Avengers Vs JLA (No Powers)

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Prep-Man
This is just a street brawl. no power, ring, or super powers of of any kind.

Tony Stark
Thor
Bruce Banner
Namor

vs

Hal Jordan
Superman
Diana
Aquaman

JakeTheBank
Bruce Banner? Really? C'mon.

carver9
Lol

tkitna
Doesnt Tony have a bad ticker too?

Endless Mike
No Batman?

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by tkitna
Doesnt Tony have a bad ticker too?

His heart condition has been corrected a while ago.

Odekahn
Marvel stomps

Batman-Prime
Originally posted by Prep-Man
This is just a street brawl. no power, ring, or super powers of of any kind.

Tony Stark
Thor
Bruce Banner
Namor

vs

Hal Jordan
Superman
Diana
Aquaman

Hal Jordan was in the military (iow he is a Soldier), Superman is a skilled Fighter trained by Batman and others, Diana is one of the best fighters on the DC Planet, Aquaman is also an skilled Warrior. Tony Stark is rich, Thor is a skilled Warrior, Bruce Banner is an scientist, Namor is an skilled Warrior too.

I don't see Marvel winning, honestly.

Q99
Yea, DC wins. Banner can in no-way stand up to any of the DC ones, then it's flat 4-on-3.

tkitna
Diana's a woman so Marvel surely wins.

Prep-Man
Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Hal Jordan was in the military (iow he is a Soldier), Superman is a skilled Fighter trained by Batman and others, Diana is one of the best fighters on the DC Planet, Aquaman is also an skilled Warrior. Tony Stark is rich, Thor is a skilled Warrior, Bruce Banner is an scientist, Namor is an skilled Warrior too.

I don't see Marvel winning, honestly.

I think Hal is a more impressive fighter than Clark. Right?

Odekahn
I might have been a little hasty with the "stomps" comment, but I still think Marvel wins. If Thor fights WW with no powers he has the strength advantage, and I think he'll win. Banner is a non factor. Hal has been shown beating up 5 guys at once so he could be a problem... I think Namor can take Aquafail. And Tony and Superman seem about equal to me. Hmm... I don't know. It's actually a lot closer than I thought. Put someone worthy in there instead of banner, lol.

Prep-Man
There is NO POWERS!

Batman-Prime
Clark knows pressure points and has good fighting skills, he is far above Tony. Banner is a nonfactor. And WW might be weaker then Thor (without powers) but she is more skilled.

Odekahn
Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Clark knows pressure points and has good fighting skills, he is far above Tony. Banner is a nonfactor. And WW might be weaker then Thor (without powers) but she is more skilled.

That's debatable. I would say they are pretty close in combat skill (WW and Thor).

Batman-Prime
Originally posted by Odekahn
That's debatable. I would say they are pretty close in combat skill (WW and Thor).

I would say that Aquaman is as skilled as Thor in h2h. Without powers I would even give the nod to Aquaman.

-Pr-
Originally posted by Prep-Man
I think Hal is a more impressive fighter than Clark. Right?

No, imo.

Bouboumaster
Marvel wins, because Thor is a monster of a man (6'6", above 300 pounds, if I remember correctly) of rock solid muscle. What Banner don't have, Thor overcompensate for it.

abhilegend
Superman is a 6'3", 250 pounds (guesstimation) with knowledge of pressure points who has taken down a horde of parademons while depowered, dodged gunfire, beat a martial artist (kobra), used flips and back-flips while depowered, trained by batman rigourously for several months to become a street level hero (superman/batman annual 2) and finally has fought a war in asgard for a thousand year straight. Pretty good, huh?

Blight
Thor at 600 lbs without superstrength, hahahahaha! How is that dude gonna move stick out tongue

I think DC wins. Aquaman's strength comes from being Underwater, to my knowledge. Is that the same as Namor? Even sans Aquaman's strength I think he's more used to maneuvering with Less strength than Namor, so he wins that. Clark has that whole Kryptonian martial art in his head (I forget what it's called) so he would be extremely hard to anticipate since no one would recognize his fighting style. Wonderwoman and Thor are around Equal. Hal Jordan Mops the floor, probably one punch, with Banner and moves on to help Wonderwoman.

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by abhilegend
finally has fought a war in asgard for a thousand year straight.

A shitty Asgard.

http://www.starless.dk/forum/images/smilies/troll.gif

JayDaDon
Thor is skilled enough to contend with Diana and big enough to just manhandle her. Clark with his pressure point attacks would be the only threat to Thor because of their comparable sizes.

Silent Master
Originally posted by Blight
Thor at 600 lbs without superstrength, hahahahaha! How is that dude gonna move stick out tongue

He'd have the strength of someone his size and build, just like how guys like the Kingpin can move well enough to still hit people like Daredevil.

Blight
Originally posted by Silent Master
He'd have the strength of someone his size and build, just like how guys like the Kingpin can move well enough to still hit people like Daredevil. So in essence, he'd have Kingpin's powers...

Stoic
Thor is 6'6" 670 LBS, and would likely be the most dominant combatant on the field.

Silent Master
Originally posted by Blight
So in essence, he'd have Kingpin's powers...

