The Void vs Superman

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Nihilist
Superman takes Thors place in Seige.

Who wins?

JakeTheBank
Ha ha, I remember when I made this thread right after Siege #4 came out. Butthurt was strong that day on all sides.

But really, if Superman replaced Thor in the actual event, the results would likely wind up the same. In a forum fight, Superman loses.

abhilegend
Void.

Delta1938
Originally posted by abhilegend
Void.

TRAITOR!!!!!!

abhilegend
Originally posted by Delta1938
TRAITOR!!!!!!
laughing out loud

Delta1938
Originally posted by abhilegend
laughing out loud mad

abhilegend
Originally posted by Delta1938
mad
Wut?

Odekahn
Supes

Delta1938
Originally posted by abhilegend
Wut?

I'm bored and sleep deprived.

the ninjak
Void.

zopzop
http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/2434/16413601219101sentrysup.jpg

All day!

PillarofOsiris
Superman.

Tony Stark
The VOID rips Superman in half just like he did to Ares

Delta1938
Originally posted by Tony Stark
The VOID rips Superman in half just like he did to Ares

I'm sorry, you're awake now Tony. Your special dream is over.

Slaanesh
Void

iceman24567
Originally posted by Tony Stark
The VOID rips Superman in half just like he did to Ares To my knowledge Superman is vastly more durable than Ares no expression

Nietzschean
Sentry begs Superman to kill him.
Superman angry raises his fist but hesitates b/c he isnt a killer.

the void takes control and stabs Superman in the chest ripping his heart out.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Nietzschean
Sentry begs Superman to kill him.
Superman angry raises his fist but hesitates b/c he isnt a killer.

the void takes control and stabs Superman in the chest ripping his heart out.
Emperor joker already did that, guess what happened?

Tony Stark
Originally posted by Delta1938
I'm sorry, you're awake now Tony. Your special dream is over.



wink

keiththegreat
Superman drops a hellicarrier on his head.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Delta1938
I'm sorry, you're awake now Tony. Your special dream is over. Do you think Superman wins here ?

carver9
This fight isn't even fair. You can add the rest of the JLA and the results would be the same. The next thread to come since I have put my two cents in this tread...Hulk vs Void. I have a feeling someone is about to do it.

tkitna
I think Superman does win since the implications of the battle takes place during Siege and since Bob weakened the Void there, he shall do the same here.

If the question was just a pure forum battle, you could add a couple more Supermen and it wouldnt matter as the Void would easily win.

quanchi112
Originally posted by tkitna
I think Superman does win since the implications of the battle takes place during Siege and since Bob weakened the Void there, he shall do the same here.

If the question was just a pure forum battle, you could add a couple more Supermen and it wouldnt matter as the Void would easily win. The Void wasn't just weakened from the onset of the battle it took a lot of attacks to draw him out. Superman can't weather the storm.

tkitna
Thor weathered it.

Delta1938
Originally posted by quanchi112
Do you think Superman wins here ?

Dunno really, but Superman sure as Hell ain't gettin' ripped in two.

carver9
Originally posted by Delta1938
Dunno really, but Superman sure as Hell ain't gettin' ripped in two.

I see a spleen on the battle field. Don't you?

Delta1938
Originally posted by carver9
I see a spleen on the battle field. Don't you?

I thought you hit Ignore on me?

quanchi112
Originally posted by tkitna
Thor weathered it. Thor had Loki's help, a norn stone amp, an entire team, etc. It wasn't just Thor vs. the Void.

tkitna
Originally posted by quanchi112
Thor had Loki's help, a norn stone amp, an entire team, etc. It wasn't just Thor vs. the Void.

Yes, but doesnt Superman have the same luxury in this scenario also? I thought we were just substituting Thor for Superman with all the same factors. If its just Superman fighting Siege Void, he dies.

thepersuader
Originally posted by Nihilist
Superman takes Thors place in Seige.

Who wins?

Void.

This is a little off topic but I have a question about supermans durability.
This is completely a "what if" situation. Lets say Superman is walking down a dark alley and the persuader jumps out of the shadows and swings his atomic axe full force at supermans neck. Lets say superman is amused by this masked villain and allows this to go down. Does the persuader have the necessary strength and more importantly can the atomic axe decapitate superman. The atomic axe is said to be able to cut through ANYTHING.

