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Marvel Odin

vs

Firestorm
Martian Manhunter
Maxima
Orion
Captain Atom
Hal Jordan
Superman
Sodam Yat Ion
Steel
The Flash
Power Girl
Super Girl (Current)
Hawk Man with Claw of Horus
Hawk girl

No BFR

They get wrecked. Marvel Skyfathers are basically just under high end cosmics in terms of raw power.

Disregarding weakness exploitation, SYI would be the toughest opponent here. This is actually a tough team, and Superman by himself has taken on people as tough as Odin (not saying Superman would beat Odin one on one....so please no one put words in my mouth). But as a team, this would be a tough one.

Id go team personally, as I think theyd just overpower Odin.

Odin stomps.

Nah, Superman, Orion and SYI are near equals to Darkseid, Darkseid is a rough equal to Thanos, who fought Odin solo and did quite well. Now this is a team with all 3 of them on it, plus guys like Hal, Flash, Jonn, Captain Atom, Super and Power Girl, and several others. This team has it in power over Odin, no doubt about it.

Is this Silver Age Odin?

Originally posted by Glorificus
Odin stomps.

There is no way this is a stomp.

Odin slapped the Surfer out like a light. I don't see him losing here. Also was there any evidence to suggest that Odin was going all out during B&T? Seeing as how Odin could get into each of their minds like he did to Galactus, and none of these guys have Galactus' level of psi defenses or power, they are all mind raped on the spot, and set afloat in the land of catatonia.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
Disregarding weakness exploitation, SYI would be the toughest opponent here. This is actually a tough team, and Superman by himself has taken on people as tough as Odin (not saying Superman would beat Odin one on one....so please no one put words in my mouth). But as a team, this would be a tough one.

Are you comparing Darkseid to Odin?

Originally posted by Stoic
Odin slapped the Surfer out like a light. I don't see him losing here. Also was there any evidence to suggest that Odin was going all out during B&T? Seeing as how Odin could get into each of their minds like he did to Galactus, and none of these guys have Galactus' level of psi defenses or power, they are all mind raped on the spot, and set afloat in the land of catatonia.

I don't know it this is Galactus level, but is pretty high IMO

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/POWER%20DISPLAY%20VS%20PSIONICS/th_AOS623VSPSI.jpg, http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/POWER%20DISPLAY%20VS%20PSIONICS/th_AOS623VSPSI2.jpg, http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/POWER%20DISPLAY%20VS%20PSIONICS/th_AOS617GETSIMPSOUTOFHISHEAD.jpg, http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/POWER%20DISPLAY%20VS%20PSIONICS/th_AOS617GETSIMPSOUTOFHISHEAD2.jpg, http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/POWER%20DISPLAY%20VS%20PSIONICS/th_AdventuresOfSuperman617p15.jpg

Odin beats the crap out of the team.

Most of the team will get ko'd by the first blast that hits them.

Originally posted by biensalsa
I don't know it this is Galactus level, but is pretty high IMO

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/POWER%20DISPLAY%20VS%20PSIONICS/th_AOS623VSPSI.jpg, http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/POWER%20DISPLAY%20VS%20PSIONICS/th_AOS623VSPSI2.jpg, http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/POWER%20DISPLAY%20VS%20PSIONICS/th_AOS617GETSIMPSOUTOFHISHEAD.jpg, http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/POWER%20DISPLAY%20VS%20PSIONICS/th_AOS617GETSIMPSOUTOFHISHEAD2.jpg, http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/POWER%20DISPLAY%20VS%20PSIONICS/th_AdventuresOfSuperman617p15.jpg


That's great, but Odin is simply above all of these guys. He wouldn't even really have to get physical with them to win this, if he broke out his best psi assault laced with his best magical attacks. They are pretty much little league to Odin. What Darksed himself said, placed him in the high Herald tier. He said that Superman was a peer to him. It pretty much placed him right there in that light in my eyes.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Most of the team will get ko'd by the first blast that hits them.

^ Truth.

Originally posted by Stoic
That's great, but Odin is simply above all of these guys. He wouldn't even really have to get physical with them to win this, if he broke out his best psi assault laced with his best magical attacks. They are pretty much little league to Odin. What Darksed himself said, placed him in the high Herald tier. He said that Superman was a peer to him. It pretty much placed him right there in that light in my eyes.

I will believe that resisting a Myx twins probe is pretty high.

Though I will say this is not a stomp unless We are talking about Silver Age Odin.

By hierarchy Odin should win, but I have seen a few top tier JLA members taxing a reborn Synnar

Originally posted by biensalsa
I will believe that resisting a Myx twins probe is pretty high.

Though I will say this is not a stomp unless We are talking about Silver Age Odin.

By hierarchy Odin should win, but I have seen a few top tier JLA members taxing a reborn Synnar


You mean Hardcore Station Synnar? They really didn't do much to him to be honest. He also fought them in a way that Odin would not need to. Odin doesn't even have to allow them to touch him, while he could flood the field with magic, and psi assaults making them believe whatever he wills them to. Odin could pretty much take Thor apart like a grown man could take apart a 3 year old.

Originally posted by Stoic
You mean Hardcore Station Synnar? They really didn't do much to him to be honest. He also fought them in a way that Odin would not need to. Odin doesn't even have to allow them to touch him, while he could flood the field with magic, and psi assaults making them believe whatever he wills them to. Odin could pretty much take Thor apart like a grown man could take apart a 3 year old.

And I believe Odin should win, but saying a stomp is too much

If Odin can casually one shot elite high heralds such as the Silver Surfer without going all out or invoking his plethora of abilities beyond energy projection, how is this not a stomp?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
If Odin can casually one shot elite high heralds such as the Silver Surfer without going all out or invoking his plethora of abilities beyond energy projection, how is this not a stomp?

Because while He is one shooting one character others can attack.

What are the properties of the Hawks nth arsenal?

Originally posted by biensalsa
Because while He is one shooting one character others can attack.

What are the properties of the Hawks nth arsenal?

What is stopping Odin from using larger blasts so that he hits more than one charcater at a time?

Originally posted by Silent Master
What is stopping Odin from using larger blasts so that he hits more than one charcater at a time?

So, Odin is going all out silver age style?

This is why I asked if it was Silver Age Odin

Do you think I'm going to argue against a Galaxy buster attack?

Bronze and Modern Age Odin are well beyond herald class beings as well, though. He doesn't need to be at his galaxy busting or multiverse shaking levels to win this.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Bronze and Modern Age Odin are well beyond herald class beings as well, though. He doesn't need to be at his galaxy busting or multiverse shaking levels to win this.

I'm taking this as portrayed in his fight with Thanos, if He is fighting like that is not a stomp.

If he is galaxy busting then never mind.

I never said He will not win, I just disputing the stomp part if is not Galaxy busting silver age portrayal of Odin.

Fair enough, but based on Odin's feats, he doesn't need to galaxy bust to stomp.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Fair enough, but based on Odin's feats, he doesn't need to galaxy bust to stomp.


Based on feats Team can challenge Odin

Originally posted by biensalsa
I'm taking this as portrayed in his fight with Thanos, if He is fighting like that is not a stomp.

If he is galaxy busting then never mind.

I never said He will not win, I just disputing the stomp part if is not Galaxy busting silver age portrayal of Odin.

The Thanos fight is where he tanked a combined blast from Thanos&Surfer, then ko'd the Surfer with a single blast.

Originally posted by Silent Master
The Thanos fight is where he tanked a combined blast from Thanos&Surfer, then ko'd the Surfer with a single blast.

So Odin is using single blast to stop team or is He galaxy busting?

If he wanted to kill them all without wasting time, he could just AOE the area with a galaxy-busting blast without batting an eye.

If he wanted to prolong the fight for some reason and toy with them, he could do single blasts, mess with space-time, transmutations, mind-rape them, etc. any number of things. But I don't think it's in his character to be sadistic like that...

Originally posted by Glorificus
If he wanted to kill them all without wasting time, he could just AOE the area with a galaxy-busting blast without batting an eye.

If he wanted to prolong the fight for some reason and toy with them, he could do single blasts, mess with time, mind-rape them, etc. any number of things. But I don't think it's in his character to be sadistic like that...


Lol, let's make the fight interesting

Originally posted by biensalsa
So Odin is using single blast to stop team or is He galaxy busting?

Why does it matter, even the fight you're talking about showed that Odin can tank hits from high end heralds and then one-shot them.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Why does it matter, even the fight you're talking about showed that Odin can tank hits from high end heralds and then one-shot them.

Nth metal???

Originally posted by biensalsa
Nth metal???

What about it?

Originally posted by Silent Master
What about it?


Let me see based on feats We put SM and Orion pulling this:

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/INSANE%20FEATS/DEFEATS%20SIVAA/th_NewGods11-04SUPERMANANDORIONDEFEATSIVAA2.jpg

MMH this:

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/Super%20vision/ th_jlascarymonsters6kebbin17ECOLOGICALDISASTERTOKI
LLAPLANET.jpg

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/Super%20vision/ th_jlascarymonsters6kebbin18ECOLOGICALDISASTERTOKI
LLAPLANET.jpg

After He got hit by Nth metal, I believe it will tax him

And remember I said tax him, by no means is defeating him.

90-95% of the people in this fight, including those armed with Nth metal don't have the durability to withstand even one blast.

Originally posted by Silent Master
90-95% of the people in this fight, including those armed with Nth metal don't have the durability to withstand even one blast.

Pardon me but Nth metal disrupts magic and some others can become intangible while some other can move at super speed.

So if he is picking one by one is not a stomp, if He goes Galaxy busting then it is.

Oh and one is a character who challenged a guy who needed a guardian kamikaze attack to be stopped.

Originally posted by biensalsa
Pardon me but Nth metal disrupts magic and some others can become intangible while some other can move at super speed.

So if he is picking one by one is not a stomp, if He goes Galaxy busting then it is.

What is stopping Odin from using AOE attacks capable of one-shotting high end heralds?

Captain Atom Quantum Field solos

Originally posted by Silent Master
What is stopping Odin from using AOE attacks capable of one-shotting high end heralds?

You see, what is the scenario? Galaxy busting? or this?

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/221/warlockandtheinfinitywatch25bl1.jpg/

Odin is confirming Thanos is putting up a fight

Last time I check Darkseid is about the same.

Now throw in a guy who challenges a Guardian of the Universe

A guy who challenges Darkseid

Characters wearing magic disrupting weaponry

Speedsters and others and We have a fight.

