Originally posted by NemeBro
Only plenty of the moves done in even collegiate, rules-based wrestling can be devastating when not performed on a mat (Or even performed on one, during practice I nearly blacked out when I was thrown on my head).
I like how irrelevent your point is. Try again with something relevant. Oh, and any and all throws done in any MMA match, ever, are straight up Greco-Roman and Freestyle wrestling moves, as defined by the Olympic rulebook and NCAA rules, right?
Originally posted by NemeBro
The styles not being submission-based means... Well nothing. They are used in MMA to maintain control and perform takedowns, primarily.
Sure, if you want to look over the most devastating point to your entire argument! I accept your concession.
Originally posted by NemeBro
I never brought up striking, you are straw-manning my position and only discrediting your position by continuously harping on about something I never addressed because I was never speaking of it in the first place.
No no no no...you misunderstand. I brought up striking, not you. I brought it up a while back. It was a clarification of my position, not yours. It is your own fault for continuing down...and get this...a strawman argument path just to be right. I could have sworn I called that, already, too...
Originally posted by NemeBro
The bottom line is that you are under the impression that collegiate wrestling has no applications in an IRL fight (Am I understanding you?). Which is wrong, as if a fight enters closer than striking distance (Very possible), someone who is a skilled wrestler can take advantage of that.
You are definitely misunderstanding me. I, under no uncertain terms, clarified exactly what I meant. For that exact clarification to where there is no possible room for error, read my very last post to you (quoting it is unnecessary, imo).
Originally posted by NemeBro
You assertion that wrestling when applied to MMA as compared to actual wrestling tournaments is as obvious as it is irrelevant.
Sure, it is definitely irrelevant IF we were talking about something...well...other than Joseph Smith who would definitely not be pulling off suplexes and armbars (and some suplexes can get your ass disqualified and possibly even banned from certain organizations).
Again, I clarified exactly what I meant. You will not see someone wrestling in an MMA match in a similar manner to what you would see in an NCAA match.
Originally posted by NemeBro
The same is true of many martial arts when applied to MMA, such as people with boxing backgrounds training to incorporate the possibility of kicks, shoots, or grapples into their stance, so that they may defend against them. The entire purpose of MMA is to take different styles and modify/combine them to achieve a sort of "perfection" as a fighter. That is just why your assertion is obvious, though.
I can appreciate you going off on an irrelevant tangent about something I already know (and much better than you...oh yeaaaaah).
Originally posted by NemeBro
It is irrelevant because, even though a "mere" wrestler won't be as complete a fighter as an MMA fighter, it is still an advantage over someone who isn't trained at all, like Jesus.
While I can certainly appreciate you actually posting on topic for once, I point you back to my previous post on this:
"It is very hard to beat someone up with a martial art that specifically forbids beating someone. If you strike someone in wrestling, that's a penalty."
Originally posted by NemeBro
Now I will admit that my original post's premise didn't really include this much detail or explanation, but frankly I didn't believe it was necessary, I thought you would understand what I meant (Or at least reach that conclusion on your own).
I knew exactly what you meant. But you were trying to translate (Mormon pun!) friendly barnyard matches to MMA fights: that's like taking a shit on the mirror of a giant telescope and then demanding we look for quasars: we are just going to see and smell shit.
Originally posted by NemeBro
You are playing a semantics game with the "beat somebody up" thing. There are few people who don't know how to, to some extent, strike someone. Will they be as efficient as a boxer, kickboxer, or muay thai practitioner? No, but they still could. We can assume that Joe Smith to some extent knows how to hit someone, and his wrestling provides him with a h2h advantage Jesus lacks, along with (I assume, I admittedly don't know shit about the guy personally) a conditioned physique (Wrestlers typically are very well physically conditioned, even my fat ass back in the day could run a few miles without stopping, and outperform most of my school in stamina (Albeit by my team's standards, I was still pretty unfit) , though not anymore
). Jesus on the other hand, is probably still reasonably strong and conditioned as a carpenter, but I doubt it would be to the extent of a wrestler (Though I could be wrong).
It is not semantics. You think Lesnar went from NCAA collegiate wrestling as a senior straight into the MMA ring? Of course not: he not only had to untrain himself from his almost 15 years of "by the rules" wrestling, he also had to train up in other areas of martial arts.
And Jesus, based on on-screen feats, is ultra-conditioned. He can carry a cross for a bit less than a kilometer...after a shit ton of beat-downs and blood-loss. We are approaching if not significantly exceeding super-human conditioning at this point. (In real life, the Roman soldiers had Simon carry the cross when Jesus could not carry it the rest of the way).
Congrats on the physical achievements. Stop being a lazy-ass and get back into shape. You are at the peak of your manhood and you will not be this monstrous the rest of your life! You're wasting an opportunity to be beastly.
Originally posted by NemeBro
dadudemon, your site deliberately and clearly states that Greco-Roman and Freestyle are used frequently, for their takedowns and shit. You can't actually post that as proof while simultaneously trying to use it as evidence that they are not types of wrestling used in MMA.
For some reason, you omit the most important portion of my argument: it is not the highschool or college shit they are referring to. The other site I brought up lists a bunch of things you cannot do which are explitely things you DO use in most MMA fights.
Originally posted by NemeBro
Also... Are you mad?
Why are you mad? I can usually tell when you are being your douchey, jokey, vaguely trollish self, but you seem legitimately angry right now.
Wait..I'm mad? I used two smilie faces to indicate I was being a b*tchass about it. Even my opening arguments were a very plain and childish mockery form of your arguments. I even gave Joseph Smith a playful nickname.
Also, you got my labels wrong:
"..douchey, jokey, perverted, childish, and verbose self."
HOWEVER! You seem to be super serials about this discussion. Why? Why is MMA so dear to you? Do the muscly men get you wet when they roll around?
