Stoic

Originally posted by Gecko4lif
The only way hulk would ever get strong enough to break caps shield is if marvel decided to go through with the abstract of rage angle and made hulk a cosmic.

Good thing legions of death threats prevented that from happening.

The funny thing here is that the Hulk is as much cosmic as any character powered by solar energy is, and it doesn't take an abstract level being to dent America's Shield. Before stating things like you just did, you need to have payed close attention to the past 5 years of character development that was done on the Hulk.

This is not the Savage Hulk that needs days to ramp up in strength, but a Hulk that ramped up in minutes to possess enough power to obliterate a planet without even touching it, ant that was the least amount of damage done on panel, he may have destroyed a solar system with the help of Betty.

Gecko4lif

Im not sure you understand the magnitude of difference between planet and solor system.

Gecko4lif

Just to humor you

Well, lets assume the Solar System is sphere and its boundary is the oort cloud, that would mean approximately 3,296,159,650,000,000,000,000,000,000 Earth's can fit inside the Solar System.

That is 3.2 billion-billion-billion Earth's.

Do you think Hulk is that strong? Do you? Seriously?

Stoic

Originally posted by Gecko4lif
Im not sure you understand the magnitude of difference between planet and solor system.

I'm not sure that you realize that the Hulk may have destroyed far more than a planet. Tell me something, can you quantify exactly how powerful WB Hulk was? If not there is more weight to side with the Hulk having the power to dent the shield that has been broken in the past that the weight that says he can not. The most pressing fact is this. Nowhere did it ever state that the Hulk was near his limit, at his limit, or had a limit to just how much more powerful he could have gotten.

Stoic

Originally posted by Gecko4lif
Just to humor you

Well, lets assume the Solar System is sphere and its boundary is the oort cloud, that would mean approximately 3,296,159,650,000,000,000,000,000,000 Earth's can fit inside the Solar System.

That is 3.2 billion-billion-billion Earth's.

Do you think Hulk is that strong? Do you? Seriously?

How many planets do you actually believe are in an actual solar system? The number you brought up is ridiculous in its scope because no solar system has that many planets within it. What I said was that for all we know, he could have destroyed every planet within a solar system, and if that was not what I said, it was certainly what I meant.

Also what the hell does that number have to do with the integrity of America's Shield? Do you really believe that the Shield is that strong? Do you really?

Gecko4lif

Originally posted by Stoic
I'm not sure that you realize that the Hulk may have destroyed far more than a planet. Tell me something, can you quantify exactly how powerful WB Hulk was? If not there is more weight to side with the Hulk having the power to dent the shield that has been broken in the past that the weight that says he can not. The most pressing fact is this. Nowhere did it ever state that the Hulk was near his limit, at his limit, or had a limit to just how much more powerful he could have gotten.

Firstly. Hulk had help and can be attributed no more than half the energy of the feat.

Second. "May have". Stick to whats on the page. They destroyed a planet and a few moons.

Third. It is fallacious logic to assume he is not near his limit because it didnt say he was. You have no idea. You are asserting your interpretation as fact.

Gecko4lif

Originally posted by Stoic
How many planets do you actually believe are in an actual solar system? The number you brought up is ridiculous in its scope because no solar system has that many planets within it. What I said was that for all we know, he could have destroyed every planet within a solar system, and if that was not what I said, it was certainly what I meant.

It doesnt matter. The amount of energy would have to be the same if your going to maintain planet busting status all the way to the edge of the solar system.

Its the same amount of energy weather the space is full or empty.

It has nothing to do with caps shield I was refering to you "derp hulk blew up a solar system" comment. But. If we go by feats actually it has a far better chance of being that strong than hulk does of breaking it if we go by the level of being required to damage it. Considering sky-father level being are galaxy busters.

Stoic

Originally posted by Gecko4lif
Firstly. Hulk had help and can be attributed no more than half the energy of the feat.

Second. "May have". Stick to whats on the page. They destroyed a planet and a few moons.

Third. It is fallacious logic to assume he is not near his limit because it didnt say he was. You have no idea. You are asserting your interpretation as fact.

Didn't I bring up Betty in the feat? Ok

Did you see anything out in space during the aftermath of the collision? Well if you saw nothing, then it can just as easily be interpreted as everything was destroyed.

The Beyonder on panel stated that the Hulk was an infinite power. if you're bent on unraveling comic book history you should take it up with the writer, because from what I have read time and again about the Hulk is that he has no upper limit to his strength.

Back to what matters. The shield is not indestructible, if you don't believe that he can, despite the idea that he has no upper limit to his strength, and yet the Shield has an upper limit to it's durability rating, that has been seen 5 times at the very least, then go on believing. However more evidence points to the Hulk being able to at the very least dent it.

Stoic

Originally posted by Gecko4lif
It has nothing to do with caps shield I was refering to you "derp hulk blew up a solar system" comment. But. If we go by feats actually it has a far better chance of being that strong than hulk does of breaking it if we go by the level of being required to damage it. Considering sky-father level being are galaxy busters.

Once again. Can you quantify just how strong the Hulk was? Yes or No?

Gecko4lif

Originally posted by Stoic
Didn't I bring up Betty in the feat? Ok

You tried to make it sound like he blew up the planet on his own and only mention betty when you were trying to wank him like a ****ing british pornstar

And even then you never stated that she infact did contribute half of the energy, which could be considered dishonest debating practices.

http://imageshack.us/f/52/81615084.jpg/

Yes. You can clearly see stars int he background between the debris from the one planet. STOP ****ING WANKING

Beyonder is also completely crazy. If your going to use the words of a crazy man, no, a RETCONNED crazy man as a defense your argument is piss poor.