Technically Kingpin doesn't have any powers, In DC he'd probably be considered a ringer.

Stoic
^ Without powers, all of the above would be considered ringers.

JakeTheBank
I'm still laughing at Banner being placed here.

AsbestosFlaygon
LOL poor Banner.

It would be darn awful if he was the last person gangbanged by the DC team.

vince_slice
Banner would be more useful if Thor used him like a baseball bat than him actually fighting.

Stoic
^ Thor would have his slack.

CosmicComet
Stark with no suit? Lol.

Bruce Banner? Lol.

Thor with no powers? Lol. He'd essentially be 6'7" 600 lb+ human. He would be slow as hell without Asgardian strength backing his weight. He'd be slower than any body builder alive, as there is not a 6'7" body builder with his build out there that weighs over 600 lbs.

Namor's the only credible threat there.



DC stomps.


Funny, depowered Superman could blitz depowered Thor, just as he could if both are at normal levels.

AsbestosFlaygon
LOL I still can't stop lmao!

Imagine Banner fending for dear life, while his opponent closes in on him. LOL!

JakeTheBank
Thor's been depowered before and his weight never hindered him. So either his body functionally operates as normal in terms to the 3x dense muscle/bone structure of Asgardians, or he gets reduced to something like 250 pounds.

Either way, he wouldn't be immobile.

CosmicComet
Yes Thor's been depowered before, and somehow he still keeps up with Steve while depowered. Yet somehow, when he actually has his strength, he's still somehow not any faster than Steve or Wolverine. :/

Maybe he does get reduced to 250 lbs and thus he can still move well in such an instance like that...but are you telling me his strength only triples or so to match his Asgardian weight when he's not on Cap's level?

Writers are stupid, basically.

I'm just thinking about this realistically, using everyone's skills and build/weight.

Silent Master
You should be looking at it by comic logic and according to the comics Thor's weight doesn't slow him down when depowered.

PillarofOsiris
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Bruce Banner? Really? C'mon.

Carver: "Bruce Banner solos"

comicfan11
Tony Stark
Thor
Bruce Banner
Namor

vs

Hal Jordan
Superman
Diana
Aquaman


I think Hal will take Tony.
Even though Stark received some actual training late in his history, Hal is a trained intergalactic (or something like that) officer and an accomplished boxer in good physical shape.

I think Thor will take Clark, although Clark would put up some fight. They are both huge and propably close in strength but Thor is a freaking warrior God with centuries of experience.

Diana would need about 10 seconds to demolish Bruce.

I give the nod to Aquaman. Both are great warriors but AQ always seems more impressive based on skill (especialy some of his agility related moves border on eastern martial arts style) and is used to fighting tougher oponents (with great sucess). Plus he is more level headed and strategic and has the advantage of being on panel trained with Batman (having him on his grip) among other things. In adition AQ is also probaly the best and most well known trident wielder in comicdom , which further goes to prove his warrior training.

So I'm thinking DC takes the win rather easily since Diana would dispose of Bruce quickly and proceed to assist her teamates for an easy win.

vince_slice
It's not unrealistic to see Thor moving around at that weight. He'd be roughly the same size as a large male Gorilla. They walk around at roughly 500lbs of weight, yet they're still quite agile and powerful. They also share many of our physical characteristics as humans (which is not surprising because they're one of our closest phylogenetic cousins).

Basically what I'm saying is fighting Thor would be similar to fighting an angry male Gorilla who's some how skilled at melee. Even our biggest and strongest humans wouldn't want any of that.

Uriel005
Originally posted by vince_slice
It's not unrealistic to see Thor moving around at that weight. He'd be roughly the same size as a large male Gorilla. They walk around at roughly 500lbs of weight, yet they're still quite agile and powerful. They also share many of our physical characteristics as humans (which is not surprising because they're one of our closest phylogenetic cousins).

Basically what I'm saying is fighting Thor would be similar to fighting an angry male Gorilla who's some how skilled at melee. Even our biggest and strongest humans wouldn't want any of that. Dunno I think you're underestimating Clark's martial arts skills. Also Diana is definitely top notch here in terms of unarmed combat. If you want to say that Thor keeps his Asgardian physiology it still comes down to Thor and Namor vs everyone else. Stark and Bruce get taken out quickly, and Namor shortly after that.

AsbestosFlaygon
Originally posted by vince_slice

Basically what I'm saying is fighting Thor would be similar to fighting an angry male Gorilla who's some how skilled at melee. Even our biggest and strongest humans wouldn't want any of that.
Even Fedor Emelianenko?

Q99
If Thor gets Asgardian physiology? Diana has Amazonian.


In comics, overcoming weight differences that big with skill isn't exactly rare, either.

Uriel005
Originally posted by Q99
Also, if Thor gets Asgardian physiology? Diana has Amazonian. Isn't superman depowered still stronger than the average person his size.

cdtm
Originally posted by Prep-Man
I think Hal is a more impressive fighter than Clark. Right?

Clark did beat Cobra without powers.

Hal's a good brawler though, considering Sinestro has some skills and he managed to hold his own.

I think Wonder Woman's the best fighter here, both Clark and Aquaman are competent enough to at least hold their own with Thor if they work together, and Banner's dead weight, so team DC has the advantage imo..