Bouboumaster
Silver Surfer would kill Void
Thor would kill Void (if he was serious about it)
Hulk would beat him
Superman would beat him too

Void was one of the worst character created in the recent years. He got his own wing in the LOLFAIL Character Hall Of Fame, alongside Onslaught

tkitna
Originally posted by Bouboumaster
Silver Surfer would kill Void
Thor would kill Void (if he was serious about it)
Hulk would beat him
Superman would beat him too


Sadly if the Void was serious, he would beat all of those characters. Probably at the same time.

Batman-Prime
Originally posted by Bouboumaster
Silver Surfer would kill Void
Thor would kill Void (if he was serious about it)
Hulk would beat him
Superman would beat him too

Void was one of the worst character created in the recent years. He got his own wing in the LOLFAIL Character Hall Of Fame, alongside Onslaught

thumb up

Replace Thor with any other powerful Char, like Supes, Surfer, GL, Hulk or WW and the result will be the same. They will deliver the killing blow.

carver9
WTF

JakeTheBank
The only thing worth debating really is whether or not Superman would grant Bob his wish in time. Superman has killed before, but is loathe to do so unless absolutely necessary. But really, if you replace Thor with him in the context of the Siege event, he does just as similar.

PillarofOsiris
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
The only thing worth debating really is whether or not Superman would grant Bob his wish in time. Superman has killed before, but is loathe to do so unless absolutely necessary. But really, if you replace Thor with him in the context of the Siege event, he does just as similar.

I think Superman would finish Siege a lot easier and faster than Thor did. (although I think Thor COULD HAVE also, had he actually used his powers somewhat intelligently).

JakeTheBank
I know some people (especially this one troll who comes around like clockwork, usually to hype up Superman 1 Million) try to use Thor being ambushed by the Dark Avengers as some kind of low feat, which is, frankly retarded.

PillarofOsiris
Well, I think based on his past showings they shouldn't have been able to put Thor down like that.

JakeTheBank
It's not one of his best showings, but considering what the U-Foes and the Dark Avengers have done before, spinning it as a means to lowball him is pretty ridiculous.

PillarofOsiris
At the very least they should have had to blast him a bunch more times. And when Ms. Marvel said "woof" it made me want to burn my copy of the comic. It was almost like the writer had a personal grudge against Thor.

JakeTheBank
Well, Bendis was on his Sentry/Dark Avengers kick at the time, and Bendis doesn't give a rat's ass about power level portrayals to begin with. All things considered, it was a good feat for Bendis-Thor that he managed to get up and fight Sentry to a standstill while injured prior to the Void manifesting himself.

Stoic
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
It's not one of his best showings, but considering what the U-Foes and the Dark Avengers have done before, spinning it as a means to lowball him is pretty ridiculous.


That's what I said. I mean I've seen Superman taken down by similar power, so .... Void wins this by the way. If he did not want to die, he would just tear Superman apart on the molecular level.

PillarofOsiris
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Well, Bendis was on his Sentry/Dark Avengers kick at the time, and Bendis doesn't give a rat's ass about power level portrayals to begin with. All things considered, it was a good feat for Bendis-Thor that he managed to get up and fight Sentry to a standstill while injured prior to the Void manifesting himself.

I think the whole thing was full of bad writing. Void being taken out by a Hellicarrier? And the Asgardians themselves should have been a much more important factor in the fight. I mean, tyr, Heimdell, those guys aren't as far below thor as you would think.

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by Stoic
That's what I said. I mean I've seen Superman taken down by similar power, so .... Void wins this by the way. If he did not want to die, he would just tear Superman apart on the molecular level.

Basically.

Like I said earlier, if this is basically swap out Thor for Superman in terms of the context and event of Siege, Superman "wins". If this is a forum battle devoid of plot devices and stuff, Void wins.

Of course, Void isn't ripping Superman apart like he did with Ares or a Loki who planned on dying.

Nihilist
People seem to forget Thor was down and out untill he got amped by the Norn stones. And Void destroyed Loki who was using the Norn stones to attack Void as he came at him.

PillarofOsiris
Originally posted by Nihilist
People seem to forget Thor was down and out untill he got amped by the Norn stones. And Void destroyed Loki who was using the Norn stones to attack Void as he came at him.

It's been a while since I read it, but wasn't Thor up BEFORE the norn stones came out? I thought he was just hiding out in the town recovering...that's when he fried Daken. I could be wrong though.

Nihilist
Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
It's been a while since I read it, but wasn't Thor up BEFORE the norn stones came out? I thought he was just hiding out in the town recovering...that's when he fried Daken. I could be wrong though. No Thor and all the Heroes were on the Floor rolling around in agony from the Voids "shadow tentacle attack"

PillarofOsiris
Originally posted by Nihilist
No Thor and all the Heroes were on the Floor rolling around in agony from the Voids "shadow tentacle attack"

Oh, I thought you were talking about after the U-Foes blasted him.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Delta1938
Dunno really, but Superman sure as Hell ain't gettin' ripped in two. I disagree.

