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Who is the strongest Naruto character? Post here the name and a badass image of him me first

Minato Namikaze

http://api.photoshop.com/v1.0/accounts/33e4d1c3dffd4375a6ed67f112a0ab65/assets/26c2cd28471d4deea2150757525e362a/renditions/1024.jpg?md=1334285010000

The strongest?

http://images.wikia.com/naruto/images/e/ed/Sage_Of_6_Paths.PNG

The strongest based on what we've seen onscreen?

http://www.flixya.com/files-photo/c/a/n/cantstopranting-2457660.jpg

The strongest technically living character? Either Tobi or Naruto.

Random Love Letter Guy is above such threads by the way. As is his pet.

Well, Minato can defeat Tobi, well, he did it and for Naruto it would be Naruto but with difficulty. I cant tell for Madara though but it would be a hell of a fight and for the the Sage, well, lets exclude him xD.

Madara would kill Minato lol.

And Tobi with his Six Paths would kill Minato.

Random Love Letter Guy and Wild Boar.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Random Love Letter Guy and Wild Boar.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Random Love Letter Guy is above such threads by the way. As is his pet.

Originally posted by ichigo12
Well, Minato can defeat Tobi, well, he did it and for Naruto it would be Naruto but with difficulty. I cant tell for Madara though but it would be a hell of a fight and for the the Sage, well, lets exclude him xD.

Minato beat original-flavor Tobi in a tough fight. Upgraded Tobi is much more dangerous.

Why do you think I didn't post a picture?

This thread can't handle it.

Also shut up *****.

2nd Mizukage.

http://dailyanimeart.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/water_tyrant_by_rigoberto60-d4alv5r.jpg

Dust Release can suck on these nuts.

I was not.

Originally posted by NemeBro
I was not.

Not what?

Oonoki got OWNED xD

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Madara would kill Minato lol.

And Tobi with his Six Paths would kill Minato.

You mean Minato would kill Tobi (with six paths) and Madara (if we assume current Madara was in meatbag form instead of resurrected clay form, of course)?


At the same time, Minato would probably lose. 1 v. 1? Minato would beat both of them..




Minato is a very good 1 v 1 fighter.



However, overall power obviously goes to Madara. Sage does not count because we have not seen the sage in battle.

Yes, The Sage is out.

Come on, just say that Kabuto is above Madara, you know you want to

^ Point. K does come before M. vin

Mito

Uzumaki Mito? Why?
Just a question, just a question.

She could handle Hashirama's wood.

The scratch marks were too severe for even Hashirama's medical ninjutsu.

Originally posted by ichigo12
Uzumaki Mito? Why? why?.... hmm.. good question

i'm stumped

Just tell me why Mito is the strongest Naruto character.

It's either Madara, the masked man, or Hiruzen. It's difficult to conclude which of these are the strongest. However there's evidence for why each and everyone of them would be considered the strongest.

But you should probably take a look at the Naruto tier list in the Naruto discussion thread. Because Q99 has is probably the most knowledgeable member on the topic.

On that particular tier list, Madara is the strongest character. Tobi/Naruto take second.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
On that particular tier list, Madara is the strongest character. Tobi/Naruto take second.
Madara is the strongest as far as feats are concerned.

We don't know how powerful Tobi is, but we know that in his current state he might rival and even surpass Madara in terms of power -- it wouldn't come as a shock if that was the case.

Hizuren was praised as the most powerful hokage of all time, putting him above both Hashirama and Minato. In fact he even took out Hashirama and Tobirama when Orochimaru reanimated them with Edo tensei. But Madara is clearly stronger than Hashirama at this point considering how he has his power.

The answer is. We don't know, and there's a possibility that we never will.

Originally posted by ichigo12
Just tell me why Mito is the strongest Naruto character. Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
She could handle Hashirama's wood. Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
The scratch marks were too severe for even Hashirama's medical ninjutsu.

Hashirama and Minato were stronger than Hiruzen, when Hashirama was revived Kishi did not put his full power, and even without the power, Hashirama got to be a great problem to Hiruzen

^ Surprisingly, yes.

In terms of observed feats?

Surprisingly, I'd say Naruto with his partnership with Kurama. At his current power they could plow through Madara's trees and are strong enough to break his Susano'o too.

What about actual Tobi of the Rinnegan, we havent seen all of his power.

Current Tobi with Paths would stomp Minato. And there's the likelihood that the Rinnegan does not go blind when Izanagi is used.

So yeah, he's easily up there.

With the Rinnegan you cant do Izanagi.

Izanagi needs Uchiha & Senju DNA, and the Sage of the Six Paths had the Rinnegan, not the Sharingan. So Tobi can still use Izanagi or the version the Sage used, which was much more powerful.

Does Tobi has Senju's DNA?

Yes.

But when and how he get them?

Dunno, but seeing as his Izanagi lasted for 10 minutes, he definitely has Senju DNA.

AAAA yeah I remember, when he fighted Konan yea.

And remember his big underground Senju thing and all the Zetsu.

At the time he implied he was Madara who got it during his fight with Hashirama, but...

But what?

He's obviously not Madara. He certainly has Senju DNA but unless one believes the theory that Tobi is a clone of Madara or something, then he is a completely different person.

Originally posted by ichigo12
AAAA yeah I remember, when he fighted Konan yea.