I don't think they will win, but by the looks of this portrayal is not a stomp.

Now if We go galaxy busting then is a stomp

Odin put Surfrer down in one hit, Superman at best will last two hits before he's taking a dirt nap.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Odin put Surfrer down in one hit, Superman at best will last two hits before he's taking a dirt nap.


And He wakes up while Odin is busy fighting Orion and MMH or ION???

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/252/warlockandtheinfinitywatch25bl2.jpg/

Odin won't be busy fighting them, because they can't take more than one hit.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Odin won't be busy fighting them, because they can't take more than one hit.

Who can't take more than one hit?

Firestorm phases
Martian Manhunter phases
Maxima out maybe
Orion stands
Captain Atom stands
Hal Jordan stands
Superman stands
Sodam Yat Ion stands
Steel out
The Flash phases or moves
Power Girl out maybe
Super Girl (Current) out maybe
Hawk Man with Claw of Horus nth metal
Hawk girl nth metal

I do not really know what is the point?
You want this to be a stomp?
I already told you it is if he goes galaxy busting silver age style, other wise team looses but in no manner is a stomp

It's already a stomp, Like I've already said before 90-95% of the team is going to be ko'd by the first blast that hits them, the rest wont make it past the second. and seeing as Mjolnir can effect phased people, I see no reason why Gungnir wouldn't also effect them.

After all, they were enchanted by the same person

Originally posted by biensalsa
You see, what is the scenario? Galaxy busting? or this?

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/221/warlockandtheinfinitywatch25bl1.jpg/

Odin is confirming Thanos is putting up a fight

Last time I check Darkseid is about the same.

Now throw in a guy who challenges a Guardian of the Universe

A guy who challenges Darkseid

Characters wearing magic disrupting weaponry

Speedsters and others and We have a fight.

I don't think they will win, but by the looks of this portrayal is not a stomp.

Now if We go galaxy busting then is a stomp

Darkseid isn't in the same league when you bring up defeats against top tiers like Superman and Orion. This is seen as bad showing for Darkseid, especially against Superman. This is because others in the same weight class, hero or villain, has given Superman a fight or beaten him. Superman shouldn't be able to defeat Darkseid, yet he does. Surfer and Thor, both with feats and showings similar to Orion and Superman, have been wrecked by Odin and Thanos. There are few instances where Thanos is beaten by either. Thanos steamrolls over Thor, Surfer, Drax, and all top tiers he's met. If Darkseid is Thanos level like everyone believes he is, than those loses against top tiers would be considered PIS and dismissed in forum debates.

Further, Odin was not in moved off his feet by anything Thanos dished out. He was harmed in no way. The fight was a slap down of Thanos who kept getting up. Both Drax and Surfer were slap down by one shots. Basically, top tier guys on the level of this team were getting one shotted. The same Thanos who nearly killed Surfer in previous showings could not even move or harm Odin. The same Thanos would tanked Surfer's attack was getting blasted around by Odin.

The team is getting stomped because Odin is superior to Thanos, who is superior to top tiers. Odin is also a better fighter than most of these guys. He is far more versatile than any of them with his magic. Ask yourself this, would Thor, Surfer, or Drax not be able to take atleast 50/50 win against any member of the DC team? Odin has casually one-shotted Annihilus, who even Thor could not defeat.

Captain atom enters quantum field and destroys the universe.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Captain atom enters quantum field and destroys the universe.

In some showings, Odin has been able to see into the future. Odin teleports himself back in time to avoid this and attacks Atom before Atom has a chance to do this.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
In some showings, Odin has been able to see into the future. Odin teleports himself back in time to avoid this and attacks Atom before Atom has a chance to do this.
Self-bfr from battle and odin looses. I didn't know odin has prep in this thread.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Self-bfr from battle and odin looses. I didn't know odin has prep in this thread.

He's still in the battle field, he just moved back in time before Atom decides to pull off that attack.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
He's still in the battle field, he just moved back in time before Atom decides to pull off that attack.
http://www.comicbookresources.com/assets/images/preview/ca0a615i8485/prv8485_pg8.jpg

Originally posted by carver9
Are you comparing Darkseid to Odin?

Id personally say Darkseid isnt THAT much below Odin, yeah.

Originally posted by DTM
Id personally say Darkseid isnt THAT much below Odin, yeah.

If he's having problems with top tiers like Superman, then he's a match and Odin is the sun.

Originally posted by Silent Master
If he's having problems with top tiers like Superman, then he's a match and Odin is the sun.
Superman creates problems for anyone. FC darkseid is above the likes of odin.

Not even close to how I see it, but hey I seem to be in the minority here.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Superman creates problems for anyone. FC darkseid is above the likes of odin.

Odin would need to be having a bad day for Superman to last longer than a single hit.

Originally posted by abhilegend
http://www.comicbookresources.com/assets/images/preview/ca0a615i8485/prv8485_pg8.jpg

He's moved people across time and space with a gesture. Sent Gladiator back into the future with a gesture. He even knew of Gladiator's mission because he can see into the future. For story sake it says he can't control time but he's done it before. Even a weaker mage like Loki have some power over time. Nice scan, but that's no different than a character saying one thing and doing another. Thanos says he wanted to avoid to confrontation with Hulk but beats Hulk silly and laughs at both Hulk and Drax while doing so.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
He's moved people across time and space with a gesture. Sent Gladiator back into the future with a gesture. He even knew of Gladiator's mission because he can see into the future. For story sake it says he can't control time but he's done it before. Even a weaker mage like Loki have some power over time. Nice scan, but that's no different than a character saying one thing and doing another. Thanos says he wanted to avoid to confrontation with Hulk but beats Hulk silly and laughs at both Hulk and Drax while doing so.
He also busted galaxies and now needs to prep to destroy earth. I don't see any problem with that. Characters aren't always at the same level of power.

If you added Swamp Thing to the DC side would that even the fight out more?

Originally posted by abhilegend
http://www.comicbookresources.com/assets/images/preview/ca0a615i8485/prv8485_pg8.jpg

Ah this Fear Itself scene again Odin has been known to stop time.He stopped time when Loki freed Surtur and Skaag and transported an entire populance in a dimension.Here's a 1960's Thor cartoon which is based in Journey Into Mystery#104.

XT31C_QWS2g&feature=relmfu

As for this Fear Itself scene, remember that the Serpent is an Asgardian Skyfather level being.Even if Odin tried to stop time, the Serpent will be immune to it just like Surtur and Skaag.The Serpent could just undo that time stop or the Serpent's Thor-like Minions would still do what they were set out to do.

This team destroys Odin... They faced worse and some of them fought against Skyfatherbeings one on one for some time.
Odin is good but a bit overrated, and it becomes a little bit ridiculous...
How many Trans level chars does it take to take down a Skyfather like Odin? How many high Heralds?
Some "high Heralds" like Thor, SS or Superman have trans or skyfather feats under their belt, at their best. As for Odin oneshooting SS, it's more like a low feat for SS, really.

As for Darkseid, True Darkseid >= Odin.
Odin > Thanos = (better)Darkseid avatar.

m2c

This team isn't "destroying" Odin. And that scan from Fear Itself, iirc, was originally posted in some thread as an attempt to discredit or other prove that Odin can't effect time...even though he's done it multiple times in the past under various writers and has even been recently depicted in doing so through flashbacks.

Like I said before, Odin doesn't need to enter "galaxy busting" mode or "shaking the multiverse" mode to beat this team. He's beyond high heralds, and easily at that. His simple blasts put out beings such as Annihilus, Silver Surfer, or Thor without much effort. Throwing a bunch of them at him would likely just encourage him to just say "Phuck it", which would make things worse.

^you opinion. Mine differs.


So how many Trans beings does it take to defeat a Skyfather and how many Heralds?

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
^you opinion. Mine differs.


So how many Trans beings does it take to defeat a Skyfather and how many Heralds?

Opinion based off of on panel evidence.

Depends on the beings in question. You'll never get a bonafide "It takes x amount of High Heralds to beat Skyfather _________" type answer. It doesn't work that way like an across the board mathematical equation.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Opinion based off of on panel evidence.

Depends on the beings in question. You'll never get a bonafide "It takes x amount of High Heralds to beat Skyfather _________" type answer. It doesn't work that way like an across the board mathematical equation.

An Opinion based on the on panel showing of ONE side and ignoring the showings of the other side. So, sorry if it isn't worth that much imo.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
An Opinion based on the on panel showing of ONE side and ignoring the showings of the other side. So, sorry if it isn't worth that much imo.

I'm not ignoring the showings of the other side.

Fact of the matter is that Odin is well above High Heralds, period. He literally expends no effort in casting them aside, BFRing them with a gesture, physically one upping them, mindraping them, stripping them of power, etc. And a lot of that he does while weakened. Throwing a bunch of heralds at him doesn't really do much to improve those odds. Do heralds have good showings against Skyfather and beyond beings? Of course they do, usually in the form of high showings and/or when holding nothing back. Of course, by that same token, Odin's high end and no holding back feats are likewise ridiculous and include the previously mentioned feats of busting galaxies and shaking the multiverse.

So, again, I'm not sure if you're looking for a definite answer to the query "How many heralds does it take to beat a Skyfather" because it's not as simple as just throwing a bunch of them at him till he gets overwhelmed.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I'm not ignoring the showings of the other side.

Fact of the matter is that Odin is well above High Heralds, period. He literally expends no effort in casting them aside, BFRing them with a gesture, physically one upping them, mindraping them, stripping them of power, etc. And a lot of that he does while weakened. Throwing a bunch of heralds at him doesn't really do much to improve those odds. Do heralds have good showings against Skyfather and beyond beings? Of course they do, usually in the form of high showings and/or when holding nothing back. Of course, by that same token, Odin's high end and no holding back feats are likewise ridiculous and include the previously mentioned feats of busting galaxies and shaking the multiverse.

So, again, I'm not sure if you're looking for a definite answer to the query "How many heralds does it take to beat a Skyfather" because it's not as simple as just throwing a bunch of them at him till he gets overwhelmed.

But you do.

He is, but those aren't your normal High Heralds. And they tanked worse then a single blast from Odin... stop kidding yourself. Odin isn't just oneshooting someone like Orion, Superman or Hal Jordan at their best... In a comic I can even see Hal using a Kronabuster attack to finish Odin vin.

I'm searching for reason behind this overrationg of Skyfathers in general and Odin in particular... nothing else. But I won't find it I guess.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
But you do.