Besides the fact it doesnt lets see the things that hulk hasnt been strong enough to beat. Just recently.

1. Sentry
2. Zues
3. Betty
4. Thor

There are probably more but that is just off the top of my head.

Originally posted by Stoic
Once again. Can you quantify just how strong the Hulk was? Yes or No?
Blow up a planet and 3 moons. Herald level.

If you want me to give you an exact figure then yeah I could.

Stoic

And you point the finger at me and say dishonest debating practices?

If you have a problem understanding what I wrote, and you feel a need to twist it so that you can come out on top, or feel like you did than fine. You're wrong, but I have no time for childish games.

Did you say stars could be seen? Would that make it an entirely different solar system? What did I say? Did I not say that from all we know, he could have been outputting enough power to have destroyed an entire solar system, as in singular? Did I say anything about a universe?

You may want to go back and read my every post in this thread, because I included Betty. If you believe that I am wanking the Hulk then, again it's simply your opinion, which means very little to me, or this thread. Try to stay on the subject. I don't believe that you are capable of this small task, but give it a shot.

Again, can you or can you not, quantify just how powerful the Hulk was? You can't so stop lying. Actually I have a better idea, let's agree to disagree, because I have little to no patience for people who twist the truth for little to no gain. Now you need to go and look into your mirror, and repeat these words.

"I simply can't believe the depths that I will stoop to, to simply prove a point, even though everything that I am saying is bullsh1t".

SuperiorTech

Wait a minute is this about the shot of Umar standing on a rock that is nearly completely obscured by dust and debris.Also they were shot of the sky through out that comic that didn't show they were any other planets besides the one they were on.

Gecko4lif

Originally posted by Stoic
And you point the finger at me and say dishonest debating practices?

If you have a problem understanding what I wrote, and you feel a need to twist it so that you can come out on top, or feel like you did than fine. You're wrong, but I have no time for childish games.

Did you say stars could be seen? Would that make it an entirely different solar system? What did I say? Did I not say that from all we know, he could have been outputting enough power to have destroyed an entire solar system, as in singular? Did I say anything about a universe?

You may want to go back and read my every post in this thread, because I included Betty. If you believe that I am wanking the Hulk then, again it's simply your opinion, which means very little to me, or this thread. Try to stay on the subject. I don't believe that you are capable of this small task, but give it a shot.

Again, can you or can you not, quantify just how powerful the Hulk was? You can't so stop lying. Actually I have a better idea, let's agree to disagree, because I have little to no patience for people who twist the truth for little to no gain. Now you need to go and look into your mirror, and repeat these words.

"I simply can't believe the depths that I will stoop to, to simply prove a point, even though everything that I am saying is bullsh1t".

I dont feel like sectioning this off so ill just son you all at once.

1. Your back pedaling. Its unbecoming
2. Considering you never see the star for the solar system the planet is on you cant make that argument. The planet could easily have a plutonian style orbit. Any on of the stars in the background have a legitimate chance of being the star of that solar system where as there is zero evidence. Zero. That hulk destroyed anything outside of the planet and a few moons
3. It would take about 2.2 x 10^33 joules to bow up the planet and moons assuming they are a similar distance to our own

so divide that in half and you get hulk's contribution of 1.1 x 10 ^33 joules which is 2.6 ^23 tons of TNT or 260 zetta tons

The rest of your post is just shit. But seeing as how its you that is posting it I cant say I could expect better.

DarkOdin

Originally posted by Stoic
The Hulk has infinite strength potential, the shield has a breaking point, this should be simple to figure out. The Hulk can output the amount of strength that it would take to dent the shield simply because he has no limit, and the shield does. Do you even know how powerful WB Hulk was? If not you might think twice about making claims about how powerful he was. The Hulk doesn't have infinte strength. WBH is supposed to be the max. THe Odinpower has destroyed galaxies and that is the min. force we seen damge the sheild So you are saying that WBH is at galxy busting strength???

Stoic

Originally posted by DarkOdin
The Hulk doesn't have infinte strength. WBH is supposed to be the max. THe Odinpower has destroyed galaxies and that is the min. force we seen damge the sheild So you are saying that WBH is at galxy busting strength???

Don't say things that you don't know. It was never stated that the Hulk could not have gotten stronger during HOTM. Also you may want to rethink using beings of abstract power or Sky Father level characters as a benchmark to weigh out how much it would take to destroy the shield. If you have proof that the Hulk of HOTM was at his max when he collided with Betty, why was he seen later in the same arc with even more power?

SuperiorTech

CA: Ha! Fin Fang Foom shooting nuclear missiles out of his mouth, no less!

GP: And Umar. Just love that character. I thought what Giffen, Dematteis and Maguire did with her in the Defenders: Indefensible mini was hilarious. And it was clearly time for the Worldbreaker to actually break a world.

Read More: http://www.comicsalliance.com/2011/08/31/greg-pak-incredible-hulk-exit-interview/#ixzz1qwWwCs1u

Silent Master

The Hulk isn't destroying Cap's shield.

carver9

WBH let alone WWH would rip this sh** in half with no trouble.

carver9

Originally posted by DarkOdin
The Hulk doesn't have infinte strength. WBH is supposed to be the max. THe Odinpower has destroyed galaxies and that is the min. force we seen damge the sheild So you are saying that WBH is at galxy busting strength???