Yes. Though we do not know how exactly he got the DNA (we don't know if he got Hashirama's DNA at VotE) he probably has Hashirama's DNA, seeing as every other Senju in the story is of little importance when compared to Hashirama.

Well, considering Tobi has access to the wooden Hashirama clone I think it's pretty safe to say he got his hand in his DNA.

Isn't the masked man linked to the Zetsu based on the hints?

He's the black Zetsu, duh.

Hey, does Zetsu is still alive?

Originally posted by psycho gundam
why?.... hmm.. good question

i'm stumped



Originally posted by ichigo12
Just tell me why Mito is the strongest Naruto character.


lol


Just saw this clever trolling. Made me lulz. New guy is so innocent to the dramaz.





Originally posted by Robtard
He's the black Zetsu, duh.

Nah. Black Zetsu was killed. The others said something about their original being killed.

... Robtard reads Naruto?

Well then.

I think just the original White Zetsu was killed (by Sasuke). The Black Zetsu was beaten (By Mei, Chojuro, and a Naruto clone) but I don't think killed.

Originally posted by Q99
I think just the original White Zetsu was killed (by Sasuke). The Black Zetsu was beaten (By Mei, Chojuro, and a Naruto clone) but I don't think killed.

That one dude....cut it in half with his extendy chakra blade sword thingie, remember? I think African American* (cause it is not PC to call them black, man) zetsu is dead.

*haermm2

Yea, but I don't think being cut in half is fatal for it Iirc it even had a thought about it'd take a long time to recover from that.

Originally posted by ichigo12
Hashirama was revived Kishi did not put his full power, and even without the power, Hashirama got to be a great problem to Hiruzen
http://i.imgur.com/qC1Po.png

Hashirama and Tobirama were restored to their true forms.

On top of that we have entires from data book one and two confirming and repeating that he was the strongest hokage who ever lived.

According to canon he's in fact the strongest. Or at the very least stronger than Hashirama, Tobirama, and Minato. Since Tsunade and Danzo weren't hokage when the second data book was published.

Sarutobi? He wasn't revived, the revived one was Senju Tobirama, the 2nd Hokage.



If you mean Sarutobi you must be really kidding me. Never in the world he would be stronger than Minato or Hashirama, maybe stronger than Tobirama but stronger than 1st and 4th never.

Originally posted by ichigo12
Sarutobi? He wasn't revived, the revived one was Senju Tobirama, the 2nd Hokage.
Yeah, I got the names mixed up. The point is that he defeated the first- and second hokage in their true forms with the advantages of being resurrected with Edo Tensei.

Originally posted by ichigo12
If you mean Sarutobi you must be really kidding me. Never in the world he would be stronger than Minato or Hashirama, maybe stronger than Tobirama but stronger than 1st and 4th never.
According to the manga and the data book entires he is.

http://i.imgur.com/zscCW.png

"プロフェッサー"と崇められる歴代最強の火影

Translation: "The professor" honored as the strongest Hokage of all time.

"歴代最強""天才"など,三代目火影を形容する言葉はに満ちている

Translation: "History's strongest", "genius", there are many titles given to the third Hokage.


歴代最強の火影と謳われた、

Translation: Was honored as the strongest Hokage in history.

Just because people thought so doesn't make it true. Theres no actual evidence of him being stronger than Hashirama, and he'd need some to content with his insane strength.

Not to mention we now have more of an idea on Hashirama's moveset. He seems not to have used things that would come in handy, like his clones or pollen(I really don't know of what Sarutobi could have done against something like this).

So using the fact that Sarutobi beat Hashirama in a fight to prove that he is stronger is kinda faulty, since we now know that Hashirama didn't use everything he had. It's like saying Sage ModeNaruto>Pain or saying Karui>Naruto.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Just because people thought so doesn't make it true. Theres no actual evidence of him being stronger than Hashirama, and he'd need some to content with his insane strength.
Actually everything I posted is evidence.

Furthermore he also defeated Hashirama and Tobirama in their true forms with Edo Tensei regeneration -- regeneration they used when Hizuren blew their limbs off -- and severely injured Orochimaru, and Hizuren was severely weakened by age at this point.

Now how many times did Hashirama defeat Hizuren to sort of negate that defeat? -- None.

Yeah it's evidence...but it's flimsy lol.

Karui beat the shit out Naruto, the only person to have hurt him more being Sasuke and Kabuto. She is obviously >Naruto. And >Pain by extension.

Not to mention since Hiruzen ended up using a suicide technique to beat them, I hardly call it a victory.

Originally posted by dadudemon

Nah. Black Zetsu was killed. The others said something about their original being killed.

Because in anime, everything is as it appears. Right.

The reason he used the technique was because of the regeneration through Edo Tensei. Dealing with that type of enemies weren't his forte.

And Naruto is loosely based on a rock-paper-scissor model. So you can't necessarily apply a scaling model.

In the end any information about Hashirama and his abilities comes from speculation based on the hype spewed out by Madara, and Madara never claimed that Hashirama was the strongest hokage either.

Iruka was the one who telled that Hiruzen was considered the strongest, but beacuse Hiruzen was the Hokage he knewed since childhood but he did not see Hashirama, Tobirama or Minato so beacuse Hiruzen is the only Hokage he knows he speculate he is the strongest. Note: And that was at the beginning of the series and Kishi, I think, wasn't planning to show Hashirama's, Tobirama's and Minato's abilities.