Q99
Originally posted by cdtm

Hal's a good brawler though, considering Sinestro has some skills and he managed to hold his own.


Don't forget all the times he fought with Green Arrow, and Ollie's no slouch in HtH.

vince_slice
Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
Even Fedor Emelianenko?

Hmm, Fedor did knock out Zulu who's like 400lbs in less than 20 seconds and arm-barred Hong Man Choi who's like 370...It'd be close but I'd still give it to a Gorilla laughing

cdtm
I don't follow much green arrow. But this probably colors my opinion a little: (Starts at 5:15)

X6GvNQws7AM

I know comic DCaU doesn't apply to comics, but Bruce Timm must think Ollie's terrible in h2h. O_o

How good is he in the comics?

Tony Stark
Replace Bruce Banner with Ben Grimm

Q99
Originally posted by cdtm
I don't follow much green arrow. But this probably colors my opinion a little: (Starts at 5:15)

I know comic DCaU doesn't apply to comics, but Bruce Timm must think Ollie's terrible in h2h. O_o

How good is he in the comics?

Better than that, he's reasonably skilled, but not in Wildcat's level.

Silent Master
Originally posted by Q99
If Thor gets Asgardian physiology? Diana has Amazonian.


In comics, overcoming weight differences that big with skill isn't exactly rare, either.

Hasn't WW been stated to only weigh around 160?

Uriel005
Originally posted by Silent Master
Hasn't WW been stated to only weigh around 160? amazons are naturally far stronger than indicated weights would normally allow for. Whether you want to chalk it up to a more advanced musculature or the gods replaced their muscles with advanced carbon nanotube structures is up to you but it would still technically count as part of the whole no powers thing in the same way that Thor is a 600+ lbs packed into a relatively small frame.

Tony Stark
Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
Even Fedor Emelianenko?

Fedor is pussy

evil face

abhilegend
Hal has oneshotted a bear before and was physically beating kilowog.ermm

abhilegend
Not oneshot but whatever

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/ef3b395e.jpg

psycho gundam
Originally posted by CosmicComet
Thor with no powers? Lol. He'd essentially be 6'7" 600 lb+ human. He would be slow as hell without Asgardian strength backing his weight. so, he keeps his asgardian weight/size, but not his asgardian dna? does not compute.

cdtm
Originally posted by psycho gundam
so, he keeps his asgardian weight/size, but not his asgardian dna? does not compute.

Aquaman weighing only 325 lbs in comics doesn't add up, imo.

His body is conditioned to withstand ocean floor depths. A dense body like that should probably weigh considerably more than a human of the same height....

Parmaniac
Originally posted by Odekahn
Marvel stomps lol

Colossus-Big C
Originally posted by cdtm
Aquaman weighing only 325 lbs in comics doesn't add up, imo.

His body is conditioned to withstand ocean floor depths. A dense body like that should probably weigh considerably more than a human of the same height.... colossus weights only 500 pounds and his body is solid steel
, he is also 7ft tall. his weight is alot more wrong the aquamans.

-Pr-
Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
colossus weights only 500 pounds and his body is solid steel
, he is also 7ft tall. his weight is alot more wrong the aquamans.

colossus' weight was retconned years ago iirc.

DarkOdin
Originally posted by Q99
If Thor gets Asgardian physiology? Diana has Amazonian.


In comics, overcoming weight differences that big with skill isn't exactly rare, either. Not the same argument works here . thor was turned into a mortal and still carried a Huge adam. bull statue. The thing had to weigh tons easily. This is with no Asgardian physiololgy Thor is a brute however team marvel has 2 huge weak links banner and stark sad

Bouboumaster
Originally posted by Prep-Man
This is just a street brawl. no power, ring, or super powers of of any kind.

Bruce Banner


I just looked back, and I change my mind: Banner ****ing soloes both team, in seconds.

This dude, with a I-Pod, can basically rape everything in sight. My guess is this: he's trashed around, fake of being knockout, then modify his cellphone, an finally open a can of whoop-ass on everyone.

Or Stark most likely can do it too. Maybe even faster. And harder.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Bouboumaster
I just looked back, and I change my mind: Banner ****ing soloes both team, in seconds.

This dude, with a I-Pod, can basically rape everything in sight. My guess is this: he's trashed around, fake of being knockout, then modify his cellphone, an finally open a can of whoop-ass on everyone.

Or Stark most likely can do it too. Maybe even faster. And harder.

Lol then Diana gets her mystical armour. And Tony gets his armour. And Aquaman gets his sonic blunderbuss. And Waterhand. And .....you see where this is going???

I think the OP wanted all of them in street clothes, H2H combat. Equipment NOT allowed.

DC wins. Clark takes out Thor, Hal takes out Stark and Banner, Aquaman and Diana take out Namor.

Q99
Originally posted by DarkOdin
Not the same argument works here . thor was turned into a mortal and still carried a Huge adam. bull statue. The thing had to weigh tons easily. This is with no Asgardian physiololgy Thor is a brute however team marvel has 2 huge weak links banner and stark sad


Diana once fought the Goddess Diana while having no powers.