He was still growing in power. Saying that WBH was his limit when we see him growing a 1000 ft tall because of extra radiation is ignoring the character potential.

h1a8

IMO WBH can definitely dent it significantly. People are overestimating the strength of Cap's shield. It's not even that thick.

Lord Feron

Classic, no ****ing chance maybe a few dents at best. Current if it is only made of vibraium and uru well he should have alot better chance.

Silent Master

Originally posted by h1a8
IMO WBH can definitely dent it significantly. People are overestimating the strength of Cap's shield. It's not even that thick.

Superman is thinner than the Hulk, so the Hulk must be far stronger than he is.

Colossus-Big C

Originally posted by DarkOdin
The Hulk doesn't have infinte strength. WBH is supposed to be the max.

Theres no max to hulks strength, where did you hear that from?

Pre recton beyonder said himself there was No upper limit to hulks strength potential.

Naija boy

Hulk definitely dents it

Sin I AM

shield........

Galan007

Originally posted by DarkOdin
1. No

2. No

Capt's shield has only been damaged or destroyed 4. times. If i am correct

1. King Thor using the Odinpower to amp Mjolnir

2. King Thor 'eyes beams

3. The Seprent at the peak of his power

4. The beyonder.

And guess what they are all more powerful then WBH can dream Thanos /w/ IG and Molecule Man also destroyed it.

Anyway, was it actually stated/shown that KT amped Mjolnir with the Odinpower when he dented the shield?

Silent Master

IIRC, Mjolnir was glowing with energy at the time.

Galan007

I don't think so...

Damborgson

WBH can dent it. WWH....no.

Stoic

Originally posted by Damborgson
WBH can dent it. WWH....no.

Yep, and to say that he couldn't dent it would be silly. If we go off of the strength, that at a far Hulk was able to warp primary adamantium in the form of Ultron's chassis, and then add that WB Hulk was thousands of time stronger than that, it becomes pretty obvious that the shield would not remain undamaged. The question is how many times stronger is the shield than primary adamantium. Denting the shield or even cracking it isn't as ridiculous as it seems.

carver9

Originally posted by Damborgson
WBH can dent it. WWH....no.

Yes he can. WBH would rip it in half.

Silent Master

I've seen no feats to suggest than he'd put more than at best a small dent in the shield

Nihilist

Lol Hulk aint doing shit to the Shield.

Stoic

Originally posted by Nihilist
Lol Hulk aint doing shit to the Shield.

Do you have any proof to make this claim?

Silent Master

He's likely basing it on the Hulk not having any feats to suggest that he could destroy the shield.

Damborgson

Originally posted by carver9
Yes he can. WBH would rip it in half. WWH isn't doing anything to that shield. Unless you'd like to claim WWH > Pre Reigning King Thor in striking power. which would be lol wrong to say the least.

WBH can dent it. He still has nothing to suggest being able to just grab it and rip it in half.

Nihilist

Originally posted by Stoic
Do you have any proof to make this claim? Yeah,People with far far more power than Hulk only effecting it and Hulk doesnt come anywhere near them.

Sin I AM

Soooooooooooooooo WBH is Skyfather + level now?

Stoic

Originally posted by Silent Master
He's likely basing it on the Hulk not having any feats to suggest that he could destroy the shield.

In that case I believe that you are quite wrong. Or you simply don't read Hulk comics.

h1a8

A being doesn't have to be able to physically dent the shield to be a skyfather.
And a non skyfather being can physically dent the shield.

Stoic

Originally posted by Nihilist
Yeah,People with far far more power than Hulk only effecting it and Hulk doesnt come anywhere near them.

The real question here is, does anyone really know how powerful WB Hulk was. Do you? Where did it state his level of power, and do you know the exact extent of the damage caused during the whole Dark Dimension incident? I couldn't fully tell.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Soooooooooooooooo WBH is Skyfather + level now?

What makes you think that only a character of Odin's stature could harm the shield?

Silent Master

Originally posted by h1a8
A being doesn't have to be able to physically dent the shield to be a skyfather.
And a non skyfather being can physically dent the shield.

Scans?

Galan007

Originally posted by Damborgson
Unless you'd like to claim WWH > Pre Reigning King Thor in striking power. WWH? No. WBH? Yes.

Imo.

Nihilist

Originally posted by Stoic
The real question here is, does anyone really know how powerful WB Hulk was. Do you? Where did it state his level of power, and do you know the exact extent of the damage caused during the whole Dark Dimension incident? I couldn't fully tell.We know he/Betty was as powerfull as Sentry/Genis Vell, as they did exactly the same thing...as they aint doing shit to the shield.

All you have to do is see who has messed up Caps shield, and Hulk is not on there lvl period.

[

Stoic

Originally posted by Nihilist
We know he/Betty was as powerfull as Sentry/Genis Vell, as they did exactly the same thing...as they aint doing shit to the shield.

All you have to do is see who has messed up Caps shield, and Hulk is not on there lvl period.

Do you have a scan, or a citation that you can provide, that says that they were operating on the same level as Genis, and Sentry? If not you really have no idea how powerful the Hulk was during that arc. WB Hulk was above the Sentry, because at a far lower level of power, we saw him defeat the Sentry on panel. Your point makes no sense to me.

Nihilist

Originally posted by Stoic
Do you have a scan, or a citation that you can provide, that says that they were operating on the same level as Genis, and Sentry? If not you really have no idea how powerful the Hulk was during that arc. WB Hulk was above the Sentry, because at a far lower level of power, we saw him defeat the Sentry on panel. Your point makes no sense to me. They destroyed multiple planets with punching just like Hulk/Betty did.