Madara doesn't know any of the other Hokage lol. Except Tsunade I guess. But he does go on about how people called Hashirama the strongest shinobi and how he was so much better than the Kage he is fighting. While using his really good techniques.

Whereas Hiruzen has...wank from Kabuto, who has likened Hashirama to the Sage himself, and Iruka, who is a nobody. He doesn't have many impressive techniques either.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
But he does go on about how people called Hashirama the strongest shinobi
He was never referred to as the strongest.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Whereas Hiruzen has...wank from Kabuto, who has likened Hashirama to the Sage himself, and Iruka, who is a nobody. He doesn't have many impressive techniques either.
Hashirama was never linked to the sage. Well technically the sage's offsprings became the Uchiha and Senju, but aside from that there's nothing as far as I recall.

Besides didn't Kabuto claim that he was closer to the sage than any other character in the war? He doesn't have any Senju- or Uchiha blood running in his veins.

Hizuren is the strongest.

How would Hiruzan beat Madara?

Or worse, a Madara in control of the Kyuubi?

Originally posted by Astner
He was never referred to as the strongest.

http://www.mangadata.com/manga/naruto/576/english/15/

"People called him the strongest shinobi."

Originally posted by Astner
Hashirama was never linked to the sage. Well technically the sage's offsprings became the Uchiha and Senju, but aside from that there's nothing as far as I recall.

http://www.mangadata.com/manga/naruto/575/english/3/

"Fairy Tale just like the Rikudo Senin."

Originally posted by Astner
Besides didn't Kabuto claim that he was closer to the sage than any other character in the war? He doesn't have any Senju- or Uchiha blood running in his veins.

In that he discovered that the Rinnegan evolves from the sharingan.

Originally posted by Astner
Hizuren is the strongest.

Perhaps if you're willing to take the statements of him being so good at face value. I am not. Based solely on the moves Madara is using from Hashirama's moveset, Hashirama is the strongest Hokage. As for fights, Hashirama has a better feat than "beating" two kage level ninja, in that he stopped Madara and Kurama. Hiruzen was unable to handle the Kyuubi when it attacked the village and was waiting for Minato(who doesn't exactly have the most large scaled jutsu) to come and take care of it.

Originally posted by Astner
He was never referred to as the strongest.


Hashirama was never linked to the sage. Well technically the sage's offsprings became the Uchiha and Senju, but aside from that there's nothing as far as I recall.

Besides didn't Kabuto claim that he was closer to the sage than any other character in the war? He doesn't have any Senju- or Uchiha blood running in his veins.

Hizuren is the strongest.
Best Shinobi
His level of power is incomprehensible to most, like that of the Sage's


EDIT: Damnit Aura.

Man...I wish I could get mangareader working.

I still love you DP. <3

Originally posted by Nephthys
How would Hiruzan beat Madara?

Or worse, a Madara in control of the Kyuubi?
I don't know. The same way he blew off Hashirama's leg?

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Man...I wish I could get mangareader working.

I still love you DP. <3

What browser do you use?

D'aww.

It's funny, Hiruzen's techs are not really superior to that of the current Kages, with the exception of Dead Demon Seal. Then again, that fight did have Tobirama being wanked, only for Mei and random mooks to repeat his feats. haermm

Originally posted by Astner
I don't know. The same way he blew off Hashirama's leg?

Explosive Tags > Kyuubi?

Sai could beat Madara w/ Kyuubi then.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
http://www.mangadata.com/manga/naruto/576/english/15/

"People called him the strongest shinobi."
Then a generation later Hizuren was referred to as the strongest in history.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
http://www.mangadata.com/manga/naruto/575/english/3/

"Fairy Tale just like the Rikudo Senin."
You indicated a genetical connection.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
In that he discovered that the Rinnegan evolves from the sharingan.
This was never explained.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Perhaps if you're willing to take the statements of him being so good at face value. I am not. Based solely on the moves Madara is using from Hashirama's moveset, Hashirama is the strongest Hokage. As for fights, Hashirama has a better feat than "beating" two kage level ninja, in that he stopped Madara and Kurama. Hiruzen was unable to handle the Kyuubi when it attacked the village and was waiting for Minato(who doesn't exactly have the most large scaled jutsu) to come and take care of it.
Hizuren only used three techniques in the battle against Hashirama, Tobirama, and Orochimaru. Four if you count the summoning of Enma.

The fact that Hizuren defeated both of the previous kage after they were restored to their true forms should speak for itself. He already defeated Hashirama.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Explosive Tags > Kyuubi?

Sai could beat Madara w/ Kyuubi then.
No, but it would blow off Madara's leg.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
What browser do you use?

D'aww.

It's funny, Hiruzen's techs are not really superior to that of the current Kages, with the exception of Dead Demon Seal. Then again, that fight did have Tobirama being wanked, only for Mei and random mooks to repeat his feats. haermm


Firefox.

Tobirama is the weakest hokage in the series lol.

Originally posted by Astner
Then a generation later Hizuren was referred to as the strongest in history.

Why is he the strongest?


Originally posted by Astner
You indicated a genetical connection.

"Likened: the act of comparing similarities."

Originally posted by Astner
This was never explained.

But can be inferred based on this.


