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Pre Flashpoint Superman vs Thor in Hand to Hand combat. No other abilities will be used. (No flying, no super speed, no lightning, no Durok droppers, etc...) Just their strength and skill. Who takes it?


http://dailypop.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/440px-thorprof.jpg

VS

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/7/72/Superman.jpg/250px-Superman.jpg

I was going to make this..you beat me to it. I'm giving this to Thor.

Superman

Superman.

Thor is his superior in fighting and experience, Thor is more skilled!! It would be a fight though, Thor should win the majority

Originally posted by the Darkone
Thor is his superior in fighting and experience, Thor is more skilled!! It would be a fight though, Thor should win the majority
How is thor more skilled?

So speed equalized and and no exotic powers or flight.

Hmm...

Thor has more experience, but I reckon Superman is still stronger. And his skill is nothing to snuff at.

whatever. 50/50.

Thor has more skill, while Superman has better durability and strength. I'd give the slight advantage to Superman, but on any given day Thor could take it.

Thor have the hammer ? If yes he win, if not he lose.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
So speed equalized and and no exotic powers or flight.

Hmm...

Thor has more experience, but I reckon Superman is still stronger. And his skill is nothing to snuff at.

whatever. 50/50.

When both characters have thousands of years of experience I can't see experience mattering too much.

Originally posted by jalek moye
When both characters have thousands of years of experience I can't see experience mattering too much.

This is true, but I just wanted to say something in Thor's favor.

Thor has significantly more than a thousand years of experience fighting, though.

Thor FTW! If Man-Beast who's hand to hand is an evolved Martial Arts by a million years got his ass handed by Thor, so I think Thor can beat Superman 6/10.

it doesn't matter though.

it doesn't take thousands of years to know all there is to know about fighting or a particular style.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Thor has significantly more than a thousand years of experience fighting, though.

Yeah but I'm saying once you get into the thousands I can't actually see more experience mattering much. There's only soo much experience that actually aids you before you've pretty much gotten ll you can get from something. Can't see someone having a few thousand more then someone who has over a thousand as well, being as a big of a factor as someone who has like 20-30 years experience vs someone who has a thousand. While yes the gap is numerically bigger, I just honestly can't see much actually adding anything of value after a certain point. Pretty much it comes about skill imo. Now if its enough to win depends on the characters, but I'm speaking in general.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Thor has significantly more than a thousand years of experience fighting, though.
Who cares about some more thousands years?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Who cares about some more thousands years?


He's watched the birth and death of stars in the universe.

Way more than thousands of years old.

How often is Superman's fight in Asgard referenced?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
He's watched the birth and death of stars in the universe.

Way more than thousands of years old.

How often is Superman's fight in Asgard referenced?
And?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
He's watched the birth and death of stars in the universe.

Way more than thousands of years old.

How often is Superman's fight in Asgard referenced?

Do you think sticking to the same style of fighting for a million years will really have a noticeable more effect than a thousand? That's more then enough time to know all your going to know outside of someone teaching you something completely foreign to you.

This isn't really a comment about how much of an effect superman's asgard feasts have on him. But a question on where you see someone like Thor's experience mattering against anyone that is also uber long lived. IMO experiance only matters up to a certain point

Originally posted by abhilegend
And?

And I really don't see how or why Superman fighting in DC Asgard is supposed to make his experience at fighting equal to that of Thor.

If people want to make the case that Superman fighting in DC Asgard is = to the time Thor spent training and fighting in Marvel's Asgard...well, that's just silly.

Originally posted by jalek moye
Do you think sticking to the same style of fighting for a million years will really have a noticeable more effect than a thousand? That's more then enough time to know all your going to know outside of someone teaching you something completely foreign to you.

This isn't really a comment about how much of an effect superman's asgard feasts have on him. But a question on where you see someone like Thor's experience mattering against anyone that is also uber long lived. IMO experiance only matters up to a certain point

I think the "thousand years in Asgard thing" is a bit of a misnomer as far as Superman is concerned anyway, tbh. It's been thrown around the forum often as means to legitimately argue he has millenia of fighting experience and that it would place him on the same level as someone like Thor or Hercules or Wonder Woman. It's clear it's not mentioned often or has become an intergral part of his character. It's canon, but it makes as much sense to me as trying to use Thor summoning anti-matter to obliterate someone or absorbing galactic level explosions as the norm. A random one off feat shouldn't get the kind of leeway it does.

Originally posted by jalek moye
Do you think sticking to the same style of fighting for a million years will really have a noticeable more effect than a thousand? That's more then enough time to know all your going to know outside of someone teaching you something completely foreign to you.