Seriuosly you acting down right retarded is laughable, your using the Sentry that let Hulk punch him 7 times in the face with free shots to the one that battled Genis.

Either stop being a idiot or just shut up.

Silent Master

This should be easy, just post some Hulk feats that prove he has the strength needed to destroy the shield.

Stoic

Originally posted by Nihilist
They destroyed multiple planets with punching just like Hulk/Betty did.

Seriuosly you acting down right retarded is laughable, your using the Sentry that let Hulk punch him 7 times in the face with free shots to the one that battled Genis.

Either stop being a idiot or just shut up.

Ok so you don't have any proof. Just as I thought.

Sin I AM

Originally posted by h1a8
A being doesn't have to be able to physically dent the shield to be a skyfather.
And a non skyfather being can physically dent the shield.

no being less than skyfather has dent the shield...so wtf r u talking about

Nihilist

Originally posted by Stoic
Ok so you don't have any proof. Just as I thought. Them destroying multiple planets from just punching each other isnt proof?

laughing out loud

sad troll

Damborgson

Originally posted by Galan007
WWH? No. WBH? Yes.

Imo.

I agree.

Stoic

Originally posted by Nihilist
Them destroying multiple planets from just punching each other isnt proof?

laughing out loud

sad troll

Not when the Hulk was actually holding back against the Sentry and still won that battle. So in that case if he went all out Bob would have be turned to chum. I'm not making a things up, and I'm not trolling you, I'm correcting you.

Sin I AM

Nihilist

Originally posted by Stoic
Not when the Hulk was actually holding back against the Sentry and still won that battle. So in that case if he went all out Bob would have be turned to chum. I'm not making a things up, and I'm not trolling you, I'm correcting you. Whilst Sentry fought like a moron letting Hulk punch him.

Fact he didnt fight like that against Genis and fact the destroyed multiple planets.

They can effect caps shield, as they are not on the level of anyone that messed up Caps shield, Hell we say what happened to Genis when he went up against King Thor(who dented Caps shield)

Stoic

Originally posted by Sin I AM
what are you talking about?

WW Hulk beat Bob, and the Hulk stated on panel that he was holding back the entire time in NYC. If while holding back he could beat the Sentry, then what would he do against the Sentry if he was going all out. You understand?

Originally posted by Nihilist
Whilst Sentry fought like a moron letting Hulk punch him.

Fact he didnt fight like that against Genis and fact the destroyed multiple planets.

They can effect caps shield, as they are not on the level of anyone that messed up Caps shield, Hell we say what happened to Genis when he went up against King Thor(who dented Caps shield)

He lost the fight, that is all that matters. And the Hulk was holding back, which was explicitly stated on panel. If you don't like it speak to the writer, call Oprah, or Obama. It won't change what was written in a fictional book where all is possible, including a guy that has no limit to his strength to be able to rumple a shield that has been rumpled in the past.

Nihilist

Originally posted by Stoic
WW Hulk beat Bob, and the Hulk stated on panel that he was holding back the entire time in NYC. If while holding back he could beat the Sentry, then what would he do against the Sentry if he was going all out. You understand?

He lost the fight, that is all that matters. And the Hulk was holding back, which was explicitly stated on panel. If you don't like it speak to the writer, call Oprah, or Obama. It won't change what was written in a fictional book where all is possible, including a guy that has no limit to his strength to be able to rumple a shield that has been rumpled in the past. Whilst Sentry let himself be a punching bag.
So youre comparing Hulk to King Thor,Molecule Man, Thanos with IG and the Serpent LMFAO

Gecko4lif

Sentry viscously attacked hulks hands with his face and still almost won.

Whats that tell you.

Stoic

Originally posted by Nihilist
Whilst Sentry let himself be a punching bag.
So youre comparing Hulk to King Thor,Molecule Man, Thanos with IG and the Serpent LMFAO

First of all I never compared the Hulk with any of those guys, so let's not attempt the set up. Plus Thanos did a lot more than rumple the shield, he turned it to fragments. The Serpent did not use all of his power to destroy the shield, so that's another fail. King Thor did not hit that shield with everything that he had in his tank, and if he did, perhaps he's just not as powerful as many people think he was, after all he fought a Hulk that had trouble beating the Bi-Beast, and who the hell is the Thing? Normal Thor could one shot him if he really wanted to.

Nihilist

Originally posted by Gecko4lif
Sentry viscously attacked hulks hands with his face and still almost won.

Whats that tell you. laughing out loud

Nihilist

Originally posted by Stoic
First of all I never compared the Hulk with any of those guys, so let's not attempt the set up. Plus Thanos did a lot more than rumple the shield, he turned it to fragments. The Serpent did not use all of his power to destroy the shield, so that's another fail. King Thor did not hit that shield with everything that he had in his tank, and if he did, perhaps he's just not as powerful as many people think he was, after all he fought a Hulk that had trouble beating the Bi-Beast, and who the hell is the Thing? Normal Thor could one shot him if he really wanted to. DODGE POST

Stoic

Originally posted by Nihilist
DODGE POST

No just the truth. Anything else is just a lie.

Nihilist

Originally posted by Stoic
No just the truth. Anything else is just a lie. You dont even understand the concept of truth, as all you have ever done is lie on KMC..

Stoic

Way to make yourself look like... well you. ha-ha. You need help.