Delta1938
Originally posted by quanchi112
I disagree.

It's a free country, Quanchi. You have the right to be wrong.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Delta1938
It's a free country, Quanchi. You have the right to be wrong. It's cool you don't know who the Void is but I forgive ya.

Delta1938
Originally posted by quanchi112
It's cool you don't know who the Void is but I forgive ya.

I know who he is. Ripping Ares in half doesn't mean he can do it to Superman.

And I guess I should return the forgiveness. Quanchi, I forgive you for being wrong.

Tony Stark
Originally posted by tkitna
Sadly if the Void was serious, he would beat all of those characters. Probably at the same time.


yes

quanchi112
Originally posted by Delta1938
I know who he is. Ripping Ares in half doesn't mean he can do it to Superman.

And I guess I should return the forgiveness. Quanchi, I forgive you for being wrong. I wasn't referring to when he did so to Ares I was referring to him doing so to Loki. Bye bye Superman.

Delta1938
Originally posted by quanchi112
I wasn't referring to when he did so to Ares I was referring to him doing so to Loki. Bye bye Superman.

So why again is Loki more durable than Superman, even if amped?

quanchi112
Originally posted by Delta1938
So why again is Loki more durable than Superman, even if amped? I don't see Superman being able to resist his matter manipulating powers. Loki's harder to kill than Superman imo.

Tony Stark
Originally posted by quanchi112
I don't see Superman being able to resist his matter manipulating powers. Loki's harder to kill than Superman imo.


yes

Delta1938
Originally posted by quanchi112
I don't see Superman being able to resist his matter manipulating powers. Loki's harder to kill than Superman imo.

Ahhhh, matter manipulation powers. Is that what he did to Loki? If not, then since you're such a fan of interviews, there's one where the writer of the Molecule Man instance states that Sentry doesn't have matter manipulation, that he's just crazy and thought he did. I'll try to find the link.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Delta1938
Ahhhh, matter manipulation powers. Is that what he did to Loki? If not, then since you're such a fan of interviews, there's one where the writer of the Molecule Man instance states that Sentry doesn't have matter manipulation, that he's just crazy and thought he did. I'll try to find the link. He said it could be and it couldn't be. I have seen the interview. What we see on panel outweighs a writer's vagueness in an interview. I love how certain things count and certain things don't.

Delta1938
Originally posted by quanchi112
He said it could be and it couldn't be. I have seen the interview. What we see on panel outweighs a writer's vagueness in an interview. I love how certain things count and certain things don't.

Yep, you do love how certain things count and certain things don't. It's exactly what you're doing right here. And often do.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Delta1938
Yep, you do love how certain things count and certain things don't. It's exactly what you're doing right here. And often do. What am I saying doesn't count ? I am saying it all counts and going by that Thor and Superman are comparable in terms of durability.

Delta1938
Originally posted by quanchi112
What am I saying doesn't count ? I am saying it all counts and going by that Thor and Superman are comparable in terms of durability.

I'm talking about how you're dismissing an interview when it doesn't help your case, and clinging to one when it does.

Can you say, "Hypocrite?" Here, I'll help. "Hip-Oh-Crit."

quanchi112
Originally posted by Delta1938
I'm talking about how you're dismissing an interview when it doesn't help your case, and clinging to one when it does.

Can you say, "Hypocrite?" Here, I'll help. "Hip-Oh-Crit." The interview doesn't help your case either. Bendis doesn't answer the question so we go by what we see on panel. MM was defeated by the Void. Pretty simple, guy.

JakeTheBank
Loki also planned to be killed by Void. That kind of context is important.

Tony Stark
Originally posted by quanchi112
He said it could be and it couldn't be. I have seen the interview. What we see on panel outweighs a writer's vagueness in an interview. I love how certain things count and certain things don't.


stick out tongue

It was pretty clear on panel that MM was being overpowered by Sentry at his own game... Pretty F'n impressive.

quanchi112
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Loki also planned to be killed by Void. That kind of context is important. Loki knew the Void had the power to easily do so. I don't see Superman displaying anywhere near this level of power.

-Pr-
Originally posted by quanchi112
He said it could be and it couldn't be. I have seen the interview. What we see on panel outweighs a writer's vagueness in an interview. I love how certain things count and certain things don't.