This isn't really a comment about how much of an effect superman's asgard feasts have on him. But a question on where you see someone like Thor's experience mattering against anyone that is also uber long lived. IMO experiance only matters up to a certain point

And yet Thor can tell a Karate Chop and a Pressure point attack.

http://www.supermegamonkey.net/chronocomic/entries/scans7/T135_vsManWolf.JPG

And this is what Thor did to Man-Beast.

http://blogintomystery.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/thor135g.jpg

So experience does help.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
And I really don't see how or why Superman fighting in DC Asgard is supposed to make his experience at fighting equal to that of Thor.

If people want to make the case that Superman fighting in DC Asgard is = to the time Thor spent training and fighting in Marvel's Asgard...well, that's just silly.
Who's saying that? I just want to know what has thordone with all these "millions of years of of experience"?

Those scans are from the Lee/Kirby days so they probably don't count.

Originally posted by Igniz
And yet Thor can tell a Karate Chop and a Pressure point attack.

http://www.supermegamonkey.net/chronocomic/entries/scans7/T135_vsManWolf.JPG

And this is what Thor did to Man-Beast.

http://blogintomystery.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/thor135g.jpg

So experience does help.
Orion is one of the greatest martial artist of DCU. Superman has stalemated him in pure h2h many times. I don't see how that helps thor's case here. Superman beat kobra in batman's body by fists too while he was in kobra's body.

Originally posted by Igniz
And yet Thor can tell a Karate Chop and a Pressure point attack.

http://www.supermegamonkey.net/chronocomic/entries/scans7/T135_vsManWolf.JPG

And this is what Thor did to Man-Beast.

http://blogintomystery.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/thor135g.jpg

So experience does help.

Not seeing how disagrees with me at all. What about that shows experience beyond a thousand years matters more then experience that capped at a thousand years?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Who's saying that? I just want to know what has thordone with all these "millions of years of of experience"?

Bringing up Superman in Asgard period as some kind of feat or evidence he's close to the same level as Thor in terms of experience is just silly to me to begin with.

He's fought in wars, trained in the arts of war and combat, etc.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Those scans are from the Lee/Kirby days so they probably don't count.
Don't be silly, jake. They absolutely count. As much as superman's legion adventures, don't you think?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Bringing up Superman in Asgard period as some kind of feat or evidence he's close to the same level as Thor in terms of experience is just silly to me to begin with.

He's fought in wars, trained in the arts of war and combat, etc.
And?

Originally posted by abhilegend
And?

And what?

Cute thread.

Thor doesn't beat Superman with his hammer, let alone without it.

Originally posted by Spire
Cute thread.

Thor doesn't beat Superman with his hammer, let alone without it.

Pretty debatable on both counts.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
And what?
What are his on panel feats? Hawkman has fought in countless wars and remembers every fight he was in. Do you think he is more skilled than lets say captain america? This whole "he has countless years of experience" is all fine and dandy but in comics it means squat.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Pretty debatable on both counts.

Be my guest.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Pretty debatable on both counts.
Start the thread number 2125478 gazillion on internetz and see the result.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Bringing up Superman in Asgard period as some kind of feat or evidence he's close to the same level as Thor in terms of experience is just silly to me to begin with.

He's fought in wars, trained in the arts of war and combat, etc.

Originally posted by abhilegend
What are his on panel feats? Hawkman has fought in countless wars and remembers every fight he was in. Do you think he is more skilled than lets say captain america? This whole "he has countless years of experience" is all fine and dandy but in comics it means squat.

He's battled the likes of Hercules (Blood Oath notwithstanding) and Hulk evenly without Mjolnir, beaten down Loki and Fenris (both armed with bastardized Mjolnirs) weaponless, etc. He's not more skilled than Captain America, though neither is Superman so it's a moot point, and said Captain considers him to be extremely competent when it comes to the art of war and tactics and fought evenly beside him while depowered.

It would mean squat if it was just an oft repeated statement with no merit, but as most things, you have to dig for yourself to see if there's any substance to go alongside it.

Originally posted by Spire
Be my guest.

It's already being debated here and in half a dozen threads on this page of the forum alone already lol.

If you're of one mind of who'd win or the outcome of such a match, it's probably not going to change one way or the other.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Start the thread number 2125478 gazillion on internetz and see the result.

It'll be generally split down the middle or a 60/40 split one way or the other with fanboys on either side trying to start shit and ignoring what they don't like and getting defensive about anything that they don't really agree with. shrug

Originally posted by Spire
Cute thread.

Thor doesn't beat Superman with his hammer, let alone without it.

Thank you?

That you would even type that nonesense is more than enough to tell me you dont know what you're talking about.

Lol.

Shush. Read up on Thor (and superman for that matter) and come back when you've educated yourself.