Even with him being really strong, Diana can manage.

Tony Stark
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lol then Diana gets her mystical armour. And Tony gets his armour. And Aquaman gets his sonic blunderbuss. And Waterhand. And .....you see where this is going???

I think the OP wanted all of them in street clothes, H2H combat. Equipment NOT allowed.

DC wins. Clark takes out Thor, Hal takes out Stark and Banner, Aquaman and Diana take out Namor.



eek! laughing laughing out loud rolling on floor laughing Now that's some funny sh!t...
clapping

Lord Feron
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Bruce Banner? Really? C'mon.

Flyattractor
If you use PAD's veriosn of Aqua he kicks in Namors widdlw winged feet.

iceman24567
Originally posted by Tony Stark
eek! laughing laughing out loud rolling on floor laughing Now that's some funny sh!t...
clapping Yet its mostly true...

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Tony Stark
eek! laughing laughing out loud rolling on floor laughing Now that's some funny sh!t...
clapping

Lol was it really that far fetched?

Aquaman is REASONABLY skilled at H2H. Diana is incredibly skilled. Together, they have a good chance of beating Namor. As mentioned by others, Clark is actually pretty handy with his fists, as is Hal.

Or do you see Tony beating Hal, and Thor beating Clark?

Tony Stark
Originally posted by iceman24567
Yet its mostly true...


I call bullsh!t... Clark isn't talking out THOR. Even without any powers THOR has thousands of years of combat skills and is still able to lift multiple tons. THOR solos. The others take notes.

DarkSaint85
Wait, what?

How does he manage to still press multiple tons without powers??

Are you giving him his Asgardian physiology?

Then why doesn't Clark get his Kryptonian physiology?

-Pr-
Originally posted by Tony Stark
I call bullsh!t... Clark isn't talking out THOR. Even without any powers THOR has thousands of years of combat skills and is still able to lift multiple tons. THOR solos. The others take notes.

Superman has over a thousand years of combat experience.

Blight
This is the thing that's stupid about the whole "No Powers" thing. At what point does something become a power? If you're 600 lbs with a straight backbone and no forearms to protect your hulking weight from crashing down on you, I call that a power. Any time something directly contradicts the laws of physics, you have yourself a power.

Again, that's the problem with these debates. It's easy to forgo certain things if it benefits your case.

JayDaDon
But still, there's no way it can be said that Clark can win easily against Thor depowered. There's nothing cut and dry about that fight. More often than not I'd say stalemate if not giving the fight to Thor. And the dude saying Hal Jordan can take on tony and banner at the same time is really underrating tony. Stark CAN fight you know?

DarkSaint85
Yeah, I just took it to mean they're all human proportioned and sized. So whilst Thor is still 6"7 or whatever, he is built as that comics depict him but NOT literally 700lbs or whatever the handbooks give. Same with Clark etc. Otherwise, Diana without magical powers is just....clay.

So yes, Thor is the biggest guy on the field, followed by Clark. But neither of them are slow hulking brutes.

As for Stark/Banner and Hal, yes, I know Stark can fight - when he escaped from the Skrull ship during SEcret Invasion, for example. BUT I do see Hal beating him, and am totally ignoring Banner.

Blight
Originally posted by JayDaDon
But still, there's no way it can be said that Clark can win easily against Thor depowered. There's nothing cut and dry about that fight. More often than not I'd say stalemate if not giving the fight to Thor. And the dude saying Hal Jordan can take on tony and banner at the same time is really underrating tony. Stark CAN fight you know? Hal Jordan could probably one shot Banner, it's about that simple.

The biggest problem I see Clark Representing in his fight against Thor is a completely foreign Martial Art style. I honestly haven't seen much about Thor fighting sans hammer, so I couldn't say what he would do that outclasses the martial arts. Something tells me he's either a blunt force bludgeoner or fights akin to a pro wrestler. The point of Martial Arts is to defeat opponents larger than one's self. I'm not saying either one wins due to the fact that I don't know much about Thor without powers, though.

Batman-Prime
The weight wouldn't be the deciding factor, it's a nice excuse to say that Marvel wins because of their weak links, Bruce and Tony. Weight alone is nothing Thor build is similar to Clarks, and they would be quite even. No one would even argue that Thor stands a chance against Batman for example. The weight would be, without powers nothing else then fat. It's even impossible for a human being of Thors shape and Build to weight that much, an Asgardian yes, without powers no.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Blight
Hal Jordan could probably one shot Banner, it's about that simple.

The biggest problem I see Clark Representing in his fight against Thor is a completely foreign Martial Art style. I honestly haven't seen much about Thor fighting sans hammer, so I couldn't say what he would do that outclasses the martial arts. Something tells me he's either a blunt force bludgeoner or fights akin to a pro wrestler. The point of Martial Arts is to defeat opponents larger than one's self. I'm not saying either one wins due to the fact that I don't know much about Thor without powers, though.

I would class him as a brawler - but just because he's up against some fancy martial art, doesn't give Clark an auto-win. In a street fight, brawling can be pretty effective, it works. What DOES give Clark the edge is how his martial arts skills have been portrayed when he was depowered.