Pity you don't apply that attitude in general.

quanchi112
Originally posted by -Pr-
Pity you don't apply that attitude in general. My examples are of a writer taking a stance. Bendis played it safe by not really answering the question. The only way he said Superman beats Doomsday is if he throws his morals/upbringing out the window. That rarely if ever happens.

-Pr-
Originally posted by quanchi112
My examples are of a writer taking a stance. Bendis played it safe by not really answering the question. The only way he said Superman beats Doomsday is if he throws his morals/upbringing out the window. That rarely if ever happens.

What would Bendis know about Superman?

Deadline
I guess Superman wins if you mean the same series of events that happen to Thor happen to Superman.

quanchi112
Originally posted by -Pr-
What would Bendis know about Superman? No, I am saying when I use the Jurgens example about Doomsday he answered the question. In the bendis example he did no such thing.Originally posted by Deadline
I guess Superman wins if you mean the same series of events that happen to Thor happen to Superman. I don't think that is the purpose of the thread. I think he is taking Void's mindset during siege and pitting him against just Superman with no help.

-Pr-
Originally posted by quanchi112
No, I am saying when I use the Jurgens example about Doomsday he answered the question. In the bendis example he did no such thing. I don't think that is the purpose of the thread. I think he is taking Void's mindset during siege and pitting him against just Superman with no help.

It doesn't make a difference though. Writer intent can only be used to back up something on panel; not replace/contradict it.

deathlife
Void wins.

I mean..what's Superman going to do him one on one, punch him? hv him?

Deadline
Originally posted by quanchi112
I think he is taking Void's mindset during siege and pitting him against just Superman with no help.

hahaha Superman loses.

quanchi112
Originally posted by -Pr-
It doesn't make a difference though. Writer intent can only be used to back up something on panel; not replace/contradict it. His intent wasn't contradicted on panel. The reason Superman is at a disadvantage goes along the lines of his moral code/upbringing. It's always been a weakness for him. In OWAW Superman going all out he was matching Doomsday.

-Pr-
Originally posted by quanchi112
His intent wasn't contradicted on panel. The reason Superman is at a disadvantage goes along the lines of his moral code/upbringing. It's always been a weakness for him. In OWAW Superman going all out he was matching Doomsday.

That's not the instance I was referring to, even if I disagree.

quanchi112
Originally posted by -Pr-
That's not the instance I was referring to, even if I disagree. Are you referring to hp Superman's interactions with Doomsday ?

-Pr-
Originally posted by quanchi112
Are you referring to hp Superman's interactions with Doomsday ?

I was talking about writers in general.

quanchi112
Originally posted by -Pr-
I was talking about writers in general. I guess we disagree. I tend to just take writer's words on their own stories I wouldn't use jurgens opinion based off of how he thinks Thor/Superman would go down.

-Pr-
Originally posted by quanchi112
I guess we disagree. I tend to just take writer's words on their own stories I wouldn't use jurgens opinion based off of how he thinks Thor/Superman would go down.

You can use their take to support what happens on panel, because what happens on panel will always take priority.

quanchi112
Originally posted by -Pr-
You can use their take to support what happens on panel, because what happens on panel will always take priority. Superman was intimidated by Doomsday on panel in hp. That's why I take his comments seriously in this regard.

-Pr-
Originally posted by quanchi112
Superman was intimidated by Doomsday on panel in hp. That's why I take his comments seriously in this regard.

Superman's been intimidated before; it didn't stop him saving the day.

quanchi112
Originally posted by -Pr-
Superman's been intimidated before; it didn't stop him saving the day. But being scared to me shows he wasn't at his best which doesn't contradict Jurgens' statements.

carver9
I'm enjoying this...like when Quan and Pr debate against each other.

-Pr-
Originally posted by quanchi112
But being scared to me shows he wasn't at his best which doesn't contradict Jurgens' statements.

That's not exactly the strongest logic; sometimes fear can be a great motivator imo.

quanchi112
Originally posted by -Pr-
That's not exactly the strongest logic; sometimes fear can be a great motivator imo. Let me ask you this then. In the instance in hp did fear make him a better or weaker combatant in your opinion ? Was hp Superman at his best iyo ?

-Pr-
Originally posted by quanchi112
Let me ask you this then. In the instance in hp did fear make him a better or weaker combatant in your opinion ? Was hp Superman at his best iyo ?

Once he got over himself and got the amp, yes, i think he was at or close to his best, at least for the Superman at that time.

deathlife
Wow, Pr vs Quanchi...shit's getting real here.

