Balancing the Force - Mortis Trilogy

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DARTH POWER
Was just watching the Mortis trilogy again in CW, and now I'm really confused about the whole Balance to the Force thing.

Lucas always said it was when there's no dark side. Whilst this trilogy suggested a balance between light and dark.

But isn't the new CW animation considered Official Lucas Canon??

Or have I just misunderstood those episodes?

I suppose the Force Wielder's definition of Balance could just be wrong. But I would have though such ancient beings would have a bit of knowledge/wisdom about such things..

Ordo
The episodes were [email protected] Thats all you need to know.

DARTH POWER
^ Lol Doesn't matter if the episodes were crap or not, what I'm discussing was the new take on the Prophecy it gave us, especially considering the new show is considered canon by Lucas.

(And I know you love the show really Ordo)

mig17
When I watch Star Wars (all the films), I am under the impression that Jedi think "balancing the force" is no dark side at all in the univers (or having dark side under control) and the dark side only wants to kill the light.
But in the end, what I think is in Lucas head is that balance in the force is to get ride of both dark and light who are extrem and to only keep grey where someone can choose his own way.

And it seems that in the Mortis trilogy, the message is the same because for the choosen one, bringing balance to Mortis was to destroy all the Force Wielder's in that world.

To finish, in my opinion, like the rest of second half of season 3, the Mortis episodes were pretty good and distracting. (unlike last season...)

DARTH POWER
^ Well the Father said Anakin was to keep balance between the light and dark side. That too much of either would be dangerous to the universe.

Up until now it was the Father who did that, but he wanted Anakin to take over from him in that job.

In the end both the son and daughter were destroyed anyway.

Whilst Lucas has said it was destroying the Sith and the dark side forever. So there's a contradiction there which I don't know what to make of.

The Mortis trilogy seems to be more in line with the EU.

Edit- Agree last season was much better than this one. Darth Maul was the highlight of this one, which we had to wait until the end for.

DARTH POWER
Hmm going by Qui-Gon's words to Anakin in the 3rd episode, and the opening statement in the first episode, it seems the chosen one was required to bring balance by facing his own demons first, before destroying the Sith.

Which is exactly what Vader did in the end.

Darth Luminous
Lucas always said it was when there's no dark side.

No, he has never said that. "No dark side" is hardly any kind of definition of balance. It's the opposite.

Ushgarak
As has been pointed out many times, actually that's 100% GL#'s position. He holds that balance is all Light and no Dark. If you disagree with his interpretation of Balance, that is fine, but Star Wars reflects his vision, not yours.

Tzeentch._
Ush is correct here; GL is a retard who doesn't know what the English definition of balance is. He explained his awkward interpretation of the word in one of the DVD interviews, iirc.

Ushgarak
It makes perfect sense in English from the point of view of his spiritual beliefs where he believes a force likes the Sith embodies the idea of parasitic imbalance- you can't have a balanced system with the force of imbalance in it, so it has to go.

The concept is fine- the trouble is that he made absolutely no attempt to explain it on-screen, so people by default will think it is literal "you must have as much good as evil" balance, which is pretty much the opposite of what he intended.

Nephthys
I believe its something like that the Force exists with the Lightside as the norm. It's how the Force is naturally, thus balanced. The Darkside is basically a cancer. It represents an imbalance in the Force with its very presence.

Ushgarak
Yes, the cancer thing is the parasitic nature he talked of, as opposed to the symbiosis of the Light Side (referred to by Obi-Wan in TPM, but not explored or defined in any way- he just says the Naboo and Gungans depend on each other but saying is not enough).

Nephthys
As you said, its a failing that he doesn't explain this. It seems to be a very eastern outlook, in a western series. You can't expect the audience to intuitively understand a concept like that. Westerners are stuck into the Christian mindset where evil and good exist in every person. Thats how most people see balance. The very names 'lightside and darkside' support this assumption. Lucas' concept is both counter-intuitive and obtuse.

Ushgarak
He also didn't explain what the Living Force was as opposed to the Cosmic Force, or what the Prophecy actually was, or what the deal with Sifo-Dyas was, or what was going on with Qui-Gon and the force ghost thing, and...

... GL has always been big on ideas but it went horribly wrong with actually putting them across. He explained the first two above in interview- put those explanations in the film!

DARTH POWER
Ush have you seen the Mortis Trilogy yet?

With this thread I was trying to see if anyone can reconcile Lucas's words with those 3 CW episodes.

Ushgarak
Not yet, no, but I am pretty sure the answer is that no, it can't be.

queeq
laughing out loud

atv2
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Hmm going by Qui-Gon's words to Anakin in the 3rd episode, and the opening statement in the first episode, it seems the chosen one was required to bring balance by facing his own demons first, before destroying the Sith.

Which is exactly what Vader did in the end.

That didn't happen in episode 3, his demons took over him. Episode 6 he dealt with himself and gave his life for his son destroying the emperor although he came back later. It gave some peace to the galaxy for a few years. The jedi order through Luke was able to be reestablished and produced one of the most powerful jedi around. This couldn't have happened without Anakin!

Darth Jello
Weird interpretation, but after watching that trilogy and the movies, could it be that the light side grows stale and complacent without challenges from the dark side which allows the dark side to creep in? Thus balance and renewal results not only from the light defeating the dark but also from having a dark to defeat in the first place?

I mean wasn't there some book or some quote that said that one of the reasons Anakin fell and the sith/empire took over was because the Jedi got so far up their own asses with orthodoxy, ritual, and strict adherence that couldn't effectively respond to modern challenges, to say nothing of a war on three fronts?