He is, but those aren't your normal High Heralds. And they tanked worse then a single blast from Odin... stop kidding yourself. Odin isn't just oneshooting someone like Orion, Superman or Hal Jordan at their best... In a comic I can even see Hal using a Kronabuster attack to finish Odin vin.

I'm searching for reason behind this overrationg of Skyfathers in general and Odin in particular... nothing else. But I won't find it I guess.

...how?

Silver Surfer and Thor aren't normal high heralds? I, for one, don't think that just because Odin has shown the capability to easily get rid of them or treat them as non-threats that doesn't mean that Thor or Surfer were "jobbing" or let Odin beat them down. Because for all the talk of "heralds at their best can fight skyfathers and do well" that same line of logic applies to the skyfathers themselves. They survived worse that a single blast from Odin? Okay. Odin has crushed people way worse than a mere high herald being. baka At Odin's best, he's obliterating Orion, Superman, and Hal Jordan, all at the same time. Kronabuster has next to no relevance to begin with seeing as Odin isn't, well, y'know, Krona.

Not sure how they're overrated outside of you just claiming that they are and not willing to accept that by your own "at their best" line of logic, Odin is still above non holding back high heralds. So what specific instances come to mind that support overrating of Skyfathers and Odin in particular?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
...how?

Silver Surfer and Thor aren't normal high heralds? I, for one, don't think that just because Odin has shown the capability to easily get rid of them or treat them as non-threats that doesn't mean that Thor or Surfer were "jobbing" or let Odin beat them down. Because for all the talk of "heralds at their best can fight skyfathers and do well" that same line of logic applies to the skyfathers themselves. They survived worse that a single blast from Odin? Okay. Odin has crushed people way worse than a mere high herald being. baka At Odin's best, he's obliterating Orion, Superman, and Hal Jordan, all at the same time. Kronabuster has next to no relevance to begin with seeing as Odin isn't, well, y'know, Krona.

Not sure how they're overrated outside of you just claiming that they are and not willing to accept that by your own "at their best" line of logic, Odin is still above non holding back high heralds. So what specific instances come to mind that support overrating of Skyfathers and Odin in particular?

By simply putting them in the same ballpark.

No they aren't. But they were jobbing as they took far worse. Yes it does and going by both at their best he won't crush them bored. No he isn't except in your imagination. As for your Krona argumentation... Odin one shooting SS has next to no relevance, as well, y'know SS ain't Superman or Orion dur.

I have no problem to see a Skyfather or Trans being over a Herald or two, but a Team of some of the best who had feats worth of Trans or Skyfatherbeings themselves? Who even fought Skyfathers or Trans beings for some time? I'm not that delusional, sry Jake, I'm not willing to accept YOUR point of view, it lacks reasoning and facts.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
By simply putting them in the same ballpark.

No they aren't. But they were jobbing as they took far worse. Yes it does and going by both at their best he won't crush them bored. No he isn't except in your imagination. As for your Krona argumentation... Odin one shooting SS has next to no relevance, as well, y'know SS ain't Superman or Orion dur.

I have no problem to see a Skyfather or Trans being over a Herald or two, but a Team of some of the best who had feats worth of Trans or Skyfatherbeings themselves? Who even fought Skyfathers or Trans beings for some time? I'm not that delusional, sry Jake, I'm not willing to accept YOUR point of view, it lacks reasoning and facts.

What are you talking about? Are you saying I should put non-holding back high heralds in the same ballpark as a non-holding back skyfather?

How are they not "normal" high heralds? Are you saying they're elite high heralds or not elite or something else? Because just like Thor and Surfer represent the top of their respective class of power, so, too, does Odin. So, no, him being able to one shot them isn't them jobbing, not when its the normal depiction of power difference between them. So, yes, he would one shot the vast majority of this team, if we go by Odin's best, which you seem hesitant or refuse to be doing so. He's well above high heralds according to on panel evidence and the reality of the situation. Just saying that under the "at their best" clause they're in the same league as him doesn't cut it, because Odin at his best is as much above them as he is above them at "normal" depictions. You can't have it both ways. The Kronabuster has no relevance here as Odin isn't an other unremarkable Guardian of the Universe controlling Ion and other entities with a special safeguard implemented to protect him against a Lantern who would kill him. Hal having the willpower to breach through specific defenses/abilities =/= Hal having the means to one shot kill any character short of abstract.

Yeah, well, sorry, but I don't subscribe to the idea that if you just throw a bunch of heralds at a skyfather, the numbers game somehow makes it even, not when said skyfather repeatedly shows himself to be beyond high heralds while holding back or weakened. That's a terrible line of thought to apply, especially here. My reasoning doesn't lack reasoning and it sure as hell doesn't lack facts, either. If a high herald consistently shows the ability to be able to fight skyfathers to a draw or beat them, well, I guess they're not high heralds anymore, are they? Citing high end feats as the norm and as accurate representations of power while simultaneously making the argument that "Odin and skyfathers are overrated" (which you haven't elaborated on besides claiming that my stance isn't backed by reasoning or facts) does you no favor, especially when you don't take into account how your same approach to the team also works in Odin's favor.

To further elaborate, this idea that every time that Odin easily dismissed Thor or Silver Surfer or another herald being as an instance of them "jobbing" is pretty ridiculous. That's the consistent display of power difference between them and painting it as jobbing or PIS or anything but the norm of how such an encounter would go is disingenuous and completely inaccurate.

Do Thor/Surfer (and heralds in general) have better feats than being pawned by the All-Father? Sure. But you're seriously deluding yourself if you think Odin's best is being able to beat Thor down like a child or one shot Silver Surfer with little effort.

High end feats are high end feats for a reason, and they apply to skyfathers such as Odin just as much as they do the herald class of beings like Thor, Silver Surfer, Superman, and Green Lantern.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
What are you talking about? Are you saying I should put non-holding back high heralds in the same ballpark as a non-holding back skyfather?

How are they not "normal" high heralds? Are you saying they're elite high heralds or not elite or something else? Because just like Thor and Surfer represent the top of their respective class of power, so, too, does Odin. So, no, him being able to one shot them isn't them jobbing, not when its the normal depiction of power difference between them. So, yes, he would one shot the vast majority of this team, if we go by Odin's best, which you seem hesitant or refuse to be doing so. He's well above high heralds according to on panel evidence and the reality of the situation. Just saying that under the "at their best" clause they're in the same league as him doesn't cut it, because Odin at his best is as much above them as he is above them at "normal" depictions. You can't have it both ways. The Kronabuster has no relevance here as Odin isn't an other unremarkable Guardian of the Universe controlling Ion and other entities with a special safeguard implemented to protect him against a Lantern who would kill him. Hal having the willpower to breach through specific defenses/abilities =/= Hal having the means to one shot kill any character short of abstract.

Yeah, well, sorry, but I don't subscribe to the idea that if you just throw a bunch of heralds at a skyfather, the numbers game somehow makes it even, not when said skyfather repeatedly shows himself to be beyond high heralds while holding back or weakened. That's a terrible line of thought to apply, especially here. My reasoning doesn't lack reasoning and it sure as hell doesn't lack facts, either. If a high herald consistently shows the ability to be able to fight skyfathers to a draw or beat them, well, I guess they're not high heralds anymore, are they? Citing high end feats as the norm and as accurate representations of power while simultaneously making the argument that "Odin and skyfathers are overrated" (which you haven't elaborated on besides claiming that my stance isn't backed by reasoning or facts) does you no favor, especially when you don't take into account how your same approach to the team also works in Odin's favor. Originally posted by JakeTheBank
To further elaborate, this idea that every time that Odin easily dismissed Thor or Silver Surfer or another herald being as an instance of them "jobbing" is pretty ridiculous. That's the consistent display of power difference between them and painting it as jobbing or PIS or anything but the norm of how such an encounter would go is disingenuous and completely inaccurate.

Do Thor/Surfer (and heralds in general) have better feats than being pawned by the All-Father? Sure. But you're seriously deluding yourself if you think Odin's best is being able to beat Thor down like a child or one shot Silver Surfer with little effort.

High end feats are high end feats for a reason, and they apply to skyfathers such as Odin just as much as they do the herald class of beings like Thor, Silver Surfer, Superman, and Green Lantern.
Calm down jake.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Calm down jake.

I'm perfectly calm. I just (strongly) disagree with the line of logic Batman-Prime's using in support for the team as it completely contradicts what we see in comics the vast majority of the time.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
What are you talking about? Are you saying I should put non-holding back high heralds in the same ballpark as a non-holding back skyfather?

How are they not "normal" high heralds? Are you saying they're elite high heralds or not elite or something else? Because just like Thor and Surfer represent the top of their respective class of power, so, too, does Odin. So, no, him being able to one shot them isn't them jobbing, not when its the normal depiction of power difference between them. So, yes, he would one shot the vast majority of this team, if we go by Odin's best, which you seem hesitant or refuse to be doing so. He's well above high heralds according to on panel evidence and the reality of the situation. Just saying that under the "at their best" clause they're in the same league as him doesn't cut it, because Odin at his best is as much above them as he is above them at "normal" depictions. You can't have it both ways. The Kronabuster has no relevance here as Odin isn't an other unremarkable Guardian of the Universe controlling Ion and other entities with a special safeguard implemented to protect him against a Lantern who would kill him. Hal having the willpower to breach through specific defenses/abilities =/= Hal having the means to one shot kill any character short of abstract.

Yeah, well, sorry, but I don't subscribe to the idea that if you just throw a bunch of heralds at a skyfather, the numbers game somehow makes it even, not when said skyfather repeatedly shows himself to be beyond high heralds while holding back or weakened. That's a terrible line of thought to apply, especially here. My reasoning doesn't lack reasoning and it sure as hell doesn't lack facts, either. If a high herald consistently shows the ability to be able to fight skyfathers to a draw or beat them, well, I guess they're not high heralds anymore, are they? Citing high end feats as the norm and as accurate representations of power while simultaneously making the argument that "Odin and skyfathers are overrated" (which you haven't elaborated on besides claiming that my stance isn't backed by reasoning or facts) does you no favor, especially when you don't take into account how your same approach to the team also works in Odin's favor.

Keep it shorter, it's almost to long.

I'm saying that going by the feats of the Heralds listed and the feats of Odin, I don't see him oneshooting them.