Delta1938
Originally posted by quanchi112
The interview doesn't help your case either. Bendis doesn't answer the question so we go by what we see on panel. MM was defeated by the Void. Pretty simple, guy.

So, basically you're a hypocrite. Glad we got that cleared-up.

carver9
Originally posted by deathlife
Wow, Pr vs Quanchi...shit's getting real here.

laughing out loud

Estacado
Originally posted by deathlife
Wow, Pr vs Quanchi...shit's getting real here.
Pr should use "bfr" on quanchi FTW.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Delta1938
So, basically you're a hypocrite. Glad we got that cleared-up. He didn't say yes or no he gave a vague answer. That's completely different than answering a question. This shouldn't be hard to understand.Originally posted by -Pr-
Once he got over himself and got the amp, yes, i think he was at or close to his best, at least for the Superman at that time. I see Superman from OWAW fighting alongside Doomsday to be at his best.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Estacado
Pr should use "bfr" on quanchi FTW. You hate all the time. why not step up to the plate and actually try to debate.

Delta1938
Originally posted by quanchi112
He didn't say yes or no he gave a vague answer. That's completely different than answering a question. This shouldn't be hard to understand.

Paraphrasing his actual words, he said, "Sentry is a crazy drug addict and just thought he had matter manipulation." Unless you're talking about what he said after? Funny, he had said he couldn't see how it wasn't clear before bringing-up the drug addict thing.


Originally posted by quanchi112
I see Superman from OWAW fighting alongside Doomsday to be at his best.



Originally posted by -Pr-
Once he got over himself and got the amp, yes, i think he was at or close to his best, at least for the Superman at that time.

Pr said "--at least for the Superman at that time." H/P happened before the Mongul Junior training that was important to OWAW.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Delta1938
Paraphrasing his actual words, he said, "Sentry is a crazy drug addict and just thought he had matter manipulation." Unless you're talking about what he said after? Funny, he had said he couldn't see how it wasn't clear before bringing-up the drug addict thing.








Pr said "--at least for the Superman at that time." H/P happened before the Mongul Junior training that was important to OWAW. Post the link to the interview. He was vague on what actually happened. He didn't answer it either way so we go by what occurred on panel. Just because the Sentry is insane doesn't make the MM go away. The rest of the dark avengers weren't all insane. They're lunatics but still.

That's a good point so comparing that Superman to current Superman doesn't cut the mustard.

-Pr-
Originally posted by quanchi112
He didn't say yes or no he gave a vague answer. That's completely different than answering a question. This shouldn't be hard to understand. I see Superman from OWAW fighting alongside Doomsday to be at his best.

H/P Superman hadn't had a bunch of amps yet, so the point doesn't really carry over, when he had been significantly upgraded by the time OWAW came around.

Delta1938
Originally posted by quanchi112
Post the link to the interview. He was vague on what actually happened. He didn't answer it either way so we go by what occurred on panel.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=26287

"I see there is a lot of online speculation about that, and I thought it was pretty clear. I don't like to over analyze these things. I prefer the work to speak for itself, but I'll put two things out there.

"I think we've all met crazy people in our lives, and I think you learn pretty quickly that when you're dealing with a crazy person, you can't trust what they're saying to be true. Just because the Sentry/The Void announced that he had the power of the Molecule Man, it doesn't mean that he actually did. He just thought that he did. He was a crazy person and maybe a drug addict, as the character's creator, Paul Jenkins, put out there. So not everything he was saying wasn't necessarily true. Maybe it was. Maybe it wasn't. I know that's difficult for some people, because when they read a story, they don't want to feel like they're being f**ked with. That character, though, was not in control of himself. There wasn't one second throughout the run of "Dark Avengers" where he was in control of himself."

So, why would he bring-up he thought it was pretty clear, and continuously point-out Sentry was crazy, if he didn't intend that Sentry didn't actually have Molecule Man's powers?


Originally posted by quanchi112
Just because the Sentry is insane doesn't make the MM go away. The rest of the dark avengers weren't all insane. They're lunatics but still.

What does that have to do with anything? They weren't sure what was going on. It was Sentry who said he can control molecules.

Originally posted by quanchi112
That's a good point so comparing that Superman to current Superman doesn't cut the mustard.

Are you trying to counter or are you agreeing it wasn't good to bring-up Superman during OUR WORLDS AT WAR when Pr said he felt Superman did the best he could at the time?

quanchi112
Originally posted by Delta1938
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=26287

"I see there is a lot of online speculation about that, and I thought it was pretty clear. I don't like to over analyze these things. I prefer the work to speak for itself, but I'll put two things out there.



