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Okay, so since my Trinity vs. Big Three BZ idea didn't go over as well as expected (ie. it tanked ), I'm hoping that this one garners a bit more attention.

http://net.onextrapixel.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/Justice-League-vs-Avengers.jpg

JLA versus Avengers: Battlezone Challenge
(Work in Progress)

Essentially, this will expand upon some of the ideas I had regarding my original one, but since it opens up the possibilities of repped characters beyond Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman versus Captain America, Iron Man, and Thor and allows some others, this should get more people involved. Ground rules are as follows, but not limited to:

-Characters drafted for the Avengers must be or have been recognized members of the Avengers franchise. New Avengers, Mighty Avengers, Dark Avengers, West Coast Avengers, Young Avengers, etc; so long as they were official members of one of the many iterations of Earth's Mightiest Heroes, they're fair game. Characters and feats, however, must come from the 616 reality of Marvel Earth. No alternate reality/timeline characters allowed.

-Likewise, characters for the Justice League must have been recognized members of the Justice League franchise, whether they were in the Justice League of America, JLI, Justice League Detroit (looking at you Vibe), Justice League Europe, etc. Characters and feats must come from the New Earth canon of DC.

-Characters will be divided into tiers, loosely based off of the official unofficial KMC style of tiers I'm sure most of you are familiar with. The tiers are as follows:

Street Level/Low Meta: Batman, Captain America, Green Arrow, Hawkeye, Hawkman, Wolverine, etc.
Mid/High Meta: Aquaman, Iron Man, Vixen, Scarlet Witch (Classic), Red Tornado, Vision, etc.
Herald: Superman, Thor, Orion, Hulk, Wonder Woman, Sentry (non-Void), etc.

Opinions on power levels may be subjective and differ for participants, leaving room for debate on whether or not a character "fits" on a tier they're being drafted for. In such occasions, I'll have the final say, but a open line of dialogue is encouraged in these cases if said draft pick isn't quite kosher. The absolute cap on default power levels concerning the Herald tier is High Herald. Anyone decidedly more formidable/powerful than Superman or Thor on the average is by, default, illegible for drafting, regardless of their membership status.

-Each team will have an equal, though yet to be determined number of characters representing them. This number will be decided upon once a fairly accurate number of wouldbe participants. Characters may be "shared" between debaters in order to split workload and also take into consideration for those who have busy school or work schedules.

-Prep time rules will be elaborated on at a further date.

-Other crap I'll think of will likewise be elaborated on at a further date.

There are about a dozen people i'd be comfortable repping.

Hey, can I join the party?

@Pr: Awesome

@abhilegend: Yeah, no problem.

I remember mentioning a battlezone just like this.

How many Debater's per team ? Does one team post first then the other? Or will there be individual debates. This could be fun if we can get a lot of people involved , say 12-14.

Ideally, I'd like to have the teams be six characters vs. six characters:

-Two Street/Low Metas
-Two Mid/High Metas
-Two Heralds

As far as debaters themselves go, if this were to be three vs. three, than obviously, each debater would be responsible for two characters. The more people that are interested, however, the more flexible I could be. I could wind up having debates that are Mixed Tier (involving all three tiers) or doing Single Tier and having more room for debates. It all depends on who shows interest and how many people.

You know I think I want to give this a try

Great Lakes Avengers count?

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Great Lakes Avengers count?

Yep.

Of course, Squirrel Girl would be beyond the power cap. biscuits

Doorman/Deathurge then

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Doorman/Deathurge then

I see what you did there.

More rules and crap:

-Each team will be allotted no more than fifteen (15) minutes of prep time. Prep time may be used to coordinate strategy between the characters, gather gear and resources, power up, and other activities. Prep-time cannot interfere with the opposing team, nor may it be used to spy on them or anything like that. No time travel shenanigans, either. Prep-Time will begin at an agreed upon "base" for each team, but can move to other locations within their means to travel to within reason.

Example: Team Avengers decides to begin their prep-time in Stark Tower. After doing what they need to do there, they transport to Asgard for another errand run. Conversely, Team JLA begins prep-time in the Watchtower, and later transports to the Bat Cave.

Provided you can prove within reason that you can get to other locales and do what you need to do within 15 minutes, you can go there.

Do Pre-Crisis characters count? For example would Kent Nelson count?

say "no", jake

Fair amount of pressure to make a strong character pick, being on a team with such open rosters for choices and no real competition for picks.

There should be like team captains or something.

What about outside amping for prep, would that count (Sundip, Belt of strength)?