Not drunk enough for this shit.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Not drunk enough for this shit.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
He's battled the likes of Hercules (Blood Oath notwithstanding) and Hulk evenly without Mjolnir, beaten down Loki and Fenris (both armed with bastardized Mjolnirs) weaponless, etc. He's not more skilled than Captain America, though neither is Superman so it's a moot point, and said Captain considers him to be extremely competent when it comes to the art of war and tactics and fought evenly beside him while depowered.

It would mean squat if it was just an oft repeated statement with no merit, but as most things, you have to dig for yourself to see if there's any substance to go alongside it.

Superman has battled evenly with orion and dominated wonder woman, beaten down foes with actual martial arts display, shown actual pressure point attacks. I'm not talking about thor being more skilled than cap, I'm talking about hawkman being more skilled than cap due to him being "experienced in countless wars".

Originally posted by Damborgson
Shush. Read up on Thor (and superman for that matter) and come back when you've educated yourself.

Can you send me some Superman and Thor comics? I have never read any.

I hope to one day argue and debate Superman vs Thor with the Thor experts here on KMC.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Not drunk enough for this shit.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Superman has battled evenly with orion and dominated wonder woman, beaten down foes with actual martial arts display, shown actual pressure point attacks. I'm not talking about thor being more skilled than cap, I'm talking about hawkman being more skilled than cap due to him being "experienced in countless wars".

Well, knowing pressure points doesn't make you some kind of zen master or something for one. Valkyrie and Sif know pressure point strikes and they've been out skilled by Thor before.

Random off topic rant: Does it bug you when people think that in order to be "skilled" in comics, you basically have to fight like a ninja or some shit? That always annoyed me. Like Captain America isn't as skilled as someone like Shang Chi or Batman because he doesn't do overly flashly bullshit. There's only so many ways you can throw a punch or kick. Stupid. Obviously not geared at you or anyone in particular, just a thought on my mind. Anyway...

And no, I wouldn't say Hawkman isn't more skilled than Captain America (who also has "countless war fighting experience". But Cap is God anyway.

Also:

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Not drunk enough for this shit.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank

Random off topic rant: Does it bug you when people think that in order to be "skilled" in comics, you basically have to fight like a ninja or some shit? That always annoyed me. Like Captain America isn't as skilled as someone like Shang Chi or Batman because he doesn't do overly flashly bullshit. There's only so many ways you can throw a punch or kick. Stupid. Obviously not geared at you or anyone in particular, just a thought on my mind. Anyway...


I've said this exact thing before in another thread. And I believe you agreed there too.


Ninjas are made of fail anyway.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
I've said this exact thing before in another thread. And I believe you agreed there too.


Ninjas are made of fail anyway.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank

Random off topic rant: Does it bug you when people think that in order to be "skilled" in comics, you basically have to fight like a ninja or some shit? That always annoyed me. Like Captain America isn't as skilled as someone like Shang Chi or Batman because he doesn't do overly flashly bullshit. There's only so many ways you can throw a punch or kick. Stupid. Obviously not geared at you or anyone in particular, just a thought on my mind. Anyway...



I've been in countless debates over that very thing

Originally posted by abhilegend
Who's saying that? I just want to know what has thordone with all these "millions of years of of experience"? How much sense does it to say experience doesn't mean an advantage.

Originally posted by quanchi112
How much sense does it to say experience doesn't mean an advantage.
In comics, it rarely does.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Well, knowing pressure points doesn't make you some kind of zen master or something for one. Valkyrie and Sif know pressure point strikes and they've been out skilled by Thor before.

Random off topic rant: Does it bug you when people think that in order to be "skilled" in comics, you basically have to fight like a ninja or some shit? That always annoyed me. Like Captain America isn't as skilled as someone like Shang Chi or Batman because he doesn't do overly flashly bullshit. There's only so many ways you can throw a punch or kick. Stupid. Obviously not geared at you or anyone in particular, just a thought on my mind. Anyway...

And no, I wouldn't say Hawkman isn't more skilled than Captain America (who also has "countless war fighting experience". But Cap is God anyway.

Also:
Yeah, it bugs me too but its the way comics are written. He's also trained with bruce to become a street level hero when his powers were gone. I don't think superman is any less skilled in throwing punches and kicks, its what he really does.

Originally posted by abhilegend
In comics, it rarely does.

Yeah, it bugs me too but its the way comics are written. He's also trained with bruce to become a street level hero when his powers were gone. I don't think superman is any less skilled in throwing punches and kicks, its what he really does. It's still a minor advantage.

Originally posted by quanchi112
It's still a minor advantage.
A very minor advantage which rarely ever gets mentioned in fights between two characters.

Thor wins a majority.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Thor wins a majority.
Nope.