Blight
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I would class him as a brawler - but just because he's up against some fancy martial art, doesn't give Clark an auto-win. In a street fight, brawling can be pretty effective, it works. What DOES give Clark the edge is how his martial arts skills have been portrayed when he was depowered. That and the fact that no one recognizes Kryptonian Martial Arts. Hard to anticipate.

abhilegend
Hal is quite a fighter
Takes down three thugs at once

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/6283d39b.jpg
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/993fc320.jpg

Just see it

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/a6efe2af.jpg
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/91dd72c6.jpg
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/18235725.jpg
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/13931a70.jpg
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/d4ade294.jpg

Again

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/62fe0835.jpg

Against an alien warlord

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/66dd7335.jpg
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/a6d0ad14.jpg

Back flips

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/5e656c3b.jpg
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/9e0fba79.jpg

Newjak
I would just like to point out, no human being will ever beat a full grown Gorilla no expression

The Gorilla would basically rip the man in half no matter how bad ass they thought they were.

As for the fight, Thor is obviously the biggest and while most people will argue Superman isn't far behind skill wise I would still give the the nod to Thor.


Thor is more apt to rely on his warrior skill in fights.

As for Skill I would put Diana as the best. It's what she is most known for.

Then probably followed by Thor.


I think an argument could be made that Thor is the most dangerous character in the match due to him being the biggest and obviously still very fast.

Diana is right there though.

Obviously Tony and Bruce are the weakest links.

I'm gonna say Team DC wins.

-Pr-
Originally posted by abhilegend
Hal is quite a fighter
Takes down three thugs at once

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/6283d39b.jpg
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/993fc320.jpg

Just see it

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/a6efe2af.jpg
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/91dd72c6.jpg
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/18235725.jpg
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/13931a70.jpg
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/d4ade294.jpg

Again

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/62fe0835.jpg

Against an alien warlord

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/66dd7335.jpg
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/a6d0ad14.jpg

Back flips

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/5e656c3b.jpg
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/9e0fba79.jpg

Did you see him recently too? Taking on those guys in the hangar?

D-Block
Originally posted by Stoic
Thor is 6'6" 670 LBS, and would likely be the most dominant combatant on the field.

abhilegend
Originally posted by -Pr-
Did you see him recently too? Taking on those guys in the hangar?
Yeah, he's an excellent fighter.

-Pr-
Originally posted by abhilegend
Yeah, he's an excellent fighter.

It's like he said, he used to train with Ollie every day.

Delta1938
Originally posted by vince_slice
It's not unrealistic to see Thor moving around at that weight. He'd be roughly the same size as a large male Gorilla. They walk around at roughly 500lbs of weight, yet they're still quite agile and powerful. They also share many of our physical characteristics as humans (which is not surprising because they're one of our closest phylogenetic cousins).

Basically what I'm saying is fighting Thor would be similar to fighting an angry male Gorilla who's some how skilled at melee. Even our biggest and strongest humans wouldn't want any of that.

I've only seen one or two examples of Thor being depowered, but he didn't look anything like a male gorilla physically anymore than Street Level characters.

vince_slice
Originally posted by Delta1938
I've only seen one or two examples of Thor being depowered, but he didn't look anything like a male gorilla physically anymore than Street Level characters.

I was partly joking about Thor being like a gorilla. But the main point was to dispel the notion that Thor would be too heavy to move at that weight. If a gorilla with a similar weight can still be agile and powerful, Thor should be able to also, realistically.

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by vince_slice
I was partly joking about Thor being like a gorilla. But the main point was to dispel the notion that Thor would be too heavy to move at that weight. If a gorilla with a similar weight can still be agile and powerful, Thor should be able to also, realistically.

thumb up

Either way, you can't use Thor's weight against him when there has been no precedent set of it effecting him when he's been explicitly depowered.

Blight
Originally posted by vince_slice
I was partly joking about Thor being like a gorilla. But the main point was to dispel the notion that Thor would be too heavy to move at that weight. If a gorilla with a similar weight can still be agile and powerful, Thor should be able to also, realistically. A gorilla has a completely different structure, unless somehow Thor's forearms grow to support his massive weight. I don't think the op realized this little factor. The only reason Thor depowered can do what he can due powerless is writers negligence.

Has Thor thrown his 700 lb weight around on panel like a huge gorilla??

Delta1938
Originally posted by vince_slice
I was partly joking about Thor being like a gorilla. But the main point was to dispel the notion that Thor would be too heavy to move at that weight. If a gorilla with a similar weight can still be agile and powerful, Thor should be able to also, realistically.

Ah ok. I've always just seen a powerless Thor moving around normally myself. I've thought perhaps the whole "Asgardian density" thing is negated when he's powerless.

JakeTheBank
Either said weight discrepancy doesn't exist when he's depowered and he's reduced to being peak human in stats, or his weight is reduced to 250 something and he's peak human in stats.

It's pretty simple, imo.

Blight
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Either said weight discrepancy doesn't exist when he's depowered and he's reduced to being peak human in stats, or his weight is reduced to 250 something and he's peak human in stats.

It's pretty simple, imo.
Exactly. The whole 700 lb argument is pointless to me.

cdtm
Originally posted by Q99
Diana once fought the Goddess Diana while having no powers.