"I think we've all met crazy people in our lives, and I think you learn pretty quickly that when you're dealing with a crazy person, you can't trust what they're saying to be true. Just because the Sentry/The Void announced that he had the power of the Molecule Man, it doesn't mean that he actually did. He just thought that he did. He was a crazy person and maybe a drug addict, as the character's creator, Paul Jenkins, put out there. So not everything he was saying wasn't necessarily true. Maybe it was. Maybe it wasn't. I know that's difficult for some people, because when they read a story, they don't want to feel like they're being f**ked with. That character, though, was not in control of himself. There wasn't one second throughout the run of "Dark Avengers" where he was in control of himself."


So not everything he was saying wasn't necessarily true. Maybe it was. Maybe it wasn't.

Number two, yes, Bob realized that things had gone as far as they could possibly go. There was no other end for him and without his cooperation he doesn't go away.

The Sentry overpowered him and his answer was maybe he was or maybe he wasn't. That isn't a direct answer. What we see on panel trumps a vague nonanswer.



He overpowered the MM at his own game. MM wasn't experience his insanity he was overpowered. Bendis' answer is vague anyway.


I still disagree but I just gave an example of Superman at his best. I don't think fighting fear inside his own mind is at his best but since he wasn't trained yet by Mongul it's pretty easy to see a Superman from then on is far more formidable than the hp Superman.

quanchi112
Originally posted by -Pr-
H/P Superman hadn't had a bunch of amps yet, so the point doesn't really carry over, when he had been significantly upgraded by the time OWAW came around. I don't see self doubt and fear really bringing out the best in Superman.

-Pr-
Originally posted by quanchi112
I don't see self doubt and fear really bringing out the best in Superman.

Fear is what makes Superman his best half the time. And besides, as the arc went on his fear and doubt disappeared.

Though I don't know why you're changing the subject.

Delta1938
Originally posted by quanchi112
So not everything he was saying wasn't necessarily true. Maybe it was. Maybe it wasn't.

Number two, yes, Bob realized that things had gone as far as they could possibly go. There was no other end for him and without his cooperation he doesn't go away.

The Sentry overpowered him and his answer was maybe he was or maybe he wasn't. That isn't a direct answer. What we see on panel trumps a vague nonanswer.



He overpowered the MM at his own game. MM wasn't experience his insanity he was overpowered. Bendis' answer is vague anyway.

Or, it could've been, ya know, Sentry's telepathy? You're completely dismissing the writer making it clear Sentry's not to be trusted. Of course, this wouldn't be the first time you picked something that benefited you, but when an equivalent example was used against you, said that they can't do that. In other words, wouldn't be the first time you've shown to be a hypocrite, and I'm sure it won't be the last.


Originally posted by quanchi112
I still disagree but I just gave an example of Superman at his best. I don't think fighting fear inside his own mind is at his best but since he wasn't trained yet by Mongul it's pretty easy to see a Superman from then on is far more formidable than the hp Superman.

So, you're going to ignore when Superman said he was giving it everything he had and that the whole moral of the story was overcoming your fears?

quanchi112
Originally posted by Delta1938
Or, it could've been, ya know, Sentry's telepathy? You're completely dismissing the writer making it clear Sentry's not to be trusted. Of course, this wouldn't be the first time you picked something that benefited you, but when an equivalent example was used against you, said that they can't do that. In other words, wouldn't be the first time you've shown to be a hypocrite, and I'm sure it won't be the last.You are completely missing the point what happens on panel is to be trusted. He said it did or it didn't. His answer was vague he didn't say the Sentry is nuts that isn't what happened. He puposely left it vague so we go by on panel.




So, you're going to ignore when Superman said he was giving it everything he had and that the whole moral of the story was overcoming your fears? Superman did overcome his fear but it still plagued him in the fight. That's called self doubt. I don't think anyone experiencing that at the time is at their best.

Delta1938
Originally posted by quanchi112
You are completely missing the point what happens on panel is to be trusted. He said it did or it didn't. His answer was vague he didn't say the Sentry is nuts that isn't what happened. He puposely left it vague so we go by on panel.