By KMC they are high Heralds. Their feats put them, well, above imho. It's jobbing if they took worse from greater beings then Odin and were oneshooted by him, simple, really. And if it's now a vast majority we are making progress, at least. As for Krona, well he took down Galactus quite easy, where Odin, well headbutted himself for an ko. Hal having the willpower and a weapon based on willpower and the feats and intent to kill, it counts for nothing, yeah I forgot. They face him also one at a time, because they are polite...

Yeah, well, sorry, but I don't subscribe to the idea that if you just throw a skyfather (even Odin) against a number of some of the best high heralds, he gets an autowin, just because he is a Skyfather, not when said high heralds repeatedly showed themselves to be beyond high heralds while holding back or weakened. That's a terrible line of thought to apply, especially here.
So maybe we agree here. Some of the people on the list aren't high heralds then, rather Trans or low Skyfathers, and Odin loses. up
And yes, Skyfathers are overrated here, because they get the win based on their status and not because of their feats. Standard procedure.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Calm down jake.

uhuh

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I'm perfectly calm. I just (strongly) disagree with the line of logic Batman-Prime's using in support for the team as it completely contradicts what we see in comics the vast majority of the time.
What we get in comics that superman beats the crap out of any being, skyfathers be damned with his fists.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
uhuh
ahah

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Keep it shorter, it's almost to long.

I'm saying that going by the feats of the Heralds listed and the feats of Odin, I don't see him oneshooting them.

By KMC they are high Heralds. Their feats put them, well, above imho. It's jobbing if they took worse from greater beings then Odin and were oneshooted by him, simple, really. And if it's now a vast majority we are making progress, at least. As for Krona, well he took down Galactus quite easy, where Odin, well headbutted himself for an ko. Hal having the willpower and a weapon based on willpower and the feats and intent to kill, it counts for nothing, yeah I forgot. They face him also one at a time, because they are polite...

Yeah, well, sorry, but I don't subscribe to the idea that if you just throw a skyfather (even Odin) against a number of some of the best high heralds, he gets an autowin, just because he is a Skyfather, not when said high heralds repeatedly showed themselves to be beyond high heralds while holding back or weakened. That's a terrible line of thought to apply, especially here.
So maybe we agree here. Some of the people on the list aren't high heralds then, rather Trans or low Skyfathers, and Odin loses. up
And yes, Skyfathers are overrated here, because they get the win because of their status and not because of their feats. Standard procedure.

That's what she said. *zing*

Yeah, but going by the feats of Odin (the ones shown in comics), he actually...y'know...one-shots heralds. And he does it without exerting much effort or while weakened or some other circumstance that prevents him from going all out, in which case, he'd outright obliterate herald level beings.

Or they could be high end feats. Thor was once able to endure a barrage of blasts from multiple Celestials. Do I think that's the norm for Thor? Hell no, that's insane and it was clearly designed to be an epic heroic moment. That's what I'm getting at here. You can't pick out a handful to a dozen of good feats compare them to the overwhelming majority of feats under a character's history and just decide that everything else besides those high end feats was "jobbing" or "PIS". That doesn't even make a lick of sense. It's just as bad as trying to lowball a character by citing gas stations exploding or being mugged by Mexicans or falling down stairs or being shot and KOd with a sniper round; its just as inaccurate a portrayal of a character's overall formidability and capabilities albeit on the other far side of the spectrum.

Krona beating down Galactus? JLA/Avengers Krona =/= Krona from War of the Green Lanterns. That's common sense. And no, you can't arbitrarily decide that Hal can kill whomever just because of his willpower, which by its very nature, fluctuates depending on the situation at hand. No one's trying to lowball Hal here, so don't act like it.

Odin doesn't get an autowin because he's a skyfather. He wins because he's more powerful than anyone here and quite a few people here are virtually useless here against him. And that's based on feats and portrayals.

What gets me here is this.

Who here is Trans or Low Skyfather for one? And for another, where in the world do you get that Odin gets the win here because of his status and not his feats? Because I, alongside several others, have outright stated and cited his actual feats done on panel? And how is this line of thought "standard procedure"? Do you think there's some kind of pro-skyfather/anti-herald movement on KMC?

Originally posted by abhilegend
What we get in comics that superman beats the crap out of any being, skyfathers be damned with his fists.



Except when he doesn't.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Keep it shorter, it's almost to long.

I'm saying that going by the feats of the Heralds listed and the feats of Odin, I don't see him oneshooting them.

By KMC they are high Heralds. Their feats put them, well, above imho. It's jobbing if they took worse from greater beings then Odin and were oneshooted by him, simple, really. And if it's now a vast majority we are making progress, at least. As for Krona, well he took down Galactus quite easy, where Odin, well headbutted himself for an ko.

Sorry BP.I may not be the Mod but I have to remind you this.

Originally posted by Digi
No Non-canon Sources

Non-canon sources are invalid for evidence. With rare exceptions, comics not in continuity such as Elseworlds, What Ifs, or alternate universes are not used for evidence in debates of a particular mainstream character.

A canon source is one that is regarded as being 'in continuity'. In the example of Star Trek; instances from the series and movies can be used, but books are definitely out. Comic book crossovers are usually unusable as they ignore common sense most of the time (DC vs. Marvel is certainly unusable in some cases in our debates!).

This includes JLA/Avengers. Canon or not, people just aren't going to agree on it in most cases. Besides, there should be plenty of other comics with which to make your point.

Comics released strictly online or on web sites will not be considered proof in the Comic Book Versus Forum.

So using JLA/Avengers to prove your point is invalid.Besides, you can't really prove he took down 616 Galactus

^I know it's just official for DC and Marvel but not here on KMC. And I don't fear the mods coming at me .
Originally posted by abhilegend
What we get in comics that superman beats the crap out of any being, skyfathers be damned with his fists.



Especially an old man like Odin.

Originally posted by abhilegend
ahah

You should support ME against this Marvel-Asgardian bootlicker...

sneer

Even if we assume that JLA/Avengers is canon for both companies and not just DC and disregard the KMC ruling, it's painfully obvious that JLA/Avengers Krona isn't on the same level as the less formidable War of the Green Lanterns Krona. So using that Krona beating Galactus as some kind of proof is faulty.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
^I know it's just official for DC and Marvel but not here on KMC. And I don't fear the mods coming at me .

I know its official for DC.But what makes you think its official for Marvel ?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Except when he doesn't.


Exceptions.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
^I know it's just official for DC and Marvel but not here on KMC. And I don't fear the mods coming at me .


Especially an old man like Odin.
Yeah,totally.





I'm supporting you bro.
huhu

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
That's what she said. *zing*

Yeah, but going by the feats of Odin (the ones shown in comics), he actually...y'know...one-shots heralds. And he does it without exerting much effort or while weakened or some other circumstance that prevents him from going all out, in which case, he'd outright obliterate herald level beings.

Or they could be high end feats. Thor was once able to endure a barrage of blasts from multiple Celestials. Do I think that's the norm for Thor? Hell no, that's insane and it was clearly designed to be an epic heroic moment. That's what I'm getting at here. You can't pick out a handful to a dozen of good feats compare them to the overwhelming majority of feats under a character's history and just decide that everything else besides those high end feats was "jobbing" or "PIS". That doesn't even make a lick of sense. It's just as bad as trying to lowball a character by citing gas stations exploding or being mugged by Mexicans or falling down stairs or being shot and KOd with a sniper round; its just as inaccurate a portrayal of a character's overall formidability and capabilities albeit on the other far side of the spectrum.

Krona beating down Galactus? JLA/Avengers Krona =/= Krona from War of the Green Lanterns. That's common sense. And no, you can't arbitrarily decide that Hal can kill whomever just because of his willpower, which by its very nature, fluctuates depending on the situation at hand. No one's trying to lowball Hal here, so don't act like it.

Odin doesn't get an autowin because he's a skyfather. He wins because he's more powerful than anyone here and quite a few people here are virtually useless here against him. And that's based on feats and portrayals.

What gets me here is this.

Who here is Trans or Low Skyfather for one? And for another, where in the world do you get that Odin gets the win here because of his status and not his feats? Because I, alongside several others, have outright stated and cited his actual feats done on panel? And how is this line of thought "standard procedure"? Do you think there's some kind of pro-skyfather/anti-herald movement on KMC?

... when you used Bruceys strap on to please her? *zingbackatya*

And you know, going by feats some of the listed "high heralds" tank blasts from higher beings then Odin. We can continue this circular "debate" till one gets tired or till I can go home (I'm at work right now).

If you have so many high end feats under your belt, I would say it isn't far off to let you tank some blasts from some old guy like Odin...
So we have to find an average and this is where we disagree, actually. In your opinion Odins average is oneshooting high heralds and the average of the high heralds is getting oneshooted by Skyfathers, while mine is Odins average not one shooting the high heralds with better feats, and the average of the high heralds to tank one or more Skyfather blasts. I don't say that a mere high herald can beat a Skyfather, don't get me wrong, except Superman cough, but a Skyfather has limits too and it should be possible for a decent number of high heralds to overwhelm a Skyfather as a team. Standard comic scenario btw. Team of powerful heroes takes down an much more powerful opponent, they wouldn't be able to take one on one.

Semantics. Krona would kick Odins ass. And I don't decide who he can kill, I'm just not seeing him as a mere high herald or cannon fodder.

He is more powerful then them, individually but as a team? I disagree.

By your previous definition, every high herald who has repeatedly faced Skyfathers in battle and/or has more skyfather or trans feats under his beld. No I don't think there is a conspiration sneer I just noticed that you have to put a Skyfather against a team from a lower tier or even a single being but special stips and the people won't even think about it but declare the Skyfather the winner. Works with abstracts too btw.

Originally posted by Igniz
I know its official for DC.But what makes you think its official for Marvel ?

Wasn't it declared by both companies as the first official crossover upon it's release?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yeah,totally.





I'm supporting you bro.
huhu

Good, then let's stomp this Marvel-Zombie superdur

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Wasn't it declared by both companies as the first official crossover upon it's release?

Its even in the bios of some marvel characters like Grandmaster, monica rambeau and such.




Yeah, stomp this DC hater.

durfist

Originally posted by abhilegend
Its even in the bios of some marvel characters like Grandmaster, monica rambeau and such.




Yeah, stomp this DC hater.

durfist

Burn that witch!!! Viva la DC Revolution!!!

giljotiini

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
... when you used Bruceys strap on to please her? *zingbackatya*

And you know, going by feats some of the listed "high heralds" tank blasts from higher beings then Odin. We can continue this circular "debate" till one gets tired or till I can go home (I'm at work right now).