Superman possible slight strength/durability advantage isn't enough to compensate for Thor's skill/exp edge.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Superman possible slight strength/durability advantage isn't enough to compensate for Thor's skill/exp edge.
We can argue about their skill level all day long. I haven't seen anything that makes me believe he has any skill advantage at all.

Originally posted by abhilegend
In comics, it rarely does.

Yeah, it bugs me too but its the way comics are written. He's also trained with bruce to become a street level hero when his powers were gone. I don't think superman is any less skilled in throwing punches and kicks, its what he really does.

That's why I said that I would give Thor 6/10 over Superman.I'm not one of the guys who will say it will be a stomp in favor of either Thor or Superman.

Originally posted by abhilegend
We can argue about their skill level all day long. I haven't seen anything that makes me believe he has any skill advantage at all.

Try reading more Thor comics.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-6OdeJ5lFV84/Tzp3DFb__hI/AAAAAAAAAyE/Fz2NlpTLMtQ/s1600/dis-gon-b-gud.gif

Originally posted by Silent Master
Try reading more Thor comics.
I've read them. Thank you for reminder.

Originally posted by Igniz
That's why I said that I would give Thor 6/10 over Superman.I'm not one of the guys who will say it will be a stomp in favor of either Thor or Superman.
I would say its 5.5-6/10 in favor of superman. Stronger, more durable, more agile and a better healing factor.

Originally posted by abhilegend
I would say its 5.5-6/10 in favor of superman. Stronger, more durable, more agile and a better healing factor.

That's fine with me too.Everyone has their interpretation of how this fight will end up Both combatants are skilled anyways.

Originally posted by Igniz
That's fine with me too.Everyone has their interpretation of how this fight will end up Both combatants are skilled anyways.
Okie dokie.

Hmm, I think Thor would take a slight majority. Almost as strong or as strong but his warrior training should give him a slight advantage. I know Superman is a good h2h fighter but Thor's just a notch more experianced.

Originally posted by abhilegend
A very minor advantage which rarely ever gets mentioned in fights between two characters. But you can agree an advantage all the same.

Originally posted by abhilegend
I would say its 5.5-6/10 in favor of superman. Stronger, more durable, more agile and a better healing factor. OP says only strength and skill, so I don't think Superman will have access to his Healing Actor.

As for edges, without his Super Speed I don't think Superman will be more agile then Thor, I'll give you strength and speed.

As for skill. I'm gonna give it to Thor for the same reasons I give the Superman the rather large speed gap advantage. Thor has a much more extensive list then Superman does and some feats that are better than Superman's.

Thor has been trained since he was kid and even then we've seen his skill. He's beaten Sif a very skilled warrior in unarmed and armed combat. He has often when needed to been able to rely on his warrior skills to over come obstacles countless times. Beating Man-BEast when he is using techniques from millions of years into the future.

I don't think Superman is as skilled as Thor and a lot like the speed advantage I don't think it would be close. Superman has good skill Thor has amazing skill.

I would say Thor would take a high majority 8/10 in this match. Superman's strength and durability edge means he can take a few but he's not beating Thor on skill alone, and I think it's wide enough that Superman's advantages won't mean a lot here.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Hmm, I think Thor would take a slight majority. Almost as strong or as strong but his warrior training should give him a slight advantage. I know Superman is a good h2h fighter but Thor's just a notch more experianced.

Wow.

Originally posted by Newjak
OP says only strength and skill, so I don't think Superman will have access to his Healing Actor.

As for edges, without his Super Speed I don't think Superman will be more agile then Thor, I'll give you strength and speed.

As for skill. I'm gonna give it to Thor for the same reasons I give the Superman the rather large speed gap advantage. Thor has a much more extensive list then Superman does and some feats that are better than Superman's.

Thor has been trained since he was kid and even then we've seen his skill. He's beaten Sif a very skilled warrior in unarmed and armed combat. He has often when needed to been able to rely on his warrior skills to over come obstacles countless times. Beating Man-BEast when he is using techniques from millions of years into the future.

I don't think Superman is as skilled as Thor and a lot like the speed advantage I don't think it would be close. Superman has good skill Thor has amazing skill.

I would say Thor would take a high majority 8/10 in this match. Superman's strength and durability edge means he can take a few but he's not beating Thor on skill alone, and I think it's wide enough that Superman's advantages won't mean a lot here.
So we are taking their durability away too? Its part of superman's durability.
Nope, kal has done nightwing-esque flips while depowered in the tower of fate.
I don't see it any more extensive than superman's. Man beast was taken down by thor's strength, superman regularly stalemates orion who is a peer of him in strength and one of the best martial artist too. He's also beaten kobra while in a foreign body to himself. You think superman has never been depowered. He has taken actual rigourous training from bruce for being a street level hero when he was depowered and took down a horde of parademon once while depowered. Anyone thinking thor taking 8/10 in such a match based upon a few skill showing while discarding actual martial arts display from superman are simply deluding themselves.
For starters kal can actually stun thor with pressure point attacks and has done it on three different characters batman, tempest and a kryptonian.