Originally posted by carver9
What about outside amping for prep, would that count (Sundip, Belt of strength)? Are you going to participate ?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Are you going to participate ?

I would like to. I would represent Hulk of coarse and Thor as well.

Originally posted by carver9
I would like to. I would represent Hulk of coarse and Thor as well. Of coarse.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Of coarse.

Why did you bold "coarse"?

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Do Pre-Crisis characters count? For example would Kent Nelson count?

No.

Originally posted by Existere
Fair amount of pressure to make a strong character pick, being on a team with such open rosters for choices and no real competition for picks.

There should be like team captains or something.

I'd be open to this, but it would have to be something agreed upon by everyone else. Teamwork will be essential as you'll want to draft picks that complement each other.

Originally posted by carver9
What about outside amping for prep, would that count (Sundip, Belt of strength)?

Any power ups made can't amp a character more than one tier higher than their default one.

Example: Captain America couldn't be overall amped to anything higher than Mid/High Meta as he'd start off in the Street Level/Low Meta tier as default. Superman couldn't be amped any higher than Trans Tier (low end) as he is traditionally High Herald.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I'd be open to this, but it would have to be something agreed upon by everyone else. Teamwork will be essential as you'll want to draft picks that complement each other.



Any power ups made can't amp a character more than one tier higher than their default one.

Example: Captain America couldn't be overall amped to anything higher than Mid/High Meta as he'd start off in the Street Level/Low Meta tier as default. Superman couldn't be amped any higher than Trans Tier (low end) as he is traditionally High Herald.

Ok, so that would exclude Sun amping and Sun dips since we really don't have a quantifiable way of judging where this puts Superman at tier wise? Or would we have to guess?

As long as I don't have to rep Superman.

How restrictive are you with versions of characters? Say I wanted to use Aquaman, would I have to choose either pre or post reboot?

Originally posted by carver9
Ok, so that would exclude Sun amping and Sun dips since we really don't have a quantifiable way of judging where this puts Superman at tier wise? Or would we have to guess?

If you're asking specifically where does OWAW Superman stand in an attempt to replicate that, I'm going to go ahead and say that he'd be above the low end of Trans Tier. If someone wants to argue it, we'll wait for the actual pick. Or until I make a discussion thread.

Originally posted by -Pr-
As long as I don't have to rep Superman.

How restrictive are you with versions of characters? Say I wanted to use Aquaman, would I have to choose either pre or post reboot?

DC is limited to New Earth, Pre-Flashpoint canon. So Brightest Day would be around the cut off date if that helps.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
If you're asking specifically where does OWAW Superman stand in an attempt to replicate that, I'm going to go ahead and say that he'd be above the low end of Trans Tier. If someone wants to argue it, we'll wait for the actual pick. Or until I make a discussion thread.



DC is limited to New Earth, Pre-Flashpoint canon. So Brightest Day would be around the cut off date if that helps.

It does, thanks.

I don't usually have time for these things, but I'll make the time if this thing is for real.

I can rep any character....

I would like to rep hal or Superman.

I'm going to be holding off on drafting characters just yet; I want to make sure we have a good number of people ready to participate. But what I can do is begin signing up people for either the JLA or Avengers. Just let me know which team you'd like to represent and I'll file you under that.

Once we have an even number of people (or close to even as possible), I'll set a date for drafting characters for each tier.

Ideally drafting should be a team decision imo; six people should coordinate their picks to make the most effective team possible rather than all just picking their favourites, I think.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Ideally drafting should be a team decision imo; six people should coordinate their picks to make the most effective team possible rather than all just picking their favourites, I think.

Very true.

If people want to pick their favorite characters to rep, they can, but team effectiveness will go a long way toward actually winning.

This would be one giant battlezone, correct? Not multiple battles or a long tournament?

Originally posted by Blair Wind
This would be one giant battlezone, correct? Not multiple battles or a long tournament?

Yep, the former.

This is going to be epic.

Originally posted by Odekahn
This is going to be epic. It it ever happens yes it will be. I personally don't think it will, sadly.

Originally posted by quanchi112
It it ever happens yes it will be. I personally don't think it will, sadly.

Why not?

Originally posted by Odekahn
Why not? The other idea tanked after multiple people expressed interest. It's hard for just two people to have a battlezone with real life constraints let alone 5 or 6.

Originally posted by quanchi112
The other idea tanked after multiple people expressed interest. It's hard for just two people to have a battlezone with real life constraints let alone 5 or 6.