If you have so many high end feats under your belt, I would say it isn't far off to let you tank some blasts from some old guy like Odin...
So we have to find an average and this is where we disagree, actually. In your opinion Odins average is oneshooting high heralds and the average of the high heralds is getting oneshooted by Skyfathers, while mine is Odins average not one shooting the high heralds with better feats, and the average of the high heralds to tank one or more Skyfather blasts. I don't say that a mere high herald can beat a Skyfather, don't get me wrong, except Superman cough, but a Skyfather has limits too and it should be possible for a decent number of high heralds to overwhelm a Skyfather as a team. Standard comic scenario btw. Team of powerful heroes takes down an much more powerful opponent, they wouldn't be able to take one on one.

Semantics. Krona would kick Odins ass. And I don't decide who he can kill, I'm just not seeing him as a mere high herald or cannon fodder.

He is more powerful then them, individually but as a team? I disagree.

By your previous definition, every high herald who has repeatedly faced Skyfathers in battle and/or has more skyfather or trans feats under his beld. No I don't think there is a conspiration sneer I just noticed that you have to put a Skyfather against a team from a lower tier or even a single being but special stips and the people won't even think about it but declare the Skyfather the winner. Works with abstracts too btw.

Ghey.

Yes, I know some of them have feats of enduring blasts from Odin's caliber or above. But none of them consistantly display that ability to get into prolonged fights with people like Odin and win. That's the whole point here. And if you can't see why grasping the seldom instances of such occurrences and painting characters in a light that they simply are not regularly portrayed at to justify them winning is FUBAR style debating, I don't know what to tell you. It would be the same as me arguing that Odin regularly shakes the multiverse in battle or destroys galaxies when he doesn't.

Odin's average is either one shotting high heralds or otherwise not having a hard time beating them down to prove a point, occasionally while weakened or holding back. He's done since since his inception with examples including Thor, Silver Surfer, an amped Annihilus, Loki, Absorbing Man, Gladiator, Karnilla, Ulik, etc. His average includes fighting people well above herald class and winning or stalemating against them such as Surtur, Ymir, Dark Gods, Thanos, Seth, The Enchanters, etc. His high end feats include destroying entire planets easily, being able to create pocket universes, shattering galaxies as a side effect of his battles, shaking the multiverse, transporting an entire population to an alternate dimension, planetary scale mindwiping, etc. I don't know, maybe you haven't read a lot of comics with Odin in it, but that's why people are giving him the win here. On the average, he's well above a high herald and to the point that throwing multiple high heralds at him won't do much good outside of prompting him to possibly act more aggressive. And at his "best", he's approaching Elder God and above level power. Inverted ninja law doesn't fly in a forum battle where PIS is removed. And yes, Superman would get beaten by Odin, too.

Two different Kronas you're mentioning here, buddy. You mentioned Krona beating up Galactus, which iyo was more impressive than Odin's headbutt. That Krona, from JLA/Avengers, is a completely different incarnation than the Krona that was in War of the Green Lanterns (the one that Hal merced). That's like arguing that because Savage Hulk got the better of Thor in a fight he'd do just as good against Rune King Thor. Completely different incarnations of the character. So bringing up Krona to begin with is a moot point on your behalf. Hal is a high herald, though, albeit one with good high end feats....like virtually every other high herald. Doesn't mean Odin won't one shot him or beat the shit out of him.

Not really, not when Odin can literally dispatch most of the time without putting forth much effort, as based on feats and not Odin's most spectacular ones, either.

No, having high end feats outside of their typical weight class doesn't make them a Low Skyfather or Trans being. Those are just high end feats. On the average people like Thor, Hal, Norrin, Orion, Superman...they aren't on the same level as Odin. That's based off of feats, general portrayal, and common sense. People are saying Odin wins not because of his title, but because of his accomplishments and feats ie. what he's done in comics. If this was Zeus or something, you might have a point, but Odin's resume speaks for itself. I don't see what's so radical about the idea of Odin steamrolling most of this time when his feats suggest that he does.

Here is the grandmaster bio from official handbook of marvel universe

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/grandmasterbio.jpg

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
You should support ME against this Marvel-Asgardian bootlicker...

sneer

Originally posted by abhilegend
I'm supporting you bro.
huhu

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Good, then let's stomp this Marvel-Zombie superdur

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yeah, stomp this DC hater.

durfist

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Burn that witch!!! Viva la DC Revolution!!!

giljotiini

How quaint. You both have much to learn.

http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss225/OdinBorson/seriously-bro-troll-harder.jpg

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
How quaint. You both have much to learn.

http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss225/OdinBorson/seriously-bro-troll-harder.jpg
Yeah, the master troll has spoken.131

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Ghey.

Yes, I know some of them have feats of enduring blasts from Odin's caliber or above. But none of them consistantly display that ability to get into prolonged fights with people like Odin and win. That's the whole point here. And if you can't see why grasping the seldom instances of such occurrences and painting characters in a light that they simply are not regularly portrayed at to justify them winning is FUBAR style debating, I don't know what to tell you. It would be the same as me arguing that Odin regularly shakes the multiverse in battle or destroys galaxies when he doesn't.

Odin's average is either one shotting high heralds or otherwise not having a hard time beating them down to prove a point, occasionally while weakened or holding back. He's done since since his inception with examples including Thor, Silver Surfer, an amped Annihilus, Loki, Absorbing Man, Gladiator, Karnilla, Ulik, etc. His average includes fighting people well above herald class and winning or stalemating against them such as Surtur, Ymir, Dark Gods, Thanos, Seth, The Enchanters, etc. His high end feats include destroying entire planets easily, being able to create pocket universes, shattering galaxies as a side effect of his battles, shaking the multiverse, transporting an entire population to an alternate dimension, planetary scale mindwiping, etc. I don't know, maybe you haven't read a lot of comics with Odin in it, but that's why people are giving him the win here. On the average, he's well above a high herald and to the point that throwing multiple high heralds at him won't do much good outside of prompting him to possibly act more aggressive. And at his "best", he's approaching Elder God and above level power. Inverted ninja law doesn't fly in a forum battle where PIS is removed. And yes, Superman would get beaten by Odin, too.

Two different Kronas you're mentioning here, buddy. You mentioned Krona beating up Galactus, which iyo was more impressive than Odin's headbutt. That Krona, from JLA/Avengers, is a completely different incarnation than the Krona that was in War of the Green Lanterns (the one that Hal merced). That's like arguing that because Savage Hulk got the better of Thor in a fight he'd do just as good against Rune King Thor. Completely different incarnations of the character. So bringing up Krona to begin with is a moot point on your behalf. Hal is a high herald, though, albeit one with good high end feats....like virtually every other high herald. Doesn't mean Odin won't one shot him or beat the shit out of him.

Not really, not when Odin can literally dispatch most of the time without putting forth much effort, as based on feats and not Odin's most spectacular ones, either.

No, having high end feats outside of their typical weight class doesn't make them a Low Skyfather or Trans being. Those are just high end feats. On the average people like Thor, Hal, Norrin, Orion, Superman...they aren't on the same level as Odin. That's based off of feats, general portrayal, and common sense. People are saying Odin wins not because of his title, but because of his accomplishments and feats ie. what he's done in comics. If this was Zeus or something, you might have a point, but Odin's resume speaks for itself. I don't see what's so radical about the idea of Odin steamrolling most of this time when his feats suggest that he does.

I don't condemn you.

Here we go again, here we go go go....
So he won't be oneshooting them because they can take some blasts. Ok fine, we agree. I never said they win a one on one, but what you forget, he will fight them all at once, as a team. It isn't that hard to grasp.

Odin has his high feats and so do the high heralds. Considering both, you come to a differen't conclusion but it's not a fact. I know it's hard to accept but a wall of text won't help .

Your Thor/Hulk is so wrong btw. Krona changed over time, that's correct and no one is arguing this. You didn't get the joke but still. Krona > Odin, if you like it or not. Odin would beat Hal but he won't one shoot him, really.

Your opinion, and you are entitled to it.

However, they have a lot of those high end feats, and by your argumentation it would place them higher on the food chain. You are contradicting yourself now. Zeus is Odins equal, not by feats but by common sense. Now you are trying to strawman me... So in your opinion the team would beat Zeus but not Odin? Based on feats or common sense? You think based on feats Superman would beat Odin then?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Ghey.

Yes, I know some of them have feats of enduring blasts from Odin's caliber or above. But none of them consistantly display that ability to get into prolonged fights with people like Odin and win. That's the whole point here. And if you can't see why grasping the seldom instances of such occurrences and painting characters in a light that they simply are not regularly portrayed at to justify them winning is FUBAR style debating, I don't know what to tell you. It would be the same as me arguing that Odin regularly shakes the multiverse in battle or destroys galaxies when he doesn't.

Odin's average is either one shotting high heralds or otherwise not having a hard time beating them down to prove a point, occasionally while weakened or holding back. He's done since since his inception with examples including Thor, Silver Surfer, an amped Annihilus, Loki, Absorbing Man, Gladiator, Karnilla, Ulik, etc. His average includes fighting people well above herald class and winning or stalemating against them such as Surtur, Ymir, Dark Gods, Thanos, Seth, The Enchanters, etc. His high end feats include destroying entire planets easily, being able to create pocket universes, shattering galaxies as a side effect of his battles, shaking the multiverse, transporting an entire population to an alternate dimension, planetary scale mindwiping, etc. I don't know, maybe you haven't read a lot of comics with Odin in it, but that's why people are giving him the win here. On the average, he's well above a high herald and to the point that throwing multiple high heralds at him won't do much good outside of prompting him to possibly act more aggressive. And at his "best", he's approaching Elder God and above level power. Inverted ninja law doesn't fly in a forum battle where PIS is removed. And yes, Superman would get beaten by Odin, too.

Two different Kronas you're mentioning here, buddy. You mentioned Krona beating up Galactus, which iyo was more impressive than Odin's headbutt. That Krona, from JLA/Avengers, is a completely different incarnation than the Krona that was in War of the Green Lanterns (the one that Hal merced). That's like arguing that because Savage Hulk got the better of Thor in a fight he'd do just as good against Rune King Thor. Completely different incarnations of the character. So bringing up Krona to begin with is a moot point on your behalf. Hal is a high herald, though, albeit one with good high end feats....like virtually every other high herald. Doesn't mean Odin won't one shot him or beat the shit out of him.