Nihilist

Originally posted by Stoic
Way to make yourself look like... well you. ha-ha. You need help. I need help? laughing out loud

sure its not you hiding behind the hope a mod steps in or bullshitting youre way through a thread saying youre "whooping ass".

SuperiorTech

Originally posted by Stoic
King Thor did not hit that shield with everything that he had in his tank, and if he did, perhaps he's just not as powerful as many people think he was, after all he fought a Hulk that had trouble beating the Bi-Beast, and who the hell is the Thing? Normal Thor could one shot him if he really wanted to.

Thor was fighting two of his best friend at the time you can also see his reaction after he had strike the blow he didn't realize how strong just having the Odin Force had made him.

You are also talking about a Thor that have just recently inherited the power he was not exactly experienced with it.

Nihilist

Originally posted by SuperiorTech
Thor was fighting two of his best friend at the time you can also see his reaction after he had strike the blow he didn't realize how strong just having the Odin Force had made him.

You are also talking about a Thor that have just recently inherited the power he was not exactly experienced with it. Dont worry that kind context gets overlooked when Hulk is invloved in a thread

Stoic

Originally posted by SuperiorTech
Thor was fighting two of his best friend at the time you can also see his reaction after he had strike the blow he didn't realize how strong just having the Odin Force had made him.

You are also talking about a Thor that have just recently inherited the power he was not exactly experienced with it.

Ok so by your own admission, Thor was not exactly using as much of the Odin Force as Odin would be, right?

Originally posted by Nihilist
Dont worry that kind context gets overlooked when Hulk is invloved in a thread

Whoosh, right over your head.

Nihilist

Still barking little doggie, dont worry i know you wont bite as youve been neutered.

Stoic

Originally posted by Nihilist
Still barking little doggie, dont worry i know you wont bite as youve been neutered.

Actually that's when you know that you have been bitten, look behind you. Yup no ass. My posts electrified you so badly that you have even decided to make this into your classic insult thread. ha-ha promise me one thing. Never change. Lulz.

Nihilist

Originally posted by Stoic
Actually that's when you know that you have been bitten, look behind you. Yup no ass. My posts electrified you so badly that you have even decided to make this into your classic insult thread. ha-ha promise me one thing. Never change. Lulz. Yap yap.

Fact is you havent given a half decent argument to anything ive said period all you have done is TRY to use bad context to get your failed point across.

Fact is we have seen power lvl has effected Caps shield, which is on panel proof and all you have is hopefull speculation at best.

Stoic

Originally posted by Nihilist
Yap yap.

Fact is you havent given a half decent argument to anything ive said period all you have done is TRY to use bad context to get your failed point across.

Fact is we have seen power lvl has effected Caps shield, which is on panel proof and all you have is hopefull speculation at best.

Huh? .

DarkOdin

Originally posted by Stoic
Huh? . I give it a shot. I see your point in saying we don't know how much power king Thor used to dent the shield that is a very vaild point.

But it is IMO more then WBH could dish out and this is how I come to this reasoning.

Now we have a enraged King Thor swinging bloodlusted at Captain American whiling amping he blows with the Odinpower. It is fair to say Thor wasn't holding back at this point.

As strong as WBH is/was I don't see him having the output of a raged skyfather.

Look at the huge gap in power from when Zeus pounding on hulk, Zeus taking it easy on Hulk had enough strength to destoy hulk healing factor.

So I can seen WBH being closed to a pissed of skyfather amping his blows with mjolnir on top of it

carver9

People are forgetting that Hulk allowed Sentry to hit him as well at the beginning of the fight

-Pr-

Originally posted by carver9
People are forgetting that Hulk allowed Sentry to hit him as well at the beginning of the fight

They're not; it just really doesn't matter.

carver9

Originally posted by -Pr-
They're not; it just really doesn't matter.

Why?

-Pr-

Originally posted by carver9
Why?

Because Sentry's ability to hurt Hulk isn't what's being debated here.

Stoic

Originally posted by DarkOdin
I give it a shot. I see your point in saying we don't know how much power king Thor used to dent the shield that is a very vaild point.

But it is IMO more then WBH could dish out and this is how I come to this reasoning.

Now we have a enraged King Thor swinging bloodlusted at Captain American whiling amping he blows with the Odinpower. It is fair to say Thor wasn't holding back at this point.

As strong as WBH is/was I don't see him having the output of a raged skyfather.

Look at the huge gap in power from when Zeus pounding on hulk, Zeus taking it easy on Hulk had enough strength to destoy hulk healing factor.

So I can seen WBH being closed to a pissed of skyfather amping his blows with mjolnir on top of it

Okay you know what I get when I read what you just wrote? This is not an insult, or a means of taking a cheap shot, but I have to dismantle your post in order to get a clear picture here.

1. You are correct in your view. We had no idea how much power Thor hit the shield with, but we do know that he hit it with enough force to cause the shield to rumple. This is the amount of collateral damage that was caused.

2. You're opinion could easily be wrong, after all WB Hulk hit and from my perspective survived a collision that took out an unknown amount of real estate. Even though he caused half of the damage, we have yet to know if it was more damage than a planet and a moon. This as we know was from an impact that was not directed at the planet/s or moon/s. Thor's hit should have vaporized Ironman who happened to be on the battle filed if he hit him with the amount of force that was being generated by Betty and the Hulk in the Dark Dimension. Tell me if I exaggerated in any way here. Ironman would have never survived an impact that turned Fin Fang Foom to dust, and those were just shock waves.