Is there a time constraint on how quick a reply must be made? i thought it might be a problem due to finding enough people. Personally, I believe DC would win because they are simply more powerful imo. But I love both companies and wouldn't hesitate to play devil's advocate and join the Marvel side if there's participation issues.

Originally posted by Odekahn
Is there a time constraint on how quick a reply must be made? i thought it might be a problem due to finding enough people. Personally, I believe DC would win because they are simply more powerful imo. But I love both companies and wouldn't hesitate to play devil's advocate and join the Marvel side if there's participation issues.

Very debatable, especially when you have people like Sentry, Thor, Hulk, even Ironman, Namor, Wonderman, and the list goes on. The Avengers is very powerful and arguments could be made both ways. I think Surfer even worked on the Avengers before. Jake, are you allowing bfr?

And can Hulk go WB?

Originally posted by carver9
And can Hulk go WB?

Pretty sure he already vetoed that.

Originally posted by carver9
Very debatable, especially when you have people like Sentry, Thor, Hulk, even Ironman, Namor, Wonderman, and the list goes on. The Avengers is very powerful and arguments could be made both ways. I think Surfer even worked on the Avengers before. Jake, are you allowing bfr?

No BFR. In order to win, the opposing team must be KOed or incapacitated in such a way they cannot fight back.

Originally posted by carver9
And can Hulk go WB?

No.

Originally posted by Odekahn
Is there a time constraint on how quick a reply must be made? i thought it might be a problem due to finding enough people. Personally, I believe DC would win because they are simply more powerful imo. But I love both companies and wouldn't hesitate to play devil's advocate and join the Marvel side if there's participation issues. Depends on the lineups or if it's an all time lineup which side is more powerful. I have no idea about the specifics. Jake is your man to go to there.

Originally posted by Odekahn
Is there a time constraint on how quick a reply must be made? i thought it might be a problem due to finding enough people. Personally, I believe DC would win because they are simply more powerful imo. But I love both companies and wouldn't hesitate to play devil's advocate and join the Marvel side if there's participation issues.

Well, we need to get people interested and signed up first before we can discuss time limits. But right now, I'm inclined to be lax on limits if only so I can accommodate for people being busy with whatever they have going on.

Considering all the ardent supporters for DC and Marvel, I feel this would be the perfect place to put up or shut up and I really hope people are willing to do that.

Hmm.

I may do this. Not sure which side I want to go on though. I'm a much bigger DC (and JLA) fan, but I feel like I could do some cool things with the Avengers team.

No. No loopholes for you.

Originally posted by -Pr-
No. No loopholes for you.

But I've already thought of 5 strategies for both the JLA side and the Avengers side each which takes into account all possible combination of teams, each with 3 contingency plans deep.

Originally posted by Blair Wind
But I've already thought of 5 strategies for both the JLA side and the Avengers side each which takes into account all possible combination of teams, each with 3 contingency plans deep.

LIES!

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Well, we need to get people interested and signed up first before we can discuss time limits. But right now, I'm inclined to be lax on limits if only so I can accommodate for people being busy with whatever they have going on.

Considering all the ardent supporters for DC and Marvel, I feel this would be the perfect place to put up or shut up and I really hope people are willing to do that.

I'm for sure interested! But It'll be my first time (I'm sure I'll have a lot of questions on how to do this) so I'm not sure if anyone would want a noob on their team, lol. But I'll volunteer for which ever side needs an extra person. I love DC and Marvel.

P.S. Yes, carver, it's debatable, but isn't that what we're here for?

Originally posted by carver9
Very debatable, especially when you have people like Sentry, Thor, Hulk, even Ironman, Namor, Wonderman, and the list goes on. The Avengers is very powerful and arguments could be made both ways. I think Surfer even worked on the Avengers before. Jake, are you allowing bfr?

lol Wonderman.

Jake might I suggest a certain debate by say mid april for teams to be decided and for the draft or whatever to begin. This way people have to commit or this falls by the wayside. Nothing worse than thinking it could happen to have 2 months pass and for it to die a slow death.

I know a way that it for sure won't happen... if we don't try at all.

Let's do it!!!

Originally posted by -Pr-
lol Wonderman.

Uuummm, what's wrong with Wonderman?

Originally posted by carver9
Uuummm, what's wrong with Wonderman?

You mentioning him in the same breath as Thor and Hulk.

Originally posted by -Pr-
You mentioning him in the same breath as Thor and Hulk.

Not the same breath, he is a top tier imo though. I'm referring to Ionic...Wonderman in general is a beast.