Not really, not when Odin can literally dispatch most of the time without putting forth much effort, as based on feats and not Odin's most spectacular ones, either.

No, having high end feats outside of their typical weight class doesn't make them a Low Skyfather or Trans being. Those are just high end feats. On the average people like Thor, Hal, Norrin, Orion, Superman...they aren't on the same level as Odin. That's based off of feats, general portrayal, and common sense. People are saying Odin wins not because of his title, but because of his accomplishments and feats ie. what he's done in comics. If this was Zeus or something, you might have a point, but Odin's resume speaks for itself. I don't see what's so radical about the idea of Odin steamrolling most of this time when his feats suggest that he does.

Zeus would merk them as well.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
I don't condemn you.

Here we go again, here we go go go....
So he won't be oneshooting them because they can take some blasts. Ok fine, we agree. I never said they win a one on one, but what you forget, he will fight them all at once, as a team. It isn't that hard to grasp.

Odin has his high feats and so do the high heralds. Considering both, you come to a differen't conclusion but it's not a fact. I know it's hard to accept but a wall of text won't help .

Your Thor/Hulk is so wrong btw. Krona changed over time, that's correct and no one is arguing this. You didn't get the joke but still. Krona > Odin, if you like it or not. Odin would beat Hal but he won't one shoot him, really.

Your opinion, and you are entitled to it.

However, they have a lot of those high end feats, and by your argumentation it would place them higher on the food chain. You are contradicting yourself now. Zeus is Odins equal, not by feats but by common sense. Now you are trying to strawman me... So in your opinion the team would beat Zeus but not Odin? Based on feats or common sense? You think based on feats Superman would beat Odin then?

Yeah, he'll be one shotting a lot of them. A few of them might be able to take more than one blast through their natural defense or more than that if they muster up an actual defense. His average feats place him >>> heralds. His high end feats place him >>> high end heralds. That's not really anything to debate about, not when it's a consistent portrayal of how Odin stands in the grand scheme of things. He's not just slightly more formidable than a high herald. It's be a very significant margin, and that's without him going all out. That is a fact.

Not really. You interchanged two forms of Krona as a means to justify him being > Odin, which is faulty. JLA/Avengers Krona beating Galactus doesn't mean that War of the Lanterns Krona would do the same. And it doesn't mean Krona would have an easy time handling Odin based off of what he did, either. I got your Odin headbutt joke the first time you typed it, but arguing in favor of what Krona did in the crossover and trying to apply to what may as well be a completely different character doesn't make sense. So my example of Thor/Hulk is right on the money. Based on feats, yeah, Odin would one shot Hal Jordan conventionally.

Zeus is Odin's equal due to status, the very same "skyfather" status you claim gives Odin his victory here unfairly. By feats, Odin is easily superior to Zeus. That's my point here. Zeus has impressive feats, but not on the level of Odin. If you subscribe to the idea that they must be equal in every sense of the word and think that Odin beats the team, then logically, you think Zeus does too. I don't find Zeus to be equal to Odin when it comes to actual proof and on panel evidence, which is what I'm using to support Odin here, not just "he wins because he's a Skyfather and Skyfathers are higher up on the food chain than heralds". Based on feats as a whole, no, Superman wouldn't beat Odin. Odin would beat the crap out of him, though.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Yeah, he'll be one shotting a lot of them. A few of them might be able to take more than one blast through their natural defense or more than that if they muster up an actual defense. His average feats place him >>> heralds. His high end feats place him >>> high end heralds. That's not really anything to debate about, not when it's a consistent portrayal of how Odin stands in the grand scheme of things. He's not just slightly more formidable than a high herald. It's be a very significant margin, and that's without him going all out. That is a fact.

Not really. You interchanged two forms of Krona as a means to justify him being > Odin, which is faulty. JLA/Avengers Krona beating Galactus doesn't mean that War of the Lanterns Krona would do the same. And it doesn't mean Krona would have an easy time handling Odin based off of what he did, either. I got your Odin headbutt joke the first time you typed it, but arguing in favor of what Krona did in the crossover and trying to apply to what may as well be a completely different character doesn't make sense. So my example of Thor/Hulk is right on the money. Based on feats, yeah, Odin would one shot Hal Jordan conventionally.

Zeus is Odin's equal due to status, the very same "skyfather" status you claim gives Odin his victory here unfairly. By feats, Odin is easily superior to Zeus. That's my point here. Zeus has impressive feats, but not on the level of Odin. If you subscribe to the idea that they must be equal in every sense of the word and think that Odin beats the team, then logically, you think Zeus does too. I don't find Zeus to be equal to Odin when it comes to actual proof and on panel evidence, which is what I'm using to support Odin here, not just "he wins because he's a Skyfather and Skyfathers are higher up on the food chain than heralds". Based on feats as a whole, no, Superman wouldn't beat Odin. Odin would beat the crap out of him, though.
You think JLA/Avengers krona would struggle with odin? baka

Originally posted by abhilegend
You think JLA/Avengers krona would struggle with odin?

I sure as hell didn't say that and you know it.

What I have issue with is the "Hal Jordan killed War of the Lanterns Krona so he could kill Odin who failed to KO Galactus with a headbutt while JLA/Avengers Krona beat Galactus" line of logic. Two completely different portrayals of Krona and as such, not interchangeable.

No one sane would argue that JLA/Avengers Krona would be given a hard time by Odin, much less beaten by him.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I sure as hell didn't say that and you know it.

What I have issue with is the "Hal Jordan killed War of the Lanterns Krona so he could kill Odin who failed to KO Galactus with a headbutt while JLA/Avengers Krona beat Galactus" line of logic. Two completely different portrayals of Krona and as such, not interchangeable.

No one sane would argue that JLA/Avengers Krona would be given a hard time by Odin, much less beaten by him.
I'm just getting a lil' bit sleepy and its damn hard to read your long posts on a phone.
durhulk

Originally posted by abhilegend
I'm just getting a lil' bit sleepy and its damn hard to read your long posts on a phone.
durhulk

If you're not lucid enough to comprehend my greatness and masterful debating, you're doing yourself a disservice.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
If you're not lucid enough to comprehend my greatness and masterful debating, you're doing yourself a disservice. Originally posted by abhilegend
Yeah, the master troll has spoken.131

http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss225/OdinBorson/YouShallDealWithIt.jpg

While it's hard to ignore the feats of DC team which is obviously extensive and impressive list of feats.

There is a reason Odin is the cream of crop in his weight class. He isn't just some high powered being who get's involved every once and while and does something good. He also has an extremely extensive and impressive list of abilities because he gets down and dirty a lot.

He has high end telepathy, the ability to effect time, the ability to be in multiple places, herald busting attacks, magical abilities that border on him being able to do just about anything he wants at this hierarchy of power.

Trying to use high end feats is a bad idea as Odin's high end feats are >>>>> High end heralds.

Originally posted by keiththegreat
Marvel Odin

vs

Firestorm
Martian Manhunter
Maxima
Orion
Captain Atom
Hal Jordan
Superman
Sodam Yat Ion
Steel
The Flash
Power Girl
Super Girl (Current)
Hawk Man with Claw of Horus
Hawk girl

No BFR

Does anyone think Thanos could beat this team?

Odin >>>> Thanos

Originally posted by Silent Master
Odin >>>> Thanos

Yeah I realize that. Picking characters from the team in OP, how many of them would it take to beat Thanos, do you think? I think SYI, Superman and Orion together could do the job.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
Yeah I realize that. Picking characters from the team in OP, how many of them would it take to beat Thanos, do you think? I think SYI, Superman and Orion together could do the job.

lol. No.

This Trans to low skyfather steamrolled a team of heralds.
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/49782/1472373-tyrant_super.jpg

This team isn't beating Odin at all.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Odin beats the crap out of the team.

Yeah, 1 shots for everybody except Sodam Yat.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
lol. No.

This Trans to low skyfather steamrolled a team of heralds.
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/49782/1472373-tyrant_super.jpg

This team isn't beating Odin at all.

Not to much time to debate today, well most days I don't have enough time anyway, but...

What do you mean by "steamrolled"? as far as I'm aware those heralds were not at peak and the trans low skyfather was actually syphoning power out of those heralds, so the heralds were not at peak, on top of that Morg was not even helping out and Tyrant was also getting help from his minions.

So is that the definition of "steamrolling"? Just asking because if it is, I need to update my dictionary

Originally posted by keiththegreat
Marvel Odin

vs

Firestorm
Martian Manhunter
Maxima
Orion
Captain Atom
Hal Jordan
Superman
Sodam Yat Ion
Steel
The Flash
Power Girl
Super Girl (Current)
Hawk Man with Claw of Horus
Hawk girl


all get one shotted minus superman, hal jordan,flash and sodom yat. This team last a very shot time then dies. This team has no chance.

No BFR

Odin smokes this team, then goes takes Wonder Woman as his sex slave!

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Wasn't it declared by both companies as the first official crossover upon it's release?

Marvel and DC already had a crossover called Marvel Vs DC/DC Vs Marvel.Busiek apparently missed one fact about 616 Galactus.Why didn't Abraxas showed up when Galactus was killed?


Originally posted by abhilegend
Here is the grandmaster bio from official handbook of marvel universe

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/grandmasterbio.jpg

You can use BIOs all you want.But they aren't always reliable.Fear Itself Spotlight doesn't even mention the JLA/Avengers Crossover.History Of The Marvel Universe(Narrated by the Watcher) didn't mention JLA/Avengers as well.But Bloackbusters of the Marvel Universe referenced Marvel Vs DC and All-Access but not JLA/Avengers.Does that mean Marvel Vs DC and All-Access is canonical with the Marvel Universe and not JLA/Avengers?

Originally posted by Igniz
Marvel and DC already had a crossover called Marvel Vs DC/DC Vs Marvel.Busiek apparently missed one fact about 616 Galactus.Why didn't Abraxas showed up when Galactus was killed?




You can use BIOs all you want.But they aren't always reliable.Fear Itself Spotlight doesn't even mention the JLA/Avengers Crossover.History Of The Marvel Universe(Narrated by the Watcher) didn't mention JLA/Avengers as well.But Bloackbusters of the Marvel Universe referenced Marvel Vs DC and All-Access but not JLA/Avengers.Does that mean Marvel Vs DC and All-Access is canonical with the Marvel Universe and not JLA/Avengers?

This is the biggest BS Marvelites always bring to the table, with all due respect.