Originally posted by Astner
Hizuren only used three techniques in the battle against Hashirama, Tobirama, and Orochimaru. Four if you count the summoning of Enma.

I'm aware. Is one of the main reasons why he is unimpressive.

Originally posted by Astner
The fact that Hizuren defeated both of the previous kage after they were restored to their true forms should speak for itself. He already defeated Hashirama.

It doesn't. Not any more. Before, I'd have agreed. Now that we have a glimpse of Hashirama's real powers, tell me what Hiruzen could do about the pollen? About the untraceable wood clones? About the medical ninjutsu that heals all injuries without needing a hand sign?

Which is more likely: That Hiruzen beat both Hashirama and Tobirama when both were not using their best techniques because he is just that awesome they were scared to or that Orochimaru held them back from using their best techs because he is a bit of an ******* that likes to play with his opponents before beating them? I say the latter, since he does that a lot and it makes more sense.

Originally posted by Astner


No, but it would blow off Madara's leg.

The Kyuubi would still crush Hiruzen though.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Firefox.

Tobirama is the weakest hokage in the series lol.

Upgrade, re-install, or switch to Safari.

Damn Kishi. I want a flashback arc with Tobirama as the star.

Astner, I think its pretty clear that none of us are buying it. We don't put as much stock in those quotes as you do and we don't consider that fight to be any form of proof that he's superior to them.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Upgrade, re-install, or switch to Safari.

Damn Kishi. I want a flashback arc with Tobirama as the star.

Tobirama would lose to KinGin though.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Tobirama would lose to KinGin though.

Obviously he was busy protecting the weak-ass 2nd Raikage.

Also, I lol'd a little at the likened/linked bit.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Obviously he was busy protecting the weak-ass 2nd Raikage.

Also, I lol'd a little at the likened/linked bit.

Inorite? What a pussy Raikage.

It was admittedly pretty funny.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Astner, I think its pretty clear that none of us are buying it. We don't put as much stock in those quotes as you do and we don't consider that fight to be any form of proof that he's superior to them.
I'm just going by what's canon. It might seem contra-intuitive at this point, but it is what's explained and executed. That's what the evidence points towards.

How can I debate with you when you can't accept that Hizuren is stronger than Hashirama based on that he actually defeated him in combat?

But he didn't. Suiciding isn't my idea of victory.

Originally posted by Nephthys
But he didn't. Suiciding isn't my idea of victory.
If not for the Edo Tensei, Hashirama would be bleeding to death after his leg was blown off. Or at the least losing tremendous amounts of chakra trying to regenerate it back, even though we've not seen a shinobi naturally regenerate any limbs.

The reason he sacrificed himself was because they were resurrected with Edo Tensei.

He also had to be conservative with his chakra due to being decrepit, whereas the two other kages were at their best.

And that's ignoring that he had to fight multiple opponents.

Who's to say Hashirama would have let him get an explosive tag on him if he wasn't an Edo Tensei-zombie?

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Inorite? What a pussy Raikage.

It was admittedly pretty funny.

He clearly hadn't met the 2nd Mizukage.

Now I'm laughing some more. >__>

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
He clearly hadn't met the 2nd Mizukage.

Now I'm laughing some more. >__>

The 2nd Mizukage wouldn't bother meeting such a noob.

Why?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Who's to say Hashirama would have let him get an explosive tag on him if he wasn't an Edo Tensei-zombie?
"Let?"

Who said he "let" him put an explosive tag there in the first place? See, this is what I mean. How can I debate with you when you when you're slithering around every argument with these unverifiable excuses?

Which is why I advised you not to debate with us.

Hiruzen fighted weak versions of them!!! Just re-read the manga and then compare Hashirama's power with that of when he was revived.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Not to mention we now have more of an idea on Hashirama's moveset. He seems not to have used things that would come in handy, like his clones or pollen(I really don't know of what Sarutobi could have done against something like this).

So using the fact that Sarutobi beat Hashirama in a fight to prove that he is stronger is kinda faulty, since we now know that Hashirama didn't use everything he had. It's like saying Sage ModeNaruto>Pain or saying Karui>Naruto.

We also know that Sarutobi Hiruzen didn't use everything he had, as well. We also know that Sarutobi was pitiful compared to his prime because he was an old man at this point (with much less chakra).

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Man...I wish I could get mangareader working.

I still love you DP. <3

Follow the advice I gave a few pages back in the Naruto thread.

Originally posted by dadudemon
We also know that Sarutobi Hiruzen didn't use everything he had, as well. We also know that Sarutobi was pitiful compared to his prime because he was an old man at this point (with much less chakra).

Yeah, I agee. That fight is impossible to quantify in power-levels.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Astner, I think its pretty clear that none of us are buying it. We don't put as much stock in those quotes as you do and we don't consider that fight to be any form of proof that he's superior to them.

I do. I support Astner's position because it is canon. I don't care about power-scaling or other idiocy from Kishimoto. You must set aside reason when dealing with fantasy. lol

Originally posted by Astner
If not for the Edo Tensei, Hashirama would be bleeding to death after his leg was blown off. Or at the least losing tremendous amounts of chakra trying to regenerate it back, even though we've not seen a shinobi naturally regenerate any limbs.

Nothing would be "natrual" about a human regenerating limbs. However, Oro did so.