3. I want you to be open minded here, and attempt to move away from the title of Sky Father, and also come to the reality, that I have not placed the Hulk on Odin's level, but that Odin can generate far above the amount of power that it would take to destroy the shield. Again, a title should never be cause to say who can do what. Feats are what we should focus on, and the I can easily say that WB Hulk was outputting more force than Thor was when he rumpled America's Shield. This is if we go solely on the power stunts themselves, and the after effects that they left in their wake.

4. I will not say that WB Hulk would defeat Zeus, but I will say that the Hulk that Zeus destroyed was not on the level that he was during the HOTM affair. Throwing titles away, and focusing on the characters, I would say that WB Hulk would have certainly given Zeus a better fight than the Hulk that got trounced.. Again I must clarify, that in no way am i saying that the Hulk would beat Zeus just so we are clear on that.

5. Again I believe that you are hanging on to titles, and those titles have made your mind up for you, without the evidence to back it up. Hey, I can ask you if you believe that a Honda Civic could dust a Porche 911, and you would likely say no. But if I said that the Honda was modified, and had a lighter chassis what would you say then?

DarkOdin

Originally posted by carver9
Lolololhahahahahaha, Zeus didn't fight WBH...he fought a holding back Hulk. If you read the quote i said Hulk not WBH but then i again we all know you don't read anything that has to do pretaining to comics you jsut post nonsense cool

DarkOdin

Originally posted by Stoic
Okay you know what I get when I read what you just wrote? This is not an insult, or a means of taking a cheap shot, but I have to dismantle your post in order to get a clear picture here.

1. You are correct in your view. We had no idea how much power Thor hit the shield with, but we do know that he hit it with enough force to cause the shield to rumple. This is the amount of collateral damage that was caused.

2. You're opinion could easily be wrong, after all WB Hulk hit and from my perspective survived a collision that took out an unknown amount of real estate. Even though he caused half of the damage, we have yet to know if it was more damage than a planet and a moon. This as we know was from an impact that was not directed at the planet/s or moon/s. Thor's hit should have vaporized Ironman who happened to be on the battle filed if he hit him with the amount of force that was being generated by Betty and the Hulk in the Dark Dimension. Tell me if I exaggerated in any way here. Ironman would have never survived an impact that turned Fin Fang Foom to dust, and those were just shock waves.

3. I want you to be open minded here, and attempt to move away from the title of Sky Father, and also come to the reality, that I have not placed the Hulk on Odin's level, but that Odin can generate far above the amount of power that it would take to destroy the shield. Again, a title should never be cause to say who can do what. Feats are what we should focus on, and the I can easily say that WB Hulk was outputting more force than Thor was when he rumpled America's Shield. This is if we go solely on the power stunts themselves, and the after effects that they left in their wake.

4. I will not say that WB Hulk would defeat Zeus, but I will say that the Hulk that Zeus destroyed was not on the level that he was during the HOTM affair. Throwing titles away, and focusing on the characters, I would say that WB Hulk would have certainly given Zeus a better fight than the Hulk that got trounced.. Again I must clarify, that in no way am i saying that the Hulk would beat Zeus just so we are clear on that.

5. Again I believe that you are hanging on to titles, and those titles have made your mind up for you, without the evidence to back it up. Hey, I can ask you if you believe that a Honda Civic could dust a Porche 911, and you would likely say no. But if I said that the Honda was modified, and had a lighter chassis what would you say then?

In regards to 1 and 2 and the collaterial damage I don't think we could compare the two. The shield itseld absorbs the energy that is impacted on it . So if WBH hit the shield all the force he did in example 2 it would be directed at the sheild and you would see no collaterial damaged.

As for Ironman being on the battle field it would be fair to say Thor didn't hit him as hard as he would hit cap's sheild based on the fact Thor knows or at least thought he know Capt sheild coudl take the beating.

3. We have seen weakened King Thor also knock the head of the destoyer with Mjolnir. Something i doubt WBH could do.

4. Understood but... wouldn it not be fair to say Zeus was hardly trying and if Zeus was pissed and amped himself more i think we would have the same outcome even if it was WBH.

5. Good example, however it is not the titles that hold me to my stance but the on panel feats the skyfathers have done not using all their power. lets take your 911 and your civic example. stock civic runs 14.9 in the 1/4 mile then you mod it and it runs 13.0 flat. However the 911 runs 12.0 at half throttle and starting in 2nd gear.

Sin I AM

Originally posted by Stoic
WW Hulk beat Bob, and the Hulk stated on panel that he was holding back the entire time in NYC. If while holding back he could beat the Sentry, then what would he do against the Sentry if he was going all out. You understand?

yea but i take that character statements with a grain of salt after witnessing the outcome. they were both depowered imo and banner got lucky imo

Stoic

Originally posted by DarkOdin
In regards to 1 and 2 and the collaterial damage I don't think we could compare the two. The shield itseld absorbs the energy that is impacted on it . So if WBH hit the shield all the force he did in example 2 it would be directed at the sheild and you would see no collaterial damaged.

As for Ironman being on the battle field it would be fair to say Thor didn't hit him as hard as he would hit cap's sheild based on the fact Thor knows or at least thought he know Capt sheild coudl take the beating.

3. We have seen weakened King Thor also knock the head of the destoyer with Mjolnir. Something i doubt WBH could do.

4. Understood but... wouldn it not be fair to say Zeus was hardly trying and if Zeus was pissed and amped himself more i think we would have the same outcome even if it was WBH.