Didn't the Kobra fight consist of Superman throwing 3 punches? It's hardly the epic martial art showdown that people want it to be.

Originally posted by carver9
Wow.

You disagree? uhuh

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
You disagree? uhuh

I'm more shocked than anything.

Originally posted by abhilegend
So we are taking their durability away too? Its part of superman's durability.
Nope, kal has done nightwing-esque flips while depowered in the tower of fate.
I don't see it any more extensive than superman's. Man beast was taken down by thor's strength, superman regularly stalemates orion who is a peer of him in strength and one of the best martial artist too. He's also beaten kobra while in a foreign body to himself. You think superman has never been depowered. He has taken actual rigourous training from bruce for being a street level hero when he was depowered and took down a horde of parademon once while depowered. Anyone thinking thor taking 8/10 in such a match based upon a few skill showing while discarding actual martial arts display from superman is simply deluding themselves. I didn't take away their durability. I said Superman doesn't get his healing factor which isn't a part of his durability. Durability is his ability to resist damage, his HF is his ability to recover from it.

So doing a flip makes him more agile, I'm sure a depowered Thor has done much better or at the very least something similar.

And it's not a few skill showings, it's the entire span of Thor's career. He does it constantly.

I'm not saying Superman isn't skilled but I think the gap between their skill level is far wider than the strength gap between them.

Originally posted by carver9
I'm more shocked than anything.

Why? biscuits

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Why? biscuits

Lol...you already know why.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Didn't the Kobra fight consist of Superman throwing 3 punches? It's hardly the epic martial art showdown that people want it to be.
How was man beast beaten by thor? I thought I heard Jake complaining about some flashy displays of ninja like fighting being the only measure of skill in comics? So pressure points and flips aren't indicative of skill, beating martial artist isn't impressive too? What are we looking for here?

Originally posted by Newjak
I didn't take away their durability. I said Superman doesn't get his healing factor which isn't a part of his durability. Durability is his ability to resist damage, his HF is his ability to recover from it.

So doing a flip makes him more agile, I'm sure a depowered Thor has done much better or at the very least something similar.

And it's not a few skill showings, it's the entire span of Thor's career. He does it constantly.

I'm not saying Superman isn't skilled but I think the gap between their skill level is far wider than the strength gap between them.
No, you are taking away a part of his durability. OP didn't took anything away, it just said that they would use only their strength and skill. Durability was taken as default.
Post the scans. We would see who is more agile.
It spans entire career of superman too. He is a brawler by default.
I have still seen nothing that makes me believe that thor is so much skilled than thor. I haven't seen anything from thor that tops stomping CSA in a few panels.

Originally posted by abhilegend
How was man beast beaten by thor? I thought I heard Jake complaining about some flashy displays of ninja like fighting being the only measure of skill in comics? So pressure points and flips aren't indicative of skill, beating martial artist isn't impressive too? What are we looking for here?

So, the Kobra fight is about as impressive as the Man-beast fight, I can live with that.

Originally posted by abhilegend
No, you are taking away a part of his durability. OP didn't took anything away, it just said that they would use only their strength and skill. Durability was taken as default.
Post the scans. We would see who is more agile.
It spans entire career of superman too. He is a brawler by default.
I have still seen nothing that makes me believe that thor is so much skilled than thor. I haven't seen anything from thor that tops stomping CSA in a few panels. It's not a part of his Durability it is another power just like it is for Wolverine. And I took the opening post to mean any powers besides strength and H2H skill would be removed from this fight considering it specifically says no Super Speed to with the exception being Durability since they would both die from one hit without it.

Did I say Thor is more agile I simply said I don't see Superman being more agile and with their level of strength jumping around shouldn't be a problem for either one.

Good for you I guess. Thor has more years experience, way way more showings of skill use then Superman ever had powered and depowered both.

Thor ftw.

Originally posted by Newjak
It's not a part of his Durability it is another power just like it is for Wolverine. And I took the opening post to mean any powers besides strength and H2H skill would be removed from this fight considering it specifically says no Super Speed to with the exception being Durability since they would both die from one hit without it.

Did I say Thor is more agile I simply said I don't see Superman being more agile and with their level of strength jumping around shouldn't be a problem for either one.