Originally posted by dadudemon
We also know that Sarutobi Hiruzen didn't use everything he had, as well. We also know that Sarutobi was pitiful compared to his prime because he was an old man at this point (with much less chakra).

Except we know what Hashirama held back, or at least decided not to use. With Hiruzen, we have no clue except that apparently he mastered all of Konoha's techniques and didn't use them. Which doesn't make much sense, considering Kage Mane would have come in handy.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Except we know what Hashirama held back, or at least decided not to use. With Hiruzen, we have no clue except that apparently he mastered all of Konoha's techniques and didn't use them. Which doesn't make much sense, considering Kage Mane would have come in handy.

No, we do not know that Hashirama held back. He didn't use everything at his disposal. What I said still applies: Hiruzen did not use everything at his disposal, as well. We know for a fact that hundreds or thousands of other jutsus were available for use by Hiruzen.

So using the argument, "Hashirama didn't use everything he could have" is a two-way street. Hiruzen is superior to Hashirama. That's canon. It may not bode well with you but we have to deal with it.


Accept the fact the Kishimoto ****ed up and it all makes sense.

I can't wait for the next Databook that retcons the original status of Hiruzen.

Originally posted by NemeBro
I can't wait for the next Databook that retcons the original status of Hiruzen.

lol

Originally posted by dadudemon
I do. I support Astner's position because it is canon. I don't care about power-scaling or other idiocy from Kishimoto. You must set aside reason when dealing with fantasy. lol

Wrong. It isn't canon. Whats canon is that Hiruzen was 'said to be the strongest of all' and that he was 'honored as the strongest Hokage of all time,' not that he actually was the strongest Hokage.

We know of the moves(that Hiruzen doesn't have a counter for) that Hashirama didn't use in the fight. We don't know of the moves Hiruzen didn't use in the fight. Name one technique, in all of Konoha, that could stop the Pollen technique.

And yes, Kishi ****ed up by making Hashirama so freaking strong when he was relatively unimpressive in the beginning. Again, which makes more sense for in story purposes: Hashirama and Tobirama didn't use their best stuff because....well stuff I guess. OR...Hashirama and Tobirama didn't use their best stuff because Orochimaru plays with the people he fights, enjoys the battle before it ends and by extension held them back purposely. Which can be showed several times in the manga.

We can either go with the idea that Hiruzen is so much more ****ing powerful at age 69 than everyone else in the manga, even though he has relatively more lack luster feats, or we can go with the idea that Orochimaru was dicking around the whole fight like he usually does. I'm gonna go with the second.

Well Chiyo and Onoki took the old excuse from Hiruzen so it's both a combo of Kishi ****ing up power levels and Orochimaru dicking around in that fight.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Name one technique, in all of Konoha, that could stop the Pollen technique. knocking him out with a right hook before he uses the technique.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Wrong. It isn't canon. Whats canon is that Hiruzen was 'said to be the strongest of all' and that he was 'honored as the strongest Hokage of all time,' not that he actually was the strongest Hokage.

I believe the databook disagrees with you.

Originally posted by ichigo12
Hiruzen fighted weak versions of them!!! Just re-read the manga and then compare Hashirama's power with that of when he was revived.
No, they were restored to their true forms. Go back and reread the panel I posted.

Originally posted by Astner
No, they were restored to their true forms. Go back and reread the panel I posted.

Which is why I don't understand what people are on about.


Deal with the fact the Kishimoto ****ed it up. You guys are getting too caught up in the universe when the obvious reason fro the power-scaling problem is right in front of you: Kishimoto screwed up.

It doesn't matter. Based on the evidence Hizuren is more powerful, and unless we're given evidence in the future that would suggest anything else, he'll remain the most powerful kage.

Perhaps it's the mathematician in me speaking, but: "He doesn't really seem as powerful as;" doesn't really cut it when put up against hard evidence.

Originally posted by Astner
Perhaps it's the mathematician in me speaking, but: "He doesn't really seem as powerful as;" doesn't really cut it when put up against hard evidence.

For me, it's the super genius in me speaking that Hiruzen is very powerful.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I believe the databook disagrees with you.

Why would I care what you believe? estahuh


http://images.wikia.com/aceattorney/images/4/4e/Klavier_Gavin_Objection_OA.png

Post proof of your claim or drop it!

Well... The databook does say that Neph.

The databook also says you are a cool person. That is proof of its unreliability. uhuh

OMG, The figth between the Kages was at the beginning of the series ad Kishi didn't even planned to put Hasirama on screen. Proofs of the beginning is bullshit (sorry for this word). Give me a proof that is near were the manga currently is, and then I will accept it.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Well... The databook does say that Neph.

Are you people allergic to quotes? I've never read or seen the databook so I'd like to see proof rather than take your words on it.

Unless you mean the quotes Astener posted a few pages ago which I have already dealt with.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
The databook also says you are a cool person. That is proof of its unreliability. uhuh




FUUUUUUUUU!

Originally posted by ichigo12
OMG, The figth between the Kages was at the beginning of the series ad Kishi didn't even planned to put Hasirama on screen. Proofs of the beginning is bullshit (sorry for this word). Give me a proof that is near were the manga currently is, and then I will accept it.


Dude, you never have to apologize for your language. Just don't try to bypass the censor and it will take care of your naughty words that are not acceptable.


Lemme try:

****

****

*******

*****

******

****er

****ing

****


Yup, the censor works.



