http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss225/OdinBorson/BestGif.gif

Originally posted by carver9
Carver also said that space flight doesn't equal combat speed and proved this by showing Vulcan traveling ftl through space but failing to stop a sniper bullet (and you claimed that since the bullet was shot by an alien, so it must was going ftl...what kind of comback is that..wtf). I also showed you Ironman flying through space at light. Showed you Super Skrull, Rogue, Magneto flying 99% the speed of light through space, Ms. Marvel, Captain Mar-vell...none of these people can combat at light.

Um, Vulcan did stop that bullet. And you can't apply earth standards to alien tech anyway. There was no timeframe provided for the Iron Man thing. Accelerating to relativistic speed in space with continuous thrust is inevitable, if you understood basic physics. This is why reaction feats are also important, but you ignore them...

Originally posted by carver9
Carver also said that space flight doesn't equal combat speed and proved this by showing Vulcan traveling ftl through space but failing to stop a sniper bullet (and you claimed that since the bullet was shot by an alien, so it must was going ftl...what kind of comback is that..wtf). I also showed you Ironman flying through space at light. Showed you Super Skrull, Rogue, Magneto flying 99% the speed of light through space, Ms. Marvel, Captain Mar-vell...none of these people can combat at light.

What does that have to do with time and distance?

Originally posted by -Pr-
What does that have to do with time and distance?

He brought that up because of a previous debate we had a while back Thats involving space flight.

Originally posted by carver9
He brought that up because of a previous debate we had a while back Thats involving space flight.

I was asking how what you said in that post was connected to you saying distance and time have no bearing on speed.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Um, Vulcan did stop that bullet. And you can't apply earth standards to alien tech anyway. There was no timeframe provided for the Iron Man thing. Accelerating to relativistic speed in space with continuous thrust is inevitable, if you understood basic physics. This is why reaction feats are also important, but you ignore them...

Gladiator.stopped the bullet. Vulcan would have died if it wasn't for Gladiator. Lol at that bullet being light speed. Ironman and Sentry flew from Earth to the Sun with Void during mid sentence. Doesn't matter if it was thruster or not, its a space light speed ft. That still doesn't discredit my post like Super Skrull, Terrax, Firelord, Captain Mar-vell, Drax, Despero, along with thousands of others achieving light speed via space flight. Flight and combat speed are two different things MIKE. This is common knowledge...especially space flight.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I was asking how what you said in that post was connected to you saying distance and time have no bearing on speed.

He is mixing up what we discussed like 5yrs back. I agree with his part on that but the reasoning he is saying it is what I disagree with.

Originally posted by carver9
Gladiator.stopped the bullet. Vulcan would have died if it wasn't for Gladiator.

There's no way to prove that.



It's alien tech. We have no idea how it worked.



And Wolverine can say 10 pages worth of dialogue while he's in the middle of jumping at somebody. Speaking isn't such a good way to determine timeframe.



You never gave a timeframe for any of that stuff.



There's no such thing as "combat speed". There's just movement speed and reaction speed. If you have both then you can fight at that speed.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
There's no way to prove that.



It's alien tech. We have no idea how it worked.



And Wolverine can say 10 pages worth of dialogue while he's in the middle of jumping at somebody. Speaking isn't such a good way to determine timeframe.



You never gave a timeframe for any of that stuff.



There's no such thing as "combat speed". There's just movement speed and reaction speed. If you have both then you can fight at that speed.

Vulcan standing in front of an army preaching...don't even see the bullet coming...Gladiator saves his a**.

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb6/Enteithegreat/Imperial%20Guard/Kallark-ReacttoBullet.jpg

Lol...Vulcan flew from one end of a Galaxy to the other in a week...that FTL but he can't catch or see a bullet. Ironman and Sentry make it to the Sun during mid Sentence which again is ftl. Are you really implying that time has to be given every time someone achieve light speed via space when its pretty obvious it was done?

Are you also implying that Firelord and Terrax never achieved light speed in space?

Originally posted by carver9
Lol...Vulcan flew from one end of a Galaxy to the other in a week...

When?

Originally posted by -Pr-
When?

I already showed you this. It was a week, 2 weeks...one of the two...still ftl.