This so called "unreliable mistake" on the OHOTMU was made FIVE times

In the Galactus entry
Grandmaster entry
UN entry
Cosmic cube entry
and somewhere else.

Please stop using this as an excuse, is just silly.

I would not use the crossover as evidence but please stop making excuses.

I don't use handbooks for evidence for good reason.

They suck ass.

Originally posted by biensalsa
This is the biggest BS Marvelites always bring to the table, with all due respect.

This so called "unreliable mistake" on the OHOTMU was made FIVE times

In the Galactus entry
Grandmaster entry
UN entry
Cosmic cube entry
and somewhere else.

Please stop using this as an excuse, is just silly.

I would not use the crossover as evidence but please stop making excuses.



Slow down there.1st off, read who Abraxas is.2nd, I reference the comic that was released today by Marvel vs the old info Comics or OHOTMU you call it.And yes Fear Itself Spotlight(2011) doesn't make mention of the JLA/Avengers.History Of The Marvel Universe(2012) doesn't mention it as well.Yet Blockbusters of the Marvel Universe(2011) references Marvel Vs DC and All-Access but not JLA/Avengers.Things can get retconned in comics anyways.So take it easy there.

Originally posted by Igniz


Slow down there.1st off, read who Abraxas is.2nd, I reference the comic that was released today by Marvel vs the old info Comics or OHOTMU you call it.And yes Fear Itself Spotlight(2011) doesn't make mention of the JLA/Avengers.History Of The Marvel Universe(2012) doesn't mention it as well.Yet Blockbusters of the Marvel Universe(2011) references Marvel Vs DC and All-Access but not JLA/Avengers.Things can get retconned in comics anyways.So take it easy there.


I don't need to read who is Abraxas, but seriously, that constant whining of the OHOTMU is not reliable is kind of getting old.

Case in point ^

They make mistakes? yes they do, but a few mistake compared to the amount of information that is right, is kind of childish to complain about not being reliable when MOST of it's information is right.

Originally posted by biensalsa
I don't need to read who is Abraxas, but seriously, that constant whining of the OHOTMU is not reliable is kind of getting old.

Case in point ^

They make mistakes? yes they do, but a few mistake compared to the amount of information that is right, is kind of childish to complain about not being reliable when MOST of it's information is right.

So you're going to ignore the current comic books that no longer reference the JLA/Avengers crossover for the sake of those OHOTMUs?Not everything in comics are always the same.Somethings in comics even get retconned.And the current ones I read today are either Marvel no longer recognizing the JLA/Avengers crossover as being canon or the crossover got retconned(In Marvel's side that is).And even if you push through with the crossover being canonical, the rules in this forum is clear."NO CROSSOVERS".

Originally posted by Igniz
So you're going to ignore the current comic books that no longer reference the JLA/Avengers crossover for the sake of those OHOTMUs?Not everything in comics are always the same.Somethings in comics even get retconned.And the current ones I read today are either Marvel no longer recognizing the JLA/Avengers crossover as being canon or the crossover got retconned(In Marvel's side that is).And even if you push through with the crossover being canonical, the rules in this forum is clear."NO CROSSOVERS".

I agree, canon comics change over time.

But lets see if what you are saying is true, will you accept the canonical value of the JLA/Avengers the first week it was published?

I'm not talking today, I'm talking the first week after it was published.

Will you?

Originally posted by biensalsa
I agree, canon comics change over time.

But lets see if what you are saying is true, will you accept the canonical value of the JLA/Avengers the first week it was published?

I'm not talking today, I'm talking the first week after it was published.

Will you?

Back in the day I did accept it as canonical when Marvel was making OHOTMUs of the Marvel characters involved.But certain comics like Fear Itself Spotlight and History Of The Marvel Universe no longer even mentions the JLA/Avengers crossover.The weird part is Blockbusters of the Marvel Universe mentions Marvel Vs DC and All-Access but not the JLA/Avengers crossover.Why is JLA/Avengers no longer mentioned in current issues in Marvel?

I've read through this entire thread to get a better perspective on this fight, and I still have yet to be convinced that this team wins this. First of all I sat there reading people saying that the entire team was composed of elite High Heralds when a couple of them are only mid to High Metas.

Second of all I read about the the canon vs non canon references to JLA/Avengers, which left me thinking that whether it was canon or not, a battle between Superman and Thor would likely end the same way that it did, and no matter who was the last man standing, that guy would be awfully spent after the match up.

This leads me to many conclusions. The first one that comes to mind, is Thor being trapped within a force block that Thanos placed him in, while Odin merely flexed, and freed himself from it. I could see Superman and any of the others on the field being trapped just like Thor was, and unable to move. This pretty much shows the power gap between Odin and the more powerful members of this particular team on the most basic physical level. Adding his wide array of powers to the mix, and you would have the team imprisoned by eldritch magic force spheres, capable of easily holding Beta Ray Bill prisoners. As Hawkman, and Hawk Woman with their Nth metal weapons... I'm sure that no one believes that this duo would last against Odin for more than a few brief moments?

Odin has also played mind games with Galactus, who more or less ignored Charles Xavier, and Magneto's attempts to contact him during the Secret Wars. So while it is true, we can not just go by title and proclaim any guy with the Sky Father title the winner without proof of feats, Odin actually has the feats to show that he can actually break any and all of the characters on the field in a number of ways.

Originally posted by Stoic
So while it is true, we can not just go by title and proclaim any guy with the Sky Father title the winner without proof of feats, Odin actually has the feats to show that he can actually break any and all of the characters on the field in a number of ways.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-9QjARWd5a84/T3OXHJJbe1I/AAAAAAAAA34/OVtLNvwpMvI/s1600/nod-of-approval.gif

@Igniz

I know JLA/Avengers was canon according to DC because they referenced the "cosmic egg" in their issues.

But doesn't this scan also prove that JLA/Avengers was cannon for Marvel too? I could have sworn I even saw this mentioned in Galactus' handbook entry :
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/56665/1889226-25ih1_super.jpg

Gotten from here :
http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/the-celestials-vs-the-old-gods/620838/?page=5

They have more scans too.

Originally posted by Igniz
Marvel and DC already had a crossover called Marvel Vs DC/DC Vs Marvel.Busiek apparently missed one fact about 616 Galactus.Why didn't Abraxas showed up when Galactus was killed?




You can use BIOs all you want.But they aren't always reliable.Fear Itself Spotlight doesn't even mention the JLA/Avengers Crossover.History Of The Marvel Universe(Narrated by the Watcher) didn't mention JLA/Avengers as well.But Bloackbusters of the Marvel Universe referenced Marvel Vs DC and All-Access but not JLA/Avengers.Does that mean Marvel Vs DC and All-Access is canonical with the Marvel Universe and not JLA/Avengers?
So what are you suggesting that the five entries are unreliable?Originally posted by Igniz
Back in the day I did accept it as canonical when Marvel was making OHOTMUs of the Marvel characters involved.But certain comics like Fear Itself Spotlight and History Of The Marvel Universe no longer even mentions the JLA/Avengers crossover.The weird part is Blockbusters of the Marvel Universe mentions Marvel Vs DC and All-Access but not the JLA/Avengers crossover.Why is JLA/Avengers no longer mentioned in current issues in Marvel?
Maybe because its no longer relevant.

Originally posted by zopzop
@Igniz

I know JLA/Avengers was canon according to DC because they referenced the "cosmic egg" in their issues.

But doesn't this scan also prove that JLA/Avengers was cannon for Marvel too? I could have sworn I even saw this mentioned in Galactus' handbook entry :
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/56665/1889226-25ih1_super.jpg

Gotten from here :
http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/the-celestials-vs-the-old-gods/620838/?page=5

They have more scans too.

That scan is from years before JLA/Avengers came out, so how exactly would it prove that JLA/Avengers is canon for marvel?

Originally posted by Silent Master
That scan is from years before JLA/Avengers came out, so how exactly would it prove that JLA/Avengers is canon for marvel?

Bah, I confused two different cross overs didn't I?

It happens.

Originally posted by Stoic
So while it is true, we can not just go by title and proclaim any guy with the Sky Father title the winner without proof of feats, Odin actually has the feats to show that he can actually break any and all of the characters on the field in a number of ways.



True.Odin is one of the prominent skyfather characters who actually battled skyfather level beings like Surtur(w/ or w/o Twilight),Ymir,Seth(while being weakened) to name a few.I can't remember a time Odin lossed to a herald level being.

@abhilegend I'm saying that using info in the past like the OHOTMUs that references JLA/Avengers is now being overshadowed by current infos of today like FIS,HOTMU and BOTMU(now referencing Marvel Vs DC and All-Access).The comics I mentioned are now making me believe JLA/Avengers isn't canon for Marvel anymore.Or like you said, it was no longer relevant like crossovers in forum debates.

Originally posted by Igniz


True.Odin is one of the prominent skyfather characters who actually battled skyfather level beings like Surtur(w/ or w/o Twilight),Ymir,Seth(while being weakened) to name a few.I can't remember a time Odin lossed to a herald level being.

@abhilegend I'm saying that using info in the past like the OHOTMUs that references JLA/Avengers is now being overshadowed by current infos of today like FIS,HOTMU and BOTMU(now referencing Marvel Vs DC and All-Access).The comics I mentioned are now making me believe JLA/Avengers isn't canon for Marvel anymore.Or like you said, it was no longer relevant like crossovers in forum debates.
It was never relevant in forum discussion but just not mentioned in today's bios doesn't mean the older ones are no longer in effect. Unless there is a confirmation that the information provided in those older bios are indeed non-canon, its not sufficient proof to declare them as non canon.

Originally posted by abhilegend
It was never relevant in forum discussion but just not mentioned in today's bios doesn't mean the older ones are no longer in effect. Unless there is a confirmation that the information provided in those older bios are indeed non-canon, its not sufficient proof to declare them as non canon.

Okay ?

Lets stop discussing this crossovers since were getting off topic anyways.This thread is about Odin Vs DC team anyways.And for me, Odin has sufficient showings stating he can beat this team.

Originally posted by Igniz
Okay ?

Lets stop discussing this crossovers since were getting off topic anyways.This thread is about Odin Vs DC team anyways.And for me, Odin has sufficient showings stating he can beat this team.
Ok.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Yeah, he'll be one shotting a lot of them. A few of them might be able to take more than one blast through their natural defense or more than that if they muster up an actual defense. His average feats place him >>> heralds. His high end feats place him >>> high end heralds. That's not really anything to debate about, not when it's a consistent portrayal of how Odin stands in the grand scheme of things. He's not just slightly more formidable than a high herald. It's be a very significant margin, and that's without him going all out. That is a fact.