Originally posted by carver9
Not the same breath, he is a top tier imo though. I'm referring to Ionic...Wonderman in general is a beast.

He's all right, but he's not exactly the big gun on the team. He's like... A smaller, but still not needing to overcompensate, gun.

I don't see how you think he's a top tier. He's a good notch below the likes of Thor and Hulk.

Originally posted by -Pr-
He's all right, but he's not exactly the big gun on the team. He's like... A smaller, but still not needing to overcompensate, gun.

I don't see how you think he's a top tier. He's a good notch below the likes of Thor and Hulk.

He is a top gun and is one of the people the Avengers rely on when handling threats (if Thor isn't there).

You don't think Ionic Wonderman is top tier physically?

Originally posted by carver9
He is a top gun and is one of the people the Avengers rely on when handling threats (if Thor isn't there).

You don't think Ionic Wonderman is top tier physically?

I don't agree.

Ionic is different; I'd give him more respect. Standard Simon though? Not really.

Originally posted by carver9
Not the same breath, he is a top tier imo though. I'm referring to Ionic...Wonderman in general is a beast.

I'd rather have Ironman and his bag of tricks any day.

IMO, if I were running this tourny. I would pick out 2 team captains 1 per team and have them try and recruit their team mates. I would pick out captains by seeing who's most interested in this thing.

For example :

Avengers captain : Blair

JLA's captain : pr

Once the team's are in place they can discuss what character's work best together.

Avengers:
-jalek moye
-psycho gundam (tentatively)

JLA:
-abhilegend
--Pr-

Judges:
-JaketheBank

Brief recap of everyone's who's officially signed up thus far (or made interest). If you want to officially or tentatively sign up, please go here: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f105/t563254.html

I thought more people were interested then this

It's the case with tournaments. Lots of talk, little action

I just remembered that we almost had a battle-zone like this (KMC Marvel vs KMC DC). I actually think that focusing on specific characters (Avengers vs JLA) makes it easier to organize. The problem I see is that less posters are here on a consistent basis.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=511193

So, who want's me on their team ? I have unlimited scans.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Avengers:
-jalek moye
-psycho gundam (tentatively)

JLA:
-abhilegend
--Pr-

Judges:
-JaketheBank

Brief recap of everyone's who's officially signed up thus far (or made interest). If you want to officially or tentatively sign up, please go here: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f105/t563254.html

I thought I was a judge too

Originally posted by Endless Mike
I thought I was a judge too You've been cut.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
I thought I was a judge too

Ooops!

Yeah, I got you down as a Judge. My bad lol

So when are we starting this?

Originally posted by carver9
So when are we starting this?

What do you mean "we"?

Originally posted by -Pr-
What do you mean "we"?

We as in us. Im ready to do this. I have my Hulk scans ready.

Originally posted by carver9
We as in us. Im ready to do this. I have my Hulk scans ready. Step into the portal, Carv.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t563390.html

Originally posted by carver9
We as in us. Im ready to do this. I have my Hulk scans ready.

I fear for your safety in this arena.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I fear for your safety in this arena.
As do I.
fear

Originally posted by carver9
So when are we starting this?

Have you officially signed up for this in the appropriate thread?

Registration will be closed the 21st of April. The actual BZ will commence shortly after that, no more than a couple of days.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
No.

I'm revising my stance on WBH after some heavy thought. I'd like input one way or the other concerning my decision, so long as it's pretty civil and constructive, which given the people involved so far, I'm confident we can do. Hulk's power level, by nature of his character, is variable, with most "Savage" incarnations being looked at as a definite herald class character when it comes to physical might. Given that's all he has, I don't think I can ban WBH outright, especially when I already stated that so long said amp doesn't go beyond a single level "bump" from their original starting point in power, it's good to go. Personally, I don't think WBH is above Trans (maybe just in strength/durability) and considering the strong arguments you can make for High Heralds beating WBH or giving him a good fight, it would be unfair to handicap Hulk, especially when with the rules you could in theory amp any number of characters I could name to levels that would be more formidable than WBH and still be within the rules.

I'm certain this may raise specific questions regarding scenarios involving potential character draft picks, so, please, feel free to PM me if you have any questions concerning power levels or rules in general.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I fear for your safety in this arena.

Lol...no one here is ready for me.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol...no one here is ready for me.

i think it's more a case of being unwilling to put up with you.

Originally posted by -Pr-
i think it's more a case of being unwilling to put up with you.

Lol...that's the easy part.

Sorry, didnt see entry thread post.