Ok, I was right...it was a week.

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb312/RespectThread/Vulcan/fights/random/fight%201/1.jpg

Made it to the Shiar empire which is located on the other side of the Galaxy is a week.

Originally posted by carver9
Vulcan standing in front of an army preaching...don't even see the bullet coming...Gladiator saves his a**.

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb6/Enteithegreat/Imperial%20Guard/Kallark-ReacttoBullet.jpg

And you know that it would have hurt him, or Gladiator just thought it would?

Heck, do you remember Vulcan's fight with Black Bolt? His body was getting disintegrated and he was rebuilding himself, so why do you think a bullet would kill him?

Unless of course, it wasn't a normal bullet...



There are two possibilities here:

1. Either that bullet couldn't have actually killed him, thus Gladiator didn't know what he was talking about, so you can't trust him on anything.

2. The bullet would have killed him, which would mean it was nothing like a normal bullet, so you can't say how fast it was going, or how it worked...

Either way, you lose.



I said that where?

Originally posted by Endless Mike
And you know that it would have hurt him, or Gladiator just thought it would?

Heck, do you remember Vulcan's fight with Black Bolt? His body was getting disintegrated and he was rebuilding himself, so why do you think a bullet would kill him?

Unless of course, it wasn't a normal bullet...



There are two possibilities here:

1. Either that bullet couldn't have actually killed him, thus Gladiator didn't know what he was talking about, so you can't trust him on anything.

2. The bullet would have killed him, which would mean it was nothing like a normal bullet, so you can't say how fast it was going, or how it worked...

Either way, you lose.



I said that where?

Lol @ this post.

Yes, laugh, when you don't have a rebuttal. You think a normal bullet could kill a guy who can regenerate from having his body disintegrated by Black Bolt's voice. That's a good one.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Yes, laugh, when you don't have a rebuttal. You think a normal bullet could kill a guy who can regenerate from having his body disintegrated by Black Bolt's voice. That's a good one.

First you have to prove the bullet was moving at light (lol). This doesn't have a thing to do with killing...the scan was posted to prove Vulcan couldn't react to a bullet.

^How's any of this relevant here?

No I don't. I only have to prove that either

1. It wasn't a normal bullet

or

2. Gladiator underestimated Vulcan's abilities.

Either one blows your argument out of the water.

I could also bring up the fact that being hit by something by surprise is different from not being able to react to it. A steamroller moving at 1 inch per second could still crush you from behind if you were looking the other way and didn't notice it coming.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Non-cannon.

The Dark Phoenix Saga isn't canon???

Originally posted by carver9
I already showed you this. It was a week, 2 weeks...one of the two...still ftl.

It wasn't from one end of the galaxy to another.

So no, you didn't.

Originally posted by abhilegend
^How's any of this relevant here?

It isn't, because Vulcan isn't Superman.

Originally posted by Odekahn
The Dark Phoenix Saga isn't canon???
It's from a comic based on a cartoon show.

Supes

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
I'm not sure what you're looking for then. If "ranting" about his high end showings isn't evidence as to how strong Superman is, what am I supposed to do? Rattle off a list of his low showings? I also don't really care if I convince you or not, if you want to ignore all of Superman's high end showings that's your choice. I think you'll be hard pressed to find anyone who thinks Thor is as strong as Superman (besides Carver, who thinks that the Thing would beat down Superman), and I doubt even he would be delusional enough to think Thor without his hammer is lasting very long against Superman at all.

It's relevant evidence, sure, but ignoring everything else I posted including my questioning of some of your claims, and giving me an essay about every Superman strength feat you can think of (Meaning canon or not, as well as some miss interpreted ones), doesn't do anybody any good. I know the majority of what you listed, Thor has comparable feats under his belt, albeit not as many (I can give you a list of his greatest hits if you'd like), but like I said earlier, he has a good enough repertoire that resorting to a numbers game in no way supports the argument that he's ten times weaker than Superman.

Fair enough, you don't have to convince me, I'm not really putting that much effort into doing so either. I know individuals who believe Thor/Superman to be mostly on par, but such information is completely irrelevant here. For the record, I think Carver was referring to the post reboot Superman.