You're fine.


Originally posted by Nephthys
Are you people allergic to quotes? I've never read or seen the databook so I'd like to see proof rather than take your words on it.

Unless you mean the quotes Astener posted a few pages ago which I have already dealt with.


Come on, now. You have google and it works. This isn't science and it isn't philosophy: you have the internet and awesome search engines. Just use those instead of asking for us to spend 30 minutes google searching and reading for you. Most of us did that already.

But, to be fair, I will do the legwork for you:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=naruto+databook+%231


Click the second link and enjoy.


I feel very dirty now that I did that. I feel used. I need to take a shower. weep

I feel like if you're going to use a source to back up your assertion, it's the decent thing to provide that source for cross-examination. Your opponent shouldn't have to go about helping you form your own argument.

Well the Hiruzen stuff I found says



While the one I found for Hashirama called him the "Pinnacle of Shinobi."

Granted, I was under a time limit and the second link was asking about the third databook(unless you meant sub-link, which was a discussion thread for IV databook). But the only Kage I found databook 1 translations for was Minato(which was kinda hilarious in its own right).

All the nine Jinjurikis and their tailed beasts inside.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Come on, now. You have google and it works. This isn't science and it isn't philosophy: you have the internet and awesome search engines. Just use those instead of asking for us to spend 30 minutes google searching and reading for you. Most of us did that already.

But, to be fair, I will do the legwork for you:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=naruto+databook+%231


Click the second link and enjoy.


I feel very dirty now that I did that. I feel used. I need to take a shower. weep

Blax is right, I'm not going to provide your proof for you. Neither will I be condescended to by a man too lazy and incompetent to back up his arguments. If you claim that a source supports your case then provide it or shut up.

Turns out the info I got was Databook 3. Here is, apparently, the translations for databook 2 info concerning Hiruzen and all the info I found concerning him in the first databook can be found here.

Here is the databook 1 info for Hashirama and here is his databook 2 info(that I could find. And I'll even give all the databook 3 info I could find here.

Effort my dear friends can go a long way.

Why is it that Hashirama's information makes a point of praising and hyping his strength in battle, while Sarutobi's is more about him being a totally cool old dude?

Maybe cuz Sarutobi just wasn't as strong as people think he is. http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-smug.gif

Dunno. What I do know is that Hiruzen was pretty freaking awesome. Hobby: Flirting with young women. Freaking bawss.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Blax is right, I'm not going to provide your proof for you. Neither will I be condescended to by a man too lazy and incompetent to back up his arguments. If you claim that a source supports your case then provide it or shut up.

That's not providing proof for me. That's you simply familiarizing yourself with the canon universe.

Nor will I be condescended to by a lazy man too incompetent to research the topic at hand. If you claim to be desirous of proof, find it yourself.

Until then, suck it.


My favorite is when someone on the internet deMANDS proof of anything. That's just a new way of trolling.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Why is it that Hashirama's information makes a point of praising and hyping his strength in battle, while Sarutobi's is more about him being a totally cool old dude?

Probably because Sarutobi's big accomplishments seems to be running the village for so long.

Also, while I'm sure the others were pretty smart, Sarutobi was the actual leader for two whole Shinobi world wars and the tail end of the first. So it's his leadership that's super famous.


Being the 'professor,' I'd assume if you got all five Kage together, he should be the one actually in charge making plans, while Hashirama would merely be at the front.

Originally posted by dadudemon
That's not providing proof for me. That's you simply familiarizing yourself with the canon universe.

Nor will I be condescended to by a lazy man too incompetent to research the topic at hand. If you claim to be desirous of proof, find it yourself.

Until then, suck it.


My favorite is when someone on the internet deMANDS proof of anything. That's just a new way of trolling. I'll MAND you mother****er.

Originally posted by dadudemon
That's not providing proof for me. That's you simply familiarizing yourself with the canon universe.

Nor will I be condescended to by a lazy man too incompetent to research the topic at hand. If you claim to be desirous of proof, find it yourself.

Until then, suck it.


My favorite is when someone on the internet deMANDS proof of anything. That's just a new way of trolling.

Yes, that is exactly what it is. You said that the databook says he's the strongest Hokage and then failed to provide the quote to back it up. You expect me to provide it for you? Good joke, but no dice. Its pretty clear to me that no such quote actually exists and you're once again trolling a thread for your amusement and wasting my time.

In which case, my point stands uncontested. There is nothing that states that Sarutobi was the strongest Hokage. Therefore it stands to reason that he was not.

How is it a 'new way of trolling?' Rofl, providing evidence for your claim is the most basic part of a debate. If you don't even know that then why did you even try to take me on?

Well there isn't nothing strictly Neph. Iruka did say that people considered him the strongest of the Hokage and Kabuto did say he was the strongest of the current 5 Kage. However, both of these statements seemed based on hearsay, rather than strict fact.

Indeed. He was probably very powerful in his youth, but we don't actually know anything about him at that age so thats just speculation and a few opinions.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Well there isn't nothing strictly Neph. Iruka did say that people considered him the strongest of the Hokage and Kabuto did say he was the strongest of the current 5 Kage. However, both of these statements seemed based on hearsay, rather than strict fact.

Stronger than Onoki then?