5. Good example, however it is not the titles that hold me to my stance but the on panel feats the skyfathers have done not using all their power. lets take your 911 and your civic example. stock civic runs 14.9 in the 1/4 mile then you mod it and it runs 13.0 flat. However the 911 runs 12.0 at half throttle and starting in 2nd gear.

1. This is true, because it is Vibranium, and now mixed with Uru. So it would take the impact.

2. Let's take what Thor did to the Hulk, and remember that the Hulk that he beat was the same one that was unable to put Bi-Beast down on his own, and was given severe trouble by Wonder Man. Bi-Beast was turned to dust, and he wasn't even directly hit.

3. Again we have no idea how much power WB Hulk was at, and nowhere did it ever state that he was at the cap of his strength amplifications. We do know however that he was seen later after the collision toting more power than he had when the impact occurred in the Dark Dimension. Thor at the time when he rumpled the shield was also not using the Odin Force at the same level that Odin could use it, as he was inept at its usage.

4. The outcome would have been the same yes, but, it would have took longer, and the damage would have been far greater. The Hulk however admits to holding back, because of the casualty rate, and the idea behind Banner is that he is not a murderous cretin. Zeus on the other hand does not see mortals in the same light. He would have won, but like i said, it would have taken more to win.

5. Gotcha.

Stoic

Originally posted by Sin I AM
yea but i take that character statements with a grain of salt after witnessing the outcome. they were both depowered imo and banner got lucky imo

Retcons happen all of the time, and the damage caused in the Dark Dimension pretty much does away with the idea that he wasn't holding back. In comparison, I'd say that he held back significantly. Sentry did nothing to make me believe that he was ever close to the level that WB Hulk was. Remember I said Sentry, not Void.

carver9

Originally posted by Sin I AM
yea but i take that character statements with a grain of salt after witnessing the outcome. they were both depowered imo and banner got lucky imo

Sentry was depowered, not Hulk.

Horrificus

2 questions:

1. Who HAS damaged the shield in the past?

2. And, HOW did they do it?

Sin I AM

Originally posted by carver9
Sentry was depowered, not Hulk.

did u read WWH? they both reverted back to human form....depowered

Originally posted by Stoic
Retcons happen all of the time, and the damage caused in the Dark Dimension pretty much does away with the idea that he wasn't holding back. In comparison, I'd say that he held back significantly. Sentry did nothing to make me believe that he was ever close to the level that WB Hulk was. Remember I said Sentry, not Void.

So you belive that based off a completely different situation that was based off a wish that hulk was holding back? The dark dimension feat has no revelance in your argument

JakeTheBank

Originally posted by Horrificus
2 questions:

1. Who HAS damaged the shield in the past?

2. And, HOW did they do it?

IIRC:

Molecule Man via matter manipulation, Thanos via Infinity Gauntlet's matter/reality warping, King Thor via denting the shield with Mjolnir + the Odin Force, King Thor via burning through it with the Odin Force, the Serpent via shattering it with his bare hands likely through the "Serpent Force" or whatever energies he was tapping into.

Galan007

^ Doom /w/ Beyonder's power as well.

The only instance that makes me think WBH could damage the shield in some way/shape/form is the fact that KT dented it with a strike from Mjolnir. IIRC, it wasn't stated/depicted that anything aside from sheer brute force went into the strike (ie. it didn't seem like he empowered Mjolnir with the OF.)

Horrificus

Well, as far as I can see it, Galan and Jake hit the nail on the head.

It comes down to :

1. Did King Thor use the Odin Force with his own power, when he damaged the shield?

...if the Odin Force DID have a part to play in damaging the shield...

2. Is ANY incarnation of the Hulk as powerful as King Thor + Odin Force?

DarkOdin

Originally posted by Galan007
^ Doom /w/ Beyonder's power as well.

The only instance that makes me think WBH could damage the shield in some way/shape/form is the fact that KT dented it with a strike from Mjolnir. IIRC, it wasn't stated/depicted that anything aside from sheer brute force went into the strike (ie. it didn't seem like he empowered Mjolnir with the OF.) I would need to double check but i think Mjolnir was glowing red when Thor was attacking. Cap which would show he was using the Odinpower

psycho gundam

Originally posted by Sin I AM
did u read WWH? they both reverted back to human form....depowered horrible "logic'

DarkOdin

Originally posted by Stoic
Ok so by your own admission, Thor was not exactly using as much of the Odin Force as Odin would be, right?

This is the incorrect part. King Thor know how to amp he attacks and use energy blast just as good as Odin. However is wasn't aware how to use the Odinpower for other things creating world's bring people back to life the more exotic abilites of the Odin power. He also wasn't aware how how strong the Odinpower was more likely to put too much power into his blows then to hold back. Given the Odinpower feats I think we could all argue it wouldn't take all of the odinpower to dent the sheild heck a little eye beam action vaporised it.

So if the Odinpower can vaporise it on its own

the Mjolnir blow was weaker in comparsion.

But either IMO is still more the WBH has shown IMO

DarkOdin

Originally posted by DarkOdin
I would need to double check but i think Mjolnir was glowing red when Thor was attacking. Cap which would show he was using the Odinpower it was too late to edit....Anyway Looking back to the arc Thor just defeated Iron Man in the Thor bust armor. He was absorbing the power Iron was using to power the armor at the time . We see a red glow coming out of Iron man as Thor says this. Then we see Thor attack Cap and dent the sheild the same glow of the power being drained from Ironman suit we see coming out of Mjolnir's swing even after he hits Cap. KNow can anyone confirm that Iron man was using the Odinpower to power his armor???