The implication there being that I think Thor is completely on par with Superman, I don't. I'd give Clark the edge over Thor. In regards to his chances without Mjolnir, Superman should win, but chances are he'd slug it out for the most part, so Thor will give a good accounting for himself.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
And you say that it was only stated once that Warrior's madness increased his strength tenfold, like that somehow means it doesn't? The fact is, it has been stated it increases his strength tenfold, until I see a comic that says otherwise, that's the evidence i'm going by. If you increased Superman's strength tenfold, he'd be retconning reality with each punch.

Let me clarify: Up until about 1999, the Warrior Madness based on descriptions is the equivalent to someone losing their head and seeing red (With different clauses added every once in a while such as it being incurable). However, right before the Onslaught Saga concluded, Thor said that he might no longer be able to fight like a God due to spending so much time amongst mortals, i.e. he couldn't enter Warrior Madness, a state that amped his strength ten fold.

Do you understand? In every instance it's been used in, the idea that Thor received a ten times amp was never even introduced.

Now since you have an agenda, I doubt it ultimately matters to you, but the fact that writers as far as we know can't see into the future, they as a result didn't intend to give Thor any such large strength amp, so you're argument is somewhat laughable with a hint of desperation.

Fun fact: Despite showing up like once a decade or so in the past, since that new clause was added, the Warrior Madness has never been seen again. Which isn't surprising, who would want to have a Thor with ten times the strength running around? It'd be ridiculous.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
Thor against Thanos with WM wasn't all that impressive to be honest, considering his strength was supposed to TEN TIMES normal levels.



Thor wasn't in Warrior Madness during Blood and Thunder.

At this point, I'd wager your position is due to a lack of information as well as false information more than anything.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
If you want to look at direct evidence, Superman caught Thor's hammer in one hand and tossed him away. And yes, that's a canon fight despite what Marvel fans wish.

A bit of an oversimplification but it's true, Superman did come out looking as the stronger of the two. However, how you can read that fight and come to the conclusion that Thor's ten times weaker than Superman is beyond me.

Originally posted by abhilegend
I've posted them in pc kryptonians respect thread. I believe its Superman 58. Oh and Kal-L snuffed a star with his breath.

So Pre-Crisis, I guessed as much.

Originally posted by abhilegend
He was talking about superman 158 or 159 I believe. KOTW, he's right. J'onn clearly said they couldn't hold him for long. It happened again in S/B 32 with j'onn, PG, kilowog, ultraa and a load of other heroes after he was fighting non-stop for days IIRC.

Superman #158? That's the issue that Superboy and Steel entered Superman's body, the rest of the Justice League wasn't present as far as I recall.

According to him: Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, Big Barda, Supergirl, Steel and Superboy were barely capable of restraining Superman after he went a few rounds with Orion. That's the issue I'm interested in, and it's not Superman/Batman #32, that was still impressive (He had gone a few rounds with Blackrock Batman earlier, not sure about days), although John and Kara IIRC were the only two real strongmen.

Originally posted by abhilegend
The reality was same, just a little altered. Diana had lasso of truth, but her bracelets were weak because superman broke them, right?

Who else has threatened to break them?

While I think Loeb's Superman would own Diana in such a manner, I'm not entirely sure that he'd have him break her bracers so casually in the main reality, so it's something worth noting.

What is it with you and bemoaning any criticism of Superman? I'm not implying that they were fragile or weak, I am however pointing out that they aren't consistently on par with their best as seen with Sonic's scream, Ultra Man's heat vision, lightning etc. which is true.

Originally posted by abhilegend
He wasn't any way, shape or form looked uncomfortable tossing that ship.

Maybe where he come from, the word ease means something different, but as far as I know, it certainly doesn't apply to this scene:
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Strength/lifting/TheEarthStealersa-1.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Strength/lifting/TheEarthStealersb-1.jpg

Here comes the really hard part =/= Ease

Originally posted by abhilegend
You know that isn't comparable to what happened in IC rage. Kal is stronger than thor, how much its debatable.