Still much weaker than Madara, never mind Hashirama. awesome

I wouldn't even say stronger than Onoki. I think Kabuto was just trying to make Orochimaru feel better. I have no doubt that Hiruzen was strong but Onoki is a very high standard, being older than Hiruzen and having better feats.

Also, if we go by the data book, Tsunade was a "better" ninja than Old Sarutobi.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yes, that is exactly what it is. You said that the databook says he's the strongest Hokage and then failed to provide the quote to back it up. You expect me to provide it for you? Good joke, but no dice. Its pretty clear to me that no such quote actually exists and you're once again trolling a thread for your amusement and wasting my time.

In which case, my point stands uncontested. There is nothing that states that Sarutobi was the strongest Hokage. Therefore it stands to reason that he was not.

How is it a 'new way of trolling?' Rofl, providing evidence for your claim is the most basic part of a debate. If you don't even know that then why did you even try to take me on?

No, I don't expect you to provide it for me. I don't care if you look it up or not. It doesn't matter. But you cross the line into demanding we do something for you. AA was nicer about it than I was, of course (because he's not as big of a douche as I am) but there's plenty of sources for you to have looked up, yourself. It's no okay to demand someone do something.


Pages 117 and 265, first databook, is what you're interested in. BTW, I downloaded it. It took me a massive 5 minutes to find it and download it. Yet, you accuse me of being lazy.

I am lazy. Lazy as ****. But it just seems like something the philosophical laymen do on the internet these days: deMAND proooofffsfsfssfs of something they could easily look up. I think it's trolling and a b**** ass thing to do. It would be different if you demanded proof of a study I had just conducted and it was not yet published in a medical/psychology journal. But this is the Naruto databooks in a sub-forum dedicated to manga and anime, in a thread dedicated to Naruto. Go ahead, demand away.


Lemme go step into a Dragonball fan thread and deMAND they show me proof that the original statement from Vegeta's scouter showed 8000 PL. I DEMAND IT!


Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
I wouldn't even say stronger than Onoki. I think Kabuto was just trying to make Orochimaru feel better. I have no doubt that Hiruzen was strong but Onoki is a very high standard, being older than Hiruzen and having better feats.

Also, if we go by the data book, Tsunade was a "better" ninja than Old Sarutobi.

Better all-around ninja, for sure. She has more stamina and speed, iirc. That was Hiruzen's weak spot and why he couldn't just roll over Oro.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Lemme go step into a Dragonball fan thread and deMAND they show me proof that the original statement from Vegeta's scouter showed 8000 PL. I DEMAND IT! I could scan my copy of the official translation of the manga I guess.

Originally posted by NemeBro
I could scan my copy of the official translation of the manga I guess.

I...uh...


facepalm



No.


You just pulled a dadudemon by taking a symbolic thought and making it literal.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
I wouldn't even say stronger than Onoki. I think Kabuto was just trying to make Orochimaru feel better. I have no doubt that Hiruzen was strong but Onoki is a very high standard, being older than Hiruzen and having better feats.

Mind you, even if Onoki is stronger in raw power, I could see the very clever Hiruzen winning a fight, especially when young.

Originally posted by Q99
Mind you, even if Onoki is stronger in raw power, I could see the very clever Hiruzen winning a fight, especially when young.

That's my general opinion, as well. If he was said to be the strongest, he was the strongest.



But I think the fans should ask Kishimoto to clear up the power-creep problem he wrote in. There's plenty of things we could use to justify that there was no power creep. But Kishimoto needs to explain things, himself.

I have the Official Character Data Book an this is what it says of Sarutobi Hiruzen:

''In the history of Konoha, no Hokage is as beloved by the people as Hiruzen. Not only beacuse of his abilities in ninjustu, which earned him the nickname ''Professor,'' but for his almost paternal love for the village. This was so even toward the Uchiha clan, which planned the revolt...''

That is, if you want information of another character or an especific justu feel free to tell me .

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
I wouldn't even say stronger than Onoki. I think Kabuto was just trying to make Orochimaru feel better. I have no doubt that Hiruzen was strong but Onoki is a very high standard, being older than Hiruzen and having better feats.

Also, if we go by the data book, Tsunade was a "better" ninja than Old Sarutobi.

Onoki has Dust-Release, but that doesn't mean Hiruzen could not beat him in a straight fight.

Still would mean that he's < Hashirama though. awesome

Tsunade being > Old Hiruzen, I do not doubt. vin
Also, the Databooks are crap.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Nah. I said "us", not "me". You should probably leave the internet pop-psych out of discussions.

And your initial post was fine. It was the subsequent posts that indicated you were definitely serious. Like this ---->

I don't know what you're talking about.

Yes, because you made it serious when you started to talk down to me.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Nah, it's not the first time you have done that. It was something negative I noticed about your posting style that I figured I would point out. You know, just like you do to any other poster?

Thank you for the thought. But I don't think there'll be a need for you to do that in the future.

Originally posted by dadudemon
WinRAR is free. So is 7-zip. Both are better than Winzip.


Now what? estahuh

Now I inform you that the link you provided doesn't have a translated version. So I just downloaded a book I can't read.

Originally posted by dadudemon
And, no, I will not provide anything for you: I won't even upload the pages I just referenced for you. But I am looking at 264 and 265 right now. 1234 So could you just stop with this demand shit?

No. No-one else but you seems to be able to find this supposed proof that you're reading, and since its central to this discussion it would be pretty stupid not to provide it, if it does exist.