Good for you I guess. Thor has more years experience, way way more showings of skill use then Superman ever had powered and depowered both.
Nope, OP didn't depower them. He just restricted them using their active powers. HF isn't an active power of superman which he can negate by will.
You said thor has done better than a flip so he is more agile. I asked proof. You denied your claim. Classic. By that reasoning hulk would be the agilest one there is!
You're not the first guy who said that in this thread and certainly wouldn't be last. Thor could've trained for every moment of his life and he still wouldn't be more skilled without on panel proofs.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
I've said this exact thing before in another thread. And I believe you agreed there too.


Ninjas are made of fail anyway.

Yeah. MA skill is very often equated to the Asian systems. Western systems of combat are often overlooked. As are some of the southeast Asian systems for that matter. Point is that you don't need to fight like Crouching tiger hidden dragon to be skilled in MA and combatives.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Nope, OP didn't depower them. He just restricted them using their active powers. HF isn't an active power of superman which he can negate by will.
You said thor has done better than a flip so he is more agile. I asked proof. You denied your claim. Classic. By that reasoning hulk would be the agilest one there is!
You're not the first guy who said that in this thread and certainly wouldn't be last. Thor could've trained for every moment of his life and he still wouldn't be more skilled without on panel proofs.


Originally posted by Damborgson
Pre Flashpoint Superman vs Thor in Hand to Hand combat. No other abilities will be used. (No flying, no super speed, no lightning, no Durok droppers, etc...) Just their strength and skill. Who takes it?

Originally posted by Silent Master

So whoever punches first kills the other if we take it as it is.baka

Originally posted by abhilegend
Nope, OP didn't depower them. He just restricted them using their active powers. HF isn't an active power of superman which he can negate by will.
You said thor has done better than a flip so he is more agile. I asked proof. You denied your claim. Classic. By that reasoning hulk would be the agilest one there is!
You're not the first guy who said that in this thread and certainly wouldn't be last. Thor could've trained for every moment of his life and he still wouldn't be more skilled without on panel proofs. If that's the case then yes his HF would still be here.

No I said and if you read it you said because Superman can do a flip that makes him more agile, and I said that Thor has probably done something better or similar. So doing one flip won't make him more agile Thor. Maybe you misread what I was trying to say.

I never stated Thor was more agile.

Originally posted by Newjak
If that's the case then yes his HF would still be here.

No I said and if you read it you said because Superman can do a flip that makes him more agile, and I said that Thor has probably done something better or similar. So doing one flip won't make him more agile Thor. Maybe you misread what I was trying to say.

I never stated Thor was more agile.
That's the case here.
He's done these types of flips multiple times. I want to see thor doing better than this.
http://img433.imageshack.us/my.php?image=162be.jpg

http://img433.imageshack.us/my.php?image=177ec.jpg

Pretty sure Thor in the Son of Asgard mini was doing flips and rolls while fighting dragons and crap.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Pretty sure Thor in the Son of Asgard mini was doing flips and rolls while fighting dragons and crap.
Post the scans then.

I'll have to find them.

Either way, being completely serious, neither one of those guys is going to be doing a bunch of needless flips and rolls in combat. That's stupid.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I'll have to find them.

Either way, being completely serious, neither one of those guys is going to be doing a bunch of needless flips and rolls in combat. That's stupid.
Why not?
baka

Originally posted by abhilegend
Why not?
baka

Serious question?

Because in a fight stripped of powers aside from strength and durability, I don't see Superman suddenly cartwheeling and doing combat rolls in the midst of the fight against Thor. And neither would Thor.

Black Adam>Superman>Thor (in strength)

In power though , Black Adam>Thor>Superman


Since this is h2h superman beats hor

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Serious question?

Because in a fight stripped of powers aside from strength and durability, I don't see Superman suddenly cartwheeling and doing combat rolls in the midst of the fight against Thor. And neither would Thor.
That would be ****ing hilarious though. I can't stop laughing imagining thor doing cartwheels against someone in combat.

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
Black Adam>Superman>Thor (in strength)

In power though , Black Adam>Thor>Superman


Since this is h2h superman beats hor

Absolutely incorrect.

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
Black Adam>Superman>Thor (in strength)

In power though , Black Adam>Thor>Superman


Since this is h2h superman beats hor

So, Strength is the only thing that matters in HTH fights?

^Its big c.

Originally posted by abhilegend
^Its big c.

Good point.

^The guy made a thread about eating mjolnir once.

Originally posted by abhilegend
^The guy made a thread about eating mjolnir once.

Matter-Eater-Lad could do it!