Enlighten me, why not? Do you by any chance know the exact amount of force it takes to break a dimensional barrier in comparison to that of a Big Bang level force capable of collapsing all alternate time lines of existence into one? Sarcasm aside, still not sure how you can say they clearly aren't comparable.

It should be noted, Thor has shattered a portion of reality with a blow, closed a hole in dimensions by colliding fists with Hercules etc. He also destroyed dimensional portals from the land of the Faerie’s to Midgard by hammering, his suit was made of Iron, but why should I be the only one worried about context?

I think Pillar is using the Earth 2 (I think it was Earth 2 Superman but it wasn't our Supes) busting out of a group of heros that was holding him down. Forgot the issue number but its the one where Starman increase his weight a 100 fold and drops him (but he eventually gets up and bust out of the stacked heros). Pillar is getting his characters mixed up.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus


Maybe where he come from, the word ease means something different, but as far as I know, it certainly doesn't apply to this scene:
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Strength/lifting/TheEarthStealersa-1.jpg



Interesting. This scan has Superman admitting he has nothing like the power to push planets around.

Originally posted by vince_slice
Interesting. This scan has Superman admitting he has nothing like the power to push planets around.

Pretty much.

It was from the early 90's, so not Superman at the height of power inflation. Still, don't be fooled by some posters claiming Superman can easily move planets or whatever, that's complete and utter bullshit. Each time he's moved a planetary body Post Crisis, it took all his power and he had help.

And a lot of writers don't think elites should be moving planets, some consider mountain moving as their limit, different writers have different views. Not to mention that leading up to the reboot, Superman displayed a clear limitation of strength far below planet moving. Like I said, different writers and all.

It doesn't mean Superman's any weaker than say Gladiator, just because a writer thinks he should top out at mountains. The same would apply to the clone, plus, another writer might think otherwise.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
It was from the early 90's, so not Superman at the height of power inflation. Still, don't be fooled by some posters claiming Superman can easily move planets or whatever, that's complete and utter bullshit. Each time he's moved a planetary body Post Crisis, it took all his power and he had help.

And a lot of writers don't think elites should be moving planets, some consider mountain moving as their limit, different writers have different views. Not to mention that leading up to the reboot, Superman displayed a clear limitation of strength far below planet moving. Like I said, different writers and all.

It doesn't mean Superman's any weaker than say Gladiator, just because a writer thinks he should top out at mountains. The same would apply to the clone.

Stop bringing up Gladiator. I agree with you though, I wouldn't put Gladiator at Planet pushing either. I would say around the level you've stated, mountain pusher/lifter. That is still a high level of power imo even though I can see Gladiator and Superman straining to do this.

I can bring up Gladiator how often I want.

Superman/Gladiator may strain with mountain lifting or not, depends on the writer. They could also move one under a different pen.

While we're on the subject, I still can't believe people reference the Infinite Book from Limbo feat and claim it demonstrates infinite might with a straight face. I mean, what the f*ck? This is from the previous issue and a much better gauge of his awesome strength:
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Strength/lifting/finalcrisisbeyond3d01a.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Strength/lifting/finalcrisisbeyond3d01b.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Strength/lifting/finalcrisisbeyond3d01c.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Strength/lifting/finalcrisisbeyond3d01d.jpg

But that's just me.

Originally posted by vince_slice
Interesting. This scan has Superman admitting he has nothing like the power to push planets around.


And yet IIRC I saw him pushing a planet with a GL construck chaining him to the planet earth as he was pulling it.

It could be argued that GL was helping but I doubt it since it didn't show any propulsion to the construct.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I can bring up Gladiator how often I want.

Lol.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I can bring up Gladiator how often I want.

Superman/Gladiator may strain with mountain lifting or not, depends on the writer.

While we're on the subject, I still can't believe people reference the Infinite Book from Limbo feat and claim it demonstrates infinite might with a straight face. I mean, what the f*ck? This is from the previous issue and a much better gauge of his awesome strength:
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Strength/lifting/finalcrisisbeyond3d01a.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Strength/lifting/finalcrisisbeyond3d01b.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Strength/lifting/finalcrisisbeyond3d01c.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Strength/lifting/finalcrisisbeyond3d01d.jpg

But that's just me.

Lol...infinite weight. Lol.