So, you're going to ignore when Superman said he was giving it everything he had and that the whole moral of the story was overcoming your fears? Superman did overcome his fear but it still plagued him in the fight. That's called self doubt. I don't think anyone experiencing that at the time is at their best.

um Looks like his whole point WAS to make it clear that what we see wasn't to be trusted. And it's pretty funny that the interview you used for Doomsday contradicted what we see on panel, but are dismissing this interview.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Delta1938
Superman did overcome his fear but it still plagued him in the fight. That's called self doubt. I don't think anyone experiencing that at the time is at their best.

um Looks like his whole point WAS to make it clear that what we see wasn't to be trusted. And it's pretty funny that the interview you used for Doomsday contradicted what we see on panel, but are dismissing this interview. No, iti didn't contradict anything. Superman still brought his moral code to the fight he wasn't balls to the wall without it.

I am not dismissing anything he didn't give a conclusive answer. Jurgens did. There's a difference.

Delta1938
Originally posted by quanchi112
um Looks like his whole point WAS to make it clear that what we see wasn't to be trusted. And it's pretty funny that the interview you used for Doomsday contradicted what we see on panel, but are dismissing this interview. No, iti didn't contradict anything. Superman still brought his moral code to the fight he wasn't balls to the wall without it.

I am not dismissing anything he didn't give a conclusive answer. Jurgens did. There's a difference.

So you'll use a quote from an author when it contradicts what was seen, and say another example can't be used because it was "vague?"

quanchi112
Originally posted by Delta1938
No, iti didn't contradict anything. Superman still brought his moral code to the fight he wasn't balls to the wall without it.

I am not dismissing anything he didn't give a conclusive answer. Jurgens did. There's a difference.

So you'll use a quote from an author when it contradicts what was seen, and say another example can't be used because it was "vague?" That isn't a contradiction. He didn't answer the question. Jurgens was clear in his answer.

Delta1938
Originally posted by quanchi112
That isn't a contradiction. He didn't answer the question. Jurgens was clear in his answer.

But, what we saw didn't match-up with what he said.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Delta1938
But, what we saw didn't match-up with what he said. What did he say that contradicted what happened on panel.

Delta1938
Originally posted by quanchi112
What did he say that contradicted what happened on panel.

In your opinion. But of course you refused to answer if Superman's more powerful than the gravity from Entropy. Ignore that Doomsday died at the end, when, ya know, time and space it's self ceased to exist. Do you think Superman's power is greater than the gravity we see them hit with when they come to the end of time?

quanchi112
Originally posted by Delta1938
In your opinion. But of course you refused to answer if Superman's more powerful than the gravity from Entropy. Ignore that Doomsday died at the end, when, ya know, time and space it's self ceased to exist. Do you think Superman's power is greater than the gravity we see them hit with when they come to the end of time? Waverider aided him in surviving. Try and at least be objective for a moment. It would have killed him. Void only goes away with his own cooperation. That's what the writer said. That's also consistent with what happened on panel. smile

Delta1938
Originally posted by quanchi112
Waverider aided him in surviving. Try and at least be objective for a moment. It would have killed him.

Waverider was delaying space/time it's self ending. That's not what I'm talking about.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Void only goes away with his own cooperation. That's what the writer said. That's also consistent with what happened on panel. smile

Looked more like Bob's voice still getting through. Attacking doesn't look like cooperation to me.

But I just realized how completely off-topic you've gone from the original point. You asked me who I think wins, I hadn't come to a decision yet(still haven't) but said Superman doesn't get ripped in half like Ares does. You said you disagree. Then you bring-up Loki. Even if you're correct that Sentry does have these powers, and he can use them to kill Superman, it has nothing to do with how Ares died.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Delta1938
Waverider was delaying space/time it's self ending. That's not what I'm talking about.
Superman had aid I guess that doesn't count. Superman totally resisted entropy on his own, right ? laughing out loud
Bob wanting Thor to kill him and then changing intot he Void screaming kill me isn't cooperating ? He's actually telling him he wants to die and demands he complies.

I said he'd get ripped in half like Loki was. I always said so.

Blight
How could superman win this?

Delta1938
Originally posted by quanchi112
Superman had aid I guess that doesn't count. Superman totally resisted entropy on his own, right ? laughing out loud

Surviving entropy as a whole. Not the part I referred to. Fail, Quan, fail.


Originally posted by quanchi112
Bob wanting Thor to kill him and then changing intot he Void screaming kill me isn't cooperating ? He's actually telling him he wants to die and demands he complies.

He's also attacking. Looks to me like Bob is getting his message through while Void attempts to resist.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I said he'd get ripped in half like Loki was. I always said so.

Either you're lying to cover the fact that you've taken this off-topic from what I originally said, or you had a complete reading comprehension fail and should've brought that up in the first place when you said you disagree.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Delta1938
Surviving entropy as a whole. Not the part I referred to. Fail, Quan, fail.