Even with him being really strong, Diana can manage.

And Hippolyta beat Herc in the Amazon's origin story. "Powerless" Amazon's are pretty tough.

The op clearly intends for everyone to have human level stats though...

Tony Stark
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Wait, what?

How does he manage to still press multiple tons without powers??

Are you giving him his Asgardian physiology?

Then why doesn't Clark get his Kryptonian physiology?

No problem, give me some scans about a powerless Kryptonian physology that shows that it'll be in an Asgardian's physical realm. And that should end my confusion about THOR soloing the group.

Per Marvel

The average Asgardian male can lift (press) about 30 tons under optimal conditions; the average Asgardian female can lift (press) 25 tons under optimal conditions

Blight
Originally posted by Tony Stark
No problem, give me some scans about a powerless Kryptonian physology that shows that it'll be in an Asgardian's physical realm. And that should end my confusion about THOR soloing the group.

Per Marvel

The average Asgardian male can lift (press) about 30 tons under optimal conditions; the average Asgardian female can lift (press) 25 tons under optimal conditions That's what normal people call "powers", dude.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Tony Stark
No problem, give me some scans about a powerless Kryptonian physology that shows that it'll be in an Asgardian's physical realm. And that should end my confusion about THOR soloing the group.

Per Marvel

The average Asgardian male can lift (press) about 30 tons under optimal conditions; the average Asgardian female can lift (press) 25 tons under optimal conditions
Reading OP helps
Originally posted by Prep-Man
This is just a street brawl. no power, ring, or super powers of of any kind.

Tony Stark
Thor
Bruce Banner
Namor

vs

Hal Jordan
Superman
Diana
Aquaman

Delta1938
Originally posted by Blight
That's what normal people call "powers", dude.

thumb up

I think Tony's trying to argue that a "powerless Thor" would merely mean that he's a normal Asgardian, instead of the well above normal we see. Except the topic is Thor without powers, not without powers compared to an average Asgardian.

Juntai
I mean, if that were the case, Aquaman is merely superstrong because of Atlantean physiology too. :/

Blight
Originally posted by Delta1938
thumb up

I think Tony's trying to argue that a "powerless Thor" would merely mean that he's a normal Asgardian, instead of the well above normal we see. Except the topic is Thor without powers, not without powers compared to an average Asgardian. Problem with that is that that could easily bring us to the realm of a Kryptonians DNA under yellow sun is still constituted as a normal kryptonian. Where do we draw the line? A marvel fan wants to draw the line at the point where Thor retains the majority of his strength while everyone else is at human Level. In which case the thread is spite and should be closed.

JakeTheBank
No powers.

It's really simple. erm

Everyone's strength, agility, speed, etc, is all reduced to peak human level, assuming that they've displayed that much while depowered like Thor or Diana or averagish human like Tony or Hal.

Blight
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
No powers.

It's really simple. erm

Everyone's strength, agility, speed, etc, is all reduced to peak human level, assuming that they've displayed that much while depowered like Thor or Diana or averagish human like Tony or Hal.

Apparently its not so simple to everyone.

JakeTheBank
Either way, adding Bruce Banner (seriously?) on the Avengers practically gives the JLA the win, obviously.

Blight
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Either way, adding Bruce Banner (seriously?) on the Avengers practically gives the JLA the win, obviously.

Yeah that makes it almost as landslide as Thor retaining his strength.

JakeTheBank
Best case you can make for Banner is that he'll snap somehow before being beaten into unconsciousness and go crazy and jump on someone's shoulders and start biting them and shit.

Blight
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Best case you can make for Banner is that he'll snap somehow before being beaten into unconsciousness and go crazy and jump on someone's shoulders and start biting them and shit.
Hahaha savage banner!

Delta1938
Originally posted by Blight
Problem with that is that that could easily bring us to the realm of a Kryptonians DNA under yellow sun is still constituted as a normal kryptonian. Where do we draw the line? A marvel fan wants to draw the line at the point where Thor retains the majority of his strength while everyone else is at human Level. In which case the thread is spite and should be closed.

Completely agree. And others have also pointed-out that going by the "their normal physiology" argument, both Wonder Woman and Aquaman would still be superhuman. So on DC's side you'd have an at worst average Kryptonian(so Superman would be less powerful, but not to the degree Thor is), an Amazon(I think Hippolyta had threw a car a good distance with relative ease) and an Atlantean(I dunno how strong the average Atlantean is, but probably greater than Captain America), with an above average human in Hal.

So the Avengers side would have a what? 30 tonner in Thor? And Namor would be superhuman, but likely less than Aquaman since Namor's half human, and going by "normal physiology" would be more than human, but less than Atlantean, and then an average human in Tony and an arguably below average human in Bruce.

In that scenario, Superman alone stomps, while the rest cheerlead. I could even see Wonder Woman beating Thor with nerve strikes and stuff even if he's superhuman.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Best case you can make for Banner is that he'll snap somehow before being beaten into unconsciousness and go crazy and jump on someone's shoulders and start biting them and shit.