Sin I AM

Originally posted by psycho gundam
horrible "logic'

so they werent reverted back to human form?

Stoic

Originally posted by DarkOdin
it was too late to edit....Anyway Looking back to the arc Thor just defeated Iron Man in the Thor bust armor. He was absorbing the power Iron was using to power the armor at the time . We see a red glow coming out of Iron man as Thor says this. Then we see Thor attack Cap and dent the sheild the same glow of the power being drained from Ironman suit we see coming out of Mjolnir's swing even after he hits Cap. KNow can anyone confirm that Iron man was using the Odinpower to power his armor???

How would Ironman possess the Odin Force? I am really doubting this route, and thinking that outside of the material used to create the Thor Buster armor, that Stark used the same means to power the suit that he does in his other suits. Are you saying that the power that Ironman had going for him in the Thor Buster even came close to rivaling the power that WB Hulk was toting?

ctsketch

Originally posted by Stoic
How would Ironman possess the Odin Force? I am really doubting this route, and thinking that outside of the material used to create the Thor Buster armor, that Stark used the same means to power the suit that he does in his other suits. Are you saying that the power that Ironman had going for him in the Thor Buster even came close to rivaling the power that WB Hulk was toting?

Iron man was using an Asgardian gem that Thor gave him to power the suit no?

Stoic

Originally posted by ctsketch
Iron man was using an Asgardian gem that Thor gave him to power the suit no?

Oh yeah forgot about that. Still aside from what it had within it, did it impress upon you that it was putting out more power than the Hulk was? This is what I have been saying all along, titles, and fancy looking things need to be taken apart and analyzed for what they were capable of, and what they had done. I have my doubts (huge doubts) that WB Hulk would shatter the shield, but I do believe that he could rumple it. It took him less than 10 seconds according to on panel evidence to ramp up enough strength to over power an explosion that would have turned Sakaar into the same mess that Krypton looked like.

This thread gives him 20 minutes if I am correct? That shield is going to be rumpled at the very least.

DarkOdin

Originally posted by ctsketch
Iron man was using an Asgardian gem that Thor gave him to power the suit no? Correct I just don't remember it has been so long however if i remember right. Thor created the Gems with the Odinpower then stark used 1 of the gems to power the Thorbuster armor which also was being further powered by absorbing/feeding of the Odinpower as the battle was wage if i remember correct.

Stoic

Originally posted by DarkOdin
Correct I just don't remember it has been so long however if i remember right. Thor created the Gems with the Odinpower then stark used 1 of the gems to power the Thorbuster armor which also was being further powered by absorbing/feeding of the Odinpower as the battle was wage if i remember correct.

None of that really matters, as Thor reached the Shields damage threshold and surpassed it. The Hulk in world breaking mode, and given 20 minutes to amplify his strength would surpass it as well. it did not take him and Betty 20 minutes to turn a planet into vapor.

DarkOdin

Originally posted by Stoic
None of that really matters, as Thor reached the Shields damage threshold and surpassed it. The Hulk in world breaking mode, and given 20 minutes to amplify his strength would surpass it as well. it did not take him and Betty 20 minutes to turn a planet into vapor. Ya but honestly a planet's durability is way less then the shield heck Gladaitor and BRB wrecked planets and i don't see either of them hurting the shield.

Horrificus

Originally posted by DarkOdin
Ya but honestly a planet's durability is way less then the shield heck Gladaitor and BRB wrecked planets and i don't see either of them hurting the shield. Plus, "What if?" rule should apply. It was another dimension. For all we know, the objects in that dimension were made out of a "Marshmallow Base".

Should not be applied to 616 real-space.

carver9

Originally posted by DarkOdin
Ya but honestly a planet's durability is way less then the shield heck Gladaitor and BRB wrecked planets and i don't see either of them hurting the shield.

Hulk destroyed it in a different more impressive matter while taking out one being that defeated Surfer, another being that over powered Thor and another being that stalemated/defeated Savage Hulk. Can't get any clearer than this. Especially him taking out a Fing Fang Foom that Doctor Strange couldn't stop. He killed all of these people, a planet and two moons without even touching them...hell, the shockwaves from Hulks punches was sending these high tier being flying.

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Marvel%20Comics/Hulks%20limits/IncredibleHulks634021.jpg

Can't get any clearer than this. Hulk was in a different tier all together.

carver9

Originally posted by Horrificus
Plus, "What if?" rule should apply. It was another dimension. For all we know, the objects in that dimension were made out of a "Marshmallow Base".

Should not be applied to 616 real-space.

Naah, its a real planet...stated on panel too many times as being a planet of significant size.

carver9

By the way, Bill destroyed a planetoid and Gladiator had to repeatedly punch the planet to destroy it. Hulk didn't even have to lay a glove on the planet to destroy it.

Horrificus

Originally posted by carver9
Hulk destroyed it in a different more impressive matter while taking out one being that defeated Surfer, another being that over powered Thor and another being that stalemated/defeated Savage Hulk. Can't get any clearer than this. Especially him taking out a Fing Fang Foom that Doctor Strange couldn't stop. He killed all of these people, a planet and two moons without even touching them...hell, the shockwaves from Hulks punches was sending these high tier being flying.

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Marvel%20Comics/Hulks%20limits/IncredibleHulks634021.jpg

Can't get any clearer than this. Hulk was in a different tier all together. Did anybody actually check, to see if those characters were the real deal, or just regular people wearing a bibeast and wendigo costume? roll eyes (sarcastic)

Come on Carver. That's funny!

Hulk vs Cap´s Shield