Originally posted by abhilegend
That would be ****ing hilarious though. I can't stop laughing imagining thor doing cartwheels against someone in combat. It would be a devastating attack considering their strength levels and how fast they can launch bodies

Originally posted by Newjak
It would be a devastating attack considering their strength levels and how fast they can launch bodies
You ruined my moment by a serious answer.
nahuh

Originally posted by abhilegend
You ruined my moment by a serious answer.
nahuh They would also probably cause light to bend around them so it looked like a move from the power puff girls, does that make you feel better

Originally posted by Newjak
They would also probably cause light to bend around them so it looked like a move from the power puff girls, does that make you feel better

Nerd.
uhuh

Originally posted by abhilegend

Nerd.
uhuh I'm on a comic book site I take that as a compliment

uhuh

Originally posted by Newjak
I'm on a comic book site I take that as a compliment

uhuh
Of course you do.
medal

Originally posted by abhilegend
Of course you do.
medal Yay number 1!

You know I have in my mind Thor and Superman cartwheeling into each other...

I've never thought of that before but it is awesome.

Originally posted by Newjak
You know I have in my mind Thor and Superman cartwheeling into each other...

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-qDdnwPOuokU/TxNMk4iUxFI/AAAAAAAAAoI/HyLL3sHS4jg/s1600/clint-eastwood-disgusted-gif.gif

Originally posted by Newjak
You know I have in my mind Thor and Superman cartwheeling into each other
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/My%20photos/Lulz/kramer.gif

Originally posted by abhilegend
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/My%20photos/Lulz/kramer.gif Just before I go on I want to make sure what do you think that means in case there is something I'm missing

Originally posted by Newjak
Just before I go on I want to make sure what do you think that means in case there is something I'm missing
Nothing, I was just messing with you.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Nothing, I was just messing with you. Ok just making sure before I made an ass out of myself.

Superman

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I'll have to find them.

Either way, being completely serious, neither one of those guys is going to be doing a bunch of needless flips and rolls in combat. That's stupid.

Hope this helps.

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k10/paladin_04/Thorsonofasgard.jpg

Superman

Trained by:

Batman, Wonder Woman, Wild cat, Kryptonian Military training, Rao VO, Mogul's war arena, Wresting in high school, Mogul's martial arts, and thousand years in asgard vs Magical beings, so he had to be on his toes and IIRC He was also trained by Karate Kid at some point.

Defeated Kobra in Batman's body while He was in Kobra's body

Defeated Batman twice while Batman had Super powers

I believe Superman has the advantage in H2H

Going by feats, Thor is more skilled.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Going by feats, Thor is more skilled.

H2h or armed combat?

Both.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Going by feats, Thor is more skilled.
Nope.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Going by feats, Thor is more skilled.

Going by panel evidence thor's h2h skill is more impresive by his bio than his actual showings.

His ARMED combat is different as he mostly uses weapons, but h2h? Not really

He has acknowledge that hercs greco wrestling moves are superior to his and this was stated by the op HAND TO HAND.

No weapon to hand

Hercules' wrestling is superior to everyone's.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Hercules' wrestling is superior to everyone's.
No, its his nut-shot that is superior to everyone's.ha-som

Originally posted by biensalsa
Going by panel evidence thor's h2h skill is more impresive by his bio than his actual showings.

His ARMED combat is different as he mostly uses weapons, but h2h? Not really

By feats, His armed and unarmed skill is above Superman's.

Originally posted by Silent Master
By feats, His armed and unarmed skill is above Superman's.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Nope.

Originally posted by abhilegend


Agreed

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Hercules' wrestling is superior to everyone's.

Agreed, except Wonder Woman's

And there are many other fighters who are better at H2H than Herc, overall not only talking about greko wrestling style

Superman wins 6/10

Thor loses 4/10

Superman wins 600 000/1 000 000

Thor loses 400 000/1 000 000

Pretty cut and dry really. Actually, it doesn't look as close when you make it out of a million...

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Superman wins 6/10

Thor loses 4/10

Superman wins 600 000/1 000 000

Thor loses 400 000/1 000 000

Pretty cut and dry really. Actually, it doesn't look as close when you make it out of a million...

Originally posted by biensalsa
Agreed, except Wonder Woman's

And there are many other fighters who are better at H2H than Herc, overall not only talking about greko wrestling style

You think Wonder Woman is a better wrestler than Hercules?

Probably, but Superman's not one of them. He invented pankration, after all.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Superman wins 6/10

Thor loses 4/10

Superman wins 600 000/1 000 000

Thor loses 400 000/1 000 000

Pretty cut and dry really. Actually, it doesn't look as close when you make it out of a million...

If Thor only loses 4/10, how does Superman win 6/10?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
You think Wonder Woman is a better wrestler than Hercules?

Probably, but Superman's not one of them. He invented pankration, after all.
Hercules isn't in this thread though. Pressure point attacks>wrestling moves though.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Hercules isn't in this thread though. Pressure point attacks>wrestling moves though.
They are not.