It's probably not canon, but I think the novel INCREDIBLE HULK: WHAT SAVAGE BEAST? would be a good indicator of how Bruce would fare. He ended-up getting pissed-off enough to go from Professor Hulk to Savage Banner, and ended-up in sewage or something. Betty found him, took him home, and forced him to take a shower. She had to actually start washing him, and he resisted and tried to get out. He said, "HULK STRONGEST ONE THERE IS!!" and she said, "Not in here." And proved it, overpowering him. Then, they ended-up boinking.

On a side note, since Savage Banner is the Savage Hulk personality in Bruce Banner's body, and Savage Hulk's personality is Hulk's personality as a child, wouldn't that technically make Betty a pedophile?

-Pr-
Aquaman is genetically half-human, but it doesn't seem to affect him as much tbh.

Delta1938
Originally posted by -Pr-
Aquaman is genetically half-human, but it doesn't seem to affect him as much tbh.

(facepalm) embarrasment I can't believe I forgot that. But you said it doesn't seem to effect him as much. Isn't Namor officially a mutant hybrid? If so, that would show why he's so much stronger, as well as his flight.

Existere
The spirit of the thread is pretty obviously to make all the characters human, not the base version of whatever they are.

Anyways, DC should win.

Tony Stark
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
No powers.

It's really simple. erm

Everyone's strength, agility, speed, etc, is all reduced to peak human level, assuming that they've displayed that much while depowered like Thor or Diana or averagish human like Tony or Hal.


The problem in that is, that they aren't all humans. So can't put them all in that box. And the thread never stated that. I don't mean to piss in your cheerios.

Delta1938
Originally posted by Tony Stark
The problem in that is, that they aren't all humans. So can't put them all in that box. And the thread never stated that. I don't mean to piss in your cheerios.

Then Superman has his full array of powers and single handedly stomps the Avengers. End thread.

Silent Master
Originally posted by Delta1938
Then Superman has his full array of powers and single handedly stomps the Avengers. End thread.

The OP said no powers.

DarkSaint85
Even base Kryptonians are waaaaay above base Asgardians . I mean, Kal is usually depicted above other Kryptonians, so its actually not inanalogous to compare him to Thor 's standing amongst other Asgardians.

Reply to Silent Master : he was only replying to Tony Starks inability to comprehend words and Marvel bias.

Delta1938
Originally posted by Silent Master
The OP said no powers.

Did you not read the posts I put before hand? Even if you didn't, reading comprehension FTL. If you DID read my other posts, well, then, even worse.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Reply to Silent Master : he was only replying to Tony Starks inability to comprehend words and Marvel bias.

thumb up

Tony Stark
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Even base Kryptonians are waaaaay above base Asgardians . I mean, Kal is usually depicted above other Kryptonians, so its actually not inanalogous to compare him to Thor 's standing amongst other Asgardians.

Reply to Silent Master : he was only replying to Tony Starks inability to comprehend words and Marvel bias.


Now your speaking silly talk... Where are you getting your info on The average Kryptonians being waaaaaaay above average Asgardians...?

Please enlighten me.

Tony Stark
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Either said weight discrepancy doesn't exist when he's depowered and he's reduced to being peak human in stats, or his weight is reduced to 250 something and he's peak human in stats.

It's pretty simple, imo.

Your pulling that out of your ass

Tony Stark
Originally posted by -Pr-
Superman has over a thousand years of combat experience.


laughing

So Superman's been on the Earth and in combat for over 1000 years...?

I'm pretty sure that he arrived here as an infant in the 1930's.

That maths kinda fuzzy to me brother.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Tony Stark
Now your speaking silly talk... Where are you getting your info on The average Kryptonians being waaaaaaay above average Asgardians...?

Please enlighten me.

Comics.

Average Kryptonian under a yellow sun can lift more than 30 tons. Look at Zod (ok, he had military training, but still).

Originally posted by Tony Stark
laughing

So Superman's been on the Earth and in combat for over 1000 years...?

I'm pretty sure that he arrived here as an infant in the 1930's.

That maths kinda fuzzy to me brother.

Its not fuzzy if you read comics. Superman and Wonder Woman got trapped in Asgard for 1000 years (Superman..#165? Correct me if I'm wrong) and they fought there for 1000 years before coming back to the main DCU reality.

abhilegend
^Action comics 761.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Tony Stark
Now your speaking silly talk... Where are you getting your info on The average Kryptonians being waaaaaaay above average Asgardians...?

Please enlighten me.
Are you serious? You probably are.

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by Tony Stark
Your pulling that out of your ass

Not really.

Thor's been depowered several times by my count in comics. Each time, he's displayed peak human strength, speed, etc. There had been no mention whatsoever of his weight slowing him down at all. So, by logic, either his Asgardian physique doesn't count against him making the argument he'd be slow and sluggish invalid or by being depowered, his increased mass is reduced to human standards.

Juntai
lol @ all this

Uriel005
I know right. Especially considering people with no powers in DC and Marvel still have far higher showings than the greatest Olympic athletes would ever hope of showing.

Silent Master
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Comics.

Average Kryptonian under a yellow sun can lift more than 30 tons. Look at Zod (ok, he had military training, but still).


Most Kryptonians don't spend very much if any time under a yellow sun, so their normal strength would be whatever their strength is on Krypton.