Not really. You interchanged two forms of Krona as a means to justify him being > Odin, which is faulty. JLA/Avengers Krona beating Galactus doesn't mean that War of the Lanterns Krona would do the same. And it doesn't mean Krona would have an easy time handling Odin based off of what he did, either. I got your Odin headbutt joke the first time you typed it, but arguing in favor of what Krona did in the crossover and trying to apply to what may as well be a completely different character doesn't make sense. So my example of Thor/Hulk is right on the money. Based on feats, yeah, Odin would one shot Hal Jordan conventionally.

Zeus is Odin's equal due to status, the very same "skyfather" status you claim gives Odin his victory here unfairly. By feats, Odin is easily superior to Zeus. That's my point here. Zeus has impressive feats, but not on the level of Odin. If you subscribe to the idea that they must be equal in every sense of the word and think that Odin beats the team, then logically, you think Zeus does too. I don't find Zeus to be equal to Odin when it comes to actual proof and on panel evidence, which is what I'm using to support Odin here, not just "he wins because he's a Skyfather and Skyfathers are higher up on the food chain than heralds". Based on feats as a whole, no, Superman wouldn't beat Odin. Odin would beat the crap out of him, though.

They are a team, they won't stand there motionless, they will work together, it won't be as easy, they faced worse and prevailed. I'm not giving into this blind Odin wanking, sry. And Supermans role is far greater in the grand scheme of things btw. That's actually a fact.

I said that Krona kicked G's ass while Odin headbutted himself out^^. And that Krona would have an easy time with Odin. There is nothing to argue about, so your example wasn't very good. In your opinion, in mine Hal's shields would tank some blasts.

You missed something buddy, I don't think Odfin can beat them, if I would then yes Zeus could beat them too. ^^
So you think this team would beat Zeus then? And based on feats, you think Superman could take Zeus alone?

Based on feats, none of the team last longer than 2 hits.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
They are a team, they won't stand there motionless, they will work together, it won't be as easy, they faced worse and prevailed. I'm not giving into this blind Odin wanking, sry. And Supermans role is far greater in the grand scheme of things btw. That's actually a fact.

I said that Krona kicked G's ass while Odin headbutted himself out^^. And that Krona would have an easy time with Odin. There is nothing to argue about, so your example wasn't very good. In your opinion, in mine Hal's shields would tank some blasts.

You missed something buddy, I don't think Odfin can beat them, if I would then yes Zeus could beat them too. ^^
So you think this team would beat Zeus then? And based on feats, you think Superman could take Zeus alone?

So "Odin Wanking" = citing Odin's feats and capabilities? Are you even aware of what he's done and what he's capable of? No one is making any of this shit up, much less being "blind" about it. The fact is that he's consistently portrayed as being > heralds and while weakened or holding back. How you can argue that if you're informed of what Odin can do and who he is is beyond me. Superman being important doesn't mean he beats Odin, be serious. baka

Again, Krona from JLA/Avengers =/= Krona from War of the Green Lanterns. They're not comparable. At all. Krona from JLA/Avengers would decimate Odin and this team. So using that Krona who was absurdly powerful as some kind of point makes no sense. Hal's shields would be taxed within moments by Odin, provided he had the time to muster up a defense.

Yes, you've made it abundantly clear you think Odin not only loses this, but is "destroyed" by the team, which is pretty absurd. Zeus isn't Odin, certainly not by feats. And no, I don't see Superman beating Zeus alone under normal circumstances.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
So "Odin Wanking" = citing Odin's feats and capabilities? Are you even aware of what he's done and what he's capable of? No one is making any of this shit up, much less being "blind" about it. The fact is that he's consistently portrayed as being > heralds and while weakened or holding back. How you can argue that if you're informed of what Odin can do and who he is is beyond me. Superman being important doesn't mean he beats Odin, be serious. baka

Again, Krona from JLA/Avengers =/= Krona from War of the Green Lanterns. They're not comparable. At all. Krona from JLA/Avengers would decimate Odin and this team. So using that Krona who was absurdly powerful as some kind of point makes no sense. Hal's shields would be taxed within moments by Odin, provided he had the time to muster up a defense.

Yes, you've made it abundantly clear you think Odin not only loses this, but is "destroyed" by the team, which is pretty absurd. Zeus isn't Odin, certainly not by feats. And no, I don't see Superman beating Zeus alone under normal circumstances.

While ignoring those of the other "Herlads"...
It's kind of funny. Odin destroys "Herlads" and you don't differ between those "Heralds" (based on their feats) but when you compare Skyfathers then Zeus is below Odin by... feats. As Odins enemies all Herlads are alike, but Skyfathers are different... I think I get your point now.
You started about how important Odin is, my reply was there to mock Odins so called importance by comparing it to someone who is by far more important .

We agree to some part, fine. It wasn't supposed to, but it did some good. ^^ He would and I don't say he would win, but Odin would need some time^^.

So Zeus loses to this Herald team, the same way as an other Skyfather (with fewer feats) would lose. Odin however wins against those no-name Heralds.

Ok I think we are done.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
While ignoring those of the other "Herlads"...
It's kind of funny. Odin destroys "Herlads" and you don't differ between those "Heralds" (based on their feats) but when you compare Skyfathers then Zeus is below Odin by... feats. As Odins enemies all Herlads are alike, but Skyfathers are different... I think I get your point now.
You started about how important Odin is, my reply was there to mock Odin so called importance by comparing it to someone who is by far more important .

We agree to some part, fine. It wasn't supposed to, but it did some good. ^^ He would and I don't say he would win, but Odin would need some time^^.

So Zeus loses to this Herald team, the same way as an other Skyfather (with fewer feats) would lose. Odin however wins against those no-name Heralds.

Ok I think we are done.

I don't differ between heralds because like it or not, Thor and Silver Surfer are comparable and in the very same league as people such as Superman and Green Lantern. And there's also the fact that Odin mercs people above heralds such as Thanos, Surtur, the Dark Gods, Enchanters, etc. Zeus doesn't have as many feats as Odin, but is still portrayed as a peer and the feats he does have also portray him as being significantly above heralds.

Status/importance in the universe =/= power and formidability.

The problem here is that I'm fully aware of what the team can do, both on the consistent and average level and at high end levels. I also know what Odin can do for both.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I don't differ between heralds because like it or not, Thor and Silver Surfer are comparable and in the very same league as people such as Superman and Green Lantern. And there's also the fact that Odin mercs people above heralds such as Thanos, Surtur, the Dark Gods, Enchanters, etc. Zeus doesn't have as many feats as Odin, but is still portrayed as a peer and the feats he does have also portray him as being significantly above heralds.

Status/importance in the universe =/= power and formidability.

The problem here is that I'm fully aware of what the team can do, both on the consistent and average level and at high end levels. I also know what Odin can do for both.

So 7 Thors and 7 SS would do shit to Odin in your opinion? Ok.
Thanos stalemated Odin... just kidding.
Zeus is Odins equal imho. Yours differ.

I was mocking you.... forget it...

It's your problem, really. Your opinion, and let's not pretend it's more then this, differs from mine, as said, we are done . At least we agree that this team would beat Zeus.^^

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
So 7 Thors and 7 SS would do shit to Odin in your opinion? Ok.
Thanos stalemated Odin... just kidding.
Zeus is Odins equal imho. Yours differ.

I was mocking you.... forget it...

It's your problem, really. Your opinion, and let's not pretend it's more then this, differs from mine, as said, we are done . At least we agree that this team would beat Zeus.^^

7 Thors would be worse than 7 Surfers. Odin just takes away the collective Mjolnirs and beats the shit out of them. And if one Surfer was effortlessly one shot by an Odin who wasn't really trying to hurt him, what would six more accomplish?

Please, don't bring up that "Thanos stalemated Odin" crap up. Even in jest, it's too much.

They're equals as far as statements and how they respect each other go, sure. But on panel feats portray Odin as being superior. And even while Odin is, imo, superior to Zeus at the end of the day, Zeus is still well above heralds as well and I wouldn't imagine that he'd be taxed by this team.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
7 Thors would be worse than 7 Surfers. Odin just takes away the collective Mjolnirs and beats the shit out of them.

@ the mental picture of this.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
They are a team, they won't stand there motionless, they will work together, it won't be as easy, they faced worse and prevailed. I'm not giving into this blind Odin wanking, sry. And Supermans role is far greater in the grand scheme of things btw. That's actually a fact.

I said that Krona kicked G's ass while Odin headbutted himself out^^. And that Krona would have an easy time with Odin. There is nothing to argue about, so your example wasn't very good. In your opinion, in mine Hal's shields would tank some blasts.

And then Sinestro comes by and kicks Hal's ass.

So how did Hal do after beating Krona? Which other above skyfather did he steamroll over next? Or did some punk herald level villain give him a fight?

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
And then Sinestro comes by and kicks Hal's ass.

So how did Hal do after beating Krona? Which other above skyfather did he steamroll over next? Or did some punk herald level villain give him a fight?
Context ftw. Captain atom seeing his fellow heroes murdered would enter quantum field and spank odin.ermmnone

Originally posted by abhilegend
Context ftw. Captain atom seeing his fellow heroes murdered would enter quantum field and spank odin.ermmnone

Odin being able to see into the future kills Captain Atom first so your argument is flawed.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Odin being able to see into the future kills Captain Atom first so your argument is flawed.
Yeah and superman sings him out of existence in a fraction of nanosecond. Oh and cap is immortal, even johnny sorrow's gaze can make him only jump in time.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yeah and superman sings him out of existence in a fraction of nanosecond.

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110727182050/random-ness/images/6/6b/Not_Sure_if_Serious_meme.jpg

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110727182050/random-ness/images/6/6b/Not_Sure_if_Serious_meme.jpg
I'm liek totally serious!!
durfist

Originally posted by abhilegend
I'm liek totally serious!!
durfist

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-GAT5XlPWIdE/T4IDO6WQkJI/AAAAAAAAA5Q/T-sgFKhOSWs/s1600/joker-clapping.gif

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-GAT5XlPWIdE/T4IDO6WQkJI/AAAAAAAAA5Q/T-sgFKhOSWs/s1600/joker-clapping.gif
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/My%20photos/Lulz/003q1656.gif