IRL, wrestling and other similar styles are some of the most dominant in MMA.

Originally posted by Silent Master
If Thor only loses 4/10, how does Superman win 6/10? Because I have no idea why I used the word "loses"
Full on Carver mode. I forgot to beat off today. That must be it.

Either way. Superman wins.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
You think Wonder Woman is a better wrestler than Hercules?

Probably, but Superman's not one of them. He invented pankration, after all.

Yes and Thor is no Hercules when it comes to H2H.

OP stated H2H not armed combat.

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/Fighting%20experience/th_Supermanv2163SUPERSPEEDPRESSUREPOINTVSTEMPTEST.jpg

Superman (mind you I would choose Thor in a fight with all powers enabled)

Originally posted by NemeBro
They are not.

IRL, wrestling and other similar styles are some of the most dominant in MMA.
They are in comics.
Batman stunned diana with a nerve strike, mantis koed thor by pressure points. Street levlers stun top tiers regularly with these types of attacks.

Originally posted by biensalsa
Yes and Thor is no Hercules when it comes to H2H.

OP stated H2H not armed combat.

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/Fighting%20experience/th_Supermanv2163SUPERSPEEDPRESSUREPOINTVSTEMPTEST.jpg

Thor's stalemated Hercules before in H2H. And that single instance of Thor conceded that Hercules is slightly his better in that arena which occured in Blood Oath doesn't invalidate everything else, either.

I never said this wasn't H2H.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Thor's stalemated Hercules before in H2H. And that single instance of Thor conceded that Hercules is slightly his better in that arena which occured in Blood Oath doesn't invalidate everything else, either.

I never said this wasn't H2H.
Just like superman vs orion.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Thor's stalemated Hercules before in H2H. And that single instance of Thor conceded that Hercules is slightly his better in that arena which occured in Blood Oath doesn't invalidate everything else, either.

I never said this wasn't H2H.

Superman has defeated fighters who are experts on more than one fighting style, with out powers or in equal terms.

Superman is such an expert fighter that He can even gauge who has better fighting skills between Karate Kid and Batman.

Pressure points, Military training, Martial arts from 3 worlds, Boxing, Arena fight and Wrestling kind of implies who has better odds at this.

Guy pls, Thor already lost in comics, he would lose in a Forum battle with all powers allowed. Let the Thor fans have at least this one small victory... don't be so brutal. durthor

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Guy pls, Thor already lost in comics, he would lose in a Forum battle with all powers allowed. Let the Thor fans have at least this one small victory... don't be so brutal. durthor
hysterical

Originally posted by biensalsa
Superman has defeated fighters who are experts on more than one fighting style, with out powers or in equal terms.

Superman is such an expert fighter that He can even gauge who has better fighting skills between Karate Kid and Batman.

Pressure points, Military training, Martial arts from 3 worlds, Boxing, Arena fight and Wrestling kind of implies who has better odds at this.

Jesus Christ, Superman has h2h feats but not as many as Thor, Superman loses. Why is this thread still going on?

Originally posted by biensalsa
Superman has defeated fighters who are experts on more than one fighting style, with out powers or in equal terms.

Superman is such an expert fighter that He can even gauge who has better fighting skills between Karate Kid and Batman.

Pressure points, Military training, Martial arts from 3 worlds, Boxing, Arena fight and Wrestling kind of implies who has better odds at this. You know cause deciding who is the better fighter between KK and Batman is so hard an I right

Thor uses is fighting skills way more than Superman does. You know that instance where Superman is using his abilities and all of a sudden he realizes on of them work so he turns on the super speed. Well that's Thor with Fighting.

Originally posted by Newjak
You know cause deciding who is the better fighter between KK and Batman is so hard an I right

Thor uses is fighting skills way more than Superman does. You know that instance where Superman is using his abilities and all of a sudden he realizes on of them work so he turns on the super speed. Well that's Thor with Fighting.
English please.

Originally posted by abhilegend
English please. Sorry I just woke up but I'm pretty sure you can still make out what I was trying to say


When things go down hill in a fight Thor relies on fighting skill a lot like Superman relies on his speed.

Originally posted by Newjak
Sorry I just woke up but I'm pretty sure you can still make out what I was trying to say


When things go down hill in a fight Thor relies on fighting skill a lot like Superman relies on his speed.
Don't worry, I was just messing with you. I don't see how that determines who is more skilled?

^ *faceplam* It's gonna be a long night...

Originally posted by abhilegend
Don't worry, I was just messing with you. I don't see how that determines who is more skilled? There's a reason it's called a skill. The more you use it the sharper and better you are gonna be with it, the less you use the less adept you will be at it.

Thor uses it whether he is powered , depowered, altered. His skill level is actually a fairly big part of his character.