Juntai
Originally posted by Silent Master
Most Kryptonians don't spend very much if any time under a yellow sun, so their normal strength would be whatever their strength is on Krypton. Most kryptonians are dead, the ones that get written about typically spend it under a yellow sun and are nearly as strong as the Superfamily.

Silent Master
Originally posted by Juntai
Most kryptonians are dead, the ones that get written about typically spend it under a yellow sun and are nearly as strong as the Superfamily.

So basically, powered up Kryptonians are on average more powerful than non-powered up Asgardians.

DarkSaint85
Eurgh, look lol I'm not arguing about powerups or whatever.

My original point was that if they were all equalised to being humans, Clark would win against Thor. Not a stomp by any means, but its a fallacy to assume that Superman doesn't have any H2H skills.

For some reason, TonyStark (the poster) thinks that taking all the powers away from Thor means that he is a base line Asgardian - but for some reason, we are not allowed to have Clark as a baseline Kryptonian.

Silent Master
Thor also has HTH skills, I see him beating Supes for a majority.

Juntai
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Eurgh, look lol I'm not arguing about powerups or whatever.

My original point was that if they were all equalised to being humans, Clark would win against Thor. Not a stomp by any means, but its a fallacy to assume that Superman doesn't have any H2H skills.

For some reason, TonyStark (the poster) thinks that taking all the powers away from Thor means that he is a base line Asgardian - but for some reason, we are not allowed to have Clark as a baseline Kryptonian. Or Wonderwoman as an Amazon, or Aquaman as an atlantean, lol.

DarkSaint85
So as per OP:

Thor vs Clark
Namor vs Arthur
Tony vs Hal
Bruce vs Diana.

Diana one shots Bruce, and helps Hal out. They beat Tony, then help Arthur out. Then they dogpile Thor. I really cannot see how Marvel win with these numbers and skills disadvantage (Banner, I'm looking at you). To argue otherwise is...biased?

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Silent Master
Thor also has HTH skills, I see him beating Supes for a majority.

No doubt, he DOES have H2H skills....but would it be a stomp? All Clark needs is to delay him long enough for Diana to one shot Banner, then they can both go against him.

Silent Master
Banner being in the fight makes it alomst impossible for Marvel to win.

Juntai
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
No doubt, he DOES have H2H skills....but would it be a stomp? All Clark needs is to delay him long enough for Diana to one shot Banner, then they can both go against him. Doesn't stomp Clark, though I may give him the nod. Lex trained with some of the top martial artists as well as Amazons, and Clark whooped him pretty good while powerless. Point being that Hal probably beats Tony fairly quickly, and Diana fingerjabs Banner to the floor in a second's notice.

JayDaDon
Just a question about that kryptonian argument, wouldn't the yellow sunlight be considered an amp/power for a kryptonian? I mean they "normally"(on krypton at least) don't have any powers at all right?

Juntai
Originally posted by JayDaDon
Just a question about that kryptonian argument, wouldn't the yellow sunlight be considered an amp/power for a kryptonian? I mean they "normally"(on krypton at least) don't have any powers at all right? Old Krypton was under a Red Sun, a depowerment.
New Krypton was under a yellow one.

JayDaDon
Really? Didn't know krypton was under a red sun. Obviously it makes sense now but I didn't consider that.

Silent Master
Old Krypton was always under a red sun, so I'd hardly call that a depowerment.

I wasn't aware of "New Krypton' being under a yellow sun, how many people are currently on NK?

JayDaDon
So what do you think a kryptonian would be like without the power of ANY form of sunlight? Just curious.

Silent Master
W/O a solar energy amp, they'd probably be around normal human level.

DarkSaint85
Agreed. Although, even with a yellow sun amp, the typical Kryptonian is weaker than Clark, attributed variously to his training (just as Batman is peak amongst normal non-powered humans) and the length of time he's spent under a yellow sun.

-Pr-
Originally posted by Tony Stark
laughing

So Superman's been on the Earth and in combat for over 1000 years...?

I'm pretty sure that he arrived here as an infant in the 1930's.

That maths kinda fuzzy to me brother.

He actually does have over a thousand years combat experience, from when he was transported to DC's asgard and fought in a war that lasted a thousand years. He was only returned to his own time once he (wielding mjolnir) had vanquished the enemy.

How about you assume less, as you know what it does.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Old Krypton was always under a red sun, so I'd hardly call that a depowerment.

I wasn't aware of "New Krypton' being under a yellow sun, how many people are currently on NK?

There were 100,000 before Lex blew it up.

Silent Master
Originally posted by -Pr-
There were 100,000 before Lex blew it up.

Did any of them survive?

-Pr-
Originally posted by Silent Master
Did any of them survive?

Some, yes, but they were defeated by Superman and some others when they attacked Earth in revenge.

Silent Master
Originally posted by -Pr-
Some, yes, but they were defeated by Superman and some others when they attacked Earth in revenge.

Would this be the feat I heard about where Superman beat IIRC 5 Kryptonians at the same time.

Juntai
Originally posted by Silent Master
Would this be the feat I heard about where Superman beat IIRC 5 Kryptonians at the same time. thumb up

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