In future, please bare in mind that I'm going to want you to be able to actually prove your assertions when you make them. It'll save us another squabble like this one.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yes, because you made it serious when you started to talk down to me.

Awww cry

I sowwy. That was not my intentions, dude.

My intention was not to talk down to you, I was talking about how bullshit it was for you to make demands when you could easily find it yourself.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Thank you the thought. But I don't think there'll be a need for you to do that in the future.

"Yeah, man, that's just like...your opinion."


Originally posted by Nephthys
Now I inform you that the link you provided doesn't have a translated version. So I just downloaded a book I can't read.

*groans*

Man...just....










Originally posted by Nephthys
No. No-one else but you seems to be able to find this supposed proof that you're reading, and since its central to this discussion it would be pretty stupid not to provide it, if it does exist.

Dude, did you pray about it, yet? haermm2



















































































haermm2

Originally posted by Nephthys
In future, please bare in mind that I'm going to want you to be able to actually prove your assertions when you make them. It'll save us another squabble like this one.

I don't consider this a squabble. More like I was "bleeeeeh" with another one of your tactics.


Hey, you've called me out for douchy things in the past. Don't see why it can't be a two-way street.

Btw, I honestly rate Hashirama as the strongest, Sarutobi as the smartest.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Awww cry

I sowwy. That was not my intentions, dude.

My intention was not to talk down to you, I was talking about how bullshit it was for you to make demands when you could easily find it yourself.



"Yeah, man, that's just like...your opinion."




*groans*

Man...just....












Dude, did you pray about it, yet? haermm2



















































































haermm2



I don't consider this a squabble. More like I was "bleeeeeh" with another one of your tactics.


Hey, you've called me out for douchy things in the past. Don't see why it can't be a two-way street.


DdBbzqcA4nc

(Also the actual line is 'yeah, well, y'know thats just like, your opinion man'. Its seems that even when you do deign to quote, you **** it up.)

Has anyone who isn't an utter prick found the translation he's talking about? If not then I think the idea that Sarutobi is the strongest by way of 'canon' is pretty much dead.

Originally posted by Q99
Btw, I honestly rate Hashirama as the strongest, Sarutobi as the smartest.

I can agree to that.

Originally posted by Nephthys
DdBbzqcA4nc

(Also the actual line is 'yeah, well, y'know thats just like, your opinion man'. Its seems that even when you do deign to quote, you **** it up.)

Has anyone who isn't an utter prick found the translation he's talking about? If not then I think the idea that Sarutobi is the strongest by way of 'canon' is pretty much dead.

pWdd6_ZxX8c

It think I did really well for having seen the movie 1.5 times. But thanks for your feedback.


And I would like to correct another thing: I am not an utter prick: I said sorry and even indicated I cried with a smilie face (I didn't really cry...but I was trying to show remorse).


And deal with Sarutobi being the strongest and move on. You'll be fine.

I assumed that you were being sarcastic. Apologies if you were not, though you're still being irritatingly stubborn about this.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I assumed that you were being sarcastic. Apologies if you were not, though you're still being irritatingly stubborn about this.

Deep down...you know you like...love me, man. hug


But...why do you do that brony stuff? Is it for humor or are you really a brony? If you are a brony, that's okay...but you don't seem the brony type.

Yeah, I'm a brony. Atm, I'm listening to this song to cheer up after this argument. Maybe its because we're always arguing that I don't seem that way.

Originally posted by Q99
Btw, I honestly rate Hashirama as the strongest, Sarutobi as the smartest.

I concur. Even Minato probably wasn't as smart as Sarutobi if that whole "mastered all the Konoha techs" is legit.


Minato is the fastest.
Hashirama is the most powerful.
Hiruzen is the smartest.
Tsunade is the strongest.
Tobirama is...the...wettest I guess.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Tobirama is...the...wettest I guess.

Giggidy.

Tobirama is the random one because he has a great variety of jutsus like elemental ninjustus, a great taijustu and can summon the dead (Edo Tensei, he created it).

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
I concur. Even Minato probably wasn't as smart as Sarutobi if that whole "mastered all the Konoha techs" is legit.


Minato is the fastest.
Hashirama is the most powerful.
Hiruzen is the smartest.
Tsunade is the strongest.
Tobirama is...the...Jack of all Trades I guess.

Fixed it for you, you biatch. estahuh

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
I concur. Even Minato probably wasn't as smart as Sarutobi if that whole "mastered all the Konoha techs" is legit.


Minato is the fastest.
Hashirama is the most powerful.
Hiruzen is the smartest.
Tsunade is the strongest.
Tobirama is...the...wettest I guess.

I'd rank them like this:




Here's a spreadsheet (easier):

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z238/dadudemon/th_FiveHokagesRank.png

Yes, I knew it, Minato is the best!!!! Wohooo (Im a total fan of Minato, ).

As is he, as you can tell.

If I had to rank them overall....

Hashirama
Minato
Hiruzen
Tsunade
Tobirama

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
As is he, as you can tell.

If I had to rank them overall....

Hashirama
Minato
Hiruzen
Tsunade
Tobirama

Tobirama invented crazy shit, mang! He could very well have been almost as good as Minato at being a superfast assassin.

He also lost to Kin and Gin before being killed by 20 ninja(which makes me wonder how good his space time tech could be).