It's irrelevant. The writer was clear while your example has no relevance to combat.

My original response always pertained to the Loki body rip not the Ares. Though from what I recall Bendis viewed ares the same as Thor so the difference probably isn't as far off according to the writer.

Delta1938
Originally posted by quanchi112
It's irrelevant. The writer was clear while your example has no relevance to combat.

No, it's not irrelevant. They both survived the gravitational forces. You're clinging to the part where Doomsday dies, when there's no universe left to survive in.

Originally posted by quanchi112
But he's still cooperating. He turned into the Void after Thor refused. His actions forced Thor into aiding him take his life.

So, attacking=cooperating?


Originally posted by quanchi112
My original response always pertained to the Loki body rip not the Ares. Though from what I recall Bendis viewed ares the same as Thor so the difference probably isn't as far off according to the writer.

It was quite clear in my initial post that Superman wasn't going to suffer the same thing Ares did. All you said is you disagree. If you honestly meant Loki, then you should've said it in the first place.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Delta1938
No, it's not irrelevant. They both survived the gravitational forces. You're clinging to the part where Doomsday dies, when there's no universe left to survive in.
For the time being yes. They weren't going to survive them for much longer as the scans clearly show.

Thor destroyed his body and he didn't come back. We've seen him come back from being completely destroyed. The writer stated he cooperated.



When you asked me I stated Loki. I never once said the Ares rip. I will let this go since you admit you were wrong.

Delta1938
Originally posted by quanchi112
For the time being yes. They weren't going to survive them for much longer as the scans clearly show.

Yes, because, ya know, space/time it's self was going to end. So, you think Superman is more powerful than what they endured?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Thor destroyed his body and he didn't come back. We've seen him come back from being completely destroyed. The writer stated he cooperated.

And fighting equals cooperating? Not to mention, if he can just come back, why hasn't he yet? And nice that you show your double standard in the same interview.



Originally posted by quanchi112
When you asked me I stated Loki. I never once said the Ares rip.

It was incredibly clear I was talking about Ares. You simply said you disagree. If you were talking about Loki the entire time, you should've brought it up in the first place. I think you're just covering your mistake.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I will let this go since you admit you were wrong.

I notice you like to claim victory when you haven't actually won anything. I'm going to go through SIEGE, so I'll make my decision.

kgkg
Originally posted by Blight
How could superman win this? Same way Thor did. If Bob doesn't want to lose he won't.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Delta1938
Yes, because, ya know, space/time it's self was going to end. So, you think Superman is more powerful than what they endured?
No, he isn't more powerful than what he endured. I can hold up a 50 pound dumbbell for only so long and eventually I will give in and let it drop. Superman could last for a little while that's it.

He doesn't want to come back. Obviously. The guy wanted to die. You want to dismiss what happened on panel without the writer contradicting himself.




When you asked I did say I referred to Loki. I didn't make a mistake and never said due to the Ares example. There is more than one way to tear someone in half. In the same arc the Loki attack seemed far more potent.

Delta1938
Originally posted by quanchi112
No, he isn't more powerful than what he endured. I can hold up a 50 pound dumbbell for only so long and eventually I will give in and let it drop. Superman could last for a little while that's it.

So you finally admit that Superman isn't more powerful than what killed Doomsday. Too bad your argument to try and counter that the writer's statement did indeed contradict what we see on panel doesn't hold water.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He doesn't want to come back. Obviously. The guy wanted to die. You want to dismiss what happened on panel without the writer contradicting himself.

It is pretty contradictory to say he was cooperating but have him attack.


Originally posted by quanchi112
When you asked I did say I referred to Loki. I didn't make a mistake and never said due to the Ares example. There is more than one way to tear someone in half. In the same arc the Loki attack seemed far more potent.

So you completely misunderstood what I meant? It was pretty clear I was talking about Ares. So, which is it? You're covering your mistake, or just misunderstood me?

quanchi112
Originally posted by Delta1938
So you finally admit that Superman isn't more powerful than what killed Doomsday. Too bad your argument to try and counter that the writer's statement did indeed contradict what we see on panel doesn't hold water.
My argument was never that Superman's power was more than what killed Doomsday. My argument is that less power can kill Doomsday. Superman still had the power minus his moral code to achieve the task according to Jurgens.

He cooperated by staying dead. That's the whole cooperating part. My word.



It was pretty clear I referred to the manner in which he tore Loki apart. It all happened in the same arc, teargas.

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