S_W_LeGenD
This is what I gather from Mortis:

- Son represents the nature of the Sith
- Daughter represents the nature of the Jedi
- Father represents the role of the Chosen One

- Son has long-lasting rivalry with the Daughter (Sith versus Jedi)

- When the Son attempts to kill the Father, he ends up hurting the Daughter instead; the daughter prevents this assassination attempt through self-sacrifice. (Jedi believe in self-sacrifice)

- The Father sets the stage for elimination of the Son afterwards through self-sacrifice. (Chosen One eliminates Sidious through self-sacrifice, restoring balance)

In the movies; balance was restored after elimination of Sith Lords or so the Jedi thought. The Mortis Episode is a reflection on Anakin's role as the Chosen One. Though the balance thing is admittedly confusing in its case.

I think that the Father's role of balance was similar to that of Revan; the latter Force-wielder managed to balance himself on the knife-edge of the philosophies behind both the dark side and the light side. Revan never hesitated to eliminate Sith Lords who schemed to destroy or conquer the Galaxy. However, Revan was also willing to work with those Sith Lords who were not a threat to the Galaxy. It is possible that Father's behaviour was a reflection on Revan. (Keeping in mind that Revan was regarded as a worthy candidate for this episode prior to its release)

Therefore, we can assume that balance can be restored through following ways:

1. By destroying the dangerous dark-siders
2. By ensuring peace between the light-siders and dark-siders in fair manner

Ushgarak
Originally posted by Darth Jello
I mean wasn't there some book or some quote that said that one of the reasons Anakin fell and the sith/empire took over was because the Jedi got so far up their own asses with orthodoxy, ritual, and strict adherence that couldn't effectively respond to modern challenges, to say nothing of a war on three fronts?

Nothing official like that, no. It's a popular fan-ish sort of belief based on a lazy rejection of authority and GL's philosophy.

Darth Luminous
As has been pointed out many times, actually that's 100% GL#'s position. He holds that balance is all Light and no Dark.

It may have been "pointed out many times" but it's still wrong. Lucas never said anything like that.

But if you claim that he did, what is the source? Where did he say it? Is there a link?

If you disagree with his interpretation of Balance, that is fine, but Star Wars reflects his vision, not yours.

Lucas' statements in interviews seem to describe the Force as two-sided in its natural state. This is supported by Mortis. What I am referring to here is Lucas' vision, not mine. This makes more sense than fans interpreting balance to mean "all of one thing and none of the other".

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Darth Luminous
It may have been "pointed out many times" but it's still wrong. Lucas never said anything like that.

But if you claim that he did, what is the source? Where did he say it? Is there a link?



Lucas' statements in interviews seem to describe the Force as two-sided in its natural state. This is supported by Mortis. What I am referring to here is Lucas' vision, not mine. This makes more sense than fans interpreting balance to mean "all of one thing and none of the other".


Before the Mortis episodes, Lucas did always claim restoring balance to the force was destroying the Sith and all evil and having the Light Side prevail.

That was stated in the making of ROTS as well as numerous other interviews.

Lucas is inconsistent in his statements. There's no getting around that.

Darth Luminous
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Before the Mortis episodes, Lucas did always claim restoring balance to the force was destroying the Sith and all evil and having the Light Side prevail.

Sometimes, like when he refers to Imperials as Nazis, it's unwise to take Lucas too literally. ROTS indicates only that balancing the Force involves destroying the Sith. "Getting rid of evil in the universe" should be understood to refer to the dominant evil represented by the Sith and the Empire. Not all evil. In the AOTC DVD commentary Lucas says that the Force goes out of balance because evil is taking over, not because of its mere existence. Do you think that in the aftermath of ROTJ there is no evil in the universe anywhere? That the surviving inhabitants of the galaxy somehow no longer possess the capacity for evil? The existence of at least some evil is an unavoidable consequence of free will. How could the very existence of evil be scrubbed from the cosmos, without some kind of universal mind control? We are given no reason to assume any such thing takes place.

And that's just in reference to one quote - which says nothing about "having the Light Side prevail". The Force in balance is not one side of itself, and Lucas never said that it was, anywhere. The very concept falls apart. As an energy field generated by all living things the Force should be both good and bad, "light" and "dark". Balance does not mean "all of one thing and none of the other", which would be the exact opposite of balance.

"I wanted to have this mythological footing because I was basing the films on the idea that the Force has two sides, the good side, the evil side, and they both need to be there."
- Lucas, quoted in the Los Angeles Times, January 20, 2002 ( before Mortis )

That was stated in the making of ROTS

What was stated? That balancing the Force requires destroying the Sith, something that is sufficiently evident from the film? Or something else? What is the exact quote? Does it say anything about the sides of the Force at all? Probably not.

as well as numerous other interviews.

Such as?

Lucas is inconsistent in his statements.

Yet people have attributed positions to him that he has not taken. "The Force in balance is the light side" is a position invented by fans, with Lucas' name falsely attached to it.

PTaylor
My take on these episodes is this is were Anikin fails to live up as the chosen one. So he was either 1 not the actual chosen one or 2 the prophesy is not absolute. He rejects his role as the chosen one by not staying. And everything that follows is a consequence of that decision.

I never understood the whole light side dark side thing anyways. To me it always seemed there should just be the force. Light or dark side should simply be about who wields that power and how they use it. Not like it is a coin where you have either light side (heads) or dark side (tails). Power is just power and it has no will. It is how you use it that makes it good or bad.

If the midi-chlorians wanted an end to the force being used for destructive purposes they could simply shut off access to whomever they wish. Or at least I would assume so. If they could impregnate a woman missing half the DNA required to do so it would seem a simple task to stop someone frome channeling some mystical cosmic energy through them.

Darth Luminous

Rockydonovang
to be fair per feloni, bendu has a slight preference for jedi but he's mostly above it
the force priestesses though do favor the jedi pretty cleary

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